#indiewebcamp 2015-03-27
2015-03-27 UTC
# 
ben_thatmustbeme looks good to me tantek
# 
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 10 minutes ago: - wrote my answers to Boston Globe questions, please review #1 and #4 here: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-26/line/1427414090306
# ben_thatmustbeme cool
# ben_thatmustbeme if the article comes out i'll be sure to scan/photograph it
# Loqi PubSubHubbub (PuSH) is a notification-based protocol for publishing and subscribing to feeds/streams in real time https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH
# 
tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+73) "/* Tantek */ clarify started PuSH 0.4 notifications" (view diff)
# Loqi Swarm is an app by Foursquare focused on checkins and showing nearby friends https://indiewebcamp.com/Swarm
# tantek.com edited /Swarm (+561) "Advertising use of friends photos, see also, fix heading levels" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+71) "/* Organizers */ done - boston globe questions" (view diff)
# tantek.com moved /2015/Cambridge/demos to /2015/Cambridge/start-demos "need to distinguish on more than just capitalization"
# tantek.com moved /2015/Cambridge/Demos to /2015/Cambridge/hack-demos "disambiguate"
# tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (+404) "Post Camp To Do - session notes to wiki, demos to wiki (like wikis in past)" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu, danlyke_ and scor joined the channel
# tantek.com edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+260) "/* Photos */ photo from Benwerd" (view diff)
nloadholtes joined the channel
# tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-084-hwc-sf.jpg]]""
# tantek.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+70) "/* Photos */ add photo by EJ" (view diff)
nloadholtes joined the channel
# Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCamp favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Photos (https://twitter.com/t/status/578992359569928192)
j12t, Deledrius_, hidgw, yakker and e-lima joined the channel
# 
KartikPrabhu & should be valid separators fo query params no?
# 
kylewm KartikPrabhu: according to this, it seems like it has to be escapd even in urls http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4441594/w3c-markup-validator-ampersand-error
# KartikPrabhu weird
# KartikPrabhu so it seems all URLs have to encoded and decoded by mf2 parsers correctly?
# KartikPrabhu and somehow both mf2py and php-mf2 do it already!
j12t joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes i guess so
# 
@GlobalRevLive RT @t: #indieweb: “As writers, we don’t need companies like Medium to tell us how to use the web. Or define ... http://tantek.com/2015/083/t2/indieweb-writers-web (twitter.com/_/status/581356115390291968)
j12t, loic_m, icco, KevinMarks, Erkan_Yilmaz, friedcell, interactivist, csarven, Sebastien-L, eschnou, glennjones, elf-pavlik, hmans, scor and stream7 joined the channel
Erkan_Yilmaz, frzn, glennjones and scor joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
j12t joined the channel
tantek, e-lima, friedcell, alanpearce, Erkan_Yilmaz, danlyke_, j12t, torrorist, frzn, davemenninger, Acidnerd, nloadholtes, gRegor`, zachdonovan, chalettu, wolftune, scor and lillian joined the channel
# 
gRegor` Howdy, indieweb. Quiet day.
j12t and Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
# gRegor` yep
# ben_thatmustbeme been hard at work today
# ben_thatmustbeme but I got a lot done this week
# ben_thatmustbeme was working on person-tagging this mroning
# ben_thatmustbeme not yet. It seems pretty clean. hopefully i'll be testing it next week
# ben_thatmustbeme i got side tracked last night trying to fix some errors with comments
# ben_thatmustbeme updated to store all my "interactions" together
# ben_thatmustbeme rather than creating a new setup for tags, i merged all the duplicate code for tags, likes, reposts, mentions, comments into just "interactions" with a type specified on them
# ben_thatmustbeme so I have spent a lot of time with deduplication of code this week, but i should be able to add new functionality a lot faster after this
# ben_thatmustbeme is a "like" a "response"
# ben_thatmustbeme before i stored likes and replys seperately
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Kafka" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Kafka&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427477821112
# ben_thatmustbeme tries to remember where he stole the "interactions" terminology from
# 
tantek !tell bengo could you expand on what is Kafka on indiewebcamp.com/Kafka ? from https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/580923671746871296
# tantek see /interactions and /responses
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, how long ago was that? responses says "Note: the term interactions is being more frequently used now to refer to the full set of things people to do with / to a post. This page mostly captures historical debate."
# Loqi interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people do to and with others posts https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
# ben_thatmustbeme i feel like responses should not include reposts... questionable about likes
# ben_thatmustbeme a repost is in no way a response to the poster, its a share to their own followers
Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme also response implies a dialog, thus text, interactions does not
# ben_thatmustbeme gotta go back to work
# tantek ben_thatmustbeme: when you have a moment, would be great if you could copy/paste your preference and reasonings above into: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Alternatives
korayal, tilgovi, elima, dariusdunlap, benwerd, j12t, wolftune and alanpearce joined the channel
snarfed joined the channel
# @GlobalRevLive so whats yr angle? should probably put up a website . see https://indiewebcamp.com/ for ideas on publishing independently @ActivistNewsNet (twitter.com/_/status/581523890289143808)
Pierre-O, friedcell, davidmead, korayal, chalettu, GWG and interactivist joined the channel
Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
Erkan_Yilmaz and GWG joined the channel
tantek and zachdonovan joined the channel
# gRegor` On Tumblr, reposts typically show up on the original, "reblogged this"
# gRegor` So it seems like a light, pseudo-response
# gRegor` But I understand others might just consider that a /quotation
# gRegor` 100% quotation + comment
# gRegor` Ooh, now I want popcorn
wont_on joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme haha
# gRegor` Easy, Loqi
# ben_thatmustbeme so response is very different than even a like or tag
# ben_thatmustbeme well, like i guess it is, but I feel like a tag is not a response so much as an action
# gRegor` How are you using "tag" there? Tagging a person?
# ben_thatmustbeme response makes me feel like its a conversation, but a tag or like are not intended to be conversation
# ben_thatmustbeme tagging a person, or a category
# gRegor` Tagging a category?
# ben_thatmustbeme fair point tantek
# gRegor` 's brain hurts
# gRegor` Ooh, then you could put those activities in a stream
# gRegor` :)
# ben_thatmustbeme okay, lets formulate this another way, the way i see it "responses" can have a reply. But try to reply to someone's action of "liking" or "tagging (a person)" in FB
# ben_thatmustbeme or G+, or twitter
# ben_thatmustbeme or instagram
# gRegor` Heh, "I like your like of X"? Meta
# tantek likes snarfed's reasoning "you can respond to something in lots of ways, and not necessarily to anyone" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-27/line/1427483931982
# ben_thatmustbeme exactly, I was debating this while working on tag, and i realized I display likes and comments on my like posts... and I don't think that makes sense at all
# ben_thatmustbeme I'll probably remove it
# ben_thatmustbeme like and quote, and a reply to me, but NOT to snarfed
benwerd joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme its not intended for a conversation with snarfed. is a question of speaking direction
# ben_thatmustbeme if you cite someone you are not responding to them, you are using their content to share in another conversation
# ben_thatmustbeme correct, so from snafed's side, that isn't a response
# ben_thatmustbeme i think the real issue here is different definitions of "response".
# ben_thatmustbeme "response" can be just "reaction" which means any action that in any way references your post is a response
# ben_thatmustbeme another example would be a mention, same thing, if someone happens to mention a post of mine, i don't consider that in any way "responding" to my post
# ben_thatmustbeme i use response in the "correspond" way, not "reaction" way
# ben_thatmustbeme a like I could see either way
# ben_thatmustbeme because there is an implicit "i agree" sent back to the author
# ben_thatmustbeme i was using it as an example, but yes, there are a lot of implied meanings
# ben_thatmustbeme but it can be directed toward the conversation
Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme i don't think mentions really falls in to reactions either. the action you are reacting to may not be the content you are mentioning
# ben_thatmustbeme oh the conversation i have sparked
friedcell joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme s/conversating/debate/
# ben_thatmustbeme the webmention makes it an interaction. a person does not need to send the webmention
# ben_thatmustbeme the notification of it is the interaction
# ben_thatmustbeme someone else could send the webmention, but its still someone notifying you of it
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmentino" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=webmentino&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427487878347
# 
loqi.me created /webmentino (+79) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-27/line/1427487878347 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme i am actually thinking "reactions" might be better now. as the only thing I am showing are other actions that either are in response to my action or in reference to my action
# ben_thatmustbeme bots require someone to set them up, there was a conscious intent to send "all future posts" for example
# ben_thatmustbeme thats just a delayed reaction "then *afterwards* go through and find related/earlier posts "
# ben_thatmustbeme the edit is the reaction
# ben_thatmustbeme hmm
# ben_thatmustbeme true, it is not
fourtonfish joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme in that same arguement the mention is not in anyway a "response"
# ben_thatmustbeme they are specifically mentioning the original post, thus interacting with it?
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme going to catch the train
Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
j12t joined the channel
# 
@CaptainKurtis @withknown @colinsalter It's sort of reverse of what you are askin for, but @hongpong is working on a Drupal plugin to add webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/581557665739857920)
glennjones and dariusdunlap joined the channel
# tantek whereas an /invitation feels more like a reaction than a reply
# tantek it's in the /invitation markup already
catsup joined the channel
# 
voxpelli yeah – I know at least http://www.kevinmarks.com/ has quite a few
# tantek voxpelli: here is a brief list: https://indiewebcamp.com/homepage#Webmention_to_homepage
GWG and catsup joined the channel
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "conversation starter" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=conversation+starter&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427490470528
# gRegor` catches up on the terminology conversation
catsup and jacus joined the channel
# gRegor` I don't think I'm any closer to understanding/having a strong preference. :)
interactivist joined the channel
# gRegor` I'll stick with past-gRegor for now, thinking "responses" is adequate. http://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Responses
# gRegor` What is reactions?
# Loqi interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people do to and with others posts https://indiewebcamp.com/reactions
# gRegor` :)
# ben_thatmustbeme I'll stick with interactions. It's the links between actions of any type
# tantek ben_thatmustbeme: if you've decided to "stick with" then add your reasoning here: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Interactions
# 
kodfabrik.se created /conversation_starter (+374) "Created a stub, will add example afterwards" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme Other problem I am hitting is how to do tagging by micropub
# ben_thatmustbeme Specifically field names
# gRegor` So references = replies + reactions + mentions? (Just unpacking it a bit)
# ben_thatmustbeme I will when not on mobile
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme Tantek. The problem of that is tags are embedded in a category
# ben_thatmustbeme And even more messy. The coords and shape
scor joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme Its trying to form encode embedded items
# ben_thatmustbeme I know
# KartikPrabhu the whole embedding thing can be done by the micropub endpoint no?
# KartikPrabhu the client can send a bunch of properties (flat) and the endpoint can decide what to embed?
# ben_thatmustbeme It's very messy KartikPrabhu
# KartikPrabhu i mean micropub does not send tags as being embedded in a h-entry anyway
# ben_thatmustbeme I could send them flat but it breaks the standard we have been following for micropub
# KartikPrabhu what is micropub
# Loqi Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
# ben_thatmustbeme Tantek I don't think it's sane to do them as urls.
elf-pavlik_ joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme Look at examples on person-tag
# ben_thatmustbeme What is person-tag?
# Loqi A person tag (AKA people tag) is a special kind of tag that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tag by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag
# 
bear if anyone hasn't heard about the Slack security incident -- http://slackhq.com/post/114696167740/march-2015-security-incident-and-launch-of-2fa
benwerd joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme "Basic Person Tagging example"
# ben_thatmustbeme I would have to create an hcard for every location within every photo I want to tag people
# KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: no not really. You can send the URL of the person and the micropub endpoint would create the h-card
# KartikPrabhu from the URL or from some contact list
# tantek just as we did for /invitation and u-invitee
# ben_thatmustbeme What is invitation
# ben_thatmustbeme Links make mobile easier :)
# Loqi An invitation is an optional feature of an event post (an event with invitations), or a reply to an event post that also notifies a list of invitees that they've been invited to the event, or a special case of that, an RSVP to an event that also invites additional people to it https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation
# tantek.com edited /person-tag (+143) "use u-category like u-invitee, note examples use previous markup" (view diff)
# KartikPrabhu a good question is suppose I have a note which I want to tag with a keyword like "selfie" and then also tag a person like "http://tantek.com" does micropub distinguish them?
# KartikPrabhu if not, is there an algo that the endpoint should use?
# KartikPrabhu tantek: yes but the micropub client would send both as category without the p or the u
# ben_thatmustbeme What about other attributes? Coords and shape?
# ben_thatmustbeme Those are really odd
# tantek.com edited /person-tag (+0) "/* Basic Person Tagging example */ more u-category instead of p-category to emphasize the meaning of the URL referencing the tag" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme Need to not only be able to do multiple u-category but also have attributes that are specific to those
zachdonovan joined the channel
# ben_thatmustbeme Which is where form encoding is starting to fall apart for me
# ben_thatmustbeme So I suppose any future items that have additional attributes
# tantek.com edited /reactions (+585) "draft based on what appears to be common understanding" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# kodfabrik.se uploaded /File:indiewebcamp-square.min.svg "Square variant of the
{{logo}}"# tantek.com edited /interactions (+129) "update dfn, describe relation to replies and reactions, cluster specific examples" (view diff)
# Loqi interactions, or responses, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others posts: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
# kodfabrik.se uploaded /File:indiewebcamp-square.min.png "PNG variant of [[File:indiewebcamp-square.min.svg]]"
# Loqi interactions, or responses, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others posts, from written replies to quick likes, in otherwords responses = replies + reactions https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# Loqi reactions refer to the subset of responses/interactions with a post that are quicker, more impulsive, but still a conscious act, typically a simple UI gesture without writing any content, such as likes, reposts, bookmarks, or perhaps multiple simple UI gestures, such as selection a text range and posting a quotation of part of a post, or picking a person from a list to post an invitation as a response to seeing an event https://indiewebcamp.com/reactions
# 
@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #smallbusiness #analytics direct apis are great, but b2b connections hide your data - don't be afraid to get in there w/ csv (twitter.com/_/status/581576385493258240)
# @NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #owncloud self-hosting version of #dropbox but is the hassle worth it? How do you weigh privacy concerns vs access problems? (twitter.com/_/status/581577079826870272)
# voxpelli tantek: I'm thinking that it might map a bit to the grammar of the language? http://www.write.com/writing-guides/general-writing/grammar/direct-and-indirect-objects/
KevinMarks and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
torrorist joined the channel
torrorist joined the channel
KartikPrabhu, wolftune, friedcell and Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
# 
@svgur_com RT @screengui_de: Dies ist die neue Screenguide. Titelthema: #IndieWeb von @pfefferle. Ab Montag im Handel. Im Abo auch jetzt schon. http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/581586041854824448)
# @NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata looking for cloud tools- building a curated list- fave this and I'll add you to my coaching sessions #apieconomy (twitter.com/_/status/581588824326742016)
davidmead, alanpearce and tantek joined the channel
# 
@davidmead Somehow deleted few IMG from my blog, @withknown WP importer not working for me. How I love you #indieweb ;-) http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/somehow-deleted-few-img-from-my-blog-withknown-wp-importer (twitter.com/_/status/581598248223141888)
benwerd, snarfed and _1_jp joined the channel
# @davidmead Oh and now it keeps logging me out! (posting this thru Twitter) /cc @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/581599681190473728)
arlen, benwerd and alanpearce joined the channel