#indiewebcamp 2015-05-18

2015-05-18 UTC
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eliemichel 2/close
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eliemichel oh, sry
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KevinMarks This tweet from benward and the following ones https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/599757727657660416
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@benward I’m genuinely really intrigued by Facebook’s Instant Articles tech: It’s HTML under the hood, but mapped to a native, non-CSS layout system. (twitter.com/_/status/599757727657660416)
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aaronpk wow i kind of want all my blog posts to look like this http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/14/opinion/14-in-flight-mark-vanhoenacker.html
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aaronpk medium articles print very nicely
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aaronpk pretty sure i'm gonna update my website layout to a single column, and just move all the sidebar stuff into the header and footer
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Vendan elf-pavlik, note, on an issue thing, I'd almost steer towards a more generic noun then issue, like request. You could have feature requests, bugfix requests, even patch requests(with code patch attached). Also opens it up to making requests on people instead of projects, which would be an interesting idea
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tantek !tell aaronpk of course you should *start* with a single-column layout for your website - that's responsive design 101, so it works well for narrow displays by default, and then progressively enhance wider displays/windows based on how well your specific content could take advantage of more efficient / user-friendly use of display width.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek good night #indiewebcamp
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Loqi night night
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KevinMarks___ Aaronpk that gradient is freaky admiring to actually read though, I have to scroll the text out of it
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KevinMarks___ That was distracting enough to make me lose interest in the article
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KevinMarks___ s/freaky admiring /really annoying /
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks___: agreed about the whole gradient thing
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@pubsubhubbub Good to see the #indiewebcamp folks adopt #PubSubHubbub with their own hubs! https://switchboard.p3k.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/600198041006641152)
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@FrauClodette Warum #InstantArticles was mit #Indieweb zu haben (und warum der FAZ-Artikel zu Instant Articles echt schlimm war): http://wirres.net/article/articleview/7669/1/6/ (twitter.com/_/status/600206732351143938)
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@Isarmatrose RT @FrauClodette: Warum #InstantArticles was mit #Indieweb zu haben (und warum der FAZ-Artikel zu Instant Articles echt schlimm war): http:… (twitter.com/_/status/600206972126900225)
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@cisene RT @pubsubhubbub: Good to see the #indiewebcamp folks adopt #PubSubHubbub with their own hubs! https://switchboard.p3k.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/600217864524664832)
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Loqi [bridgy] Marcel Weiß liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://www.facebook.com/548616784/posts/10153000128066785)
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@jailvestre @raphaelbastide working like a charm :) you should meet people from @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/600244393388441600)
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KartikPrabhu ok really confused about HTML tags now! This article manages to put a <div> (which includes marginalia/annotations) inside a <p> by making it a p>span>div but when I try to make p>div in my marginalia UI Firefox does not like it!
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KartikPrabhu http://qz.com/405498/the-case-for-drinking-whole-milk/
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: both <p> and <span> only permit phrasing content: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/span
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voxpelli So that article shouldn't validate :P
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Loqi [mention] http://www.octaeye.com/thoughts-on-blogging-engine/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Bridgy (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.octaeye.com/thoughts-on-blogging-engine/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (pingback)
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@superfeedr RT @pubsubhubbub: Good to see the #indiewebcamp folks adopt #PubSubHubbub with their own hubs! https://switchboard.p3k.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/600265203536789505)
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@elfpavlik RT @pubsubhubbub: Good to see the #indiewebcamp folks adopt #PubSubHubbub with their own hubs! https://switchboard.p3k.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/600266525132525569)
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@border_none @elfpavlik Very interesting! Unfortunately a little bit too short term, tho :( Thx anyway! +@DTNConf @decentcamp @GETDcent @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/600272392301191168)
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@atomicules All being well I'm now syndicating notes/tweets #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/600274729245761536)
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glennjones I am about to start a couple of days of updating microformats parsing test suite
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glennjones If you’re interested in getting something fixed or updated either have chat in microformats room irc://irc.freenode.net/microformats or post any issues with parsing test suite to https://github.com/microformats/tests and I will try address them as I work
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@rhiaro I spy @emax telling the world about rad social decentralisation & how silos are bad #indieweb http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/indieweb https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/600283715152048128/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/600283715152048128)
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Vendan ugh, styling a link so it looks like the surrounding text is just wrong
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GWG Good morning
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Vendan morning
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GWG Good morning, Vendan
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@emax RT @rhiaro: I spy @emax telling the world about rad social decentralisation & how silos are bad #indieweb http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/indieweb http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/600287205790261248)
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@OuiShareLabs @ouisharehello welcome to indieweb :-) https://stream.ouisharelabs.net/2015/ouisharehello-welcome-to-indieweb-- (twitter.com/_/status/600291590393995264)
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tantek looks like a fresh Known install!
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tantek with permashortlinks turned on - wonder if that's a default setting or if they had to turn them on in preferences?
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@apeacox RT @aaronpk: @iainspad indie web is not the same as ind.ie: https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#not-indieweb I also have a fun collection of other tweets: http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/600309444703080449)
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ben_thatmustbeme huh... i wonder if I may have to think about limiting the number of likes on a photo
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/5/17/4/
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Vendan have 5 and the rest hidden by js with a "show rest" or something?
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-18#t1431947071199 it isn't about "validating HTML" Firefox automatically puts my div outside a p but for that articles p>span>div it leaves it be!
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: one would have to dive into the HTML5 parsing spec I guess to figure out if that's actually correct or not, but it shouldn't be unexpected to get unexpected results with invalid markup imho :P
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: fair enough!
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Loqi slack/tantek: aaronpk any luck with Checkie and micropub?
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Loqi slack/tantek: Annoying aspect of both Foursquare and Checkie iOS apps - if they can't get location info (for whatever reason), they spin cursor for a long time and then fail.
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@shiflett I wrote a little bit about the Indie Web movement and IndieAuth. Hope you enjoy. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600348190689361920)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Checking in should not require device-level geo/location info.
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aaronpk i've noticed swarm seems to fall back to a local cache of nearby venues
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 30 minutes ago: of course you should *start* with a single-column layout for your website - that's responsive design 101, so it works well for narrow displays by default, and then progressively enhance wider displays/windows based on how well your specific content could take advantage of more efficient / user-friendly use of display width. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-17/line/1431927735770
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aaronpk at least i think that's what's happening
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aaronpk i'm not gonna make any progress on checkie or a web app until i can at least pesos my foursquare checkins
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aaronpk and i'm so stuck on making progress on my site right now
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Loqi slack/tantek: Hmm - backfilling doesn't see like a hard dependency.
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aaronpk backfilling isn't the blocker, just posting checkins at all
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Loqi slack/tantek: Or is it because we still haven't figured out clear markup for a /checkin post as compared to say a note and/or photo with a location?
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aaronpk that is part of it, but also my Great URL Refactoring of 2015™
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aaronpk (dropping the top-level post type from my URLs)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Though that (markup question) is a bit plumbing-centric. As I discovered with my errant checkin cross-posts, a better question to answer first is what does a plain text checkin look like?
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Loqi slack/tantek: Got it - I can see wanting to fix that tech debt rather than adding to it.
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aaronpk yes, that's the main reason. I don't want to add even more URLs i'm just going to have to rewrite later
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Loqi slack/tantek: Has anyone here thought or posted about (or examples of?) plain text checkins?
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aaronpk maybe that's how i should approach my checkin design, starting from scratch as plain text and working up from there
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aaronpk going back to the dodgeball days
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Vendan %s checked in at %s ?
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aaronpk %s is always me for my site ;)
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aaronpk and I don't use third-person language in my posts, so it would be more like "I'm at ___"
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Loqi slack/tantek: I like the idea of prototyping any new kind of post as a variant or specific grammar of a simple plain text /note (which everyone should support on their site anyway).
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aaronpk yeah i'm going to need a plaintext summary anyway as a fallback for readers
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Loqi slack/tantek: Vendan are posting /notes on your personal site?
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Vendan "I'm at %s" though I would also like the ability to say "I'll be at %s till %s"
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Vendan notes and articles, currently
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Vendan need to work on comment-presentation still
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KevinMarks I mentioned that my foursquare ical export got so big Google maps stopped working on it?
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Loqi slack/tantek: aaronpk more and more I'm convinced that the way to start building a new post type is a combination of notification first / text first design.
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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aaronpk progressive enhancement
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Loqi slack/tantek: So when elf asks about issues and markup, the right pushback is, try posting an issue as a plain text note in your own site and report back what you learn from that.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Before worrying about markup
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Loqi slack/tantek: Which of these is a better term for that anti pattern of asking markup first? Premature plumbing or premature architecture?
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Loqi slack/tantek: KevinMarks, could you document that in /Google_Maps#Issues? Include size of your 4sq iCal.
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aaronpk "premature architecture" because it avoids using an unnecessary metaphor to make the same point
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Loqi slack/tantek: (And was it gmaps or gCal?)
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aaronpk interestingly this applies not just to HTML markup, but also if you're making a JSON API like activitystreams
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Loqi slack/tantek: Except people making APIs (JSON or other) rarely care about presentation, whether plain text or richer.
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aaronpk at some point they have to turn a JSON object into plain text, so they have to care whether they like it or not
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Loqi slack/tantek: At least more people that are asking about HTML markup care at least somewhat about presentation and thus they can be reasoned with in terms of user-centric design.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Whereas API folks tend to prefer staying in abstract data model discussions.
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aaronpk text-first design makes a ton of sense actually, because ultimately we're talking about making things for people to talk to each other, and people talk in text
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Loqi slack/tantek: (Which are of course pointless without being grounded in specific presentation use-cases)
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Loqi slack/tantek: (Pointless data model discussions)
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aaronpk given a method of plain text, people can be awfully creative with it, making all sorts of crazy "post types" by using... English!
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@mwop RT @shiflett: I wrote a little bit about the Indie Web movement and IndieAuth. Hope you enjoy. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600352825927831554)
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Loqi slack/tantek: Text first design also has the advantage of providing a default speech/listening design
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Loqi slack/tantek: Though as you said aaronpk "English" tends to create a linguistic bias and may be misleading from an i18n perspective. Might help to collect multilingual plain text examples.
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aaronpk adding machine-readable markup can help with i18n, since a computer could generate a sentence in other languages once it knows the post type
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GWG I need some code examples of someone taking markup and turning it into reply-contexts, comments, etc. I'm looking for ideas on how to fix my presentation code. Preferably PHP. Anyone?
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Loqi slack/tantek: Right, that's a reasonably good working premise. We can also worry about i18n problems from text first design when we see / hear of one.
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GWG Not the actual MF2 parsing. I've separated that out.
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aaronpk GWG: https://github.com/indieweb/php-comments
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Vendan lol: http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
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Loqi slack/tantek: GWG do you have sketches or screenshots of what you want the reply context presentation to look like?
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Vendan "Good design is as little design as possible."
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Vendan - some German motherfucker
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aaronpk that library is meant to follow the /comments-presentation algorithm
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GWG slack/tantek: I'm already presenting it
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Loqi slack/tantek: GWG oh? Did you add examples from you / your site to /reply-context#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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Loqi slack/tantek: Including screenshots?
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GWG Right now, the display of a reply, a like, a favorite, Listening, Watching, etc. is all identical.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Vendan, many advantages to minimal design.
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GWG https://ps.w.org/indieweb-post-kinds/assets/screenshot-1.png?rev=1087739
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Loqi slack/tantek: GWG, huh? Those are post types you just mentioned. Not reply contexts.
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GWG slack/tantek: That is the problem. I use the same code to do everything.
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GWG I'm trying to rewrite it to separate it out so I can do more in-depth processing of types.
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GWG Right now, it is a hacky mess so every time I want to add functionality, it gets messier.
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aaronpk omg i feel a complete rewrite of my site coming on... :-/
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@Maulik32 RT @shiflett: I wrote a little bit about the Indie Web movement and IndieAuth. Hope you enjoy. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600355135777148928)
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GWG aaronpk: Why?
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GWG Same reason?
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GWG Too many parts are too tightly wound together?
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aaronpk kinda
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aaronpk between changing my URL structure and wanting to switch to a single-column layout, there's a lot about the guts of my site that make that hard
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GWG So, similar to my problem.
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GWG Not identical.
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GWG I'm in the process of abstracting my metadata retrieval code so the display code doesn't need to know where the data is coming from.
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Loqi slack/tantek: Aaronpk hopefully modularizing them so you can iterate more independently?
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aaronpk yeah hopefully
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GWG slack/tantek: What I am trying to do as well. I've separated retrieving the data from displaying it. But now I have to figure out how to separate display, because if I add post types, I need to be able to change the display more flexibly.
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Loqi slack/tantek: GWG, I still don't understand what you're doing. Do you examples permalinked from the /reply-context page?
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GWG No. But as I said, the issue is I treat a reply-context, a like, and a bookmark exactly the same, despite the fact they are 3 different things.
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GWG That is the change I need to make.
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GWG Basically, I need to redesign the code so I can easily treat them differently. Right now, it's messy to do that.
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shiflett slack/tantek: You're using Slack to post to IRC? I'd love to do the opposite. :-)
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aaronpk shiflett: slack has an official IRC gateway you can use
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shiflett Interesting.
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aaronpk this is a crazy irc/slack bridge I made
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aaronpk http://slack.indiewebcamp.com/
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Loqi slack/tantek: GWG, still doesn't make sense as a reply-context is not a type of post but rather just a piece of the presentation of a reply post.
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Loqi slack/tantek: I.e. The "one of these things is not like the others" problem.
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Vendan I can see it, cause it's like rendering the reply context as a subpost of the reply post
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Loqi slack/shiflett: irc/shiflett: ping
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shiflett slack/shiflett: pong
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Loqi slack/tantek: Vendan, presentationally it does not make sense, regardless of what sense it may make in any abstract data model ("subpost") sense
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GWG slack/tantek: I use the same presentation element for anything I'm responding to.
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kylewm (GWG: if you want to highlight people on slack, it's @tantek rather than slack/tantek)
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Loqi slack/kylewm: I think...
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kylewm testing @kylewm
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GWG kylewm: Good to know
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GWG @tantek The issue is I am not differentiating. I want to differentiate the presentation elements.
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shiflett You can also configure Slack to highlight your name sans @, which I would like to think tantek would do. :-)
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GWG I'm working on the design.
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GWG kylewm: I like your design for these elements, by the way
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kylewm this looks like an interesting silo quit https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/600364560529358848
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@steveklabnik Since everyone threw RSS away, I'm going to be using @buffer to post the things I write here. Still not reading, so: steve@steveklabnik.com (twitter.com/_/status/600364560529358848)
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aaronpk hah really?
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aaronpk haha he changed his twitter name to "410 Gone"
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snarfed tantek: re text checkins, here are mine. click dates for full presentation (links, pictures, etc): https://snarfed.org/?s=checked
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sparverius quick question about login flows for you guys: does this sound bad?
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sparverius complimentary to login/password is "log in with email", which sends a link to your email and when you click it, it logs you in on the session that instigated the process
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sparverius probably need a "clicked by accident button"
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KevinMarks_ indieauth supports email login
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aaronpk i should probably change that to emailing you a code instead of persona soon...
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KevinMarks_ slack has a flow rather like that sparverius
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tantek__ GWG, re: "not differentiating [on presentation]" - I suppose then I'm quite curious why you would implement something that has a different meaning but looks the same ("not differentiating").
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tantek__ kylewm, that's sort of a half silo quit - since Klabnik is still POSSEING (or maybe PESETASING?) from /Buffer to /Twitter
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tantek__ sparverius I think the one-time email login link is interesting and may work for those users who are always logged into their email client.
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GWG tantek__: Convenience?
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sparverius there's tons of services where i log in by resetting the password each time
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tantek__ otherwise, Persona ought to provide a better login flow than having to switch apps
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tantek__ GWG, convenience but for what outcome? what's your use-case of posting things that look the same but mean different things?
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Vendan tantek, In my case at least, the idea is to have the reply-context styled differently thanks to css
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@OnAdvertise 1p – Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth - http://blog.onadvertise.com/?p=59573 #advertising #sales #business #inc (twitter.com/_/status/600376050015670272)
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tantek___ that looks like spam
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tantek___ GWG, convenience for what? convenience is not an ends in itself, convenience is only an improvement towards or of a specific use-case
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@ProfitGoals 1p – Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth - http://blog.profitgoals.com/?p=81353 #profit #goals #lifegoals #protip (twitter.com/_/status/600376355214196736)
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aaronpk i'm gonna add those domains to the blacklist
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tantek___ how about the twitters too?
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GWG tantek___: I figured I'd get something working and fix it later?
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tantek___ GWG, good answer
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aaronpk blocked
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KevinMarks_ the slack login by email is meant as an affordance on mobile where getting an email and clicking a link is likely easier than typing in some long password
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@hackernewsfire Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600377796297433091)
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KevinMarks_ so it's like a gentler 'lost password' thing that doesn't force a pw reset
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aaronpk oh boy is that on hackernews?
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tantek___ nice, bring it.
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aaronpk it's in the "new" page. one or two more votes right now will bump it to the front page
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aaronpk https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
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aaronpk boom there it is
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@newsycbot Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (cmts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9566195) (twitter.com/_/status/600378754880446465)
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@TimHogenbirk Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379112474157057)
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@reclaimifytest Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379129263955969)
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@GandhiKathit Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379414354989056)
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@copilotasia Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379652964745216)
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@TechnologyNomad Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth | http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth #geeknews via ycombinator (twitter.com/_/status/600379659163930625)
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@VincAppman Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379710061813760)
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@_hnyc Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379758459932672)
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@hackernewsrss Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379820925689858)
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@swbreakingnews Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth #business #startups (twitter.com/_/status/600379885316603905)
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@pradeepbheron Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600379919386939392)
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KevinMarks_ be careful what you wish for
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aaronpk shiflett++
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Loqi shiflett has 3 karma
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@mindamedia Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth Trailing the updated info-technews on your palm! http://bit.ly/eponsmartlinks (twitter.com/_/status/600380014232739841)
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@retweetnewsorg Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600380019521810432)
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@OpenSourceHolog Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth Hacker News (twitter.com/_/status/600380022126411776)
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@HackerfallFeed Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth https://hackerfall.com/story/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600380382874329089)
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tantek oh hellow hackernews bots
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tantek none of those are actually useful information right
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tantek because they're not evidence of any human authoring right?
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tantek !block newsycbot
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Loqi Got it! There are now 31 spammers blacklisted
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aaronpk they appear to be autobots that post front-page articles
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tantek !block reclaimifytest
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Loqi Got it! There are now 32 spammers blacklisted
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tantek yeah, if your Twitter handle has 'bot' or 'test' - we should probably ignore
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@Track_Chat IT news: Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600380841840218113)
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tantek !block hackernewsrss
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tantek !block swbreakingnews
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aaronpk my twitter bot is called "spampk" :P
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tantek !block retweetnewsorg
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tantek lol ^^^ like that's a useful twitter name
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tantek !block HackerfallFeed
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tantek !block Track_Chat
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GWG tantek: Now I just have to figure out how to build the framework so I can extend it as I add presentation elements
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tantek GWG, I think we have different ideas about minimum viable presentation for new post types.
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tantek (which is fine, just interesting)
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shiflett Yikes, sorry all. I wrote that post, but I didn't post it to HN or anything.
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shiflett Just catching up on the whole Indie Web thing.
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tantek great post shiflett!
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tantek very clear, succinct, and to the point!
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shiflett Thanks. Just helping newbs like myself. Can't wait to dig in more. :-)
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tantek !block hackernewsfire
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tantek !block OnAdvertise
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tantek !block ProfitGoals
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tantek shiflett++
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Loqi shiflett has 4 karma
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@thetrendythings Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://thetrendythings.com/read/27697 (twitter.com/_/status/600383169049690113)
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@LanceCoyote Woop woop! Got Twitter syndication working (I hope)! #IndieWeb (http://lancey.space p11) (twitter.com/_/status/600383185260679168)
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LanceyWork :D
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aaronpk hooray!
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LanceyWork very flaky first draft implementation
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LanceyWork gotta work on getting twitterized versions of replies and @mentions
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LanceyWork but it's a start
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GWG tantek: How so?
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@HackAlertNews Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://hacker-bot.tumblr.com/post/119296616335/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth#_=_ #HB (twitter.com/_/status/600384106636169216)
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tantek GWG, look at how much time I spend designing / documenting /like#Brainstorming differentiated design (and details, e.g. collapsing in-stream on homepage) before implementing it on my site. Whereas as you admitted, to you, you spent (nearly?) zero time thinking/worrying about differentiated design/presentation of like posts before implementing them on your site.
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tantek neither approach is wrong, just different priorities for each of our personal sites
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tantek having at least "good enough" differentiated design I see as *essential* (hence minimum viable) for any new post types that I show on my site
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GWG tantek: I thought about it. I just postponed it.
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GWG I didn't implement check-ins or events for design reasons.
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tantek no you didn't postpone it - you *shipped* support for like posts while cutting differentiated presentation!
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GWG tantek: Point taken.
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tantek got it - so there are some things where you see differentiated design as essential
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GWG tantek: Yes.
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GWG tantek: But for Reply, Favorite, Like and Bookmark, they all had the same elements. So I didn't differentiate initially.
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+315) "subheads for personal site vs indieweb community tasks / working on" (view diff)
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GWG !tell tantek I also have the limitation of working with WordPress. I have to make sure it works with the system I'm on
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KevinMarks_ http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/potus-learning-to-posse
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Vendan heh
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@HNTweets Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth: http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth Comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9566195 (twitter.com/_/status/600390404769325057)
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@AxlHazarika #Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth #indie (twitter.com/_/status/600390452483723264)
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shiflett cringes.
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aaronpk hehe it's always nervewracking having your stuff on HN
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shiflett At least this is a topic sans haters (as far as I know).
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aaronpk yeah, no haters, just some "wtf-ers" who don't get it
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Vendan hey, second page already
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shiflett aaronpk: Do you not have a feed on your site? Just curious if I'm missing it or that's a deliberate decision.
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aaronpk my home page is my feed
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aaronpk and i have separate feeds for articles and notes http://aaronparecki.com/notes http://aaronparecki.com/articles
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aaronpk or did you mean feed file? ;)
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aaronpk what is a feed file?
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Loqi A feed file is a feed represented as a side file (a separate file, as opposed to as part of an existing HTML page, e.g https://indiewebcamp.com/feed_file
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shiflett Yeah, I mean something my homemade feed reader will be able to read.
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shiflett RSS, Atom, etc.
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aaronpk homemade feed reader? you should definitely add h-entry/h-feed to that then!
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Vendan update it to read microformats! :P
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aaronpk i dropped my atom feed because some people were complaining that images and things weren't looking right in it, and I didn't want to hassle with that when my HTML looked just fine
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KevinMarks_ "For a time, we had Microformats. Those times were simple, and good." http://builtvisible.com/implementing-json-ld-wordpress/?utm_source=loqi&utm_med…
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shiflett I'll look into h-entry and h-feed. Thanks. I've got a few microformats on my site. Whatever made sense 10 or so years ago.
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aaronpk utm_source=loqi wtf?!
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KevinMarks_ that's me editing utm's for accuracy
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aaronpk haha
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shiflett Vendan: Can you elaborate? I'm pretty new to a lot of this, so could use a link if there's more info I can read about.
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KevinMarks_ extra fun to do for SEOs
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Vendan http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
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Vendan what language is your reader made in?
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aaronpk shiflett: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed#How_To_Consume
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shiflett Vendan: PHP. It's here: http://shiflett.org/planet
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@progscrape Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600392954121953280)
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shiflett I made it way back when del.icio.us was cool, and I can just bookmark a URL and tag it "blogs", and my reader will incorporate it into that page automatically.
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Vendan https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2
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shiflett Since Pinboard uses the same API format, I haven't actually had to touch it in over a decade.
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Vendan parser built in php that can render out mf2 stuff
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Vendan err, parse out
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shiflett This will let me take a blog that's all Indie Webified, and integrate it into my stream of stuff?
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Vendan yeah
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Vendan for instance, look at http://pastebin.com/nCPk7iAy
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aaronpk oh neat! yeah you should be able to add microformats2 support to that pretty quickly!
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shiflett Thank you. I've got a lot of reading to do.
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Vendan that's the parsed version of http://aaronparecki.com/
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shiflett Oh, nice. I can work with this.
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aaronpk shiflett: for reference, i've been working on a php microformats reader: https://monocle.p3k.io/ https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle
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Vendan I'm the lone golang'er, it seems :(
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aaronpk Vendan: the first of many maybe?
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Vendan hopefully
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voxpelli Vendan: you're not – Will Norris is a go-langer as well :) see eg. https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang
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voxpelli and the way my colleague is pushing Go to me I will soon not have any other choice than add Go to my Node.js and PHP
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Vendan Do it!
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Vendan it's a good language
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voxpelli Vendan: all Will Norris' go-tools if you're interested: https://willnorris.com/go/
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Vendan yeah, I saw that
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KevinMarks_ it has a lot of attractive features; maybe I should try something in it
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Vendan only the one seems directly relevant to indieweb protocols
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Vendan would have been helpful to find it before building my own webmention library, but I also put handling webmentions into mine
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Vendan one of the big things I like about go is that it's quite lightweight and fast, but still has a decent stdlib
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voxpelli its typed and favors composition(?) – two other big pluses
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@atomicules Yo yo yo! What is up? This will be too, too, long. Now syndicating, i, tweets #indieweb (maybe) (twitter.com/_/status/600399835414560769)
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@atomicules Yo yo yo! What is up? This will be too, too, actually really really will be this time long. Now syndicating, i, tweets #indieweb (maybe) (twitter.com/_/status/600399836882546689)
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tantek.com created /2015-commitments (+35) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2014-in-summary (+24) "r" (view diff)
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shiflett aaronpk or Vendan: Would one of you be so kind as to offer some feedback on my first attempt at adding h-entry and h-feed stuff here: http://shiflett.org/planet
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shiflett This validator makes me think I have it all wrong: http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshiflett.org%2Fplanet
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aaronpk neat
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aaronpk looks like it's missing URL
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Vendan doesn't look horrible
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aaronpk to the original post
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Vendan but yeah, add a `class="u-url"` on the link to the post
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aaronpk and i think you want the photo (favicon) inside the h-card
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tantek shiflett - do you think you can make it to the IndieWeb meetup Wednesday in Manhattan?
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shiflett u-url being added now
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Loqi tantek: GWG left you a message 1 hour, 2 minutes ago: I also have the limitation of working with WordPress. I have to make sure it works with the system I'm on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-18/line/1431978265697
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tantek forgets if shiflett is still in NYC
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shiflett tantek: Oh, did I forget to tell you that after 12 years in Brooklyn, I moved to Boulder. :-)
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shiflett Just moved.
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shiflett Hence the last BB, etc.
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tantek ah was wondering when that was happening
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tantek ok then :)
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shiflett I wish I could. This whole movement reignites my interest in the Web.
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tantek perhaps meetups in Boulder then :)
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shiflett Yeah.
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Vendan shiflett, I'd move the `class="p-author h-card"` to the <h4 class="author">
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shiflett Okay, progress. http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshiflett.org%2Fplanet
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aaronpk sweet!
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aaronpk goes to add that to his reader
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Vendan also, you can paste your source into something like http://mf2.vendaria.net/ to get the full parsed output
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shiflett Pro tip. Thank you.
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shiflett Bookmarking that.
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aaronpk yep I always use http://pin13.net/mf2/
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KevinMarks_ and I use unmung.com ;)
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shiflett hehe
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KevinMarks_ also, shiflett, if you are going to try an h-feed h-entry parser, unmung,com turns rss/atom etc into h-feed
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aaronpk shiflett: next up: add pubsubhubbub support so readers get realtime updates as things are added :) https://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push
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shiflett http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fshiflett.org%2Ffeeds%2Fblog
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shiflett Oh yeah, I should mark my own blog up with h-feed et al.
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KartikPrabhu shiflett: here is a list of mf2 parsers: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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shiflett Thanks.
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shiflett ramsey: Oh, hi.
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ramsey :-)
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shiflett Have you marked up your blog with h-entry, h-feed, etc.? That's my next task, it seems.
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Vendan hrm, whatever parser pin13 is using seems to be doing the implied name property wrong
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KevinMarks_ got a testcase? pin13 is the php code
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Vendan it's pulling an implied name, possibly from the textcontent of the node, but implied name property should be checking img alt attribute first
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Vendan <h4 class="h-card"><img src="/img/icon_favicon.gif" alt="" class="u-photo"/><a href="http://snailinaturtleneck.com/blog/" title="Kristina Chodorow" rel="external">Kristina Chodorow</a></h4>
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Vendan alt="" should mean empty or no implied name
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ramsey shiflett: yep. Already done that. :-) I've left my rel="me" as links in the head, though (hidden), since I don't want to put all those links on my index page (they're all on my about me page).
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Vendan based off of http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-faq, "Yes, the assumption is that the inclusion of an empty attribute value was a deliberate action by the author."
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shiflett ramsey: Yeah, I'm using link tags for those, too, even though tantek told me it's not preferred. I didn't already have visible links that were good candidates.
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KevinMarks_ that would be true if the p-name was on the img
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KevinMarks_ <h4 class="h-card"><img class="p-name" src="/img/icon_favicon.gif" alt="" class="u-photo"/><a href="http://snailinaturtleneck.com/blog/" title="Kristina Chodorow" rel="external">Kristina Chodorow</a></h4>
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Vendan then there needs to be a distinction written about that in the parsing spec
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ramsey shiflett: according to the wiki, there has been discussion about some contextual way to link your index to your about to note that it's your real "me" page, but I don't think there's been any updates on that thinking in a while
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KevinMarks_ but the implied name of the h-Card is the whole h4 tag
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Vendan but the img tag matches .h-x>img:only-child[alt]:not[.h-*]
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Vendan which means the h-cards implied name is the img alt
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KevinMarks_ not sure how you're getting that, but the way he php and python ones behave seems like expected behaviour to me
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shiflett Should I add p-name to that image? FYI, it's their favicon (if they have one), so meant to be a representative image of the blog, not the person.
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Vendan then the parsing spec is wrong
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KevinMarks_ right, but the h-card isn't on the img
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KevinMarks_ no, the way implied name is working is good
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KevinMarks_ you could add p-name to the <a tag
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Vendan but that's not the implied name according to the parsing spec
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KevinMarks_ that img isn't the only child
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Vendan crap, your right
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Vendan I was thinking :only-of-type
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Vendan ok, fixed my code
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KevinMarks_ are you doing implied name?
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Vendan I had implied name parsing wrong
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KevinMarks_ http://mf2.vendaria.net isn't showing implied names
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Vendan give it a minute :(
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Vendan wercker is being really slow
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KevinMarks_ haha
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aaronpk it's gonna be great to have this test suite running
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Vendan implemented it on a whim, going to replace it with docker building stuff on the server at some point
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KevinMarks_ wonder if we should do an equivalent of http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/
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aaronpk oh yeah good call
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aaronpk would be easy since all the implementations have a web API for it, can just hit that
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KevinMarks_ right, installing parsers in n languages is not trivial
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Vendan well, except for golang :P
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Vendan ok, implied name is working now
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kylewm lol, right, just go to your .bashrc, add GOPATH to ~/go
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KevinMarks_ yep
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Vendan don't even need that
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KevinMarks_ Vendan++
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Loqi Vendan has 13 karma
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Vendan a golang binary just needs a few standard libraries, basically just libc and libpthread
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Vendan and if I wanted to, I could staticly link it so all you'd need is the right arch and system calls
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aaronpk oh yeah once it's compiled you just run the binary, it's great
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aaronpk no idea what it takes to set up the dev environment tho
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@davideriksson RT @shiflett: I wrote a little bit about the Indie Web movement and IndieAuth. Hope you enjoy. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/600412806635216896)
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Vendan wget https://storage.googleapis.com/golang/go1.4.2.linux-amd64.tar.gz, tar -xf go1.4.2.linux-amd64.tar.gz -C /usr/local, export GOPATH=~/go, go get github.com/andyleap/microformats/...
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shiflett Oh look, a real human on Twitter.
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Vendan oh, wait, I forgot you need to change your path a little
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Vendan but that's all you'd need to compile my microformats parser
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kylewm hopes Vendan sees the irony of previous statement
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Vendan hey, I never said that it's the simpliest dev env to set up, I just said it's dirt simple to install my parser
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Vendan I suppose I should start putting compiled versions up, cause then it's just wget parser; ./parser
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KevinMarks_ well, we'd need to recompile for macos or whatever
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KevinMarks_ looks at https://cloud.google.com/appengine/downloads#Google_App_Engine_SDK_for_Go
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@Leon1969 Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth: http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/600414471459184640)
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Vendan well, I can cross compile for darwin and windows on a linux box, so that's not really an issue
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Vendan well, I just got the go ahead to hold a indiewebcamp remote party if anyone is in the central NC region
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bret Vendan: just ran `go get github.com/andyleap/microformats`
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Vendan did it die horribly?
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bret no i don't think so
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Vendan inside gomf there's some stuff for a command line parser, it pulls from a url you pass it on the command line. gomfweb is a web app, runs on port 4001? i think
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Vendan Need to do some cli flags for them
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bret this is fancier go that I know how to write
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bret :) ill try to read through it
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Vendan lol, let me know if you need any pointers or anything
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bret protobuffers are the new json
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bret ;0
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Vendan ugh, no, at least json is human readable
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Loqi slack/snarfed: Vendan: protobufs have a text format that's basically the same as json: <https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/overview#whynotxml>. (search for "text format")
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Vendan @snarfed, interesting, but json also has a binary version optimized for over the wire http://msgpack.org/
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Loqi slack/snarfed: Vendan: great!
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KevinMarks hm https://medium.com/@e/highlights-have-come-to-the-medium-app-this-is-going-to-be-big-822960e8653d
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KevinMarks another marker for fragmention/marginalia functionality (a highlight that isn't a marginal comment?)