#indiewebcamp 2015-05-16

2015-05-16 UTC
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tantek
hmm just noticed that indiewebcamp.com pages have <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" /> in the head, but if you actually try to load /favicon.ico you get a mediawiki no page here page. cc: aaronpk
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Vendan
woo, wercker is still working for my mf2 parser builds!
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tantek.com
edited /webactions (+1700) "/* silo button variance */ new section: silo button examples with FB, G+, Pinterest, Reddit, Tumblr"
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tantek.com
edited /webactions (+9) "/* silo button examples */ /nowiki"
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Vendan
woot, WebMention is at least starting to work
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Loqi
yay!
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Vendan
huh, wierd, does https://quill.p3k.io/editor send a h=entry as well as the name and content?
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@kevinmarks
@SwiftOnSecurity federation is hard, let's go shopping. Or writing actually interoperable protocols #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/599421637985837056)
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Vendan
nvm, it was my fault
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@benwerd
Endless discussions (rather than creating products) are killing open tech. I still believe in #indieweb because of its bias towards action.
(twitter.com/_/status/599423312482013184)
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Vendan
It's practically almost usable!
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benwerd
Congrats!
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benwerd
A thought: I'm beginning to think the Indieweb community needs a blog / journal. The wiki is good, but a kind of human-friendly changelog for the current state of play would be really good.
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benwerd
I say this because I've not been paying as much attention over the last couple of weeks, out of necessity, and there have been a lot of new implementations and client apps.
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benwerd
I only realized aaronpk's new Quill interface happened because kevinmarks alerted me.
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benwerd
It'd also help show momentum in the group.
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Vendan
be neat to have it be done by syndicating posts from authors
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Vendan
i.e. it could have syndicated https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/05/11/1/ to talk about the quill editor
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benwerd
On-topic posts, for sure
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Vendan
yeah, curated syndication
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Vendan
not just merging all the posts of the authors
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benwerd
Curation is good
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benwerd
Hmmhmm
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kylewm
benwerd: are you thinking it would be sort of written/maintained by 1-2 people on a regular basis? (as opposed to like indienews)
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Vendan
heh, he quit
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kylewm
well I like the idea of a prose "this week in indieweb", actually sort of been thinking the same thing for a while
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Vendan
that'd be a little different, but still a good idea
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kylewm
oh is that different?
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Vendan
I was just thinking a "retweet" kind of thing
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kylewm
has anyone read that IndieWeb: Die Daten Sind Wir article? I've only seen that one same picture of the cover over and over :p
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@textformer
@aaronpk I will give a copy next month at IndieWebCampGermany, ok? (cc @pfefferle)
(twitter.com/_/status/585331228074729472)
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kylewm
Vendan: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/ sort of fills that role. it's a little bit tricky to post to now
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Vendan
did not know about that
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kylewm
sort of fills that role ==> could fill that role if more people posted to it
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Vendan
bleh, indieauth.com :P
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kylewm
do you know Ruby?
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kylewm
darn, me neither
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Vendan
php, python, go, assembly, c#, AS3, but no ruby
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willnorris.com
edited /image_proxy (-61) "my proxy is no longer limited to just images on my site"
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elf-pavlik
!tell fkooman reading SAML makes me think of you :D http://www.gluu.org/gluu-server/overview/
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@diplix
@pkrautz ix schreib später noch dazu, aber FB instant articles sind natürlich einwandfreies POSSE im indieweb-sinn: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/599479978078687232)
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elf-pavlik
hi benwerd
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elf-pavlik
what is subdomain?
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Loqi
A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain
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elf-pavlik
benward, you use path alternative in withknown ?
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benwerd
* benwerd (sorry benward, again ;) - and yes, we do, for self-hosted users in particular
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benwerd
we've found that most self-hosters don't have enough control to establish username subdomains
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benwerd
it's too much of a technical challenge
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elf-pavlik
could you possibly add it to that wiki page?
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elf-pavlik
benwerd++
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Loqi
benwerd has 75 karma
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elf-pavlik
i will also add adv of bit easier way to have HTTPS working when using paths
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werd.io
edited /subdomain (+288) "/* Path alternative */"
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werd.io
edited /subdomain (+0) "/* Indieweb Path Examples */"
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werd.io
edited /web_hosting (+239) "/* Shared Hosting */"
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benwerd
Added a few points. Closing down for the night but I have some thoughts on things to add tomorrow, now that you mention it. :)
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elf-pavlik
thanks benwerd and good night!
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Loqi
see you in the morning!
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Loqi
[bridgy] Peter Krautzberger replied '@diplix hui. Der Vergleich scheint mir etwa gewagt. Post everywhere that's an iPhone? Print ist dann auch posse? ;-)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/pkrautz/status/599495128944869376)
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Loqi
[bridgy] felix schwenzel replied '@pkrautz syndikation ist ja nix neues. gang und gäbe bei US-zeitungen. ob ”žreally simple“, zu fb oder in den print ist dann ja sekundär.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/diplix/status/599501702702755840)
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp!
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@timmmmyboy
@benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicable models.
(twitter.com/_/status/599529401026551808)
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@kylewmahan
@timmmmyboy That isn’t completely fair. #indieweb model is more “be your own first user” … or “why would anyone… https://kylewm.com/2015/05/that-isn-t-completely-fair-indieweb-model-is-more
(twitter.com/_/status/599583014947958786)
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Loqi
[mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/ten-years posted 'It’s been 10 years since rudigermeyer.com first went online. I thought it might be interesting to trace the trajectory of that decade from a...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
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@kylewmahan
@benwerd I really liked your idea to have a blog/journal summarizing what’s new in indieweb. Good use for a multi-user Known site?
(twitter.com/_/status/599584600109633536)
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Vendan_
kylewm, it would be interesting to have it be a shared site that a few people have access to, and have them use micropub to syndicate to it
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@CoderDojoVA
RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl…
(twitter.com/_/status/599589288364347392)
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@coderdojoli
RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl…
(twitter.com/_/status/599589847951609856)
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@NZN
RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl…
(twitter.com/_/status/599591416226910208)
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@andy_leap
@timmmmyboy @benwerd Cause I quite like that I can build my own blog from scratch in a week and have it work with the whole #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/599591907535249410)
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@timmmmyboy
@andy_leap I mean that's great that you like to build for your site, but #indieweb has to be much more than that for a diverse community.
(twitter.com/_/status/599596008109047808)
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Vendan_
I very strongly believe in open sourcing from the beginning if you are going to do it at all :)
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aaronpk
good morning
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GWG
Good morning, aaronpk
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@timmmmyboy @andy_leap @benwerd Actually the everyone
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tantek
Vendan - I'm ok with a scaffolding approach to bootstrap yourself into something useful
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tantek
what is a hamburger?
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Loqi
The hamburger icon is a triple bar symbol commonly used to indicate a hidden navigation menu https://indiewebcamp.com/hamburger
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aaronpk
!tell benwerd re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-15/line/1431749034230 that's exactly what http://news.indiewebcamp.com is supposed to be, I just need to figure out how to make it easier for people to submit to it (and i'm gonna drop the HN-style ranking)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
kylewm: Vendan: I have the magazine now! it's a whole section on indieweb followed by an article on Known!
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tantek.com
edited /hamburger_icon (+315) "articles section with a new article from BBC News"
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@timmmmyboy I agree. There's also some thoughts on how to grow here: http://indiewebcamp.com/generations It's too fragile to go from 0 to ev...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/generations (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/05/16/2/indieweb)
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Vendan_
aaronpk, I'm not sure it's how hard it is to post to it
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aaronpk
to post to indienews?
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aaronpk
it's a little weird right now
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Vendan_
honestly, I didn't see it until it got mentioned in here
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aaronpk
i want to make it work by just sending a webmention to the home page
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aaronpk
so you can just add a link to news.indiewebcamp.com in any of your posts and it'll show up there
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Vendan_
I'm planning on just making it a syndication target, so I'll get a checkbox on micropub editors and such
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aaronpk
perfect
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Vendan_
question, is there any plans to add the syndication stuff on https://quill.p3k.io/new to https://quill.p3k.io/editor?
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aaronpk
good idea, i should add that to the publish dropdown
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Vendan
that's what I was thinking
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aaronpk
oh yeah that is all already documented here lol https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues
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Vendan
I kinda like the idea of using the precomputed url, cause then I can just have my syndication display a link straight to the comments for it
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aaronpk
my thought was to have the response of the webmention return the URL for it
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aaronpk
so by default if you do nothing you'd be linking to the home page, but if you wanted to make it fancy, you could parse the webmention response and then update your URL
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@dlnorman
RT @benwerd: Endless discussions (rather than creating products) are killing open tech. I still believe in #indieweb because of its bias to…
(twitter.com/_/status/599604686283415553)
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tantek
A planet would be simpler and less work to "use" than either news.indiewebcamp or something micropub based
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aaronpk
you mean having it pull everything with a specific tag or something?
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Vendan
hrm, is the webmention response specced out, or is it just "whatever you want"
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tantek
now that so many of us support PuSH (0.4) - a pure h-feed planet that pulled in everything that mentioned indieweb indiewebcamp just like Loqi does for Twitter
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aaronpk
the webmention response http code is the only thing required
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voxpelli
tantek: I like that idea
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Vendan
i'm not sure I like the idea of having "magic" responses from webmention, unless it's actually part of the spec or something
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tantek
aaronpk - just skip the human-effort heavy curation that is implied by previous ideas, and start with a simple dumb subscribe to all the /PuSH#IndieWeb_Examples and filter on same search that Loqi does with Twitter
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Loqi
is done
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aaronpk
i definitely want a PuSH consumer to pull stuff into this IRC channel
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tantek
it also provides another incentive for folks to implement PuSH 0.4
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aaronpk
i'm just thinking it would need some extra level of filtering to make a nice looking blog-like site, although other automatic filters would be fine too
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Vendan
I need to clean up my comment-presentation, then I'm working on PuSH myself
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aaronpk
like prioritizing blog posts over notes, or making things bigger if they have more likes/comments
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tantek
aaronpk: "would need some extra" - I doubt it - sounds like an artificial dependency
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tantek
start with a simple stream aggregation - let's see what it looks like
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tantek
and only then let's claim what needs to be done next
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aaronpk
starting there is definitely good
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tantek
instead of hypothetical
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tantek
let's see the data before jumping to conclusions about what it might need
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@dlnorman
RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl…
(twitter.com/_/status/599605813334802435)
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aaronpk
i'm also talking about something that is not necessarily meant for the IRC regulars to read
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tantek
how about we start with something we *do* want to read?
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aaronpk
yes i'm definitely going to start with the full #indieweb #indiewebcamp firehose into the IRC channel
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tantek
and then we can get feedback from a broader audience
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Vendan
SELFDOGFOOD: if you don't want to read it, who will?
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tantek
bingo
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Vendan
though it'd probably be good to have some tagging
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Vendan
or something
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kylewm
I love how that incorrect criticism gets way more retweets than benwerd's original positive post :(
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aaronpk
criticism is fun :P
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tantek
kylewm: such is the nature of Twitter
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Vendan
I'm interested in the deep how exactly tags work and stuff, but there's people that will want to just see stuff like quill and such
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tantek
what is the nature of Twitter?
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tantek
The nature of Twitter is that incorrect criticism gets way more retweets than accurate positive posts.
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Vendan
the nature of Twitter is anonymous criticism and mob justice
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loqi.me
created /nature_of_Twitter (+125) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431792330366 and dfn added by tantek"
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Vendan
awwwww
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tantek
Vendan - feel free to expand!
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Vendan
1 second to late for loqi :(
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tantek.com
edited /nature_of_Twitter (+199) "articles, see also"
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voxpelli
with a good firehose it will be interesting to see what kind of dogfed filters that will be built on top
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voxpelli
another area where its currently hard to innovate because of silos (despite Twitters search actually was initially built by a third party as a totally separate service)
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tantek
aaronpk, kylewm the whole focus on open source in that benwerd/timmmmyboy thread is missing the point me thinks
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tantek
which is *UI* innovation - which is what has been lacking in open tech
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tantek
or heck even, UI feature parity with the silos
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aaronpk
would the /irc-people page be a good list of blogs to attempt to subscribe to for Loqi pulling into IRC?
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aaronpk
certainly a good place to start, but i'm wondering if i should plan on having a different way of adding to the list as well
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aaronpk
oh hmm
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tantek
provides incentive to people to actually get PuSH 0.4 working on their site
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tantek
and I think a smaller set to begin with will help shakeout some of the filtering concerns you have
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aaronpk
oh i have no concerns about filtering for the IRC notifications
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aaronpk
i want as much as i can get in here
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tantek
aaronpk when did you start supporting PuSH 0.4 on your site?
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tantek
did you post about it?
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aaronpk
hm good question, i've been trying to make a post when i start supporting a new thing
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aaronpk
PuSH 0.4 works for atom too right?
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tantek
but pointless
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Vendan
doesn't PuSH 0.4 work for just about anything?
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aaronpk
well i had some sort of PuSH on my atom feed for a very long time
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aaronpk
but i can't remember if it was 0.3 or 0.4
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aaronpk
i bet git knows
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tantek
aaronpk - same here - which is why I documented both
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tantek.com
edited /PubSubHubbub (+29) "/* Bret Comnes */ ISO date, separate PuSH 0.4 into clear separate point"
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aaronpk
found it
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aaronparecki.com
edited /PubSubHubbub (+323) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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tantek.com
edited /PubSubHubbub (+62) "/* David Shanske */ clarify use of 0.3 with an RSS feed! (maybe the only indieweb RSS+PuSH supporting site)"
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tantek
aaronpk: you and pfefferle are the only two we don't know about their level of PuSH support in the IndieWeb examples
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aaronpk
not anymore!
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tantek
did you find posts you could cite for your PuSH implementation steps?
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Loqi
[mention] Tim Owens commented '@kylewmahan Maybe it's a matter of presentation. The wiki seems to send the message Here
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tantek.com
edited /PubSubHubbub (+17) "/* Aaron Parecki */ make it more clear that PuSH updates are sent for the HTML (h-entrys) rather than implying a separate feed file from the pages referenced"
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voxpelli
Superfeedr is 0.4, right? Should add myself to that page
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tantek
Superfeedr supports both
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aaronpk
looks like i didn't post about it
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tantek
you could post about it now - citing a change in your own source code
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tantek
from months ago
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tantek
voxpelli: the key question is does your site support PuSH 0.4 for your HTML home page (h-feed or h-entrys)
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voxpelli
tantek: it will in a a few minutes :) not with any of the actual blog post content though :P
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voxpelli
just all of the titles, etc
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tantek
because your home page just has summaries / article names?
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voxpelli
tantek: yes
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tantek
that seems fine
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tantek
Twitter changed their search UI
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tantek
ah yes our projects page still needs more work :/
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aaronpk
it always does :(
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@timmmmyboy
@kylewmahan Maybe it's a matter of presentation. The wiki seems to send the message "Here are 3 ways you can do .. http://timowens.io/2015/kylewmahan-maybe-its-a-matter-of-presentation-the-wiki-seems
(twitter.com/_/status/599612142879289345)
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tantek
the challenge with such project pages is that they become dumping grounds EITHER for "here's all the random crap I'm working on" - whether or not it's actually IndieWeb, or re-usable by others, OR WORSE, "here's all the random crap I found other people working on"
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tantek
if you're interested in helping curate, the /project page is the place to start
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aaronpk
and hard to keep up to date with actual relevant stuff
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tantek
I tried to start doing so in a way that was openly collaborative and explaining on how to help continue curating the page: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#About_This_Page
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tantek
s/explaining on how/explained how
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: I tried to start doing so in a way that was openly collaborative and explained how to help continue curating the page: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#About_This_Page
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tantek.com
edited /projects (+534) "/* About This Page */ better clarify project/example listings on this page, vs. project-specific pages, drop libre projects - not easily actionable in any way"
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tantek
alright I captured the above "challenge" into an "Avoid" section - thinking at least put something in place to discourage new noise as we cleanup existing noise
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bret.io
edited /PubSubHubbub (+2) "/* Bret Comnes */"
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bret.io
edited /PubSubHubbub (-2) "/* Bret Comnes */"
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tantek.com
created /Node (+21) "r"
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tantek.com
edited /Node.js (+138) "libraries section"
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tantek.com
edited /JavaScript (+140) "Libraries section"
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Vendan
For PuSH, the wiki says you can do "standard" pings or fat pings, but the spec seems to say you have to do fat pings
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tantek.com
edited /projects (-58) "combine see alsos, cluster language-specific see also"
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tantek
Vendan - I don't think any of us are doing fat pings with PuSH
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aaronpk
Vendan: yeah, I wrote that on the wiki before all the PuSH spec people came on saying they had to be fat pings
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Vendan
fat pings seems to make more sense to me
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tantek
aaronpk: but they're obviously wrong since we don't do fat pings, and yet we have PuSH 0.4 working between publishers, hubs, and readers
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aaronpk
i still think standard pings are useful though, it removes a ton of the burden on building hubs!
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tantek
so how do we fix this misconception by the spec people?
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aaronpk
fat pings are also harder on readers/consumers, because it requires verifying signatures
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tantek
and when you say they "came on" - came on where?
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aaronpk
irc and github issues
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tantek
which irc?
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Vendan
render once, send to subs at your own rate
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tantek
reallY/
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aaronpk
i think so? I think I remember non-github conversations about that
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tantek
huh - if you can capture the links to IRC logs / github issues in /PuSH somewhere - like issues - disagreement about fat pings
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Vendan
of course, I'm doing it kinda odd, cause there isn't really a separate "hub" in my architecture
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tantek
aaronpk: or we just fork PuSH into a PuSH light
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aaronpk
Vendan: there has to be a separate hub architecturally, even if it's the same server or code base
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aaronpk
"PuSH lite" is what that wiki page is supposed to be
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aaronpk
documenting how it works only relative to HTML pages, disregarding all the other cases you need to handle to deal with other content types like Atom or JSON
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Vendan
yeah, there's a hub bit, but the publish stuff is going to be done by a function call, not by a http request
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tantek
aaronpk: which wiki page? /PuSH ?
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Vendan
is it going to mess up readers if I do fat pings? or will they just ignore it?
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aaronpk
Vendan: ah yeah, that's still PuSH-compliant ;) because PuSH doesn't actually say how publishers have to notify the hub
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aaronpk
Vendan: pretty sure readers will ignore the payload and treat it as a standard ping if you send stuff
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aaronpk
tantek: "This page is a description of a limited version of PuSH 0.4 that is sufficient for supporting the IndieWeb use case of publishing feeds of h-entry posts." https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
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tantek
aaronpk - yup, updating now
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bret
Whatsa fat ping?
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bret
what is a fat ping?
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tantek
A DRY violation?
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bret
What is a thin ping?
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aaronpk
not sure it counts as a DRY violation since the content doesn't actually *live* anywhere else
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Vendan
a fat ping is a PuSH ping that contains a copy of the content that has been changed
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loqi.me
created /fat_ping (+108) "prompted by bret https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431796205423 and dfn added by Vendan"
(view diff)
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bret
Github pages wouldnt be able to fatping, without additional external processing
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aaronpk
personally i think it's a great optimization, but shouldn't be required
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tantek
bret - sounds like good /fat_ping#Criticism to add
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aaronpk
bret: how can github pages even do standard pings on its own?
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Vendan
a thin ping is a PuSH ping that just informs the sub that the content has been updated, but doesn't contain the content
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loqi.me
created /thin_ping (+144) "prompted by bret https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431796238465 and dfn added by Vendan"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
Vendan++
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Loqi
Vendan has 8 karma
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tantek
but no one asked what is a thing ping
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tantek
s/thing/thin
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: but no one asked what is a thin ping
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aaronpk
bret did
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tantek
oh earlier - didn't realize overlaps were possible, cool
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bret
aaronpk: github pages has a decently comprehensive set of webhooks
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tantek
a thin ping is just a ping :P
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aaronpk
oh? interesting
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aaronpk
can you write up how to send a standard ping using the github pages hooks then? that sounds interesting!
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tantek.com
edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+34) "expand dfn use-cases for what this doc covers, editorial tweaking to intro and why"
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bret
so on page build, I tell super feeder... hey come and get it. even if there isnt anything new. the hub hashes the content and pushes based on that anyway
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bret
not the best, but works fine for a low traffic blog
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tantek
^^^ aaronpk a few intro tweaks to /how-to-push - hopefully improved
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aaronpk
oh cool
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aaronpk
bret++
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Loqi
bret has 71 karma
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bret
i need to write up h-feed stuff
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voxpelli
bret: I do that as well, Superfeedr fetches the page and sends it out as a fat ping
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bret
im cool with that.
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bret
thanks superfeeder!
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voxpelli
the reasoning behind it is that it's better to get one fetch from the hub than a thousand at once from all of the subscribers
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aaronpk
oh right of course... it's the hub that determines the payload for the fat ping so it'd work fine with github webhooks too
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voxpelli
so its never the ping _to_ the hub that's fat, it's the ping _from_ the hub :)
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bret
webhooks and webmentions are super useful and rad interfaces
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bret
email is kind of like a fat ping
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Vendan
ugh, should have stopped the stopwatch for that :)
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bret
i makes sense that the hub generates the fat pings though
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Vendan
not really, if you want a truely generic hub
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Vendan
cause if the hub has to generate the fat pings, it needs to know the format if you want to do a diff of it
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aaronpk
i don't think a truly generic hub is a good goal, it's fine for the hub to know about the content type (h-entry, atom, JSON feed, etc)
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voxpelli
in the generic case it just forwards the entire payload as the fat ping?
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bret
Vendan: wouldnt the feed type dicate that?
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aaronpk
voxpelli: that's kind of not really specified in the spec ;)
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Vendan
imo, the publish sends the payload, the hub sends that to all the subs
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Vendan
if you want to diff the payload, do it on the publish side and send the result to the hub
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aaronpk
Vendan: that's definitely not how it's supposed to work, although again tha would stil be considered 0.4-compliant because of how underspecified it is
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bret
that assumes publishers can generate useful payloads
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voxpelli
aaronpk: doesn't it say "with the payload of the notification" and then "The hub MAY reduce the payload to a diff between two consecutive versions if its format allows it."?
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bret
im not really sure though, i've never built a PuSH hub. Julien would be the expert on this
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aaronpk
voxpelli: that's talking about hub->subscriber
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voxpelli
aaronpk: yes? that's the only place there has ever been a fat ping, no?
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aaronpk
oh sorry yes was getting conversation threads mixed up
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aaronpk
yes it looks like hub->consumer fat ping *can* include the full payload not just a diff
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aaronpk
so for unknown content types it could send the whole page
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aaronpk
i wanna call that /how-to-push page PuSH 0.4h
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aaronpk
PuSH 0.4h - an HTML-centric profile of PuSH 0.4
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voxpelli
in the case of feed diffs the diff is still a valid feed so I think one can always assume to get a full feed, and then one just have to diff the content of that to the stuff one already knows
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voxpelli
in regards to the pinging – in practice it has turned out that lots more mechanisms than the one standardized in 0.3 were used and even 0.3 documented alternate mechanisms – so feels like one spec isn't enough for the "notify-a-hub" part
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aaronpk
are those documented/collected somewhere?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: not sure, but eg. Superfeedr allows for both PuSH-pings, XML-RPC pings and for polling – polling also mentione din the 0.3 docs
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voxpelli
And eg. the official Automattic WordPress plugin decided to not do ping at all but rather do all subscriptions pings themselves rather than using a hub: https://wordpress.org/plugins/pushpress/
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voxpelli
so at the end of the day the only thing in common was the subscription interface
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aaronpk
they built the hub into the plugin?
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kylewm
yeah pushpress is its own hub
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tantek
which is why it (and blogs using it) only support PuSH 0.3
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tantek
oddly enough RSS+PuSH 0.3
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GWG
i switched to the other push plug in for now
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kodfabrik.se
edited /PubSubHubbub (+626) "Added myself as an IndieWeb example"
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@gaberivera
Forgive me in advanced for hoisting the tired and tattered open standards flag, but such would be a good "response" to Instant Articles.
(twitter.com/_/status/599337218100985856)
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Vendan
voxpelli, that's what the code I'm working on does too
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voxpelli
Vendan: bypasses the need for a hub? Was part of building such a one recently as well
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Vendan
still working on it, but that's what I've gotten done in an hour or so
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bret
Vendan++
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Loqi
Vendan has 9 karma
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Vendan
need to go eat lunch, then I'm going to get it integrated into indieserv and my blog will have PuSH 0.4 support
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voxpelli
Vendan++
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Loqi
Vendan has 10 karma
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aaronpk
Vendan++ for being amazingly productive
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Loqi
Vendan has 11 karma
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Vendan
I work php for a living, it's fun to code in golang
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bret
go is fun
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bret
Vendan: whats your reading on the go packaging situation? has godep taken over? something else?
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Vendan
my reading is that it's all f***ed up
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Vendan
I prefer gopath mangling over import rewriting, but my current preference is to just use stdlib and my own code
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bret
seems like for all the thought they put into the language as a whole, using global library paths was a massive oversight
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Vendan
I like https://github.com/constabulary/gb but I'm not quite to the point of using it
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Vendan
right now, if I do happen to depend on third party code, I usually fork it on github and import my fork of it
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aaronpk
wow this sounds like the dark ages of PHP :P
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Vendan
it's worse
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aaronpk
downloading php libraries from sourceforge
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Vendan
cause php didn't have a "hey, this does half of it for you, but you're screwed if you want the other half"
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bret
coming from spending the last couple years in node, hearing people talk about copying libs around in go and messing with $LIBPATHS in go is my biggest fear of go. still <3 structs and interfaces
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bret
aaronpk: its not quite that bad, you can do stuff like `go get github.com/tools/godep`
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Vendan
so now half of golang is like "go get is enough!" and the other half is split among various solutions to pinning versions
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Vendan
bret: go get is a curse, really
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bret
but none of it is versioned and its all global!
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bret
git is not a package manager!
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bret
its more like a checkpoint system in the game of programming
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Vendan
ok, time for lunch, be back in a bit
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bret
pinning sucks too
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bret
how to you pull in patches to 50 projects?
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bret
manually?
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bret
uhrggrhglglglgl
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bret
still, the syntax and language is all like http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbqli2nmZm1rqfksw.gif
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KevinMarks
If you "go eat lunch" do you have lunch in a goroutine?
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bret
for { go eat_lunch }
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KevinMarks
Your own forks of packages ìsnt terrible
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KevinMarks
I end up having that issue with npm too, where the package was buggy
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KevinMarks
Or they change the api and break you
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KevinMarks_
lol at the message this page is sending: https://dev.twitter.com/rest/tools/console
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KevinMarks_
the console is completely blank for me
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aaronpk
oh it did that for me too. i had to refresh once and then it worked.
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@annapickard
I want to get in a discipline of writing a certain (small) number of non-work words a day. Is there a platform or app that can help do that?
(twitter.com/_/status/599650378456502272)
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benwerd
It'd be fun to have a few domain-specific micropub clients like this
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Loqi
benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-15/line/1431749034230 that's exactly what http://news.indiewebcamp.com is supposed to be, I just need to figure out how to make it easier for people to submit to it (and i'm gonna drop the HN-style ranking) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431790658894
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benwerd
aaronpk: :)
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aaronpk
benwerd: there was some followup discussion in IRC
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benwerd
I've read it :)
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benwerd
On making it easier: I think it would be interesting to think about how to make it easy for a site like IndieNews to automagically register itself as a syndication endpoint
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benwerd
So I visit it, have some kind of handshake, and boom, it's right there next to Twitter and Facebook next time I post
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aaronpk
what do you think about the other approach of just subscribing to your PuSH hub and filtering your content on keyword
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benwerd
Also works
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aaronpk
although registering a new syndication endpoint sounds like a good idea too :)
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aaronpk
i do think there's value in letting users choose what to push where rather than have everything happen automatically
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aaronpk
i treat twitter and facebook syndication very differently for example, choosing to post certain things to one or the other destination
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Vendan
I personally kind of like the idea of doing it as a micropub endpoint, and just having a setup for syndicating to a micropub endpoint
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KevinMarks_
syndication via micropub makes sense
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KevinMarks_
especially with feverdream
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aaronpk
i'm skeptical that micropub is the right tool for that
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aaronpk
but feel free to prove me wrong by building a prototype ;)
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KevinMarks_
when I was trying quill editor to wordpress.com/tumblr/blogger having to reauth for each was rather annoying
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KevinMarks_
not necessarily the only way, but micropub is a way
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aaronpk
i like the non-authenticated way that overloading webmention allows
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KevinMarks_
right, I think there is space for both a pull and push model here
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aaronpk
it's an overloading of webmention the same way bridgy publish is, so we might want a different name for it
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kylewm
benwerd++ for closing a ton of issues in the last 12 hours
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Loqi
benwerd has 76 karma
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aaronpk
the pattern is source={my post url}&target={website of syndication target} and the response comes back with the URL of the post that is created
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Vendan
the one thing is that it's starting to be more like just generic push notification thing
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KevinMarks_
you could do a less purist version of feverdream that used native auth ratehr than indieauth, and so required less config
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kylewm
I am 100% in favor of making indienews easier to post to, but I think I would like to read and/or help write a semi-weekly high-level summary of what's new in indieweb
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aaronpk
really? wow
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aaronpk
we had one guy doing that for a couple weeks in a row, but it was a lot of work
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Vendan
kylewm, I would be totally in favor of that
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KevinMarks_
this ties in with gabe's challenge
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@gaberivera
Forgive me in advanced for hoisting the tired and tattered open standards flag, but such would be a good "response" to Instant Articles.
(twitter.com/_/status/599337218100985856)
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aaronpk
i mean if people want to write semi-weekly summaries of indieweb news i am all for that! i'd suggest writing them on the wiki so that you can get help writing them
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@gaberivera
@kevinmarks We've needed to extract structure from unstructured html for a decade, so we have a pretty robust scraper (but RSS augments it).
(twitter.com/_/status/599637616674394112)
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kylewm
I dunno, I was cuious if that's what benwerd had in mind with his suggestion
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aaronpk
me too
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benwerd
Kind of, yeah - I think the wiki is probably a good spot
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benwerd
The reason I brought it up is that I realized I wasn't up to date with everything
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benwerd
and if I'm not up to date, it probably means other people might have a hard time too
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aaronpk
i think the unrealistic part of that attempt was trying to summarize IRC conversations
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KevinMarks_
This Week In Indieweb sounds like a leo show
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KevinMarks_
is this indietechmeme?
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GWG
I want to call a show, While You've Been Offline.
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kylewm
whoa yeah, summarizing IRC is Sisyphean
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aaronpk
if we made a wiki category for the "this week" posts I would gladly create an h-feed for it that could be subscribde to in readers
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benwerd
Yeah, I was more thinking like, "hey, this is a new tool that Aaron wrote which is pretty cool" and "we're changing to u-sibling-of from u-sibling, everyone update your links"
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KevinMarks_
techmeme predates meme meaning 'cliched image with white type on"
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aaronpk
also screenshots!
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kylewm
image macro?
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KevinMarks_
indiememe - summarizes the news with loqi-generated memes
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aaronpk
i would looove to do a podcast/youtube series but man do I not have the time for that
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benwerd
A short podcast would actually be neat.
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aaronpk
not it
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benwerd
wonders about aggregating various short audio updates from everyone's own sites into a single, (technically) coherent podcast stream
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aaronpk
hahaha
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Loqi
awesome
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KevinMarks_
a podcast would be good if we commit to actually edit it rather than rambling on like the ones I do
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kylewm
honestly none of the podcasts i listen to are edited
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aaronpk
really? wow. I heavily edit when I do stuff like that
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Editing takes time.
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aaronpk
like to the point of clipping partial words
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KevinMarks_
most I listen to are, as they come from BBC/NPR
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GWG
When I record anything, it is live to tape for that reason.
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kylewm
well like Bad Voltage has segments that I think are recorded separately and edited together
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kylewm
but i don't think they cut out coughing or rambling or anything
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aaronpk
anyway, someone want to take a stab at summarizing this week? :D
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KevinMarks_
if we want a good (cheap) audio editor to do this, my son Andrew is available
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GWG
I think our budget is free
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GWG
I'd record the thing. I just don't know what I'd say that people would be interested in
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@tilde_fortune
"Since the code driving webmention.io is available at github, it may be fun to spin up and try to apply it here" http://tilde.club/~schussat/
(twitter.com/_/status/599661874964209664)
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Vendan
and BAM!
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Vendan
PuSH 0.4 is working on http://vendaria.net/
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kylewm
sigh, need SSL help
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kylewm
trying to run another site on the same server as kylewm.com... nginx doesn't have anything about ssl in the config for this particular domain, but it still redirects to https and says the certificate is only vlid for kylewm.com
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kylewm
why does it do that?
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aaronpk
you're trying to run another SSL site on the same server?
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kylewm
no, another plain site
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aaronpk
also check with curl -i instead of checking in the browser, because browsers tend to cache things and screw up debugging stuff like this
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kylewm
good idea, ty
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kylewm
ack, HTTP 301 Moved Permanently to https
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Vendan
do you have any kind of generic http to https in the nginix config?
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aaronpk
make sure your virtualhost for the new domain doesn't have a rewrite in it
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Vendan
I've seen that set up as just redirect everything instead of just redirect for the one site
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aaronpk
good call
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kylewm
phew, main issue was a missing ; in my nginx config, thanks for the help guys
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aaronpk
heh yep that'd do it :P
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aaronpk
wow this is like a fancy pro version of ownyourgram http://www.instagrate.co.uk/
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voxpelli
regarding "this week in indieweb" – perhaps have people write a "my week in indieweb" and aggregate all those into a weekly?
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voxpelli
hard for a single person make a complete description of the entire community, easy for someone to describe their takeaways of the last week though
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aaronpk
that's why i was suggesting the wiki page, so everyone can add their own stuff
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Loqi
[mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/mediating-music posted 'It is late 2013. I Care if you Listen, a New York based blog about “new classical music, art and technology” that also has a magazine on the...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
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Loqi
[mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/mediating-music posted 'It is late 2013. I Care if you Listen, a New York based blog about “new classical music, art and technology” that also has a magazine on the...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
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voxpelli
aaronpk: I was thinking that people would post in on their own sites, perhaps mentioning a wiki-page or something to create an index of such posts
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aaronpk
oh sure, more like planet aggregation
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voxpelli
would be nice if one could aggregate all such posts and email out a weekly update as well
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aaronpk
i know i've heard other requests for email newsletters about indiewebcamp too
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aaronpk
it's funny, this is sounding like my https://donereports.com a little too
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aaronpk
i like the idea of incentivising people to addd PuSH support to their sites by having this thing subscribe to PuSH
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aaronpk
but the simplicity of mentioning a certain page to be added there is also nice
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voxpelli
mentioning a page feels kind of like the indieweb hashtag?
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aaronpk
heh yeah
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Loqi
[mention] Kyle Mahan posted 'This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf last weekend was a great success, with more...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (https://kylewm.com/2015/05/this-week-in-the-indieweb)
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Loqi
[mention] Kyle Mahan posted 'This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf last weekend was a great success, with more...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany#Blog_Posts (https://kylewm.com/2015/05/this-week-in-the-indieweb)
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kylewm.com
created /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+2137) "Created page with "<p class=""><i>This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week</i><a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany"><br></a></p><p class=""><a href="http://indi...""
(view diff)
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Vendan
I like it, though part of that is cause you mentioned me :D
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kylewm.com
edited /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (-205) "convert HTML to MediaWiki via Pandoc"
(view diff)
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Vendan
though really, I think just that much is a good amount to shoot for, just a quick recap
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kylewm
now i want a micropub plugin for the wiki that pipes through Pandoc to convert HTML to Mediawiki
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Loqi
gives kylewm a micropub plugin for the wiki that pipes through Pandoc to convert HTML to Mediawiki
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kylewm
i want Loqi to hush
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Vendan
also, argh, I use pseudonyms a little to much, esp. as I have my own name as a domain
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kylewm
Vendan: you can create a template expansion for yourself on the wiki if you want {{Vendan}} -> your full name. e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/Template:kylewm
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Vendan
k, I'm actually running through the changes I need to change over from vendaria.net to andyleap.net
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Vendan
and there, andyleap.net is now up and running
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aaronpk
kylewm++ I totally missed the rel-urls thing until I read that summary :)
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Loqi
kylewm has 169 karma
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Vendan
dude, aaronpk, you have some scary amazing graphics talent
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aaronpk
Vendan: thanks? are you talking about Quill? cause most of that was design borrowed from elsewhere ;)
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Vendan
more your homepage and https://switchboard.p3k.io/ and such
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aaronpk
ah! thx :)
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aaronparecki.com
created /Category:this-week (+92) "Created page with "Add <code><nowiki>[[Category:this-week]]</nowiki></code> to pages to have them show up here.""
(view diff)
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Vendan
hey, is there anyway to shove stuff from vendaria.net to andyleap.net in the wiki, or am I just going to end up with a new "account" on there
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aaronpk
it'll be a new account
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Vendan
k, that's fine
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aaronpk
i think Bad Things™ might happen if I try to poke at the database to change it
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Vendan
lol, np
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Vendan
I just logged in as andyleap.net without issue
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aaronpk
kylewm: who runs https://mf2py.herokuapp.com and does it need to be updated with the latest mf2py changes?
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Vendan
I'll go through and rework references to vendaria.net in a little bit
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tantek
lol at "poke at the database"
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tantek.com
edited /like (+92) "/* FB likes in allactivity */ link to public photo album that's referenced"
(view diff)
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tantek
I really feel like I could benefit from pair-editing the /projects wiki page
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tantek
like in-person
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aaronpk
possibly an activity for writing hour before HWC?
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aaronpk
wow that page is intimidating
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aaronpk
here's another thought... drop the bulk of the content from that page, moving anything to the project-specific pages as needed
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aaronpk
then the /projects page becomes links to other pages, so it'd be much shorter and hopefully easier to maintain
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KartikPrabhu
asked a question in #microformats if anyone wants to answer :)
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KartikPrabhu
what is checkin?
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Loqi
A checkin is the action of checking into a location and sharing that information https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin
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KartikPrabhu
what is a collection?
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Teacup (-32) "fix dfn"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+165) "/* Clients */ add teacup, update quill"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+386) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+127) "/* Jeremy Keith */"
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