#indiewebcamp 2015-05-16

2015-05-16 UTC
wolftune and awolf joined the channel
#
@chim0 #TIL about #IndieAuth https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/599366723729502208)
wolftune, awolf, KevinMarks, KevinMarks__, snarfed, KartikPrabhu and frzn joined the channel
#
@mark_domnin RT @adactio: “Indieweb: Die Daten Sind Wir!” https://twitter.com/adactio/status/598238450853224448/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/599406285445009409)
tantek joined the channel
#
tantek hmm just noticed that indiewebcamp.com pages have <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" /> in the head, but if you actually try to load /favicon.ico you get a mediawiki no page here page. cc: aaronpk
mlncn joined the channel
#
Vendan woo, wercker is still working for my mf2 parser builds!
#
tantek.com edited /webactions (+1700) "/* silo button variance */ new section: silo button examples with FB, G+, Pinterest, Reddit, Tumblr" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /webactions (+9) "/* silo button examples */ /nowiki" (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
Vendan woot, WebMention is at least starting to work
#
@lucas_gonze @ @dshanske IndieWeb Post Kinds 1.4.0 causes this bug: https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/23bb922b5dfa2be2941a (twitter.com/_/status/599411390353289216)
#
Loqi yay!
tilgovi and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
Vendan huh, wierd, does https://quill.p3k.io/editor send a h=entry as well as the name and content?
benwerd and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @SwiftOnSecurity federation is hard, let's go shopping. Or writing actually interoperable protocols #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/599421637985837056)
#
Vendan nvm, it was my fault
#
@benwerd Endless discussions (rather than creating products) are killing open tech. I still believe in #indieweb because of its bias towards action. (twitter.com/_/status/599423312482013184)
#
Vendan woo http://vendaria.net/post/koO21QrgpPrdBA==
#
Vendan It's practically almost usable!
#
benwerd Congrats!
#
benwerd A thought: I'm beginning to think the Indieweb community needs a blog / journal. The wiki is good, but a kind of human-friendly changelog for the current state of play would be really good.
almereyda joined the channel
#
benwerd I say this because I've not been paying as much attention over the last couple of weeks, out of necessity, and there have been a lot of new implementations and client apps.
#
benwerd I only realized aaronpk's new Quill interface happened because kevinmarks alerted me.
#
benwerd It'd also help show momentum in the group.
#
Vendan be neat to have it be done by syndicating posts from authors
#
Vendan i.e. it could have syndicated https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/05/11/1/ to talk about the quill editor
#
benwerd On-topic posts, for sure
#
benwerd Yes
#
Vendan yeah, curated syndication
#
Vendan not just merging all the posts of the authors
#
benwerd Curation is good
#
benwerd Hmmhmm
#
kylewm benwerd: are you thinking it would be sort of written/maintained by 1-2 people on a regular basis? (as opposed to like indienews)
#
Vendan heh, he quit
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
kylewm doh
#
kylewm well I like the idea of a prose "this week in indieweb", actually sort of been thinking the same thing for a while
#
Vendan that'd be a little different, but still a good idea
#
kylewm oh is that different?
#
Vendan I was just thinking a "retweet" kind of thing
#
kylewm has anyone read that IndieWeb: Die Daten Sind Wir article? I've only seen that one same picture of the cover over and over :p
LCyrin joined the channel
#
Vendan aaron may have a copy of it now, https://twitter.com/textformer/status/585331228074729472
#
@textformer @aaronpk I will give a copy next month at IndieWebCampGermany, ok? (cc @pfefferle) (twitter.com/_/status/585331228074729472)
#
kylewm Vendan: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/ sort of fills that role. it's a little bit tricky to post to now
#
Vendan did not know about that
#
kylewm sort of fills that role ==> could fill that role if more people posted to it
#
Vendan bleh, indieauth.com :P
#
kylewm do you know Ruby?
#
Vendan nope
#
kylewm darn, me neither
#
Vendan php, python, go, assembly, c#, AS3, but no ruby
tvn, LCyrin, eschnou, almereyda, KartikPrabhu and tilgovi joined the channel
#
willnorris.com edited /image_proxy (-61) "my proxy is no longer limited to just images on my site" (view diff)
benwerd, KevinMarks__, tilgovi and loic_m joined the channel
#
@elfpavlik @DTNConf did you invite folks who organize @border_none, @decentcamp, @GETDcent and @indiewebcamp Berlin? http:/// (twitter.com/_/status/599470728870760448)
#
@hij1nx @elfpavlik @DTNConf @border_none @decentcamp @GETDcent @indiewebcamp i hear there are 3 tickets left :) (twitter.com/_/status/599471143175790593)
afrogeek and tilgovi joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik !tell fkooman reading SAML makes me think of you :D http://www.gluu.org/gluu-server/overview/
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
@JockelLohkamp Thx @elfpavlik @DTNConf @border_none @decentcamp @GETDcent @indiewebcamp Interested in Tix! (twitter.com/_/status/599476451096797184)
nloadholtes, KevinMarks and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
@diplix @pkrautz ix schreib später noch dazu, aber FB instant articles sind natürlich einwandfreies POSSE im indieweb-sinn: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/599479978078687232)
benwerd joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik hi benwerd
#
benwerd howdy
elf-pavlik joined the channel
#
elf-pavlik what is subdomain?
#
Loqi A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain
#
elf-pavlik benward, you use path alternative in withknown ?
#
elf-pavlik http://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain#Path_alternative
#
benwerd * benwerd (sorry benward, again ;) - and yes, we do, for self-hosted users in particular
#
benwerd we've found that most self-hosters don't have enough control to establish username subdomains
#
benwerd it's too much of a technical challenge
#
elf-pavlik could you possibly add it to that wiki page?
#
benwerd sure
#
elf-pavlik benwerd++
#
Loqi benwerd has 75 karma
#
elf-pavlik i will also add adv of bit easier way to have HTTPS working when using paths
#
werd.io edited /subdomain (+288) "/* Path alternative */" (view diff)
#
werd.io edited /subdomain (+0) "/* Indieweb Path Examples */" (view diff)
#
werd.io edited /web_hosting (+239) "/* Shared Hosting */" (view diff)
#
benwerd Added a few points. Closing down for the night but I have some thoughts on things to add tomorrow, now that you mention it. :)
#
elf-pavlik thanks benwerd and good night!
#
Loqi see you in the morning!
KartikPrabhu, j12t, eschnou, mlncn and interactivist joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Peter Krautzberger replied '@diplix hui. Der Vergleich scheint mir etwa gewagt. Post everywhere that's an iPhone? Print ist dann auch posse? ;-)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/pkrautz/status/599495128944869376)
tantek, amblin_ and amblin joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] felix schwenzel replied '@pkrautz syndikation ist ja nix neues. gang und gäbe bei US-zeitungen. ob ”žreally simple“, zu fb oder in den print ist dann ja sekundär.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/diplix/status/599501702702755840)
ben_thatmustbeme and tmro joined the channel
#
tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
danlyke_, ShaneHudson_, cmhobbs, marjolein, arlen, j12t, tantek__, cstanhope, Vendan, KartikPrabhu, Deledrius and Vendan_ joined the channel
#
@timmmmyboy @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicable models. (twitter.com/_/status/599529401026551808)
j12t, eschnou, wilfredh, frzn, nloadholtes, loic_m, KevinMarks, KevinMarks__, Deledrius_ and mlncn joined the channel
#
@LukasRosenstock "I accidentally deleted my blog and realized what freedom really means" (by @martinweigert): http://meshedsociety.com/i-accidentally-deleted-my-blog-and-realized-what-freedom-really-means/?utm_content=bufferf942f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/599578877703356416)
Leeky joined the channel
#
@kylewmahan @timmmmyboy That isn’t completely fair. #indieweb model is more “be your own first user” … or “why would anyone… https://kylewm.com/2015/05/that-isn-t-completely-fair-indieweb-model-is-more (twitter.com/_/status/599583014947958786)
#
Loqi [mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/ten-years posted 'It’s been 10 years since rudigermeyer.com first went online. I thought it might be interesting to trace the trajectory of that decade from a...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
#
@kylewmahan @benwerd I really liked your idea to have a blog/journal summarizing what’s new in indieweb. Good use for a multi-user Known site? (twitter.com/_/status/599584600109633536)
#
Vendan_ kylewm, it would be interesting to have it be a shared site that a few people have access to, and have them use micropub to syndicate to it
#
@CoderDojoVA RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl… (twitter.com/_/status/599589288364347392)
#
@coderdojoli RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl… (twitter.com/_/status/599589847951609856)
Deledrius_, tantek, prtksxna, jonnybarnes, reidab, ben_thatmustbeme, halorgium, Leeky and amblin joined the channel
#
@NZN RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl… (twitter.com/_/status/599591416226910208)
friedcell joined the channel
#
@andy_leap @timmmmyboy @benwerd Cause I quite like that I can build my own blog from scratch in a week and have it work with the whole #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/599591907535249410)
bigbluehat joined the channel
#
@timmmmyboy @andy_leap I mean that's great that you like to build for your site, but #indieweb has to be much more than that for a diverse community. (twitter.com/_/status/599596008109047808)
#
@andy_leap @timmmmyboy https://github.com/andyleap/webmention is my WebMention library, https://github.com/andyleap/goindieauth is my indieauth/token library (twitter.com/_/status/599597203804524544)
#
Vendan_ I very strongly believe in open sourcing from the beginning if you are going to do it at all :)
#
aaronpk good morning
#
GWG Good morning, aaronpk
#
Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@timmmmyboy @andy_leap @benwerd Actually the everyone
#
tantek Vendan - I'm ok with a scaffolding approach to bootstrap yourself into something useful
#
tantek what is a hamburger?
#
Loqi The hamburger icon is a triple bar symbol commonly used to indicate a hidden navigation menu https://indiewebcamp.com/hamburger
#
aaronpk !tell benwerd re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-15/line/1431749034230 that's exactly what http://news.indiewebcamp.com is supposed to be, I just need to figure out how to make it easier for people to submit to it (and i'm gonna drop the HN-style ranking)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk kylewm: Vendan: I have the magazine now! it's a whole section on indieweb followed by an article on Known!
Leeky joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /hamburger_icon (+315) "articles section with a new article from BBC News" (view diff)
#
@aaronpk @timmmmyboy I agree. There's also some thoughts on how to grow here: http://indiewebcamp.com/generations It's too fragile to go... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/05/16/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/599601760030752768)
#
Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@timmmmyboy I agree. There's also some thoughts on how to grow here: http://indiewebcamp.com/generations It's too fragile to go from 0 to ev...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/generations (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/05/16/2/indieweb)
#
Vendan_ aaronpk, I'm not sure it's how hard it is to post to it
#
aaronpk to post to indienews?
#
aaronpk it's a little weird right now
#
Vendan_ honestly, I didn't see it until it got mentioned in here
#
Vendan_ yeah
#
aaronpk i want to make it work by just sending a webmention to the home page
#
aaronpk so you can just add a link to news.indiewebcamp.com in any of your posts and it'll show up there
#
Vendan_ I'm planning on just making it a syndication target, so I'll get a checkbox on micropub editors and such
#
aaronpk perfect
#
Vendan_ question, is there any plans to add the syndication stuff on https://quill.p3k.io/new to https://quill.p3k.io/editor?
#
aaronpk good idea, i should add that to the publish dropdown
#
Vendan that's what I was thinking
shiflett joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh yeah that is all already documented here lol https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues
#
Vendan I kinda like the idea of using the precomputed url, cause then I can just have my syndication display a link straight to the comments for it
#
aaronpk my thought was to have the response of the webmention return the URL for it
#
aaronpk so by default if you do nothing you'd be linking to the home page, but if you wanted to make it fancy, you could parse the webmention response and then update your URL
#
@dlnorman RT @benwerd: Endless discussions (rather than creating products) are killing open tech. I still believe in #indieweb because of its bias to… (twitter.com/_/status/599604686283415553)
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek A planet would be simpler and less work to "use" than either news.indiewebcamp or something micropub based
#
aaronpk you mean having it pull everything with a specific tag or something?
#
Vendan hrm, is the webmention response specced out, or is it just "whatever you want"
#
tantek now that so many of us support PuSH (0.4) - a pure h-feed planet that pulled in everything that mentioned indieweb indiewebcamp just like Loqi does for Twitter
#
aaronpk the webmention response http code is the only thing required
#
voxpelli tantek: I like that idea
#
Vendan i'm not sure I like the idea of having "magic" responses from webmention, unless it's actually part of the spec or something
#
tantek aaronpk - just skip the human-effort heavy curation that is implied by previous ideas, and start with a simple dumb subscribe to all the /PuSH#IndieWeb_Examples and filter on same search that Loqi does with Twitter
#
Loqi is done
#
aaronpk i definitely want a PuSH consumer to pull stuff into this IRC channel
#
tantek it also provides another incentive for folks to implement PuSH 0.4
#
aaronpk i'm just thinking it would need some extra level of filtering to make a nice looking blog-like site, although other automatic filters would be fine too
#
Vendan I need to clean up my comment-presentation, then I'm working on PuSH myself
#
aaronpk like prioritizing blog posts over notes, or making things bigger if they have more likes/comments
#
tantek aaronpk: "would need some extra" - I doubt it - sounds like an artificial dependency
#
tantek start with a simple stream aggregation - let's see what it looks like
#
tantek and only then let's claim what needs to be done next
#
aaronpk starting there is definitely good
#
tantek instead of hypothetical
#
tantek let's see the data before jumping to conclusions about what it might need
#
@dlnorman RT @timmmmyboy: @benwerd My criticism of #indieweb would be the insular nature of the “build for yourself” mentality. Lots of non-replicabl… (twitter.com/_/status/599605813334802435)
#
aaronpk i'm also talking about something that is not necessarily meant for the IRC regulars to read
#
tantek how about we start with something we *do* want to read?
#
aaronpk yes i'm definitely going to start with the full #indieweb #indiewebcamp firehose into the IRC channel
#
tantek and then we can get feedback from a broader audience
#
Vendan SELFDOGFOOD: if you don't want to read it, who will?
#
Vendan lol
#
tantek bingo
#
Vendan though it'd probably be good to have some tagging
#
Vendan or something
#
kylewm I love how that incorrect criticism gets way more retweets than benwerd's original positive post :(
#
aaronpk criticism is fun :P
#
tantek kylewm: such is the nature of Twitter
#
Vendan I'm interested in the deep how exactly tags work and stuff, but there's people that will want to just see stuff like quill and such
#
tantek what is the nature of Twitter?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "nature of Twitter" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=nature+of+Twitter&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-16%2Fline%2F1431792330366
#
aaronpk lol
#
tantek The nature of Twitter is that incorrect criticism gets way more retweets than accurate positive posts.
#
Vendan the nature of Twitter is anonymous criticism and mob justice
#
loqi.me created /nature_of_Twitter (+125) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431792330366 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
Vendan awwwww
#
tantek Vendan - feel free to expand!
#
tantek see also: https://medium.com/from-powazek-com/the-argument-machine-ff85e8c2b2f7
#
Vendan 1 second to late for loqi :(
#
tantek.com edited /nature_of_Twitter (+199) "articles, see also" (view diff)
#
voxpelli with a good firehose it will be interesting to see what kind of dogfed filters that will be built on top
#
voxpelli another area where its currently hard to innovate because of silos (despite Twitters search actually was initially built by a third party as a totally separate service)
#
tantek aaronpk, kylewm the whole focus on open source in that benwerd/timmmmyboy thread is missing the point me thinks
#
tantek which is *UI* innovation - which is what has been lacking in open tech
#
tantek or heck even, UI feature parity with the silos
#
aaronpk would the /irc-people page be a good list of blogs to attempt to subscribe to for Loqi pulling into IRC?
#
aaronpk certainly a good place to start, but i'm wondering if i should plan on having a different way of adding to the list as well
#
tantek aaronpk - I was figuring https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH#IndieWeb_Examples
#
aaronpk oh hmm
#
tantek provides incentive to people to actually get PuSH 0.4 working on their site
#
tantek and I think a smaller set to begin with will help shakeout some of the filtering concerns you have
#
aaronpk oh i have no concerns about filtering for the IRC notifications
#
aaronpk i want as much as i can get in here
#
tantek aaronpk when did you start supporting PuSH 0.4 on your site?
#
tantek did you post about it?
#
aaronpk hm good question, i've been trying to make a post when i start supporting a new thing
#
tantek same
#
aaronpk PuSH 0.4 works for atom too right?
#
tantek but pointless
#
Vendan doesn't PuSH 0.4 work for just about anything?
#
aaronpk well i had some sort of PuSH on my atom feed for a very long time
#
aaronpk but i can't remember if it was 0.3 or 0.4
#
aaronpk i bet git knows
#
tantek aaronpk - same here - which is why I documented both
#
tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+29) "/* Bret Comnes */ ISO date, separate PuSH 0.4 into clear separate point" (view diff)
elf-pavlik_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk found it
#
aaronparecki.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+323) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+62) "/* David Shanske */ clarify use of 0.3 with an RSS feed! (maybe the only indieweb RSS+PuSH supporting site)" (view diff)
#
tantek aaronpk: you and pfefferle are the only two we don't know about their level of PuSH support in the IndieWeb examples
#
aaronpk not anymore!
#
tantek did you find posts you could cite for your PuSH implementation steps?
#
Loqi [mention] Tim Owens commented '@kylewmahan Maybe it's a matter of presentation. The wiki seems to send the message Here
#
tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+17) "/* Aaron Parecki */ make it more clear that PuSH updates are sent for the HTML (h-entrys) rather than implying a separate feed file from the pages referenced" (view diff)
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
voxpelli Superfeedr is 0.4, right? Should add myself to that page
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek Superfeedr supports both
#
aaronpk looks like i didn't post about it
#
tantek aww
#
tantek you could post about it now - citing a change in your own source code
#
tantek from months ago
#
tantek voxpelli: the key question is does your site support PuSH 0.4 for your HTML home page (h-feed or h-entrys)
#
voxpelli tantek: it will in a a few minutes :) not with any of the actual blog post content though :P
#
voxpelli just all of the titles, etc
#
tantek because your home page just has summaries / article names?
#
voxpelli tantek: yes
#
tantek that seems fine
#
aaronpk tantek: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/16/1/p3k :)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
tantek Twitter changed their search UI
#
tantek ah yes our projects page still needs more work :/
#
aaronpk it always does :(
#
tantek https://twitter.com/timmmmyboy/status/599612142879289345
#
@timmmmyboy @kylewmahan Maybe it's a matter of presentation. The wiki seems to send the message "Here are 3 ways you can do .. http://timowens.io/2015/kylewmahan-maybe-its-a-matter-of-presentation-the-wiki-seems (twitter.com/_/status/599612142879289345)
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek the challenge with such project pages is that they become dumping grounds EITHER for "here's all the random crap I'm working on" - whether or not it's actually IndieWeb, or re-usable by others, OR WORSE, "here's all the random crap I found other people working on"
#
tantek if you're interested in helping curate, the /project page is the place to start
#
aaronpk and hard to keep up to date with actual relevant stuff
#
tantek I tried to start doing so in a way that was openly collaborative and explaining on how to help continue curating the page: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#About_This_Page
#
tantek s/explaining on how/explained how
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: I tried to start doing so in a way that was openly collaborative and explained how to help continue curating the page: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#About_This_Page
KevinMarks, wolftune, KevinMarks__ and snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /projects (+534) "/* About This Page */ better clarify project/example listings on this page, vs. project-specific pages, drop libre projects - not easily actionable in any way" (view diff)
#
tantek alright I captured the above "challenge" into an "Avoid" section - thinking at least put something in place to discourage new noise as we cleanup existing noise
#
tantek please review: http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Avoid_Cluttering_This_Page_With
#
bret.io edited /PubSubHubbub (+2) "/* Bret Comnes */" (view diff)
#
bret.io edited /PubSubHubbub (-2) "/* Bret Comnes */" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /Node (+21) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Node.js (+138) "libraries section" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /JavaScript (+140) "Libraries section" (view diff)
#
Vendan For PuSH, the wiki says you can do "standard" pings or fat pings, but the spec seems to say you have to do fat pings
#
tantek.com edited /projects (-58) "combine see alsos, cluster language-specific see also" (view diff)
#
tantek Vendan - I don't think any of us are doing fat pings with PuSH
#
Vendan k
#
aaronpk Vendan: yeah, I wrote that on the wiki before all the PuSH spec people came on saying they had to be fat pings
#
Vendan fat pings seems to make more sense to me
#
tantek aaronpk: but they're obviously wrong since we don't do fat pings, and yet we have PuSH 0.4 working between publishers, hubs, and readers
#
aaronpk i still think standard pings are useful though, it removes a ton of the burden on building hubs!
#
tantek so how do we fix this misconception by the spec people?
#
aaronpk fat pings are also harder on readers/consumers, because it requires verifying signatures
#
tantek and when you say they "came on" - came on where?
#
aaronpk irc and github issues
#
tantek which irc?
#
Vendan render once, send to subs at your own rate
#
aaronpk here
#
tantek reallY/
#
aaronpk i think so? I think I remember non-github conversations about that
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek huh - if you can capture the links to IRC logs / github issues in /PuSH somewhere - like issues - disagreement about fat pings
#
Vendan of course, I'm doing it kinda odd, cause there isn't really a separate "hub" in my architecture
#
tantek aaronpk: or we just fork PuSH into a PuSH light
#
aaronpk Vendan: there has to be a separate hub architecturally, even if it's the same server or code base
#
aaronpk "PuSH lite" is what that wiki page is supposed to be
#
aaronpk documenting how it works only relative to HTML pages, disregarding all the other cases you need to handle to deal with other content types like Atom or JSON
#
Vendan yeah, there's a hub bit, but the publish stuff is going to be done by a function call, not by a http request
#
tantek aaronpk: which wiki page? /PuSH ?
#
aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
#
Vendan is it going to mess up readers if I do fat pings? or will they just ignore it?
#
aaronpk Vendan: ah yeah, that's still PuSH-compliant ;) because PuSH doesn't actually say how publishers have to notify the hub
#
aaronpk Vendan: pretty sure readers will ignore the payload and treat it as a standard ping if you send stuff
#
aaronpk tantek: "This page is a description of a limited version of PuSH 0.4 that is sufficient for supporting the IndieWeb use case of publishing feeds of h-entry posts." https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
tilgovi joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - yup, updating now
#
bret Whatsa fat ping?
#
bret what is a fat ping?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fat ping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=fat+ping&summary=prompted+by+bret+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-16%2Fline%2F1431796205423
#
tantek A DRY violation?
#
bret What is a thin ping?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "thin ping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=thin+ping&summary=prompted+by+bret+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-16%2Fline%2F1431796238465
#
aaronpk not sure it counts as a DRY violation since the content doesn't actually *live* anywhere else
#
Vendan a fat ping is a PuSH ping that contains a copy of the content that has been changed
#
loqi.me created /fat_ping (+108) "prompted by bret https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431796205423 and dfn added by Vendan" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
bret Github pages wouldnt be able to fatping, without additional external processing
#
aaronpk personally i think it's a great optimization, but shouldn't be required
#
tantek bret - sounds like good /fat_ping#Criticism to add
#
aaronpk bret: how can github pages even do standard pings on its own?
#
Vendan a thin ping is a PuSH ping that just informs the sub that the content has been updated, but doesn't contain the content
#
loqi.me created /thin_ping (+144) "prompted by bret https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431796238465 and dfn added by Vendan" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronpk Vendan++
#
Loqi Vendan has 8 karma
#
tantek but no one asked what is a thing ping
#
tantek s/thing/thin
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: but no one asked what is a thin ping
#
aaronpk bret did
#
tantek oh earlier - didn't realize overlaps were possible, cool
#
bret aaronpk: github pages has a decently comprehensive set of webhooks
#
tantek a thin ping is just a ping :P
#
aaronpk oh? interesting
#
aaronpk can you write up how to send a standard ping using the github pages hooks then? that sounds interesting!
#
tantek.com edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+34) "expand dfn use-cases for what this doc covers, editorial tweaking to intro and why" (view diff)
#
bret so on page build, I tell super feeder... hey come and get it. even if there isnt anything new. the hub hashes the content and pushes based on that anyway
#
bret not the best, but works fine for a low traffic blog
#
tantek ^^^ aaronpk a few intro tweaks to /how-to-push - hopefully improved
#
aaronpk oh cool
#
bret aaronpk: http://bret.io/2014/03/16/github-pages-pubsubhubbub-support-levels-up/
#
vendaria.net edited /fat_ping (+369) (view diff)
#
aaronpk bret++
#
Loqi bret has 71 karma
#
bret i need to write up h-feed stuff
#
voxpelli bret: I do that as well, Superfeedr fetches the page and sends it out as a fat ping
#
bret im cool with that.
#
bret thanks superfeeder!
#
voxpelli the reasoning behind it is that it's better to get one fetch from the hub than a thousand at once from all of the subscribers
#
aaronpk oh right of course... it's the hub that determines the payload for the fat ping so it'd work fine with github webhooks too
#
voxpelli so its never the ping _to_ the hub that's fat, it's the ping _from_ the hub :)
#
aaronpk right
#
vendaria.net edited /thin_ping (+162) (view diff)
#
bret webhooks and webmentions are super useful and rad interfaces
#
bret email is kind of like a fat ping
#
Vendan ugh, should have stopped the stopwatch for that :)
#
bret i makes sense that the hub generates the fat pings though
#
Vendan not really, if you want a truely generic hub
#
Vendan cause if the hub has to generate the fat pings, it needs to know the format if you want to do a diff of it
#
aaronpk i don't think a truly generic hub is a good goal, it's fine for the hub to know about the content type (h-entry, atom, JSON feed, etc)
#
voxpelli in the generic case it just forwards the entire payload as the fat ping?
#
bret Vendan: wouldnt the feed type dicate that?
#
aaronpk voxpelli: that's kind of not really specified in the spec ;)
#
Vendan imo, the publish sends the payload, the hub sends that to all the subs
#
Vendan if you want to diff the payload, do it on the publish side and send the result to the hub
#
aaronpk Vendan: that's definitely not how it's supposed to work, although again tha would stil be considered 0.4-compliant because of how underspecified it is
#
bret that assumes publishers can generate useful payloads
#
voxpelli aaronpk: doesn't it say "with the payload of the notification" and then "The hub MAY reduce the payload to a diff between two consecutive versions if its format allows it."?
#
bret im not really sure though, i've never built a PuSH hub. Julien would be the expert on this
#
aaronpk voxpelli: that's talking about hub->subscriber
#
voxpelli aaronpk: yes? that's the only place there has ever been a fat ping, no?
#
aaronpk oh sorry yes was getting conversation threads mixed up
#
aaronpk yes it looks like hub->consumer fat ping *can* include the full payload not just a diff
#
aaronpk so for unknown content types it could send the whole page
#
aaronpk i wanna call that /how-to-push page PuSH 0.4h
#
aaronpk PuSH 0.4h - an HTML-centric profile of PuSH 0.4
#
voxpelli in the case of feed diffs the diff is still a valid feed so I think one can always assume to get a full feed, and then one just have to diff the content of that to the stuff one already knows
#
voxpelli in regards to the pinging – in practice it has turned out that lots more mechanisms than the one standardized in 0.3 were used and even 0.3 documented alternate mechanisms – so feels like one spec isn't enough for the "notify-a-hub" part
#
aaronpk are those documented/collected somewhere?
#
voxpelli aaronpk: not sure, but eg. Superfeedr allows for both PuSH-pings, XML-RPC pings and for polling – polling also mentione din the 0.3 docs
tvn joined the channel
#
voxpelli And eg. the official Automattic WordPress plugin decided to not do ping at all but rather do all subscriptions pings themselves rather than using a hub: https://wordpress.org/plugins/pushpress/
#
voxpelli so at the end of the day the only thing in common was the subscription interface
#
aaronpk they built the hub into the plugin?
#
kylewm yeah pushpress is its own hub
#
tantek which is why it (and blogs using it) only support PuSH 0.3
#
tantek oddly enough RSS+PuSH 0.3
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG i switched to the other push plug in for now
#
kodfabrik.se edited /PubSubHubbub (+626) "Added myself as an IndieWeb example" (view diff)
mlncn and snarfed joined the channel
#
KevinMarks https://twitter.com/gaberivera/status/599337218100985856
#
@gaberivera Forgive me in advanced for hoisting the tired and tattered open standards flag, but such would be a good "response" to Instant Articles. (twitter.com/_/status/599337218100985856)
afrogeek and emmak joined the channel
#
Vendan voxpelli, that's what the code I'm working on does too
#
voxpelli Vendan: bypasses the need for a hub? Was part of building such a one recently as well
#
Vendan yeah, https://github.com/andyleap/gopub
#
Vendan still working on it, but that's what I've gotten done in an hour or so
#
bret Vendan++
#
Loqi Vendan has 9 karma
#
Vendan need to go eat lunch, then I'm going to get it integrated into indieserv and my blog will have PuSH 0.4 support
#
voxpelli Vendan++
#
Loqi Vendan has 10 karma
#
aaronpk whee
#
aaronpk Vendan++ for being amazingly productive
#
Loqi Vendan has 11 karma
#
Vendan lol
#
Vendan I work php for a living, it's fun to code in golang
#
bret go is fun
#
bret Vendan: whats your reading on the go packaging situation? has godep taken over? something else?
#
Vendan my reading is that it's all f***ed up
#
Vendan I prefer gopath mangling over import rewriting, but my current preference is to just use stdlib and my own code
#
bret seems like for all the thought they put into the language as a whole, using global library paths was a massive oversight
#
Vendan I like https://github.com/constabulary/gb but I'm not quite to the point of using it
#
Vendan right now, if I do happen to depend on third party code, I usually fork it on github and import my fork of it
#
aaronpk wow this sounds like the dark ages of PHP :P
#
Vendan it's worse
#
aaronpk downloading php libraries from sourceforge
#
Vendan cause php didn't have a "hey, this does half of it for you, but you're screwed if you want the other half"
#
bret coming from spending the last couple years in node, hearing people talk about copying libs around in go and messing with $LIBPATHS in go is my biggest fear of go. still <3 structs and interfaces
#
bret aaronpk: its not quite that bad, you can do stuff like `go get github.com/tools/godep`
#
Vendan so now half of golang is like "go get is enough!" and the other half is split among various solutions to pinning versions
#
Vendan bret: go get is a curse, really
#
bret but none of it is versioned and its all global!
#
bret git is not a package manager!
#
bret its more like a checkpoint system in the game of programming
#
bret :]
#
Vendan ok, time for lunch, be back in a bit
#
bret pinning sucks too
#
bret how to you pull in patches to 50 projects?
#
bret manually?
#
bret uhrggrhglglglgl
#
bret still, the syntax and language is all like http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbqli2nmZm1rqfksw.gif
#
KevinMarks If you "go eat lunch" do you have lunch in a goroutine?
#
bret for { go eat_lunch }
#
KevinMarks Your own forks of packages ìsnt terrible
#
KevinMarks I end up having that issue with npm too, where the package was buggy
#
KevinMarks Or they change the api and break you
KevinMarks__ and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ lol at the message this page is sending: https://dev.twitter.com/rest/tools/console
#
aaronpk ?
#
KevinMarks_ the console is completely blank for me
#
aaronpk oh it did that for me too. i had to refresh once and then it worked.
benwerd joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ hmm
#
KevinMarks_ micropub client request? https://twitter.com/annapickard/status/599650378456502272
#
@annapickard I want to get in a discipline of writing a certain (small) number of non-work words a day. Is there a platform or app that can help do that? (twitter.com/_/status/599650378456502272)
#
benwerd It'd be fun to have a few domain-specific micropub clients like this
#
Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-15/line/1431749034230 that's exactly what http://news.indiewebcamp.com is supposed to be, I just need to figure out how to make it easier for people to submit to it (and i'm gonna drop the HN-style ranking) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-16/line/1431790658894
#
benwerd aaronpk: :)
#
aaronpk benwerd: there was some followup discussion in IRC
#
benwerd I've read it :)
#
benwerd On making it easier: I think it would be interesting to think about how to make it easy for a site like IndieNews to automagically register itself as a syndication endpoint
#
benwerd So I visit it, have some kind of handshake, and boom, it's right there next to Twitter and Facebook next time I post
#
aaronpk what do you think about the other approach of just subscribing to your PuSH hub and filtering your content on keyword
#
benwerd Also works
#
aaronpk although registering a new syndication endpoint sounds like a good idea too :)
#
aaronpk i do think there's value in letting users choose what to push where rather than have everything happen automatically
#
aaronpk i treat twitter and facebook syndication very differently for example, choosing to post certain things to one or the other destination
#
Vendan I personally kind of like the idea of doing it as a micropub endpoint, and just having a setup for syndicating to a micropub endpoint
#
KevinMarks_ syndication via micropub makes sense
#
KevinMarks_ especially with feverdream
#
aaronpk i'm skeptical that micropub is the right tool for that
#
aaronpk but feel free to prove me wrong by building a prototype ;)
#
KevinMarks_ when I was trying quill editor to wordpress.com/tumblr/blogger having to reauth for each was rather annoying
#
KevinMarks_ not necessarily the only way, but micropub is a way
#
aaronpk i like the non-authenticated way that overloading webmention allows
#
KevinMarks_ right, I think there is space for both a pull and push model here
#
aaronpk it's an overloading of webmention the same way bridgy publish is, so we might want a different name for it
#
kylewm benwerd++ for closing a ton of issues in the last 12 hours
#
Loqi benwerd has 76 karma
#
aaronpk the pattern is source={my post url}&target={website of syndication target} and the response comes back with the URL of the post that is created
#
Vendan the one thing is that it's starting to be more like just generic push notification thing
#
KevinMarks_ you could do a less purist version of feverdream that used native auth ratehr than indieauth, and so required less config
#
kylewm I am 100% in favor of making indienews easier to post to, but I think I would like to read and/or help write a semi-weekly high-level summary of what's new in indieweb
#
aaronpk really? wow
#
aaronpk we had one guy doing that for a couple weeks in a row, but it was a lot of work
#
Vendan kylewm, I would be totally in favor of that
#
KevinMarks_ this ties in with gabe's challenge
#
KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/gaberivera/status/599337218100985856
#
@gaberivera Forgive me in advanced for hoisting the tired and tattered open standards flag, but such would be a good "response" to Instant Articles. (twitter.com/_/status/599337218100985856)
#
aaronpk i mean if people want to write semi-weekly summaries of indieweb news i am all for that! i'd suggest writing them on the wiki so that you can get help writing them
#
KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/gaberivera/status/599637616674394112
#
@gaberivera @kevinmarks We've needed to extract structure from unstructured html for a decade, so we have a pretty robust scraper (but RSS augments it). (twitter.com/_/status/599637616674394112)
#
kylewm I dunno, I was cuious if that's what benwerd had in mind with his suggestion
#
aaronpk me too
#
benwerd Kind of, yeah - I think the wiki is probably a good spot
#
benwerd The reason I brought it up is that I realized I wasn't up to date with everything
#
aaronpk here's one of the ones from last year http://indiewebcamp.com/2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb
#
benwerd and if I'm not up to date, it probably means other people might have a hard time too
#
aaronpk and http://indiewebcamp.com/2014-03-03-this-week-in-the-indieweb
#
aaronpk i think the unrealistic part of that attempt was trying to summarize IRC conversations
#
KevinMarks_ This Week In Indieweb sounds like a leo show
#
KevinMarks_ is this indietechmeme?
#
GWG I want to call a show, While You've Been Offline.
#
kylewm whoa yeah, summarizing IRC is Sisyphean
#
aaronpk if we made a wiki category for the "this week" posts I would gladly create an h-feed for it that could be subscribde to in readers
#
benwerd Yeah, I was more thinking like, "hey, this is a new tool that Aaron wrote which is pretty cool" and "we're changing to u-sibling-of from u-sibling, everyone update your links"
#
KevinMarks_ techmeme predates meme meaning 'cliched image with white type on"
#
aaronpk also screenshots!
#
kylewm image macro?
#
KevinMarks_ indiememe - summarizes the news with loqi-generated memes
#
aaronpk i would looove to do a podcast/youtube series but man do I not have the time for that
#
benwerd A short podcast would actually be neat.
#
aaronpk not it
#
benwerd wonders about aggregating various short audio updates from everyone's own sites into a single, (technically) coherent podcast stream
#
aaronpk hahaha
#
Loqi awesome
#
KevinMarks_ a podcast would be good if we commit to actually edit it rather than rambling on like the ones I do
#
kylewm honestly none of the podcasts i listen to are edited
#
aaronpk really? wow. I heavily edit when I do stuff like that
#
GWG KevinMarks_: Editing takes time.
#
aaronpk like to the point of clipping partial words
#
KevinMarks_ most I listen to are, as they come from BBC/NPR
#
GWG When I record anything, it is live to tape for that reason.
#
KevinMarks_ I know
#
kylewm well like Bad Voltage has segments that I think are recorded separately and edited together
#
kylewm but i don't think they cut out coughing or rambling or anything
#
aaronpk anyway, someone want to take a stab at summarizing this week? :D
#
KevinMarks_ if we want a good (cheap) audio editor to do this, my son Andrew is available
#
GWG I think our budget is free
#
KevinMarks_ yeah.
#
GWG I'd record the thing. I just don't know what I'd say that people would be interested in
snarfed joined the channel
#
@tilde_fortune "Since the code driving webmention.io is available at github, it may be fun to spin up and try to apply it here" http://tilde.club/~schussat/ (twitter.com/_/status/599661874964209664)
#
Vendan and BAM!
#
Vendan PuSH 0.4 is working on http://vendaria.net/
#
aaronpk nice!
#
vendaria.net edited /PubSubHubbub (+136) (view diff)
#
kylewm sigh, need SSL help
#
kylewm trying to run another site on the same server as kylewm.com... nginx doesn't have anything about ssl in the config for this particular domain, but it still redirects to https and says the certificate is only vlid for kylewm.com
#
kylewm why does it do that?
#
aaronpk you're trying to run another SSL site on the same server?
#
kylewm no, another plain site
#
aaronpk also check with curl -i instead of checking in the browser, because browsers tend to cache things and screw up debugging stuff like this
#
kylewm good idea, ty
#
kylewm ack, HTTP 301 Moved Permanently to https
#
Vendan do you have any kind of generic http to https in the nginix config?
#
aaronpk make sure your virtualhost for the new domain doesn't have a rewrite in it
#
Vendan I've seen that set up as just redirect everything instead of just redirect for the one site
#
aaronpk good call
#
Vendan woo! http://vendaria.net/post/9pK91Qr6i7D-Aw==
#
kylewm phew, main issue was a missing ; in my nginx config, thanks for the help guys
#
aaronpk heh yep that'd do it :P
#
aaronpk wow this is like a fancy pro version of ownyourgram http://www.instagrate.co.uk/
#
voxpelli regarding "this week in indieweb" – perhaps have people write a "my week in indieweb" and aggregate all those into a weekly?
#
voxpelli hard for a single person make a complete description of the entire community, easy for someone to describe their takeaways of the last week though
#
aaronpk that's why i was suggesting the wiki page, so everyone can add their own stuff
#
Loqi [mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/mediating-music posted 'It is late 2013. I Care if you Listen, a New York based blog about “new classical music, art and technology” that also has a magazine on the...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
#
Loqi [mention] https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/mediating-music posted 'It is late 2013. I Care if you Listen, a New York based blog about “new classical music, art and technology” that also has a magazine on the...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com
#
voxpelli aaronpk: I was thinking that people would post in on their own sites, perhaps mentioning a wiki-page or something to create an index of such posts
#
aaronpk oh sure, more like planet aggregation
#
voxpelli would be nice if one could aggregate all such posts and email out a weekly update as well
#
aaronpk i know i've heard other requests for email newsletters about indiewebcamp too
#
aaronpk it's funny, this is sounding like my https://donereports.com a little too
#
aaronpk i like the idea of incentivising people to addd PuSH support to their sites by having this thing subscribe to PuSH
#
aaronpk but the simplicity of mentioning a certain page to be added there is also nice
#
voxpelli mentioning a page feels kind of like the indieweb hashtag?
#
aaronpk heh yeah
fiatjaf, GWG, snarfed, j12t, KartikPrabhu and mlncn joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan posted 'This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf last weekend was a great success, with more...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (https://kylewm.com/2015/05/this-week-in-the-indieweb)
#
Loqi [mention] Kyle Mahan posted 'This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf last weekend was a great success, with more...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany#Blog_Posts (https://kylewm.com/2015/05/this-week-in-the-indieweb)
#
kylewm.com created /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+2137) "Created page with "<p class=""><i>This is an experiment in summarizing the events of the previous week</i><a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany"><br></a></p><p class=""><a href="http://indi..."" (view diff)
#
Vendan I like it, though part of that is cause you mentioned me :D
#
kylewm.com edited /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (-205) "convert HTML to MediaWiki via Pandoc" (view diff)
#
kylewm haha
#
Vendan though really, I think just that much is a good amount to shoot for, just a quick recap
#
kylewm now i want a micropub plugin for the wiki that pipes through Pandoc to convert HTML to Mediawiki
#
Loqi gives kylewm a micropub plugin for the wiki that pipes through Pandoc to convert HTML to Mediawiki
#
kylewm i want Loqi to hush
#
Vendan also, argh, I use pseudonyms a little to much, esp. as I have my own name as a domain
tantek joined the channel
#
kylewm Vendan: you can create a template expansion for yourself on the wiki if you want {{Vendan}} -> your full name. e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/Template:kylewm
j12t joined the channel
#
Vendan k, I'm actually running through the changes I need to change over from vendaria.net to andyleap.net
wolftune joined the channel
#
Vendan and there, andyleap.net is now up and running
#
aaronpk kylewm++ I totally missed the rel-urls thing until I read that summary :)
#
Loqi kylewm has 169 karma
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+13) "and micropub!" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2015-05-16-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+24) "add category" (view diff)
#
Vendan dude, aaronpk, you have some scary amazing graphics talent
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2014-03-03-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+24) "add category" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+24) "add category" (view diff)
#
aaronpk Vendan: thanks? are you talking about Quill? cause most of that was design borrowed from elsewhere ;)
#
Vendan more your homepage and https://switchboard.p3k.io/ and such
#
aaronpk ah! thx :)
#
aaronparecki.com created /Category:this-week (+92) "Created page with "Add <code><nowiki>[[Category:this-week]]</nowiki></code> to pages to have them show up here."" (view diff)
#
Vendan hey, is there anyway to shove stuff from vendaria.net to andyleap.net in the wiki, or am I just going to end up with a new "account" on there
#
aaronpk it'll be a new account
#
Vendan k, that's fine
#
aaronpk i think Bad Things™ might happen if I try to poke at the database to change it
#
Vendan lol, np
#
Vendan I just logged in as andyleap.net without issue
#
aaronpk kylewm: who runs https://mf2py.herokuapp.com and does it need to be updated with the latest mf2py changes?
tvn joined the channel
#
aaronpk cool
LCyrin joined the channel
#
Vendan I'll go through and rework references to vendaria.net in a little bit
#
tantek lol at "poke at the database"
snarfed and GWG joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /like (+92) "/* FB likes in allactivity */ link to public photo album that's referenced" (view diff)
#
tantek I really feel like I could benefit from pair-editing the /projects wiki page
#
tantek like in-person
#
aaronpk possibly an activity for writing hour before HWC?
#
aaronpk wow that page is intimidating
#
aaronpk here's another thought... drop the bulk of the content from that page, moving anything to the project-specific pages as needed
#
aaronpk then the /projects page becomes links to other pages, so it'd be much shorter and hopefully easier to maintain
#
KartikPrabhu asked a question in #microformats if anyone wants to answer :)
#
KartikPrabhu what is checkin?
#
Loqi A checkin is the action of checking into a location and sharing that information https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin
#
KartikPrabhu what is a collection?
#
Loqi A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
wilfredh and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
bret nice writeup on worse is better http://yosefk.com/blog/what-worse-is-better-vs-the-right-thing-is-really-about.html
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Teacup (-32) "fix dfn" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+165) "/* Clients */ add teacup, update quill" (view diff)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Germany/Demos (+125) (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+386) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
frzn joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+127) "/* Jeremy Keith */" (view diff)