#indiewebcamp 2015-03-30

2015-03-30 UTC
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GWG Someone look at this quickly. https://tiny.n9n.us/2015/02/14/test-listen/
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GWG Ignore the content
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GWG How's the map?
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prtksxna GWG: The map looks nice. You could also consider using MapBox or Stamen tiles.
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GWG prtksxna: I was trying to find something that was pulling from OSM because I didn't want to get into API keys and such
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prtksxna GWG: For stamen you'll just have to change the URL for the tiles. No API keys involved.
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GWG Okay.
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GWG I didn't write the map generation code, but I might do that.
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GWG Github was my friend
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prtksxna GWG: See the tile section - http://prtksxna.github.io/leaflet-map-component/
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GWG I'm bookmarking that.
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GWG I want to get it stable, then I may enhance the presentation. It isn't usable at allyet.
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@rhiaro You know what's more fun than marking coursework? #indieweb-ing my blog. You know what's due in a couple of days? Coursework marks. nnnngggg (twitter.com/_/status/582342227885703170)
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GWG prtksxna: Any thoughts on location aware WordPress while you are here?
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prtksxna GWG: Location aware Wordpress? I am not familiar with what that is.
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GWG prtksxna: WordPress doesn't have location built in by default
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GWG prtksxna: I'm working on a plugin
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prtksxna It sort of does. I mean they have a dedicated column for it. The mobile app even uses it.
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GWG prtksxna: They have a geodata format. Not built in support
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prtksxna Not a dedicated column…the normal meta data column I think
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GWG I use their geodata keys in meta data
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GWG But there's no interface
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prtksxna Yeah. No interface on desktop.
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prtksxna The Android app has one.
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GWG prtksxna: I'm working on the full package.
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prtksxna GWG: :)
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prtksxna GWG: I am still tied to the approach of any post type (eg. check-in, photo etc) as a reply. I remember we disagreed on this the last time we spoke.
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GWG prtksxna: I'm writing the location awareness as a standalone piece. I am writing check-in functionality separately.
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GWG I think that works better
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GWG So, check-in would have location as a dependency, but not vice-versa.
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prtksxna Yup, that sounds like a good idea. Letting people choose which pieces they want :)
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GWG prtksxna: So, the Location plugin is just adding location to posts and pages...and optionally other post types.
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prtksxna GWG: Right. And it won't affect the view either?
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GWG prtksxna: It would optionally affect the view in one of two ways
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GWG 1. It would optionally add the location to the single page view, either as a map or text line. A note with location is different than a check-in.
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GWG 2. It would cede that control to the theme, if the theme declared support for it
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prtksxna Makes sense.
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GWG prtksxna: I keep revising it to try to get it more generic and less specific, but that is where I keep revising it over and over
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GWG I'm hoping it will make sense once I finish it
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acegiak ok weechat+glowingbear is pretty nice
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: I'm about to make you do work. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-20/line/1426868784422
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acegiak gwg: was dis work?
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GWG acegiak: That's what I use now. I tried IRCCloud for two months, but I still prefer rolling my own solution.
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GWG acegiak: I blame tantek.
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acegiak I think that's a common thread for people on here in general
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GWG acegiak: It was at IWC Cambridge
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GWG He mentioned that there were too many post kinds
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GWG At least for new users.
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GWG So, I made a default list and a setting to add more. I need to tweak it a bit, but...
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acegiak neat
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GWG acegiak: I figured you might update and say, "Where's my kind?"
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acegiak I feel like it's weird to be making that decision if it's not a problem we're having ourselves
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acegiak but I'm happy to add my own kinds back in
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GWG acegiak: I actually want to write a better settings page for it where you can select which ones you want in the picker.
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GWG I'm going back to it after I finish what I'm working on.
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acegiak I say "random thing" you say "kink"
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acegiak ahahaha, wrong window
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GWG I was wondering there
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acegiak training a bot
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GWG acegiak: For?
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acegiak http://acegiak.net/2012/01/17/dobbybot/
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acegiak dobby is my pet chatbot that does a bunch of things
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acegiak when he gets bored he posts to his tumblr or twitter
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acegiak which might be a youtube video, a quote, or a shitpost. I'm working on improving his shitposting atm
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kylewm !tell zachdonovan thanks that's helpful feedback. you do still need to run qworker.py either way -- I'll clarify in the instructions
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk good morning
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pdurbin aaronpk: mornin'
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Loqi [mention] Redscape commented 'Tristesse... 5 min read C'est le sentiment qui m'anime ce ma...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://known.glarose.fr/2015/tristesse)
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@andkjaer How to Improve Your Email Marketing With Social Media >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=80813&utm_content=buffer7f391&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Kristi Hines. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/582498297660719104)
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GWG Good morning
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aaronpk morning
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csarven What is Hypertext? https://twitter.com/csarven/status/582500727748194304 and https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2015Mar/0177.html
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Loqi csarven: kylewm left you a message 1 day, 9 hours ago: you piqued my interest. looks like it's the __NOTITLE__ directive http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NoTitle http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-28/line/1427593927255
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@csarven #WhatisHypertext The greatest insult combined with the greatest lie @TheOfficialACM @Hypertext2015 : http://ht.acm.org/ht2015/submission.html (twitter.com/_/status/582500727748194304)
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aaronpk lol is that a conference about hypertext asking for submission as a PDF?
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csarven Yes, it is absolute disgrace.
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csarven A new bar.
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pdurbin heh
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Garbee Anyone have any thoughts on this proposal? https://github.com/h5bp/lazyweb-requests/issues/172
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Garbee Seems like a good idea to me. Although it does mean less direct association of content in the page.
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aaronpk kind of goes against the whole visible data first thing
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aaronpk although I just did something similar on my site
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aaronpk i have rel="alternate" type="application/json" with a link to a microformats-parsed JSON document
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aaronpk it's at the top of any of my pages. really all it does is just write a link to the pin13 microformats parser, but it could just as well hve been a document generated by my site
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Garbee Yea, visible by default is one problem. Since this is a whole extra request and you need to know to make the call.
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aaronpk i added the link tag to make a point, that you can get a JSON version of my pages very easily
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@bookprescom How to Improve Your Email Marketing With Social Media >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=80813&utm_content=bufferc2a65&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Kristi Hines. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/582527784163143680)
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aaronpk i just made "microp3k" which is like a barebones h-entry microblog that can be themed and you can point a domain to it
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aaronpk it has no admin interface, just a micropub endpoint
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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aaronpk morning
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ben_thatmustbeme hey aaronpk, I wanted to run a micropub idea by you
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ben_thatmustbeme micropub to post a tag
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ben_thatmustbeme within a photo... which requires adding an area tag with added properties
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aaronpk updating a photo to add a tag?
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ben_thatmustbeme https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#Basic_Person_Tagging_example
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ben_thatmustbeme well its the same, posted a photo with a person tag, or posting a tag of someone else's photo
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ben_thatmustbeme how would we set coords and shape for example, the mapping isn't so simple
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aaronpk do we have a microformats2 example of photo tagging with xy coords?
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aaronpk i thought i rememered some discussion of how the microformats parsers should handle an <area> tag
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ben_thatmustbeme just above that link i posted in brainstorming
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ben_thatmustbeme so one has actually posted one yet as far as I know
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ben_thatmustbeme I was going to get that working but wanted to post first through micropub rather than messing around directly in the DB
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aaronpk i mean what should the parsed result of <area shape="circle" coords="124,58,8"... be?
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aaronpk i think it will be hard to make a sensible micropub request unless we have a good microformats representation of that kind of tag
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ben_thatmustbeme area tag is in the parse rules now, its defined
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ben_thatmustbeme runs through parser
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk https://gist.github.com/dissolve/429158b51f90519e5b3a
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Loqi slack/tantek: Ben, last we chatted about this I think I left you with some questions.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Also this is specifically about area-tags, not tags or person-tags in general.
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, yes, it is about area-tags specifically, but there is no reason to post area tags through micropub yet other than person-tagging
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Loqi slack/tantek: The idea was to model what Flickr allows which is to tag an area (rect) of a photo with just a note too.
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Loqi slack/tantek: It's a key part of owning your flickr export on your own site without dataloss.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Plus even FB allows you to "tag" an area (square) of a photo with text that does not match a person's name, and doesn't link to anything.
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ben_thatmustbeme also interesting points, p-category on an area tag can handle that, indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme so you are correct, its not just person-tagging
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Loqi slack/tantek: It's not even primarily person-tagging
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Loqi slack/tantek: You can person-tag without specifying an area
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Loqi slack/tantek: Eg what kevinmarks already does in his noterlive summary posts.
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Loqi slack/tantek: (Except we just changed the recommended markup)
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, i have issue with that as well, as you should be providing both text and url in one property
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Loqi slack/tantek: I can see how that could be a problem.
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ben_thatmustbeme which there is no mechanism for in micropub's common markup, you could provide only the url as u-category=<url> but if they don't have an h-card on their site, you don't get the name
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Loqi slack/tantek: In that case if their site lacks an h-card you may have to make a proxy h-card for them on your own site and then send that URL to micropub.
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, seems like more work than should be needed, but doable
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Loqi slack/tantek: It's part of the same structure as a nicknames cache
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ben_thatmustbeme and what about generic text that isn't their actual name?
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ben_thatmustbeme with link
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Loqi slack/tantek: Though public h-card proxies for people should likely be very minimal like maybe only name and site URL (as uid), and maybe twitter handle/URL if that's something of theirs that you reference.
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Loqi slack/tantek: In fact you must do that to person tag someone who has a twitter but no personal site.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Generic text tagging is easier because it just uses the existing comment mechanism but with u-tag-of instead of u-in-reply-to
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Loqi slack/tantek: Aside: for such local h-card proxies you probably need a decent URL structure for them
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ben_thatmustbeme except i thought the u-tag-of implies the set category is the tag, and content is fallback
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, no, u-tag-of is the post you are tagging them in, not the url you are tagging
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ben_thatmustbeme example, aaronpk posts a photo of you, i send
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Loqi slack/tantek: I'm not sure what you mean by "with link"
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ben_thatmustbeme u-tag-of=aaronpk.com/somephoto, u-category[url]=tantek.com u-category[text]="this guy is a genius" p-content="Ben Roberts tagged Tantek in a photo as "This guy is a genius"
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ben_thatmustbeme mismatched quotes in there, but i think you can understand it
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ben_thatmustbeme or is that something we don't allow?
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Loqi slack/tantek: That looks like a mix of a comment and a tag in one post which is not reflective of user behavior.
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ben_thatmustbeme thats fair, i was using that more to see the limits of what makes sense or not
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Loqi slack/tantek: Look at existing UIs for tagging things. They let you do one tag at a time.
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Loqi slack/tantek: When you're tagging other people's stuff.
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Loqi slack/tantek: And each one of those can be individually deleted by the recipient (or queued for moderation and selectively approved)
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Loqi slack/tantek: This kind of limitation AKA simpler design is very much driven by UI, user-interaction-flow.
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Loqi slack/tantek: In fact, *desired* UX flow.
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, so I can post a u-category= and then IF the url has an h-card i'm done, if it doesn't my site creates an h-card with data i know of them (name, url, twitter handle) and tags that way
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ben_thatmustbeme if its just a name i use p-category
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ben_thatmustbeme still can't do area though,
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Loqi slack/tantek: Yeah hence my questions from a few days ago about that
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Loqi slack/tantek: About the challenge of the parsed microformats JSON representation vs micropub capabilities.
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ben_thatmustbeme scrolls back, did i miss that?
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata what is your backup plan if the internet goes down? Can your business operate? Do you have a redundant data connection? (twitter.com/_/status/582568470417674240)
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata risk of losing internet vs. cost of backup data connection. Risk of biz server dying (drive? power supply?) vs. backup cost (twitter.com/_/status/582568986325491714)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Ben - it was when we last chatted about this (area) sometime in the past several days.
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ben_thatmustbeme http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-27/line/1427491306896
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ben_thatmustbeme there were no actual questions that i see
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ben_thatmustbeme actually the micropub url-encode standard thust far has been to post with category=<sometext> that would need to change too,
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ben_thatmustbeme s/too/first/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: actually the micropub url-encode standard thust far has been to post with category=<sometext> that would need to change first,
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Loqi slack/tantek: Hmm yes I failed to state it as a question.
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Loqi slack/tantek: URL is just a subset of "some text"
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata spread your cost and your risk - combo of local+cloud storage, local+cloud process: can you run if one goes down? (twitter.com/_/status/582569769423020032)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, so the server would have to parse for urls in the category text
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Loqi slack/tantek: But this does question the area/shape/coords additions to microformats2 parsing.
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata security: is your system secure? Compared to a data centre? vs. you are a small target, cloud biz=big score for hackers (twitter.com/_/status/582570113242697728)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Only absolute http(s):// urls at that. Discussed that with kylewm in the past few days also.
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Loqi slack/tantek: What is NorthCreekSoft?
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Loqi slack/tantek: (We may have to redesign how area tags work, from markup to parsed microformats output to what gets sent to micropub.)
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ben_thatmustbeme feels like he is breaking things again
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ben_thatmustbeme :)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Remembering of course that it's most important to keep the markup as simple/meaningful as possible for publishers.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Better to break things sooner than later ;)
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata cloud is a mixed blessing- any tool that you depend on 100% owns your business. #ownyourtools also - or rent loosely, w/backup (twitter.com/_/status/582570790316597249)
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ben_thatmustbeme "move fast and break things" ?
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@adactio @jbrewer I think you will like what the Indie Web Camp people are doing: https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/582571583887130624)
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #FLOW coaching session coming soon http://northcreek.ca/flow.html early bird pricing in effect - see your biz as flow of data, tool up (twitter.com/_/status/582571661268029440)
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Loqi [bridgy] Adam Simpson favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/582571583887130624)
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KevinMarks !tell tantek you changed the recommended markup for person-tagging?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks, did he? we were talking about it and I brought up some issues with it, but I don't know that it has actually changed yet
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Loqi slack/tantek: Kevinmarks yes. It was one instance of where I forgot to update the p-something h-object pattern into u-something h-object. Kylewm knows the details of the pattern.
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Loqi slack/tantek: And reasoning.
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ben_thatmustbeme oh that part, yes
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Loqi slack/tantek: Ben, Kevin, see /person-tag edit history.
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KevinMarks_ Phrase I wasn't expecting to see in a search engine land article : "kill the silos" http://searchengineland.com/fooled-us-google-no-longer-announces-major-algo-updates-217494
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KevinMarks_ It meant "delayer your marketing department's ORG chart" though
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@RikMende got my @withknown instance back online after moving from vps to @DreamHost hosting http://www.rmendes.net #indieweb #amazinglyeasy (twitter.com/_/status/582612053984169984)
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cweiske aaronpk, is there a reason you didn't merge my monocle PR yet?
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aaronpk Just that I've had very limited computer and Internet access while traveling
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cweiske ok
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aaronpk And my travel phone isn't signed in to github since I don't have the 2fa keys on here
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aaronpk Sweet got in. Thanks!
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kylewm cweiske: what's the difference between <? and <?php?
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cweiske "<?" does not work when php.ini has the setting short_open_tags=off
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cweiske s/tags/tag/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: "<?" does not work when php.ini has the setting short_open_tag=off
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kylewm gotcha
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aaronpk is there any reason not to turn short_open_tag on?
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aaronpk I find <?= very convenient
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gRegor` In PHP 5.4+ <?= is always available, to my understanding
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gRegor` Misread. <? is still dependent on short_open_tags=on
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gRegor` But <?= is not, after PHP 5.4+
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gRegor` I've been in the habit of "<?php" for so long since the environments I've worked in had short tags off.
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gRegor` Plus guaranteed to work everywhere
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@jgmac1106 @yinbk @Bali_Maha @JeffreyKeefer @mcjsa working webmentions tutorials written for us. Love #indieweb devs but they cant write for norms (twitter.com/_/status/582622672485556224)
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bret cweiske: is http://git.cweiske.de/ just gitweb? looks pretty :)
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bret aaronpk: is "This week in indieweb" available in html form
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bret ?
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bret layout is much nicer than http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:RecentChanges
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/
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aaronpk Linked from https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week-in-the-indieweb
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bret rad
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bret ty
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cweiske bret, it's gitweb with git://github.com/kogakure/gitweb-theme.git
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cweiske aaronpk, gRegor` - yes, there is a reason for not using <?
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bret nice looks quite a bit nicer than the default
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cweiske if you deliver XML files, <?xml already triggers the php interpreter
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cweiske because of <? in it
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aaronpk cweiske: just don't deliver xml files then ;)
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cweiske since I mostly deliver application/xhtml+xml, short tags break everything
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cweiske since all the files begin with <?xml
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aaronpk kidding... but there are plenty of ways to deliver xml files without making the php interpreter run on .xml files
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cweiske sure
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aaronpk I do wish short tags wouldn't execute unless there was whitespace fter the <? but that ship has sailed long long ago
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tantek.com edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+131) "add follow-up questions" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme, GWG, couple of follow-up questions that Halley sent me - added them to the wiki
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Loqi tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 4 hours, 54 minutes ago: you changed the recommended markup for person-tagging? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-30/line/1427735482574
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KevinMarks OK, here's my illustration of the navbar/scroll problem: http://www.kevinmarks.com/navscrollproblem.html
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KevinMarks is there a way to make the page's scroll ignore the bit of text hidden under the navbar?
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KevinMarks (a related problem is hitting page down or space scrolls sligllty too far, and you lose a line)
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bret uh oh, w3c irc looks down
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kylewm has anyone on Known gotten OwnYourGram u-syndication links to publish?
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KevinMarks hm, think I fixed the scrolling navbar thingy
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KevinMarks which does make me wonder why no-one else ever does this
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: any idea why https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##This+article+is+an+experiment fragmention fails but https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##includes+the+process this is working now? tested in FF 36.0.4 and Chrome 41.0
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KartikPrabhu also KevinMarks_ ^ confirm/deny?
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KevinMarks because it no longer says "article" in the body
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks it does
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: right here: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#display-ux
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KevinMarks oh
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KevinMarks then I dunno
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KartikPrabhu ok but it is not working for you too
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bret interesting feedback https://bigboringsystem.com/post/post!1421164266-5a
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bret (kylewm found that in the thread you pointed at)
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kylewm bret: bupkes has been around here I think
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bret oh cool!
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bret thoughtful posts!
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bret kylewm: does woodwnid only show notes? or article too
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kylewm articles too, only if they are shown in the h-feed though
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kylewm aaronpk's for example are not
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bret hrmm, never saw a big photo post I made show up
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kylewm interesting!
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bret same with monocle
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bret i wonder if I did something wrong
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kylewm ah, no u-url
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bret aw shit
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bret ty
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Loqi hehe
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: hey there!
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kylewm I love that Loqi is amused by light cursing
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Loqi woot!
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KartikPrabhu Hey JonathanNeal
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: what is the %23 doing in your first fragmention?
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KartikPrabhu err really
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: oh that is the double # notation
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KartikPrabhu weird I typed both with the double # notation
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: not to worry too much about those. Might have messed up my JS on my site. Will try to reproduce with cleaner example plain post
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kylewm bret: Hawaii post looks good to me
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JonathanNeal I had no idea http://www.betterlink.io/posts/better-fragmention.html existed. It reminds me of those old sales pitches on standard definition television: “Tired of your old, drag, fragmentions?”
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bret kylewm: boo ya fixed
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JonathanNeal s/drag/drab
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Loqi JonathanNeal meant to say: I had no idea http://www.betterlink.io/posts/better-fragmention.html existed. It reminds me of those old sales pitches on standard definition television: “Tired of your old, drab, fragmentions?”
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bret kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 148 karma
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: that post is valid criticism but their proposed solutions are not as good
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: Looks like something to do with https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions/blob/master/fragmention.js#L27
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: you suspect regex trouble! oh noes
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KartikPrabhu anyway will try to put a cleaner example soon so it is easier to debug. Also since Marginalia depends on fragmention, marginalia.js broke :P
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