#indiewebcamp 2015-04-02

2015-04-02 UTC
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tantek ooh is Bridgy Publish down for FB posts?
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tantek I'm seeing "Publish is not enabled for your account(s)."
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KevinMarks do you need to reauth?
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tantek when I click the link for that it seems to reload and not change anything
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tantek trying a disable / re-enable toggle
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tantek I'm wondering if this has to do with what snarfed and kylewm were chatting about this morning
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kylewm no, unrelated
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tantek https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611# says "Ready to publish."
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tantek I Enter post URL: into the field, click Preview
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@NZN Personal Sovereign Design http://iiw.idcommons.net/Personal_Sovereign_Design #iiw #SovereignSourceAuthority #vrm #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/583431790519390208)
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tantek and in ~1s the spinner turns into the text "Publish is not enabled for your account(s). Please visit https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611 and sign up!"
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tantek kylewm: oh? am I the only one seeing this?
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kylewm this is the first i've heard about it, the error from this morning had to do with comment IDs
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tantek do you think this is a transient error? something worth filing an issue about? I tried disable Publish / re-enable and that didn't seem to help.
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tantek this is the post I'm trying to POSSE: http://tantek.com/2015/091/t1/plank-pr-plankoff-new-goal
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kylewm looking
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tantek in the logs?
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kylewm yep, in the logs and also checking that "publish" is enabled for your account (it is)
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acegiak benwerd, did you jump into the gamergate hashtag specifically looking for a fight?
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kylewm tantek: OK it's not just you, it's basically everybody including me. And now I do think it's related to the stuff from this morning, in a roundabout way
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kylewm I'll follow up, thanks for reporting!
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acegiak cause it's a pretty fertile ground if you want to go fishing for bigotted neocons
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benwerd acegiak: I can neither confirm nor deny that I needed some catharsis
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tantek acegiak - I figure benwerd is using gamergate as a way to get voluntary testing of Known's block / mute and other social media management features. ;)
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benwerd I'm actually genuinely interested in how they tick as a group. So very different from the online groups I was a member of when I was a teenager.
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KevinMarks if you want to test reply-threading, benwerd, there are easier ways than poking the bear
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Loqi [bridgy] Aaron Parecki replied '@Malcolm_Ocean now it's taken.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/583448467390898177)
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kylewm aaronpk: cweiske: so i'm thinking the hub.secret needs to unique per hub (at least)... otherwise someone could set up a hub and just use it to collect your secret key
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kylewm I think I will just generate one random token per feed
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kylewm (but if one of you more security-minded people has a better suggestion, I'm all ears)
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kylewm of course it's 5am in germany
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@ChrisAldrich I'm impressed that @cstanhope has an .html-only #IndieWeb site: http://charles.stanho.pe/ I'll offer help to get .. http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/im-impressed-that-cstanhope-has-an-html-only-indieweb-site-ill (twitter.com/_/status/583467025860796416)
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Loqi [mention] Chris Aldrich commented 'I'm impressed that @cstanhope has an .html-only #IndieWeb site: http://charles.stanho.pe/ I'll offer help to get him set up with WordPres...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/im-impressed-that-cstanhope-has-an-html-only-indieweb-site-ill)
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@cstanhope @ChrisAldrich That's a very kind offer... http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/im-impressed-that-cstanhope-has-an-html-only-indieweb-site-ill/annotations/3124890e46906cc2ea6e70d7d3211bfb (twitter.com/_/status/583472119922565121)
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snarfed tantek_: thanks for the report! fixed, you should be able to publish again
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cweiske kylewm, yes, one pro subscription is best
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kylewm cweiske: well, I'm consuming content-ful pings now, and it still takes 2-5 seconds. too bad.
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@pierreozoux Introducing the Indie Dash Button! #indieweb #vrm http://werd.io/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm-2015introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm (twitter.com/_/status/583534699777282048)
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@clochix RT @pierreozoux: Introducing the Indie Dash Button! #indieweb #vrm http://werd.io/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm-2015introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm (twitter.com/_/status/583537621982412800)
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@RDBinns Amazon Dash may look like a luxury, but if becomes ubiquitous, do we want it to be proprietary? http://werd.io/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm by @benwerd #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/583587514126102528)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk kylewm: what kind of content are you receiving from pings from phubb?
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cweiske hiho
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aaronpk oh hey didn't see you there
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cweiske I was disconnected
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cweiske what do you want to know?
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aaronpk i was thinking about adding fat pings to switchboard, but wasn't sure whether i should do something like reconstruct the HTML from the parsed h-entry, or try to use the original HTML from the h-entry
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cweiske you don't know if the subscriber supports microformats
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cweiske or just wants to have the content of the page
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aaronpk i want to assume the subscriber supports microformats
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aaronpk but i see the point
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aaronpk are you sending the entire page then? or parsing out just the diff?
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cweiske I send the whole page
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aaronpk ah that makes it easier
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aaronpk fwiw, it is not at all clear in the spec that sending the page content (or diff) is required
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aaronpk "Notification: A payload describing how a topic's contents have changed, or the full updated content." https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#anchor2
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aaronpk keeps pointing back to the problem of the 0.4 spec being super under-specified
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+41) "/* Fat Pings */ note that the full page HTML may be sent as well" (view diff)
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aaronpk in other news, this is now a thing: http://pubsubhubbub.club
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tantek hahaha
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Loqi awesome
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tantek !tell snarfed thanks for the bug fix! Bridgy Publish worked for me just now to FB.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk i wanna make pubsubhubbub.club a planet that collects posts from everyone who publishes to a hub
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tantek aaronpk: are you thinking of writing a /how-to-hub as well?
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aaronpk good idea
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tantek cweiske was noting some of the reasons why he likes to have his own hub
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aaronpk i made my own because i wasn't happy with the visibility I got from superfeedr
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tantek bunch of PuSH related stuff here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-01#t1427926813156 worth wikifying when you have a moment
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cweiske I made my own because I don't want to rely on others
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tantek both good reasons worth documenting
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aaronpk the opaqueness of publishing and subscribing with superfeedr is what made it so hard to actually get going with PuSH
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ben_thatmustbeme soooo. if everyone runs their own hub... doesn't it make hubs kind of .... pointless?
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cweiske no. you still get instantness
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: 1) that will never happen, but 2) it's still a good architecture
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: it's similar to the question of running your own server vs shared host etc.
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tantek or github.io
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cweiske not really
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cweiske I thought push was invented to not to poll anymore
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aaronpk right
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tantek you run your own server, you get more stats. github.io doesn't give you that.
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cweiske which hub is used is actually not interesting for that
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ben_thatmustbeme no, its very different. the point of a hub is to have fan-out, you are using the push spec to send but eliminating the hub
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aaronpk your site could very well be its own hub
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ben_thatmustbeme so isn't fan-out still an issue
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cweiske what is a fan-out?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fan-out" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=fan-out&summary=prompted+by+cweiske+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1427984849988
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tantek aaronpk: just found this! http://www.rsssearchhub.com/
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aaronpk tantek: whoa
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tantek (speaking of "hubs")
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, I'm not eleminating the hub
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, now we just need them to get mf2 in there
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cweiske I implemented one
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske, is it hosted seperately from your site?
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cweiske my site is a static blog
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cweiske yes, it's different
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ben_thatmustbeme also, can others use it as their hub?
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cweiske yes
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, so its just another hub
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: i'm not following your argument. even if someone wrote their own hub that was only used by them, PuSH is still useful
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, it's *my* hub :) not just another one
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, if someone is willing to shoulder the burden of a hub, but they have to be cognizent of the fact that they are basically becoming a routing system for ANYONE. The point of PUSH from a producer perspective it to cut down needless traffic to their own site, save bandwidth. if one runs their own hub, that does the opposite
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tantek what is my hub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "my hub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=my+hub&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1427985157871
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cweiske wtf?
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, you're wrong
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: just because a hub exists does not mean anyone can use it
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cweiske the publisher chooses which hub he uses
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aaronpk a hub can require registration before it will start publishing things
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cweiske and all people will ask this hub if they want to subscribe to the publishers content
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ben_thatmustbeme when then its not a hub, you are just using the push instead of pull model, its not really a hub
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cweiske so you still have less traffic on your website
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cweiske and the traffic is handled by your hub
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tantek cweiske: are you running two servers then?
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cweiske what?
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cweiske no
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tantek then your (one) server is still handling more traffic in total
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tantek since it is both hub+website
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cweiske erm. no.
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cweiske because all the polling is gone
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cweiske but yes, it's more traffic than using a distant hub
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ben_thatmustbeme the polling is still there, just some polling isn't there
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tantek cweiske: how are you discouraging others from polling your server?
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cweiske I don't, I wait for them support push
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ben_thatmustbeme i should be clear, at that point you are really just supporting push, not writing a hub
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Loqi yea
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ben_thatmustbeme loqi agrees with me :P
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cweiske I don't understand you
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tantek cweiske: can anyone use phubb ? or does it reject subscribe requests for anything other than your website?
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: i don't understand why the semantics of defining a hub that way is useful
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cweiske even if it's my personal hub, it's still a hub
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, for fan-out
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tantek what is a personal hub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "personal hub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=personal+hub&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1427985472557
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, could you please explain fan-out?
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kylewm here's a good post re: reduced polling http://blog.superfeedr.com/wh-fetches-our-blog-feed/
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cweiske tantek, personal hub = hub only I can publish to
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tantek cweiske: hence my question: can anyone use phubb ? or does it reject subscribe requests for anything other than your website?
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cweiske it is currently open
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cweiske for anyone
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tantek interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske: the fan-out problem is that as you increase in subscribers your sending goes up contantly. With polling this became exponential, with pubsubhubbub in this makes it only increase at a constant rate (2N really)
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cweiske but that does not matter for the categorization of it being a hub
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, I still don't see the problem
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cweiske why shouldn't my hub handle those subscribers properly?
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cweiske if superfeedr can handle it, I can handle it, too
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cweiske *just add more worker processes*
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ben_thatmustbeme with an external hub, you are diverting all the work of sending traffic to external services (they pull your page once and send to your N subscribers) throughput burden is just 1 pull, nothing more (since pubsubhubbub is supposed to include the content)
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ben_thatmustbeme thus increase in subscribers only puts burden on the hub (which will be services that have high bandwidth)
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tantek what is how to hub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "how to hub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=how+to+hub&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1427985789479
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ben_thatmustbeme if you are running the site on your own, the benefits are only minor (you switch from polling to pushing) but you still have N pushes on your bandwidth, not just 1
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ben_thatmustbeme s/not just 1/not just one pull/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: if you are running the site on your own, the benefits are only minor (you switch from polling to pushing) but you still have N pushes on your bandwidth, not just one pull
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ben_thatmustbeme the idea of hubs was to optimize YOUR bandwidth as a publisher
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cweiske erm
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cweiske no
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cweiske having your own server also doesn't optimize your bandwidth
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cweiske pushing the website to github pages or whatnot optimizes your bandwidth
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cweiske but this is not reason for declining my hub the hub status
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cweiske ben_thatmustbeme, it's a side effect of push that you get your bandwidth optimized when using an external hub
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cweiske but it's not the central point
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cweiske I quote the spec:
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cweiske "We offer this spec in hopes that it fills a need or at least advances the state of the discussion in the pubsub space. Polling sucks. We think a decentralized pubsub layer is a fundamental, missing layer in the Internet architecture today and its existence, more than just enabling the obvious lower latency feed readers, would enable many cool applications, most of which we can't even imagine. But we're looking forward to d
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cweiske ecentralized social networking."
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cweiske all about push vs. poll, nothing about bandwidth
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ben_thatmustbeme that IS the main problem with polling
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cweiske no. latency is the problem with polling
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ben_thatmustbeme if bandwidth was unlimited polling would be latency free
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ben_thatmustbeme because you could constantly poll, its not efficient
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ben_thatmustbeme if it were not the point, then the spec would have been ONLY for notifying subscribers of messages, and would not involve hubs at all
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ben_thatmustbeme you are doing pubsub without the hub... bub
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cweiske i'd like to kick you out of the channel if I could
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ben_thatmustbeme ?
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aaronpk cweiske: that's a bit uncalled for
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snarfed (because of the bad pun, i assume :P)
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 28 minutes ago: thanks for the bug fix! Bridgy Publish worked for me just now to FB. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1427984574180
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aaronpk :P
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I think the spec was trying to solve two problems
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aaronpk the hub part of push is kind of analogous to how a webmention endpoint is not necessarily the same server as the website
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cweiske I chose to pay the bandwidth myself
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cweiske it's still push
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cweiske s/push/pubsubhubbub/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: it's still pubsubhubbub
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tantek agreed
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cweiske I can change the hub link on my blog's feed to suprfeedr, and all would be the same
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cweiske except that the bandwidth would be at superfeedr
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cweiske but that's about it
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tantek cweiske: and stats too right?
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tantek s/stats/subscriber stats
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Loqi tantek meant to say: cweiske: and subscriber stats too right?
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cweiske superfeedr may offer that, too - I did not check
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aaronpk superfeedr has minimal stats
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tantek or was it subscriber notifications? like with your own hub you know immediately when you get a new subscriber right?
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cweiske yes.
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tantek people used to display their number of subscribers on their site right?
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cweiske but I also get stats
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tantek so there is a UI reason too
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tantek cweiske: do you display the # of PuSH subscribers on your site?
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cweiske no
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cweiske and I won't
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aaronpk ooh i want to do that
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cweiske getting subscriber stats was a reason for people to use feedburner
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tantek aaronpk - yet another reason for "why" to /how-to-hub
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aaronpk okay gotta close IRC for a while
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tantek me too
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cweiske.de edited /PubSubHubbub (+119) "/* Matthias Pfefferle */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /PubSubHubbub (+4) "/* Matthias Pfefferle */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme guess I look at the network topology optizimation more than anything, i'm really over optimizing
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ben_thatmustbeme also, aaronpk is correct, it would never happen that everyone would run their own but even still the net effect would be better
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske++ for creating another hub
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Loqi cweiske has 23 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme s/hub/hub that is open source/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: cweiske++ for creating another hub that is open source
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tommorris aaronpk: webmention.io SSL cert is out-of-date
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aaronpk oh dammit thanks
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aaronpk fixed!
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snarfed kylewm: interesting re odd FB ids: https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/786903278061433/?comment_id=582840811819310
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snarfed "This type of format can be expected in certain endpoints. This is by design. Please treat IDs as unique strings, they are not meant to be broken down and used."
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snarfed i replied "the problem i mentioned is that we've received the same comments with different ids (without colons) in the past, and we depend on consistent ids…"
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snarfed whee
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kylewm holy fast response
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snarfed no shit, right?
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ben_thatmustbeme went to click that link "you must log in to continue" ... closed the window :p
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kylewm snarfed++ for bravely filing a FB bug report :)
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Loqi snarfed has 97 karma
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snarfed what's the worst that could happen?
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snarfed they shut down the app?
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snarfed …oh wait….hmm...
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kylewm I'm not too worried about that!
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snarfed s/brave/stupid/ :P
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kylewm more worried about them just removing API features over time so it breaks little by little
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Loqi slack/snarfed: done! :P
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, snafed... on slack?
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ben_thatmustbeme hello from :ben:
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Loqi slack/snarfed: lol <@U03QU365N>. saw it yesterday too. fun!
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Loqi slack/ben_thatmustbeme: also added :pbjt:
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Loqi slack/snarfed: kylewm: honestly my biggest question now is the whole "63" conspiracy theory thing
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Loqi slack/snarfed: so curious!
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ben_thatmustbeme 63 conspiracy?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: <@U03QU365N> read <https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305>
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Loqi slack/kylewm: tl;dr 63's keep showing up in FB comment IDs, first they were just the number 63, now they are 63 run through the app-scoped id generator
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Loqi slack/kylewm: haha, I wondered what you were doing with :pbjt:!
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Loqi slack/kylewm: whereyat, whereyat, whereyat, now thereyago, thereyago
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kylewm If i had gotten this email from LiveJournal yesterday I wouldn't have believed it.
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kylewm "Our new Remember LiveJournal promotion lets active members like you send their long lost LiveJournal friends an invitation to return"
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Loqi slack/tantek: Does slack use https?
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ben_thatmustbeme think so
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Loqi slack/tantek: kylewm can you capture that on /LiveJournal somehow? It gives hope to counter the shutdown email that I documented there.
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Loqi slack/tbrb: <@U03QSEYTP>: Yeah, slack uses HTTPS for their main interface
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Loqi slack/tantek: So basically because router/switch/captiveportal vendors have annoying / dumb defaults we're forced to build any new reliable network apps on http(s) ports 80/443 and nothing else.
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snarfed yup. true…but probably not a big deal. of all the constraints that actually matter to what we build, port and transport protocol are probably pretty low on the list
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snarfed and even then there is some slow progress and experimentation, e.g. spdy and quic
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk, is it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP>
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme damnit... i did it again
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it loqi?
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Loqi it: tantek left you a message 5 days, 9 hours ago: could act as a router for paying people at a particular domain
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Loqi :)
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is loqi?
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Loqi is: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 minutes ago: it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP> http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428001376199
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rhiaro tbrb and I are at an open data hack night, and we're evangelising indieweb
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ben_thatmustbeme well, at least i'm not the only one who did that
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 42 karma
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rhiaro I do it for the karma ^^
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+319) "adding lyrk.de" (view diff)
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Loqi slack/tbrb: ben_thatmustbeme: It should be possible, however it would require Loqi to do another call to the Slack API to look up what name is associated with the user id
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ben_thatmustbeme i figured it would have the full text somewhere as well
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (-44) (view diff)
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tommorris.org created /Template:Date (+413) "template for date formats" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+9) "testing new date template" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /Template:Date (+1) "colon syntax" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /Template:Date (-1) "significant whitespace?" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /Template:Date (+1) "blimey, it's been a while. I do not like MW templates." (view diff)
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Loqi slack/tbrb: ben_thatmustbeme: Yeah, you'd think so, but I think the outgoing-webhook api only shows the line as it goes through the slack backend rather than the frontend. Also, funnily enough, when you posted &lt;@U03QSEYTP&gt; it got translated on the slack side to the correct user
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tommorris.org edited /Template:Date (+3) "magic might help" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /Template:Date (-1) "typo" (view diff)
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tommorris I hate mediawiki templates.
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (-9) "I give up." (view diff)
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tommorris tantek__, aaronpk: can you delete this? http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:Date (or you can +sysop me and I’ll tidy up after myself like I do on most wikis).
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/rights () "changed group membership for User:Tommorris.org from (none) to sysop" (view diff)
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aaronpk tommorris: you should be able to delete it now
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 24 minutes ago: it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP> http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428001376199
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tommorris aaronpk: thanks.
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: i have no idea... i am not using the slack API right now
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tommorris.org deleted /Template:Date "Author request"
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aaronpk at least nothing besides the web hooks api and the method to post to a slack channel
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gRegor` What are you trying to do with the date template, tommorris? Or is it something our version of MW doesn't support?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you trying to do with the date template, tommorris" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+trying+to+do+with+the+date+template%2C+tommorris&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1428003305481
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gRegor` Shh, Loqi
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Loqi is done
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tommorris gRegor`: I was trying to make a template that lets you put {{Date|2015-01-01}} and it’d give you <time datetime="2015-01-01">2015-01-01</time>
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gRegor` Ah. Yeah, I ran into a similar limitation with the event template a while back. I forget what it was, but I think we were limited by the MW version
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (+0) "revisiting event template" (view diff)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Unnecessary dry violation. Plus no need for MW syntax when markup will do: &lt;time&gt;2015-01-01&lt;/time&gt;
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gRegor` Found the reference re: <time> element: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-10#t1399751004000
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gRegor` tantek makes a good point in this case, though.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Apparently slack to irc (archives) errantly double html escapes markup.
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, it doesn't unescape it
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ben_thatmustbeme when it posts in slack, you are posting the escaped form, loqi is just reading that text back as is
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders if he can @mention people back to slack by <@U03QSEYTP>
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Loqi slack/tbrb: Yes, ben
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, that worked
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk oh interesting, I have bots logging from Slack, but they are on IRC, and thus get the text version automatically
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (+43) (view diff)
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gRegor` Any comments on http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox and http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:one-day-event? I think it's ready for use on /events. I just kind of lost track of it. Feel free to test on that sandbox page.
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gRegor` One difference is /events wraps each city name in a p-location for HWCs, but this template puts them all in one p-location.
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gRegor` Not sure how crucial that is or not.
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: HWC next week on the 8th?
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gRegor` Might be the last one. I'm moving April 24th, so will have to see how that week is going.
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+995) "next" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+162) "moar hwc" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - that use of separate p-location for each city was deliberate
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tantek I wouldn't want to lose that
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tantek because by keeping the time "floating" (without timezone), one "event" was able to represent all those locations
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+4527) "hwc" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+4527) "hwc" (view diff)
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tantek whoa
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Loqi [mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Mein erster Titelthema Artikel …über ein Thema das mich gerade sehr beschäftigt: Die IndieWeb-Bewegung hat gerade in den letzten Jahre...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps (http://notizblog.org/2015/04/02/indieweb-die-daten-sind-wir/)
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tantek oh those are just "new" numbers
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@pfefferle IndieWeb – Die Daten sind wir! http://notizblog.org/b/3ns (twitter.com/_/status/583726055816503296)
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tantek rhiaro++ for speading the good indieweb word
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Loqi rhiaro has 43 karma
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gRegor` Good point, tantek. I'll tweak it to see how I can add multiple p-locations.
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kylewm.com edited /LiveJournal (+679) "/* Notable Events */ Remember LiveJournal" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-06-03-homebrew-website-club (+4527) "new hwc" (view diff)
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@NorthCreekSoft @Sylv1_Montreuil #databutler - a site that links data inside spreadsheets to cloud tools to update and #ownyourdata - no more csv import (twitter.com/_/status/583726624144814082)
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tantek cool! I was able to like aaronpk's Berlin half marathon! https://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/03/29/103711/
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tantek aaronpk: do you get many responses on your metrics posts?
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tantek plus I still think you should link people's icons to the permalink of their likes if they're indieweb like that (rather than silo backfeeds)
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kylewm I was able to like his nap! https://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/03/31/193155/
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kylewm If I like a <span class="p-p3k-drink">Beer</span>, is that like indie-untappd?
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kylewm and indie-cheers as it were
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tantek what is untappd?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "untappd" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=untappd&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-02%2Fline%2F1428006514837
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benwerd Anyone here a DNS genius who would be up for 30 mins to an hour of paid consultancy?
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kylewm Untappd is a social drinking app.
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loqi.me created /Untappd (+60) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428006514837 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek untappd is /Untappd
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tantek hmm
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tantek.com created /untappd (+21) "r" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: is Untappd just an app? or is it a site too? does it have permalinks to drinks or drinkings?
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gRegor` indie-cheers, where everyone knows your indie-name.
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kylewm investigates
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@BBJournalismus IndieWeb – Die Daten sind wir! von @pfefferle http:// (twitter.com/_/status/583729289293598720)
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kylewm.com edited /Untappd (+273) "expanded definition" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: it's a site with permalinks, and it looks pretty decent without javascript
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tantek so a beer silo?
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tantek I guess that's close to a grain silo
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kylewm.com edited /Untappd (+0) "had my MW link markup backwards. checkin <-> checkins" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: is a food or drink checkin actually a consumption metric?
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tantek the dilution of the term "checkin" is not helping anybody
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kylewm hmm, they are actually called Check-ins on Untappd
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kylewm q.v. permalink https://untappd.com/user/codebear/checkin/168610469
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, didn't realize, vidyo is all over the place
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ben_thatmustbeme http://readwrite.com/2012/11/20/this-video-company-powers-google-hangouts-and-nintendos-wii-u
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ben_thatmustbeme and that was in 2012
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kylewm and are associated with a location almost as much as they are associated with a drink
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry, random aside
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tantek kylewm: well that's more interesting then
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tantek a single post which is both a checkin and a consumption metric
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kylewm and a review
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tantek the locations appear to be venues
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tantek or ratings at least
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tantek dang that's a pretty interesting example of a composite post type
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tantek though from the URL structure and the permalink display prominently saying "1754 Check-ins" under bear's name, that makes me think they intend it primarily as a "checkin" and all other information is secondary
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@adammathes Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networks Happened (twitter.com/_/status/583733363262894080)
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kylewm the type of beer is the only required information to make a check in
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tantek adammathes sounds confused
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@adammathes IndieWeb suggests POSSE -- Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere but my AuthWeb philosophy is POYOSBCPEBTIWSTYAAXWSNH (twitter.com/_/status/583733574118932480)
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@adammathes Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networks Happened (twitter.com/_/status/583733607140757505)
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tantek the indieweb does not depend on XML
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tantek kylewm: it doesn't let you checkin without a type of beer?
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tantek or food?
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kylewm beer only, no food
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bear @tantek it is only for beer and you have to specify at least the beer
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bear optionally where
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bear the Toast feature is just like +1 or likes
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kylewm https://twitter.com/adammathes/status/583732795006066688
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@adammathes Is it cross-posting if nobody reads the original? (twitter.com/_/status/583732795006066688)
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bear and you can also leave comments
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tantek is adammathes posting any of those tweets to his own site?
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bear wow - that adammathes comment misses so many points
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tantek useful to respond? or just trolling?
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ben_thatmustbeme just trolling i think
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kylewm benwerd follows him
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kylewm so not just some rando
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ben_thatmustbeme but more looks like he is trolling for arguements
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gRegor` Someone point him to /xml? Heh
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benwerd Yeah, he inspired me to make my first web thing. I'm a fan of his. (Also he coined "Google bomb".)
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gRegor` Ooh
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tantek.com edited /Untappd (+280) "rewrite definition noting required vs. optional aspects, and loose use of term "check-in", add examples, see also" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is xml?
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Loqi XML is a markup language syntax, similar to SGML, but with draconian error handling that tends to make it fragile in practice https://indiewebcamp.com/XML
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benwerd tantek: not useful to respond. https://twitter.com/adammathes/status/583733888494645249
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@adammathes Before we get into a flamewar, I know that's inaccurate and unfair. It's been at least 15 years. (twitter.com/_/status/583733888494645249)
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tantek perhaps we need an @indieclippy to reply to such posts
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gRegor` Or more like /RSS#Criticisms than /xml
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tantek hmm - works at Yahoo. Have sympathy. http://adammathes.com/
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gRegor` Heh "It looks like you're trying to troll someone! Would you like..."
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tantek more like
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tantek @adammathes it looks like you're using a silo to complain about silos, but you already have your own domain. Would you like to install an indiewebcamp.com/project to get started owning your posts?
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kylewm I mean ... isn't that basically the narrative? indie web development stalled because of XML bikeshedding?
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tantek alright, there are 20+ followers of his that I know
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tantek but I'm down to 1% battery
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tantek so I'll leave the clever / encouraging / welcoming @-reply to the rest of you
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ben_thatmustbeme how about just "copy/paste IS posse. welcome to indieweb"
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Loqi slack/tantek: Manual posse at least :P
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benwerd Ooooor we could let it roll off our backs and make more and more awesome tools.
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gRegor` benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 68 karma
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Loqi slack/tantek: Benwerd do you think he is not genuinely interested in building his own online presence?
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Loqi slack/tantek: I mean treat it as an opportunity to welcome and help rather than argue.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Plus: look ma, no XML!
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ben_thatmustbeme thank god
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kylewm eh, let people be snarky on twitter. it's what it's there for. he's obviously reading the wiki if he's making fun of POSSE
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ben_thatmustbeme no necessarily, could have heard of it elsewhere
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snarfed aww man i missed the beer markup discussion
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snarfed …which is probably fine. i'll happily add whatever markup to https://snarfed.org/beer
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www.rmendes.net edited /Known-fr (+53) "/* Exemples Indieweb */" (view diff)
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snarfed in other news…kylewm, we got this reply from FB, which…kinda…facepalm? https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/786903278061433/?comment_id=1581220468761695
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snarfed he's responding, and yet very clearly not answering the question. not sure what i should say to him…
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kylewm wtf, I understood he was confused by the original email, but the followup was pretty damn clear
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snarfed i think he saw the "without colons" part and glazed at everything else
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snarfed gah
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www.rmendes.net edited /Known (+53) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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kylewm at the same time, at least their support is up to the same quality as their API and documentation
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@swirlee RT @adammathes: IndieWeb suggests POSSE -- Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere but my AuthWeb philosophy is POYOSBCPEBTIWSTYAAX… (twitter.com/_/status/583739936064405505)
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@swirlee RT @adammathes: Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networ… (twitter.com/_/status/583739945128296448)
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 149 karma
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gRegor` https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/583736644903149568
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@benwerd @adammathes In all seriousness: keeping all my posts in a place where I can search for them later is useful. Less Diaspora, more Evernote. (twitter.com/_/status/583736644903149568)
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kylewm snarfed: is it worth trying one more time? or should we just move forward assuming it's a one-time change and there won't be new duplicates going forward?
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snarfed kylewm: yeah i'm replying right now
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snarfed i'd love to assume it's a one-off, except it's happened twice so far that we've noticed :/
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gRegor` Based on the multiple similar responses in the other bug report he linked, I'm not hopeful for a better response.
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snarfed done. hope springs eternal. https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/786903278061433/?comment_id=960459263979236
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kylewm snarfed: you didn't change anything in bridgy yet did you?
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snarfed kylewm: for the bad ids? no
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/commits/
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kylewm hmm, sorry false alarm. i thought i was getting backfeeds, but they were from just before the bad ids started
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snarfed reply from the FB guy: "oh wait what, that doesn't sound right. looking at this again."
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snarfed love it
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: up for HWC on the 8th
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KartikPrabhu i will be in Princeton on 24th so this would be the last Chicago HWC
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gRegor` The following is the 22nd, not 24th
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gRegor` But yeah, I'm ok with that if it's tight scheduling.
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KartikPrabhu oh hmm will still be in Princeton :P
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kylewm snarfed: crap, i don't have an example of the duplicates from this batch because none of those posts were backfed to my site before
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gRegor` Ah, ok then.
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gRegor` Well maybe we can celebrate after HWC on the 8th.
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snarfed kylewm: np! thanks though. i honestly don't know if there are any dupes this time. just that there were last time, reported by aaronpk
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kylewm i bet there were
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: sure... i'll be up for that and we can also take a picture that tantek keeps telling us about :P
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gRegor` doesn't believe in pictures
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KartikPrabhu :P
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (-11) "/* Where */ Chicago" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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kylewm snarfed: I think I found one!
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snarfed kylewm: woo nice!!!
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snarfed feel free to post to that fb bug
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snarfed thank you!
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kartikprabhu.com edited /events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ me" (view diff)
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tantek signs of past productivity: https://twitter.com/adammathes/status/583757333395681280
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@adammathes @benwerd I've written tools to do this https://github.com/adammathes/ekko but I have not personally found it as useful as embracing impermanence (twitter.com/_/status/583757333395681280)
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kylewm impermanence on twitter is illusory
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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kylewm see: Trevor Noah
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tantek kylewm: indeed, see also Twitter search now goes back to the beginning, and LoC has a copy of all of it.
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kylewm so if it's going to be permanent, i'd like to have a copy of it :)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'Join us for Homebrew Website Club next Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/e...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2015/04/02/1/)
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@gRegorLove Join us for Homebrew Website Club next Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/events/398932033608684/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs (twitter.com/_/status/583761188233674753)
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gRegor` It would be great if the people we've been inviting to HWC came and kept it going after I move. :)
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KartikPrabhu true
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kylewm gRegor`: maybe you should market it differently to them? Chicago HWC Going Out of Business Sale: Everyone Must Come
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gRegor` Hehe
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gRegor` Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday!
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@gRegorLove This will be my last Homebrew Website Club in Chicago. If others are interested in keeping it going, definitely get in touch. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/583762949061287936)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (+19) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (-7) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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gRegor` 4/04 day coming. Anyone have anything planned? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-09-05/line/1378427562000
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kylewm I'm giggling thinking of alternate reality trevor noah searching his Known archive for jokes about "jews" and "fat chicks" to sanitize his tweets
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tantek.com created /drink (+18) "r for now" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /food (+427) "add stub why and how sections, and silo example Untappd" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Gregor Morrill RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/398932033608684#27301982)
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KevinMarks Pull request to myWordEditor to make it indieweb compatible https://github.com/scripting/myWordEditor/pull/1
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KevinMarks should I have added webmention.herokuapp.com link and JS as well as the disqus stuff?
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KevinMarks :D
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tantek KevinMarks: why is Disqus useful?
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tantek what is Disqus?
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Loqi Disqus is a comments hosting silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Disqus
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tantek alrighty then
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@zenbot RT @adammathes: Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networ… (twitter.com/_/status/583775431272173569)
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tantek I still didn't realize we were around for 10 years.
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