#indiewebcamp 2015-04-27

2015-04-27 UTC
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rhiaro who has lists of contacts/people/followers/following or is interested in posts about following/followers? I added a bunch of brainstormy stuff to /follows ^ (cc hmans, ben_thatmustbeme as people who already have such lists)
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acegiak rhiaro: I use my blogroll as a list of people I'm following for whisperfollow
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GWG acegiak: I think Blogroll went out because it is a site, as opposed to person-centric way of thinking o these.
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GWG Also, I used to find long lists of links down the side of someone's site to not be the best way to consume recommendations
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rhiaro acegiak: cool - can you add to the wiki page? Is it marked up with mf?
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acegiak rhiaro: just realised that it's not since I changed theme. will need to fix that
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acegiak GWG: Often I want to follow a site rather than a person?
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rhiaro acegiak: ah I found it
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rhiaro acegiak: what reader do you use?
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rhiaro GWG: yeah, sometimes a person has multiple sites/feeds you can follow, or a site != person necessarily
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rhiaro I think this distinction is still being hammered out around these parts though
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rhiaro would love to gather thoughts on that wiki page :)
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acegiak rhiaro: I'm using whisperfollow which is my wordpress based reader. I /think/ I'm the only one using it currently
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acegiak looks like this: http://machinespirit.itch.io/amygdala
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acegiak really clipboard?
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acegiak http://acegiak.net/2015/02/18/updated-walkthrough-of-my-indieweb-readerresponse-ux/
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acegiak that's better
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rhiaro lol
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GWG acegiak: Sorry about that. How would mf2_s mark up the blogroll?
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GWG rhiaro: I don't think it is 100%. I'm just saying why it sort of faded.
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rhiaro I'm currently thinking about how a list of followers would be useful for switching between readers
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aaronpk totally
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aaronpk the prototype indieweb reader that benwerd and emmak and I made at IWC 2014 pulled the "following" list from your own website
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rhiaro aaronpk: awesome!
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aaronpk turns out that's a pretty big hurdle to actually using a reader tho
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rhiaro also beyond that, how follow posts could be useful for keeping track of when (and possibly why with an added note) you follow (or unfollowed) someone
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rhiaro I'm just implementing follow posts atm
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GWG People wanting to use readers are a minority though.
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acegiak gwg: I would probably mark it up with basic h-card by default
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rhiaro aaronpk: adding manually or having the option to pull from sites would be cool
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aaronpk rhiaro: ooooo cool
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acegiak GWG: are they?
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acegiak GWG: I feel like socially aggregating readers are THE killer feature of most silos
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GWG acegiak: The old inbox style of readers, yes.
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GWG acegiak: The new philosophy seems to be streams.
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rhiaro I'm going for x-u-follow-of class. If anyone has any advance on that I'd be pleased to hear it
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GWG Where you dip your toe in, and possibly miss things
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rhiaro GWG: is the main difference there it doesn't keep track of what you've read?
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GWG rhiaro: Where you left off
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GWG So, yes.
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rhiaro (or at least, tell you it's keeping track of what you read, because obviously the silos all do)
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acegiak ok, I call whisperfollow a reader but yeah, it operates like that
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acegiak as in, latest first
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GWG I work about 33% of the time, and sleep another 33%. I don't want to miss interesting things that occur during those periods.
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rhiaro yeah I think all the indieweb readers are like that atm?
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acegiak GWG: oh, right!
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rhiaro twitter kind of tells you where you left off, depending on how well your chosen interface is behaving on that day
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rhiaro the android app at least seems to attempt to open up where you last had it in the stream
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rhiaro sometimes..
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acegiak GWG: I've been trying to work out a way for for whisperfollow to have some of the things I follow be marked as important so that when I come to whisperfollow it makes sure to tell me and then I can dismiss them
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GWG The issue is value
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GWG The way silos do their streams is that social signaling moves things to surface outside of normal time order.
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GWG So, how do you replicate that?
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aaronpk facebook does that, but twitter doesn't. twitter is still time-ordered except for promoted tweets
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aaronpk also it remains to be seen whether that is actually an effective mechanism
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GWG aaronpk: Haven't you heard about Highlights
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acegiak GWG: yeah, I hate the filter bubble that creates when it's done through algorithmic value assessment
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GWG https://blog.twitter.com/2015/highlighting-the-best-of-twitter-for-you
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acegiak GWG: so I have no plans to add that to whisperfollow in the immediate future
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GWG I read everything I can
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GWG So I'm not the test case for sourcing that
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GWG I'm the one who complained about no Twitter client that would effectively keep my place
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acegiak but I use whisperfollow for subscribing to podcasts where I don't want to miss episodes so I'd like to manually mark certain streams as priority
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rhiaro yeah, I hate the silo-curation of streams
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rhiaro mostly on principle
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rhiaro I don't actually know if it's useful or not
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rhiaro I'd also like to be able to mark certain feeds/people as more important
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acegiak at the moment though I just use whisperfollow's search function to filter to just the stream I want to check
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rhiaro There's a small list of people I'll go check their profiles directly on twitter to make sure I haven't missed anything
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rhiaro possibly could do this with a priority tag or something
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rhiaro I tend to try to do everything with tags if possible
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acegiak rhiaro: yeah there's a few friends I have that are primarily twitter users so I'm using a twitter->rss service to subscribe to them in my reader
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rhiaro since I'm making follow posts, I'm going to be able to tag them like any other posts anyway
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GWG I think this is worthy of braindumping
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acegiak GWG: If we add a follow/unfollow type it would be super easy for me to automatically create that post when I create a new blogroll link
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GWG acegiak: What are the data points of a follow/unfollow type?
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GWG Isn't unfollow deleting the original follow?
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aaronpk well you need some way to indicate to a consumer that the follow post is gone
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acegiak.net edited /follow (+179) "/* Displaying followees */" (view diff)
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aaronpk so publishing a list of changes (follows and unfollows) might make sense
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acegiak GWG: They happen at different times though?
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acegiak there are three things: the action of adding a person to your subscription list, the list entry itself and the removal from the list
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acegiak the middle one doest have a chronological component so isnt a post type?
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rhiaro I documented my brain dump on this at indiewebcamp.com/follows#Follow post
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rhiaro I'm interested in keeping track of when I (un)followed someone
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rhiaro I wouldn't want the act of unfollowing someone to remove all trace of that
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rhiaro ^ which might be different for some people
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rhiaro so post types with published types make sense
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rhiaro s/published types/published dates
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: so post types with published dates make sense
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rhiaro And either publishing a (un)follow post could generate/remove a follow relation that is listed somewhere
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rhiaro or
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rhiaro creating that relation could be automatically recorded as a post
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rhiaro depeding on your implementation preferences
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rhiaro I'd find the former easier, but acegiak sounds like you'd prefer the latter
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rhiaro or if you're not bothered about a list you could just have posts, or vice versa
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GWG Should it be a post though, is the question
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rhiaro because I imagine some people might want to publish a list but not having things appearing in their followers' feeds
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rhiaro GWG: I know lots of people who say no, it is an 'activity' which is not a post
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rhiaro But I also keep hearing 'everything is a post'
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rhiaro So I'm trying it out ot see
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acegiak GWG: what else would it be?
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acegiak I feel like if it has a chrono component it's a post
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rhiaro acegiak: for this, I'm inclined to agree at the moment. I also think it would be cool to add a note
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rhiaro i'm bouncing about between posts and activities at the moment
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rhiaro interestingly can't find anything in microformats to do with following/subscribing, but I might be missing it
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acegiak the difference being that you can have an activity which is "published/edited/deleted" post that is separate to the post itself?
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rhiaro acegiak: yes
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acegiak I understand that technical distinction but I think it's artificial
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rhiaro acegiak: yes, that's what I'm struggling with at the moment
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rhiaro this has come from socialwg/activitystreams discussions
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rhiaro which gets pushback from here
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rhiaro acegiak: some roundup of thoughts from a few weeks ago: http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types but I've changed my mind about some stuff since then
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rhiaro so I've decided the next step is to implement a bunch of activity-type stuff as posts and see if it works or if posts are overkill
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rhiaro The thing I'm pretty sure *doesn't* need a post is edit/modify/update a post
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acegiak I think that saying "I listened to this song" and "I have started following simon" and "I think elizabeth warren should run for the 2016 presidency" are all pretty similar
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rhiaro right
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rhiaro some of the 'not a post' arguements are 'blah ate an apple' is an activity not a post, *but* I would argue that what I'm doing is posting about eating an apple, the action of eating the apple isn't what happens on the web, so that justifies being a post
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acegiak I would say "blah ate an apple" is a post because you're announcing it
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rhiaro yeah
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rhiaro I'm posting about eating an apple
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rhiaro not eating an apple via http
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aaronpk someday i hope i can eat an apple via http
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KevinMarks We have had rel=following discussions in microformats
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rhiaro aaronpk: someday, everything via http :)
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rhiaro KevinMarks: recently?
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acegiak it would be something other than a post if it were an entry logged by some kind of software that you are incapable of curating *cough*nsa*cough*
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rhiaro KevinMarks: rel="following" works for a list of people(/sites/whatever) you follow, but not for a post saying 'I followed blah' (with the relation to blah, which I envision as u-follow-of right now)
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GWG acegiak: I'm just pondering out loud. I could add a 'follow' option rather easily.
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acegiak GWG: Maybe an option you can turn on in the options screen? like the others?
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GWG I really need to write something to exclude kinds from the main stream optionally
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GWG Maybe group them into optional extra archive pages
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acegiak agreed
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GWG acegiak: After I finish the first version of Indie WebActions
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acegiak cause currently when I put on google now radio it spams listens
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acegiak yeah, fair enough
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GWG acegiak: Do you do anything as a private or protected post?
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acegiak GWG: not really
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KevinMarks http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-brainstorming#fans_and_followers
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KevinMarks It was a while ago
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KevinMarks When twitter used xfn-brainstorming I think it used rel= friend
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KevinMarks s/xfn-brainstorming/xfn for following/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: When twitter used xfn for following I think it used rel= friend
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GWG acegiak: I was doing bookmarks as a private post in my latest experiments. I figure...if I 'like' it or 'favorite' it, then I'm expressing an opinion.
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GWG If I'm bookmarking it, I'm reproducing the 'save later' type mentality.
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acegiak GWG: Oh yeah, right.
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acegiak that's just a thing I'm using other services for atm
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rhiaro GWG: that's how I differentiate between likes/faves and bookmarks
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rhiaro bookmark = will read/use later
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acegiak I have two lists: bookmarks and "to read"?
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acegiak and then I have likes/faves which are identity statements?
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GWG acegiak: Owning My Bookmarks is on my list of things to do. I have 37,000 of them
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GWG acegiak: I thought you used one as an identity statement, not both
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GWG If I recall, one was you liking a specific URL. The other was you liking a thing/concept.
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GWG For example, Bob likes apples vs Bob likes this story on apples.
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acegiak both are statements about me though
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acegiak but "web resources I use regularly" and "things I need to read but havent yet" are two separate things that I'm not using my site for atm
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GWG acegiak: Ok
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KevinMarks The blogroll used to be a practical tool, before we had readers
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KevinMarks You'd click through the links on it every so often to see what was new
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/new
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GWG acegiak: One of my personal goals is to move my frequency of posting closer to yours.
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GWG KevinMarks: As someone here for the long game, going back on this...what's the evolution of readers to the present?
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KevinMarks If you look at my frozen in time blogroll on epeus.blogspot.com I sorted it by frequency
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ben_thatmustbeme woo, moved my computer to the other room
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ben_thatmustbeme newly run network cable looks good
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KevinMarks The blog rolling service would inject one with js sorted by last update
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GWG KevinMarks: Now that people aren't just posting articles or notes...but other forms of post content...does that change things for you?
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acegiak GWG: the majority of my posts are reposts though, so there's that
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rhiaro ding http://rhiaro.co.uk/follows
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rhiaro tomorrow: add unfollows posts for kicks
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rhiaro but now, sleep
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aaronpk rhiaro: awesome tag pages! http://rhiaro.co.uk/tag/w3c
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 58 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 59 karma
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /follow (+224) "/* rhiaro's follow posts */" (view diff)
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rhiaro aaronpk: thanks :)
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@kid_OYO Students @stonybrooku today building business plan for projects using new @oyoclass app +#python #java #indieweb #css https://twitter.com/kid_OYO/status/592516016371994624/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592516016371994624)
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@TodoCoders Students stonybrooku today building business plan for projects using new oyoclass app +#python #java #indieweb #css https://twitter.com/kid_OYO/status/592516016371994624/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592517380443656192)
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@Data88Geek RT @TodoCoders: Students stonybrooku today building business plan for projects using new oyoclass app +#python #java #indieweb #css http://… (twitter.com/_/status/592518256038170624)
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aaronpk heh, i've had a script running for a couple years now where Loqi spits front-page hackernews articles to ##hackernews on freenode
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Loqi grins profusely
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aaronpk since there was no official API, it was just scraping the HTML
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aaronpk was working great up until last week when I think they changed their HTML. turns out they launched an official API a couple months ago too
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aaronpk so I updated the script to use the new JSON API
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aaronpk within 2 days, there was already a glitch where Loqi started outputting empty entries for the whole front page, which I am assuming was because the API had some glitch
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aaronpk i just thought it was funny that in several years i never had a problem with the script, and as soon as I made it use invisible data instead of HTML, it glitched out
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tantek that is pretty funny
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tantek API less reliable than HTML
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tantek yes a JSON read-API is a DRY violation of the HTML
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aaronpk i mean that's a relatively small sample size, but 2+ years with no problems vs 2 days with a problem is not a good sign
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tantek and since more people/programs see the HTML than the API, the HTML ends up being more reliable.
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tantek aaronpk - please capture that in a short blog post or note
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tantek seriously - that is an important data point to throwback at all the JSON-all-the-things people
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tantek all developer's natural instincts is to clamor for some sort of "clean" model of the data - and turns out that in practice, from a pragmatic maintenance / what breaks / what doesn't point of view, they're *wrong*. presentation/display = quality. "clean model" = less maintained.
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tantek s/developer's/developers'
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Loqi tantek meant to say: all developers' natural instincts is to clamor for some sort of "clean" model of the data - and turns out that in practice, from a pragmatic maintenance / what breaks / what doesn't point of view, they're *wrong*. presentation/display = quality. "clean model" = less maintained.
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aaronpk wow yeah, I wrote that code in August 2012 and it required no changes since then
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tantek yeah seriously blog that
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tantek rhiaro: great discussion about "follow" and "unfollow" posts
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tantek this is insightful: "add a note about why I (un)followed them (lots of people I follow on Twitter are consistently interesting but I can't remember when/how I found them)." http://indiewebcamp.com/following##how%20I%20found%20them
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acegiak GWG: for maintainability maybe we should have a file in indieweb post kinds that straight up defines the kinds in one place to make it easier to add new kinds on the fly?
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tantek !tell rhiaro I like all the new information added to http://indiewebcamp.com/following - however the structure of the TOC makes it seem abstract (idea-centric), rather than concrete (example-centric) and mixes examples with wants.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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GWG acegiak: Should be doable. I was thinking of, after what the WordPress people told me about Simple Location, I might do a rewrite of part of it t avoid some function scope complaints.
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acegiak cool
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tantek !tell rhiaro I'd prefer a re-organizing of http://indiewebcamp.com/following subheads by "IndieWeb Exampes / person-name", "Silo Examples / silo-name", "Brainstorming"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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GWG So, I might move that to a file for that reason.
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acegiak Is anyone else annoyed by all the tumblr/twitter pretty post features in 4.2? Like they just did it in the most annoying, silo centric way possible?
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tantek in WP4.2?
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acegiak yeah
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GWG acegiak: What features are you referring to?
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acegiak ie "when you post in a tweet link we'll embed the tweet for you!"
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acegiak same with tumblr posts
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acegiak I understand why they've done what they've done but it's like they've completely failed to identify any of the issues we've identified here
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tantek with quoting / embedding?
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acegiak having those features for those specific silos only (and only until they need patching caus the api changes) annoys me so much
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tantek they've add silo-specific features but no indieweb (including their own - WP blogs) equivalent?
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tantek that's a sign of lack of product vision and just doing what big media companies with WP blogs are asking for in terms of feature requests.
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tantek wow: https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=unfollow
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GWG tantek: Did you catch this? https://twitter.com/helenhousandi/status/592315683905662976
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@helenhousandi @pwcc my dislike of including an entire metabox library for something I don't even want a UI for is strong. (twitter.com/_/status/592315683905662976)
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acegiak as far as I can tell (without looking at any code) they've got some magic regex sitting at the back that turns urls containing twitter.com and tumblr.com into embedded posts
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tantek.com edited /unfollow (+407) "/* Silo Examples */ note emergent ironic "unfollow" behavior on Twitter" (view diff)
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GWG And that's the person who led the last release.
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tantek what is metabox?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "metabox" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=metabox&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-26%2Fline%2F1430105010402
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tantek pwcc is someone we've seen around here right?
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GWG tantek: Correct
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acegiak he's the other australian I think?
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GWG Meta boxes refer to form elements in the WordPress Post UI
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tantek such a bad name
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GWG tantek: As many are
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tantek names are hard
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GWG Agreed
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acegiak agreed
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tantek aaronpk: your websocket update UI in the IRC archives is faster (lower latency) at showing me others' posts than Colloquy. Crazy.
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tantek like by seconds
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aaronpk that's nuts
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aaronpk it gets weirder, the hackernews API is actually hosted by firebase https://www.firebase.com/blog/2014-10-07-hacker-news-api-is-firebase.html
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aaronpk hrm, http://indiewebcamp.com/reader needs some updates
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tantek which aspects?
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tantek IndieWeb Examples?
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aaronpk well i'm not using selfoss anymore, and I doubt benwerd is using the prototype we built last year
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tantek perhaps you can move the selfoss stuff to a "Previous Examples" section? Would be good to keep the screen shots
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aaronpk previous examples, good
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tantek also - were you ever able to get pull requests sent to them to consume h-feed?
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aaronpk i wrote it as a plugin
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aaronpk i dont' think I ever submitted it anywhere
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tantek oh cool! definitely worth submitting
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tantek the (un)follow discussion was very interesting to watch (I was out and about most of today)
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tantek regarding what people want in their reading experience
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tantek also KevinMarks's observation that blogrolls were nice because you could just click and open tabs for the people you wanted to read, and catch up on them one at a time.
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aaronparecki.com edited /reader (+405) "move selfoss to previous examples, add Monocle" (view diff)
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tantek nice.
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aaronpk had to move me to the bottom of the list ;)
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tantek hah!
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tantek also there are *at least* two classes of people I want to follow - a few I want to catch up with and not miss any posts, and the rest where dipping in an out is ok
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aaronpk definitely
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tantek no one has a unified reading experience that allows this right now
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tantek which is one of my frustrations with all the (feed) reader UIs
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aaronpk hmm, you could do that in Monocle by creating two tabs, one for each class
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tantek they *either* are stream-dip-in style, or they are email-client-unread-posts style
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aaronpk is seeing the read state important for th epeople who you don't want to miss any of their posts?
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tantek except how would I know that Monocle was keeping track of how far back I'd read for the "not miss any posts" set of people?
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tantek it's not a matter of two tabs/groups/lists/circles
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tantek it's a fundamental difference in presentation of lists of posts
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aaronpk i guess i'm asking if you still want the email-client-unread-posts style for the one class of following
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tantek yes that's my point - *something* like that, for the "not miss any posts" set of people
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tantek but I hate email UI so that's probably not it
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tantek following your friends should not feel like work
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tantek email always feels like annoying work
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aaronpk yeah I like the stream style, so maybe something where it was more obvious if you've already seen something would work
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aaronpk i kind of like when a stream indicates where you left off by greying out the past posts that you've already seen
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aaronpk feels less like an inbox that way
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tantek some kind of where you left off temporal indicator is MUCH better than the (un)read state indicator and # of messages red stress number
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aaronpk yaeh, i've totally tuned out the red stress number at this point. some people look at my phone and see all the app icons with the red numbers and have panic attacks
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aaronpk okay this post took way longer than I intended, but I hope it's useful
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/microformats (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In August 2012, I wrote a quick script to stream front-page Hackernews stories to an IRC channel on Freenode (##hackernews in case you're in...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api)
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aaronpk that always happens when I link to a bunch of IWC pages :P
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tantek lol - looks like an opportunity for some clustering presentation
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aaronpk I thought that title would be ironic since the HN API announcement blog post had a header called "Firebase is your API"
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tantek nice
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KevinMarks Tabs? We didn't have tabs back when we used blog rolls
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi nice
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tantek oh sorry, "open link in back" :)
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@oSoftDev SO close to uploading the new website--still a few more details first. #indieweb #CSS3 #JavaScript #VB https://twitter.com/oSoftDev/status/592556481075126272/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592556481075126272)
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tantek you could command-click links and them open up browser windows *behind* your current window
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KevinMarks Hm, aaronpk, would making unmung.com add microformats to other well-known websites be a good thing, looking at your hn example
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KevinMarks A beautiful soup script per site would be doable.
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tantek lol hackernews tables for presentation
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aaronpk KevinMarks: that's an interesting idea!
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aaronpk tantek: yeah lol, I didn't want to critique that or suggest otherwise, and demonstrating adding h-entry to a table layout is kind of neat anyway
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tantek aaronpk: totally. nice post.
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aaronpk thanks!
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tantek aaronpk - there are so many ways to summary tweet your post that I'm not sure which to pick!
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aaronpk heh does that mean I crammed too much into the post?
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tantek no it's a very well written post
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tantek excellent narrative
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aaronpk oh good *whew*
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kylewm KevinMarks: I've wanted a proxy service that marks up well-known websites (new york times, wapo, reddit, etc.) with mf2 forevar
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tantek that would be amazing
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tantek that way the scraping code / regexes could be maintained collectively as open source
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aaronpk wow so many spammy pingbacks
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aaronpk tantek: what is your recommendation for how to display a "comment" that looks like this? http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.offeryour.com%2F%3Fp%3D155563
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tantek whoa did you get a spam webmention?
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tantek hey it's not a comment - no in-reply-to
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tantek it's just a mention
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aaronpk oh yean not a comment, just a mention
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aaronpk it's a pingback that was proxied
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tantek can't find the permalink
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tantek found it http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=155563
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tantek it's a bookmark collection of two links, interesting
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tantek ah looks like phpmf2 is not supporting full backcompat hAtom parsing yet. it's supposed to be turning the rel=bookmark into a u-url u-uid
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tantek this guy: "bookmark": ["http:\/\/blog.offeryour.com\/?p=155563"],
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aaronpk hmm... sounds like php-mf2 needs some work
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tantek in the parsed mf2 results
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tantek under the rels collection
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tantek which is fine
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aaronpk the real problem though is the name
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tantek however, it needs backcompat support
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tantek this is all likely due to phpmf2 only having partial hentry backcompat support
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aaronpk well this should be fun http://hackernews.p3k.io/
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KevinMarks_ hah, is that what I suggested?
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aaronpk not quite
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aaronpk this is an html equivalent to my IRC room
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aaronpk it turns the front page of hackernews into a feed
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aaronpk rather than a ranked list of articles
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aaronpk whenver a new story hits the front page of hackernews i add it to the feed here
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KevinMarks_ ah, I see
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KevinMarks_ so you are caching not just munging
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aaronpk yeah
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KevinMarks___ Algorithm monoculture as antitrust violation http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/when-bots-collude?mbid=indieweb
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petermolnar good morning, indieweb
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petermolnar a slightly offtopic, non-technical thing: this morning I've found this entry on how 500px is distorting landscape photography, and among many things, especially in the comments, I've realized how many of the photographers are either returning, sticking or never even left their blogs for social networks
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petermolnar are you aware of anyone doing indieweb-easy, photographer oriented blog engines/plugin combos, that would make very non-technical (html-less) people use our solutions?
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petermolnar ( by the way, the blogpost, in case someone is interested: http://www.naturephotoguides.com/blog/photo-consumption-conformity )
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davidpea.ch edited /IRC_People (-55) "Removed davidpeach.co.uk. added davidpea.ch (new domain)" (view diff)
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davidpea.ch created /User:Davidpea.ch (+741) "Adding initial user content for davidpea.ch" (view diff)
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davidpea.ch edited /User:Davidpea.ch (+23) "Linked my home page." (view diff)
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@StartupFredx RT @kid_OYO: Students @stonybrooku today building business plan for projects using new @oyoclass app +#python #java #indieweb #css http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/592671939530989568)
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@startupLI RT @kid_OYO: Students @stonybrooku today building business plan for projects using new @oyoclass app +#python #java #indieweb #css http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/592672250547073025)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
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@diplix danke für die schönen antworten (bis jetzt). tnx @schnarfed 4 #bridgy. tnx @indiewebcamp for #webmention & stuff. https://twitter.com/diplix/status/592697481605046272/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592697481605046272)
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@hmans RT @diplix: danke für die schönen antworten (bis jetzt). tnx @schnarfed 4 #bridgy. tnx @indiewebcamp for #webmention & stuff. http://t.co/Y… (twitter.com/_/status/592697887332704256)
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: I'd like to have a good indieweb photography solution. don't know of any existing ones
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: good photography solution?
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ben_thatmustbeme in what sense?
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KartikPrabhu upload and self-host photos, along with UI to put them in posts
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KartikPrabhu context: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-27#t1430131063834
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh. I have been using mobilePub to take and post photos from my phone, but its true, there really isn't anything high end for desktop at all
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KartikPrabhu it is on my itch list
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petermolnar especially photo-portfolio oriented
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petermolnar also, hi & re
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petermolnar ben_thatmustbeme the main context is that recently I realized that a massive number of photographers are still/again mostly focusing on their blogs/own sites but they miss the old community sites where people actually exchanged opinions, critiques, etc. on a picture
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petermolnar and that they might be interested in the indieweb, but there is no tool for them
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@klintron Ancestry dot com Deleted 10 Years’ Worth of Families' History http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/04/myfamily_shuttered_ancestry_com_deleted_10_years_of_my_family_history.single.html?utm_content=buffer09030&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/592721658311475202)
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ben_thatmustbeme that is certainly doable, but needs a good eye for design if they want to get photographers
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KevinMarks Very distressing site death report http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/04/myfamily_shuttered_ancestry_com_deleted_10_years_of_my_family_history.single.html?utm_content=buffer09030&utm_medium=irc&utm_source=indiewebcamp.com.com
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aaronpk yeah seriously
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ben_thatmustbeme wow, yeah, thas pretty bad
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ben_thatmustbeme can someone add that to site-deaths
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ben_thatmustbeme we don't have ancestry.com on there
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ben_thatmustbeme or MyFamily, or whatever
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aaronpk well this is cool, apparently superfeedr already supports publishing multiple URLs in a single post
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almereyda asks himself if anybody in IndieWebLand already published a position about https://github.com/linkeddata/SoLiD ?
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almereyda despite contribution to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg, though.
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aaronpk this week i have to clean up the micropub and indieauth docs in prep for next week
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (-29) "multiple topic URLs is supported by superfeedr so remove the "proposed" from it" (view diff)
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kylewm why ask yourself when you can ask "what is solid?"
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GWG Afternoon
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zachdonovan Afternoon!
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zachdonovan err, I should say...
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zachdonovan GWG: Afternoon!
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GWG zachdonovan: Hello. How is your site going?
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aaronpk haha this is great https://twitter.com/RealAvocadoFact/status/592761642657705988
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@RealAvocadoFact bwahahavocado if a fruit can do it guess how much of an excuse you have not to, actual web companies did you guess 0 https://twitter.com/RealAvocadoFact/status/592761642657705988/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592761642657705988)
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zachdonovan GWG: awful slow, but I might have fixed the all_tags thing!
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zachdonovan GWG: how's your quick-post UI coming along?
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GWG I'm thinking of removing a feature to get myself to a usable version.
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GWG The microformat parsing. May table that for a future version.
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GWG I can accomplish the same goal to start with Open Graph and enhance on that.
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kylewm almereyda: do you have a public site built on SoLiD?
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kylewm I tried for about an hour to log into Cimba last week and could not figure it out... the documentation for how to get a WebID had so many broken links and dead ends :(
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aaronpk argh also googling "webid" comes up with a bunch of auction results because "WeBid"
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kylewm haha I noticed that too
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rhiaro kylewm: I figured out webid today!
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 4/26 at 8:16pm: I like all the new information added to http://indiewebcamp.com/following - however the structure of the TOC makes it seem abstract (idea-centric), rather than concrete (example-centric) and mixes examples with wants. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-26/line/1430104561400
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 4/26 at 8:17pm: I'd prefer a re-organizing of http://indiewebcamp.com/following subheads by "IndieWeb Exampes / person-name", "Silo Examples / silo-name", "Brainstorming" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-26/line/1430104628360
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rhiaro On phone atm but I'll write something helpful later
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kylewm rhiaro: I look forward to reading it!
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rhiaro Heads up, you need a foaf profile
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/foaf.rdf
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rhiaro Splendid
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aaronpk oh my
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kylewm I really did try!
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rhiaro rhiaro.co.uk/about
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aaronpk kylewm: I just liked a post in woodwind and my like post immediately popped up at the top of my reader
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aaronpk it happened so fast it felt like I had clicked like on the wrong post because the post I liked moved down one
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 161 karma
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snarfed GWG: i can has WP webactions plugin pls? kthxbye!
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@pierreozoux #indieweb http://www.ancestry.com/ Deleted 10 Years’ Worth of My Family History http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/04/myfamily_shuttered_ancestry_com_deleted_10_years_of_my_family_history.html https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-ancestrycom-deleted-10-years-worth-of-my-family-history (twitter.com/_/status/592770709035835392)
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KevinMarks_ what's the microformats parsing problem, GWG?
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kylewm aaronpk: funny! folding new posts under a "N new posts" button like twitter is moving up my itch list
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aaronpk haha really? tantek went on a tirade last time I mentioned adding that to monocle
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kylewm heh
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kylewm well it's certainly not good for the page to scroll away from you while you're reading it
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aaronpk i agree
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aaronpk i kind of like how it works on twitter
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aaronpk i wouldn't want it to be an unread indicator, so it can only show new posts that have come to the page while it's been open
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KevinMarks_ how about if the posts add to the top and the page scrolls to maintain current post location?
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aaronpk sounds fragile
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Loqi [mention] John Evdemon posted 'A Quick Roundup of Some Open Web Resources 1 min read I re...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:building-blocks (http://www.evdemon.org/2015/a-quick-roundup-of-some-open-web-resources)
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Loqi [mention] John Evdemon posted 'A Quick Roundup of Some Open Web Resources 1 min read I re...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (http://www.evdemon.org/2015/a-quick-roundup-of-some-open-web-resources)
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Loqi [mention] John Evdemon posted 'A Quick Roundup of Some Open Web Resources 1 min read I re...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (http://www.evdemon.org/2015/a-quick-roundup-of-some-open-web-resources)
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KevinMarks_ tommorris++ for build checks on mf2py
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Loqi tommorris has 77 karma
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almereyda kylewm : Unfortunately not yet. I'm about to run rww-play for bblfish again, because he split with Stample (why stample.io doesn't fit too much anymore for it). So we'll see before the SocialWG F2F next week how that turns out. But LDApp and https://webid.im are also quite nice ...
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kylewm webid.im gives webid.im uses an invalid security certificate.
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kylewm The certificate is only valid for the following names:
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kylewm klaranet.com, www.klaranet.com
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kylewm what is LDApp?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LDApp" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=LDApp&summary=prompted+by+kylewm+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-27%2Fline%2F1430166582834
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kylewm this is what i'm talking about... these projects all look abandoned with their broken links and expired or invalid certificates
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kylewm I confirmed the security exception and now webid.im takes me to a http://linkeddata.github.io/warp/#/list/https/webid.im/ which is a directory of cryptically named files?
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aaronpk i get a browser cert login prompt first
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aaronpk and then I get taken to a blank chat page asking me to authenticate
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aaronpk but i didn't get redirected to the github.io page
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kylewm that is what i get too if i go to http://webid.im
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kylewm but the original https link that almereyda shared redirects? at least in firefox
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petermolnar !tell KartikPrabhu how about building the webmentions/indieweb tools for http://koken.me/ ? This kind of looks like a proper cms for photographers, it may as well could be turned into the indie photographer cms.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk whoa that looks nice
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: if I knew PHP
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: petermolnar left you a message 59 seconds ago: how about building the webmentions/indieweb tools for http://koken.me/ ? This kind of looks like a proper cms for photographers, it may as well could be turned into the indie photographer cms. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-27/line/1430167183743
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KartikPrabhu also I don't like CMSs
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petermolnar you may not, but remember, we started the conversation a few hours ago as indieweb for strictly non-technical (web/it) photographers
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almereyda Pasting bblfish from https://gitter.im/co-operating-systems/CAPS
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almereyda Our aim is definitively to get those communities in. I am finding that we are producing better and better UIs. See Melvin’s latest http://webid.im/signup.html with a paper http://webid.im/paper/ and the demos at http://webid.im/
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almereyda I am going to write a simple foaf explorer this week for next weeks Paris meeting of the Social Web WG
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almereyda Not sure the chat quite works yet, but at least it looks good
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petermolnar I just dropped the idea in, I'll definitely look into that cms
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almereyda Sorry for putting the s in the http
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: yeah it does look very nice. But my objection to CMSs is for non-devs anyway like me :P
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petermolnar a cms kind of makes sense in term of photo sorting and for catalogue purposes
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aaronpk i wish that existed when i was taking tons of photos
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petermolnar me too :/
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KartikPrabhu I don't know Twitter, G+ and Flickr seem to do just fine without an actual CMS separate from the site itself
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aaronpk i think the point of this is to store your photos on something other than flickr
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I am talking UI-wise
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KartikPrabhu in any case this CMS issue is separate. Koken looks nice indeed and some PHP people who take photos should get on it
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petermolnar aaronpk I've just got a 504 on indieauth for https://indieauth.com/auth/start?me=https%3A%2F%2Fpetermolnar.eu&profile=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fpetermolnar&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2FSpecial%3AIndieAuth%3Freturnto%3D
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aaronpk petermolnar: darn! well it looks like it's getting a timeout error
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petermolnar what is getting timeout from where or for which request? :)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "getting timeout from where or for which request" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=getting+timeout+from+where+or+for+which+request&summary=prompted+by+petermolnar+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-04-27%2Fline%2F1430167926012
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aaronpk i'm not sure
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petermolnar Loqi needs an escape sequence for what is ... ? starting, but real questions
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk i think a max length for the what is questions would work
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aaronpk petermolnar: are you getting that error every time or only sometimes?
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petermolnar to be honest I used the mozilla persona login a while ago; the real indieauth was alway slow for me
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aaronpk i added caching a while ago so that first list pops up instantly now, it works way better that way
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snarfed nice to see that github's blog post about github pages today echoes a number of iwc principles:
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snarfed #1 is self dogfood, #5 is scratch your own itch, #6 is plurality over monoculture
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KevinMarks_ you could do a photo thing like svgur.com
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tommorris KevinMarks_: ah, you've discovered the magic that is TravisCI. ;-)
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tommorris just doing some coding to a deadline for work, will review PR when I have a spare moment.
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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tantek amazing(ly sad) about ancestry-com
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tantek wow: “[u]nlimited storage space and SiteSafeSM technology keep all of your family memories safe and secure. No matter what.” (former Ancestry-com's MyFamily homepage)
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tantek !tell rhiaro you don't actually need a FOAF profile for WebID, you can use an hCard instead (and thus just use your home page instead of a less-visible DRY violating side file) http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#hCard_and_WebID
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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tantek cc: kylewm ^^^
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rhiaro tantek: oh, I didn't know that
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 46 seconds ago: you don't actually need a FOAF profile for WebID, you can use an hCard instead (and thus just use your home page instead of a less-visible DRY violating side file) http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#hCard_and_WebID http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-27/line/1430169955905
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rhiaro it's not DRY violating if you generate one from the other, is it?
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tantek rhiaro: back in the days when I still had some hope for positive participation > noise in mailing lists.
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tantek rhiaro: it is - that's a big misconception about DRY violations "but they are all generated from the same database"
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KevinMarks_ is there a WebEGO and WebSUPEREGO too?
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almereyda what means DRY in this context?
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almereyda is that an abbreviation?
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sparverius dont repeat yourself
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/582652159461720064
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tantek rhiaro: that excuse was often used for RSS etc. and yet the data did no support that theory, in fact, quite the opposite. RSS/Atom feeds were often broken in practice - didn't matter that they were supposedly generated from the same data store.
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@kevinmarks ‘DRY stands for “Don’t Repeat Yourself”. The opposite of DRY is WET, which stands for “We Enjoy Typing”.’ @LeaVerou http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920031123.do (twitter.com/_/status/582652159461720064)
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tantek s/did no/did not
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Loqi tantek meant to say: rhiaro: that excuse was often used for RSS etc. and yet the data did not support that theory, in fact, quite the opposite. RSS/Atom feeds were often broken in practice - didn't matter that they were supposedly generated from the same data store.
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tantek broken as compared to the HTML of a blog
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aaronpk i went through a mini exercise yesterday, attempting to have a single RSS file as a home page and style it with css and add microformats so it can be parsed as an h-feed
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almereyda thanks sparverius and KevinMarks_
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tantek the short form proof is that the "generated from" code path for the DRY violation still requires its own maintenance, maintenance which is neglected (and thus breaks) over time because it's for a secondary (or far less important) presentation of the data
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KevinMarks_ that reminds me, tantek - if you put <meta> outside the <head> are they implicitly hoisted?
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tantek KevinMarks_: not AFAIK, I think all sorts of invisible data anti-patterns from Google and others actually depend on <meta> in <body>
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KevinMarks_ ah, OK
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tantek almereyda: you can always ask what is DRY?
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Loqi DRY is an acroynm for Don't Repeat Yourself https://indiewebcamp.com/DRY
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almereyda does that also work like this? :
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almereyda Who is tantek?
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Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com
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almereyda ohh!!!
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@oSoftDev Visitor Counter and most other database functionality restored. The more advanced pages will come later #indieweb https://twitter.com/oSoftDev/status/592803822017347584/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/592803822017347584)
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almereyda Good night dear web-sovereignty-fighters; don't forget to sharpen your swords for the SWG F2F. We see again.
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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tantek who's bringing swords to the SWG F2F? that doesn't very "social" :P
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KartikPrabhu tantek: actually my RSS failed once for 3 weeks even though I generated it from the same database, because I changed the name of a field! Updated HTML templates but forgot the feed templates, since invisible
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tantek rhiaro: ^^^
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KartikPrabhu i know i know, unit tests and all that
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tantek.com edited /feed_file (+21) "linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /DRY (+9) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /feed_file (+566) "subheads for criticisms, add another example to "out of date" criticism" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS (+169) "also apply: Feed File Criticisms" (view diff)
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rhiaro tantek: for melvin's webid chat to work I'd have to generate the rdf from an h-card myself anyway
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rhiaro "Once in place, structured data middleware can then ingest the blog post and produce a Linked Data resource"
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tantek rhiaro: better to have the source of the data be some place / something visible (like an h-card) so it's more likely to be accurate / up to date.
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tantek hey tilgovi - any insights from last week's annotation f2f or iannotate conf that you think apply to indieweb publishing?
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tilgovi tantek: thanks for the ping, I'll get back about it. Have some other things to do this Monday first.
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tilgovi super good thought, though
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tantek tilgovi: I ask because I've been coincidentally doing a lot of open-brainstorming/design about working on /quote posts for my own site: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#quote_posts
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tantek figured you probably have recent discusions about these things all cached in your head :)
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KevinMarks_ turn thinsg into RDF: http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkevinmarks.com%2F
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tantek aaronpk - the pingbacks turned webmentions you have on your HTML is my API post appear to all be spam. https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/04/26/1/html-is-my-api#mentions
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aaronpk yeah :(
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aaronpk they look terrible too
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aaronpk that's partly the fault of the backcompat issue with php-mf2
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aaronpk but what am i suppsoed to do if someone really did have a bunch of newlines and tabs in their p-name property?
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tantek you mean in terms of /comments-display?
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tantek offhand I suppose you could do your own whitespace collapsing
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aaronpk yes although technically it's 'mention display' because it's not in-reply-to
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KevinMarks_ or rely on HTML to do it for you
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tantek aaronpk: right - mention display - we don't have any guidance on that currently AFAIK.
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aaronpk i guess i would never want to display whitespace from a name, whereas I do when I display content
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tantek and frankly, how useful is it (has it been) to display much (if anything) of/from "mentions" ?
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aaronpk i think it's interesting
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aaronpk comments are far higher signal, but I do like to see thementions still
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tilgovi tantek: I've just set the robots to task reminding me tomorrow :)
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps author/site h-card + post name would be sufficient for mentions?
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tantek or maybe even just a facepile
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aaronpk i think i want to display post name, with no post content
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+1296) "/* 2014 */ MyFamily shutdown, loss of user data" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'm on the fence about the author/site h-card, and also in practice most of the mentions are not marked up with microformats
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tantek aaronpk: have you received any "mentions" worthy of actually showing their post name?
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aaronpk there are two types of mentions i've received
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tantek aaronpk - you can use the presence of higher quality markup (microformats) as a signal for a richer display of a mention
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aaronpk some are comments on other posts, where they would normally look like comments and they have mf2 and an h-card and everything
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aaronpk for those, there isn't a post name other than the content of the post
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aaronpk the other type of mention is other blog posts (with a name) linking to mine
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: instead of (or in addition to) unit tests, you could have your site email you on error or uncaught exception ... i just added that recently to hopefully avoid some future embarrassment
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snarfed kylewm++ whee ops
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Loqi kylewm has 162 karma
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aaronpk if you're gonna go that route, I recommend setting up something like errbit (it's self-hosted!) to avoid getting pummeled with 100+ emails in rapid succession
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kylewm aaronpk: pingback spam might have been my fault, indirectly https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9444533
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aaronpk yes, those sites are pulling the "new" page and creating spam wordpress posts
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kylewm I liked your heretical "I parse HTML with regex and it works way better than your official JSON API" post
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aaronpk this morning when I read http://mitchkirby.com/2015/04/22/why-cell-phones-cant-cause-cancer-but-bananas-can/ 2 of the 3 pingbacks were from the same spam blogs
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aaronpk the other pingback was from ma.tt
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kylewm that's good evidence for not throwing out mentions
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aaronpk now i have some ideas on mention display
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aaronpk also kylewm lol that's one way to summarize my post
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-27/line/1430174276287 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/04/27/5/)
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kylewm hehe
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aaronpk also wow I didn't realize that in the display of my like, it doesn't show the domain "indiewebcamp.com" anywhere
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KevinMarks_ what's best practice on multiple (bitmap) images markup?
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tantek KevinMarks, what's the example post URL with multiple (bitmap) images markup?
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@kylewmahan Browsing through my #indieweb https://kylewm.com/likes page makes me so happy. So. many. cats. (twitter.com/_/status/592822184403415040)
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tantek posts a mention of aaronpk's post just to provide another datapoint for his UI (re)design of how he presents mentions :)
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snarfed hey kylewm, remind me how you own your instagram likes?
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KevinMarks_ this is for the app.willsomeone.com thing - I'm just hotlinking in giant images for user icons and it would make sense to resize them down
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aaronpk haha thanks
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tantek y.w. http://tantek.com/2015/107/t1/html-my-api-hackernews-vs-json-reliability :)
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tantek it's not really a "comment" per se so I didn't mark it as in-reply-to
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aaronpk right
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tantek it's perhaps closest to a bookmark post,
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tantek URL is the key information in the post, referenced article name, author are all from that, I added a summary but that's secondary, and I (hash)tagged it with "microformats2" thus closest to a /bookmark
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aaronpk my post is the top result for html is my api now
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aaronpk i wonder where google found it from, since I'm not publishing to their PuSH hub anymore
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KevinMarks_ is srcset what I want for alternative icon images? I remeber some debate about this, but not the resolution
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snarfed aaronpk: crawl has multiple tiers, based on publish frequency
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snarfed i expect you're in the top tier, so you're at least partially crawled somewhere between 1h and 1d
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snarfed (i doubt google's push hub was ever a crawl input)
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tantek snarfed - I think it was for a while - like a year plus
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tantek based on having posts of mine show up in *seconds* in Google results
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snarfed tantek: really?! citation?
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snarfed definitely possible, but i'd be surprised
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KevinMarks_ hm, looks liek no-one but Chrome has <picture> support, but srcset is in more things
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kylewm snarfed: regular old POSSE via the instagram API, since it's the only thing they let us post
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tantek I think from ~2012-2013, and the only citations I have is when I spoke about it and showed screenshots during that time
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tantek snarfed: I *assumed* that they wouldn't break that :/
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tantek and sometime in 2014 they did
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aaronpk oh I didn't think bridgy would be sending RTs ot tantek's tweet to my post, but it is!
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snarfed i can imagine multiple triggers. push could definitely have been one, but maybe not the only onea
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tantek snarfed: it was never officially announced or anything - only observed
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snarfed and i don't expect it was ever especially important to the crawl/search teams
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snarfed sure, understood
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tantek it was just after they dropped the Twitter results (due to the deal renewal falling through)
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snarfed aaronpk: nice! only because tantek is signed up though
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aaronpk oh and some of them are favorites
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aaronpk oh that explains it!
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aaronpk this is a great example now
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aaronpk all those should actually be displayed as favs/rts of tantek's post, not of my post
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tantek aaronpk - would you display my mention any differently if it had linked to you with "u-bookmark-of" ?
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aaronpk tantek: i think i only look for "like-of" "repost-of" and "in-reply-to" right now
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tantek I could also have marked it "u-tag-of" and made # microformats2 into a tag I that I put on your post
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snarfed (re bridgy, this is the perennial https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51)
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KevinMarks_ heh 51 is bridgy's 19
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tantek aside: aaronpk link-preview FB POSSE copy of my note on your article shows a hires photo of you, rather than HN/code etc. : https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10101621824118263
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aaronpk whee meta tags
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aaronpk i should get in the habit of finding photos to use for my posts more often
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Loqi +1
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tantek really? that's the result of you using OG meta to your face photo?
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aaronpk yeah
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GWG snarfed: It isn't quite perfect yet.
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tantek huh - that seems wrong on post permalinks
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aaronpk well, it's more a question of what is the appropriate thing to do when there is no image in the post
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aaronpk because without that, facebook was getting it wrong(er) more often than not
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tantek if FB doesn't find an image then it shows no link-preview image
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tantek we've documented this
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aaronpk there are other images on my site
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#Facebook
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aaronpk like my small profile photo in the sidebar, and the icons in the lower part of the sidebar
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aaronpk both of those look terrible when facebook finds them and shows them as the link-preview image
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tantek it might take the first image >200x200
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tantek are any of those >200x200?
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aaronpk whatever it was doing without me defaulting to my profile image was looking very bad
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tantek presumably those other images are purely presentational? wonder if using CSS to display them (rather than <img>) would help avoid FB errantly using them
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aaronpk that would probably help
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tantek and if it defaulted to a *small* profile image of you - that could be ok, because it would show the side-by-side link-preview rather than the big-wide-image link-preview
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tantek large vs. small as documented in http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#Facebook
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aaronpk ugh that ?noscript link freaks out and rewrites itself when JS is enabled
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aaronpk and then it jumps to somewhere else on the page
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aaronparecki.com edited /link-preview (-15) "/* Facebook */ remove no_script thingy because facebook removes the fragment in that case when JS is enabled" (view diff)
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aaronpk odd, my image is 512x512, so it's not clear what category it would fall under
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aaronpk is 512x512 smaller or larger than 600x315?
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tantek aaronpk - I think the resolution requiresments are an "and"
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tantek thus guessing "smaller"
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aaronpk then fb should be displaying my image in the small format
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aaronpk since it's not >600px wide
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GWG snarfed: https://github.com/dshanske/indie-webactions (Work in Progress)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /follow (-381) "Rearrange sections" (view diff)
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snarfed GWG: woo!
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GWG snarfed: Feedback appreciated. Lots of work left to do, including the unkind markup.
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aaronpk tantek: there I added a picture for you :D
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aaronpk i have no idea how long until facebook picks up the change tho
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GWG aaronpk: I think there is a way to refresh that
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