#indiewebcamp 2015-05-20

2015-05-20 UTC
KartikPrabhu, Deledrius, shiflett and hidgw joined the channel
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GWG
Evening all
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@notoralhistory
.@tumblr Tumblr, any news on how users can export their own tumblr content? It's been asked about for over a yr now... Thanks! #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/600816100339818496)
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GWG
I think I may have figured it out
KartikPrabhu, mlncn, tilgovi, torrorist, KevinMarks__ and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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Vendan
urgh, I want a simple, low markup data serialization language that can be easily written by a human
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Loqi
gives Vendan a simple
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Vendan
and yaml's out cause they forbid tabs, and I forbid spacing for indention
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Vendan
woo, my microformats parser is now normalizing urls
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@thatvirtualboy
Finally got around to setting up my @ownCloud server on a Linux Mint VM #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/600878274735136768)
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@dckc
finally moved http://www.madmode.com to github pages. Transparently, of course, since I have my own domain name. https://indiewebcamp.com/personal-domain
(twitter.com/_/status/600880084157734915)
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@posthuman
Crypto + @indiewebcamp kids. There's a reason he's The Only @t And he's far from alone. Roll your own or be rolled. https://twitter.com/thebafflermag/status/598800959377117185
(twitter.com/_/status/600880705200123904)
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GWG
Staring at code isn't helping. Will have to pick up tomorrow.
nloadholtes, loic_m, Deledrius_, j12t, glennjones, sanduhrs and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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KevinMarks__
I know that feeling. Base64 decode is failing for me on python appengine
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KevinMarks__
Not sure if this is some weird 0 in a cstring problem
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KartikPrabhu
oh that sucks! i was planning to use Quill's editor with local saving of photos by decoding the base64 images
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KevinMarks__
Is there some
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KevinMarks__
Known problem here?
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KevinMarks__
I am doing some devious crap sending a png in a textarea because sending images is hard
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acegiak
KevinMarks__: this is the kind of wild hackery that makes my eyes go wide with excitement
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acegiak
I like the person that goes "well it's not SUPPOSED to solve my problem but it CAN"
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks__: haven't investigated base64 deconding yet so was curious
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks__: haven't investigated base64 deconding yet so was curious
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KartikPrabhu
also somehow finally Bridgy publish stopped adding original URL when I told it not to
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acegiak
GWG: pull request on your desk
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KevinMarks__
One of those annoying appengine things where it works locally and not on the server
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GWG
Morning all
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Vendan
morning
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LanceyWork
good morning
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GWG
Everyone working on interesting things?
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LanceyWork
right now i'm breaking my website to find bugs
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GWG
Fun
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Loqi
[mention] Amy posted 'Generating an ActivityStream Part one: posts-for-all-the-things If you've been paying attention to me IRL or in IRC lately, you'll hav...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (http://blog.rhiaro.co.uk/generating)
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zachdonovan
good morning!
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LanceyWork
good morning, zachdonovan
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GWG
zachdonovan: I have an idea.
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GWG
Would you want to do a remote IWC to coincide with the one in Portland?
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Vendan
I'm hosting a remote IWC in NC :D
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GWG
Vendan: Did you add it to the wiki?
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andyleap.net
edited /2015 (+54) "/* Remote IndieWebCamp Parties */"
(view diff)
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zachdonovan
GWG: sounds cool!
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GWG
zachdonovan: Is your building available? Unlike HWC, IWC is a whole weekend affair.
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GWG
I can also check with Jeremy Zilar, who hosted last time.
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zachdonovan
hmm, let me look at the dates
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GWG
It is 7/11-7/12
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zachdonovan
I should probably not commit my space to that - we may be moving.
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GWG
Let me check with Jeremy then. If not, I'll start looking.
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Vendan
I've gotten permission from the hackerspace I'm a part of to open the doors for the weekend
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GWG
I was going to try for PDX, but I just planned my vacation...and I'm experiencing financial shell shock
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zachdonovan
GWG: sounds good. If he's not available, I can poke around, too.
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GWG
zachdonovan: Will you be able to attend?
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zachdonovan
GWG: yes!
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GWG
I think bear put himself down as interested
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GWG
So, if we get a venue now, we could get at least 5 people or more.
mlncn, jacus, tantek, fourtonfish, KevinMarks_, interactivist and shiflett joined the channel
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GWG
tantek: You excited about tonight?
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GWG
We have a 250% increase over last time
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tantek
WOO HOOO!!!
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tantek
GWG, I'm also inviting the entire CSS Working Group
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GWG
tantek: I've decided to try to get IWC in NYC. I don't think I can get to PDX this year.
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GWG
I'm going to see if Jeremy Zilar can offer a venue. If not, I forget who at IWC Cambridge said they might refer me to a college in NYC. I think it was one of the people from Fredericksburg
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tantek
GWG - perhaps try to FB friend all the people you met at /2015/Cambridge and then invite them to the next IWC NYC?
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tantek
er, next HWC NYC :)
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GWG
tantek: It would be IWC 2015 in NYC, not IWC NYC 2015.
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tantek
got it
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GWG
But, either way...I wanted to discuss with zachdonovan tonight if we wanted to keep NYC monthly for now or not.
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GWG
We may feel flush with success over our 5 attendees and want to keep them
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KevinMarks_
@rhiaro deleting a post could create a tombstone post (with a deleted date)
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: the problem is more to do with how to propagate the delete out to subscribers
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tantek
aaronpk - just another PuSH right?
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aaronpk
probably
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tantek
rhiaro: posts have permalinks on the web. activities don't. that makes posts the clear winner IMO
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tantek
nevermind the simpler data model
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tantek
this is not true: "the data they contain are basically the same."
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tantek
activities are a needlessly more complex way of what posts represent
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tantek
what are activities?
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Loqi
activities are the content unit of ActivityStreams https://indiewebcamp.com/activities
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tantek
wow I did that back in 2012
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: are you planning on going to HWC tonight? I just found out I don't think I can make it
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tantek
kylewm: bummer - definitely get a co-organizer to take over for yoU!
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tantek
KevinMarks or benwerd perhaps
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aaronpk
i think i'm going to do HWC PDX as a hack night tonight
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tantek
aaronpk - cool - note that on the wiki page
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tantek.com
edited /activities (+371) "expand dfn see also"
(view diff)
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tantek
rhiaro: re: "do I care if I'm creating and pushing around posts, or activities? Probably not." - no, you do care, because activities are a more complex model that takes more work to understand, implement, and test, as compared to posts. You should care that the activities model wastes your time for no benefit.
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tantek
re: "I just want to do stuff, and have people see it." YES. This.
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tantek
rhiaro: s/inherant/inherent
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aaronpk
haha this is like paragraph-level comments via irc
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Loqi
ahaha
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tantek
rhiaro: I think the big thing you're missing is plain text only fallbacks for all posts
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tantek
once you implement those, it's obvious that it's all posts, especially from a fallback perspective, and there are no empty nodes or any other such semantic nonsense
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tantek
in general the MVP (minimum viable post) strategy of plain text design first appears to simplify a lot of the concepts here, and in particular make it obvious that activities were always a poor abstraction to begin with.
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aaronpk
hmm that gives me an idea
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aaronpk
also urrrghhhh i need a better interface for posting events
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tantek
no matter what the post is, whether a /listen a /consume etc.
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rhiaro
tantek: there's not reason for activities not to have permalinks
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tantek
there's ALWAYS a need for plain text design fallback
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tantek
rhiaro: in that case they're just posts
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rhiaro
EXACTLY
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tantek
and there was never a need for second name
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tantek
for the same thing
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rhiaro
this is literally my point
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tantek
this kind of architecture / terminology abstraction typically happens when people lead with specs, without selfdogfooding with implementations on their own sites
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tantek
so I blame ALL of the ActivityStreams authors/editors for not selfdogfooding soon enough and thus realizing the activities model was not only unnecessary, but crap :P
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tantek
don't trust any specs that the authors/editors are not selfdogfooding on their own site
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tantek
rhiaro: "so the URI of the deleted post is retained with a deletion date attached, but all other properties deleted" - simple, capture that in the dt-updated in the h-entry on that 410 :)
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tantek
(since there's not much updating you can do *after* a delete, the dt-updated returned MUST represent when the post was deleted. boom. :) )
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tantek
congrats rhiaro, you just came up with the first good use-case to always have tombstone /deleted posts - to represent when it was deleted.
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tantek
it just so happens there was an obvious solution with the use of existing h-entry / dt-updated
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+44) "update pdx info as a hack night!"
(view diff)
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tantek
yup - already pinged GWG about that many days (week+ ? ) ago
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GWG
tantek: Did you?
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GWG
I must have missed it
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GWG
There
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GWG
I have a parsing question. If I put a u-in-reply-to or p-in-reply-to into my e-content, the parser will see it as part of the e-content and part of the in-reply-to property...
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GWG
I'm guessing that is unavoidable.
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GWG
Still trying to solve a usability problem
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tantek
yes that's fine
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tantek
it will still show up as a property on the object
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rhiaro
tantek: any thoughts on follow posts for readers posting new follows via micropub?
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GWG
But in the parser, the content property isn't readable.
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GWG
This is a parsing question
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GWG
If the property is inside the e-content, shouldn't it strip the property from the e-content field?
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: the u-in-reply-to will also show up in th h-entry property
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KartikPrabhu
no it should not strip
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: That I know. I'm saying it also shows the markup in the content field itself when parsing the elements.
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KartikPrabhu
yes. why is that a problem?
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KartikPrabhu
e-parsing should not remove any markup from inside the e-* element
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tantek
rhiaro: but first what do you think of the how to publish deleted datetime? (see above)
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: I think I need an example
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rhiaro
tantek: yeah that makes sense. Deleting and leaving a shell feels a lot like updating
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aaronpk
it's an update where you blank out all the properties :)
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rhiaro
though the intent is different, and there's some debate to be had about whether, if you're intending to delete a post, you want to remove all evidence of it ever having existed
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rhiaro
not that you can really do that on the web
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rhiaro
but you can at least do it on your own server
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GWG
The parser at pin13 actually is stripping it.
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GWG
What other parsing tests are there available?
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GWG
I think that uses php-mf2
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tantek
rhiaro: that's up to you
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tantek
on your site - how much information do you want to publish about/in your /deleted post
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rhiaro
tantek, aaronpk: I'll probably update my post to use dt-updated and lose the u-delete-of stuff
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tantek
you could even ACL it - and maybe only provide h-entry / dt-updated info for /deleted posts to those that have signed in with IndieAuth or to a whitelist OR to only yourself
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rhiaro
so it's implementation-dependant, I mean plumbing, and needn't be spec'd
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tantek
no I was speaking from user-experience perspective
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tantek
you said you wanted to keep track (see?) when you deleted a post
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tantek
so I suggested a possible solution for that that would publicly say so
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tantek
then I realized maybe you meant ONLY you could see when you deleted a post
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tantek
so I suggested a possible solution for that
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GWG
I think I found the problem. It isn't in the parsing.
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GWG
Another WordPress pecularity
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GWG
I can fix it.
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tantek
who uncorked bridgy?
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tantek
well that's it - going out to get lunch
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rhiaro
tantek: but yeah, making deletion info up to the author I agree with
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tantek
rhiaro: want to capture whatever you thought I said made sense onto /deleted#Brainstorming ?
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kylewm
hmm, did bridgy just get approved for user_events!?
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kylewm
that. is. hilarious. I found out via IRC before facebook emailed me!
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: <@U03QSRDJ9>
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: oops
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: @kevinmark can you cover for me at HWC tonight? something came up and I don't think I can make it :confused:
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: wow, how'd I screw that up twice
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: <@U03QSRDJ9>: can you cover for me at HWC tonight? something came up and I don't think I can make it :confused:
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aaronpk
i still don't get why slack does that
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snarfed
kylewm++ 1000x for getting a bunch of new FB permissions approved for bridgy!
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Loqi
kylewm has 171 karma
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snarfed
…it can now continue to do everything it already did before the 2.x api apocalypse :|
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KevinMarks___
Yes, I can probably get there for 5:30 or so - I'm on TWiG this afternoon
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KevinMarks___
So send me things to talk about
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aaronpk
KevinMarks___: did you already talk about quill's new editor?
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KevinMarks___
I'm gong to mention fever dream and quills new editor, yes
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KevinMarks___
Especially with Jeff there
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snarfed
KevinMarks: i assume complaining about FB's capricious API changes is boring at this point :P
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KevinMarks___
I can do it to reinforce the point
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snarfed
eh no need
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
plenty of others complain in press/media about the negatives of silos
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tantek
let's focus our limited press/media time on the positives of indieweb, how we're solving those problems and providing alternatives
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GWG
KevinMarks___: Going to tell them about HWC NYC for me?
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tantek
e.g. KevinMarks you can refer to snowflake APIs
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tantek
GWG, give him a URL to promote :)
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GWG
KevinMarks___: This will work. We're looking to build it. Also a more permanent venue if anyone would like to volunteer one.
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snarfed
the superfeedr service mentioned in that tweet is pretty cool. http://blog.superfeedr.com/subscribe-backlinks/
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snarfed
next step: build a third party webmention service that subscribes to the firehose and tries to send webmentions for all links on all sites, everywhere :P
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tantek
GWG, yes he should promote SF, PDX, NYC
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GWG
KevinMarks___: You think you can get Jeff Jarvis to loan us a classroom at CUNY School of Journalism?
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snarfed
(i don't think they actually expose a firehose, but we could at least make one that's opt in per site)
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tantek
GWG, oh I should invite him on FB
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tantek
huh apparently we were not FB friends - so that's been requested at least
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tantek
nice thing with Indie Events, you don't have to be "friends" (whatever that means in IndieWeb) to send people an /invitation to your /event
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aaronpk
bret: aw
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GWG
Will definitely be there at 7:30. 6:30 is still...iffy. It depends on whether I can slip away
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tantek
GWG, I will attempt to make it there at 18:30 or nearby if they don't have wifi
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GWG
It says there is wifi.
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GWG
But saying and meaning...
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aaronpk
twitter just added a little "follow" button next to reply, retwee, favorite
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tantek
GWG, I am hopeful
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tantek
aaronpk in what context? I feel like I've seen that before
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GWG
I'll bring my Karma Hotspot
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aaronpk
viewing any tweet
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GWG
If it ever arrives
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aaronpk
maybe i just never noticed it, but i do often look at tweets from people i don't follow
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tantek
tweet permalinks? yes I've seen that for a while
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aaronpk
in stream views too
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tantek
waits for rhiaro to update /deleted and continues to read her post
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tantek
rhiaro: this is reasonable plain text first design "I deleted a post. 15th May 2015 13:06 Amy Guy" - well done.
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tantek
that's worth capturing in /deleted#Brainstorming as well - as plain text first design
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tantek
and as you figured out - u-deleted-of is not needed
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KevinMarks_
There is a case for replacing the deleted post with a tombstone
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GWG
I'm more the sort for the funny note.
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KevinMarks_
As that way things that update with diffs will not keep caching the old one
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GWG
"There used to be something here...there isn't anymore. Deal with it."
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tantek
KevinMarks: a /deleted post is a tombstone
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tantek
I think you missed that at the start of this discussion
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tantek
The point is that even 410 returns still can return an HTTP body, we're only discussing what goes into that body - that's a tombstone
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KevinMarks_
Ah got it
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KevinMarks_
I thought you were discussing amy's suggestion of deletion as activity
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tantek
nah that was rejected even earlier - read back even further
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aaronpk
IMO the body should actually contain an HTML h-entry with all the properties blanked out except e-content or p-summary that has the fallback text. that way consumers that don't recognize the 410 would at least treat it as an "update" and replace the content
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tantek
so far I haven't seen an activity that I can't redesign as a simpler post + maybe some HTTP re-use.
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tantek
aaronpk - yes, see the plain text design noted above, and when that gets captured on the wiki, I'll happily add a marked up version after that
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tantek
will wait for rhiaro to first capture all this on /deleted before answering her question about follow post equivalent for activity etc.
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KevinMarks_
I think we're agreeing
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KevinMarks
maybe I should quit yak-shaving in trying to mung svg into png in the browser and base64 decode on the server, but it is annoying
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tantek
rhiaro: if activities are there "To propagate changes through a network. To tell people that somebody did something." then they are already handled by Webmention + PuSH
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tantek
then the somethings are retrieved from post permalinks
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aaronpk
there are several cases that doesn't work
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tantek
rhiaro: s/experimantal/experimental
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tantek
aaronpk: oh?
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tantek
I have yet to see one - per the assertion above
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aaronpk
which is what i found trying to document how to do these flows
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tantek
per "so far I haven't seen an activity that I can't redesign as a simpler post + maybe some HTTP re-use."
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aaronpk
the problem is you need something in addition to the post-date-chronological ordering
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aaronpk
otherwise updates or deletes of older things won't get propagated
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tantek
aaronpk: for what context of use-case?
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aaronpk
easy example is right now i delete a post that isn't on my home page
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tantek
start with the use-case rather than strawmanning some plumbing
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aaronpk
your reader isn't going to ever be able to find that i deleted it
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tantek
aaronpk: really? why not include most recent dt-updated posts on your home page instead of dt-published? or union of?
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aaronpk
because that's not what i want my home page to look like
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tantek
thinks he remembers seeing people have boxes on their home pages of "recently updated posts"
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aaronpk
i'm considering putting that kind of stuff in a little sidebar though
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tantek
concept jinx :)
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tantek
yes, putting that kind of stuff in a little sidebar box will solve your use-case
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aaronpk
that sidebar is what i'm calling my "activity stream" :)
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aaronpk
or changelog
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KevinMarks
changelog is what activity stream was modelling yes
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tantek
that framing seems duplicatively overlapping with your home page stream
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KevinMarks
which is why it has more than just the post model
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aaronpk
here's where it gets confusing though... i have posts not on my home page, like /metrics
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tantek
whereas the tighter framing of "recently updated posts" would be both less noisy, and provide only the essential / minimum required to solve the problem you said about posts that scroll off the home page but you update/delete
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KevinMarks
"news feed" on fb was a public changelog, filtered by those you are friends with
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aaronpk
and if i add/delete/update things there, i certainly don't want those udpates on my home page because the posts aren't even on my home page
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tantek
aaronpk: sure, as does Known by default
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tantek
KevinMarks: no "news feed" was not a changelog - it omitted lots of kinds of changes
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KevinMarks
but it had more than explicit posts, whcih is the point
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tantek
no that's not the point
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tantek
explicit vs passive posts are not the entirety of a change log
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cweiske
eeks. aaronpk: monocle auto-played a video from your feed
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cweiske
or rather my browser
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cweiske
this is unfortunate
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aaronpk
yes i think i need to do some html sanitization in monocle
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cweiske
which has autoplay on I suppose
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aaronpk
yeah i have autoplay on the permalinks but not in the stream view
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aaronpk
and monocle fetches the permalink version
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aaronpk
that's a different permalink
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kylewm
I *think* that was a mistake that was deleted
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aaronpk
oh you're totally right
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aaronpk
that was the first one i posted before my micropub endpoint allowed me to post HTML (it was assuming all input was plaintext before)
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cweiske
but when I scroll down to the permalink after the gibberish, it's that one
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aaronpk
well that's a different problem then :)
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kylewm
huh yeah, I don't have the updated permalink in woodwind
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kylewm
only the garbled one
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aaronpk
oh i see...
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aaronpk
this was my site's fault
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aaronpk
i didn't properly tombstone that delete
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aaronpk
so when I posted about timezones, it re-used the same URL as the deleted post
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aaronpk
well, not quite the same URL... old URL was https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/11/1/ and the new one is https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/05/11/1/timezones but now the old is a 301 to the new one
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aaronpk
which means... monocle still thinks they are different posts so it didn't get treated as an update
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kylewm
I have a similar but different problem with KartikPrabhu's images in Woodwind https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/kartik-escaped-html.png
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kylewm
I don't think the php mf2 parser has this issue
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@ajspadial
Pa afuxir de los #silos de la rede, tengo que entamar la mio alternativa: ¿una #varayerba, una #tenada o un #horru? Paso a paso #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601115296062136320)
Unifex and mlncn joined the channel
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tantek
aaronpk, I think adactio has an opinion on autoplay ;)
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aaronpk
well for the record, the reason is this: you're on aaronparecki.com and see the still frame with the "play button" overlay, you click it, it takes you to the permalink and the video plays
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aaronpk
that was easier than fiddling with JS to make the image swap out with the video when clicked
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KevinMarks
isn't that in the video tag?
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aaronpk
i was concerned about slowing browsers down by having a bunch of video tags on list views. if that isn't something i should worry about then i could probably switch it
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KevinMarks
if you turn off preload it's OK
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KevinMarks
leo pushing mobilepub
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kylewm
dang, did Leo just say he's using ben_thatmustbeme's android app?
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kylewm
and OwnYourGram
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aaronpk
checks server logs to make sure the server stays up :)
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KevinMarks
leo is a big known fan
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KevinMarks
apparently mobilepub and known don't work with audio
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aaronpk
i coulda sworn Known did
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KevinMarks
kylewm: did you get silo.pub for feverdream?
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aaronpk
quick! register silo.pub!
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KevinMarks
I can do it if kyle is busy
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kylewm
Ha, I can try
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kylewm
not sure if dns is fast enough
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aaronpk
usually is for new domains
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zachdonovan.net
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+18) "/* RSVP */ I suppose I should RSVP, eh?"
(view diff)
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zachdonovan
GWG: my one recruit had to bail, so I'm batting .000 again.
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kylewm
aaronpk: is "URL Forwarding" the right place to modify DNS settings in Namecheap?
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aaronpk
i dunno, never done that on registrars
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aaronpk
i always point the domain at my server and make an nginx rewrite myself :P
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kylewm
oh that's what i mean, where do I add the A record
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aaronpk
uh, I also run my own DNS :P
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kylewm
hahahah
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tantek
can't find adactio's rant about autoplay
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aaronpk
i have a little web app that updates records in my DB, and then it generates bind zone files, which then get pushed out to the linode DNS servers which are all slaves from my DNS server
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tantek
what is a bind zone file?
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tantek
what is linode?
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KevinMarks
I use Route53
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tantek
what is Route53?
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aaronpk
Linode is a company that provides virtual private servers and DNS hosting https://www.linode.com
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loqi.me
created /Linode (+123) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432155079354 and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
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GWG
zachdonovan: I'm dealing with a crisis here. I may miss Quiet Hour
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tantek
what is a virtual private server?
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Loqi
A Virtual Private Server (AKA VPS) is a level of webhosting service where you get root access to a virtual system and can install whatever you want https://indiewebcamp.com/virtual_private_server
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tantek
what is DNS hosting?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Linode (+31) "linky"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
Route53 is a DNS hosting service provided by Amazon
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loqi.me
created /Route53 (+78) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432155089136 and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
interactivist joined the channel
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zachdonovan
GWG: good luck!
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kylewm
well https://www.silo.pub/ gives an https warning now
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aaronpk
you can install SSL certs on heroku right?
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kylewm
for $20/month...
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tantek
wait you actually own silo.pub ?!?
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aaronpk
oh darn. well you could just http redirect silo.pub -> heroku for now
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kylewm
hmm, tempted to deploy to my server
frzn joined the channel
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kylewm
think just a redirect to feverdream.herokuapp.com is good enough for today aaronpk, Kevinmarks?
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aaronpk
yeah good enough for today
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KevinMarks
being able to say 'silo.pub' is fun
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tantek
isn't deploying to Heroku just adding more work to get off Heroku?
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aaronpk
well it's already on heroku so...
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aaronpk
that is also how i feel about deploying to my old servers
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KevinMarks
except deploying to heroku is easy
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KevinMarks
and also 12 factor is good discipline
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bret
there is little lockin with heroku other than massively more convenient than managing a full linux server
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tantek
bret that's not that different from FB
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KevinMarks
you mean parse?
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tantek
there is little lockin with Facebook other than massively more usable than setting up your own blog
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bret
as far as i know, fb doesn't give you the ability to run custom code on your profile ;)
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aaronpk
the only "lock-in" with heroku is that you might have to make slight changes to the way you configure outside resources like a DB connection and credentials for S3 and stuff
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tantek
I'm pretty convinced now that convenience is another form of lock-in
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aaronpk
but yeah i think that's pretty different from FB... since it's the same code that runs on heroku or your own server
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bret
heroku is basically the equivalent of shared hosting for python/ruby/js/java apps
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tantek
bret, perhaps add that to summary at top of /Heroku ?
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tantek
with linky linky
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bret
aaronpk: i think your right the db stuff might marry your apps to heroku a bit
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aaronpk
you *can* do your own config on your server the same way, but normally people don't
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bret
ill add it in a bit
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tantek
db stuff tends to bind you to db-specific fileformats / features etc.
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aaronpk
that's a different story
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bret
heroku offers heroku for postgres basically.. so they can handle your scaling issues behind the sense the same way they handle keeping your vm up to date and hands off
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KevinMarks
the db stuff is more general than appengine, for example
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bret
i haven't used it before
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bear
I see this project on kickstarter and all I can think about is "wow, everyone could afford their own IndieWeb server" -- https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer
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KevinMarks
does it get a public IP?
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aaronpk
it's literally just a computer
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bear
yea, it's just a computer - but with wifi and a tv... boom, home computer
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bear
sorry - I just ran across the link and immediately thought about IWC
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aaronpk
interesting move making it analog video only...means they don't need to add an HDMI chip which cuts down the cost a bunch i bet
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bear
a whole lot of little bunches - yea
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aaronpk
can't believe it has bluetooth tho, that's amazing
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bear
smart phone for the UI, this chip + wifi == indieweb
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aaronpk
i still wanna figure out what linux software i need to install to turn this or a raspberry pi into a wifi hotspot that pops up a login page when a phone connects
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aaronpk
then i'll install my website on it, and make my website the "login page"
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aaronpk
really indie web
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KevinMarks
why do you want a login page?
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aaronpk
you can only visit my site if you are close enough to pick up my wifi
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KevinMarks
oh, I see
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aaronpk
it'd be cool tho cause you'd connect to the SSID "aaronpk" and then bam you'd see my site without typing in any address or anythin
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KevinMarks
if only Apple hadn't patented that
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KevinMarks
well, patented the spec extension to send a URL on connection
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KevinMarks
so instead you get a middlebox that remaps the entire net to your server
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bear
you would need the package hostapd - it allows the raspberrypi to become an AP
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kylewm
what looks best SiloPub, Silo Pub, silo.pub?
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aaronpk
silo.pub!
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kylewm
"silo.pub lets you use Micropub clients like Quill... etc."?
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bear
@aaronpk you can use iptables to force people thru to a login prompt when they first connect to your raspberry pi
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aaronpk
do i just force all traffic to localhost:80 basically?
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bear
pre-route all 80 to an 8080 that you have a login prompt at
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aaronpk
s/login prompt/my website/ :D
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bear
when successful then add to the table a route to the real port
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aaronpk
cause there is no login and there is no real internet connection behind it
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bear
right - public ip -> iptables rules -> localhost:8080 or :80
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aaronpk
bookmark'd
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bear
and because you have to also use dhcp you then need to listen for lease expires (which are very short term with this type of setup) to remove the entry from iptables
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GWG
I will be missing quiet hour, it seems
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GWG
Crisis at work
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GWG
Oh well
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: saw the screenshot with my image not showing up in Woodwind. do you know the problem?
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KevinMarks
micropub time
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kylewm
KevinMarks: I deployed to http://silo.pub ... It seems to be working more or less, but i haven't tested rigorously yet
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tantek
rhiaro: nice edits - only one bug which I'll fix
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rhiaro
please do
cweiske joined the channel
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tantek
which seems named like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
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cweiske
aaronpk, the word for what you are looking is "captive portal"
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tantek
cweiske++
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Loqi
cweiske has 29 karma
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cweiske
you can get around most captive portals if you VPN on the DNS port
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cweiske
which is why I want a second IP address
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Loqi
gives cweiske a second IP address
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cweiske
v4 or v6?
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tantek
Loqi, v4 or v6?
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tantek
there you go
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cweiske
unfortunately, hosteurope refuses to give me a second ipv6 address for my server
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cweiske
ipv6 is in beta mode there :/
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kylewm
Jeff jarvis just said he would be next door to the HWC location
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tantek
whoa!
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@leolaporte
Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601149675291316224)
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@waterhouse
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601150254356893696)
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@anotheraka
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601150300125138944)
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@JLowe781
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601150453888524289)
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (-21) "no need for explicit p-name on simple h-card, nor u-url. works automatically like it should"
(view diff)
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@carol_sapp
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601150764992561153)
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tantek
is still in the CSS WG f2f
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@evanrodgers
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601153263241682944)
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20150520-223234.png "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aar*@*recki.com>"
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aaronpk
tantek: that's the possibly cached list i was talkinga bout the the other day
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GWG
En route
almereyda joined the channel
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@Mandys_Tweet
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601158148804640769)
KevinMarks and Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
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kylewm
Leo Laporte was the second person after me to try logging into silo.pub
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kylewm
++ kyle for bravery, -- kyle for stupidity
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aaronpk
did it work?
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kylewm
yup, think so
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kylewm
I got an ssl certificate on there too now, but it's doing something with OCSP where it doesn't work in Firefox yet
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aaronpk
oh yeah...i got that too, something about waiting for something to propagate
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aaronpk
i don't really understand that part of ssl
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aaronpk
i think you have to wait a day after getting the SSL cert before you can install it
KartikPrabhu, j12t and mlncn joined the channel
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@davidpeach1
Just posted a new article: Going Alone and taking control of my data http://davidpea.ch/articles/596 #ownyourdata #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601168364610916353)
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aaronpk
wtf why does firefox keep its own list of root certs and not use the ones installed on my computer?
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@lyonsinbeta
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601169614500810753)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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@benwerd
RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/601175035336892416)
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GWG
Greetings from HWC New York
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GWG
Venue with more reliable wifi needed