#indiewebcamp 2015-05-10

2015-05-10 UTC
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tefka
for example, there does not seem to be a videochat software (like skype) which has this kind of philosophy and is easy to use
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KevinMarks_
well, talky.io is close - we use that a lot
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tefka
true, some things come close .. but still
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GWG
tefka: Video chatting is a hard one because of bandwidth.
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KevinMarks_
well, WebRTC is an indieweb friendly way of doing it, but you still need some STUN infrastucture
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tefka
why is that GWG, the bandwidth is obviously there, since there are enough comercial applications that people use
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GWG
tefka: Worldwide, not everyone has it. Most likely many people in here do though
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KartikPrabhu
what is indieweb?
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Loqi
The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb
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KartikPrabhu
tefka: mostly because of focus on that ^
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tefka
it is just that indieweb seems to be a pretty "new" thing and it does not seem to go all the way with "own your data/software"
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KevinMarks_
what is indieweb friendly?
mnot joined the channel
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KevinMarks_
I thought we did
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tefka
at least not yet
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tefka
do you own talky.io's software ?
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KevinMarks_
tefka: well, if it's something you value, think about how to build it
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@socialmediamond
willnorris comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=8253 - #startup #trending #socialmedia #news #business #marketing #entrepreneur www…
(twtr.io/zFXbJnSu0Z)
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KartikPrabhu
man what is up with these sites just reproducing other stuff.
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tefka
I mean talky.io has to at least operate rendezvous servers and manage rooms/chats .. I dunno much about it though
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KartikPrabhu
tefka: isn't that the trouble with video-chatting though? it is hard to do peer-to-peer video chatting without maintaining some intermediate central server thing
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tefka
yea, hard as in impossible at the moment .. still, you guys apparently have a blog hosted on a server on your own "personal" domain, it would seem logical to host such an intermediate server as well
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KartikPrabhu
a good intermediate is to figure out how to do text chats
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KartikPrabhu
what is messaging?
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Loqi
messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) https://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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tefka
hasn't text already been solved with xmpp ?
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KartikPrabhu
not site to site
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kylewm
http://moose-team.github.io/friends/ is a cool project working on p2p chat based on WebRTC (like talky)
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KartikPrabhu
the question isn't about technology/plumbing but how to do text chats using your own domain
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kylewm
sorry KartikPrabhu, a cool project working on chat that you can install on your own domain
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tefka
*could* , but still uses github for identification
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KartikPrabhu
tefka: one step at a time. it is not fair to ask for everything under the sun from any of these projects
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tefka
sorry ^^
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KartikPrabhu
most indieweb code has a github home
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tefka
it seems the problems are 90% solved, and the remaining 10% is to put it onto your own domain and have it use that
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KartikPrabhu
that is the hard 10%
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ben_thatmustbeme
*reads back a little
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ben_thatmustbeme
XMPP is an option but its a bit much to ask everyone to run their own XMPP server
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ben_thatmustbeme
maybe specifying you xmpp user@server... but that gets in to the problems of spam and such
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ben_thatmustbeme
would have to really dig in to more of XMPP to really say much more on the topic
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ben_thatmustbeme
as to why is everything blog software, simple, its the easiest place to start
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm just now branching in to trying to own my contact list
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ben_thatmustbeme
building up from follow/unfollow
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually the first step is really using your domain as your identity
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ben_thatmustbeme
anywhere that I can now, when i create an account, i use my domain name as my username
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats step 1, and there really isn't much software needed for it outside of indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme
although i worry we need more auth providers as it is a single point of failure at the moment.
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ben_thatmustbeme
with a few notable exceptions, we all use it
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, i'm not officially rambling
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: also, i'm now officially rambling
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GWG
I'm fine with your rambling if you accept mine. We all ramble sometime or another.
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GWG
I'm trying to see how many people I can annoy with my code styling, it seems.
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Vendan
question, I'm building my own indieweb compliant blog software, following http://indiewebify.me/
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Vendan
does it make sense to use indieauth.com or similar for my own login to my site?
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GWG
Vendan: Indieauth is a tool. You can roll your own authentication if you wanted. Your choice
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Vendan
lol, honestly, I'm sick of rolling web auth stuff. Considering it's just me logging in, a simple hardcoded check or similar wouldn't be that bad.
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kylewm
Vendan: indieauth is maybe slightly harder than rolling your own password-based authentication if you just have one user. the payoff comes if you want to allow others to sign in to your site
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kylewm
(but really only slightly)
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GWG
Vendan: You don't need to reinvent the wheel.
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GWG
Using a preexisting library, for example, is not against the Indieweb principles
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Vendan
there really isn't a preexisting library, tbh
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Vendan
at least nothing I'd be interested in using
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GWG
That is a problem
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Vendan
programming in golang, and really, even if I went as far as actually doing hashes and such, its not like it's a massive amount of code
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GWG
But someone has to be the trendsetter
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Vendan
preexisting library for a simple password auth system?
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Vendan
80% of it is just templates to render...
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Vendan
I'm just not going to go overboard with email verification and password recovery tokens
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GWG
Vendan, I don't know much about golang.
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Vendan
it's a lot of fun :)
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Vendan
trying to build as simple of a blog as possible
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Vendan
2~3 files to install on about any platform
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Vendan
including most shared hosting
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Vendan
plus, even a $5 DO droplet would be overkill
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GWG
I just finished feeling comfortable with PHP.
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Vendan
probably make a "multi-user" version, like wordpress.com
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Vendan
but with the distinction that a there's a single file to download that'll contain your whole blog, and you can just push that up to another host, and boom, there's your blog again
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think the advantage of indieauth is really being able to use a number of micropub clients that assume you are using some sort of auth endpoint complient with indieauth
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Vendan
yeah, I get that
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ben_thatmustbeme
I use it for login to my own site (single user)
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Vendan
interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme
the only thing is a need to bootstrap so you can get those initial configs (twitter/FB/github/etc) links to allow it to work
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ben_thatmustbeme
also as I stated, i'm concerned that there is only 1 indieauth. we really need to use multiple as the docs on indieauth.com are rather the shortcut method that will mean it will only work for sites using indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme
but if you are designing just for the site owner itself, thats not really an issue
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Vendan
do you have any stuff where other users can log in for any reason, or is it just your access to your own admin panel?
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Vendan
one question with the indieauth approach is that if indieauth.com goes down, everyone who's using it has to rewrite their stuff to use a new service
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Vendan
one reason I'm leaning away from it for my use
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ben_thatmustbeme
so I did have stuff for others to get extra info if they are logged in to my site
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ben_thatmustbeme
i recently made that section public anyway though
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ben_thatmustbeme
also if others log in to my site they can get links to edit their own comments (through mp-config)
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ben_thatmustbeme
also they can use my micropub client if they want
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ben_thatmustbeme
Vendan: I agree, except i believe indieauth.com is open source
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ben_thatmustbeme
so you could easily fork it and make your own
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ben_thatmustbeme
and it should be fully compliant
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Vendan
it is, but no matter what, existing sites would need to rewrite code to use the new "gateway", unless you managed to get the "indieauth.com" domain name
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ben_thatmustbeme
its literally a 1 line change
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Vendan
I have a tendency to write code that can be used by anyone, and I don't want to lock people out of their accounts cause a third-party site went down
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GWG
Actually, if I remember correctly, the existing sites are supposed to get authentication server info from the page itself.
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ben_thatmustbeme
its just changing the html to point to a different auth endpoint
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GWG
The protocol says that it looks for a link to the authorization endpoint. If people aren't implementing discovery, that owuld be on them.
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Vendan
ahh, that's not as bad, but still an issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
it would be entirely possible to use the indieauthprotocol with just a fixed password, ignore the rel-me-auth part
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Vendan
cause it's still my site that has the auth link and such
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ben_thatmustbeme
and it would not take long to write up
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ben_thatmustbeme
i wonder if we should allow multiple auth endpoints
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ben_thatmustbeme
to allow for failover
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GWG
Well, the protocol falls over onto indieauth
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GWG
Why not be able to specify it?
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: ben_thatmustbeme yup, sorry, your twitter bridgy acct is broken right now due to that Unicode url
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed: I'm always breaking stuff
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: heh np. PRs welcome for fixing stuff too! :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually you don't ping the auth endpoint until you redirect the user there... i think you are right about being able to maybe select auth endpoints if there are multiple listed
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Vendan
urgh, unicode issues :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed... not a python guy... wouldn't know where to start honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme
well... i would know where to start
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ben_thatmustbeme
but it would not be a quick fix for me
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: np!
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp
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GWG
Good evening, tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme
evening tantek
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "next is 20th!"
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GWG
Speaking of HWC...People who have been to HWCs, what sort of food venue is good for them, considering I can't get a centrally located non-food venue.
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+15) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next is 2015-05-20"
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tantek
GWG, cafe style - where you order at the counter separately
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GWG
tantek: Makes me think of Schnippers, that place we ate at during IWC NYC
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+260) "/* Planning Questions */ What kind of food venue is works well?"
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GWG
Hmm...that might work
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GWG
It's centrally located, easy to get to...
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tantek
GWG, is there an indie event for the NYC 2015-05-20 HWC?
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GWG
tantek: I added the Facebook one, but not the Indie one. I still haven't coded events into my site
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tantek
GWG, ok no problem. Are events on your site an itch for you, at least as a Homebrew Website Club organizer? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Itches
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: XMPP is quite problematic. It's a massive spec that no one has ever fully implemented, that there's no comprehensive (or even feature covering) test suite for, and which everyone (who bothers to) implements only part.
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GWG
tantek: Not until I attend more of them.
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GWG
That's why I started on check-in...
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tantek
GWG, but as an organizer, it's better if you post an indie event and make the FB event the POSSE copy :)
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tantek
So it's gotta at least be a lower priority itch for you ;)
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tantek
what is XMPP?
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Loqi
Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) is an open messaging standard, perhaps best known in its use for cross-platform instant-messaging application interoperability https://indiewebcamp.com/XMPP
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GWG
!tell zachdonovan tantek gave me, inadvertently, a good venue idea
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /XMPP (+352) "Issues"
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GWG
tantek: My next project is refining my existing projects to be in line with the WordPress developer standards while making some improvements. I will likely be laying the groundwork for further post kinds in there, so I can use the Post UI I just built to input them.
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Vendan
does anyone use bootstrap for their indieweb stuff?
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GWG
Not specifically.
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Vendan
I really suck as a designer, so my site's ui is currently extremely minimal :)
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tantek
Vendan, I believe Known used to and is in the process of abandoning it becacuse bootstrap is too much of a pain to evolve / iterate :(
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Vendan
lol, I can see that
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+579) "/* Structure */ before the event, create event(s), invite etc."
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Vendan
I've got a very template friendly system so far, so I'm not terribly worried about changing stuff like that
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tantek
GWG, in particular, could you set the HWC NYC FB event header photo to: http://indiewebcamp.com/images/5/5d/im-attending-indiewebcamp.png like the way that Kyle did for the previous HWC SF? https://www.facebook.com/events/868304959882663/
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tantek
(and yes I added that to the organizer instructions on /hwc )
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GWG
Done
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: xmpp sounds like push in that regard. . A giant spec that never gets fully implemented
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+398) "/* Beforehand */ link FB POSSE copy to wiki"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is *tiny* compared to XMPP
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tantek
Thanks GWG
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tantek
GWG, next, at the end of the description in the FB event, link to the indiewebcamp wiki page for the event, e.g. like: "More information: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club "
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ben_thatmustbeme
Oh wow. THAT big huh?
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is a very small spec, just in general
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kylewm
tantek: Vendan: Known is moving to Bootstrap 3
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@JimVajda
I HATE and refuse to use software that locks-in user data. Fitness apps are among the worst. Luckily there is @tapiriik. #OwnYourData
(twtr.io/zFjrXavEzC)
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ben_thatmustbeme
Btw. Started working on setting up my site for '(un)follow' via micropub
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tantek
hey kylewm! Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for HWC SF 2015-05-20 as well? (I'm going to be in NYC, so maybe Creamery again?)
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tantek
thanks!
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GWG
tantek: Maybe if you are there, the RSVPers will show.
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tantek
GWG - I'm going to both invite people on the FB event and message them personally
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kylewm
Vendan: aaronpk uses bootstrap a lot, too. aaronparecki.com, quill.p3k.io, monocle.p3k.io, etc.
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tantek
and I'm going to invite the entire CSS Working Group
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tantek
kylewm, hmm that sounds like it's worth capturing...
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tantek
what is Bootstrap?
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kylewm
just checked, I was surprised by that^
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tantek
sounds like you know of a lot of IndieWeb Examples as well
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Vendan
http://getbootstrap.com/ css and js for programmers to use for making decent designs
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tantek
kylewm: surprised about Known using BS3. I know Ben & Erin's new not-so-secret project does not use Bootstrap. The podcast thing.
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Vendan
ugh, so many pretty designs. Could not make anything close :P
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kylewm
tantek: interesting! I didn't realize wavelist wasn't... http://known.co/ does use bootstrap too
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tantek
kylewm: yes they have a lot of early usage for it - but my understanding from last time I spoke with Ben in person is that they're trying hard to move away from it.
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kylewm
Bootstrap is a large collection of boilerplate HTML and CSS styles and components originally developed by Twitter. http://getbootstrap.com
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loqi.me
created /Bootstrap (+165) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431225570888 and dfn added by kylewm"
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Vendan
one of my main complaints with bootstrap is that you wind up with a semantic class and multiple display classes
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GWG
Vendan: You shouldn't style basic on a semantic class.
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Vendan
why not?
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GWG
Standards change.
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Vendan
i.e. why not style based on h-entry?
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GWG
Design and structure are different things
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tantek
Vendan, it depends. For a quick deployment of a site you don't expect to restructure / iterate much (if at all), you can totally get away with styling semantic classes (e.g. h-entry)
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Vendan
then you'll need to change the h-entry, and with any kind of decent css preprocessor, that change takes 30 seconds to change in your css
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GWG
If you are starting from scratch, better to plan from the beginning.
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tantek
However, if you end up iterating a bunch on your site (with design etc.) you will have to do a lot more work.
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GWG
I'm trying to get hfeed out of the most common base for WordPress themes and find a way to get hentry out of WordPress the way it is implemented in a way they'll except.
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GWG
I may be trying to convince them of the same...semantic markup shouldn't be styled.
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GWG
accept, not except, excuse me
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tantek
Vendan - in practice a bunch of us have been bitten by this - so it's not just 30 seconds of change - especially depending on what your CSS rules are like
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tantek
the other scenario, which GWG points out, is multi-person development.
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tantek
If more than one person is working on the HTML and/or CSS for a site, then it's even more important to separate classes for styling and *purely* semantic classes.
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GWG
I use WordPress, and I've rewritten my theme three times in the last year.
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GWG
And I'm still rewriting it, because I discovered a mistake.
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Vendan
interesting, most of the articles I've seen talk about the exact opposite
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kylewm.com
edited /Bootstrap (+592) "add detail to description and IndieWeb Examples"
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kylewm
Vendan: have you tried logging into the indiewebcamp.com wiki yet with your domain?
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Vendan
nope, my domain isn't running my indieweb stuff yet
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Vendan
developing locally, cause having an IDE rocks :)
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tantek
Vendan, yes, a lot of us wrote articles like that in the past :/
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tantek
it took a while, and many iterations of changing markup and style sheets to figure this out
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Vendan
the main thing that I see is that if I just styled the right semantic classes, I could drop replys and such in my markup without too much effort, other then a basic sanitization
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tantek
Vendan, yes, in theory (and in practice initially) you can get pretty far with that approach
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Vendan
if I have my own class names for styles, I have to process those replys to insert my class names
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tantek
you shouldn't be putting others markup in your page anyway! that's an XSS vulnerability
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kylewm.com
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+168) "/* Where */ add SF venue"
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Vendan
uhm, I sanitize, thank you very much
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Vendan
heck, with the sanitization library I use, I can go all the way down to "only allow these specific classes on divs"
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tantek
Vendan, which sanitization library?
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Vendan
it's rather hardcore in the standard mode, I'd actually be relaxing it some to allow those classes through
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tantek
nice name :)
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Vendan
it's "meant" to be paired with blackfriday, a golang markdown processor
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tantek
not a New Order reference?
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Vendan
oh, it is
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tantek.com
edited /sanitize (+35) "more dfn terms"
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tantek.com
edited /sanitize (+70) "/* Approaches */ add bluemonday sanitization library"
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tantek
Vendan, have you signed into the wiki with your personal domain?
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Vendan
lol, hopefully I'll be adding my software to that wiki in the next couple of days
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Vendan
heh, not yet, my software is only running on my desktop right now
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kylewm
Heh tantek i just asked them that
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Vendan
I'm just rather hardcore on efficient code, and php and similar is too much of a bloat to install on my vps
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Vendan
and I'm not touching WP with a 20-foot pool
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Vendan
I guess I could just put up a temporary index.html on my domain though
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Vendan
there, logged in
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tantek
Vendan++ for just getting it done with a simple index.html
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Loqi
Vendan has 1 karma
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Vendan
well, I really just edited my current hugo static blog, but I'm going to replace the whole thing with my own software soon :)
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Vendan
vendaria.net
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tantek
next go ahead and add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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tantek
and if you add an image, it will show up next to your statements in the logs: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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vendaria.net
edited /IRC_People (+52) "Adding myself"
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tantek
Vendan: are you in New York City by any chance? Next event there is in a week and half: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Vendan
actually in NC, wish I could show up to events
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Vendan
new york is just timezone :(
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GWG
Vendan: I'm trying to get the NY meeting up and coming. You could always find some friends and start something in NC?
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Vendan
I'll see about it, if anyone is interested at the local hackerspaces
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Vendan
heh, there isn't anything golang obvious on https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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Vendan
I get to be first :)
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tantek
Vendan - I think sandro wrote a webmention handler in golang at IWC Cambridge 2014
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tantek
let me check the demos
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Vendan
well, I'm aiming for full blogish type stuff
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Vendan
would be useful, depending on licensing
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tantek
I'd guess it was pretty open, sandro works for W3C
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Vendan
is there any kind of recommended licensing? I usually go MIT or AGPL
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tantek
Vendan, lots of MIT/BSD/CC0
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tantek
found it - sandro worked on code to import old LJ posts, using Go http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-12#t1413150688156
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tantek
from LJ's XML export
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tantek
but I can't find any record of the code being posted online so ...
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tantek
go for it Vendan :)
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Vendan
using a lot of stuff I worked on for my wiki, so the first bit of it is rather simple
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Vendan
kicking myself for not pushing it all to github yet, cause I'm away from my main desktop
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Vendan
heh, that micropub stuff is neat
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GWG
Vendan: Isn't it?
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Vendan
there's so many small, relatively easy to implement little "features" on the indieweb stuff that just adds up to a massive "holy crap that's awesome" when it all works together
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tantek
what are building blocks?
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GWG
Vendan: That's why we like it.
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tantek
kylewm, GWG I've invited a bunch of people to the FB events for the next HWC
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tantek
get ready for the Bridgy invitation flood! (assuming that still works / got fixed)
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GWG
As soon as I talk to zachdonovan, time to confirm a venue/time
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Vendan
heh, makes me want to get a shared hosting account again, just so I can get the fastcgi stuff working right with golang
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GWG
snarfed: I'm still having trouble with backfeed from bridgy.
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snarfed
GWG: ruh roh, sorry
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snarfed
still?
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snarfed
which silo(s)?
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GWG
snarfed: Facebook. On the user page, it says it found no post links. But in the log, it found the u-syndication links.
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snarfed
have you re-authed recently?
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GWG
So, if it found both, why is it not sending the webmentions?
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GWG
snarfed: Not recently. Should I?
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GWG
Where is the reauth again?
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snarfed
um, front page
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GWG
IT is finding the responses, but it isn't sending webmentions, even though it says it is saving the relationship
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snarfed
looking
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snarfed
GWG: i don't actually see that it's finding syndication urls
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snarfed
maybe the log messages are misleading
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snarfed
it's *looking* for them for each FB post url, not finding anything, and saving a blank relnship
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GWG
snarfed: They are coming from SNAP automatically that way.
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snarfed
bridgy has limited support (or maybe none) for FB syndication URLs w/nicknames right now, due to 2.x API apocalypse
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GWG
Can't win, I guess
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snarfed
sorry :(
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snarfed
if you can get the synd urls in there with your user id, it will work
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GWG
I just found it.
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snarfed
FB 2.x API literally prevents us from mapping nicknames to user ids and vice versa
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GWG
There's a setting in SNAP for it
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GWG
What about the user telling you what the username is?
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GWG
So, now that I changed the links...will it ever rescan?
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snarfed
sure, of course! every 2h
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GWG
Okay. That should work
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snarfed
i can't say i'd prioritize letting users input usernames
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GWG
snarfed: At least I found a setting to override it. I didn't realize it was there.
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snarfed
we're kind of burnt out on bending over backwards to handle FB's breaking API changes
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GWG
I was thinking of trying petermolnar's project
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tantek
!tell aaronpk how's the realtime display of responses (comments, likes, reposts) working on your notes? I remember something was broken last october - haven't checked since.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
snarfed: I wish people would respond more elsewhere
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Vendan
does realtime display include ajaxy updates while on the page, or just better then static site generation?
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tantek
Vendan - better than just Ajaxy updates - updates from the server via websockets!
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Vendan
ahh, neat
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tantek
what is realtime?
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Loqi
Realtime is a well-defined software field where computing has to complete or fail cleanly by a deadline, because latency is paramount https://indiewebcamp.com/Realtime
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Vendan
though also, ugh, as I hate js
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tantek
well that page is not very useful
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Vendan
that's the embedded programming and such def. of realtime
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GWG
snarfed: I wanted to mention I stabilized the webaction handler. You'd just have to add a filter and a hook to store it in your preferred formats and open up the closed types.
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tantek.com
edited /comments-presentation (+24) "see also realtime"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
moved /Realtime to /realtime "decap term"
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snarfed
GWG: great!
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tantek.com
edited /realtime (+193) "link to specific examples"
(view diff)
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Vendan
that's also more complex, as websocket isn't really compatible with fastcgi and such
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GWG
snarfed: And the category code has a filter. And should be familiar. You wrote the original version. I borrowed the logic you created for micropub that looks for categories, if not, saves as tags.
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GWG
I just couldn't decide on whether I wanted to write display code when I had it in Post Kinds. So I tabled that. But I made sure it would work without it.
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@hmans
@nd_cmptr Wobei ich den einen ja auf seine Art wirklich spot-on finde. Wir sind alle indoktriniert und IndieWeb verkauft sich oft schlecht.
(twtr.io/zFvEmCAbsH)
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GWG
It is also using OpenGraph to get data, instead of microformats. Which I am only partly ashamed of.
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GWG
Most of the news sites I read had no microformats
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tantek
GWG, do you ever bookmark indieweb posts? or only news sites?
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GWG
tantek: More news sites. But, I decided that, after that trouble, I would add microformats during a later update
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tantek
GWG, sounds good
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tantek
what was the data quality like of the OpenGraph data?
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tantek
lol sorry
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GWG
tantek: I parsed dozens of sites to come up with the 'rules' for extraction.
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tantek
GWG, oh dear that sounds like scraping almost :/
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tantek
hopefully with microformats you can just follow the /link-preview tips
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GWG
tantek: Not exactly. The fields are there for people to use to get info about the page
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GWG
I parsed dozens of sites to see who was using what, more than anything else.
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GWG
I kept throwing URLs at it.
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GWG
For example, tantek.com, as you know, has none of that markup.
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GWG
aaronpk appears to be putting the entire post into both the title and description opengraph fields.
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GWG
But newspapers are giving me suggested tags, description...rarely author name...
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GWG
So, I figured if I merge that with microformats support, I should be able to get link previews for most things.
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GWG
Maybe I should document this.
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GWG
What is OpenGraph?
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GWG
Open Graph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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GWG
OpenGraph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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loqi.me
created /OpenGraph (+109) "prompted by GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431233135645 and dfn added by GWG"
(view diff)
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GWG
I'll go fix that
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+131) "/* Wordpress Development */"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan: I use mf2 classes to style without trouble (so far)
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: isn't OpenGraph facebook specific?
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: No. Facebook is just its most popular supporter. Twitter uses it as well. And it is an open standard.
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tantek__
GWG, always worth searching the wiki before creating. Note /OGP and other pages there already. Just missed the "OpenGraph" variant
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GWG
Oops
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GWG
I'll go fix it
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tantek__
Perhaps redirect /OpenGraph to existing page and add your new content there?
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david.shanske.com
edited /opengraph () "(-1069) Redirected page to [[The-Open-Graph-protocol]]"
(view diff)
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GWG
There you are
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@kartik_prabhu
@ThatEmil the way I do it in Django is to have Response model that stores the URL to which the webmention ... more: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/emilbjorklund-django-webmention
(twtr.io/zG2Xt4QwAf)
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@btconf
Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for everybody!
(twtr.io/zG2nnG14_8)
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@Renaade
@MarcoZehe danke, der Mann muss arbeiten und ich vergnüge mich gleich beim #indiewebcamp ;)
(twtr.io/zG3w1wig9L)
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@webgefrickel
RT @btconf: Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for every…
(twtr.io/zG7iXB5ZSR)
eschnou and tantek joined the channel
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tantek
thanks GWG!
KevinMarks_, glennjones and eschnou joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+164) "consolidate a bit, see also microformats, link-preview, linky linky, more subheads, expand dfn"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /comments-presentation (-20) "/* in realtime */ rm dup see also, linky"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /real-time (+22) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /realtime (+33) "/* Examples */ better labels"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks_
should the main page have germany at the top instead of cambridge?
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tantek
KevinMarks - yes - I think it just slipped through the cracks
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tantek
!tell KevinMarks just pinged aaronpk about home page update to IWC Germany - if it's something obvious to you like that, feel free to fix it!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (-174) "update next to germany"
(view diff)
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rhiaro
timezones--
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Loqi
timezones has -8 karma
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aaronpk
on the other hand,
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aaronpk
timezones++
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Loqi
timezones has -7 karma
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 29 minutes ago: how's the realtime display of responses (comments, likes, reposts) working on your notes? I remember something was broken last october - haven't checked since. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431231742445
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aaronpk
hmm i don't know actually, i think i fixed the bug but not totally sure
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tantek
aaronpk - having comments show up on your posts in realtime is definitely worth demoing every opportunity you get
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aaronpk
good call
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tantek.com
edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+166) "dfn and superseded with better docs"
(view diff)
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rhiaro
For anyone watching, main subcamps at IWC Dusseldorf day 2 seem to be adding microformats, webmentions, UI stuff, and a few people adding or improving micropub endpoints
friedcell, glennjones and fkooman joined the channel
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aaronpk
hacking begins!
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fkooman
hacking++
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Loqi
hacking has 1 karma
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tantek.com
edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+11) "redir to PuSH 0.4 + h-entry - now that it works"
(view diff)
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fkooman
i'll be available for https/indiecert support. See also my blog post from last night on https: https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/blog/https.html
michielbdejong, LukasRos and killerog joined the channel
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aaronparecki.com
edited /How_to_set_up_PuSH_with_Atom (+46) "see also new PuSH page"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /PubSubHubbub (+60) "add explicit How section linking to separate page on it"
(view diff)
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tantek
hacking++
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Loqi
hacking has 2 karma
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fkooman
is there anyone with php-fpm + apache experience? it seems to be a disaster to get it working in a secure/reliable way :(
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aaronpk
secure/reliable? why are those related?
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aaronpk
i normally set up fpm with nginx, but i might be able to help
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fkooman
aaronpk, they are not really related, but both are important :)
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fkooman
it should have been secure & reliable
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fkooman
i.e. not run out of sockets after 5 concurrent users etc. :)
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aaronpk
ooh yeah, you should be able to find that knid of stuff by googling without too much trouble. i don't know the specifics of how apache and fpm work together
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killerog
aaronpk: the link to the documentation on the success page at indieauth.com seems broken. Goes to: https://indieauth.com/documentation
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aaronpk
oh darn, thanks
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killerog
np
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killerog
yup
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fkooman
aaronpk, is it intentional that if you put your PGP key on your site and link to it, it cannot be a relative URL? I have to use <link href="/fkooman/fkooman.asc" rel="pgpkey"> instead of just "fkooman.asc"
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fkooman
indieauth.com will not detect it otherwise...
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aaronpk
that is not intentional, no
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aaronpk
feel free to file a bug
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Jeena
is there a API for posting to Facebook via brid.gy?
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aaronpk
bridgy publish
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aaronpk
how would people feel about a micropub request for creating a blog post coming in with inline images? e.g. <img src="data:.....
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aaronpk
cause if I don't do anything with this, that's what's going to happen
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Jeena
oh wow, it even honors u-photo
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Jeena
impressive, I guess at least for Facebook it is time to move on from FbGraph to brid.gy
glennjones and eschnou joined the channel
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aaronpk
I really want the image positioning thingy that comes with the medium editor
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killerog
:)
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aaronpk
has anyone written a lorem ipsum generator for generating code samples?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /private_posts (+35) "/* Silo Examples */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
michielbdejong: example of facebook showing the audience of a private post http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts#Silo_Examples
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LukasRos
aaronpk, rhiaro and anyone else who’s publishing like/repost/reply-markup on their site - please help me test and create a like, repost or reply for http://lukasrosenstock.net/post/59359549 and send a webmention.
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rhiaro
LukasRos: juuust as soon as I'm sending webmentions automatically (soon hopefully!)
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raucao
no ssl yet, because our reseller decided to launch a new control panel that has broken CSR parsing
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raucao
lolssl
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raucao
(or rather tls)
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raucao
someone wants to comment and like and stuff?
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raucao
don't have a second site for testing
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fkooman
raucao, i sent a webmention!
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raucao
fkooman: cool, thx
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fkooman
did you get it?
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raucao
apparently http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany doesn't have the event marked up
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raucao
anyone knows if there's a marked up version of this event so i can try rsvping?
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fkooman
raucao, you can also login to https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/ and try yourself, you can post html and links and stuff :)
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aaronpk
raucao: i see an h-event on that page
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aaronpk
er, h-entry
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fkooman
raucao, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webmention/ <-- nice for Firefox! :)
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raucao
fkooman: nice!
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aaronpk
ah i see what you mean, that is confusing, because every wiki page gets an h-entry added by the wiki
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raucao
fkooman: known apparently didn't get it
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aaronpk
this one has an h-event as a child http://indiewebcamp.com/2015
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raucao
i might have to activate webmentions somehow
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fkooman
raucao, hmmm maybe, dunno
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LukasRos
rhiaro + aaronpk: Thanks!
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aaronpk
i also made an h-event on my site, much simpler markup http://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/05/09/1/indiewebcamp
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raucao
that almost worked
jansauer, nloadholtes and LukasRos joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: rhiaro, whats going on with micropub endpoints there?
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: not sure other than mine keeps sometimes not working for currently unknown reasons
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aaronpk
michielbdejong is experimenting with adding a "recipient" property to publish a post to a limited audience
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: thats unfortunate. is your code open source?
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: cool! that will be quite interesting to see
#
@glennjones
@tristanbailey @adactio yes @indiewebcamp going well, now on second day in dusseldorf. Adding lots of new features to our web sites
(twtr.io/zGXTETrX7j)
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: re images inline, at that point you are just posting HTML source, which is fine, but the post isn't exactly the image post
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ben_thatmustbeme
so if anything i'd say all we need is a mp-body-encoding=html or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme
allows for markdown, etc
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aaronpk
i need to update my micropub endpoint to allow posting HTML content when creating an article
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aaronpk
i'm not sure if that should be specified in the micropub request, or controlled by my micropub endpoint
#
aaronpk
but i still have a bunch of UI work to figure out first
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aaronpk
methinks we should get a microformats h-entry parser as a pull request into here https://github.com/itteco/iframely
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rhiaro
aaronpk: when webmention.io gets a wm to a target with a source it's already seen, does it drop it completely?
#
rhiaro
ie it de-dups
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rhiaro
or does it check if the source has changed since last time?
#
rhiaro
and then drop if it hasn't?
LukasRos and killerog joined the channel
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aaronpk
i believe it always reparses it
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aaronpk
it only sends an IRC notification the first time it gets a mention tho
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fkooman
aaronpk, i'm waiting for that yes, to be able to use quill to post HTML to micropub endpoint :-)
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fkooman
then i can move my blog over to that :-)
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aaronpk
ah nice
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aaronpk
you're gonna love this editor then :)
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fkooman
awesome :D
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aaronpk
time for messing with localforage
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@skddc
Setting up Known at #indiewebcamp. You might even see this on Twitter. http://updates.kip.pe/2015/setting-up-known-at-indiewebcamp-you-might-even-see-this
(twtr.io/zGaSaNZtd8)
adactio joined the channel
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@skddc
Setting up Known at #indiewebcamp. You might even see this on Twitter. http://updates.kip.pe/2015/setting-up-known-at-indiewebcamp-you-might-even-see-this
(twtr.io/zGaSaNZtd8)
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raucao
nice, likes and replies are also published automatically
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raucao
aaand replied back directly on twitter.com via known firefox service. i think i reached my goal for today :)
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raucao
oops, sry for spamming the channel. hadn't seen the twitter bot thing
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raucao
probably intentional
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raucao
but maybe you received a webmention?
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fkooman
i am fixing my webmention suppot now
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fkooman
so it shows next to the posts if it is mentioned, i just have to figure out stupid htaccess to send the link header
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LukasRos
Yay, incoming webmentions are working now and nicely displayed along with replies from app.net. See example here: http://lukasrosenstock.net/post/59359549
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LukasRos
All source is on GitHub in case you want to look at my webmentions implementation: https://github.com/LukasRos/phpADNSite/
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fkooman
raucao, i'm using the firefox webmention plugin to send webmentions, but it doesn't log anything...so hard to know what is going on
#
Loqi
Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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fkooman
hmm apache rewrites throw away the headers you set, useful
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raucao
fkooman: i'll try to set up better logging on mine
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raucao
also, URLs will change in a few minutes because https :/
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aaronpk
send redirects!
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raucao
of course
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fkooman
hmm i can receive webmentions now and they are shown next to the posts now, but the webmention addon in firefox does not work :/
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raucao
lucky for me, that means known's webmention support might not be broken :)
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@bastianallgeier
Could please someone do me a favour and fav this tweet. Got to try something out. Will be deleted later. http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions
(twtr.io/zGd7R2D6Lq)
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Vendan
hrm, gonna need to come up with a name for my software
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raucao
fkooman: can you send another mention to that post?
#
raucao
or any post for that matter
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fkooman
i just did :)
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fkooman
but not sure it works, because it doesn't work for me...
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fkooman
maybe the webmention addon only looks at the html and not the http headers...
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raucao
yer, can't see anything
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fkooman
can you try and send me one?
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fkooman
also doesn't work it seems ;)
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fkooman
raucao, ah okay:) still didn't get anything...i also get an email :)
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@bastianallgeier
Thank you guys!!! You can see the wip here: http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions BTW: I love web mentions :D
(twtr.io/zGe2XeGFRs)
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michielbdejong.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (+139) "/* Protocol Flow */ idea: IndieAuth login screen instead of 401"
(view diff)
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killerog
Could somebody try to send me a webmention? http://www.killerog.com/blog/2015/05/09/hello-world/
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aaronpk
fyi this is a great site that will send a bunch of test webmentions https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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killerog
thanks!
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michielbdejong.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (-50) "/* Protocol Flow */ Combine 401 response with login screen"
(view diff)
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raucao
could someone with working webmentions send me one to any of https://updates.kip.pe/ ?
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LukasRos
aaronpk: Have you intentionally removed app.net support from IndieAuth?
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michielbdejong.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (+249) "/* Option 1 */ Display p-recipient elements"
(view diff)
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raucao
much appreciated
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aaronpk
LukasRos: yes, turns out i hadn't paid my app.net developer fee so they disabled the app!
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LukasRos
Ah ok, just wondering because yesterday it was working but not today.
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aaronpk
i can afford a few cents here and there for SMS auth for everyone, but $100/yr is a bit much ;)
#
aaronpk
was it actually working, or just showing up in the list?
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LukasRos
Until yesterday, yes, all well.
#
aaronpk
weird!
#
aaronpk
they must have just disabled it today
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aaronpk
it was returning an invalid_client error today
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@justb3a
first try to publish to twitter via processwire #indiewebcamp #btconf #processwire
(twtr.io/zGgJBsN_XU)
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aaronpk
it worked :)
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LukasRos
I feel I’ve done enough for my own site today. Anyone wants my help with theirs?
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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fkooman
aaronpk, hmm it just adds 4 webmentions to my site...why would it want to block some of them? are you supposed to display the html from this page in-line?
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aaronpk
which are you talking about?
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@justb3a
just twitter posts which have the category `tweet` assigned #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/zGgvLy_HXj)
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fkooman
raucao, is it working for you as well?
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@skddc
Turns out Known's Twitter integration is ace. Goodbye, Silo! #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/zGhA9S2RCY)
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michielbdejong.com
edited /indieweb-messaging (+692) "/* Notes */ Add ideas about impact on micropub and feeds"
(view diff)
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Vendan
so ideally, a microformats2 parser should work with any future microformat added to microformats2?
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@justb3a
save returned twitter id to be able to link to the tweet #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/zGhdbewToG)
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aaronpk
Vendan: the parsing happens outside of knowledge of the vocabulary
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aaronpk
so something like <div class="h-foo"><span class="p-bar">baz</span></div> will parse just fine
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Vendan
so, that's a yes? I shouldn't be doing any kind of a "h-card needs these elements" and such?
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aaronpk
are you writing a parser?
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aaronpk
then yes
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Vendan
yeap :)
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aaronpk
it has all the edge cases
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Vendan
yeah, that's what I'm looking at
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@justb3a
forgot to save the page after setting twitter post id #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/zGhwsumwhf)
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Vendan
it's just slightly odd, cause golang stresses very hard type safety
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Vendan
not that hard to do according to the docs, just odd
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@zerstoerer
oo, looks as though @bastianallgeier's kirby cms will have web mentions and comments via twitter? this BIG for me. http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions
(twtr.io/zGjRLXqaej)
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@Renaade
Finally have my page updated with Microformats 2. *yeah #IndieWebCamp
(twtr.io/zGjjdEp_rj)
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aaronpk
FIFTEEN MINUTES UNTIL DEMOS
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killerog
runs away screaming
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GWG
killerog: Replied to your github issue.
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Vendan
another question, the parsed json result, is it supposed to be identical between all parsers? i.e. is that part of the spec, or just recommendations?
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killerog
ah, thx. right back at ya GWG
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aaronpk
omg it works
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GWG
aaronpk: What does
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aaronpk
fancy new quill
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adactio
aaronpk: a parser should be able to find microformat root classes on the html element, right? e.g. <html class="h-feed">
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aaronpk
i believe so. certainly on the body tag
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aaronpk
php-mf2 has no trouble with <html class="h-entry">
#
adactio
aaronpk: it seems to be having an issue with <html class="h-feed">
#
aaronpk
the php one?
mlncn joined the channel
LukasRos joined the channel
#
adactio
aaronpk: looks like it could be Tumblr's doing: it inserts script elements willy-nilly.
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Vendan
question, does it make sense for a single element to have multiple p-*,u-* and so on classes?
#
Vendan
and if so, how does it get added to the properties map, as each class individually?
#
@killerog
Posting to twitter: from my blog at #indiewebcamp http://killerog.com/2015/05/10/posting-to-twitter/
(twtr.io/zGnm4Fi1gN)
#
@Renaade
That's interesting: IndieAuth + WordPress https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Plugins #IndieWebCamp
(twtr.io/zGo1uzE59L)
#
aaronpk
adactio: that's really odd
#
aaronpk
adactio: if i take out the script tag at the top the parser has no problem
#
aaronpk
i'm not sure why that would be causing an issue for it though
jansauer joined the channel
#
adactio
Here's my code for sending webmentions from my site (I'm using it for the /links section) https://gist.github.com/adactio/e9c3b157dcd865dec6ca
#
aaronpk
for anyone remote who wants to watch demos, we'll be at https://beta.talky.io/iwc in a few minutes!
#
Vendan
there's people!
LukasRos joined the channel
#
rhiaro
DEMO TIME
#
@taxiphilosoph
RT @Renaade: Finally have my page updated with Microformats 2. *yeah #IndieWebCamp
(twtr.io/zGp5F8qqf0)
sanduhrs joined the channel
#
Vendan
I'm watching :)
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: You all saw Quill yesterday. What I did today was add a new posting interface for articles
glennjones joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... started from scratch
#
rhiaro
... somebody already did the hard work of making Medium style text editing
#
rhiaro
*aaronpk demos amazing looking UI*
#
rhiaro
... even has a photo upload thing
#
rhiaro
... with alignment etc
#
rhiaro
... the crazy thing is it just puts the image data into the webpage
#
rhiaro
... Saves as you type, autosave to local storage
#
rhiaro
... works offline
#
rhiaro
... publishes to micropub, everything in html is sent
#
Vendan
any way we could see the actual demo...?
#
rhiaro
... image data is embedded, didn't need to do a file upload
#
rhiaro
Vendan: any good?
#
Vendan
not horrible
#
Vendan
not great :)
#
rhiaro
sorry it's backlit
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: needs a way to edit post
#
Vendan
that's not really the issue
#
rhiaro
... wanted to do a drop down with more information about publishing
#
rhiaro
... and need to handle errors
#
Vendan
issue is screen has banding issues, cause of lcd and camera
#
rhiaro
Vendan: probably not much we can do about that
#
rhiaro
sorry :(
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: Also whilst learning about appcache yesterday, made Teacup into offline app
#
rhiaro
... speeds it up a ton, but doesn't save the post
#
rhiaro
... and added date and time for backdating food posts
#
Vendan
lol, for web stuff, demo from the computer that's running talky.io and share screen from there?
#
rhiaro
Vendan: we're all switching computers
#
rhiaro
using our own
#
rhiaro
aaronpk is using localforage
#
@FlowFXx
@bastianallgeier Very cool! I'm looking forward to the webmentions plugin.
(twtr.io/zGpeh6_kgL)
#
rhiaro
adactio: Goal was to send webmentions (already accept them)
#
rhiaro
... most important for bookmarks
#
rhiaro
... it worked :)
#
rhiaro
... code is on github
#
rhiaro
... actual webmention part was straightfoward. Dealing with html and urls that was complicated
#
rhiaro
... was using regular expressions, more problems, then realised it was madness, used DOM instead
#
rhiaro
... most of the code dealing with possible non-absolute urls for wm endpoints
#
rhiaro
... Next steps, every time I publish something on blog to loop through any links and do the same thing
#
rhiaro
... Should go into queue, often have a lot of links
#
rhiaro
Stefan: setup Drupal, stefan-auditor.de
#
rhiaro
... set up indieauth, log in with quill
#
rhiaro
... created micropub endpoint for drupal
#
rhiaro
*demos posting with quill including reply and location*
#
rhiaro
... it worked :)
#
rhiaro
(also renders map, nice)
#
rhiaro
... is a drupal module, not published on drupal.org yet still some issues
#
rhiaro
... drupal is a multiuser system, don't know which user authenticated
#
rhiaro
... need some settings for primary user, or need to use userid to authenticate
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... everything else was straightfoward, copied from adactio's gist
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Other thing I wanted to was add microformats, no solution in drupal other than editing template
#
rhiaro
... So wrote a module for that too
#
rhiaro
... Defines a mapping. Add fields to all content via the backend, so it's not easy to hardcode semantics
#
rhiaro
... Didn't want to depend on theme for microformats
#
rhiaro
... Module defines mapping field name => mf property
#
rhiaro
... Can now set variable in drupal with mapping
#
rhiaro
... On post page, javascript also parses and displays microformats
#
rhiaro
... including h-card for user
#
rhiaro
... So totally independant from theme, and avoids themers stripping out markup
#
rhiaro
... It was simpler to add micropub endpoint than classes...
#
rhiaro
... This is a longstanding drupal issue
#
rhiaro
... going to add backend to add the mapping
#
rhiaro
... Third thing was finish webmention support, already started on that a few weeks ago
#
rhiaro
... Submodule for an existing pingback/trackback module
#
rhiaro
... Already published on drupal.org as dev release
#
rhiaro
... *demos*
#
rhiaro
... receiving and sending
#
ben_thatmustbeme
oh cool, drupal plug-in
#
rhiaro
Johann: wanted to hijack instagram interface to upload, use ownyourgram, then delete
#
rhiaro
... but instagram API won't let you delete your images!
#
rhiaro
... you can delete likes, comments
#
rhiaro
... Tried to delete via web interface, but couldn't find that either, had to do it through app
#
rhiaro
... (but does have posting via ownyourgram)
#
rhiaro
... then, integrating twitter to processwire
#
rhiaro
... post from quill to my site, creates new post and publishes it for me
#
rhiaro
... same to instagram
#
rhiaro
... tweet from my site, just need to create a new note and select category 'tweet'
#
rhiaro
... *demos*
#
@johannesdachsel
Nice tweet from #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/zGr7hD6iZL)
#
rhiaro
... Next steps, implement webmentions
#
rhiaro
... if anyone uses processwire, module is on github
#
Loqi
[mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118610275298/130-365-demo-time-at-indiewebcamp-aaron-parecki posted '130/365: Demo time at IndieWebCamp. Aaron Parecki went first. ' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany
#
rhiaro
Bastian: webmentions plugin for kirby
#
rhiaro
... all file based. Hidden folder for webmentions with json files
#
rhiaro
... also pings json that caches endpoints you have pinged
#
rhiaro
... also stores images in location you choose, including user images so you don't run into mixed content problems
#
rhiaro
... spent time making templates nice
#
rhiaro
... *shows really pretty UI*
#
@aaronpk
IndieWebCamp Germany demos are starting! Watch live at https://beta.talky.io/iwc
(twtr.io/zGrRNt_Ugc)
#
rhiaro
... separates likes, mentions, replies
#
rhiaro
... very customiseable in template
#
rhiaro
... also connected to bridgy, works nicely
#
rhiaro
... Kirby has markdown extension
#
rhiaro
... added so you can write "like: url" and it creates link with like-of attribute
#
rhiaro
... Also started to build something I will convert to micropub endpoint
#
rhiaro
... integrates with zapier(?) to store tweets
#
rhiaro
... Plugin on github
jansauer joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Started docs
fkooman joined the channel
#
rhiaro
Steffen: Also Kirby
#
rhiaro
... Added microformats
#
rhiaro
... Added micropub endpoint to post with Quill
#
rhiaro
... *signs into quill*
#
rhiaro
... *posts*
#
rhiaro
... Post structure is custom, so made a script to parse content from quill
#
rhiaro
does this too.. ^^
#
rhiaro
... posts markdown
#
rhiaro
yay I'm not the only one :D ^^
#
Loqi
yay!
#
rhiaro
... In the background, creates a new folder in Kirby and inside creates article file, contains markdown and metadata
#
rhiaro
Frederic: Changed from static site to Kirby
#
rhiaro
... microformats, SMS for indieauth with mobile
#
rhiaro
... Also collected ideas for how an indieweb medium could look like
#
rhiaro
... Reasons to use medium: easy and delightful, low threshold, comments and interactions
#
rhiaro
... Could do 1) with tooltip wysiwyg, beautiful typography, auto-embed linked media
#
rhiaro
... Low threshold: needs script, easy to deploy, multiple format options, shouldn't have to set up whole blog
#
ben_thatmustbeme
lots of Kirby at this IWC
indie-visitor_ joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Comments and interactions: likes and replies with webmentions. Reader is also publishing app. Fragments
#
rhiaro
... made a mockup
#
rhiaro
... Important that if you see an article like that you can reply, then choose to publish/download/share/etc
#
rhiaro
Rogier: Site yesterday was one page with links
#
rhiaro
... Today, installed Wordpress, has lots of plugins
#
@bastianallgeier
So many cool demos at the #indiewebcamp. What a great weekend!
(twtr.io/zGsZmc1jtL)
#
rhiaro
... First hacked microformats into default 2015 template
#
rhiaro
GWG: ^^
#
rhiaro
... then read about WP on indiewebcamp wiki
#
@justb3a
post to twitter and my own website using Quill #indiewebcamp #quill
(twtr.io/zGsbPMXZkb)
#
rhiaro
... indieauth also has a plugin
#
rhiaro
... then webmentions
#
david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress_Plugins (+110) "/* Publishing to Your Site */"
(view diff)
#
rhiaro
... sending and receiving
#
rhiaro
... Then Teacup
#
rhiaro
... And posts to twitter
#
rhiaro
... also via plugin
#
rhiaro
Daniel: Added microformats
#
rhiaro
... Started with webmentions, can accept
#
rhiaro
... using webmention.io
#
rhiaro
... and sending
#
killerog
The wordpress page is here btw, for those interested: http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress
#
rhiaro
... Sent PR to aaron for Monocle to fix css for images
#
GWG
killerog: I'm very interested.
#
rhiaro
(that was tumblr)
#
rhiaro
LukasRos: implemented webmentions, particularly receiving
#
rhiaro
... Uses app.net as backend
#
rhiaro
... show on Treeview which is app.net client. Posts from webmentions are created on app.net from own account
#
rhiaro
... made webmention parser building on phpmf2 library
#
rhiaro
... parses page to see what kind of reply it is
tantek joined the channel
#
killerog
GWG: It mostly came down to install sempress theme first, and then thte indieweb plugin and related plugins that are already mentioned in the description of that plugin. And Social for posting to twitter/facebook https://wordpress.org/plugins/social/
#
rhiaro
... next is to implement sending
snarfed joined the channel
#
LukasRos
My webmention implementation is also already committed to the GitHub repository: https://github.com/LukasRos/phpADNSite
#
tantek
wakes up and joins talky.
#
GWG
killerog: I'm familiar with them.
#
rhiaro
Glenn: Ripped out notes editor from site so other people can use it
#
rhiaro
... not quite done
#
rhiaro
... As I type into editor, you see updates to text, html, json version with microformats
#
tantek
noticed sound just dropped, reloading.
#
rhiaro
... adds links as you type
#
rhiaro
... dynamically monitors typing and updates everything
#
rhiaro
... other box is for tags. You type #tags in editor and it creates comma separated list
#
rhiaro
... And it has a counter
#
rhiaro
... when it hits 140 it goes red, but you can keep going
Dash315 joined the channel
#
GWG
I think I will take a break from rewriting Post Kinds in an object oriented manner to avoid global scoped functions and go eat something.
#
rhiaro
... When it's done it'll be javascript, css and icons file
#
rhiaro
... CSS needs to be wrapped
indie-visitor__ joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... In the future, webcomponant
#
rhiaro
... Bug with selection of ranges
#
rhiaro
... *blames browsers*
#
rhiaro
... on github
#
rhiaro
... go watch it, you'll get updates when it's ready to use
#
bret
rhiaro++
#
tantek
slept laptop / rewoke, and talky works again now. weird network issue (local).
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 88 karma
#
bret
ty for the notes
#
rhiaro
... will hijack a textarea
#
aaronpk
rhiaro++
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 89 karma
#
tantek
rhiaro++ for minuting the demos!
#
Loqi
dude
#
tantek
aw Loqi
#
Loqi
grins profusely
#
rhiaro
Jan: Goal was to work with indiecert
#
rhiaro
... already had indieauth with github and twitter
#
rhiaro
... Renewed SSL cert
#
rhiaro
... and improved SSL report and added certificate pinning (more secure)
#
rhiaro
... now using StartSSL
#
rhiaro
... With indiecert, use html keygen to generate certificate
#
rhiaro
... Wanted to see if it'll work generating cert myself, used OpenSSL
#
rhiaro
... Can use own organisation name, easier to organise
#
rhiaro
... imported into browser
#
rhiaro
... add fingerprint into html. First copied from indiecert, but also checked it's really my fingerprint, so used OpenSSL to generate fingerprint myself, to verify code on indiecert works
#
Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 45 minutes ago: just pinged aaronpk about home page update to IWC Germany - if it's something obvious to you like that, feel free to fix it! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10/line/1431243975106
#
rhiaro
... So far it works
#
aaronpk
(KevinMarks_ I fixed it btw)
#
rhiaro
Joschi: First thing, add more auth providers to website
#
rhiaro
... PGP key (fiddly to find out how to sign that), email, google authenticator
#
adactio
KevinMarks: yes, that looks right.
#
rhiaro
... Started on micropub endpoint
#
tantek
(this is all amazing! read the logs and caught up. so much implementation!)
#
rhiaro
... Spent most of the day updating tool to parse microformats and schema.org
#
rhiaro
... built on phpmf2 library
#
rhiaro
aaronpk can you post link? I can't see it..
#
rhiaro
... had to update lots to parse nested schema.org
Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
#
adactio
tantek: I am absolutely blown away by how much people got done today. Amazing!
#
aaronpk
now sending webmentions automatically
#
aaronpk
... sending a "like" with quill
#
tantek
rhiaro++ for minuting the demos, and getting automatic webmentions working!
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 90 karma
#
aaronpk
... aww it didn't work! (I swear it worked)
#
aaronpk
(showing one from earlier)
#
aaronpk
.. when I post likes, replies, bookmarks, etc, it now sends webmentions automatically
#
aaronpk
... and the like shows up on aaron's site
#
Vendan
ugh, got really echoy
#
aaronpk
... also discovered loads of bugs in my "everything" and spent some time fixing htem
#
aaronpk
... I didn't want to post straight to twitter automatically, so I made a twitter intent button
#
aaronpk
... made it a retweet intent so others can use it, I delete the RT before posting
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
aaronpk
rhiaro can you take over again you're better ;)
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: sure ;P
#
rhiaro
Auli: webmentions for Jekyll
#
rhiaro
... uses JekMention
#
rhiaro
(^^ ?)
catsup joined the channel
#
tantek
hey I see adactio.com on the screen
#
tantek
who is demoing now?
#
tantek
???: shows Qualys SSL Labs F rating
#
tantek
worse than just http, claiming https when it's not
#
rhiaro
??: Improved HTTPS, managed to bring it up to a B. It's Plesk
#
tantek
… fixed a bunch, now gets a B
#
rhiaro
... need to improve
#
rhiaro
wishes everyone would wear their namebadge :p
#
tantek
What is Plesk?
#
rhiaro
... Then added microformats
#
rhiaro
... And wrote a blog post about this
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
tantek
blogging++
#
Loqi
blogging has 1 karma
#
killerog
only 1?
#
KevinMarks
glennjones: I made a tweet preview in noterlive.com - you can pinch that
snarfed joined the channel
#
rhiaro
Sebastian : Don't want to post to twitter first, half worked, half didn't.
#
rhiaro
... Known
#
rhiaro
... Errors with checkins POSSEing to foursquare
#
@t
#IndieWebCamp Germany demos are live on https://beta.takly.io/iwc and are amazing! #webmention #micropub #microformats2 (ttk.me t4b51)
(twtr.io/zGvtMbWCUo)
#
rhiaro
... RSVPing to events (this representation of my person is RSVPing) but theme doesn't display it
#
rhiaro
... Then had to write a privacy policy because you can't set up a foursquare application without that
#
rhiaro
... Then Bridgy
catsup joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... Don't get any webmentions back
#
rhiaro
... Seems to be a Known bug
#
Vendan
woot, http://vendaria.net/ is now running the initial build of my software now !
#
rhiaro
... Pictures working nicely
#
rhiaro
... Whole picture also gets posted to twitter natively
#
rhiaro
... Wrote a post about twitter integration being great, then twitter integration stopped working
#
rhiaro
... And changed site to be https
ttepasse and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... That might have caused a problem
#
rhiaro
... Outgoing everything is fine, incoming not everything works
#
rhiaro
... Happy I can post to my site instead of twitter
#
@jkphl
Fixed some long-term bugs of http://micrometa.jkphl.is today, now properly parsing nested http://schema.org #IndieWebCamp #microformats2
(twtr.io/zGwJs11Y5L)
#
rhiaro
Nick: New website for sockethub that breaks up all posts into markdown, and static site generator to create html
#
rhiaro
... Before it was one big html file, was getting a pita to update
#
rhiaro
... Added microformats markup to templates
#
rhiaro
... Worked on accepting webmentions and storing them in remotestorage
#
rhiaro
... Not quite done
#
rhiaro
... Using webmention.io for now
catsup joined the channel
#
rhiaro
... but not doing anything with them yet, want to make a script that whenever I rebuild site it fetches webmentions
#
rhiaro
... Still not sure what to do about sending webmentions
#
rhiaro
... Currently no state
#
rhiaro
... Don't want to send them every time I rerun build script
#
rhiaro
... Gotta figure out something graceful for that
#
aaronpk
Michiel
#
rhiaro
Michiel: Started building something to post to a limited audience
#
rhiaro
... Edited indiewebcamp wiki based on what I've been doing
#
rhiaro
... Idea is you have to sign in with indieauth to see a post
#
rhiaro
... Problem with webmention not being able to auth to verify
#
rhiaro
... Initially gets 401 saying they have to login
#
rhiaro
... Done in such a way that a machine can use a indieauth token as a bearer token
#
rhiaro
... And then done in the same way as feeds
#
rhiaro
s/as/for
#
Loqi
rhiaro meant to say: ... And then done in the same way for feeds
#
rhiaro
... Would be nice to also support putting the token in the url query string, so you could bookmark the feed with the query and any feed reader can retreive it
#
rhiaro
... And for micropub you post with 'recipients'
#
rhiaro
... Need to check a site supports recipients
#
rhiaro
... Display recipients so person reading knows who it went to and won't share
#
rhiaro
... And trying to make cozycloud, owncloud and known interoperable
#
rhiaro
... Will work on this at OuiShare next week
#
rhiaro
Aaaaany more demos?
#
rhiaro
Guess not
#
rhiaro
Success.
#
tantek
did adactio just make a joke about CMSs?
#
killerog
CMS FTW
#
rhiaro
TO BBQ
#
killerog
indiewebcamp++
#
Loqi
indiewebcamp has 5 karma
#
tantek
congrats everyone at IndieWebCamp Germany!
#
adactio
OMGWTFBBQ!
#
tantek
thanks organizers aaronpk adactio
#
rhiaro
tantek: "I guess that's why you use CMSes, to get done in one day what it's taken me a couple of years"
#
tantek
adactio++
#
killerog
don't forget rhiaro++
#
Loqi
adactio has 15 karma
#
tantek
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 799 karma
#
KevinMarks
is aaronpk's new quill up online?
sanduhrs and jansauer joined the channel
#
tantek
KevinMarks: the aaronpk develops, it's likely already live
#
aaronpk
KevinMarks: not yet unfortunately
#
tantek
lol oops ;)
#
aaronpk
i am not comfortable publishing it until it handles errors a little better
#
sanduhrs
Three more building blocks for a Drupal based IndieWeb:
#
@One2Ad_com
RT @t: #IndieWebCamp Germany demos are live on https://beta.takly.io/iwc and are amazing! #webmention #micropub #microformats2 (ttk.me t4b51)
(twtr.io/zGxMu2Fjmw)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek
hey Vendan - saw you were asking about microformats2 parsing earlier - I'm happy to help answer any questions!
#
Vendan
No real questions right now
#
Vendan
taking a little time to build a parser in golang while I'm working on my site software
#
KevinMarks
vendan - if you want another reference, see unmung,com that hosts the mf2py parser
#
tantek
nice Vendan!
#
Vendan
it's already able to parse some simple microformats stuff
#
Vendan
still gotta implement the value-class-pattern, but once I have that, p-* and u-* will be parsing correctly
#
Vendan
on top of the h-* stuff
#
@t
#IndieWebCamp Germany demos all done. They’re off to BBQ but see extensive notes by @rhiaro: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (ttk.me t4b52)
(twtr.io/zGxsoxa9wH)
#
Vendan
need to make 5 more repos on github just to push all the code I'm writing :)
#
tantek
Vendan - lots more references (to see what other parser do) here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
#
tantek
s/parser do/parsers do
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: Vendan - lots more references (to see what other parsers do) here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
#
Vendan
going through that, trying to get at least a general matchup
#
tantek
needs to incorporate resolved issues from microformats2-parsing-issues and accepted brainstorming from microformats2-parsing-brainstorming into microformats2-parsing
#
Jeena
thank Ryan Barrett and Kyle Mahan for bridgy, I don't think I would have the nerve to reimplement the whole Facebook POSSE with another shitty and non backwards compatible Facebook API
#
tantek
Vendan, that's a great test suite
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Vendan
my json is in a different order in some cases, but that's not really relevant
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tantek
Vendan the order of keys/fields does not matter, but array ordering does (since it reflects document order)
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Vendan
part of that is golang randomizes map iteration :D
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tantek
sounds useful for debugging :)
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Vendan
yeah, array ordering is fine
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Vendan
that's one of the reasons they do it, so you don't get caught out by a map always being in a certain order
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Vendan
cause a map doesn't have a defined order
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snarfed
Jeena: you're welcome! hope it's working ok
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Jeena
the first notes test worked gloriously! Now I'm adding it to the photos code too
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ben_thatmustbeme
Yeah, without bridgy a lot of us would not be syndicating to FB & twitter
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Loqi
snarfed has 102 karma
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Loqi
kylewm has 165 karma
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Jeena
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 103 karma
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Jeena
kylewm++
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snarfed
thanks guys!
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Loqi
slow down!
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Loqi
hahahaha
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh Loqi, you are so silly
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Loqi
yeah!
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GWG
We shouldn't forget kylewm. He is a large contributor to Bridgy
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GWG
Oh, good, we didn't
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ttepasse
Speaking of, what abou Loqi++?
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snarfed
speaking of which, kylewm made #bridgy recently, feel free to ask q's in there if we're there too and you don't want to spam this channel
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ben_thatmustbeme
that was supposed to say 'does rel="p-recipient h-card" really make sense?'
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Jeena
Neat, so I was able to fix FB Posse just two days before my South Korea journey where I guess I will post many photos and notes
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@rhiaro
RT @t: #IndieWebCamp Germany demos all done. They’re off to BBQ but see extensive notes by @rhiaro: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (ttk.me t4b52)
(twtr.io/zGzzsFW_A8)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: it does not. rel is only for page-scoped stuff. not microformats2 properties or root objects.
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GWG
Jeena: I have a month till my vacation. Better work on that.
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Jeena
hehe yeah!
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tantek
now was that an indie repost or just a twitter retweet rhiaro ? ;)
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rhiaro
It was a twitter retweet, I honestly tried to repost it myself but twitter wouldn't let me copy your url easily and I had my hands full :p
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rhiaro
and in related news, I think my micropub endpoint is mysteriously broken again
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rhiaro
So I've abandoned all food to investigate
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rhiaro
-> investigating
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rhiaro
howver, if I had, it *should* have sent you a webmention :p I'll try again shortly..
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tantek
rhiaro: I do have webactions setup on my permalinks - perhaps we can get that working to send an indieaction to your UI
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tantek
so that from the note on my site, you can click the "Repost" button/link, and have it pop open your posting UI
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rhiaro
back in 45 minutes
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snarfed
rhiaro: also feel free to check out https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses as a way to own your RTs of other people
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rhiaro
snarfed: I can already repost, just not right now..
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+307) "add link to IRC notes to start this off"
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+343) "start day demos and hack day demos"
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+851) "add adactio start day demo, start on aaronpk"
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tantek
well that's a start at least - hopefully other folks can jump in and help out!
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Vendan
microformats parser in golang that I'm working on: https://github.com/andyleap/microformats
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rhiaro
Yay, thanks for adding stuff to the wiki tantek!
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rhiaro
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 189 karma
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tantek
rhiaro: np - it's just a start - so much to capture! but I left links in place for others to help expand :)
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tantek
I'm also afraid I may get details wrong - since I'm interpreting logs/minutes
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tantek
whereas people who actually saw the demos may be able to add more detailed information
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rhiaro
I think I need to figure out what's up with my micropub endpoint then crash for a bit
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GWG
I'm trying to redesign my display code for various kinds of posts. I fear I'm ending up down a rabbit hole again
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Vendan
tantek, question for you, e-* properties get 2 values rather then the single value the others get. When a p-* is also a h-*, that property is nested with the p-* value in the nested microformat
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Vendan
is the e-* html stuff put in beside the value: in the nested microformat?
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tantek
Vendan - could you provide a brief markup example of what you mean?
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Vendan
not sure if it's valid, but something like <div class="h-entry"><div class="h-card e-content"></div></div>
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Vendan
I'm guessing the content property for the h-entry should be a microformat entry with a value: {value: "", html: ""}
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tantek
hmm - may help to add some content/markup to that in the middle
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tantek
e.g. <div class="h-entry"><div class="h-card e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div>
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tantek
let's try one of the existing parsers and see if it does something expected
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tantek
hmm - looks like an untested edge case
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tantek
both phpmf2 and mf2py fail to produce the html in the parsed output!
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tantek
this works in both: <div class="h-entry"><div class="e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div>
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ttepasse
The MF2-Algorithm doesn't use or care for the HTML lang attribute, do I see that correct?
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tantek
ttepasse: with the exception of the extra bit of rel parsing at the end which just collects the lang attribute, yes
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tantek
goes to file a couple of issues
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Vendan
so, what is the expected result?
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ttepasse
Hm. Even DOM doesn't seem to have a method for querying Nodes oder Elements for the inherited language. Strange.
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ttepasse
Ah. HTML has HTMLElement::lang, but crippled.
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tantek
Vendan: did you see how they parse <div class="h-entry"><div class="e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div> ? more like that
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tantek
e.g. right next to the "value": "Hello", you should see "html": "<p>Hello<\/p>",
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Vendan
ok, not nested in a dictionary under the value:
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Vendan
that makes it easier for me :)
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tantek
filing github issues on them now
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tantek
good job Vendan, already finding bugs in existing parsers :P
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Vendan
lol, just mentally brute-forcing all the code paths in my parser :D
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tantek
good to have you here Vendan :D
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tantek
got an email from Google about "Important notice for Master/Slave Datastore app owners on Google App Engine" that I really don't understand.
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tantek
anyone else get that email? snarfed? KevinMarks? kylewm?
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kylewm
weird, no
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tantek
it was sent 2015-04-20 - just found it
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tantek
I don't think I have any App Engine apps, and it was far too long to bother trying to understand, so I tl;dr'd it.
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tantek
the kind of email that should have been a blog post
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snarfed
tantek: agreed, if you don't run anything on app engine, you can ignore it
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snarfed
(there have been a number of blog posts too :P)
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tantek
email should have been brief and linked to the blog post for details / follow-up :P
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kirilind.me
edited /Jekmentions (+99) "add implementation example"
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Vendan
there, my library handles e-* on h-*
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tantek
Vendan - do you have a simple textarea based web UI for folks to try your library?
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tantek
e.g. like that for phpmf2: https://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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Vendan
not yet
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Vendan
just started work on it this morning :P
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Vendan
I'll see about throwing something together this afternoon
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Vendan
be back in a little
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tantek
me too
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kylewm
it'd be interesting to benchmark the performance of the mf2 parsers
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kylewm
i mean, i'm sure the mf2 bits are dominated by parsing html bits
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KevinMarks__
The difference between using html5lib and not?
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KevinMarks__
Tantek, should I add a textarea to unmung.com too
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tantek
helps with testing snippets of markup
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tantek
bboab
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