#indiewebcamp 2015-05-20

2015-05-20 UTC
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+398) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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GWG Evening all
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@notoralhistory .@tumblr Tumblr, any news on how users can export their own tumblr content? It's been asked about for over a yr now... Thanks! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/600816100339818496)
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GWG I think I may have figured it out
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Vendan urgh, I want a simple, low markup data serialization language that can be easily written by a human
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Loqi gives Vendan a simple
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Vendan and yaml's out cause they forbid tabs, and I forbid spacing for indention
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Vendan woo, my microformats parser is now normalizing urls
nloadholtes, KevinMarks__, snarfed, KevinMarks_, gRegorLove, afrogeek and yakker joined the channel
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@thatvirtualboy Finally got around to setting up my @ownCloud server on a Linux Mint VM #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/600878274735136768)
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@dckc finally moved http://www.madmode.com to github pages. Transparently, of course, since I have my own domain name. https://indiewebcamp.com/personal-domain (twitter.com/_/status/600880084157734915)
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@posthuman Crypto + @indiewebcamp kids. There's a reason he's The Only @t And he's far from alone. Roll your own or be rolled. https://twitter.com/thebafflermag/status/598800959377117185 (twitter.com/_/status/600880705200123904)
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GWG Staring at code isn't helping. Will have to pick up tomorrow.
nloadholtes, loic_m, Deledrius_, j12t, glennjones, sanduhrs and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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KevinMarks__ I know that feeling. Base64 decode is failing for me on python appengine
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KevinMarks__ Not sure if this is some weird 0 in a cstring problem
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KartikPrabhu oh that sucks! i was planning to use Quill's editor with local saving of photos by decoding the base64 images
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KevinMarks__ Is there some
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KevinMarks__ Known problem here?
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KevinMarks__ I am doing some devious crap sending a png in a textarea because sending images is hard
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acegiak KevinMarks__: this is the kind of wild hackery that makes my eyes go wide with excitement
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acegiak I like the person that goes "well it's not SUPPOSED to solve my problem but it CAN"
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__: haven't investigated base64 deconding yet so was curious
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KartikPrabhu on another note: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/600918416954773504
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@kartik_prabhu No, @Slate @Livefyre . Have you heard of #progressiveenhancement ? https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/600918416954773504/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/600918416954773504)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__: haven't investigated base64 deconding yet so was curious
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KartikPrabhu also somehow finally Bridgy publish stopped adding original URL when I told it not to
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acegiak GWG: pull request on your desk
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KevinMarks__ One of those annoying appengine things where it works locally and not on the server
friedcell, petermolnar, marjolein, squeakytoy, evalica1, KevinMarks_, Lancey_, Sebastien-L, sanduhrs1 and interactivist joined the channel
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@4gsmarttv RT @jancborchardt: Good first day of #IndieWebCamp Berlin yesterday! See you today as well, 2PM at @agoracollective https://twitter.com/jancborchardt/status/483186406303756288/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/600940285649096704)
eschnou, friedcell, fkooman, Rev_Illo, e-lima, stream7, iandevlin, KevinMarks__, torrorist1, KevinMarks_, LanceyWork, frzn, torrorist, pfefferle and mlncn joined the channel
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GWG Morning all
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Vendan morning
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LanceyWork good morning
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GWG Everyone working on interesting things?
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LanceyWork right now i'm breaking my website to find bugs
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GWG Fun
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Loqi [mention] Amy posted 'Generating an ActivityStream Part one: posts-for-all-the-things If you've been paying attention to me IRL or in IRC lately, you'll hav...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (http://blog.rhiaro.co.uk/generating)
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zachdonovan good morning!
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LanceyWork good morning, zachdonovan
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GWG zachdonovan: I have an idea.
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GWG Would you want to do a remote IWC to coincide with the one in Portland?
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Vendan I'm hosting a remote IWC in NC :D
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GWG Vendan: Did you add it to the wiki?
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andyleap.net edited /2015 (+54) "/* Remote IndieWebCamp Parties */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan GWG: sounds cool!
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GWG zachdonovan: Is your building available? Unlike HWC, IWC is a whole weekend affair.
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andyleap.net edited /User:Andyleap.net (+103) (view diff)
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GWG I can also check with Jeremy Zilar, who hosted last time.
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zachdonovan hmm, let me look at the dates
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GWG It is 7/11-7/12
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zachdonovan I should probably not commit my space to that - we may be moving.
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GWG Let me check with Jeremy then. If not, I'll start looking.
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Vendan I've gotten permission from the hackerspace I'm a part of to open the doors for the weekend
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GWG I was going to try for PDX, but I just planned my vacation...and I'm experiencing financial shell shock
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zachdonovan GWG: sounds good. If he's not available, I can poke around, too.
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GWG zachdonovan: Will you be able to attend?
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zachdonovan GWG: yes!
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GWG I think bear put himself down as interested
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GWG So, if we get a venue now, we could get at least 5 people or more.
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GWG tantek: You excited about tonight?
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GWG We have a 250% increase over last time
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tantek WOO HOOO!!!
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tantek :D
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tantek GWG, I'm also inviting the entire CSS Working Group
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GWG tantek: I've decided to try to get IWC in NYC. I don't think I can get to PDX this year.
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GWG I'm going to see if Jeremy Zilar can offer a venue. If not, I forget who at IWC Cambridge said they might refer me to a college in NYC. I think it was one of the people from Fredericksburg
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tantek GWG - perhaps try to FB friend all the people you met at /2015/Cambridge and then invite them to the next IWC NYC?
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tantek er, next HWC NYC :)
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GWG tantek: It would be IWC 2015 in NYC, not IWC NYC 2015.
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tantek got it
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GWG But, either way...I wanted to discuss with zachdonovan tonight if we wanted to keep NYC monthly for now or not.
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GWG We may feel flush with success over our 5 attendees and want to keep them
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KevinMarks_ @rhiaro deleting a post could create a tombstone post (with a deleted date)
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: the problem is more to do with how to propagate the delete out to subscribers
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tantek aaronpk - just another PuSH right?
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aaronpk probably
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tantek rhiaro: posts have permalinks on the web. activities don't. that makes posts the clear winner IMO
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tantek nevermind the simpler data model
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tantek this is not true: "the data they contain are basically the same."
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tantek activities are a needlessly more complex way of what posts represent
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tantek what are activities?
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Loqi activities are the content unit of ActivityStreams https://indiewebcamp.com/activities
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tantek wow I did that back in 2012
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kylewm KevinMarks_: are you planning on going to HWC tonight? I just found out I don't think I can make it
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+28) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: bummer - definitely get a co-organizer to take over for yoU!
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tantek KevinMarks or benwerd perhaps
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aaronpk i think i'm going to do HWC PDX as a hack night tonight
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tantek aaronpk - cool - note that on the wiki page
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tantek.com edited /activities (+371) "expand dfn see also" (view diff)
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tantek rhiaro: re: "do I care if I'm creating and pushing around posts, or activities? Probably not." - no, you do care, because activities are a more complex model that takes more work to understand, implement, and test, as compared to posts. You should care that the activities model wastes your time for no benefit.
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tantek re: "I just want to do stuff, and have people see it." YES. This.
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tantek rhiaro: s/inherant/inherent
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aaronpk haha this is like paragraph-level comments via irc
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Loqi ahaha
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tantek rhiaro: I think the big thing you're missing is plain text only fallbacks for all posts
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tantek once you implement those, it's obvious that it's all posts, especially from a fallback perspective, and there are no empty nodes or any other such semantic nonsense
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tantek in general the MVP (minimum viable post) strategy of plain text design first appears to simplify a lot of the concepts here, and in particular make it obvious that activities were always a poor abstraction to begin with.
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aaronpk hmm that gives me an idea
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aaronpk also urrrghhhh i need a better interface for posting events
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tantek no matter what the post is, whether a /listen a /consume etc.
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rhiaro tantek: there's not reason for activities not to have permalinks
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tantek there's ALWAYS a need for plain text design fallback
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tantek rhiaro: in that case they're just posts
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rhiaro EXACTLY
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tantek and there was never a need for second name
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tantek for the same thing
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rhiaro this is literally my point
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tantek this kind of architecture / terminology abstraction typically happens when people lead with specs, without selfdogfooding with implementations on their own sites
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tantek so I blame ALL of the ActivityStreams authors/editors for not selfdogfooding soon enough and thus realizing the activities model was not only unnecessary, but crap :P
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tantek don't trust any specs that the authors/editors are not selfdogfooding on their own site
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tantek rhiaro: "so the URI of the deleted post is retained with a deletion date attached, but all other properties deleted" - simple, capture that in the dt-updated in the h-entry on that 410 :)
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tantek (since there's not much updating you can do *after* a delete, the dt-updated returned MUST represent when the post was deleted. boom. :) )
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tantek congrats rhiaro, you just came up with the first good use-case to always have tombstone /deleted posts - to represent when it was deleted.
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tantek it just so happens there was an obvious solution with the use of existing h-entry / dt-updated
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+44) "update pdx info as a hack night!" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa what happened here http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/hwc-20150520-085202.png
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tantek yup - already pinged GWG about that many days (week+ ? ) ago
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GWG tantek: Did you?
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GWG I must have missed it
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GWG There
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GWG I have a parsing question. If I put a u-in-reply-to or p-in-reply-to into my e-content, the parser will see it as part of the e-content and part of the in-reply-to property...
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GWG I'm guessing that is unavoidable.
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GWG Still trying to solve a usability problem
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tantek yes that's fine
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tantek it will still show up as a property on the object
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rhiaro tantek: any thoughts on follow posts for readers posting new follows via micropub?
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GWG But in the parser, the content property isn't readable.
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GWG This is a parsing question
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GWG If the property is inside the e-content, shouldn't it strip the property from the e-content field?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: the u-in-reply-to will also show up in th h-entry property
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KartikPrabhu no it should not strip
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GWG KartikPrabhu: That I know. I'm saying it also shows the markup in the content field itself when parsing the elements.
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KartikPrabhu yes. why is that a problem?
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KartikPrabhu e-parsing should not remove any markup from inside the e-* element
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tantek rhiaro: but first what do you think of the how to publish deleted datetime? (see above)
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I think I need an example
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rhiaro tantek: yeah that makes sense. Deleting and leaving a shell feels a lot like updating
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aaronpk it's an update where you blank out all the properties :)
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rhiaro though the intent is different, and there's some debate to be had about whether, if you're intending to delete a post, you want to remove all evidence of it ever having existed
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rhiaro not that you can really do that on the web
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rhiaro but you can at least do it on your own server
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GWG The parser at pin13 actually is stripping it.
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GWG What other parsing tests are there available?
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GWG I think that uses php-mf2
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KartikPrabhu http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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tantek rhiaro: that's up to you
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tantek on your site - how much information do you want to publish about/in your /deleted post
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rhiaro tantek, aaronpk: I'll probably update my post to use dt-updated and lose the u-delete-of stuff
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tantek you could even ACL it - and maybe only provide h-entry / dt-updated info for /deleted posts to those that have signed in with IndieAuth or to a whitelist OR to only yourself
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rhiaro so it's implementation-dependant, I mean plumbing, and needn't be spec'd
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tantek no I was speaking from user-experience perspective
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tantek you said you wanted to keep track (see?) when you deleted a post
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tantek so I suggested a possible solution for that that would publicly say so
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tantek then I realized maybe you meant ONLY you could see when you deleted a post
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tantek so I suggested a possible solution for that
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GWG I think I found the problem. It isn't in the parsing.
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GWG Another WordPress pecularity
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GWG I can fix it.
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153245284575781 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153194830631745 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10152681837126819 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153857741694046 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10205813191557269 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10106707760326354 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10100784557906806 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10101695964056392 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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tantek whoa
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10101673743880643 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10152751129607955 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10152783886462979 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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tantek who uncorked bridgy?
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153984832980029 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] Julie Logan RSVPed maybe to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10102942556804405)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153326055006435 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10204388580739522 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#612702783743 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk wow
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10100460040092772 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] Lea Verou RSVPed maybe to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10153101399756192)
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Loqi [bridgy] Sean Jackson RSVPed no to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10102429799454368)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10152899178221998 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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tantek well that's it - going out to get lunch
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rhiaro tantek: but yeah, making deletion info up to the author I agree with
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tantek rhiaro: want to capture whatever you thought I said made sense onto /deleted#Brainstorming ?
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kylewm hmm, did bridgy just get approved for user_events!?
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kylewm that. is. hilarious. I found out via IRC before facebook emailed me!
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Loqi slack/kylewm: <@U03QSRDJ9>
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Loqi slack/kylewm: oops
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Loqi slack/kylewm: @kevinmark can you cover for me at HWC tonight? something came up and I don't think I can make it :confused:
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Loqi slack/kylewm: wow, how'd I screw that up twice
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Loqi slack/kylewm: <@U03QSRDJ9>: can you cover for me at HWC tonight? something came up and I don't think I can make it :confused:
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aaronpk i still don't get why slack does that
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snarfed kylewm++ 1000x for getting a bunch of new FB permissions approved for bridgy!
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Loqi kylewm has 171 karma
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/407 , https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/41
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snarfed …it can now continue to do everything it already did before the 2.x api apocalypse :|
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KevinMarks___ Yes, I can probably get there for 5:30 or so - I'm on TWiG this afternoon
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KevinMarks___ So send me things to talk about
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aaronpk KevinMarks___: did you already talk about quill's new editor?
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KevinMarks___ I'm gong to mention fever dream and quills new editor, yes
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KevinMarks___ Especially with Jeff there
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snarfed KevinMarks: i assume complaining about FB's capricious API changes is boring at this point :P
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@superfeedr Finding #webmentions with our @superfeedr tracking feeds has never been easier! http://blog.superfeedr.com/subscribe-backlinks/?utm_content=bufferb781b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/601074661108113408)
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KevinMarks___ I can do it to reinforce the point
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snarfed eh no need
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tantek indeed
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tantek plenty of others complain in press/media about the negatives of silos
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tantek let's focus our limited press/media time on the positives of indieweb, how we're solving those problems and providing alternatives
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GWG KevinMarks___: Going to tell them about HWC NYC for me?
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tantek e.g. KevinMarks you can refer to snowflake APIs
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tantek GWG, give him a URL to promote :)
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
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GWG KevinMarks___: This will work. We're looking to build it. Also a more permanent venue if anyone would like to volunteer one.
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snarfed the superfeedr service mentioned in that tweet is pretty cool. http://blog.superfeedr.com/subscribe-backlinks/
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snarfed next step: build a third party webmention service that subscribes to the firehose and tries to send webmentions for all links on all sites, everywhere :P
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tantek GWG, yes he should promote SF, PDX, NYC
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GWG KevinMarks___: You think you can get Jeff Jarvis to loan us a classroom at CUNY School of Journalism?
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snarfed (i don't think they actually expose a firehose, but we could at least make one that's opt in per site)
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tantek GWG, oh I should invite him on FB
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tantek huh apparently we were not FB friends - so that's been requested at least
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tantek nice thing with Indie Events, you don't have to be "friends" (whatever that means in IndieWeb) to send people an /invitation to your /event
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10203255327934024 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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bret.io edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (-13) (view diff)
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aaronpk bret: aw
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GWG Will definitely be there at 7:30. 6:30 is still...iffy. It depends on whether I can slip away
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tantek GWG, I will attempt to make it there at 18:30 or nearby if they don't have wifi
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GWG It says there is wifi.
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GWG But saying and meaning...
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aaronpk twitter just added a little "follow" button next to reply, retwee, favorite
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tantek GWG, I am hopeful
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tantek aaronpk in what context? I feel like I've seen that before
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GWG I'll bring my Karma Hotspot
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aaronpk viewing any tweet
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GWG If it ever arrives
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aaronpk maybe i just never noticed it, but i do often look at tweets from people i don't follow
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tantek tweet permalinks? yes I've seen that for a while
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aaronpk in stream views too
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tantek waits for rhiaro to update /deleted and continues to read her post
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tantek rhiaro: this is reasonable plain text first design "I deleted a post. 15th May 2015 13:06 Amy Guy" - well done.
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tantek that's worth capturing in /deleted#Brainstorming as well - as plain text first design
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tantek and as you figured out - u-deleted-of is not needed
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KevinMarks_ There is a case for replacing the deleted post with a tombstone
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GWG I'm more the sort for the funny note.
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KevinMarks_ As that way things that update with diffs will not keep caching the old one
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GWG "There used to be something here...there isn't anymore. Deal with it."
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tantek KevinMarks: a /deleted post is a tombstone
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tantek I think you missed that at the start of this discussion
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tantek The point is that even 410 returns still can return an HTTP body, we're only discussing what goes into that body - that's a tombstone
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KevinMarks_ Ah got it
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KevinMarks_ I thought you were discussing amy's suggestion of deletion as activity
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tantek nah that was rejected even earlier - read back even further
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aaronpk IMO the body should actually contain an HTML h-entry with all the properties blanked out except e-content or p-summary that has the fallback text. that way consumers that don't recognize the 410 would at least treat it as an "update" and replace the content
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tantek so far I haven't seen an activity that I can't redesign as a simpler post + maybe some HTTP re-use.
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tantek aaronpk - yes, see the plain text design noted above, and when that gets captured on the wiki, I'll happily add a marked up version after that
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aaronpk cool
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tantek will wait for rhiaro to first capture all this on /deleted before answering her question about follow post equivalent for activity etc.
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KevinMarks_ I think we're agreeing
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KevinMarks maybe I should quit yak-shaving in trying to mung svg into png in the browser and base64 decode on the server, but it is annoying
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tantek rhiaro: if activities are there "To propagate changes through a network. To tell people that somebody did something." then they are already handled by Webmention + PuSH
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tantek then the somethings are retrieved from post permalinks
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aaronpk there are several cases that doesn't work
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tantek rhiaro: s/experimantal/experimental
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tantek aaronpk: oh?
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tantek I have yet to see one - per the assertion above
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aaronpk which is what i found trying to document how to do these flows
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tantek per "so far I haven't seen an activity that I can't redesign as a simpler post + maybe some HTTP re-use."
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aaronpk the problem is you need something in addition to the post-date-chronological ordering
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tantek is done re-reading http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/generating
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aaronpk otherwise updates or deletes of older things won't get propagated
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tantek aaronpk: for what context of use-case?
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aaronpk easy example is right now i delete a post that isn't on my home page
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tantek start with the use-case rather than strawmanning some plumbing
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aaronpk your reader isn't going to ever be able to find that i deleted it
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tantek aaronpk: really? why not include most recent dt-updated posts on your home page instead of dt-published? or union of?
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aaronpk because that's not what i want my home page to look like
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tantek thinks he remembers seeing people have boxes on their home pages of "recently updated posts"
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aaronpk i'm considering putting that kind of stuff in a little sidebar though
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tantek lol
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tantek concept jinx :)
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tantek yes, putting that kind of stuff in a little sidebar box will solve your use-case
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aaronpk that sidebar is what i'm calling my "activity stream" :)
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aaronpk or changelog
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KevinMarks changelog is what activity stream was modelling yes
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tantek that framing seems duplicatively overlapping with your home page stream
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KevinMarks which is why it has more than just the post model
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aaronpk here's where it gets confusing though... i have posts not on my home page, like /metrics
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tantek whereas the tighter framing of "recently updated posts" would be both less noisy, and provide only the essential / minimum required to solve the problem you said about posts that scroll off the home page but you update/delete
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KevinMarks "news feed" on fb was a public changelog, filtered by those you are friends with
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aaronpk and if i add/delete/update things there, i certainly don't want those udpates on my home page because the posts aren't even on my home page
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tantek aaronpk: sure, as does Known by default
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tantek KevinMarks: no "news feed" was not a changelog - it omitted lots of kinds of changes
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KevinMarks but it had more than explicit posts, whcih is the point
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tantek no that's not the point
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tantek explicit vs passive posts are not the entirety of a change log
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/794975733919601#10152759655346905 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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cweiske eeks. aaronpk: monocle auto-played a video from your feed
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aaronpk ha!
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cweiske or rather my browser
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cweiske this is unfortunate
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aaronpk yes i think i need to do some html sanitization in monocle
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cweiske it's https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/12/2/beyondtellerrand
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cweiske which has autoplay on I suppose
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aaronpk yeah i have autoplay on the permalinks but not in the stream view
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aaronpk and monocle fetches the permalink version
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cweiske aaronpk, another problem with monocle: http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-05-20%20monocle%20bug.png
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aaronpk whoa
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cweiske the permalink looks normal; http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/11/1/timezones
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aaronpk that's a different permalink
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kylewm I *think* that was a mistake that was deleted
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aaronpk oh you're totally right
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aaronpk that was the first one i posted before my micropub endpoint allowed me to post HTML (it was assuming all input was plaintext before)
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cweiske but when I scroll down to the permalink after the gibberish, it's that one
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aaronpk well that's a different problem then :)
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kylewm huh yeah, I don't have the updated permalink in woodwind
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kylewm only the garbled one
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aaronpk oh i see...
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aaronpk this was my site's fault
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aaronpk i didn't properly tombstone that delete
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aaronpk so when I posted about timezones, it re-used the same URL as the deleted post
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aaronpk well, not quite the same URL... old URL was https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/11/1/ and the new one is https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/11/1/timezones but now the old is a 301 to the new one
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aaronpk which means... monocle still thinks they are different posts so it didn't get treated as an update
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kylewm I have a similar but different problem with KartikPrabhu's images in Woodwind https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/kartik-escaped-html.png
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kylewm I don't think the php mf2 parser has this issue
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@ajspadial Pa afuxir de los #silos de la rede, tengo que entamar la mio alternativa: ¿una #varayerba, una #tenada o un #horru? Paso a paso #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601115296062136320)
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kylewm this is the permalink https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/slate-comments-fail
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tantek aaronpk, I think adactio has an opinion on autoplay ;)
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk well for the record, the reason is this: you're on aaronparecki.com and see the still frame with the "play button" overlay, you click it, it takes you to the permalink and the video plays
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aaronpk that was easier than fiddling with JS to make the image swap out with the video when clicked
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KevinMarks isn't that in the video tag?
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KevinMarks poster?
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aaronpk i was concerned about slowing browsers down by having a bunch of video tags on list views. if that isn't something i should worry about then i could probably switch it
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KevinMarks if you turn off preload it's OK
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cweiske yep
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KevinMarks leo pushing mobilepub
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kylewm dang, did Leo just say he's using ben_thatmustbeme's android app?
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kylewm and OwnYourGram
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aaronpk checks server logs to make sure the server stays up :)
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KevinMarks leo is a big known fan
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KevinMarks apparently mobilepub and known don't work with audio
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KevinMarks :(
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aaronpk i coulda sworn Known did
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KevinMarks kylewm: did you get silo.pub for feverdream?
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KevinMarks or should I link https://feverdream.herokuapp.com/
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aaronpk quick! register silo.pub!
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KevinMarks I can do it if kyle is busy
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kylewm Ha, I can try
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kylewm not sure if dns is fast enough
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aaronpk usually is for new domains
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zachdonovan.net edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+18) "/* RSVP */ I suppose I should RSVP, eh?" (view diff)
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zachdonovan GWG: my one recruit had to bail, so I'm batting .000 again.
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kylewm aaronpk: is "URL Forwarding" the right place to modify DNS settings in Namecheap?
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aaronpk i dunno, never done that on registrars
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aaronpk i always point the domain at my server and make an nginx rewrite myself :P
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kylewm oh that's what i mean, where do I add the A record
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aaronpk uh, I also run my own DNS :P
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kylewm hahahah
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tantek can't find adactio's rant about autoplay
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aaronpk i have a little web app that updates records in my DB, and then it generates bind zone files, which then get pushed out to the linode DNS servers which are all slaves from my DNS server
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tantek what is a bind zone file?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bind zone file" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=bind+zone+file&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-20%2Fline%2F1432155071905
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tantek what is linode?
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KevinMarks I use Route53
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "linode" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=linode&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-20%2Fline%2F1432155079354
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tantek what is Route53?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Route53" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Route53&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-20%2Fline%2F1432155089136
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aaronpk Linode is a company that provides virtual private servers and DNS hosting https://www.linode.com
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loqi.me created /Linode (+123) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432155079354 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG zachdonovan: I'm dealing with a crisis here. I may miss Quiet Hour
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tantek what is a virtual private server?
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Loqi A Virtual Private Server (AKA VPS) is a level of webhosting service where you get root access to a virtual system and can install whatever you want https://indiewebcamp.com/virtual_private_server
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tantek NICE
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tantek what is DNS hosting?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DNS hosting" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DNS+hosting&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-20%2Fline%2F1432155249872
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aaronparecki.com edited /Linode (+31) "linky" (view diff)
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aaronpk Route53 is a DNS hosting service provided by Amazon
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loqi.me created /Route53 (+78) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432155089136 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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zachdonovan GWG: good luck!
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kylewm well https://www.silo.pub/ gives an https warning now
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aaronpk you can install SSL certs on heroku right?
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kylewm for $20/month...
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tantek wait you actually own silo.pub ?!?
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aaronpk oh darn. well you could just http redirect silo.pub -> heroku for now
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kylewm hmm, tempted to deploy to my server
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kylewm think just a redirect to feverdream.herokuapp.com is good enough for today aaronpk, Kevinmarks?
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KevinMarks sure
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aaronpk yeah good enough for today
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KevinMarks being able to say 'silo.pub' is fun
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tantek isn't deploying to Heroku just adding more work to get off Heroku?
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk well it's already on heroku so...
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aaronpk that is also how i feel about deploying to my old servers
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KevinMarks except deploying to heroku is easy
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KevinMarks and also 12 factor is good discipline
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bret there is little lockin with heroku other than massively more convenient than managing a full linux server
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KevinMarks http://12factor.net/
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tantek bret that's not that different from FB
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KevinMarks you mean parse?
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tantek there is little lockin with Facebook other than massively more usable than setting up your own blog
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bret as far as i know, fb doesn't give you the ability to run custom code on your profile ;)
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aaronpk the only "lock-in" with heroku is that you might have to make slight changes to the way you configure outside resources like a DB connection and credentials for S3 and stuff
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tantek I'm pretty convinced now that convenience is another form of lock-in
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aaronpk but yeah i think that's pretty different from FB... since it's the same code that runs on heroku or your own server
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bret heroku is basically the equivalent of shared hosting for python/ruby/js/java apps
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tantek bret, perhaps add that to summary at top of /Heroku ?
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tantek with linky linky
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bret aaronpk: i think your right the db stuff might marry your apps to heroku a bit
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aaronpk you *can* do your own config on your server the same way, but normally people don't
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bret ill add it in a bit
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tantek db stuff tends to bind you to db-specific fileformats / features etc.
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aaronpk that's a different story
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bret heroku offers heroku for postgres basically.. so they can handle your scaling issues behind the sense the same way they handle keeping your vm up to date and hands off
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KevinMarks the db stuff is more general than appengine, for example
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bret i haven't used it before
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bear I see this project on kickstarter and all I can think about is "wow, everyone could afford their own IndieWeb server" -- https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer
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KevinMarks does it get a public IP?
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aaronpk it's literally just a computer
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bear yea, it's just a computer - but with wifi and a tv... boom, home computer
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bear sorry - I just ran across the link and immediately thought about IWC
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aaronpk interesting move making it analog video only...means they don't need to add an HDMI chip which cuts down the cost a bunch i bet
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bear a whole lot of little bunches - yea
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aaronpk can't believe it has bluetooth tho, that's amazing
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bear smart phone for the UI, this chip + wifi == indieweb
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aaronpk i still wanna figure out what linux software i need to install to turn this or a raspberry pi into a wifi hotspot that pops up a login page when a phone connects
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aaronpk then i'll install my website on it, and make my website the "login page"
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aaronpk really indie web
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KevinMarks why do you want a login page?
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aaronpk you can only visit my site if you are close enough to pick up my wifi
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KevinMarks oh, I see
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aaronpk it'd be cool tho cause you'd connect to the SSID "aaronpk" and then bam you'd see my site without typing in any address or anythin
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KevinMarks if only Apple hadn't patented that
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KevinMarks well, patented the spec extension to send a URL on connection
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KevinMarks so instead you get a middlebox that remaps the entire net to your server
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bear you would need the package hostapd - it allows the raspberrypi to become an AP
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kylewm what looks best SiloPub, Silo Pub, silo.pub?
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aaronpk silo.pub!
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kylewm "silo.pub lets you use Micropub clients like Quill... etc."?
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /deleted (+1016) (view diff)
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bear @aaronpk you can use iptables to force people thru to a login prompt when they first connect to your raspberry pi
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aaronpk do i just force all traffic to localhost:80 basically?
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bear pre-route all 80 to an 8080 that you have a login prompt at
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aaronpk s/login prompt/my website/ :D
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bear when successful then add to the table a route to the real port
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aaronpk cause there is no login and there is no real internet connection behind it
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bear right - public ip -> iptables rules -> localhost:8080 or :80
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bear see this SO question for detailed example - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11125915/how-to-automatically-pop-up-webpage-after-connecting-to-a-wifi-hotspot-through?rq=1
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aaronpk bookmark'd
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bear and because you have to also use dhcp you then need to listen for lease expires (which are very short term with this type of setup) to remove the entry from iptables
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GWG I will be missing quiet hour, it seems
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GWG Crisis at work
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GWG Oh well
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: saw the screenshot with my image not showing up in Woodwind. do you know the problem?
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KevinMarks micropub time
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kylewm KevinMarks: I deployed to http://silo.pub ... It seems to be working more or less, but i haven't tested rigorously yet
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KevinMarks OK, talking https://quill.p3k.io/editor firts
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tantek rhiaro: nice edits - only one bug which I'll fix
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rhiaro please do
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kylewm :D
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tantek gets distracted by C.H.I.P. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer
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tantek which seems named like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
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cweiske aaronpk, the word for what you are looking is "captive portal"
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tantek cweiske++
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Loqi cweiske has 29 karma
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cweiske you can get around most captive portals if you VPN on the DNS port
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cweiske which is why I want a second IP address
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Loqi gives cweiske a second IP address
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cweiske v4 or v6?
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tantek Loqi, v4 or v6?
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Loqi v6
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tantek there you go
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cweiske unfortunately, hosteurope refuses to give me a second ipv6 address for my server
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cweiske ipv6 is in beta mode there :/
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kylewm Jeff jarvis just said he would be next door to the HWC location
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tantek whoa!
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@leolaporte Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601149675291316224)
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@waterhouse RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601150254356893696)
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@anotheraka RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601150300125138944)
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@JLowe781 RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601150453888524289)
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tantek.com edited /deleted (-21) "no need for explicit p-name on simple h-card, nor u-url. works automatically like it should" (view diff)
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tantek yeah @leolaporte!
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@carol_sapp RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601150764992561153)
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tantek is still in the CSS WG f2f
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@evanrodgers RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601153263241682944)
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20150520-223234.png "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aar*@*recki.com>"
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aaronpk tantek: that's the possibly cached list i was talkinga bout the the other day
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GWG En route
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@Mandys_Tweet RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601158148804640769)
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kylewm Leo Laporte was the second person after me to try logging into silo.pub
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kylewm ++ kyle for bravery, -- kyle for stupidity
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aaronpk did it work?
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kylewm yup, think so
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kylewm I got an ssl certificate on there too now, but it's doing something with OCSP where it doesn't work in Firefox yet
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aaronpk oh yeah...i got that too, something about waiting for something to propagate
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aaronpk i don't really understand that part of ssl
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aaronpk i think you have to wait a day after getting the SSL cert before you can install it
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@davidpeach1 Just posted a new article: Going Alone and taking control of my data http://davidpea.ch/articles/596 #ownyourdata #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601168364610916353)
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aaronpk wtf why does firefox keep its own list of root certs and not use the ones installed on my computer?
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@lyonsinbeta RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601169614500810753)
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@benwerd RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601175035336892416)
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GWG Greetings from HWC New York
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GWG Venue with more reliable wifi needed