#indiewebcamp 2015-04-14

2015-04-14 UTC
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bengo
Thoughts on this? Chromium and Firefox teams have both expressed an interest in having the browsers complain louder when you're visiting a site over HTTP and not HTTPS. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.platform/xaGffxAM-hs
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bengo
Was one of the things I had in mind yesterday when doing https://github.com/gobengo/indieweb/pull/2
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snarfed
bengo: if you're thinking about this as an (indieweb) publisher, you might like https://hstspreload.appspot.com/
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bengo
snarfed ooh that's interesting. Cool.
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bengo
snarfed what is your domain?
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Loqi
A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indiewebcamp.com/your_domain
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bengo
ah, .org not .com
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bengo
TBH I would really like to make http://bengo.is/ https-only, but have to learn the steps to do it all.
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tantek.com
edited /actino (+3) "g of"
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tantek
salmon was too hard to implement and definitely provided inspiration for trying again with simpler building blocks
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tantek
salmon also failed creator selfdogfood
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kylewm
I thought status.net used salmon?
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kylewm
gets the feeling this has been discussed before here
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tantek
what is salmon?
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Loqi
Salmon is a 2010-era feed-based protocol for sending comment notifications that is part of the OStatus stack https://indiewebcamp.com/Salmon
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tantek
kylewm: that sounds right
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kylewm
found a discussion where barnaby tried to implement salmon to integrate with statusnet but had to give up
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tantek.com
edited /Salmon (+241) "note superseded by webmention, past examples, statusnet"
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kylewm
"barnabywalters it's essentially xmlrpc with public key verification"
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kylewm
lol, it is somewhat depressing reading these references in the IRC logs reverse-chronologically ... barnaby gets more and more enthusiastic the farther back i go
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tantek
kind of like the US Space Program?
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tantek.com
edited /Salmon (+499) "criticism, too difficult to implement, add self and barnabywalters"
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kylewm.com
edited /Salmon (+702) "/* Too Difficult To Implement */ add details to entry for barnaby"
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kylewm.com
edited /Salmon (-5) "/* Too Difficult To Implement */ remove linebreaks for better indentation."
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tantek
yeah that sounds sadly familiar
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bengo
Some good tin foil hats wrt my HTTPS-only messages earlier: https://github.com/nylira/prism-break/issues/233#issuecomment-20551794
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kylewm
🎶 cannot remember if I let StartSSL generate my private key or not 🎶
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bengo
Has anyone heard of Syndie? http://syndie.i2p2.de/index.html A name that rhymes!
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bengo
Really this whole list is pretty neat https://prism-break.org/en/categories/servers/
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fiatjaf
thank you, bengo
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bengo
Found this on there 'sot', which looks to be like a decentralized messaging protocol. It's JSON-based, meaning they could probably benefit from a standardized serialization format: https://zothub.com/help/Zot---A-High-Level-Overview . It looks like it's currently using some sort of activity like thing. { verb: 'post', ... }
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bengo
Pretty active project since 2012 (12k commits). Crazy. https://github.com/redmatrix/redmatrix
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kylewm
I believe RedMatrix is built by the same guy as Friendica
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kylewm
(and that carries some clout with me because friendica actually does bridge multiple networks)
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bengo
kylewm from what I saw wrt github usernames, I think that's right (Friendica)
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kylewm
oh snap, I got ownyourgram to post to tumblr ... not sure yet if that is something to be proud of http://kylemahan.tumblr.com/post/116360920312/homemade-vegan-banana-walnut-waffles
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kylewm
a very circuitous route to PESETAS
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snarfed
kylewm: wooo!!! end to end!
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snarfed
congrats!
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snarfed
love the tagline. "Pretty much just here for testing indieweb integrations with tumblr"
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kylewm
hehe thanks
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kylewm
my test posts are somewhat comical.... lots of "This is a photo upload" with no photo
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@iamkarrencooper
130415: My caloric goal vs total. #OwnYourData #KeepTrack #CoachKarren https://instagram.com/p/1cYaLhKO9S/
(twtr.io/yKttMP9Y5L)
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aaronpk
kylewm: whoa
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acegiak
Dear youtube: why not embed a player in your rss feeds?
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KevinMarks_
!tell acegiak do the youtube feeds work in unmung.com ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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siebennull.com
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+291) "/* Participants */"
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@MadeMyDay
I will attend the IndieWebCamp Germany 2015 \o/ http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany
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@bengo
I am my own Certificate Authority. Do you trust me more than e.g. GoDaddy? Tell your browser. https://bengo.is https://twitter.com/bengo/status/587888816993632257/photo/1
(twtr.io/yL8HcEgcqx)
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@MadeMyDay
Musste ja nur ein Ligaspiel verlegen dafür :D #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/yLAUzBYgb0)
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bengo
Unfortunately I don't think indiecert works if your HTTPS uses self-signed certs :(
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cweiske
no, it does not
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pfefferle
good morning
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KevinMarks_
posts to tumblr form Quill using feverdream
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bengo
cweiske why not?
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cweiske
because it verifies the certificates against its internal list of official CAs
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bengo
I figured. I'm interested in whether it really HAS to have a whitelist to be useful
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bengo
petermolnar cool
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cweiske
MITM-attacks
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bengo
I see
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petermolnar.eu
created /letsencrypt (+1297) "init"
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bengo
It seems like if I'm telling indiecert what my domain is, that domain is protected via HTTPS with a Cert signed by key A. If I can use the same key A for signing something when I logging in with indiecert, shouldn't I be trusted?
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bengo
esp if my site also has a fingerprint of the same cert (signed by key A, which I've just proven I have)
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cweiske
that's a point
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cweiske
fkooman isn't here to discuss this
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cweiske
but I think you've got a good idea
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yatil.net
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+289) "/* Participants */"
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yatil.net
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+1) "/* Participants */"
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yatil.net
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */"
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bengo
cweiske Thanks for the advice. I'm hardly an expert in this. We'll see what fkooman says on that gh issue
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bengo
It appears based on other pulls that the main indiecert deployment is just using the host OS's trusted CAs. I suppose I'm proposing to either allow for an explicit whitelist that can be peer-reviewed in the source code, or just for his cURL requests to use the insecure flag, but verify via fingerprint
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bengo
*his meaning indiecert's
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@andkjaer
Cuckuu Turns Alarms into Social Experiences on Mobile >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=618332&utm_content=buffer8bbbc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Brandy Shaul. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twtr.io/yLdrB3Li5c)
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tommorris
so, I kinda added webmentions support (very much in beta) just for likes: https://tommorris.org/posts/9247
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tommorris
comments soon too...
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Loqi
tommorris has 73 karma
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snarfed
tommorris++
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Loqi
tommorris has 74 karma
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tommorris
there's some things I'll want to add at some point: blocking, for one.
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kylewm
GWG: hey wordpress question for you... if you were posting a photo, would you use Post Format = Image, and what would the title/content of the post be?
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning
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tantek
tommorris++ nicely done with showing likes! what design considerations did you have in terms of name vs icon (e.g. facepile) etc.?
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /person-tag (+782) "/* IndieWeb Interest */"
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Loqi
tommorris has 75 karma
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tommorris
tantek: I'm not sure yet. Need to doodle in my notebook some more. I am in the process of rebuilding Ferocity to be less hacky, but wanted to hack in likes to see how to make the next version of ferocity less crap. ;-)
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tantek
new features are a good way to instigate re-architecting for less hackiness ;)
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tantek
rhiaro: I think you may be confusing mentions and tags in your second example https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#rhiaro
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tantek
as the Twitter analogy you draw is just a mention, not a "tagging"
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tantek
you can (should) still send webmentions for "just" mentions, and thus you get the Twitter "start a new thread" functionality
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tantek
person-tagging is for when someone is part of the *subject* of a post, e.g. the post is about them (whether text or a photo of them)
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rhiaro
tantek: okay, that makes sense, just overthinking I guess
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Loqi
rhiaro: tantek left you a message 1 day, 9 hours ago: the examples of "that I probably don't need to create a post for." are all things that actually make sense as explicit posts with their own permalinks that you can update or delete! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-12/line/1428904221618
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Loqi
rhiaro: tantek left you a message 1 day, 9 hours ago: " this presents another point for confusion: when do I like a post, and when do I like the fact you published it" <-- precisely why separate Activities vs. Objects is *bad* (confusing) for the user model, thus bad overall and to be avoided. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-12/line/1428904302766
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rhiaro
tantek: more on post types later..
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rhiaro
back in 15
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winghouchan
Howdy everyone! Is anyone here based in or around London, UK?
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winghouchan
I'm trying to recruit volunteers to help kids code :)
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winghouchan
Email me if you're interested: wing-hou.chan@escalla.me
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tommorris
winghouchan: I am in the UK.
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tantek
winghouchan - welcome! what's your personal site?
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winghouchan
I'm finishing work so will be on the move
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winghouchan
winghouchan.co.uk
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tantek
great!
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winghouchan
tanek: Thanks!
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tantek
are you helping kids code their own websites?
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winghouchan
tantek: Thanks!
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tantek
because that would be amazing!
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winghouchan
Can we talk via email, Skype, WhatsApp, etc? Or later
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tantek
better here
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winghouchan
I'm finishing work now so am on the move
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winghouchan
IRC on Android isn't that good xD
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tantek
no problem - come back whenever it's convenient for you!
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winghouchan
Okay cool!
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winghouchan
Cheers
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tantek
and feel free to lurk with indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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winghouchan
Cheers!
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tantek
with some minor changes you can add some good indieweb support to your homnepage winghouchan
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davemenninger.com
created /Template:davemenninger (+265) "Created page with "<includeonly><span class="h-card">{{sparkline|davemenninger.com/7867380014_2847527433_q.jpg}} [[User:Davemenninger.com|Dave Menninger]]</span></includeonly><noinclude> This templ...""
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davemenninger.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+71) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */"
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davemenninger.com
created /User:Davemenninger.com (+89) "Created page with "Just getting started with IndieWeb. ( 2014/2015 ) My site is: http://davemenninger.com/""
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tantek
welcome davemenninger! and thanks for adding yourself to the HWC page!
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davemenninger
tantek: thanks!
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gRegor`
Nice icon, davemenninger. Makes me think of the Pit Stop game.
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davemenninger
gRegor`: thanks
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davemenninger
at some point many years ago, i got tired of constantly having to find up-to-date square-cropped images of myself, so i made a pixel-art logo to use instead
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gRegor`
Does your website ever say "Sorry, I can't let you do that Dave"? :)
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davemenninger
:)
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gRegor`
tantek: I guess I should move Chicago HWC to "Getting Started" section since it's technically on hiatus, until another person expresses interest?
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tantek
is it over?
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gRegor`
Yep, Kartik and I cannot meet on the 22nd.
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tantek
should Getting Started be renamed to Getting (Re)Started?
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gRegor`
That could work
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tantek
Getting Started or Restarting
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gregorlove.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+14) "/* Meetings */ mv Chicago to Getting Started or Restarting"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+9) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */ note 'former'"
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /Nginx (-2) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /Nginx (+166) "/* How to */ use various HTTP headers to make a website more secure."
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tommorris.org
edited /events/2015-04-22-homebrew-website-club (+5) "/* RSVP */ adding +1 for boyfriend"
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winghouchan
Howdy everyone!
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tommorris
hey again
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tantek
welcome back winghouchan
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winghouchan
tantek, tommorris: Hey again!
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winghouchan
tantek: Cheers!
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winghouchan
tommorris: Hey!
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tantek
was just saying - if you want to add indieauth support to your personal site, you can add rel=me to your links to your other profiles / email etc.
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tantek
on your home page
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winghouchan
tantek: Okay, cheers!
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /person-tag (-478) "/* scratch that.. */"
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tantek
winghouchan: here are some complete examples that may help explain further http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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winghouchan
tantek: Thanks!
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winghouchan
Soo to answer your question tantek, yes I am!
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tantek
you're welcome! and that's great news!
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winghouchan
We're not focusing on websites only, just general programming, digital design and hardware hacking.
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winghouchan
tommorris: Whereabouts in the UK are you?
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tantek
even if it's just a part of what you get them to learn, that's still great
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winghouchan
Ya it is!
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tommorris
winghouchan: central london
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tantek
so they don't just assume that they have to all use Twitter/Facebook/Instagram etc.
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winghouchan
tommorris: Sweet!
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winghouchan
tantek: Haha true
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tommorris
winghouchan: what relationship does what you are doing have to CodeClub?
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rhiaro
hey winghouchan, you do YRSHyperlocal?
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winghouchan
tommorris: Me, none
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petermolnar
by the way, tantek, have you read this one? https://medium.com/backchannel/a-teenagers-view-on-social-media-1df945c09ac6 especially the part about Medium.com
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winghouchan
rhiaro: Ya I do!
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winghouchan
rhiaro: How did you know? xD :P
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rhiaro
winghouchan: I found your twitter :p I run a centre in Edinburgh
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tantek
petermolnar: yes a while back when it came out
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winghouchan
rhiaro: Sweet!
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rhiaro
winghouchan: prewired.org
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petermolnar
I'd wonder what could be powerful enough to offer from the indieweb direction that would give similar experience as medium.com does
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winghouchan
rhiaro: YRS were looking for a centre up there! Glad you stepped in!
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rhiaro
We've been running it for a few years now
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winghouchan
rhiaro: Ohhh sweet!
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petermolnar
winghouchan, Cambridge, UK here :)
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winghouchan
tommorris: I've no relationship with CodeClub
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winghouchan
tommorris: But I'm a centre lead for Young Rewired State Westminster
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winghouchan
petermolnar: Nice! Not sure if there's a YRS Hyperlocal there but you can set one up!
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tantek
hahahaha: "I personally do not know anyone who actively uses Google+."
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tantek
"I personally abandoned the service because I found it difficult and tiring to categorize every single person into different “circles” and then keep track of all of those groups."
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tantek
so much for all that socio-academic "circles" jerking around
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winghouchan
rhiaro: What's your twitter?
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tommorris
circles on G+ is just a fancy UI for what a lot of people do on Facebook with setting up lists.
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rhiaro
winghouchan: rhiaro, everywhere
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winghouchan
rhiaro: Wanna follow :)
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winghouchan
rhiaro: Okei dokei :)
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tommorris
I have a 'Wikipedians' list on Facebook so I don't spam non-Wikipedia friends with stuff that's not of interest to them.
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tantek
winghouchan: the right question to ask is, what's your personal website? which then links to the silo profiles (like Twitter) ;)
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petermolnar
tantek I've read that one as well, but I'm still thinking how the mentioned medium.com social experience could be done with indie sites; we used to have webrings an awful long time ago, is there anything similar nowadays?
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tantek
the point about "Recommend" in the Medium UI caught my eye
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tantek
I'd suggest coming up with an indie version of that before any reminiscent stuff ;)
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tantek
on Ello: "By the time I actually gained access to the website, however, everyone I know had already moved on and there wasn't really anything interesting for me on there."
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petermolnar
that's what I'm trying to do, but I need the brainstorm, because I cannot figure it out on my own
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tantek
when you're not sure, then do less. e.g. how closely can you mimic the "Recommend" feature?
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tommorris
petermolnar: I find the whole medium "channels"/"magazines" thing pretty arbitrary. like I heard an interview with someone who was identified as being a staff writer for Matter, a channel on Medium. it's trying to recreate in digital land the idea of a publication or curatorship, but I just get feeds from Medium of people I care about regardless of which
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tommorris
arbitrary publication they write for.
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tantek
petermolnar: perhaps start with documenting ti
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tantek
s/ ti/ it
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: petermolnar: perhaps start with documenting it
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tantek
what is Recommend?
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tommorris
there's plenty of stuff that's interesting about medium that would be worth documenting
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tantek
tommorris: the context is what feature of medium a 19 year old said made it interesting
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tantek
what is medium
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Loqi
Medium is an article hosting silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Medium
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petermolnar
recommend could technically be done with webmentions as send recommendation, but where to show/list/group the recommended things?
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tantek.com
edited /Medium (+49) "add recommend to Features"
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tantek
tommorris: feel free to add some of that "plenty of stuff that's interesting" to https://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#Features
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tantek
petermolnar: start with documenting how /recommend works before brainstorming how it could be done
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winghouchan
Complete internet failure here >.<
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winghouchan
I'm back now
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winghouchan
:D
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winghouchan
Lemme catch up on what I missed first
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tantek
looks at topic
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winghouchan
tantek: It was an unfortunate coincidence when I mentioned bad signal in the countryside, my internet completely failed xD
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winghouchan
Anyway
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winghouchan
Now I can't remember what I was going to say / do xD
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winghouchan
>.<
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tantek
that's why we have logs :D
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winghouchan
:D (y)
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tantek
winghouchan: here you go, context restored for you http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-14#t1429027252887 :)
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winghouchan
I've already read it -- Too fast for you :P
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tantek
winghouchan: excellent! did you try the rel=me validator at indiewebify.me ?
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winghouchan
Not yet
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winghouchan
I'm on the train trying to do too many things xD
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loqi.me
created /Laravel (+73) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk"
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winghouchan
Welp my phone battery is dying. Got to go
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winghouchan
See everyone later!
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kylewm
micropub to tumblr and wordpress support are up on https://feverdream.herokuapp.com/
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kylewm
blogger is waiting on manual access to their api
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aaronpk
omg wow
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aaronpk
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 153 karma
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kylewm
thanks!
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snarfed
woo!!!
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 154 karma
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snarfed
that was fast!
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kylewm
I could particularly use help testing custom domains
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kylewm
if anybody has one for those sites
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kylewm
I'm guessing it Just Won't Work
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dariusdunlap
That’s awesome!
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Loqi
kylewm has 155 karma
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dariusdunlap
On Wordpress.com, all “Custom Domains” also have a mydomain.wordpress.com URL to acccess, btw.
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dariusdunlap
Does that make any difference?
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@NorthCreekSoft
Then find cheap glue to integrate them! @zapier @IFTTT @geckoboard No need to tear everything down #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/emyth/status/588029541349773312
(twtr.io/yLykG6M5vD)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, good idea, i take it you are using the value from the token
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: it's the client_id used during authorization
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, thats what i meant
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have have to do that too
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tantek
I really want nested <time> elements instead of the value class pattern
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tantek
to reduce the DRY violation of having to use the datetime attribute of <time>
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tantek
as in <time><time>2015-04-14</time> at <time>13:00</time> <time datetime="-0700">US/Pacific</time></time>
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tantek
instead of <time datetime="2015-04-14T13:00-0700">2015-04-14 at 13:00 US/Pacific</time>
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aaronpk
speaking of <time> we still need an updated h-event to iCal converter right?
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aaronpk
it'd be pretty great to get the indiewebcamp events page into my phone's calendar app
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tantek
aaronpk indeed
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tantek
let's start backwards
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tantek
what calendar app are you using?
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aaronpk
iOS system calendar and Google Calendar
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tantek
you check two calendar apps?
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tantek
and is it really called "iOS system calendar" ?!?
#
tantek
from an indieweb perspective, the real question is how do we aggregate all the events we're interested in onto our own *sites* (nevermind someone else's app)
#
tantek
and then POSSE it out to where ever we want notifications / mobile etc.
#
tantek
aaronpk do you have an aaronparecki.com/calendar where it aggregates all your RSVPs and Events?
#
tantek
and then displays them as a calendar?
#
tantek
mobile friendly even? ;)
#
tantek
(just saying)
#
tantek
then your mobile calendar "app" could just be a homescreen bookmark of aaronparecki.com/calendar
winghouchan joined the channel
#
rhiaro
is itching for the personal site calendar thing
#
ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: that would be interesting indeed. Been working on contacts first
#
tantek
what are rhiaro's itches?
#
rhiaro
waits for loqi
#
Loqi
who, me?
#
tantek
hmm - I think Loqi ignores the apostrophe terms
#
rhiaro
what is rhiaro.co.uk
#
tantek
that's too bad - probably an escaping problem
#
aaronpk
i don't think i can not use google calendar
#
rhiaro
what is User:rhiaro.co.uk
#
rhiaro
what is User:Rhiaro.co.uk
#
aaronpk
i use the ios calendar mostly for esri stuf since it's an exchange server behind it
#
aaronpk
but it's nice having things there cause then it's integrated with ios
#
tantek
so loqi dislikes apostrophes
#
tantek
what are rhiaros itches
#
loqi.me
created /rhiaros_itches (+37) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-14/line/1429038652367 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: i'm totally reliant on gcal at the moment, but andrei sambra has made a really nice looking linked data based clone. I just need to fix/tweak a few things, then I'm hoping I can just use that with my blog event/rsvp posts which are already available as rdf
#
tantek
funny to hear you both say how reliant you are on gcal or " can not [sic] use google calendar"
#
GWG
Kylewm, I stopped using post formats, but the title and caption would often match
#
tantek
since I don't use it at all except to reserve the room space for HWC in my work calendar
bengo joined the channel
#
aaronpk
yeah i live in it every day
#
GWG
I'm reliant on Google Calendar because of Android
#
rhiaro
I didn't use it at all, then worked at google for 3 months, and that was that
#
rhiaro
that's how they get you :p
#
tantek
I reject the confines of the default calendar grid
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
aaronpk
i really like the weekly grid view
#
tantek
time is a stream, not a grid
#
KevinMarks_
that's agenda view
#
aaronpk
it's more convenient to be able to see mornings all next to each other
#
rhiaro
I don't just use it for events, I use it for time management in general
#
aaronpk
also i have a lot of multi-day events that span across the top of the week
#
aaronpk
those look terrible in stream views
#
GWG
I'll wait for someone to get an Indieweb version of Google Now
#
rhiaro
seeing time in coloured blocks helps me get a much better feel for how long I have for/between things
#
tantek
aaronpk - for multi day events I add them as all day events for each day
#
KevinMarks_
hm, did my foursquare calendar import break?
#
aaronpk
i manage the airbnb rentals using the weekly view too, I don't know how I'd do that without it
#
rhiaro
I have a printout on my wall with days as coloured in squares to help me feel how long I have until deadlines/trips/etc, too. Without being able to see it all at once I tend to struggle to get a sense of time at all..
#
tantek
aaronpk - ooh a business like that with a resource that needs allocation - perhaps that's a good use-case
#
aaronpk
i have to make sure the cleaner is scheduled between each guest, and gcal is the only place I can see both the bookings and the cleanings
#
KevinMarks_
they have a way to put appointment blocks up for booking too
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
piping in other calendars is very handy
#
GWG
You people are much more organized than I am
#
aaronpk
so anyway it is unlikely I will move away from google calendar any time soon, tho if an equivalent one I could run on my server popped up I could use it
#
aaronpk
luckily iCal files make it easy to send meeting requests between completely separate calendar systems so it's pretty interoperable
#
aaronpk
the problem is google's Inbox is now trying to be smart about auto-adding things to your calendar, like flights when you get flight confirmation emails, and I would lose that moving to something non-gcal
#
tantek
aaronpk: the problem with google calendar is that it does not send a unique user agent when querying ics feeds, and it misunderstands robots no-crawl directives as no-subscribe
#
tantek
gcal subs are broken
#
aaronpk
i dunno if "broken" is the right word...
#
@bengo
FeverDream - Use MicroPub+https://quill.p3k.io/ to post to your WordPress or Tumblr. Nice @kylewmahan! https://feverdream.herokuapp.com/ #indieweb
(twtr.io/yM9SHu28Rb)
#
aaronpk
i have several external ical subscriptions in my gcal and it works pretty well
#
tantek
only because those ical subs don't mind getting pounded by google's spiders
#
tantek
which not all servers (e.g. indie) can handle
#
aaronpk
if they supported PuSH that'd be neat
#
bengo
tantek: Would that proposed <time> parsing assume you had your date time constituents in the same order as the ISO string components?
#
tantek
no - just use the first of each it finds
#
KevinMarks_
maybe becasue my foursquare calendar is 2.6 MB
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: LOL
#
tantek
doesn't want to check how big his foursquare calendar is
#
aaronpk
oh man mine is 2.4mb too
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KevinMarks_
login , go there, you get it in ics
#
aaronpk
i didn't realize that existed so i've been importing my fsq checkins to gcal using an ifttt thingy
#
KevinMarks_
i bet I can kill unmung with ti too
#
loqi.me
created /gcal (+30) "prompted by gRegor` and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
ah the rss isn't the whole thing
#
loqi.me
created /fsq (+23) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
#
loqi.me
created /4sq (+23) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
loqi.me
created /FB (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
how should unmung show georss?
#
tantek
what is georss?
#
dariusdunlap
KevinMarks: Joi was looking for you over on #joiito thsi morning
#
gRegor`
Foursquare has a calendar?
#
tantek
of your past
#
aaronpk
well it's your checkin history in ical format
#
gRegor`
Ohh
#
KevinMarks_
and KML format
#
tantek
what is KML?
#
KevinMarks_
so you can break google earth as well as google calendar
eschnou joined the channel
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KevinMarks_
defers to aaronpk on KML
#
rhiaro
maybe not articulated very well
#
tantek
rhiaro: it wasn't clear at all that "my calendar" meant "my calendar on my personal site"
#
tantek
but rather sounded more like what aaronpk expressed it as - "my calendar app(s)"
#
loqi.me
created /GPlus (+47) "prompted by gRegor` and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
#
Loqi
[mention] https://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2015/04/14/2/vegan posted '“I want to track food because people are always like 'what do vegans even eat?' and then I can just give them a URL.”' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Rhiaro.co.uk
#
aaronpk
KML is an XML format for describing geographic data created for use with Google Earth and now maintained by the Open Geospatial Consortium https://developers.google.com/kml/
#
loqi.me
created /KML (+200) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-14/line/1429039755255 and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
#
tantek
remember the whole checkins vs notes with location debate?
#
tantek
this is an interesting point of view, substitute silo mentions for implied post types:
#
tantek
"It also doesn't make sense why you would use Swarm just to publish your current location when you can use Instagram to take a picture of where you are and geotag it, check-in to wherever you are on Facebook, or use location-based Tweets to let your followers know where you are."
#
loqi.me
created /Google_Hangouts (+21) "prompted by gRegor` and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
#
gregorlove.com
edited /Hangouts (+30) "linkify name"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
instagram's PESATAS is a good example of ui
#
zachdonovan
what is PESATAS?
#
Loqi
PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo https://indiewebcamp.com/PESATAS
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /User:Rhiaro.co.uk (+179) "/* Events */"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
either i"m crazy or tumblr changed their api responses since last night
#
kylewm
last night they were returning status 201 with a Location header
#
kylewm
now they are returning 201 with JSON body and no header
#
tantek
they're onto you
benwerd joined the channel
#
tantek
what's interesting about that quote is it sounds like the user is saying they don't see the point of checkin posts
#
tantek
separate from *doing* something *realtime* at a location like posting a photo or a note
#
rhiaro
I didn't see the point of checkin-only posts for years
#
rhiaro
never got into foursquare
#
tantek
are /checkin posts really an "edge case" kind of thing that only "people in the technology industry really use" ?
#
gregorlove.com
created /Google_Talk (+344) "stub"
(view diff)
#
gregorlove.com
created /GTalk (+25) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek
rhiaro: when a big % of your friends do it (as it happened for me on Dodgeball), then it becomes really good for serendipitous meetups
#
gregorlove.com
created /GChat (+25) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek
and the old Dodgeball txting UI was so simple http://microformats.org/wiki/dodgeball-syntax that it made it very efficient to do so
#
rhiaro
tantek: yeah, I get it in principle now, but I never knew enough people use it
#
tantek
rhiaro: I'd be curious what helped you "get it in principle"
#
rhiaro
and most people I did know to use it just checked into their house all the time
#
rhiaro
tantek: that rationale you just gave
#
rhiaro
meeting people serendipitously
#
rhiaro
occured to me at some point. Though I never actually made use of it
#
tantek
my second use-case is personal tracking where I don't mind if my friends know where I am (and almost feel implicitly connected that they do know)
#
rhiaro
also I've been largely trained not to talk to strangers, so it never seemed like a super good idea
#
tantek
like I have no expectation of anyone showing up there, but just nice to know that some friends may know where I am
#
tantek
third use-case: I use it sometimes for friends-only note publishing - that just happens to happen at a venue
#
rhiaro
personal tracking I definitely get, it was the publishing part I didn't
#
tantek
often times you can get a pretty personal view of "how was your day?" by checking my Swarm feed
bengo joined the channel
#
rhiaro
so if there's a note attached with a location, it's not a checkin-only post to me
#
rhiaro
I just remember seeing one person syndicating foursquare to twitter, and it was a constant stream of "Alex is at home"
#
tantek
rhiaro: in that way, I'm repurposing the "checkin with comment" as a "friends-only note with venue"
#
tantek
right I don't do syndicate 4sq publicly to Twitter (at least not not accidentally :P http://indiewebcamp.com/checkins#Tantek )
#
tantek
rhiaro: I think people go through a "checking into home" phase
#
tantek
eventually you realize it's pretty sad if that's all you have to checkin to
#
tantek
as opposed to, checking in at home to announce hey games night is on - come on over
#
aaronpk
i only check in at home if there's an event there, like i'm hosting a party or something
#
rhiaro
home -> pub -> home -> pub -> home -> pub
#
tantek
rhiaro: well that's transparent at least
#
aaronpk
same with my office
#
tantek
and just like tracking what you eat, maybe it will help alter your habits
#
rhiaro
I will probably check in to cities
#
rhiaro
but likely not narrow it down further
#
KevinMarks_
foursquare is now sending me "people went to X next" notifications
#
rhiaro
without a specific reason
#
KevinMarks_
which is probably cool in NYC, but I get "near starbucks? after starbucks people go to Safeway"
#
tantek
you can Swarm do that for you automatically - the city/neighborhood granularity
#
tantek
and it doesn't show up in your history
#
tantek
hah KevinMarks_ that is funny
#
rhiaro
although there is this one tea shop that if I checked in to every time I was there it would probably be noticeable
#
tantek
realtime checkins work better for serendipity with denser cities
#
tantek
outside of dense cities, there is little to no impact on serendipity
#
KevinMarks_
fb survey's gender popup is Othering
#
rhiaro
ooh also if I publicly checked into places in London I'd definitely get responses from people offended I wasn't meeting up with them while I was around
#
rhiaro
because there are too many people in London and never enough time
#
tantek
rhiaro: the defense against that is to announce a plan when you reach London (e.g. this night here etc.) and then ask people to try to meetup on one of those if they can
#
tantek
turn it from your responsibility into theirs, should they feel so entitled to your presence
#
rhiaro
my london friends are mostly shit. They don't make effort, then complain anyway :p
#
rhiaro
so I alternate between them on every trip, and still don't feel like I see anyone enough
#
dariusdunlap
tantek: I don’t really agree about lower density serendipity. In a dense area, you might come to ignore who’s nearby. But if I see that you’re anywhere in Half Moon Bay, I might drive over to find you.
#
tantek
hence the defense
#
KevinMarks_
yes, when I go to london I do a "pub night" or dinner
#
KevinMarks_
which are often fun, 'cos people show up who should know each other
#
tantek
rhiaro: the announce your own firm plan strategy also is a good filter to see who cares enough to make the effort
#
tantek
then on subsequent trips you can make the effort with them
#
rhiaro
Hm. Maybe I'm projecting. I'm the only one who ever makes an effort, so maybe it's me complaining I don't see them.
#
tantek
what KevinMarks said also
#
tantek
rhiaro: that's right, you need to provide the explicit opportunity for them to make the effort
#
rhiaro
yeah. I'd never see anyone.
#
tantek
dariusdunlap: that's a good point
#
aaronpk
agreed on the density thing, there's a spectrum
#
tantek
when I see faraway 4sq friends show up in SF, I typically alter plans to intercept them
#
aaronpk
working downtown portland there are always people checked in somewhere around me
#
rhiaro
KevinMarks_: what did you mean by "fb survey's gender popup is Othering"?
#
tantek
What is othering?
#
dariusdunlap
I think pre-annnounced intention to be somewhere is an important variation… the KevinMarks_ pub night works best if people hear about it before it’s happening and can plan to show up.
#
KevinMarks_
othering is offering gender options male/female/other, instead of a free text field, making it clear that they are for marketing purposes, not self-expression.
#
loqi.me
created /othering (+186) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-14/line/1429041636104 and dfn added by KevinMarks_"
(view diff)
#
tantek
wow that is a good summary KevinMarks_
#
rhiaro
I filled in two forms today and contacted both of them about their poor gender options
#
rhiaro
one of them was an equality and diversity survey!
#
dariusdunlap
regarding faraway friend… even if they really aren’t that close by. I might drive to Palo Alto or SF, or even Napa… seems like the behavior varies based no many inputs
#
KevinMarks_
yes gRegor, using that term deiberately
#
gRegor`
Just sharing for logs / possible expansion of the page
#
gRegor`
Oh yeah, I've watched that. Good talk :)
#
tantek
another aspect I like about checkins is that in their simplest form, they remove the cogntive load of having to come up with something to say (a note)
#
tantek
just, hey, I'm here at this venue right now.
#
aaronpk
that's the same reason I sometimes post photos with no text
#
KevinMarks_
dariusdunlap: i have had that experience of going to SF to see people from out of town when they visit
#
rhiaro
good also if you're at a busy place and want to find out if other people have arrived yet, and whether to look for them
#
tantek
by making the "note" secondary as a "comment" on the checkin, it also makes it ok to just put something minimal that only makes sense in the context of the checkin
#
KevinMarks_
then they move to SF and I don't see them in 2 years
e-lima joined the channel
#
tantek
like I checkin to the market and might just put a list of what I bought
#
tantek
without any other context
#
tantek
the checkin is still primary, despite there being a text bit that accompanies it
#
KevinMarks_
I also checkin to places when travelling (airports, cafes etc) for future expense report tracking
#
tantek
the checkin makes sense without the text bit, however the text bit does not make sense without the checkin
#
KevinMarks_
and it was very handy when my immigration form needed all my foreign trips for 5 years
#
tantek
"for future expense report tracking" sounds like a subset of "personal tracking"
#
tantek
whoa that *is* handy
#
gRegor`
I check in for the mayorships, but then 4sq/Swarm phased that out.
#
dariusdunlap
Joi, for one. :-)
#
snarfed
gRegor`: re othering, near and dear to my heart. https://snarfed.org/2013-04-02_othering
#
gRegor`
Stickers are still fun though
#
tantek
dariusdunlap: when did Joi move to SF?
#
KevinMarks_
google location history used to give you a handy summary fo trips
#
dariusdunlap
Ha ha, KevinMarks_ - I just saw the second part of that comment. :-)
#
tantek
hmm the checkins page needs some updates
#
dariusdunlap
Sorry, tantek. Just me once again typing before I read the whole stream.
#
KevinMarks_
joi moved to boston
#
dariusdunlap
KevinMarks_ - you saw that Joi was looking for you earlier on #joiito? something about jibot
#
tantek.com
edited /checkin (+182) "move use cases to why to the top, then how, move sessions just above questions"
(view diff)
#
gRegor`
Good post, snarfed. Tangentially,I just listened to an interesting Invisibilia podcast, The Power of Categories. Pretty interesting.
#
gRegor`
(Ask me if it was interesting)
#
gRegor`
goes to drink more coffee
#
snarfed
gRegor`: thanks!
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /bookmark (+111) "/* Why */"
(view diff)
#
tantek
rhiaro: does http://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#Why cover what we just talked about with checkins? or did we come up with new things in our recent IRC discussion above?
#
gRegor`
snarfed: Have you updated your semantic linkbacks plugin since https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/issues/22 ? If so I'll try re-sending the wm
#
rhiaro
tantek: looks like everything is covered
#
snarfed
gRegor`: nope i haven't, sorry
#
rhiaro
tantek: also, if everyone you know checks in to places, you can use it to avoid people :) the anti-social web
#
tantek
rhiaro: that's been mentioned before! please add it! :)
#
rhiaro
ooh or if someone is avoiding you, you can check into somewhere else to lure them into a false sense of security, then find them
#
tantek
checkin chicken?
#
tantek
where *is* benwerd in all this?
#
KevinMarks_
there was an app for that that used foursquare api
#
ben_thatmustbeme
benwerd asked if i supported chickens
#
benwerd
chickens do not get a lot of love in general
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /checkin (+366) "/* Why */"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
s/soo/soon/
#
Loqi
KevinMarks_ meant to say: soon to be a font https://twitter.com/darth/status/588074950487109633
#
tantek
benwerd - speaking of chickens, have you seen Derek Powazek's stream of chick(en) photos?!?
#
benwerd
I have two answers to this
#
gRegor`
snarfed: No worries. In other news, Looks like Bridgy hasn't found this reply tweet yet https://twitter.com/girlvsplanet/status/587735912303329281. Log shows my h-feed was fetched after the original post so I don't think it's the feed being cached. The post was yesterday.
#
benwerd
1. I'm a little concerned that everybody now thinks I'm obsessed with chickens
#
benwerd
2. Wait what where
#
ben_thatmustbeme
better questiion... do you want to?
#
kylewm
is Powazek like, retired?
#
kylewm
<-- taking myself to the off topic
#
snarfed
gRegor`: thanks for the report! filing
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /checkin (+212) "/* Why */"
(view diff)
#
@dissolve333
"#LRT" or "LastReTweet" is terrible UI. Twitter needs repost + comment #IndieWebCamp (btmb.me s/8k) (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/4/14/1/)
(twtr.io/yMFcnb0Rb0)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
very annoying new thing.... "#LRT"
#
rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: aren't the new QTs are RT+comment?
#
rhiaro
which, relatedly, look awful in the android app
#
rhiaro
as they're just links which I am not inclined to click, so I never get the context for peoples comments
#
rhiaro
quote tweets
#
rhiaro
(I just went to my timeline and there was one at the top)
#
KevinMarks_
they show on the android app for me on my phone, but not on the tablet
#
ben_thatmustbeme
how does one quote a tweet?
#
KevinMarks_
because "user interface consistency" is why twitter killed 3rd party clients
#
rhiaro
hit retweet, now there's a 'comment' box
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well then... people need to stop using LRT
#
ben_thatmustbeme
probably why they created it
#
rhiaro
yeah, it's like new as of a few days ago
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i still get #LRT in my feed, and it is absolutely useless
#
ben_thatmustbeme
knew i should have tweeted that last week
#
KevinMarks_
it's not that new - the inline display of linked tweets was there before, they just made an affordance for creating them as replies
#
kylewm
i'm looking forward to a short story told in QTs
#
rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: they're *not* replies
#
rhiaro
this is interesting
#
KevinMarks_
they don't thread
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i didn't say they were
#
rhiaro
sorry I misread and should have addressed that at KevinMarks_
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but you can certainly abuse them as replies
#
ben_thatmustbeme
#breaktwitter
#
tantek
what is an LRT?
#
rhiaro
#subverttwitter
#
gRegor`
They're not replies, but show up in notifications just the same.
#
KevinMarks_
not quite the same
#
@nobantu
Curious about #indieweb ? Check out excellent notes from @kevinmarks #IIW #IIWXX Sessions - written by @dariusdunlap http://iiw.idcommons.net/IndieWeb_Principles_%26_Protocols_to_OWN_YOUR_IDENTITY
(twtr.io/yMGXCb79nj)
#
gRegor`
LRT is an acronym used on Twitter meaning Last Retweet
#
ben_thatmustbeme
also when viewing the tweet you cannot see retweets of it
#
loqi.me
created /LRT (+81) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-14/line/1429044096130 and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
#
gRegor`
Huh?
#
tantek
you mean you cannot see quoted retweets?
#
gRegor`
RT of a QT you mean? (Oy, acronyms :)
#
tantek
yeah that's pretty busted
#
gRegor`
You can see your quoted tweets, yes.
#
gRegor`
They show up in notifications
#
tantek
you can see the RT facepile on QTs you wrote
#
tantek
but the QTs don't show up on the original
#
tantek
There is no "view quotes from this tweet"
#
gRegor`
Ah, right.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
indeed. its a little weird that
#
tantek
or "quoted by" facepile
#
tantek
more like half baked
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@tomwiththeweath
RT @nobantu: Curious about #indieweb ? Check out excellent notes from @kevinmarks #IIW #IIWXX Sessions - written by @dariusdunlap http://t.…
(twtr.io/yMGh8t3nC1)
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tantek
hopefully this is an example of ship early ship often
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ben_thatmustbeme
also not in the analytics of the tweet either
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gRegor`
As a third party, not sure I care to see QTs. As an author, it's handy.
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ben_thatmustbeme
analytics for it shows no retweets
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ben_thatmustbeme
and the only 1 reply (from myself)
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gRegor`
Meaning if I care to see your commentary on someone's tweet, I'd rather see it as a reply
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tantek
gRegor`: as an author, QTs in a stream of notification is not that handy, I want to see them on the tweet permalink
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rhiaro
maybe I'm due an update
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tantek
maybe I'm due a sandwich
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tantek
bbiab
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KevinMarks_
which client?
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: i think you are, mine shows them
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rhiaro
KevinMarks_: default twitter client
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rhiaro
hmm, it isn't offering me an update
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rhiaro
aha, opening the play store triggered it
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rhiaro
I have a backlog of updates seeking my approval, oops
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snarfed
gRegor`: updated my wm plugin, feel free to resend if you want
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: I get the notifications that way
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ben_thatmustbeme
weird, you get notification of it, but not the quote view
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ben_thatmustbeme
notification text must be specified by the server then
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gRegor`
snarfed: Re-sent. No change, unless the page is caching (I think it was last time)
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snarfed
gRegor`: huh. odd. you got a 200, right?
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gRegor`
Yeah
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snarfed
what's your permalink? (hard to discover notes/replies from browsing your site)
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ben_thatmustbeme
need to get bridgy to support QTs too
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, kind of needs twitter to show QTs i suppose
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snarfed
can i politely decline? :P
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snarfed
kidding :P
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snarfed
pull requests welcome!
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gRegor`
snarfed: My permalink? It's on your post, just didn't pull in the content. Might still be a semantic linkbacks bug. http://gregorlove.com/notes/2015/03/22/1/
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ben_thatmustbeme
any time i see that, i am always tempted to fork, delete all, then create a pull request
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ben_thatmustbeme
any time i see "pull requests welcome" just because "not ALL pull requests"
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snarfed
oh that PR would still be welcome
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snarfed
and entertaining
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snarfed
just not merged :P
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gRegor`
haha
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed: not in #indiechat?
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: nope
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gRegor`
That way lie distractions
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ben_thatmustbeme
well... i can come up with some unwelcome pull requests
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snarfed
gRegor`: thanks! weird, it didn't email me. ok, added ot my todo list
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, headed home
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snarfed
gRegor`: ahhhh i was confused, it was an existing comment on a different post. ok. yeah just caching. bane of my existence. cleared that cache item.
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gRegor`
Yay!
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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kylewm
snarfed: are you using the WP caching plugin that had the big security issue last week?
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kylewm
Super Cache iirc
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snarfed
kylewm: yeah. i was already updated when the news broke.
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tantek
what is Super Cache?
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kylewm
aaronpk: +1 your idea to have loqi shorten those wiki links
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Loqi
dude
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tantek
yeah that would make it less noisy in the online logs
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tantek
also less intimidating to click when it's a bunch of query gobbledygook
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tantek
*than when
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aaronpk
i can't even click them in my irc client cause it wraps two lines
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tantek
hmm do we have an IWC short domain yet?
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tantek
per the principle of tying short domains to domains to minimize cross-site maintenance breakage
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tantek
also takes less work because you simply alias/redirect the shortdomain then handle the shortpath on the main site
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aaronpk
shortest related domain i have is indieweb.org
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aaronpk
yeah an indiewebcamp short domain would be better than loqi.me
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aaronpk
I don't think I can get iwc.* on any TLD tho
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kylewm
even just indiewebcamp.com/s/abcd1234 would be fine
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kylewm
doesn't have to be bit.ly short
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aaronpk
okay adding that to the list
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gRegor`
indieweb.camp ?
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aaronpk
i think someone already registered that
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aaronpk
oh it's christophe! I bet he'd let me take it over
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KevinMarks
or is it Sirius Cybernetics? GGP
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KevinMarks
s/GGP/GPP/
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Loqi
KevinMarks meant to say: or is it Sirius Cybernetics? GPP
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KevinMarks
how about a .guide or .help for defintions?
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tantek
KevinMarks you know better than that :P
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tantek
aaronpk benwerd there's a simpler path to "This is the end of email miscommunication."
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tantek
Kevinmarks, you know what works better than .help for help? /help ;)
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GWG
Evening.
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bret
hey GWG
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GWG
Greetings, bret.
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kylewm.com
edited /short-domains (+580) "/* io */ add criticism notes"
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kylewm.com
edited /short-domains (+64) "/* io */"
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tantek.com
edited /checkin (+1232) "/* Why */ explicitly note serendipitous meetup, expand personal logging, why not to checkin"
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