#indiewebcamp 2015-03-18

2015-03-18 UTC
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bret im pretty sure the podcast app is the quickest and easiest programatic way to get audio onto a phone.
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bret from any source
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pdurbin bret: sounds right
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acegiak bret: for my podcasts I subscribe to them in whisperfollow and then when I want to listen to episodes of a specific cast I search whisperfollow for that podcast and it embeds the audio with an html5 audio tag
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@pypi_updates went 0.0.7: Tools for implementing a webmention enpoint. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/went/0.0.7 (twitter.com/_/status/577991306137436160)
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pdurbin what is whisperflow?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "whisperflow" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=whisperflow&summary=prompted+by+pdurbin+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-17%2Fline%2F1426639064271
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kylewm what is whisperfollow?
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Loqi WhisperFollow is a WordPress based social reader create by acegiak that currently supports H-Entry, RSS, Atom and PubSubHubbub https://indiewebcamp.com/Whisperfollow
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kylewm whisperflow is /whisperfollow
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loqi.me created /whisperflow (+26) "prompted by pdurbin https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-17/line/1426639064271 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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pdurbin kylewm: thanks!
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kylewm.com edited /whisperflow (+0) "Redirected page to [[Whisperfollow]]" (view diff)
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acegiak man I need to update that page
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acegiak pdurbin: this gives a better overview of what it currently looks like: http://acegiak.net/2015/02/18/updated-walkthrough-of-my-indieweb-readerresponse-ux/
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GWG Whisperfollow I get. Whisperflow sounds like a different sort of product
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@pypi_updates went 0.0.8: Tools for implementing a webmention enpoint. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/went/0.0.8 (twitter.com/_/status/577996339260338176)
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@artwisanggeni #python went 0.0.8: Tools for implementing a webmention enpoint. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/went/0.0.8 (twitter.com/_/status/577996505090396161)
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pdurbin acegiak: nice
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GWG acegiak: Can I pick your brain?
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acegiak gwg: always
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GWG acegiak: In order to make check-ins work, which is one of the ideas I'm exploring for IWC Cambridge as something I might work on...I'm revisiting Simple Location.
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acegiak cool!
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GWG It was that plugin I started to add location data to posts.
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acegiak yeah I remember
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GWG I've started fiddling with it again, and I figured...if I add location data to a page, as opposed to a post...that can be a venue
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GWG Does that make sense?
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acegiak ?
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acegiak not initially?
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acegiak talk me through the thinking
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GWG I'm saying, as opposed to create a venue post type.
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GWG That if I'm routinely checking into the same place, create a page for it on my site.
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /Webmention (+435) "added myself to webmention implementations" (view diff)
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acegiak ah ok
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GWG Indieweb Venues are self-hosted
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acegiak oh? ok cool. can you show me an example elsewhere so I can see how they display it?
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/venue
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GWG https://waterpigs.co.uk/places/pizzaria-formula-1/
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GWG https://kylewm.com/venues/mozilla-sf-san-francisco-california
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kylewm love barnaby's mini-review. i'm going to have to add that to mine
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GWG kylewm: So do I.
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GWG That is what gave me the idea of making it a page. Which is the non-time-based element on a WordPress site
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acegiak back sorry
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GWG acegiak: Your thoughts? You are the one who talked me out of custom post types, remember, into a single taxonomy
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acegiak pros: pages are for anachron content so it makes sense for a venue
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GWG Note...venue not required
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acegiak cons: pages don't have any default classification system like categories or tags
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GWG acegiak: That is not necessarily true.
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acegiak ?
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GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/register_taxonomy_for_object_type
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GWG You can turn on tags
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acegiak GWG: the default behaviour of wordpress doesn't include categories or tags
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acegiak we can make it do it in the plugin
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GWG acegiak: Agreed. But it can be optionally included
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GWG Is it better to do that, or a CPT?
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GWG I think it is fine as a page adjustment.
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acegiak can a page have geo field like posts?
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GWG acegiak: I've already done that in the latest version. Just a better of setting the post type. Remember, page is a post.
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acegiak cool
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GWG acegiak: So, reason not to try it that way?
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acegiak I think the only other thing I would do is have a parent page
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acegiak all sounds good
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /Jekmentions (+1690) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>[http://jekmentions.alhur.es/ Jekmentions]</dfn>''' is a service that works as webmention endpoint and saves the received webmentions in a GitHub repository. =..."" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /Jekyll (+203) "/* Related Tools */" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: My plan is that it will be a standalone plugin and the check-in function in Post Kinds will just not show up unless it is activated.
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acegiak yeah good plan
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /jekmentions (+25) "Redirected page to [[Jekmentions]]" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /Jekmentions (+117) (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /User:Fiatjaf.alhur.es (+18) "/* projects */" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /Template:fiatjaf (+122) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline|http://webvatar.com/fiatjaf.alhur.es}} [[User:fiatjaf.alhur.es|Giovanni T. Parra]]</span>"" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /Jekyll (+60) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks “You really are better off with a dozen really good pages than a hundred mediocre ones.” @chuq http://www.chuqui.com/2015/03/the-future-of-blogging-is-blogging/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/578012422071451648)
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@chuq @kevinmarks thanks, indieweb gets a nod in the followup piece, FWIW. really helped shape my views. (twitter.com/_/status/578012692130111488)
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@kevinmarks @chuq that's good to hear your site is a classic indieweb example (twitter.com/_/status/578013157425164288)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth () "(-907) /* OpenID support */ delete this section since it was on github for the indieauth.com project, not the indieauth spec" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+73) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+21) "/* Details */" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /upcoming.org (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[Upcoming]] to [[Upcoming.org]] over redirect: It's back in at least a splash / public archives form, and in active open source development" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /upcoming.org (+4) "r to new page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Upcoming.org (+127) "open source of upcoming-www" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Upcoming.org (+31) "p-summary" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /upcoming (+4) "r update" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+1141) "/* checking target validity */ expand to not restrict validity to your own site's URLs" (view diff)
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tantek what is followings?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "followings" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=followings&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-17%2Fline%2F1426648941266
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tantek what is following?
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Loqi To follow is the concept of establishing a digital relationship to another person or entity so that you can receive updates from them over a given social media channel https://indiewebcamp.com/following
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tantek followings is /following
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loqi.me created /followings (+22) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-17/line/1426648941266 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu wait Loqi can do that now!
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu this indiewebcamp wiki+robot combo is almost sentient
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Loqi [bridgy] Randall Leeds RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge (https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10100678820689701)
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aaronpk tantek: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/waxpancake/the-return-of-upcomingorg/posts/1167812
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aaronparecki.com created /how-to-push (+52) "r" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'Just launched PuSH 0.4 support for Monocle! If you want to see realtime feed updates in Monocle or Woodwind, check out this guide to using P...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push (https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/03/17/5/monocle)
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aaronparecki.com edited /friendly (+86) "/* Be a good POSSE destination */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+1655) "/* Source Code */ Feature Requests, Followings & Location Information, cite Upcoming KS Project Update #11" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+287) "/* The IndieAuth API */ clarify that indieauth.com != IndieAuth the protocol" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (-179) "/* Source Code */" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: How does your site distinguish between liked "a post" and just liked?
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@rhiaro Achievement unlocked for this evening: super easy webmention endpoint up thanks to webmention.io :D #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/578048459342663681)
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@rhiaro In other news, going for 6am run due to #indieweb peer pressure. If I tweet this now, I can't back out in the morning. G'night. (twitter.com/_/status/578052304936402944)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10203936873885430 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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kylewm GWG: "a post on example.com" is just what it uses if a post doesn't have a proper title
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electronicmaji Klopp: "We're facing the greatest challenge there is in football: To play against an Italian team that need only a draw." (twitter.com)
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tantek ??
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KartikPrabhu thanks electronicmaji are you here to just post off-topic things?
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kylewm i think electronicmaji is a bot... it was around before posting copy pasta from reddit
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snarfed aaronpk: just fyi, looking at monocle, the yellow twitter icons link to unrelated other people's tweets
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electronicmaji lol
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electronicmaji i am the top bot
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KartikPrabhu tantek: see DM
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tantek have kicked and banned "electronicmaji" accordingly.
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tantek.com edited /like (+112) "/* markup for hypertext design */ markup of times should include timezone explicitly" (view diff)
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fkooman aaronpk: indieauth.com:
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fkooman Unknown error retrieving https://tuxed.net:
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fkooman somtimes it works, most of the time not...
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fkooman Someone should add https://monocle.p3k.io/ to https://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth#Sites_that_support_distributed_IndieAuth :)
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cweiske fkooman, did you successfully log in?
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fkooman cweiske: it doesn't work anymore, it used to (sometimes)
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cweiske :)
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cweiske I found a bug and wait for aaronpk to merge the PR
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fkooman in retrieving HTTPS sites?
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cweiske no
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cweiske.de edited /distributed-indieauth (+41) "/* Sites that support distributed IndieAuth */" (view diff)
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cweiske response_type=code instead of id
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cweiske my auth server supports id only
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cweiske.de edited /Monocle (+38) (view diff)
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fkooman but that is for the authorization part?
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cweiske see http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-03-17%20switch%20to%20google.png
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cweiske erm
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cweiske wait, wrong
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cweiske there: http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-03-17%20monocle%20no%20micropub.png
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fkooman ;-)
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cweiske I have no auth endpoint, but monocle supports a "read mode"
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fkooman cweiske: ah yeah, I got the same error
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fkooman but it still works with IndieCert :)
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cweiske it's a warning only
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cweiske no error
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fkooman well, warning :)
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fkooman also, i am not a big fan of microformats/micropub :|
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cweiske microformats is ok, and I personally don't have a use for micropub now
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cweiske so my auth server doesn't support it
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cweiske what's your issue with microformats?
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fkooman cweiske: it is not JSON :-)
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fkooman cweiske: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 and this is kinda scary :)
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cweiske but marking up data directly in html is a good idea
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cweiske even if I still prefer atom feeds over h-feed
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cweiske for performance reasons
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fkooman i guess i prefer the simplicity of something guaranteed machine readable, the parser is super complex
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cweiske yep, that's true
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cweiske people in this channel believe that making it easy for humans is the way to go
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fkooman cweiske: ah, i like both easy for humans and machines :)
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pdurbin even Loqi?
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pdurbin Loqi is a person.
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petermolnar with insane amount of spare time and an incredible reaction time ;)
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prtksxna <3 Loqi
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Loqi gives prtksxna a massage
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prtksxna I…did not expect that.
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petermolnar :D
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fkooman Loqi: now i am jealous! :(
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Loqi who, me?
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fkooman turing test failed ;)
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petermolnar I wonder if you can reverse-fool the turing test, meaning as a human, on purpose, fail at it
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fkooman sure, you can just always "return 4" ;)
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fkooman !xkcd random
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petermolnar ok, but that is an obvious, instant fail
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petermolnar not a sophisticated fail :)
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pdurbin fist-bumps Loqi
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aaronpk fkooman: as far as consuming code is concerned, microformats2 can be treated as consuming JSON
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aaronpk When was the last time you implemented a JSON parser? ;-)
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pdurbin mattl: "If you’re interested in talking about making deployment easier for every-day users, please consider joining the conversation" http://mediagoblin.org/news/userops.html via http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2015-03-16#i_10289203 reminded me of https://github.com/mattl/indieweb-installer/blob/master/dump.md
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@LukasRosenstock @jimmy_wales There are alternative and ad-free networks like @AppDotNet and @elloworld and @joindiaspora and #indieweb but they too small. (twitter.com/_/status/578176587427876864)
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pdurbin see also https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-installer from http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-11#t1413043798113
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (+104) "adding known sponsors and food vendors. Need to confirm with Tim that he is with Reclaim Hosting" (view diff)
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Acidnerd GWG & others, anyone can explain to me where to put the profiles links when using wordpress implementation ?
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Acidnerd is it on the syndication links plugin? simply on the page defined as the "Home" or do I have to do this on the theme itself ?
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aaronpk good morning!
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cweiske hiho
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk tantek: it just occurred to me why the google hub may not have accepted your PuSH ping... you have no "self" specified!
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tantek darn
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Acidnerd does someone know how to answer my previous question above ?
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kylewm aaronpk: tantek: google hub is known to not work with non-rss resources. don't spin your wheels trying to make it work. it's on haxor's radar
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aaronpk oh
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tantek oh
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tantek kylewm could you edit how-to-push accordingly?
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tantek what is how-to-push?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
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cweiske.de edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+17) "link PubSubHubbub" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: it's on https://indiewebcamp.com/push#Hubs
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tantek so either I have to use rel=self or use a different hub?
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aaronpk sounds like google won't work at all with html feeds
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cweiske rel=self is required by the push 0.4 spec
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aaronpk so use superfeedr
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tantek cweiske: erroneously so
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tantek how do we fix push 0.4?
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aaronpk as far as I can tell there's no reason to specify rel=self
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tantek we should minimize publish requirements
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tantek because it is unnecessary to put rel=self in the simple common case
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cweiske tantek, I had ~6 issues and was told to report them to the github tracker
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kylewm.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+197) "/* Hubs */ add link to conversation with haxor" (view diff)
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cweiske https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/PubSubHubbub/issues
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tantek thanks cweiske
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kylewm tantek: PuSH 0.4 spec requires Link headers for hub and self (as opposed to <link> elements in the page)
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aaronpk no that's not true
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aaronpk https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#discovery
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aaronpk "In the absence of HTTP [RFC2616] Link headers, subscribers MAY fall back to other methods to discover the hub(s)..."
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aaronpk i believe superfeedr only looks at http headers? unless julien already fixed that
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cweiske aaronpk, but that's discovery by the subscriber
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aaronpk the hub doesn't need to know about those tags though right?
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cweiske 5.1.1. Subscription Parameter Details
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cweiske The topic URL MUST be the one advertised by the publisher in a Self Link Header during the discovery phase.
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aaronpk oh wow
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aaronpk that is bad
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cweiske this section specifically talks about link headers
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kylewm aaronpk: this is unequivocal " The HTTP [RFC2616] response from the publisher MUST include at least one Link Header [RFC5988] with rel=hub"
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aaronpk i want to file an issue against that then, since the header is not required for subscription discovery
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kylewm yeah I think that's reasonable
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tantek aaronpk could you file that issue and cc @tantek
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aaronpk will do
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aaronpk frankly i'm kind of disappointed by the 0.4 spec. they didn't concrete enough stuff up.
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aaronpk that was my intent with the /how-to-push page, to make it more specific
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kylewm anyway tantek if you want to use superfeedr right now, you must use Link headers... it does not support <link> tags yet (unless julien fixed that and didn't tell us)
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jonnybarnes yaaaay 😠 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/18/twitter-puts-trillions-tweets-for-sale-data-miners
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tantek kylewm sigh re: must use Link headers
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tantek so basically PuSH 0.4 has *one* *partial* implementation :(
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tantek s/implementation/hub implementation
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Loqi tantek meant to say: so basically PuSH 0.4 has *one* *partial* hub implementation :(
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aaronpk i think google's could be considered a partial implementation too?
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tantek no it doesn't have 0.4 at all
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tantek so no not partial
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tantek Google is 0.3
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aaronpk oh i thought it just did Atom for 0.4
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tantek how is that any different from 0.3?
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aaronpk http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/ "This hub conforms to the Pubsubhubbub 0.4 specification."
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tantek the whole point of 0.4 is non-atom/rss resources
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tantek so that's a claim that's false then
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tantek or rather
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tantek "conforms" instead of "implements"
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aaronpk it's easy to conform to specs that are very vague ;)
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tantek and have lots of optional things :(
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aaronpk i'd hate to make PuSH 0.5 but i'm really tempted to
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tantek aaronpk - do it
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aaronpk it'd basically be 0.4 with nothing optional
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tantek but only if you're committing to building a hub
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tantek that demonstrates it
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aaronpk imma go build a hub first
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aaronpk step one: pick a name and find a cute logo
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kylewm you could call it Bub :) http://images.superherostuff.com/image-buttonwolvbub-primary-shswatermark.jpg
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aaronpk lol
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kylewm or of course https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608048068308174549&pid=15.1&P=0
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kylewm (Lil Bub)
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kylewm woodwind should be rendering quite a bit faster now (150ms here), but still not up to monocle speeds!
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kylewm I can hear the cackles from the anti-databasers, as i profile and add index columns
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aaronpk monocle uses a DB too, shh ;)
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aaronpk easier to query
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aaronpk and none of it is primary content so if it all disappears the worst that happens is you lose your subscription list (which I want to solve by writing the subscription list to your micropub endpoint)
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kylewm phew :)
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aaronpk i have no idea why it's so fast, lol, other than I did add indexes where I needed them
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bret gif post :] http://bret.io/2015/03/17/kilauea/
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gRegor` bret: Mount Doom?
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bret long exposures made it look that way
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jonnybarnes hello kylewm
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kylewm :)
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jonnybarnes yeah, so presumably are you looking at the co-ords provided by a browser then comparing that to you saved list of venues?
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kylewm yep exactly
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kylewm an alternative would be to use the foursquare api
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kylewm but i kind of like having my own little db of venues
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kylewm (i mean, you could do both)
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jonnybarnes I would want that
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jonnybarnes though I like what tommorris does, he links to the venues "entry" on openstreetmap if it has one
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aaronpk openstreetmap is just another silo like foursquare though. i plan to have venue permalinks on my own site that i actually control
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jonnybarnes i.e. https://tommorris.org/places/3
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: but surely openstreetmap is better than foursquare in terms of data a11y
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jonnybarnes i.e. its permissively licenced
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aaronpk sure, but in practice it's still a silo out of your control
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aaronpk for example venues could change or disappear
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gRegor` What is openstreetmap?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/OpenStreetMap
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gregorlove.com edited /OpenStreetMap (+38) "dfn, link" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes ok, so I don't actually know this, but is the data like version-controlled?
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gRegor` What is openstreetmap?
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Loqi OpenStreetMap is "a free, editable map of the whole world that is being built by volunteers largely from scratch and released with an open-content license" https://indiewebcamp.com/OpenStreetMap
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jonnybarnes or if someone deletes an entry is it gone forever
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aaronpk btw foursquare allows you to use the data as long as you link back https://developer.foursquare.com/overview/attribution
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jonnybarnes and can people easily edit foursquares database?
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jonnybarnes (I suppose easy is a relative term)
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aaronpk doesn't matter if you have your own venue database ;)
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aaronpk but yes all foursquare data comes from users, there are certain classes of users that have more edit power, like being able to make immediate changes rather than suggest changes
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gRegor` This is interesting, via adactio https://ohyeah.spum.org/about/
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aaronpk thinking about "Switchboard" as the name for the hub I want to build
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kylewm isn't "spum" something gross?
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kylewm watches too many UK TV shows
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KevinMarks Why not call your hub "spoke"
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aaronpk hmm
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gRegor` PuSH hub or?
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aaronpk gRegor`: yes
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KevinMarks Can we fork the google one and fix it?
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aaronpk there's not a lot there that's gonna be useful
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aaronpk cause there's not really a UI
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bret do hubs work together?
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aaronpk there is no reason hubs ever talk to each other
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aaronpk right now the state of PubSubHubbub 0.4 is there are two incomplete implementations of the spec, and no others as far as I know
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KevinMarks I thought they were supposed to be chainable
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bret what for?
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KevinMarks From what I remember, caching and ideas around permissioned content, which means hubs could selectively disclose
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KevinMarks Which is probably architecture astronomy
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@wholewheattoast Recommendations for #indieweb soundcloud-ish thing? (twitter.com/_/status/578240610538127360)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (+69) "catering all set" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: there is a Wordpress plugin that is a self-contained hub, PushPress I think
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aaronpk 0.4?
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kylewm no 0.3
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aaronpk i'm talking specifically about 0.4 since nothing else works with html feeds
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kylewm and I took a stab at figuring out what's wrong with Google's implementation, but it was more complex that i wanted to get into. lots of mapreduce...
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aaronpk oy
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KevinMarks Is that part coupled to the feed parsing?
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kylewm this is the bit that gave me the impression they never actually finished converting to 0.4 https://code.google.com/p/pubsubhubbub/source/browse/hub/main.py#3059
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aaronpk haha ya think?
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kylewm tries to parse with ATOM and RSS and then "# Just give up, since we can't parse it."
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kylewm maybe that was more why I was discouraged, as opposed to the mapreduce thing :p
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tantek points out expected death of that code google com link
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aaronpk presumably that got moved to github
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aaronpk and they're planning on serving redirects
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kylewm great point, and I don't see anyone jumping to fork this to github
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aaronpk probably because a lot of their own code is on there
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kylewm it's not on https://github.com/pubsubhubbub
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aaronpk #selfdogfood ftw
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kylewm https://github.com/google/pubsubhubbub is empty
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aaronpk maybe not imported yet?
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kylewm maybe
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kylewm (hopefully)
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gRegor` kylewm: Is Woodwind feed URL updating working? Seems to just reload the page and doesn't reflect the new URL.
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gRegor` On the "Feeds" page, individual "Update" button, not "Update all"
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kylewm gRegor`: which feed did you try updating?
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gRegor` On the same page I almost clicked "Update All" when trying to subscribe to a feed too, since it's just below the subscribe field. Maybe add a separator there (minor)
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kylewm yes I've definitely done that before
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kylewm good call
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gRegor` Updating http://werd.io to http://werd.io/content/all/
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aaronpk ooh good cal re: werd.io
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, when you did PuSH support, you didn't use the content correct? you just use the URL and repoll correct?
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kylewm gRegor`: oh wait, are you using Update to trigger a poll? or expecting it to save changes?
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kylewm that's an ambiguous term i guess
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gRegor` No
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gRegor` It appears that just werd.io wasn't showing all updates, so I decided to change the feed URL
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gRegor` Now I'm confused. :)
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aaronpk werd.io should have a link to werd.io/content/all/ somewhere
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aaronpk so it can be discovered from the home page
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kylewm it does have <link rel="feed"
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gRegor` It's in the filters dropdown
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kylewm oh god, just realized changing the feed url would change it for everyone who is subscribed to that feed
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aaronpk kylewm: ok that should be good enough, i'll make sure Monocle finds it then
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aaronpk kylewm: that's why I made my feed URLs non-editable ;)
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gRegor` Ha!
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kylewm (it used to be that unsubscribing from a feed would unsubscribe everyone)
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kylewm has made some mistakes
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aaronpk lol!
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gRegor` So to clarify, was I just mistaken that werd.io isn't "all content" by default? It looked like only articles in Woodwind.
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kylewm werd.io *is* just articles
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kylewm werd.io/content/all is what i subscribe to
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gRegor` Ok, that's what I thought. Cool.
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kylewm and you are probably better off creating a new subscription rather than updating an old one, until i fix that bug
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gRegor` Sure, np
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gRegor` Wait, now it's showing the updated URL. Heh
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aaronpk that may have been my fault :/
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kylewm I also had a very weird bug this morning with reply contexts... if it already has seen an entry for a particular permalink, it just associates them, rather than refetching it and generating a new reply-context entry
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kylewm and since i was subscribed to ben's atom feed for a while, it was using entries from his atom feed as the reply context for entries from his h-feed
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kylewm very strange
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gRegor` readers are hard, let's go shopping
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aaronpk bret: your webmention didn't work, check http/https links. i think that's a bug with my webmention form
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bret doh
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bret aaronpk: fixed
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bret sending again
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: sorry I didn't answer your question; you're right I ignore the content of pings from PuSH hubs
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aaronpk same
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ben_thatmustbeme so, I'm more wondering do we build off of PuSH as an example and optimize it (i.e. throw out sending data other than a webmention really)
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ben_thatmustbeme s/webmention/something else/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: so, I'm more wondering do we build off of PuSH as an example and optimize it (i.e. throw out sending data other than a something else really)
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ben_thatmustbeme but remove the content if in practice thats not found to be very useful
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: no content in the push ping is still within 0.4
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aaronpk so it basically is a webmention at that point
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aaronpk that's what makes it so easy to implement ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, my concern is that push 0.4 is such a mess, we modify the spec to our own end, trim all the cruff, and publish as "this is what we use"
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bret can some people rsvp no to https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015 ?
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aaronpk that's basically what I did here: http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: It's really not a mess, imho. agree with aaronpk that it's underspec'ed and I like his clarifications and improvements
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aaronpk i'm still on the fence about whether to re-publish it as 0.5
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kylewm the upside is that the spec is really small
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ben_thatmustbeme as i understand there are problems of licensing, so I don't know what we need to do to get around it
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kylewm hur?
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ben_thatmustbeme the smaller, the better
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kylewm "problems of licensing"?
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aaronpk the only benefit would be to clarify whether implementations are compatible
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ben_thatmustbeme google <-> w3c problems
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: correct, there are too many "optional" things, they need to be trimmed
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ben_thatmustbeme better to start from a bare-bones and then add optional things back again minorly
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kylewm did julien say the 0.4 spec was still open to improvements?
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kylewm lol this just came up in a search https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/07/28/1/
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kylewm that's one way to make your feeds realtime
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kylewm poll 20x / second
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aaronpk oh he replied, but that was before bridgy i think https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/361705734829899777
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@aaronpk @julien51 This is a bit excessive, don't you think? ;) https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/699c5fcfdb5a776b5d00 (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/07/28/1/) (twitter.com/_/status/361705734829899777)
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aaronpk kylewm: http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Monocle-20150318-142832.png :)
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aaronpk i actually go fetch entry permalinks to find comment count
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kylewm that's slick!
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aaronpk that was my #1 feature request for Woodwind
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kylewm lol
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aaronpk cause i kept clicking things just to see if there were responses
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gRegor` aaronpk: Did you get the 'no' RSVP you requested yet?
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aaronpk we've moved on now but feel free :)
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gRegor` Heh
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kylewm I keep reading Monocle and Mononoke
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aaronpk lol
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gRegor` http://werd.io/content/all/ still seems to be showing only articles in Woodwind. Maybe cached because of what I originally subscribed to?
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gRegor` I did unsubscribe / resubscribe
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kylewm ugly url en route, can you see http://reader.kylewm.com/?feed=687474703a2f2f776572642e696f2f636f6e74656e742f616c6c2f
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gRegor` Yep. Same link I have from the feeds page. Latest item showing for me is "Venture capital isn't evil" from 2 days ago.
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kylewm ok yes you're right it's still cached from the old feed
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kylewm that is kind of amazing tbh
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kylewm here's a workaround... change it back to werd.io,click save, then unsubscribe
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kylewm then subscribe to the url again
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gRegor` I can wait if it just takes a fresh polling.
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kylewm this would be better
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kylewm you'll get all the entries that i've already fetched
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kylewm this = doing the workaround instead of waiting for it to refetch
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gRegor` k
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gRegor` Except feed URL updating doesn't work?
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aaronpk tantek: kylewm: issue filed: https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/PubSubHubbub/issues/31
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gRegor` Wait. I'm slow today.
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kylewm it works if you click "Save"
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kylewm I suspect you were clicking "Update"?
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gRegor` Yeah. Don't mind me.
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kylewm no it's my fault
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gRegor` Update performs a fresh poll, right?
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kylewm realizing now that HTML tried to make me lay things out more sanely but I hacked around it to put all the buttons together
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kylewm correct
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gRegor` Cha-ching. I can see all of benwerd's posts now. Thanks!
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kylewm appreciates gRegor` patience and forgiveness :)
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aaronpk hey cool i can see them too!
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gRegor` Hehe, no worries. Can't be impatient with other people's code I'm not about to implement myself yet :)
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benwerd gRegor`: I apologize in advance
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gRegor` Ha! Can't be worse than my feed. Unless you like puns.
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benwerd I like puns a LOT.
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gRegor` kylewm: Perhaps "Unsubscribe" could be a red "X" with a javascript confirm dialog? And "Update" could be a refresh icon?
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gRegor` So just "Save" is a button
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kylewm ah yeah good idea
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aaronpk okay so I'm setting an expiration date on the session cookie to 30 days from now. why would I suddenly be logged out after lik 30 minutes?
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bret holy hell, why isnt there a decent flickr replacement yet
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bret it takes so long to upload to flicker
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KevinMarks_ google photos uploads all mine
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aaronpk my eye-fi card uploads to flickr
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KevinMarks_ which would have been good to know before I maxed the data plan in the UK
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aaronpk haha
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KevinMarks_ there is a wifi-only option
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KevinMarks_ I was wandering around london, taking snaps with my son, and my phone texted me saying I'd used up the data
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aaronpk tantek: wanna switch to superfeedr quick?
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tantek ok
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tantek too little info in the docs about that
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tantek like what superfeedr URL to use?
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aaronpk LIKING POSTS FROM A READER IS LIKE MAGIC
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tantek and do you have to signup on superfeedr?
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tantek do you need your own superfeedr hub URL
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bret nope
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tantek (examples make it look like you do)
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aaronpk hmm is that appropriate to add to /how-to-push?
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tantek or do I just use kylewm's superfeedr?
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kevinmarks.com edited /meme (+63) (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: without answering those questions the how-to is insufficient to implement
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aaronpk i guess my initial goal was to clarify the spec
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gRegor` LIKE MAGIC or LIKE-MAGIC?
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+34) "add p-summary" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /meme (+127) "in general vs in context of" (view diff)
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@andkjaer Video Blogging: How to Become a Video Personality >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=78702&utm_content=buffer16bab&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Michael Stelzner. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/578273666934394880)
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aaronpk bret: wait superfeedr doesn't require registration to publish to it?
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bret nope just put the hub in your atom feed and ping the hub when it updates
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aaronpk this page doesn't have any info about using it as a publisher https://pubsubhubbub.superfeedr.com
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aaronpk "the hub"? there are a bunch of superfeedr hub URLs
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aaronpk bret: also totally not doing this for Atom, but for HTML pages
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bret i have not tried that yet
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bret i wrote something about this way back when http://bret.io/2014/03/16/github-pages-pubsubhubbub-support-levels-up/
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aaronpk many of us have
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bret i want to but there was no reason too until recently ;)
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk okay you're *sure* you don't need to register with superfeedr? (I was not aware of that so I created an account when i started using it)
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kylewm I had assumed you could just ping https://pubsubhubbub.superfeedr.com/ without registering, but you're right it doesn't say so on that page
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aaronpk i sent a publish for example.com there, and it replied with 204, so maybe that is true
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aaronpk ah but subscribes don't work
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bret aaronpk: to publish with the public hub, you dont need to register afaict
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aaronpk unless the topic is registered
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bret i've never delt with subscriptions
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aaronpk i'm gonna try it with a new site
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aaronpk aha!
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aaronpk when I make a subscription request, superfeedr makes a GET request to the site to check for the hub/self tags
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aaronpk so it looks like registration is not required
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kylewm but I'm guessing that you couldn't use kylewm.superfeedr.com or withknown.superfeedr.com as a public hub right?
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aaronpk kylewm: i believe that is true, although superfeedr made a GET request anyway and then rejected it
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bret i think PuSH would really benefit from a bridgy style gui
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bret debugging it was hard
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aaronpk totally
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cweiske or having your own server that lets you peek into it
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aaronpk of course
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aaronpk not everyone wants to build a hub though
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bret i would put up with a one click deploy to free paas
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aaronpk good idea
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aaronpk does heroku support php?
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bret or like something simple like a go bin or `npm start`
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aaronpk yup https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/getting-started-with-php#introduction
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bret not sure
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gRegor` Wee, more Bridgy re-wm
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KevinMarks__ Heroku does support PHP, though it prefers postgres to MySQL
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mike-burns Don't we all.
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aaronpk hmm i'm using an ORM so that shouldn't be hard to switch
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aaronpk heroku isn't really one-click though
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aaronpk oh yes there is https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-button
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bret i though postgres was the thing everyone is hopping ship to from mysql?
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bret oh its an orm issue
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aaronpk i still use mysql a lot cause 1) the GUI tools are better and 2) i have a pretty old mysql DB with a ton of things on it that I don't want to have to rewrite all my random apps to use postgres
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bret i think the one click deploy makes it easy to get to know a piece of software. I can always host it on a real server if it actually turns out to be useuful
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snarfed gRegor`: are they not de-duping ok?
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snarfed hopefully uid and source url are the same?
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bret pgadmin likes to crash randomly
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snarfed (gRegor`: sorry, btw :/ )
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aaronpk pgadmin is an ugly beast
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gRegor` My de-duping may likely be broken
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snarfed ah
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gRegor` I don't use uid in my process. Just md5(source . target)
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bret gRegor`: good idea
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bret !
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bret hashing a few key fields
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gRegor` snarfed looking in logs for sample links to compare
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+624) "add more details on using hubs" (view diff)
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snarfed gRegor`: thanks! also which silo. fb now can occasionally cause actual dupes (different uid/source) due to https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350
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gRegor` FB
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gRegor` older: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/27301982/10100921482184384/731038886 newer: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/27301982/10100921482184384/10153069527768887
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snarfed yeah that's fb api 2.x :(
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snarfed first is global fb user id, second is app-scoped
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gRegor` It's odd, though. Newer has an original date of 2015-02-11 22:06:10, but was also just re-sent today, 2015-03-18 12:40:55
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snarfed sad
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snarfed fb doesn't give us timestamps for likes so we have to use 'now'
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gRegor` Right. Those are my received times.
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snarfed sorry :(
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gRegor` 'Newer' one was sent twice in recent months, and properly updated (didn't duplicate), so that's what seems odd
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gRegor` No worries
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+51) "add link to github issue on superfeedr" (view diff)
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@aaronpk @superfeedr awesome! I just added a clarifying note to the wiki, but will remove it when that's done! https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push#Link_to_your_PuSH_Hub (twitter.com/_/status/578283813266169856)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@superfeedr awesome! I just added a clarifying note to the wiki, but will remove it when that's done! https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push#L...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push#Link_to_your_PuSH_Hub (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/03/18/3/pubsubhubbub)
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gRegor` 'Older' bridgy link is 404 now, snarfed.
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snarfed yup, we can't use global user ids now w/2.x api
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cweiske aaronpk, could you merge my PR and deploy it to your monocle instance? I'd really like to see if that fixes login fo rme
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aaronpk oh! didn't see that.. one sec
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cweiske you actually wrote "that was fast" yesterday
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aaronpk oh right lol
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aaronpk it's busy over here
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gRegor` snarfed: The FB 'like' URLs don't chane though, right? I just need to update my algorithm to use the actual post's URL instead of the bridgy URL as 'source', in md5(source . target)
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snarfed gRegor`: the u-url? looking. if they do, it'd only be in the fragment
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gRegor` Correct, u-url
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gRegor` Yeah, the u-urls are the same in my parsed mf2 for those two.
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gRegor` Sweet. Easy fix.
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gRegor` It's still curious that this is the second time the fb2.x versions have been sent.
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snarfed gRegor`: yup, confirmed, no u-url change, fragment or otherwise
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@pierreozoux @LukasRosenstock @jimmy_wales @AppDotNet @elloworld @joindiaspora We are growing! And yes, join the #indieweb, we offer a path to exit! (twitter.com/_/status/578285673683234816)
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snarfed gRegor`: yeah this time was caused by https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/374 and 371
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cweiske snarfed++ for maintaining bridgy. awesome work, when I see those hundreds of bug reports.
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Loqi snarfed has 93 karma
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snarfed aww thanks cweiske!
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aaronpk snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 94 karma
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snarfed much appreciated
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snarfed always reminds me of how "scratch your own itch" really can work
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gRegor` Hmm, maybe not so simple on my end. Need to parse mf2 when receiving to get the 'actual' source URL. I'm processing async currently, so defeats the purpose somewhat.
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aaronpk yeah de-duping needs to happen async
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gRegor` My db structure presumes 1:1 received wm log <-> processed wm. Need to make that n:1
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gRegor` adds to list
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+127) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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kylewm gRegor`: did you just change the content/published/updated time on a bunch of your notes?
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gRegor` No? I sure hope not...
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kylewm huh, bunch of your posts just appeared in the top of woodwind, which usually means it thinks they were updated
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gRegor` I don't think I'm displaying dt-updated, even if it's set. dt-published dates look like they haven't changed for me.
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cweiske aaronpk, did you already deploy the changed indieauth-client-php?
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aaronpk cweiske: sorry no, multitasking in this mtg
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gRegor` I did just make a change to force my admin area to https, but that shouldn't have affecting anything with the feed
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aaronpk and i realized it was the library not monocle, so i have to republish and such
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kylewm gRegor`: figured it out
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kylewm gRegor`: you publish rel=syndications in your h-feed, that confuses the heck out of woodwind
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kylewm i have the same problem with adactio's feed
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gRegor` Ohh
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gRegor` I hadn't considered only publishing the syndication links on the permalink like you do
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kylewm !tell tantek: what happened here? two posts on the same permalink? http://tantek.com/2015/075/t3/hello-cambridge
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk kylewm: he deleted a post
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aaronpk oh! wow
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kylewm gRegor`: you can publish u-syndication on the h-feed, but rel-syndication is page scoped which causes problems
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gRegor` Oh!
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gRegor` I think I copied that from somewhere not fully understanding. So it should have u-syndication only and that fixes it?
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gRegor` Or is rel-syndication preferable on permalinks?
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gRegor` reads up on http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-syndication
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kylewm i publish rel="syndication" on permalinks, but i don't know if anyone uses it
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kylewm when it came up before, we talked about adding a feed-checker to indiewebify.me
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Loqi [mention] Barry Frost posted 'In Boston for some work and hacking stateside. It’s absolutely flipping freezing outside but so far enjoying my few days here. Already eaten...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge (https://barryfrost.com/2015/03/in-boston-for-some-work-http)
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gRegor` kylewm: Should be fixed now.
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gRegor` That was a lot easier than my de-dupe problems.
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-syndication (+55) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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GWG gRegor`: I just fixed this on my site. I use u-syndication on archive pages and rel-syndication on single pages.
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gRegor` Yep, that's what I've done too.
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elf-pavlik snarfed have you seen http://jsfiddle.net/9ZU8q/4/ (see also: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-linked-json/2013May/0027.html )
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153148279062020 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10152874723844773 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153174500693784 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#924038313400 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153195620149913 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10206573190671836 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10100493449834378 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153053905306355 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10152899178221998 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153478943260283 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153409376077345 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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aaronpk omg new next itch is making my site stop sending me push notifications on updated webmentions
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aaronpk It's my turn for the Bridgy storm
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gRegor` Haha
joshwnj, benwerd, yakker, j12t_, snarfed, lukebrooker and KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
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Loqi slack/kevinmarks: I made the meme by hand <https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/578321752423460864>
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kylewm KevinMarks: kind of a tiny venn diagram intersection of people who will get that joke (i.e. the best kind of joke)
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kylewm acegiak: the reply on the top of your site's h-feed seems to only havea reply-context, without a body?
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tantek kylewm: manual posting note authoring UI fail :(
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Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 2 hours, 49 minutes ago: what happened here? two posts on the same permalink? http://tantek.com/2015/075/t3/hello-cambridge http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-18/line/1426710083756
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@lowellmower @dissolve333 regrets I cannot make the IndieWebCamp tomorrow. Thank you for adding me! How can I get involved in the future? (twitter.com/_/status/578336758632435712)
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@dissolve333 @lowellmower the best way is on irc. #indiewebcamp on freenode (twitter.com/_/status/578337064774721536)
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