#indiewebcamp 2015-05-10

2015-05-10 UTC
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tefka for example, there does not seem to be a videochat software (like skype) which has this kind of philosophy and is easy to use
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KevinMarks_ well, talky.io is close - we use that a lot
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tefka true, some things come close .. but still
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GWG tefka: Video chatting is a hard one because of bandwidth.
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KevinMarks_ well, WebRTC is an indieweb friendly way of doing it, but you still need some STUN infrastucture
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tefka why is that GWG, the bandwidth is obviously there, since there are enough comercial applications that people use
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GWG tefka: Worldwide, not everyone has it. Most likely many people in here do though
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KartikPrabhu what is indieweb?
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Loqi The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb
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KartikPrabhu tefka: mostly because of focus on that ^
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tefka it is just that indieweb seems to be a pretty "new" thing and it does not seem to go all the way with "own your data/software"
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KevinMarks_ what is indieweb friendly?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb friendly" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indieweb+friendly&summary=prompted+by+KevinMarks_+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431216491129
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KevinMarks_ hm
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KevinMarks_ I thought we did
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tefka at least not yet
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tefka do you own talky.io's software ?
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KevinMarks_ tefka: well, if it's something you value, think about how to build it
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=8253 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc (pingback)
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@socialmediamond willnorris comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=8253 - #startup #trending #socialmedia #news #business #marketing #entrepreneur www… (twitter.com/_/status/597191962387730433)
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KartikPrabhu man what is up with these sites just reproducing other stuff.
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tefka I mean talky.io has to at least operate rendezvous servers and manage rooms/chats .. I dunno much about it though
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KartikPrabhu tefka: isn't that the trouble with video-chatting though? it is hard to do peer-to-peer video chatting without maintaining some intermediate central server thing
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tefka yea, hard as in impossible at the moment .. still, you guys apparently have a blog hosted on a server on your own "personal" domain, it would seem logical to host such an intermediate server as well
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KartikPrabhu a good intermediate is to figure out how to do text chats
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KartikPrabhu what is messaging?
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Loqi messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) https://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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tefka hasn't text already been solved with xmpp ?
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KartikPrabhu not site to site
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KartikPrabhu afaik
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kylewm http://moose-team.github.io/friends/ is a cool project working on p2p chat based on WebRTC (like talky)
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KartikPrabhu the question isn't about technology/plumbing but how to do text chats using your own domain
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kylewm sorry KartikPrabhu, a cool project working on chat that you can install on your own domain
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tefka *could* , but still uses github for identification
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KartikPrabhu tefka: one step at a time. it is not fair to ask for everything under the sun from any of these projects
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tefka sorry ^^
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KartikPrabhu most indieweb code has a github home
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tefka it seems the problems are 90% solved, and the remaining 10% is to put it onto your own domain and have it use that
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KartikPrabhu that is the hard 10%
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ben_thatmustbeme *reads back a little
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ben_thatmustbeme XMPP is an option but its a bit much to ask everyone to run their own XMPP server
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe specifying you xmpp user@server... but that gets in to the problems of spam and such
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ben_thatmustbeme would have to really dig in to more of XMPP to really say much more on the topic
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ben_thatmustbeme as to why is everything blog software, simple, its the easiest place to start
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm just now branching in to trying to own my contact list
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ben_thatmustbeme building up from follow/unfollow
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ben_thatmustbeme actually the first step is really using your domain as your identity
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ben_thatmustbeme anywhere that I can now, when i create an account, i use my domain name as my username
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ben_thatmustbeme thats step 1, and there really isn't much software needed for it outside of indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme although i worry we need more auth providers as it is a single point of failure at the moment.
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ben_thatmustbeme with a few notable exceptions, we all use it
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ben_thatmustbeme also, i'm not officially rambling
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ben_thatmustbeme s/not/now/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: also, i'm now officially rambling
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GWG I'm fine with your rambling if you accept mine. We all ramble sometime or another.
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GWG I'm trying to see how many people I can annoy with my code styling, it seems.
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Vendan question, I'm building my own indieweb compliant blog software, following http://indiewebify.me/
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Vendan does it make sense to use indieauth.com or similar for my own login to my site?
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GWG Vendan: Indieauth is a tool. You can roll your own authentication if you wanted. Your choice
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Vendan lol, honestly, I'm sick of rolling web auth stuff. Considering it's just me logging in, a simple hardcoded check or similar wouldn't be that bad.
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kylewm Vendan: indieauth is maybe slightly harder than rolling your own password-based authentication if you just have one user. the payoff comes if you want to allow others to sign in to your site
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kylewm (but really only slightly)
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GWG Vendan: You don't need to reinvent the wheel.
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GWG Using a preexisting library, for example, is not against the Indieweb principles
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Vendan there really isn't a preexisting library, tbh
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Vendan at least nothing I'd be interested in using
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GWG That is a problem
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Vendan programming in golang, and really, even if I went as far as actually doing hashes and such, its not like it's a massive amount of code
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GWG But someone has to be the trendsetter
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Vendan preexisting library for a simple password auth system?
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Vendan 80% of it is just templates to render...
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Vendan I'm just not going to go overboard with email verification and password recovery tokens
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GWG Vendan, I don't know much about golang.
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Vendan it's a lot of fun :)
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Vendan trying to build as simple of a blog as possible
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Vendan 2~3 files to install on about any platform
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Vendan including most shared hosting
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Vendan plus, even a $5 DO droplet would be overkill
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GWG I just finished feeling comfortable with PHP.
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Vendan probably make a "multi-user" version, like wordpress.com
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Vendan but with the distinction that a there's a single file to download that'll contain your whole blog, and you can just push that up to another host, and boom, there's your blog again
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ben_thatmustbeme i think the advantage of indieauth is really being able to use a number of micropub clients that assume you are using some sort of auth endpoint complient with indieauth
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Vendan yeah, I get that
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ben_thatmustbeme I use it for login to my own site (single user)
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Vendan interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme the only thing is a need to bootstrap so you can get those initial configs (twitter/FB/github/etc) links to allow it to work
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ben_thatmustbeme also as I stated, i'm concerned that there is only 1 indieauth. we really need to use multiple as the docs on indieauth.com are rather the shortcut method that will mean it will only work for sites using indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme but if you are designing just for the site owner itself, thats not really an issue
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Vendan do you have any stuff where other users can log in for any reason, or is it just your access to your own admin panel?
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Vendan one question with the indieauth approach is that if indieauth.com goes down, everyone who's using it has to rewrite their stuff to use a new service
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Vendan one reason I'm leaning away from it for my use
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ben_thatmustbeme so I did have stuff for others to get extra info if they are logged in to my site
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ben_thatmustbeme i recently made that section public anyway though
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ben_thatmustbeme also if others log in to my site they can get links to edit their own comments (through mp-config)
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ben_thatmustbeme also they can use my micropub client if they want
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ben_thatmustbeme Vendan: I agree, except i believe indieauth.com is open source
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ben_thatmustbeme so you could easily fork it and make your own
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ben_thatmustbeme and it should be fully compliant
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Vendan it is, but no matter what, existing sites would need to rewrite code to use the new "gateway", unless you managed to get the "indieauth.com" domain name
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ben_thatmustbeme its literally a 1 line change
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Vendan I have a tendency to write code that can be used by anyone, and I don't want to lock people out of their accounts cause a third-party site went down
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GWG Actually, if I remember correctly, the existing sites are supposed to get authentication server info from the page itself.
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ben_thatmustbeme its just changing the html to point to a different auth endpoint
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
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GWG The protocol says that it looks for a link to the authorization endpoint. If people aren't implementing discovery, that owuld be on them.
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Vendan ahh, that's not as bad, but still an issue
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ben_thatmustbeme it would be entirely possible to use the indieauthprotocol with just a fixed password, ignore the rel-me-auth part
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Vendan cause it's still my site that has the auth link and such
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ben_thatmustbeme and it would not take long to write up
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ben_thatmustbeme i wonder if we should allow multiple auth endpoints
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ben_thatmustbeme to allow for failover
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GWG Well, the protocol falls over onto indieauth
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GWG Why not be able to specify it?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: ben_thatmustbeme yup, sorry, your twitter bridgy acct is broken right now due to that Unicode url
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Loqi slack/snarfed: tracked in <https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/402>
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed: I'm always breaking stuff
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Loqi slack/snarfed: heh np. PRs welcome for fixing stuff too! :P
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ben_thatmustbeme actually you don't ping the auth endpoint until you redirect the user there... i think you are right about being able to maybe select auth endpoints if there are multiple listed
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Vendan urgh, unicode issues :P
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed... not a python guy... wouldn't know where to start honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme well... i would know where to start
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ben_thatmustbeme but it would not be a quick fix for me
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Loqi slack/snarfed: np!
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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GWG Good evening, tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme evening tantek
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next is 20th!" (view diff)
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GWG Speaking of HWC...People who have been to HWCs, what sort of food venue is good for them, considering I can't get a centrally located non-food venue.
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+15) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next is 2015-05-20" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, cafe style - where you order at the counter separately
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GWG tantek: Makes me think of Schnippers, that place we ate at during IWC NYC
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+260) "/* Planning Questions */ What kind of food venue is works well?" (view diff)
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GWG Hmm...that might work
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tantek GWG, I'm adding your questions to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Planning_Questions :)
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GWG It's centrally located, easy to get to...
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tantek GWG, is there an indie event for the NYC 2015-05-20 HWC?
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GWG tantek: I added the Facebook one, but not the Indie one. I still haven't coded events into my site
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tantek GWG, ok no problem. Are events on your site an itch for you, at least as a Homebrew Website Club organizer? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Itches
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: XMPP is quite problematic. It's a massive spec that no one has ever fully implemented, that there's no comprehensive (or even feature covering) test suite for, and which everyone (who bothers to) implements only part.
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GWG tantek: Not until I attend more of them.
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GWG That's why I started on check-in...
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tantek GWG, but as an organizer, it's better if you post an indie event and make the FB event the POSSE copy :)
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tantek So it's gotta at least be a lower priority itch for you ;)
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tantek what is XMPP?
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Loqi Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) is an open messaging standard, perhaps best known in its use for cross-platform instant-messaging application interoperability https://indiewebcamp.com/XMPP
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GWG !tell zachdonovan tantek gave me, inadvertently, a good venue idea
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /XMPP (+352) "Issues" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: My next project is refining my existing projects to be in line with the WordPress developer standards while making some improvements. I will likely be laying the groundwork for further post kinds in there, so I can use the Post UI I just built to input them.
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Vendan does anyone use bootstrap for their indieweb stuff?
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GWG Not specifically.
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Vendan I really suck as a designer, so my site's ui is currently extremely minimal :)
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tantek Vendan, I believe Known used to and is in the process of abandoning it becacuse bootstrap is too much of a pain to evolve / iterate :(
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Vendan lol, I can see that
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+579) "/* Structure */ before the event, create event(s), invite etc." (view diff)
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tantek GWG, see https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Beforehand
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Vendan I've got a very template friendly system so far, so I'm not terribly worried about changing stuff like that
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Vendan brb
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tantek GWG, in particular, could you set the HWC NYC FB event header photo to: http://indiewebcamp.com/images/5/5d/im-attending-indiewebcamp.png like the way that Kyle did for the previous HWC SF? https://www.facebook.com/events/868304959882663/
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tantek (and yes I added that to the organizer instructions on /hwc )
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GWG Done
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: xmpp sounds like push in that regard. . A giant spec that never gets fully implemented
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+398) "/* Beforehand */ link FB POSSE copy to wiki" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is *tiny* compared to XMPP
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tantek Thanks GWG
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tantek GWG, next, at the end of the description in the FB event, link to the indiewebcamp wiki page for the event, e.g. like: "More information: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club "
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme Oh wow. THAT big huh?
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is a very small spec, just in general
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kylewm tantek: Vendan: Known is moving to Bootstrap 3
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@JimVajda I HATE and refuse to use software that locks-in user data. Fitness apps are among the worst. Luckily there is @tapiriik. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/597229063867133952)
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ben_thatmustbeme Btw. Started working on setting up my site for '(un)follow' via micropub
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tantek hey kylewm! Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for HWC SF 2015-05-20 as well? (I'm going to be in NYC, so maybe Creamery again?)
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kylewm sure
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tantek thanks!
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GWG tantek: Maybe if you are there, the RSVPers will show.
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tantek GWG - I'm going to both invite people on the FB event and message them personally
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kylewm Vendan: aaronpk uses bootstrap a lot, too. aaronparecki.com, quill.p3k.io, monocle.p3k.io, etc.
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tantek and I'm going to invite the entire CSS Working Group
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kylewm also https://brid.gy
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tantek kylewm, hmm that sounds like it's worth capturing...
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tantek what is Bootstrap?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Bootstrap" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Bootstrap&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431225570888
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kylewm just checked, I was surprised by that^
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tantek sounds like you know of a lot of IndieWeb Examples as well
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Vendan http://getbootstrap.com/ css and js for programmers to use for making decent designs
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tantek kylewm: surprised about Known using BS3. I know Ben & Erin's new not-so-secret project does not use Bootstrap. The podcast thing.
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Vendan ugh, so many pretty designs. Could not make anything close :P
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kylewm tantek: interesting! I didn't realize wavelist wasn't... http://known.co/ does use bootstrap too
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tantek kylewm: yes they have a lot of early usage for it - but my understanding from last time I spoke with Ben in person is that they're trying hard to move away from it.
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kylewm Bootstrap is a large collection of boilerplate HTML and CSS styles and components originally developed by Twitter. http://getbootstrap.com
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loqi.me created /Bootstrap (+165) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431225570888 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Vendan one of my main complaints with bootstrap is that you wind up with a semantic class and multiple display classes
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GWG Vendan: You shouldn't style basic on a semantic class.
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Vendan why not?
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GWG Standards change.
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Vendan i.e. why not style based on h-entry?
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GWG Design and structure are different things
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tantek Vendan, it depends. For a quick deployment of a site you don't expect to restructure / iterate much (if at all), you can totally get away with styling semantic classes (e.g. h-entry)
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Vendan then you'll need to change the h-entry, and with any kind of decent css preprocessor, that change takes 30 seconds to change in your css
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GWG If you are starting from scratch, better to plan from the beginning.
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tantek However, if you end up iterating a bunch on your site (with design etc.) you will have to do a lot more work.
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GWG I'm trying to get hfeed out of the most common base for WordPress themes and find a way to get hentry out of WordPress the way it is implemented in a way they'll except.
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GWG I may be trying to convince them of the same...semantic markup shouldn't be styled.
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GWG accept, not except, excuse me
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tantek Vendan - in practice a bunch of us have been bitten by this - so it's not just 30 seconds of change - especially depending on what your CSS rules are like
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tantek the other scenario, which GWG points out, is multi-person development.
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tantek If more than one person is working on the HTML and/or CSS for a site, then it's even more important to separate classes for styling and *purely* semantic classes.
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GWG I use WordPress, and I've rewritten my theme three times in the last year.
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GWG And I'm still rewriting it, because I discovered a mistake.
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Vendan interesting, most of the articles I've seen talk about the exact opposite
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kylewm.com edited /Bootstrap (+592) "add detail to description and IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/05/homebrew-website-club-2015-may-20 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm Vendan: have you tried logging into the indiewebcamp.com wiki yet with your domain?
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Vendan nope, my domain isn't running my indieweb stuff yet
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Vendan developing locally, cause having an IDE rocks :)
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tantek Vendan, yes, a lot of us wrote articles like that in the past :/
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tantek it took a while, and many iterations of changing markup and style sheets to figure this out
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Vendan the main thing that I see is that if I just styled the right semantic classes, I could drop replys and such in my markup without too much effort, other then a basic sanitization
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tantek Vendan, yes, in theory (and in practice initially) you can get pretty far with that approach
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Vendan if I have my own class names for styles, I have to process those replys to insert my class names
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tantek you shouldn't be putting others markup in your page anyway! that's an XSS vulnerability
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+168) "/* Where */ add SF venue" (view diff)
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Vendan uhm, I sanitize, thank you very much
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+73) "/* URLs */ add urls" (view diff)
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Vendan heck, with the sanitization library I use, I can go all the way down to "only allow these specific classes on divs"
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tantek Vendan, which sanitization library?
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Vendan https://github.com/microcosm-cc/bluemonday
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Vendan it's rather hardcore in the standard mode, I'd actually be relaxing it some to allow those classes through
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tantek nice name :)
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Vendan lol
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Vendan it's "meant" to be paired with blackfriday, a golang markdown processor
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tantek not a New Order reference?
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Vendan oh, it is
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tantek.com created /sanitization (+22) "r" (view diff)
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Vendan https://github.com/microcosm-cc/bluemonday/issues/12#issuecomment-83593192
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tantek.com edited /sanitize (+35) "more dfn terms" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /sanitize (+70) "/* Approaches */ add bluemonday sanitization library" (view diff)
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tantek cool. added it here: https://indiewebcamp.com/sanitize
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tantek Vendan, have you signed into the wiki with your personal domain?
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Vendan lol, hopefully I'll be adding my software to that wiki in the next couple of days
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Vendan heh, not yet, my software is only running on my desktop right now
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kylewm Heh tantek i just asked them that
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Vendan I'm just rather hardcore on efficient code, and php and similar is too much of a bloat to install on my vps
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Vendan and I'm not touching WP with a 20-foot pool
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Vendan I guess I could just put up a temporary index.html on my domain though
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Vendan there, logged in
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tantek Vendan++ for just getting it done with a simple index.html
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Loqi Vendan has 1 karma
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Vendan well, I really just edited my current hugo static blog, but I'm going to replace the whole thing with my own software soon :)
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Vendan vendaria.net
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tantek next go ahead and add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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tantek and if you add an image, it will show up next to your statements in the logs: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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vendaria.net edited /IRC_People (+52) "Adding myself" (view diff)
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tantek Vendan: are you in New York City by any chance? Next event there is in a week and half: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Vendan actually in NC, wish I could show up to events
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Vendan new york is just timezone :(
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GWG Vendan: I'm trying to get the NY meeting up and coming. You could always find some friends and start something in NC?
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Vendan I'll see about it, if anyone is interested at the local hackerspaces
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Vendan heh, there isn't anything golang obvious on https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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Vendan I get to be first :)
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tantek Vendan - I think sandro wrote a webmention handler in golang at IWC Cambridge 2014
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tantek let me check the demos
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Vendan well, I'm aiming for full blogish type stuff
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Vendan would be useful, depending on licensing
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tantek I'd guess it was pretty open, sandro works for W3C
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Vendan is there any kind of recommended licensing? I usually go MIT or AGPL
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tantek Vendan, lots of MIT/BSD/CC0
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tantek found it - sandro worked on code to import old LJ posts, using Go http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-12#t1413150688156
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tantek from LJ's XML export
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tantek but I can't find any record of the code being posted online so ...
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tantek go for it Vendan :)
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Vendan lol
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Vendan using a lot of stuff I worked on for my wiki, so the first bit of it is rather simple
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Vendan kicking myself for not pushing it all to github yet, cause I'm away from my main desktop
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Vendan heh, that micropub stuff is neat
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GWG Vendan: Isn't it?
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Vendan there's so many small, relatively easy to implement little "features" on the indieweb stuff that just adds up to a massive "holy crap that's awesome" when it all works together
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tantek what are building blocks?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/building-blocks
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GWG Vendan: That's why we like it.
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tantek kylewm, GWG I've invited a bunch of people to the FB events for the next HWC
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tantek get ready for the Bridgy invitation flood! (assuming that still works / got fixed)
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GWG As soon as I talk to zachdonovan, time to confirm a venue/time
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snarfed tantek: not yet, in progress. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/397
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Vendan heh, makes me want to get a shared hosting account again, just so I can get the fastcgi stuff working right with golang
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GWG snarfed: I'm still having trouble with backfeed from bridgy.
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snarfed GWG: ruh roh, sorry
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snarfed still?
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snarfed which silo(s)?
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GWG snarfed: Facebook. On the user page, it says it found no post links. But in the log, it found the u-syndication links.
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snarfed have you re-authed recently?
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GWG So, if it found both, why is it not sending the webmentions?
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GWG snarfed: Not recently. Should I?
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snarfed 0-
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snarfed er, yes, please. 2.x api apocalypse. :/ https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/394 and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/401
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GWG Where is the reauth again?
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snarfed um, front page
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GWG IT is finding the responses, but it isn't sending webmentions, even though it says it is saving the relationship
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snarfed looking
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snarfed GWG: i don't actually see that it's finding syndication urls
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snarfed maybe the log messages are misleading
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snarfed it's *looking* for them for each FB post url, not finding anything, and saving a blank relnship
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snarfed ah, looks like your syndication URLs use your nickname instead of your id: https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1431230515&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyIQsSDEZhY2Vib29rUGFnZSIPMTAwMDAyMzU2NTAzMTY3DA
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GWG snarfed: They are coming from SNAP automatically that way.
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snarfed bridgy has limited support (or maybe none) for FB syndication URLs w/nicknames right now, due to 2.x API apocalypse
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GWG Can't win, I guess
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snarfed sorry :(
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snarfed if you can get the synd urls in there with your user id, it will work
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GWG I just found it.
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snarfed FB 2.x API literally prevents us from mapping nicknames to user ids and vice versa
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GWG There's a setting in SNAP for it
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350
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GWG What about the user telling you what the username is?
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GWG So, now that I changed the links...will it ever rescan?
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snarfed sure, of course! every 2h
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GWG Okay. That should work
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snarfed i can't say i'd prioritize letting users input usernames
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GWG snarfed: At least I found a setting to override it. I didn't realize it was there.
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snarfed we're kind of burnt out on bending over backwards to handle FB's breaking API changes
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snarfed good!
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GWG I was thinking of trying petermolnar's project
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GWG https://wordpress.org/plugins/keyring-reactions-importer/
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tantek !tell aaronpk how's the realtime display of responses (comments, likes, reposts) working on your notes? I remember something was broken last october - haven't checked since.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG snarfed: I wish people would respond more elsewhere
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Vendan does realtime display include ajaxy updates while on the page, or just better then static site generation?
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tantek Vendan - better than just Ajaxy updates - updates from the server via websockets!
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Vendan ahh, neat
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tantek what is realtime?
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Loqi Realtime is a well-defined software field where computing has to complete or fail cleanly by a deadline, because latency is paramount https://indiewebcamp.com/Realtime
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Vendan though also, ugh, as I hate js
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tantek well that page is not very useful
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Vendan that's the embedded programming and such def. of realtime
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GWG snarfed: I wanted to mention I stabilized the webaction handler. You'd just have to add a filter and a hook to store it in your preferred formats and open up the closed types.
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tantek.com edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+35) "see also, linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /comments-presentation (+24) "see also realtime" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /Realtime to /realtime "decap term"
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snarfed GWG: great!
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tantek.com edited /realtime (+193) "link to specific examples" (view diff)
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Vendan that's also more complex, as websocket isn't really compatible with fastcgi and such
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GWG snarfed: And the category code has a filter. And should be familiar. You wrote the original version. I borrowed the logic you created for micropub that looks for categories, if not, saves as tags.
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snarfed nice!
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GWG I just couldn't decide on whether I wanted to write display code when I had it in Post Kinds. So I tabled that. But I made sure it would work without it.
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@hmans @nd_cmptr Wobei ich den einen ja auf seine Art wirklich spot-on finde. Wir sind alle indoktriniert und IndieWeb verkauft sich oft schlecht. (twitter.com/_/status/597258141911412737)
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GWG It is also using OpenGraph to get data, instead of microformats. Which I am only partly ashamed of.
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GWG Most of the news sites I read had no microformats
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tantek GWG, do you ever bookmark indieweb posts? or only news sites?
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GWG tantek: More news sites. But, I decided that, after that trouble, I would add microformats during a later update
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tantek GWG, sounds good
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tantek what was the data quality like of the OpenGraph data?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "data quality like of the OpenGraph data" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=data+quality+like+of+the+OpenGraph+data&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431232628434
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tantek lol sorry
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GWG tantek: I parsed dozens of sites to come up with the 'rules' for extraction.
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tantek GWG, oh dear that sounds like scraping almost :/
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tantek hopefully with microformats you can just follow the /link-preview tips
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GWG tantek: Not exactly. The fields are there for people to use to get info about the page
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GWG I parsed dozens of sites to see who was using what, more than anything else.
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GWG I kept throwing URLs at it.
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GWG For example, tantek.com, as you know, has none of that markup.
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GWG aaronpk appears to be putting the entire post into both the title and description opengraph fields.
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GWG But newspapers are giving me suggested tags, description...rarely author name...
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GWG So, I figured if I merge that with microformats support, I should be able to get link previews for most things.
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GWG Maybe I should document this.
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GWG What is OpenGraph?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OpenGraph" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=OpenGraph&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431233135645
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GWG Open Graph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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GWG OpenGraph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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loqi.me created /OpenGraph (+109) "prompted by GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431233135645 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG I'll go fix that
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david.shanske.com edited /OpenGraph (+488) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com moved /OpenGraph to /opengraph "Case"
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david.shanske.com edited /opengraph (+509) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (-50) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+131) "/* Wordpress Development */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu Vendan: I use mf2 classes to style without trouble (so far)
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KartikPrabhu GWG: isn't OpenGraph facebook specific?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: No. Facebook is just its most popular supporter. Twitter uses it as well. And it is an open standard.
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KartikPrabhu ok
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tantek__ GWG, always worth searching the wiki before creating. Note /OGP and other pages there already. Just missed the "OpenGraph" variant
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GWG Oops
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GWG I'll go fix it
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tantek__ Perhaps redirect /OpenGraph to existing page and add your new content there?
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david.shanske.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+1109) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /opengraph () "(-1069) Redirected page to [[The-Open-Graph-protocol]]" (view diff)
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GWG There you are
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@kartik_prabhu @ThatEmil the way I do it in Django is to have Response model that stores the URL to which the webmention ... more: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/emilbjorklund-django-webmention (twitter.com/_/status/597278535926026240)
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@btconf Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for everybody! (twitter.com/_/status/597279277906792448)
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@Renaade @MarcoZehe danke, der Mann muss arbeiten und ich vergnüge mich gleich beim #indiewebcamp ;) (twitter.com/_/status/597282461928796160)
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@webgefrickel RT @btconf: Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for every… (twitter.com/_/status/597293075577360385)
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tantek thanks GWG!
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tantek.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+164) "consolidate a bit, see also microformats, link-preview, linky linky, more subheads, expand dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /comments-presentation (-20) "/* in realtime */ rm dup see also, linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /real-time (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /realtime (+33) "/* Examples */ better labels" (view diff)
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@nixsiow How to set up web sign-in on your own domain - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain#st_refDomain=&st_refQuery= http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain#st_refDomain=&st_refQuery= (twitter.com/_/status/597301531206094848)
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KevinMarks_ should the main page have germany at the top instead of cambridge?
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@Renaade Day 2 of #indiewebcamp (@ sipgate GmbH - @sipgatede in Düsseldorf) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/kTYzDrTbpXY https://twitter.com/Renaade/status/597302794459164672/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597302794459164672)
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@nixsiow IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/#st_refDomain=&st_refQuery= http://indiewebify.me/#st_refDomain=&st_refQuery= (twitter.com/_/status/597302877711892480)
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tantek KevinMarks - yes - I think it just slipped through the cracks
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@Renaade Frrrrühstüüüück #IndieWebCamp bei @sipgateDE https://twitter.com/Renaade/status/597304859386339328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597304859386339328)
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@opansxyz RT @Renaade: Frrrrühstüüüück #IndieWebCamp bei @sipgateDE https://twitter.com/Renaade/status/597304859386339328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597305336614297600)
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tantek !tell KevinMarks just pinged aaronpk about home page update to IWC Germany - if it's something obvious to you like that, feel free to fix it!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@johannesdachsel Let's kick off day two! #IndieWebCamp #btconf https://twitter.com/johannesdachsel/status/597307174579281920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597307174579281920)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-174) "update next to germany" (view diff)
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rhiaro timezones--
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Loqi timezones has -8 karma
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aaronpk on the other hand,
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aaronpk timezones++
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Loqi timezones has -7 karma
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 29 minutes ago: how's the realtime display of responses (comments, likes, reposts) working on your notes? I remember something was broken last october - haven't checked since. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431231742445
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aaronpk hmm i don't know actually, i think i fixed the bug but not totally sure
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tantek aaronpk - having comments show up on your posts in realtime is definitely worth demoing every opportunity you get
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@jkphl #IndieWebCamp day 2 earlybirds starting early @sipgateDE +@bastianallgeier @glennjones #btconf https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597309192928636928/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597309192928636928)
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aaronpk good call
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tantek.com edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+166) "dfn and superseded with better docs" (view diff)
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rhiaro For anyone watching, main subcamps at IWC Dusseldorf day 2 seem to be adding microformats, webmentions, UI stuff, and a few people adding or improving micropub endpoints
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tantek.com moved /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed to /How_to_set_up_PuSH_with_Atom
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aaronpk hacking begins!
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fkooman hacking++
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Loqi hacking has 1 karma
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tantek.com edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+11) "redir to PuSH 0.4 + h-entry - now that it works" (view diff)
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fkooman i'll be available for https/indiecert support. See also my blog post from last night on https: https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/blog/https.html
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_set_up_PuSH_with_Atom (+46) "see also new PuSH page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+60) "add explicit How section linking to separate page on it" (view diff)
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tantek hacking++
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Loqi hacking has 2 karma
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fkooman is there anyone with php-fpm + apache experience? it seems to be a disaster to get it working in a secure/reliable way :(
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aaronpk secure/reliable? why are those related?
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aaronpk i normally set up fpm with nginx, but i might be able to help
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fkooman aaronpk, they are not really related, but both are important :)
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fkooman it should have been secure & reliable
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fkooman i.e. not run out of sockets after 5 concurrent users etc. :)
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fkooman https://wiki.apache.org/httpd/PHP-FPM
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aaronpk ooh yeah, you should be able to find that knid of stuff by googling without too much trouble. i don't know the specifics of how apache and fpm work together
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@sipgateDE RT @Renaade: Day 2 of #indiewebcamp (@ sipgate GmbH - @sipgatede in Düsseldorf) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/kTYzDrTbpXY https://twitter.com/Renaade/status/597302794459164672/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597322374611116032)
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killerog aaronpk: the link to the documentation on the success page at indieauth.com seems broken. Goes to: https://indieauth.com/documentation
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aaronpk oh darn, thanks
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killerog np
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aaronpk killerog: this is you? https://github.com/killerog
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killerog yup
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fkooman aaronpk, is it intentional that if you put your PGP key on your site and link to it, it cannot be a relative URL? I have to use <link href="/fkooman/fkooman.asc" rel="pgpkey"> instead of just "fkooman.asc"
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fkooman indieauth.com will not detect it otherwise...
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aaronpk that is not intentional, no
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aaronpk feel free to file a bug
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Jeena is there a API for posting to Facebook via brid.gy?
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aaronpk bridgy publish
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aaronpk how would people feel about a micropub request for creating a blog post coming in with inline images? e.g. <img src="data:.....
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aaronpk cause if I don't do anything with this, that's what's going to happen
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Jeena oh wow, it even honors u-photo
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Jeena impressive, I guess at least for Facebook it is time to move on from FbGraph to brid.gy
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aaronpk I really want the image positioning thingy that comes with the medium editor
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killerog :)
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aaronpk has anyone written a lorem ipsum generator for generating code samples?
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fkooman jansauer, https://github.com/fkooman/indiecert/blob/master/docker/indiecert.example.org-httpd.conf#L56
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:fb-private-post-2015.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /private_posts (+35) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronpk michielbdejong: example of facebook showing the audience of a private post http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts#Silo_Examples
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LukasRos aaronpk, rhiaro and anyone else who’s publishing like/repost/reply-markup on their site - please help me test and create a like, repost or reply for http://lukasrosenstock.net/post/59359549 and send a webmention.
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rhiaro LukasRos: juuust as soon as I'm sending webmentions automatically (soon hopefully!)
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raucao yay http://updates.kip.pe/
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raucao no ssl yet, because our reseller decided to launch a new control panel that has broken CSR parsing
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raucao lolssl
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raucao (or rather tls)
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raucao someone wants to comment and like and stuff?
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raucao don't have a second site for testing
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Loqi [mention] Sebastian Kippe RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (http://updates.kip.pe/2015/untitled)
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fkooman raucao, i sent a webmention!
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fkooman raucao, https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/4b76c0c7ec03c142c8f2973591bdfed4
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raucao fkooman: cool, thx
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fkooman did you get it?
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raucao apparently http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany doesn't have the event marked up
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raucao anyone knows if there's a marked up version of this event so i can try rsvping?
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fkooman raucao, you can also login to https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/ and try yourself, you can post html and links and stuff :)
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aaronpk raucao: i see an h-event on that page
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aaronpk er, h-entry
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rhiaro LukasRos: http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/1431254920
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fkooman raucao, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/webmention/ <-- nice for Firefox! :)
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raucao fkooman: nice!
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aaronpk ah i see what you mean, that is confusing, because every wiki page gets an h-entry added by the wiki
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raucao fkooman: known apparently didn't get it
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aaronpk this one has an h-event as a child http://indiewebcamp.com/2015
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raucao i might have to activate webmentions somehow
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fkooman raucao, hmmm maybe, dunno
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LukasRos rhiaro + aaronpk: Thanks!
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aaronpk i also made an h-event on my site, much simpler markup http://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/05/09/1/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk \o/
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raucao that almost worked
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raucao :)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: rhiaro, whats going on with micropub endpoints there?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: not sure other than mine keeps sometimes not working for currently unknown reasons
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rhiaro >:(
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aaronpk michielbdejong is experimenting with adding a "recipient" property to publish a post to a limited audience
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@mxstbr #ST4I and #IndieWebCamp lunch! @btconf https://twitter.com/mxstbr/status/597357707922907136/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597357707922907136)
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: thats unfortunate. is your code open source?
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: cool! that will be quite interesting to see
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@glennjones @tristanbailey @adactio yes @indiewebcamp going well, now on second day in dusseldorf. Adding lots of new features to our web sites (twitter.com/_/status/597359500719448064)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: re images inline, at that point you are just posting HTML source, which is fine, but the post isn't exactly the image post
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: https://ben.thatmustbe.me/new?type=article&url=https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/10/1/d%C3%BCsseldorf
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ben_thatmustbeme so if anything i'd say all we need is a mp-body-encoding=html or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme allows for markdown, etc
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aaronpk i need to update my micropub endpoint to allow posting HTML content when creating an article
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aaronpk i'm not sure if that should be specified in the micropub request, or controlled by my micropub endpoint
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aaronpk but i still have a bunch of UI work to figure out first
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aaronpk methinks we should get a microformats h-entry parser as a pull request into here https://github.com/itteco/iframely
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rhiaro aaronpk: when webmention.io gets a wm to a target with a source it's already seen, does it drop it completely?
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rhiaro ie it de-dups
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rhiaro or does it check if the source has changed since last time?
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rhiaro and then drop if it hasn't?
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk i believe it always reparses it
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aaronpk it only sends an IRC notification the first time it gets a mention tho
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fkooman aaronpk, i'm waiting for that yes, to be able to use quill to post HTML to micropub endpoint :-)
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fkooman then i can move my blog over to that :-)
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aaronpk ah nice
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aaronpk you're gonna love this editor then :)
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fkooman awesome :D
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aaronpk time for messing with localforage
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@danielpietzsch Adding h-entry Microformat markup to this blog #IndieWebCamp http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118601543603/adding-h-entry-microformat-markup-to-this-blog#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/597370552781778944)
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@skddc Setting up Known at #indiewebcamp. You might even see this on Twitter. http://updates.kip.pe/2015/setting-up-known-at-indiewebcamp-you-might-even-see-this (twitter.com/_/status/597370667764441088)
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raucao my first POSSE http://updates.kip.pe/2015/setting-up-known-at-indiewebcamp-you-might-even-see-this https://twitter.com/skddc/status/597370667764441088
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@skddc Setting up Known at #indiewebcamp. You might even see this on Twitter. http://updates.kip.pe/2015/setting-up-known-at-indiewebcamp-you-might-even-see-this (twitter.com/_/status/597370667764441088)
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aaronpk \o/
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raucao nice, likes and replies are also published automatically
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raucao aaand replied back directly on twitter.com via known firefox service. i think i reached my goal for today :)
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raucao oops, sry for spamming the channel. hadn't seen the twitter bot thing
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118601543603 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118601543603 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started#Add_microformats_to_your_content (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118524159623 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118507175853 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (webmention)
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raucao fkooman: http://updates.kip.pe/2015/hi-there-
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raucao doesn't appear on https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/4b76c0c7ec03c142c8f2973591bdfed4
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raucao probably intentional
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raucao but maybe you received a webmention?
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fkooman i am fixing my webmention suppot now
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fkooman so it shows next to the posts if it is mentioned, i just have to figure out stupid htaccess to send the link header
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LukasRos Yay, incoming webmentions are working now and nicely displayed along with replies from app.net. See example here: http://lukasrosenstock.net/post/59359549
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@bastianallgeier @bastianallgeier just a web mentions test http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/597376542436634624)
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LukasRos All source is on GitHub in case you want to look at my webmentions implementation: https://github.com/LukasRos/phpADNSite/
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fkooman raucao, i'm using the firefox webmention plugin to send webmentions, but it doesn't log anything...so hard to know what is going on
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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fkooman hmm apache rewrites throw away the headers you set, useful
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raucao fkooman: i'll try to set up better logging on mine
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raucao also, URLs will change in a few minutes because https :/
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aaronpk send redirects!
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raucao of course
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fkooman hmm i can receive webmentions now and they are shown next to the posts now, but the webmention addon in firefox does not work :/
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raucao ah
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raucao lucky for me, that means known's webmention support might not be broken :)
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@bastianallgeier Could please someone do me a favour and fav this tweet. Got to try something out. Will be deleted later. http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/597378171340750850)
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Vendan hrm, gonna need to come up with a name for my software
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raucao fkooman: can you send another mention to that post?
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raucao or any post for that matter
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fkooman i just did :)
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raucao :)
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fkooman but not sure it works, because it doesn't work for me...
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fkooman maybe the webmention addon only looks at the html and not the http headers...
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raucao yer, can't see anything
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fkooman can you try and send me one?
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raucao yup
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fkooman also doesn't work it seems ;)
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raucao done
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fkooman raucao, ah okay:) still didn't get anything...i also get an email :)
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@bastianallgeier Thank you guys!!! You can see the wip here: http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions BTW: I love web mentions :D (twitter.com/_/status/597380742566551552)
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michielbdejong.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+139) "/* Protocol Flow */ idea: IndieAuth login screen instead of 401" (view diff)
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killerog Could somebody try to send me a webmention? http://www.killerog.com/blog/2015/05/09/hello-world/
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aaronpk fyi this is a great site that will send a bunch of test webmentions https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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killerog thanks!
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michielbdejong.com edited /indieweb-messaging (-50) "/* Protocol Flow */ Combine 401 response with login screen" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118601543603/adding-h-entry-microformat-markup-to-this-blog linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started#Add_microformats_to_your_content (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118601543603/adding-h-entry-microformat-markup-to-this-blog linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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raucao could someone with working webmentions send me one to any of https://updates.kip.pe/ ?
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LukasRos aaronpk: Have you intentionally removed app.net support from IndieAuth?
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michielbdejong.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+249) "/* Option 1 */ Display p-recipient elements" (view diff)
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raucao much appreciated
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aaronpk LukasRos: yes, turns out i hadn't paid my app.net developer fee so they disabled the app!
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LukasRos Ah ok, just wondering because yesterday it was working but not today.
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aaronpk i can afford a few cents here and there for SMS auth for everyone, but $100/yr is a bit much ;)
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aaronpk was it actually working, or just showing up in the list?
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LukasRos Until yesterday, yes, all well.
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aaronpk weird!
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aaronpk they must have just disabled it today
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aaronpk it was returning an invalid_client error today
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@justb3a first try to publish to twitter via processwire #indiewebcamp #btconf #processwire (twitter.com/_/status/597387072400396288)
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aaronpk it worked :)
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LukasRos I feel I’ve done enough for my own site today. Anyone wants my help with theirs?
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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fkooman aaronpk, hmm it just adds 4 webmentions to my site...why would it want to block some of them? are you supposed to display the html from this page in-line?
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aaronpk which are you talking about?
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@justb3a just twitter posts which have the category `tweet` assigned #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/597388805751087104)
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@skddc Hacking at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/skddc/status/597388890631053312/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597388890631053312)
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fkooman checkmention, it works! :) https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/d080698b3e98cc0fb4f2b29718d90c65
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fkooman raucao, is it working for you as well?
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@skddc Turns out Known's Twitter integration is ace. Goodbye, Silo! #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/597389496615882752)
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michielbdejong.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+692) "/* Notes */ Add ideas about impact on micropub and feeds" (view diff)
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@danielpietzsch @adactio wrote up a short summary of Day 1 of the #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf. http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118605314113/adactio-journal-100-words-048#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/597390266262286336)
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Vendan so ideally, a microformats2 parser should work with any future microformat added to microformats2?
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@justb3a save returned twitter id to be able to link to the tweet #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/597390824159236096)
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aaronpk Vendan: the parsing happens outside of knowledge of the vocabulary
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aaronpk so something like <div class="h-foo"><span class="p-bar">baz</span></div> will parse just fine
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Vendan so, that's a yes? I shouldn't be doing any kind of a "h-card needs these elements" and such?
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Vendan k
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aaronpk are you writing a parser?
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aaronpk then yes
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Vendan yeap :)
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aaronpk in that case definitely read http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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aaronpk it has all the edge cases
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Vendan yeah, that's what I'm looking at
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@justb3a forgot to save the page after setting twitter post id #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/597391676601180160)
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aaronpk cool
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Vendan it's just slightly odd, cause golang stresses very hard type safety
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Vendan not that hard to do according to the docs, just odd
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@btconf RT @mxstbr: #ST4I and #IndieWebCamp lunch! @btconf https://twitter.com/mxstbr/status/597357707922907136/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597395550414176257)
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@zerstoerer oo, looks as though @bastianallgeier's kirby cms will have web mentions and comments via twitter? this BIG for me. http://bastianallgeier.com/notes/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/597395803804688384)
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@btconf RT @jkphl: #IndieWebCamp day 2 earlybirds starting early @sipgateDE +@bastianallgeier @glennjones #btconf https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597309192928636928/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597395956091494401)
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@btconf RT @johannesdachsel: Let's kick off day two! #IndieWebCamp #btconf https://twitter.com/johannesdachsel/status/597307174579281920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597395991780790272)
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@bastianallgeier @zerstoerer yep, I’m currently working on it: https://github.com/bastianallgeier/kirby-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/597396066078748672)
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@Renaade Finally have my page updated with Microformats 2. *yeah #IndieWebCamp (twitter.com/_/status/597396704044949504)
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aaronpk FIFTEEN MINUTES UNTIL DEMOS
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killerog runs away screaming
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GWG killerog: Replied to your github issue.
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Vendan another question, the parsed json result, is it supposed to be identical between all parsers? i.e. is that part of the spec, or just recommendations?
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killerog ah, thx. right back at ya GWG
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aaronpk omg it works
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GWG aaronpk: What does
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aaronpk fancy new quill
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adactio aaronpk: a parser should be able to find microformat root classes on the html element, right? e.g. <html class="h-feed">
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aaronpk i believe so. certainly on the body tag
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aaronpk php-mf2 has no trouble with <html class="h-entry">
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adactio aaronpk: it seems to be having an issue with <html class="h-feed">
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aaronpk the php one?
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aaronpk looks like it should work http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgist.githubusercontent.com%2Faaronpk%2F0ed7802b3d2495c31530%2Fraw%2F750d5bad85f50f508f7f03b9969b013a2888c4ec%2Fgistfile1.txt
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adactio aaronpk: here's the problematic page: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.danielpietzsch.com%2F
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adactio aaronpk: looks like it could be Tumblr's doing: it inserts script elements willy-nilly.
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fkooman raucao, curl -i -d 'source=https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/phubble/d7ac1cd0a6a159dcd25545ddff475f3e&target=https://updates.kip.pe/2015/ohai-from-known' https://updates.kip.pe/webmention/
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Vendan question, does it make sense for a single element to have multiple p-*,u-* and so on classes?
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Vendan and if so, how does it get added to the properties map, as each class individually?
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@killerog Posting to twitter: from my blog at #indiewebcamp http://killerog.com/2015/05/10/posting-to-twitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/597405169010094082)
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@Renaade That's interesting: IndieAuth + WordPress https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Plugins #IndieWebCamp (twitter.com/_/status/597405908294082560)
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aaronpk adactio: that's really odd
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aaronpk Vendan: yes, that's hinted at here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parse_an_element_for_class_microformats
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aaronpk adactio: if i take out the script tag at the top the parser has no problem
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aaronpk i'm not sure why that would be causing an issue for it though
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@bastianallgeier @fhemberger https://github.com/bastianallgeier/kirby-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/597406931666472960)
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adactio Here's my code for sending webmentions from my site (I'm using it for the /links section) https://gist.github.com/adactio/e9c3b157dcd865dec6ca
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aaronpk for anyone remote who wants to watch demos, we'll be at https://beta.talky.io/iwc in a few minutes!
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Vendan wooo
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Vendan there's people!
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rhiaro DEMO TIME
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aaronpk https://beta.talky.io/iwc
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@taxiphilosoph RT @Renaade: Finally have my page updated with Microformats 2. *yeah #IndieWebCamp (twitter.com/_/status/597408863298662400)
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Vendan I'm watching :)
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rhiaro aaronpk: You all saw Quill yesterday. What I did today was add a new posting interface for articles
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rhiaro ... started from scratch
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rhiaro ... somebody already did the hard work of making Medium style text editing
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rhiaro *aaronpk demos amazing looking UI*
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rhiaro ... even has a photo upload thing
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rhiaro ... with alignment etc
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rhiaro ... the crazy thing is it just puts the image data into the webpage
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@jkphl Demo time @indiewebcamp! #btconf https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597409405693472768/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597409405693472768)
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rhiaro ... Saves as you type, autosave to local storage
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rhiaro ... works offline
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rhiaro ... publishes to micropub, everything in html is sent
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Vendan any way we could see the actual demo...?
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rhiaro ... image data is embedded, didn't need to do a file upload
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rhiaro Vendan: any good?
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Vendan not horrible
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Vendan not great :)
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rhiaro sorry it's backlit
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rhiaro aaronpk: needs a way to edit post
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Vendan that's not really the issue
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rhiaro ... wanted to do a drop down with more information about publishing
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rhiaro ... and need to handle errors
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Vendan issue is screen has banding issues, cause of lcd and camera
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rhiaro Vendan: probably not much we can do about that
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rhiaro sorry :(
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Vendan nope
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rhiaro aaronpk: Also whilst learning about appcache yesterday, made Teacup into offline app
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rhiaro ... speeds it up a ton, but doesn't save the post
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rhiaro ... and added date and time for backdating food posts
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Vendan lol, for web stuff, demo from the computer that's running talky.io and share screen from there?
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rhiaro Vendan: we're all switching computers
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rhiaro using our own
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rhiaro aaronpk is using localforage
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@FlowFXx @bastianallgeier Very cool! I'm looking forward to the webmentions plugin. (twitter.com/_/status/597410470568468480)
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rhiaro adactio: Goal was to send webmentions (already accept them)
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rhiaro ... most important for bookmarks
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rhiaro ... it worked :)
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rhiaro ... code is on github
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rhiaro ... actual webmention part was straightfoward. Dealing with html and urls that was complicated
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rhiaro ... was using regular expressions, more problems, then realised it was madness, used DOM instead
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rhiaro ... most of the code dealing with possible non-absolute urls for wm endpoints
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rhiaro ... Next steps, every time I publish something on blog to loop through any links and do the same thing
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rhiaro ... Should go into queue, often have a lot of links
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aaronpk http://stefan-auditor.de/
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rhiaro Stefan: setup Drupal, stefan-auditor.de
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@danielpietzsch 130/365: Demo time at #IndieWebCamp. @aaronpk goes first. http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118610275298/130-365-demo-time-at-indiewebcamp-aaron-parecki#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/597411500492488704)
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rhiaro ... set up indieauth, log in with quill
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rhiaro ... created micropub endpoint for drupal
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rhiaro *demos posting with quill including reply and location*
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rhiaro ... it worked :)
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rhiaro (also renders map, nice)
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rhiaro ... is a drupal module, not published on drupal.org yet still some issues
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rhiaro ... drupal is a multiuser system, don't know which user authenticated
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rhiaro ... need some settings for primary user, or need to use userid to authenticate
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rhiaro ... everything else was straightfoward, copied from adactio's gist
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rhiaro ... Other thing I wanted to was add microformats, no solution in drupal other than editing template
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rhiaro ... So wrote a module for that too
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rhiaro ... Defines a mapping. Add fields to all content via the backend, so it's not easy to hardcode semantics
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rhiaro ... Didn't want to depend on theme for microformats
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rhiaro ... Module defines mapping field name => mf property
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rhiaro ... Can now set variable in drupal with mapping
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rhiaro ... On post page, javascript also parses and displays microformats
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rhiaro ... including h-card for user
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rhiaro ... So totally independant from theme, and avoids themers stripping out markup
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rhiaro ... It was simpler to add micropub endpoint than classes...
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rhiaro ... This is a longstanding drupal issue
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rhiaro ... going to add backend to add the mapping
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rhiaro ... Third thing was finish webmention support, already started on that a few weeks ago
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rhiaro ... Submodule for an existing pingback/trackback module
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rhiaro ... Already published on drupal.org as dev release
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rhiaro ... *demos*
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rhiaro ... receiving and sending
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ben_thatmustbeme oh cool, drupal plug-in
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rhiaro Johann: wanted to hijack instagram interface to upload, use ownyourgram, then delete
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rhiaro ... but instagram API won't let you delete your images!
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rhiaro ... you can delete likes, comments
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rhiaro ... Tried to delete via web interface, but couldn't find that either, had to do it through app
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rhiaro ... (but does have posting via ownyourgram)
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rhiaro ... then, integrating twitter to processwire
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rhiaro ... post from quill to my site, creates new post and publishes it for me
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rhiaro ... same to instagram
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rhiaro ... tweet from my site, just need to create a new note and select category 'tweet'
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rhiaro ... *demos*
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@johannesdachsel Nice tweet from #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/597414576381132800)
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rhiaro ^^^^
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rhiaro ... Next steps, implement webmentions
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rhiaro ... if anyone uses processwire, module is on github
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Loqi [mention] http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118610275298/130-365-demo-time-at-indiewebcamp-aaron-parecki posted '130/365: Demo time at IndieWebCamp. Aaron Parecki went first. ' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany
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rhiaro Bastian: webmentions plugin for kirby
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aaronpk http://bastianallgeier.com
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rhiaro ... all file based. Hidden folder for webmentions with json files
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rhiaro ... also pings json that caches endpoints you have pinged
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rhiaro ... also stores images in location you choose, including user images so you don't run into mixed content problems
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rhiaro ... spent time making templates nice
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rhiaro ... *shows really pretty UI*
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@aaronpk IndieWebCamp Germany demos are starting! Watch live at https://beta.talky.io/iwc (twitter.com/_/status/597415401161527297)
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rhiaro ... separates likes, mentions, replies
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rhiaro ... very customiseable in template
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rhiaro ... also connected to bridgy, works nicely
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rhiaro ... Kirby has markdown extension
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rhiaro ... added so you can write "like: url" and it creates link with like-of attribute
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rhiaro ... Also started to build something I will convert to micropub endpoint
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rhiaro ... integrates with zapier(?) to store tweets
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rhiaro ... Plugin on github
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rhiaro ... Started docs
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aaronpk https://github.com/bastianallgeier/kirby-webmentions
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rhiaro Steffen: Also Kirby
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rhiaro ... Added microformats
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rhiaro ... Added micropub endpoint to post with Quill
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rhiaro ... *signs into quill*
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rhiaro ... *posts*
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rhiaro ... Post structure is custom, so made a script to parse content from quill
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rhiaro does this too.. ^^
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rhiaro ... posts markdown
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rhiaro yay I'm not the only one :D ^^
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Loqi yay!
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rhiaro ... In the background, creates a new folder in Kirby and inside creates article file, contains markdown and metadata
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rhiaro Frederic: Changed from static site to Kirby
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aaronpk http://fmarx.com/
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rhiaro ... microformats, SMS for indieauth with mobile
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rhiaro ... Also collected ideas for how an indieweb medium could look like
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rhiaro ... Reasons to use medium: easy and delightful, low threshold, comments and interactions
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rhiaro ... Could do 1) with tooltip wysiwyg, beautiful typography, auto-embed linked media
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rhiaro ... Low threshold: needs script, easy to deploy, multiple format options, shouldn't have to set up whole blog
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ben_thatmustbeme lots of Kirby at this IWC
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rhiaro ... Comments and interactions: likes and replies with webmentions. Reader is also publishing app. Fragments
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rhiaro ... made a mockup
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rhiaro ... Important that if you see an article like that you can reply, then choose to publish/download/share/etc
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rhiaro Rogier: Site yesterday was one page with links
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aaronpk Rogier - http://killerog.com/
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rhiaro ... Today, installed Wordpress, has lots of plugins
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@bastianallgeier So many cool demos at the #indiewebcamp. What a great weekend! (twitter.com/_/status/597418592217497600)
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rhiaro ... First hacked microformats into default 2015 template
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rhiaro GWG: ^^
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rhiaro ... then read about WP on indiewebcamp wiki
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@justb3a post to twitter and my own website using Quill #indiewebcamp #quill (twitter.com/_/status/597418714099777536)
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rhiaro ... indieauth also has a plugin
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rhiaro ... then webmentions
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Plugins (+110) "/* Publishing to Your Site */" (view diff)
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rhiaro ... sending and receiving
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rhiaro ... Then Teacup
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rhiaro ... And posts to twitter
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rhiaro ... also via plugin
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@killerog to twitter: posting for #indiewebcamp http://killerog.com/2015/05/10/to-twitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/597419410182184961)
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rhiaro Daniel: Added microformats
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aaronpk http://www.danielpietzsch.com/
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rhiaro ... Started with webmentions, can accept
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rhiaro ... using webmention.io
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rhiaro ... and sending
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Vendan woot, microformat parser can parse https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/master/tests/test-suite/test-suite-data/h-card/hcard/input.html now!
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killerog The wordpress page is here btw, for those interested: http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress
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rhiaro ... Sent PR to aaron for Monocle to fix css for images
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GWG killerog: I'm very interested.
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rhiaro (that was tumblr)
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rhiaro LukasRos: implemented webmentions, particularly receiving
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aaronpk http://lukasrosenstock.net/
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rhiaro ... Uses app.net as backend
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rhiaro ... show on Treeview which is app.net client. Posts from webmentions are created on app.net from own account
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rhiaro ... made webmention parser building on phpmf2 library
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rhiaro ... parses page to see what kind of reply it is
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killerog GWG: It mostly came down to install sempress theme first, and then thte indieweb plugin and related plugins that are already mentioned in the description of that plugin. And Social for posting to twitter/facebook https://wordpress.org/plugins/social/
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rhiaro ... next is to implement sending
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killerog Indieweb is here btw: https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ and sempress: http://notizblog.org/projects/sempress/
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LukasRos My webmention implementation is also already committed to the GitHub repository: https://github.com/LukasRos/phpADNSite
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tantek wakes up and joins talky.
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GWG killerog: I'm familiar with them.
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rhiaro Glenn: Ripped out notes editor from site so other people can use it
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rhiaro ... not quite done
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rhiaro ... As I type into editor, you see updates to text, html, json version with microformats
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tantek noticed sound just dropped, reloading.
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rhiaro ... adds links as you type
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rhiaro ... dynamically monitors typing and updates everything
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rhiaro ... other box is for tags. You type #tags in editor and it creates comma separated list
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rhiaro ... And it has a counter
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rhiaro ... when it hits 140 it goes red, but you can keep going
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GWG I think I will take a break from rewriting Post Kinds in an object oriented manner to avoid global scoped functions and go eat something.
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rhiaro ... When it's done it'll be javascript, css and icons file
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rhiaro ... CSS needs to be wrapped
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rhiaro ... In the future, webcomponant
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rhiaro ... Bug with selection of ranges
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rhiaro ... *blames browsers*
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rhiaro ... on github
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aaronpk https://github.com/glennjones/note-editor
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rhiaro ... go watch it, you'll get updates when it's ready to use
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bret rhiaro++
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tantek slept laptop / rewoke, and talky works again now. weird network issue (local).
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Loqi rhiaro has 88 karma
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bret ty for the notes
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rhiaro ... will hijack a textarea
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 89 karma
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tantek rhiaro++ for minuting the demos!
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Loqi dude
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tantek aw Loqi
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Loqi grins profusely
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rhiaro Jan: Goal was to work with indiecert
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rhiaro ... already had indieauth with github and twitter
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rhiaro ... Renewed SSL cert
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aaronpk https://jansauer.de/
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rhiaro ... and improved SSL report and added certificate pinning (more secure)
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rhiaro ... now using StartSSL
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rhiaro ... With indiecert, use html keygen to generate certificate
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rhiaro ... Wanted to see if it'll work generating cert myself, used OpenSSL
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rhiaro ... Can use own organisation name, easier to organise
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rhiaro ... imported into browser
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KevinMarks_ adactio: is this what you were expecting? http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.danielpietzsch.com&pretty=on
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rhiaro ... add fingerprint into html. First copied from indiecert, but also checked it's really my fingerprint, so used OpenSSL to generate fingerprint myself, to verify code on indiecert works
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Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 45 minutes ago: just pinged aaronpk about home page update to IWC Germany - if it's something obvious to you like that, feel free to fix it! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10/line/1431243975106
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rhiaro ... So far it works
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aaronpk (KevinMarks_ I fixed it btw)
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rhiaro Joschi: First thing, add more auth providers to website
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rhiaro ... PGP key (fiddly to find out how to sign that), email, google authenticator
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adactio KevinMarks: yes, that looks right.
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rhiaro ... Started on micropub endpoint
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tantek (this is all amazing! read the logs and caught up. so much implementation!)
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rhiaro ... Spent most of the day updating tool to parse microformats and schema.org
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rhiaro ... built on phpmf2 library
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rhiaro aaronpk can you post link? I can't see it..
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aaronpk http://micrometa.jkphl.is/
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rhiaro ... had to update lots to parse nested schema.org
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aaronpk and http://jkphl.is/
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adactio tantek: I am absolutely blown away by how much people got done today. Amazing!
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aaronpk rhiaro: http://rhiaro.co.uk
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aaronpk now sending webmentions automatically
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aaronpk ... sending a "like" with quill
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tantek rhiaro++ for minuting the demos, and getting automatic webmentions working!
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Loqi rhiaro has 90 karma
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aaronpk ... aww it didn't work! (I swear it worked)
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aaronpk (showing one from earlier)
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aaronpk http://rhiaro.co.uk/likes
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aaronpk .. when I post likes, replies, bookmarks, etc, it now sends webmentions automatically
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aaronpk ... and the like shows up on aaron's site
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Vendan ugh, got really echoy
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aaronpk ... also discovered loads of bugs in my "everything" and spent some time fixing htem
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aaronpk ... I didn't want to post straight to twitter automatically, so I made a twitter intent button
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aaronpk ... made it a retweet intent so others can use it, I delete the RT before posting
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aaronpk Auli https://kirilind.me/ up next, demoing http://labs.ouishare.net
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aaronpk rhiaro can you take over again you're better ;)
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rhiaro aaronpk: sure ;P
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rhiaro Auli: webmentions for Jekyll
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rhiaro ... uses JekMention
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rhiaro (^^ ?)
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aaronpk was testing with https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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rhiaro oh
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tantek hey I see adactio.com on the screen
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tantek who is demoing now?
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tantek ???: shows Qualys SSL Labs F rating
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tantek worse than just http, claiming https when it's not
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rhiaro ??: Improved HTTPS, managed to bring it up to a B. It's Plesk
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tantek … fixed a bunch, now gets a B
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aaronpk https://ami.responsivedesign.is/ is the site being demo'd
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rhiaro ... need to improve
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aaronpk from https://twitter.com/justinavery
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rhiaro wishes everyone would wear their namebadge :p
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tantek What is Plesk?
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aaronpk http://surfthedream.com.au/
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Plesk" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Plesk&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-10%2Fline%2F1431272709227
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rhiaro ... Then added microformats
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rhiaro ... And wrote a blog post about this
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aaronpk amazing blog post on this! http://surfthedream.com.au/writing/enabling-https-ssl-on-your-site/
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tantek blogging++
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Loqi blogging has 1 karma
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killerog only 1?
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KevinMarks glennjones: I made a tweet preview in noterlive.com - you can pinch that
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rhiaro Sebastian : Don't want to post to twitter first, half worked, half didn't.
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aaronpk https://sebastian.kip.pe/
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rhiaro ... Known
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rhiaro ... Errors with checkins POSSEing to foursquare
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@t #IndieWebCamp Germany demos are live on https://beta.takly.io/iwc and are amazing! #webmention #micropub #microformats2 (ttk.me t4b51) (twitter.com/_/status/597427903970684928)
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rhiaro ... RSVPing to events (this representation of my person is RSVPing) but theme doesn't display it
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aaronpk ... sent an RSVP to one of aaron's posts http://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/05/09/1/indiewebcamp https://updates.kip.pe/2015/untitled
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rhiaro ... Then had to write a privacy policy because you can't set up a foursquare application without that
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rhiaro ... Then Bridgy
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rhiaro ... Don't get any webmentions back
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rhiaro ... Seems to be a Known bug
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Vendan woot, http://vendaria.net/ is now running the initial build of my software now !
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rhiaro ... Pictures working nicely
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rhiaro ... Whole picture also gets posted to twitter natively
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rhiaro ... Wrote a post about twitter integration being great, then twitter integration stopped working
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rhiaro ... And changed site to be https
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rhiaro ... That might have caused a problem
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rhiaro ... Outgoing everything is fine, incoming not everything works
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rhiaro ... Happy I can post to my site instead of twitter
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@jkphl Fixed some long-term bugs of http://micrometa.jkphl.is today, now properly parsing nested http://schema.org #IndieWebCamp #microformats2 (twitter.com/_/status/597429094016491520)
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rhiaro Nick: New website for sockethub that breaks up all posts into markdown, and static site generator to create html
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aaronpk https://silverbucket.net/
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rhiaro ... Before it was one big html file, was getting a pita to update
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rhiaro ... Added microformats markup to templates
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rhiaro ... Worked on accepting webmentions and storing them in remotestorage
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rhiaro ... Not quite done
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rhiaro ... Using webmention.io for now
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rhiaro ... but not doing anything with them yet, want to make a script that whenever I rebuild site it fetches webmentions
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rhiaro ... Still not sure what to do about sending webmentions
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rhiaro ... Currently no state
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rhiaro ... Don't want to send them every time I rerun build script
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rhiaro ... Gotta figure out something graceful for that
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aaronpk Michiel
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aaronpk http://michielbdejong.com
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rhiaro Michiel: Started building something to post to a limited audience
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bret 6
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rhiaro ... Edited indiewebcamp wiki based on what I've been doing
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rhiaro ... Idea is you have to sign in with indieauth to see a post
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aaronpk here are a bunch of his edits http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=indieweb-messaging&curid=877&diff=19160&oldid=19100
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rhiaro ... Problem with webmention not being able to auth to verify
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rhiaro ... Initially gets 401 saying they have to login
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rhiaro ... Done in such a way that a machine can use a indieauth token as a bearer token
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rhiaro ... And then done in the same way as feeds
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rhiaro s/as/for
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: ... And then done in the same way for feeds
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rhiaro ... Would be nice to also support putting the token in the url query string, so you could bookmark the feed with the query and any feed reader can retreive it
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rhiaro ... And for micropub you post with 'recipients'
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rhiaro ... Need to check a site supports recipients
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rhiaro ... Display recipients so person reading knows who it went to and won't share
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rhiaro ... And trying to make cozycloud, owncloud and known interoperable
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rhiaro ... Will work on this at OuiShare next week
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rhiaro Aaaaany more demos?
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rhiaro Guess not
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rhiaro Success.
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tantek did adactio just make a joke about CMSs?
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killerog CMS FTW
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rhiaro TO BBQ
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killerog indiewebcamp++
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Loqi indiewebcamp has 5 karma
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tantek congrats everyone at IndieWebCamp Germany!
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adactio OMGWTFBBQ!
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tantek thanks organizers aaronpk adactio
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rhiaro tantek: "I guess that's why you use CMSes, to get done in one day what it's taken me a couple of years"
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tantek adactio++
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killerog don't forget rhiaro++
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Loqi adactio has 15 karma
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tantek aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 799 karma
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KevinMarks is aaronpk's new quill up online?
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tantek KevinMarks: the aaronpk develops, it's likely already live
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aaronpk KevinMarks: not yet unfortunately
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tantek lol oops ;)
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aaronpk i am not comfortable publishing it until it handles errors a little better
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sanduhrs Three more building blocks for a Drupal based IndieWeb:
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sanduhrs Vinculum https://github.com/sanduhrs/vinculum
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sanduhrs Microformats2 https://github.com/sanduhrs/microformats2
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sanduhrs Micropub https://github.com/sanduhrs/micropub
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@One2Ad_com RT @t: #IndieWebCamp Germany demos are live on https://beta.takly.io/iwc and are amazing! #webmention #micropub #microformats2 (ttk.me t4b51) (twitter.com/_/status/597432034915721216)
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tantek hey Vendan - saw you were asking about microformats2 parsing earlier - I'm happy to help answer any questions!
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Vendan No real questions right now
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Vendan taking a little time to build a parser in golang while I'm working on my site software
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KevinMarks vendan - if you want another reference, see unmung,com that hosts the mf2py parser
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tantek nice Vendan!
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Vendan it's already able to parse some simple microformats stuff
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Vendan still gotta implement the value-class-pattern, but once I have that, p-* and u-* will be parsing correctly
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Vendan on top of the h-* stuff
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@t #IndieWebCamp Germany demos all done. They’re off to BBQ but see extensive notes by @rhiaro: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (ttk.me t4b52) (twitter.com/_/status/597433477303115777)
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Vendan need to make 5 more repos on github just to push all the code I'm writing :)
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tantek KevinMarks: could you add that to http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Python
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tantek Vendan - lots more references (to see what other parser do) here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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tantek s/parser do/parsers do
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Vendan - lots more references (to see what other parsers do) here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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Vendan I found https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/tree/master/tests/test-suite/test-suite-data
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Vendan going through that, trying to get at least a general matchup
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tantek needs to incorporate resolved issues from microformats2-parsing-issues and accepted brainstorming from microformats2-parsing-brainstorming into microformats2-parsing
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Jeena thank Ryan Barrett and Kyle Mahan for bridgy, I don't think I would have the nerve to reimplement the whole Facebook POSSE with another shitty and non backwards compatible Facebook API
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tantek Vendan, that's a great test suite
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Vendan my json is in a different order in some cases, but that's not really relevant
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tantek Vendan the order of keys/fields does not matter, but array ordering does (since it reflects document order)
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Vendan part of that is golang randomizes map iteration :D
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tantek sounds useful for debugging :)
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Vendan yeah, array ordering is fine
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Vendan that's one of the reasons they do it, so you don't get caught out by a map always being in a certain order
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Vendan cause a map doesn't have a defined order
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snarfed Jeena: you're welcome! hope it's working ok
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Jeena the first notes test worked gloriously! Now I'm adding it to the photos code too
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ben_thatmustbeme Yeah, without bridgy a lot of us would not be syndicating to FB & twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 102 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 165 karma
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Jeena snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 103 karma
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Jeena kylewm++
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snarfed thanks guys!
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Loqi slow down!
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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Jeena :D
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Loqi hahahaha
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ben_thatmustbeme oh Loqi, you are so silly
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Loqi yeah!
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GWG We shouldn't forget kylewm. He is a large contributor to Bridgy
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Loqi +1
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GWG Oh, good, we didn't
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm. rel="p-recipient h-card" really make sense https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=19159&oldid=19158&rcid=19163
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ben_thatmustbeme in a rel?
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ttepasse Speaking of, what abou Loqi++?
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snarfed speaking of which, kylewm made #bridgy recently, feel free to ask q's in there if we're there too and you don't want to spam this channel
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ben_thatmustbeme that was supposed to say 'does rel="p-recipient h-card" really make sense?'
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Jeena Neat, so I was able to fix FB Posse just two days before my South Korea journey where I guess I will post many photos and notes
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@rhiaro RT @t: #IndieWebCamp Germany demos all done. They’re off to BBQ but see extensive notes by @rhiaro: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (ttk.me t4b52) (twitter.com/_/status/597439405180203008)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: it does not. rel is only for page-scoped stuff. not microformats2 properties or root objects.
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Loqi [bridgy] Amy Guy retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/597439405180203008)
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GWG Jeena: I have a month till my vacation. Better work on that.
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Jeena hehe yeah!
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tantek now was that an indie repost or just a twitter retweet rhiaro ? ;)
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rhiaro It was a twitter retweet, I honestly tried to repost it myself but twitter wouldn't let me copy your url easily and I had my hands full :p
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rhiaro and in related news, I think my micropub endpoint is mysteriously broken again
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rhiaro So I've abandoned all food to investigate
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rhiaro -> investigating
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rhiaro howver, if I had, it *should* have sent you a webmention :p I'll try again shortly..
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tantek rhiaro: I do have webactions setup on my permalinks - perhaps we can get that working to send an indieaction to your UI
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tantek so that from the note on my site, you can click the "Repost" button/link, and have it pop open your posting UI
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rhiaro back in 45 minutes
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snarfed rhiaro: also feel free to check out https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses as a way to own your RTs of other people
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rhiaro snarfed: I can already repost, just not right now..
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Loqi [bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (https://twitter.com/t/status/597433477303115777)
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@webgefrickel RT @mxstbr: #ST4I and #IndieWebCamp lunch! @btconf https://twitter.com/mxstbr/status/597357707922907136/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597444915447083009)
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tantek.com created /2015/Germany/ (+26) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+307) "add link to IRC notes to start this off" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+1) "=" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+343) "start day demos and hack day demos" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Ben Michel favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10#t1431268323324 (https://twitter.com/t/status/597433477303115777)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+851) "add adactio start day demo, start on aaronpk" (view diff)
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tantek well that's a start at least - hopefully other folks can jump in and help out!
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Vendan microformats parser in golang that I'm working on: https://github.com/andyleap/microformats
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rhiaro Yay, thanks for adding stuff to the wiki tantek!
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rhiaro tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 189 karma
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tantek rhiaro: np - it's just a start - so much to capture! but I left links in place for others to help expand :)
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tantek I'm also afraid I may get details wrong - since I'm interpreting logs/minutes
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tantek whereas people who actually saw the demos may be able to add more detailed information
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rhiaro I think I need to figure out what's up with my micropub endpoint then crash for a bit
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GWG I'm trying to redesign my display code for various kinds of posts. I fear I'm ending up down a rabbit hole again
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Vendan tantek, question for you, e-* properties get 2 values rather then the single value the others get. When a p-* is also a h-*, that property is nested with the p-* value in the nested microformat
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Vendan is the e-* html stuff put in beside the value: in the nested microformat?
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Vendan +
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Vendan oops
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tantek Vendan - could you provide a brief markup example of what you mean?
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Vendan not sure if it's valid, but something like <div class="h-entry"><div class="h-card e-content"></div></div>
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Vendan I'm guessing the content property for the h-entry should be a microformat entry with a value: {value: "", html: ""}
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tantek hmm - may help to add some content/markup to that in the middle
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tantek e.g. <div class="h-entry"><div class="h-card e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div>
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tantek let's try one of the existing parsers and see if it does something expected
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tantek hmm - looks like an untested edge case
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tantek both phpmf2 and mf2py fail to produce the html in the parsed output!
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Vendan lol
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tantek this works in both: <div class="h-entry"><div class="e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div>
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ttepasse The MF2-Algorithm doesn't use or care for the HTML lang attribute, do I see that correct?
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tantek ttepasse: with the exception of the extra bit of rel parsing at the end which just collects the lang attribute, yes
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tantek goes to file a couple of issues
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Vendan so, what is the expected result?
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ttepasse Hm. Even DOM doesn't seem to have a method for querying Nodes oder Elements for the inherited language. Strange.
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ttepasse Ah. HTML has HTMLElement::lang, but crippled.
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tantek Vendan: did you see how they parse <div class="h-entry"><div class="e-content"><p>Hello</p></div></div> ? more like that
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tantek e.g. right next to the "value": "Hello", you should see "html": "<p>Hello<\/p>",
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Vendan ok, not nested in a dictionary under the value:
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Vendan that makes it easier for me :)
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tantek filing github issues on them now
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tantek issues filed: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/64 https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/35
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tantek good job Vendan, already finding bugs in existing parsers :P
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tantek ;)
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Vendan lol, just mentally brute-forcing all the code paths in my parser :D
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tantek good to have you here Vendan :D
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tantek got an email from Google about "Important notice for Master/Slave Datastore app owners on Google App Engine" that I really don't understand.
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tantek anyone else get that email? snarfed? KevinMarks? kylewm?
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kylewm weird, no
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tantek it was sent 2015-04-20 - just found it
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tantek I don't think I have any App Engine apps, and it was far too long to bother trying to understand, so I tl;dr'd it.
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tantek the kind of email that should have been a blog post
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snarfed tantek: agreed, if you don't run anything on app engine, you can ignore it
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snarfed (there have been a number of blog posts too :P)
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tantek email should have been brief and linked to the blog post for details / follow-up :P
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kirilind.me edited /Jekmentions (+99) "add implementation example" (view diff)
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Vendan there, my library handles e-* on h-*
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tantek Vendan - do you have a simple textarea based web UI for folks to try your library?
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tantek e.g. like that for phpmf2: https://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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Vendan not yet
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Vendan just started work on it this morning :P
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Vendan I'll see about throwing something together this afternoon
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tantek lol
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Vendan be back in a little
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tantek me too
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kylewm it'd be interesting to benchmark the performance of the mf2 parsers
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kylewm i mean, i'm sure the mf2 bits are dominated by parsing html bits
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KevinMarks__ The difference between using html5lib and not?
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KevinMarks__ Tantek, should I add a textarea to unmung.com too
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tantek helps with testing snippets of markup
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tantek bboab
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GWG !tell acegiak Insert request for brain picking here.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm KevinMarks__: ya exactly, i'm curious how mf2py+lxml compares to mf2py+html5lib, php-mf2, node-mf2, golang
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LukasRos I might do a bit of transfering IRC demo notes to the wiki.
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@jkphl What a nice #btconf kick-off — the best so far. @indiewebcamp was a blast! We miss you, @webrocker — good luck! :) https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597485145025839106/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597485145025839106)
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@killerog Thoughts on the IndieWeb: So, I guess this #indiewebcamp was quite a success for me as I have a site now... http://killerog.com/2015/05/10/thoughts-on-the-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/597487221910810624)
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LukasRos Loqi: can you hear me?
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LukasRos I’m on a moving train.
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kylewm loud and clear, LukasRos
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+2098) "/* Hack Day Demos */" (view diff)
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+1943) "/* Hack Day Demos */" (view diff)
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LukasRos I made a summary of rhiaros notes for all hack day demos on the wiki. I hope nothing got ”žlost in translation“ over those two hops.
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LukasRos If any of you feels themselves misrepresented feel free to edit, it’s a wiki after all.
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lukasrosenstock.net edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+1) (view diff)
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rhiaro nice, thanks LukasRos
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LukasRos No problem :) Nothing else to do on this train anyway.
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Vendan heh, my microformats library just extracted http://pastebin.com/cjK39tgB from http://aaronparecki.com/
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Vendan still needs work, but neat :D
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kylewm Vendan: looking really good!
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kylewm Vendan++
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Loqi Vendan has 2 karma
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tantek Vendan++ impressive progress!
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Loqi Vendan has 3 karma
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indieweb-messaging (+2) "/* Option 1 */ use class not rel for mf2 properties" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indieweb-messaging (+2) "/* Option 1 */ use class not rel for mf2 properties" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: where did that rel misconception come from?!?
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indieweb-messaging (+4) "/* Threaded Conversations */ again use class not rel for mf2 properties" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, i saw this edit earlier https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=19159&oldid=19158&rcid=19163
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: where do I find this new article posting UI on Quill?
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tantek ah, from michiel - ok will have to ping him next time he comes back here to ask if / why he deliberately chose 'rel' and if so from what
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ben_thatmustbeme just leave a message with loqi i guess
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tantek I don't remember which alias
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: it's not up yet
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: ah ok
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KevinMarks added a textarea to unmung now: http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-card+e-content%22%3E%3Cp%3EHello%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
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@jansauer RT @skddc: Hacking at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/skddc/status/597388890631053312/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/597536015520235520)
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tantek KevinMarks, nice! somehow you have a different deployment of mf2py than KartikPrabhu
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tantek the value: { value: } looks kinda dumb too - glad we're fixing that
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KartikPrabhu tantek: KevinMarks made some new contribution to mf2py that mine is lagging behind
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tantek but that was rel related
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KartikPrabhu oh there are other diffs?
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tantek not sure how his has the e-* h-* parsing and yours does not
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tantek yeah
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tantek I filed a bug
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KartikPrabhu interesting
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tantek https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/35
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KartikPrabhu tantek: my mf2py might also be behind tommorris' repo :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yours was the only live textarea I could use - so deployed implementation > github trunk :P
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KevinMarks well, you can try mine now
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KevinMarks we should add a test for that though
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Loqi agreed.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: so KevinMarks version is doing the right thing?
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KevinMarks or is the value:value: stuff wrong?
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Vendan lol, thanks guys
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Vendan and that's only 3~4 hours of coding :D
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Vendan also, my opinion, it needs to get standardized somehow. A strict reading of the spec suggests that value:value: is correct
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Vendan but it doesn't look good, imo
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Vendan also, my opinion, it needs to get standardized somehow. A strict reading of the spec suggests that value:value: is correct
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Vendan argh, freaking wifi
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, would this be a discussion for #microformats?
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Vendan maybe change it so its value:{text: html:} ?
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Vendan that's a breaking change though
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Vendan probably
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ben_thatmustbeme not trying to stop you talking
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ben_thatmustbeme might get some more opinions there too
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KartikPrabhu aaaa this git thing is so confusing
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Vendan lol, yeah, I understand
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tantek Vendan: I agree that value:value does not look good - and that was unintended, so I fixed the spec accordingly
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Vendan cool, that makes my parser compliant with that
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=64955&oldid=64926
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tantek the intent of "value:" was that it was always a string - no more dereferencing needed
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tantek hence "value", literally
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Vendan I do prefer it that way
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tantek thanks for that find
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Vendan also, there's now at least a cli tool for testing my library, need to add some flags for specifying source, right now it's just taking 1 argument that's a url
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Vendan going to see about grabbing that test suite and integrating it into testing for my lib, then get it on travis or something for continuous testing
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: what's going on?