#indiewebcamp 2015-04-25

2015-04-25 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+15) "/* Publishing standards */ u-like-of" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - just realized I have an invalid object-type in my atom feed - /like
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tantek and now I have no idea how to convert my "like" posts into Atom 1.0 - does that mean it is time to give up on Atom 1.0? Or should I just not put my posts there? Or should they just be notes?
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tantek s/not put my posts/not put my like posts
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Loqi tantek meant to say: and now I have no idea how to convert my "like" posts into Atom 1.0 - does that mean it is time to give up on Atom 1.0? Or should I just not put my like posts there? Or should they just be notes?
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tantek kylewm: you were/are consuming my Atom feed is that right?
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kylewm tantek: I was, am not anymore
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tantek well I haven't gotten any bug reports so I suppose it's ok
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tantek maybe I'll leave it in as "non-standard"
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tantek W3C Feed Validator doesn't complain, but also doesn't support Activity Streams http://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Fupdates.atom
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kylewm what were you using that was complaining?
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aaronpk tantek: I would expect to see that "like" post in Atom as a regular entry
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tantek kylewm, View Source on my Atom feed, saw that I had somehow used <object-type xmlns="http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/">http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/like</object-type> and then decided to check the Activity Streams 1.0 spec to see if there was a "like" object-type, noticed there was not (it's a verb in AS1)
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KevinMarks_ what deos unmung see?
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2Fupdates.atom&raw=on
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KevinMarks_ an untitled first item saying 'likes Ryan Barrett’s “Introducing Color Genomics”.'
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tantek with 'object-type': u'http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/like'
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KevinMarks_ for feedparser that's a shrug
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kylewm so activitystreams json it would be {"verb":"like", "object":{"url":"https://snarfed.org/2015-04-21_introducing-color-genomics"}}
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kylewm that doesn't translate to atom xml?
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tantek hmm - maybe I have to add another object? or verb?
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tantek or both?
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kylewm but if nobody consumes it, it's just an exercise in meeting the requirements of a spec?
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KevinMarks_ yay, feedparser now passes the xfn and rel tag tests again
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tantek yeah
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tantek KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 108 karma
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tantek kylewm: I'm assuming that any currently shipping AS2 consumers also consume AS1
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tantek because that would be logical for backward compat
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tantek as well as not that difficult to support
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tantek but I have no evidence
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tantek the last time I tested AS1 consuming - it was with StatusNet
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tantek maybe snarfed would know
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tantek !tell snarfed do you know of any feed reader or other consuming code that consumes Activity Streams 1.0 (Atom/XML) and does something presentationally different with different object-types and verbs?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm this has some examples of follows and reposts http://quitter.se/api/statuses/user_timeline/115649.atom
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KevinMarks_ my changes to mf2py: https://github.com/kevinmarks/mf2py
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KevinMarks_ hm, I should put up a page that runs my version shouldn't I
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tantek KevinMarks: did you spec your changes?
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KevinMarks_ not yet, will do that next
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tantek it wasn't clear from the brainstorming page and the follow-up discussion what you decided to go with
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KevinMarks_ I'll go edit that now
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KevinMarks_ it was easier to code the parser than make exampels by hand
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tantek kylewm: thanks for the example
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tantek well this is pointless: <activity:object-type>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/activity</activity:object-type>
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tantek (from that example)
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kylewm hehe
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kylewm it's interesting how some posts have objects and some *are* the object
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kylewm i'm not deep enough into the AS spec to understand that
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tantek kylewm: it's because the AS spec designers fell in love with the subject-verb-object abstraction, and made everything fit that
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KevinMarks_ over to #microformats for my parsing stuff
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tantek whereas when everything has a permalink, everything is a post, an object, and there's no need for verbs in the model
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KevinMarks_ we need to check that against the existing big activity stream users at some point
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tantek who are they?
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+72) "create explicit IndieWeb Examples section, and Silo Examples, note AS1.0/Atom examples" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks - the top level "urls" key is misleading
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tantek oops wrong channel
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kylewm gnu social isn't a silo is it, tantek?
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kylewm (i.e. quitter.se)
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tantek what is GNU Social?
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Loqi GNU social is an free software project that "will be a decentralized social network that you can install on your own server" https://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social
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tantek right, GNU Social is software, quitter.se is silo that uses it (right?)
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kylewm.com edited /ActivityStreams (+86) "/* Silo Examples */ add JSON feed" (view diff)
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kylewm I don't think it has much in common with a silo, it's non-profit, federated, interoperates with other sites that publish or consume Atom
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tantek what is a commons?
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Loqi A commons (plural: https://indiewebcamp.com/commons
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tantek sigh
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rhiaro Isn't GNU Social a monoculture?
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rhiaro http://federation.skilledtests.com/select_your_server.html
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tantek.com edited /commons (-18) "fix summary" (view diff)
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tantek let's try that again
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tantek what is a commons?
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Loqi A commons is a centralized web content hosting site, where users are able to freely contribute content, and easily retrieve it, typically each others' content as well https://indiewebcamp.com/commons
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tantek sounds closer to a commons kylewm - good point
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kylewm rhiaro: yes to monoculture
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+69) "/* Silo Examples */ Commons examples" (view diff)
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rhiaro oh I see, multiple types
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KevinMarks_ big users of activity streams would be gnip and echo
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tantek What is Gnip?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Gnip" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Gnip&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-24%2Fline%2F1429925614884
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tantek What is Echo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Echo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Echo&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-24%2Fline%2F1429925617637
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rhiaro KevinMarks_: and pumpio / mediagoblin (or did you already have this part of the conversation)?
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KevinMarks_ gnip is a social data broker, now owned by twitter see gnip.com they us Activity Streams as their internal format see http://support.gnip.com/articles/activity-streams-intro.html
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loqi.me created /gnip (+205) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-24/line/1429925614884 and dfn added by KevinMarks_" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks_ Echo is a social data broker, see http://www.echostudio.co/
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loqi.me created /Echo (+86) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-24/line/1429925617637 and dfn added by KevinMarks_" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks_ example: http://demos.echostudio.co/projects/#!20b3mm0r5x
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tantek kevinmarks "social data broker" sounds like marketing
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tantek brokers usually help buy / sell stuff
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tantek I don't really see any of that here
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KevinMarks_ they buy data from twitter/fb etc and sell it to companies
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tantek huh
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tantek rhiaro: are GNU Social instances only interested in interoperating with other instances?
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rhiaro tantek: I don't know for sure, that's the impression I got from "a social network you can install"
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rhiaro (as opposed to say, "a protocol you can implement")
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rhiaro I think some might have bridging
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tantek rhiaro: could you document that and ( http://federation.skilledtests.com/select_your_server.html ) on http://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social ? maybe in a Criticism / Monoculture subsection?
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rhiaro did status.net interoperate with other systems?
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rhiaro there's GNU FM too which "federates" with last.fm but I can't see anything about that interoperating with GNU Social, hmm
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rhiaro right, well various different GNU Social sites seem to look different. I wonder how deep it goes.
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rhiaro "It is possible for a GNU social user (e.g., on quitter.se) to subscribe to a feed (e.g., tantek.com) by manuallly visiting the URL" <- well that's not so bad
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tantek wait really? does someone have that working?
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rhiaro I just read that in iwc wiki
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rhiaro assumed you wrote it
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tantek I don't think so?
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rhiaro http://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social
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tantek because I would have provided links to support that
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rhiaro http://quitter.se/main/ostatussub?profile=http://tantek.com
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rhiaro ^ behind a login
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tantek darn
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rhiaro also says it has microformats
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rhiaro sounds interoppy
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rhiaro adds to list of things to play with
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KevinMarks_ hmm http://demos.echostudio.co/projects/#!wnaezymzbs
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kylewm (I wrote that bit about subcribing to tantek.com on quitter)
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kylewm it seems to be mostly broken now though, I can still subscribe to tantek.com but cannot see any updates from him
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kylewm and even at the time i think I had to look at the source to find that ostatussub url
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tantek kylewm: maybe that's my fault?
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tantek i.e. the unknown object-type
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kylewm impossible to know
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tantek no error message?
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kylewm nope
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kylewm and I can't see any updates from my atom feed either
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kylewm although it's even more likely to be broken :p
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tantek sigh
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kylewm if someone is interested, I woudl recommend trying with a more vanilla version of GNU Social -- quitter.se is highly customized to look like twitter
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tantek kylewm: can you document the failure at least on the page?
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tantek either on the /AS page or on /Quitter.se - your choice
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kylewm heading out the door, but i will document it tonight
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tantek thanks
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@AllinNigeria VoiceOfIndie: Arts alive in Nigeria! http://t.co/NsNBx9ByjP; RT/Support Jinlobify #RaveReviewsBookClub #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/VoiceOfIndie/status/591797866395369472 (twitter.com/_/status/591801843208069120)
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tantek for now I've turned my like posts into just "notes" in my Atom AS 1.0 because I don't know of any AS 1.0 Atom consumers that do anything with a "like" that I can test :/
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+24) "/* Feeds */ likes are also just "notes" in the AS1 output" (view diff)
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@W6AZ Dave Winer's MyWord Editor - A community of #silo-free bloggers built around it? #indieweb http://myword.io/users/W6AZ/essays/016.html https://twitter.com/W6AZ/status/591820506220789761/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/591820506220789761)
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@kevinmarks @W6AZ see http://myword.io/users/kevinmarks/essays/09.html for my attempt to connect it to the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591830883482513409)
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic the indieweb work is mostly public by default, but there is some thought and experimentation http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts (twitter.com/_/status/591833133013606400)
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic the vouch extension to webmention may make sense too. http://indiewebcamp.com/Vouch (twitter.com/_/status/591833625932353536)
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic selective visibility is tricky across domains but webmention should mean that if you send a hidden post the receiver won't see it (twitter.com/_/status/591848808432041984)
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kylewm oh snap, a post on my website is showing up natively in quitter now
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tantek what did you do to fix it?
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kylewm nothing
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kylewm i just went to look and its there suddenly
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kylewm possibly because it was a new post since i was playing around with it
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tantek heisenbug?
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tantek not that it should matter, but I did "fix" my AS Atom feed to use "note" as the object type for my like posts, since it's not obvious how to minimally construct an AS Atom like (with verb)
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kylewm next time you post an update, I'll check whether it pulls it in
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tantek ok I'll post something
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/04/homebrew-website-club-2 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek kylewm: I posted a reply. next I'll post a like
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+168) "/* Where */ CreamerySF" (view diff)
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tantek like posted
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (+63) "/* URLs */ add SF events" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-06-homebrew-website-club (-7) "/* RSVP */ add me" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: I had accidentally unfollowed you earlier so I didn't get the first post, but the like showed up!!
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tantek what did it show up like? (no pun intended)
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kylewm taking screenshot
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tantek that sounds like it showed up in near realtime then!
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tantek note that I am sending PuSH notifications for *both* my AS Atom feed and my home page h-feed
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kylewm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/gnu-social-interop.png
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kylewm it's really cool how it preserves the link
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tantek kylewm here goes a realtime test
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kylewm hasn't showed up in quitter yet...
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tantek sorry haven't pushed the pub button yet
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tantek ready?
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kylewm ha, yes
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@t Everyone at Homebrew Website Club SF/PDX/NYC this week was ok with @IndieWebCamp July 11-12. Mark your calendars! (ttk.me t4aq1) (twitter.com/_/status/591861367415525376)
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tantek go
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kylewm haha yeah it worked!
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tantek < 1 min?
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kylewm oh yeah like seconds
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tantek sweet! yay! alright, that's good enough reason to keep maintaining my AS1 Atom feed + PuSH 0.3.
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Loqi woot
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tantek good enough interop :)
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kylewm yeah, i am pleasantly surprised/impressed
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tantek that definitely deserves updated documentation
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kylewm going to requeet you
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tantek lol
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tantek what is requeet?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "requeet" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=requeet&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-25%2Fline%2F1429945971968
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tantek (saw that coming)
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kylewm :)
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kylewm I think they thought better of calling them queets -- it says "Repeated by ... " now
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tantek can you link to a public permalink of it?
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tantek of this cross-site repost?
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tantek probably a good example to capture
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kylewm https://quitter.se/notice/3667716
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tantek hmm js required
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kylewm that's actually the permalink of the (re)post itself
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tantek exactly!
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kylewm I'm not totally sure what this is
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kylewm I guess it is equivalent to a single-post view in woodwind
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kylewm will only work if logged in -- http://reader.kylewm.com/?entry=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2015%2F115%2Ft1%2Findiewebcamp-on
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tantek.com edited /repost (+206) "Commons Examples / quitter" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic looking at quirell, it would be pretty easy to make it indieweb friendly. Mind if I try? (twitter.com/_/status/591864279931850752)
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fkooman hmm quill has a http redirect URI, that is not good :(
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kylewm tantek: sorry if this was already clear -- your note gets its own permalink page on quitter even if I don't repost it, e.g. https://quitter.se/notice/3667699
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tantek fascinating - just because you're subscribed to me?
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kylewm fkooman: http redirects to https, that's bad?
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fkooman kylewm, for one, it allows for mitm :)
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fkooman i mean, i access quill over https, then it redirects to indiecert to authenticate, but in the auth request it specifies a http://quill... redirect_uri query parameter
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fkooman that is wrong
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fkooman monocle work fine...
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kylewm ohh, yes that's bad
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tantek oh oops - sounds like an oversight
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tantek especially since you *started* with an https access of quill
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fkooman exactly :)
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tantek good catch! might want to !tell aaronpk that
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tantek kylewm: does quitter have a POSSE copy of all my posts then?
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fkooman !tell aaronpk quill has a http URL as redirect_uri parameter to the authorization_endpoint :(
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm I'm curious if it will have a copy of them going forward, it didn't have the old ones even though I had been subscribed to you for > a year
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tantek I wonder if you had to have your browser open to it
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kylewm we'll see i guess
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kylewm heading to bed, good night all!
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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fkooman hmmm...why does ownyourgram require instagram?
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tantek I suppose if I were using my own hub or aaronpk's hub perhaps it could tell if/when quitter retrieved the post
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tantek fkooman: it's the whole point of ownyourgram
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fkooman oh haha :-)
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fkooman read now the description :o :)
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fkooman at least the login works :-)
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tantek night kylewm !
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tantek KevinMarks++ for https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/591864279931850752
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic looking at quirell, it would be pretty easy to make it indieweb friendly. Mind if I try? (twitter.com/_/status/591864279931850752)
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@srbanister Der @diplix inspiriert mich gerade mit seinem #IndieWeb - Blogpost: Dein Feedback auf meine Inhalte gehört zu mir https://www.dirkmurschall.de/blog/dein-feedback-auf-meine-inhalte-gehoert-zu-mir/ (twitter.com/_/status/591870565461401600)
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tantek.com edited /2015/ (+9) "main indiewebcamp date is set!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+1581) "date is set, start setting up the page, move candidate dates to bottom as historical documentation" (view diff)
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@Ironsoup @t Doesn't anyone care about <TITLE>s? Too many uninformative; obfuscated. Manually editing after +bookmark'ing sucks. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/591872940662099968)
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tantek huh?
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tantek maybe it's bookmarking that's broken :P
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+1204) "/* IndieWebCamp 2015 */ add more sections from the 2014 home page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+16) "IWC 2015 is planned, move it up to the first half" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+2) "br" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+3) "MA" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+3624) "add next 3 month's HWC meetups, July IndieWebCamps" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ well, <title> has been abused by SEO types
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tantek.com created /2015/Guest_List (+5961) "copy from 2014 and update" (view diff)
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tantek and we have a 2015 Guest List setup with so far co-organizers aaronpk and mysefl
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tantek go forth and add yourselves!
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+19) "category 2015" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks - you going to be able to make it to IWC 2015 July 11-12 in Portland? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List#Creators
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tantek rhiaro: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh says "Once we've confirmed the dates and venue" - but you've confirmed the dates right?
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tantek and do you have a venue confirmed too?
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KevinMarks_ I think so, yes
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KevinMarks_ that weekend is free fro me at the moment
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tantek great! lock it down :)
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@obiwankimberly RT @t: Everyone at Homebrew Website Club SF/PDX/NYC this week was ok with @IndieWebCamp July 11-12. Mark your calendars! (ttk.me t4aq1) (twitter.com/_/status/591917331212869632)
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KevinMarks_ indiewebifying quirell https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell/issues/174
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KevinMarks_ I even used acegiak's pronoun markup
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ben_thatmustbeme :/ gitlab has links to your own profile as rel=nofollow ... no "me" rel in there
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks_: have you started working on the code to quirell yet?
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ben_thatmustbeme :( still tons of leftover dead connections in here
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ben_thatmustbeme i had found a fix for aaronpk at one point
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ben_test2 excellent
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ben_test3 test
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ben_thatmustbeme can't get streaming logs up and running to test on my machine
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ben_thatmustbeme getting closer
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, that works!
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test_ben tests
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KevinMarks_ ben_thatmustbeme: I forked the code to get that up, yes, but I haven't used gitlab before so haven't made a pull request yet
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kylewm hmm, so fkooman made the point yesterday that indieauthing with http://tuxed.net/ is not equivalent to indieauthing with https://tuxed.net/
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kylewm but they are the same as far as indiewebcamp.com is concerned
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kylewm I'm thinking of making them two totally separate accounts in woodwind
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KevinMarks_ is this what timbl was worrying about?
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@mivesto RT @elfpavlik: "Implicit vs explicit object types" by @rhiaro http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types see: [#hEntry #Activity] cc: [#IndieWeb #ActivityStrea… (twitter.com/_/status/591993792170962944)
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KevinMarks_ http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Security-NotTheS.html
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kylewm sheesh yeah that would be nice
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@srbanister Ich spiele in diesen Tagen mit Webmentions rum. Kann sein, dass sich mein Postingverhalten etwas ändert. (twitter.com/_/status/591999414656446464)
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fkooman KevinMarks_, kylewm and this: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Security-ClientCerts.html
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kylewm hmm, indieauth strips the trailing /, is that a problem?
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tantek KevinMarks: it is one instance of the problems TimBL was talking about yes.
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tantek kylewm: if the http version redirects to https - then only use the https version as the one account - in both cases
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kylewm tantek: if I log in to indieauth with http://kylewm.com, it will return me=http://kylewm.com, even though http redirects to https
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tantek then that's a bug in indieauth we should get fixed
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kylewm and I think that's the right thing to do -- since someone could mitm my http:// site and redirect it somewhere bad
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tantek no the redirect destination is what should be used as the identity, not the original
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tantek so if they redirect it somewhere bad, that's revealed as their identity
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kylewm ah right ok
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tantek if someone implements level 5 https://indiewebcamp.com/https#Level_5_security then auth services should respect that.
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tantek kylewm: re: strips the trailing /, is that a problem? - not for a domain identity
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kylewm tantek: so would you say that http://kylewm.com is the same identity as https://kylewm.com?
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kylewm like authing with one should give you the other?
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tantek not in general, only in the http->https upgrade direction
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tantek per level 5 https
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kylewm cool
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kylewm ah, already an issue https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/73
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kylewm not actually sure if that's the same issue
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1351) "quote posts - including figuring out display and markup for" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+239) "/* Legacy support */ recently verified consuming support for AS Atom + PuSH feature" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Take a look at @heathr's Tweet: https://twitter.com/heathr/status/592015135872405504?s=09
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@heathr @ElisaC the web felt clearly like it was about *people*. Lots of early women inc @dooce. Early blogging (pre-blogging software) was v human (twitter.com/_/status/592015135872405504)
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: fkooman left you a message 10 hours, 2 minutes ago: quill has a http URL as redirect_uri parameter to the authorization_endpoint :( http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-25/line/1429946764865
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ben_thatmustbeme morning
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aaronpk fkooman: thanks! good catch
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i started working on some of the issues on the webchat
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aaronpk oh?
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ben_thatmustbeme i am having some trouble setting it up entirely, i got the UI up but don't have the websockets bit figured out. but I believe I found the issue with /me
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aaronpk oh cool
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ben_thatmustbeme i also have some code I found that should take care of the dead connections issue
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aaronpk oh awesome, i never did figure out what was up with that
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ben_thatmustbeme i had sent you a link to some code fix, but i never put it in github
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ben_thatmustbeme so i'll be getting around to that bit
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ben_thatmustbeme like i said, I have the viewer working, but I had to hardcode wss://indiewebcamp.com for where to connect the sockets to
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ben_thatmustbeme is it a node server running the other end?
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ben_thatmustbeme just got back from the dentist so i was rushing through some of the set up this morning
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, no, i'd have to just leave that part, thats using loqi isn't it
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Loqi dude
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aaronpk oh yeah if you're not running your own node websockets server you could use the indiewebcamp one
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Remember Indiewebcamp Online?
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GWG I keep thinking of trying ab HWC online to try to build interest for more physical ones.
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aaronpk fkooman: fixed the quill redirect uri issue! thanks
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KevinMarks Oh, if you want to try my quirrel instance, the number of kittens is "one"
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fkooman aaronpk, cool, thanks!
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aaronpk tantek: kylewm: for the http://kylewm.com/ vs https://kylewm.com/ issue ( http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-25/line/1429979768632 ) i explicitly made it use the entered URL as the identity
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fkooman aaronpk, i can login to quill now with indiecert :)
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aaronpk here's a real example of why that's important: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/19
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aaronpk fkooman: awesome!
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks. that is the most random quote i've seen today (if taken out of context)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: I may have to run my own node instance. i don't think i can really debug the other parts without that
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ben_thatmustbeme everything in /streaming/ is the node isn't it?
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tantek aaronpk - then do you consider http vs https as different identities?
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aaronpk yeah, are you familar with running node stuff?
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ben_thatmustbeme i can run them, just always started some description of how to run it
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aaronpk tantek: indieauth.com does, but the apps like quill or teacup actually handle it inconsistently now that I look
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aaronpk quill uses the full URL that it gets as the identity, but teacup uses just the domain part
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tantek the wiki for example only uses the domain / path
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aaronpk I guess we need to be more explicit about this
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ben_thatmustbeme i use the domain
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tantek at least document the range of behavior and what are considered better/best practices
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ben_thatmustbeme so http and https are the same
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ben_thatmustbeme biggest reason for that, is people who up from http to https don't look like a new person everywhere
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aaronpk right, that's a good reason for wanting to combine the http and https identities
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tantek yeah - there are some odd exceptions like forbes.com (try it with http vs. https)
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aaronpk the thing i'm struggling with conceptually is that http identities can't really be treated as secure at all, so maybe apps just shouldn't allow non-https logins at all
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aaronpk except in practice that would create a huge barrier
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tantek that would cut off a lot of people :/
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i don't think we could do that
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe a slight nudge of "hey you really aren't secure"
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GWG Can you require an extra step with http vs https?
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aaronpk right, so in practice we end up with people starting off with http, then adding https and not wanting every app to consider that a new account
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fkooman aaronpk, if you post using quill and the micropub endpoint sends a 301 with a location header, quill thinks the post was successful :)
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aaronpk fkooman: that's correct
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aaronpk oh wait no that should be 201
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fkooman exactly :-)
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kylewm yeah actually that tripped me up ^
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aaronpk oops, it must be looking for just the location header
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fkooman it should probably follow 3xx redirects first :-)
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aaronpk you can't follow 3xx redirects for post
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ben_test tests
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fkooman can't or shouldn't? :)
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aaronpk well browsers don't, and i believe the http spec says you shouldn't
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tantek note that SHOULD in that context really does mean you can't unless you have some really exceptional reason
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fkooman but I actually agree, so I'll fix that :)
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ben_test2 tests emotes with multiple words
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ben_thatmustbeme :D
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ben_thatmustbeme my fix works aaronpk... send a pull request
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aaronpk nice!
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ben_thatmustbeme it should be pretty easy to get notifications works too.. way toying with that this morning
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aaronpk !!
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tantek last night I setup the Guest List page for IndieWebCamp 2015 - so far it's just aaronpk and me - so go sign-up! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List
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GWG aaronpk: Is there a downside to, once someone moves to https, no longer allowing http?
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GWG tantek: Which venues are confirmed?
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aaronpk GWG: that seems reasonable, just requires a lot more code and edge case handling
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tantek GWG, just Portland
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kylewm aaronpk: re: redirects, what about the situation where someone intercepts http://kylewm.com and redirects it to http://badactor.com, then they could login as kylewm.com?
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tantek so far
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ben_thatmustbeme wow... drugs from dentist mess with my typing apparently... just saw all the typos i made
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Loqi [mention] yatil posted 'On May 9th, I’ll attend the IndieWebCamp Germany in Düsseldorf. It is part of the beyond tellerrand week which I will miss as I am leaving f...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/ (https://yatil.net/attending-indiewebcamp-germany-2015/)
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@yatil Attending IndieWebCamp Germany 2015 https://yatil.net/?p=101607 (twitter.com/_/status/592029240360501249)
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Loqi [mention] yatil posted 'On May 9th, I’ll attend the IndieWebCamp Germany in Düsseldorf. It is part of the beyond tellerrand week which I will miss as I am leaving f...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (https://yatil.net/attending-indiewebcamp-germany-2015/)
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+21) "/* Candidate Cities */ move Portland to confirmed, take myself off organizing other cities" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+368) "/* Creators */ RSVP, yay!" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: Maybe I'll see about getting to Portland this time. I've never been.
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tantek GWG, for other cities, see and add to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Candidate_Cities especially if you want to make another city happen, step up to help co-organize.
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tantek GWG, that would be great too!
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GWG I think in NYC right now, I'll focus on HWC.
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tantek good call
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aaronpk tantek: maybe we can move all the candidate date stuf to a sub-page like 2015/planning to de-clutter the main 2015 page?
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tantek it's a mix aaronpk
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tantek because date is set so I moved that to the bottom
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GWG tantek: I was also pondering trying an online HWC. But afraid it might defeat the point.
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tantek however, I left candidate cities near the top so other cities could organize
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tantek GWG, yeah - online HWC does defeat the point a bit - we have that nearly 24x7 with just IRC :)
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GWG tantek: My thought on it was to attract people who don't come to irc.
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GWG I could always do something crazy.
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tantek off to go for a walk, get groceries and think more about /quote posts. Wrote up my "Working On" thoughts here in case anyone wants to edit/contribute: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#quote_posts
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snarfed hey GWG have you played with the 4.2 press this at all?
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message on 4/24 at 5:51pm: do you know of any feed reader or other consuming code that consumes Activity Streams 1.0 (Atom/XML) and does something presentationally different with different object-types and verbs? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-24/line/1429923075938
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ben_thatmustbeme args: [ '*', '[object', 'HTMLInputElement]', 'Erroneous Nickname' ] well that isn't right
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, oh yesh, thats better
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GWG Snarfed: Yes. But I still am writing my own. It is a great improvement though, isn't it?
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh ben_notify, are you getting notifications now?
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ben_notify darn, guess not
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GWG snarfed: What do you think?
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snarfed GWG: not sure, i haven't really dug in much yet
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh ben_notify2, are you getting notifications NOW?
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snarfed i only use it for posting indie replies (likes etc), so i'm just annoyed i have to port…and i have a sinking feeling it doesn't support direct HTML any more…but meh
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GWG snarfed: Want to consider signing on to my solution?
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ben_thatmustbeme try this one most ben_notify
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ben_thatmustbeme try this one most ben_notify
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GWG When it is more ready?
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ben_thatmustbeme try this one most ben_notify2
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snarfed GWG: sure! will yours support a bookmarklet for auto-populating indie reply, like, etc markup based on the current page?
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snarfed that's my sole use case
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry for all the spammy guys, ben_notify2
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ben_notify2 gah
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GWG snarfed: It already supports a bookmarklet.
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snarfed GWG: and the rest of my q? :P
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, a notification of the actual html... not so helpful... and probably don't want to get noficiations of my own messages
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ben_thatmustbeme but its working otherwise
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GWG Since I mark up on the fly and you mark up during creation, not yet. But I intend to support an unkind use case.
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snarfed !tell tantek: re consuming AS1, obligatory answer, https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial does: when you use it to publish to silos, it determines the action to publish based on the verb/object type. otherwise, i don't actually follow the AS community, so i'm pretty useless. maybe try bengo?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG I am storing the data in post meta either way.
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GWG snarfed: You should recognize some of the code. I borrowed liberally from the micropub and webmention plugins.
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snarfed nice!
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GWG Except it uses the Wordpress auth, and if you don't send in a URL, it generates a form to fill.
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GWG snarfed: It also has pfefferle's webactions codr, and I hope to add the work on URL handlers done at IWC UK last year.
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GWG Hoping for a complete solution.
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ben_thatmustbeme test message to ben_notify
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ben_notify dang, something wrong with my regex
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ben_thatmustbeme i will get this notifications bit working eventually
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: We're all rooting for you
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ben_thatmustbeme it sends the text back already marked up, so i'll have to strip it out
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ben_thatmustbeme i can't finish it up now anyway
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tantek Loqi, playback
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 32 minutes ago: re consuming AS1, obligatory answer, https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial does: when you use it to publish to silos, it determines the action to publish based on the verb/object type. otherwise, i don't actually follow the AS community, so i'm pretty useless. maybe try bengo? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-25/line/1429987382294
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tantek hmm - looked at that and couldn't find a way to feed it an AS1 Atom URL and get sample output (what would be published to a silo if it were doing so)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Germany (+169) "add Indie Event URL" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: checking indie event post presentation, e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/19/1/indiewebcamp - is the duplicate (image attending) "is attending" text (or not attending) deliberate? or is that reply text coming from Bridgy?
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aaronpk That text is coming from Bridgy
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aaronpk The same way text from an indie site would come through
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tantek I thought we figured this out a few weeks ago
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aaronpk I don't remember that conversation
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tantek it was primarily with kylewm IIRC
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aaronpk I may have been traveling too
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tantek.com edited /event (+222) "/* Kyle Mahan */ note newer example with de-dupped display of RSVP status for Bridgy responses" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - looks like kylewm has made it work recently https://kylewm.com/2015/04/homebrew-website-club-1 - though older events still have the duplicate, e.g. https://kylewm.com/2014/12/homebrew-website-club-17-december-2014
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tantek aaronpk: since an RSVP is also a reply, the receiving site needs to know how to distinguish between default reply text and actual reply content. I think we settled on p-summary as the place for fallback information for replies in general
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tantek i.e. if the receiving site does not understand the "special" reply (e.g. RSVP), it will do the right thing by using the p-summary
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tantek whereas for *special* replies (e.g. RSVP), the receiver should use the RSVP information, and then only add reply commentary if there is some in the content
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tantek kylewm - do you recall when we had this conversation? because clearly you fixed/changed something in your Indie Event RSVP receiving/display code.
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+555) "/* IndieWebCamp */ note more 2015 IndieWebCamps coming up!" (view diff)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: tantek: re a-u, you're right, it doesn't have a built in publish preview UI. it's primarily a library. bridgy publish/preview uses it directly though, so you can look at that
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tantek but bridgy publish only consumes permalinks to posts right? not feed file URLs?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: bridgy, yes. a-u also consumes AS JSON/XML
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Loqi slack/snarfed: (and outputs atom but doesn't consume it)
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tantek interesing, then I'm confused about what Bridgy Publish actually *publishes* because I thought it only published a single post (by design)
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tantek what does feeding it a feed do?
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tantek use the most recent entry in the feed?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: sorry, I'm being unclear. you're right about bridgy. I'm talking about the a-u library
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tantek one of the challenges I have found with AS1/Atom (and frankly JSON) is that there are insufficient *simple* / minimal publishing examples
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tantek makes me realize all our "How to markup" sections should start with the simplest possible markup, with maybe a few variants, and only incrementally show how to do more complex things
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tantek like there is no simple/minimal AS1/Atom (or JSON) "like" post example anywhere AFAIK
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snarfed examples weren't the primary use case for these, but you might be interested: https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/tree/master/testdata
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:iwc-cambridge-2015.jpg]]""
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+1706) "copy IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2015 from home page to here" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+27) "/* IndieWebCamp */ ID" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-66) "/* IndieWebCamp */ -ID already had one, dedup "next" & h-event container, move p-name summary markup to after heading" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - I've taken care of copying the home page next IWC section to the /IndieWebCamps archive - go ahead and update it for /2015/Germany : https://indiewebcamp.com/#next
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tantek.com edited /2015 (+205) "add Indie Event placeholder, Lanyrd" (view diff)
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tantek really pleased with how well lanyrd works without JS
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tantek Lanyrd++
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Loqi Lanyrd has 1 karma
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tantek speaking of - Lanyrd URL for IWC 2015 is up: http://lanyrd.com/2015/indiewebcamp/
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tantek what is Lanyrd?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Lanyrd" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Lanyrd&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-25%2Fline%2F1429992801342
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tantek wat
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werd.io edited /2015/Guest_List (+344) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Lanyrd (+137) "stub with dfn, URL, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Lanyrd (+183) "POSSE to, link to Bridgy feature request" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Lanyrd (+220) "Backfeed from - no one so far, note Bridgy backfeed feature request" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+274) "/* POSSE */ Lanyrd" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: could you post an indie event for https://indiewebcamp.com/2015 and FB POSSE copy? If Redwind allows for it, note also the Lanyrd copy: http://lanyrd.com/2015/indiewebcamp/
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fkooman aaronpk, can you clean the micropub location cache of quill? i moved the endpoint and now the old one is still used :(
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fkooman aaronpk, oops, my bad :)
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Loqi [mention] http://adamcroom.com/2015/04/reflecting-on-et4online-2015/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/principles (pingback)
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almereyda (00:07:36) Jon: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Nepal_earthquake
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almereyda (00:07:41) Jon: http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/2015-nepal-earthquake_37675#9/28.2572/85.1413
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almereyda (00:07:46) Jon: http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/994
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tantek that adamrcoom link is js;dr. also tried it with JS on, and got this error:
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tantek "Failed to load resource: https://.… jquery … An SSL error has occurred and a secure connection to the server cannot be made."
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tantek js required = your content is fragile and can fail to show for many reasons, not just because the user has JS off
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