#indiewebcamp 2015-05-21

2015-05-21 UTC
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KevinMarks_ that's trouble with a city made of stone
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david.shanske.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+79) "/* Planning Questions */" (view diff)
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zachdonovan GWG++ for the mobile wifi hotspot rescue!
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Loqi GWG has 94 karma
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tantek Live from New York City!
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KevinMarks_ it's Wednesday Night
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KevinMarks_ also last night of Letterman
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GWG Is it?
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GWG demos some things he is working on
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KevinMarks_ jeff and leo were talking about it on TWiG, though apparently the recording is already over
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GWG shows web action/quick post handling
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KevinMarks_ do demo silo.pub too!
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GWG has not yet demonstrated web action handler
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tantek GWG demonstrated his quick posting UI, including how it automatically retrieves meta information of various sorts from various sites.
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GWG shows the display functionality he wants to completely rewrite
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@benwerd @duffy0 Yep! Alas I can't make it tonight, but should be a good crowd: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/601183785019834368)
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Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller commented '@duffy0 Yep! Alas I can't make it tonight, but should be a good crowd: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (http://werd.io/2015/duffy0-yep-alas-i-cant-make-it-tonight-but-should)
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zachdonovan GWG has a fix for his address lookup code to upload when he gets home
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tantek HWC NYC is discussing more venue options that have open / free wifi
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tantek gRegorLove: could you create the HWC page for 2015-06-17 ?
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david.shanske.com created /events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club (+4527) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club (+52) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ should we ask Jeff jarvis?
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kylewm did Jarvis show up?
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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callovarne Anyone at Bailey's yet?
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GWG tantek is now demoing how a blank in a like indicates and autoembed, but if he adds anything in, it uses that information.
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GWG tantek uses a flat file system, for those who don't recall
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GWG By the way, no Jarvis
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GWG Still need a venue for IWC in NYC in July
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Vendan just odd question, does anyone else use a language that requires a build step, or is mostly everyone on "source code is the executable" languages?
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KevinMarks_ more of a deploy step
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Vendan yeah, that's what I figured
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bret i think i've found the perfect slide software: https://github.com/tmcw/big
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@SueTheWriter @leolaporte what's #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/601224892965498881)
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KartikPrabhu bret: I use: https://github.com/bartaz/impress.js
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KartikPrabhu with results: https://kartikprabhu.com/talks
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bret thats pretty nice too
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KartikPrabhu I alwys get "how did you do that with Latex" at science conferences! :P
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bret lol
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bret how do i make my beamer spin like that!
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KartikPrabhu yeah :) though I do keep slide transitions to a minumum
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bret big is similar, but every slide is just a single div + whatever selectors you want inside
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bret for css and whatnot
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bret not sure how math friendlt it is
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GWG !tell acegiak I am thinking of moving the response back to the content block.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu bret: for the math I use MathJax
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: with the <noscript> overescaping in mf2py... i haven't looked into it yet. probably a difference between html5lib and lxml again
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: >>> soup.find('noscript')
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kylewm <noscript>&lt;img class="u-photo square" src="//lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mZumQ7PqDtw/VVwvlZ4Nf_I/AAAAAAAAQuI/jYaPj06sDLg/s500/slate-comments-fail.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /&gt;</noscript>
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david.shanske.com uploaded /File:HWC-NYC-2015-05-20.jpg "Homebrew Website Club - New York Chapter, May 20th, 2015."
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KartikPrabhu oh I see. I load different size images using script and the noscript is for parsers and such
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KartikPrabhu and for non JS users
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david.shanske.com edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+34) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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@dougmckown @SueTheWriter http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/601245270265966592)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: as predicted, html5lib escapes <img> inside of <noscript>, and lxml doesn't
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KartikPrabhu oh strange. I guess html5lib is supposed to act as a browser would but escaping inside <noscript> is a bit much IMP
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KartikPrabhu IMO*
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kylewm i kind of hate html5lib
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kylewm DenverCoder9 what did you see?? http://blog.futtta.be/2010/12/01/venus-doesnt-love-noscript/
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@marsquad51 RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601249004458938369)
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kylewm nothing too exciting about it really, html5lib just punted on implementing the "javascript disabled" case, and didn't bother to parse noscript tags
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kylewm not altogether unreasonable
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yeah so the sanitisation is somewhere deep inside html5lib. I don't get why a HTML parser should sanitise anything
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@ajspadial Sigo a @t pol su trabayo en @indiewebcamp. Toy escribiendo un acortador basado nel su algoritmo. Pero mira-y otra vegada el su alias Ó__Ò (twitter.com/_/status/601265468524142592)
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cweiske !tell aaronpk: are the "file links" broken on indiewebcamp.com? http://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-authorization-process.png#filelinks does not show any, but it's embedded at http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: I can an image file at that URL
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KartikPrabhu s/can/can see
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: cweiske: I can see an image file at that URL
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cweiske below the image, there is a heading "file links"
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cweiske which should show pages that link to the file
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KartikPrabhu yes and it shows IndieAuthProtocol
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cweiske not for me: http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-05-21%20001%20Auswahl.png
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cweiske hm. when using https, it works
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KartikPrabhu weird!
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KartikPrabhu oh
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KartikPrabhu !tell cweiske I can see the link on both http and https
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks “Maybe it is not the anonymity. Maybe it is just people.” http://registration.ft.com/registration/barrier?location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F322fc83e-cc8f-11e4-b5a5-00144feab7de.html%3Fsiteedition%3Duk&referer= #nymwars #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601287349410992129)
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@michielbdejong RT @maxlath: #oslabs15 @michielbdejong on sharing between #indieweb platforms https://etherpad.mozilla.org/decsharing #MayTheEldersBeWithYou http://t.co/KX… (twitter.com/_/status/601288384787644417)
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tommorris indiwebsters! FIX YOUR SSL to prevent FREAK/Logjam attacks. https://weakdh.org/sysadmin.html
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tommorris also be sure to throw salt over your shoulder, not walk under any ladders, avoid black cats crossing your path, knock on some wood and pray to the lesser gods that the OpenSSL devs are doing their thing competently.
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@BITSolve @leolaporte yeah Leo, what's #indieweb is this some kind of #Antiestablishmentarianism against the commercial internet (twitter.com/_/status/601304021555609600)
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tommorris also, if any of you are using Java for anything, fixing SSL to prevent Logjam will break Java-related stuff.
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@ajspadial Entamando la mio nueva #indieweb (http://antoniojesus.spadial.com) rompí la vieya (http://aj.spadial.com) fecha con #getpelican. (twitter.com/_/status/601318396857286656)
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rhiaro does somebody already have code for parsing content and author out of tweets for repost display?
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rhiaro or do I have to use the API
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rhiaro why does twitter make you auth for GET now?
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@matthillco @techytuppers There are better projects worth our time: https://indiewebcamp.com/ for example. (twitter.com/_/status/601344498791272448)
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tantek rhiaro: I believe phpmf2 has some Twitter tweet parsing utils - that provide h-entry like parsing of tweet permalinks
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rhiaro tantek: ooh, thanks
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rhiaro bonus points for a library I'm already using
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Vendan ugh, yes, anything to avoid twitter's api
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Vendan I hate that stuff
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rhiaro yeah, but I really should make some effort to parse out reposts of tweets, they're currently >blank space<
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rhiaro since most of my reposts are retweets
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rhiaro hmm I can't find anything to do with twitter in phpmf2
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rhiaro oh it's in the shim
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rhiaro https://github.com/aaronpk/php-mf2-twitter-shim for anyone who might be reading these logs one day in the future :)
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rhiaro ughhhh it still requires twitter dev credentials
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tantek rhiaro: I thought barnabywalters's library/function for this just scraped the HTML
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rhiaro not that I can find
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@cdevroe RT @leolaporte: Posting this on MY site and syndicating it to Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Hoorah #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/601357144169062400)
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rhiaro ^ oh, people syndicate to linked in? linked in has posts?
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GWG Good morning all
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tantek rhiaro: yes. /Known has had POSSE to linkedin for a while
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Vendan LinkedIn, it's facebook for working professionals!
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tantek.com created /slack (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+24) "/* Join the IndieWeb */ link to freenode webchat instead of irc: link" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor home page link test complete
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Vendan ugh, slack is annoying
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Vendan well, actually, painful
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Vendan as in, literally so. That much white just hurts my eyes
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@andy_leap @techytuppers @matthillco @indie Building my own software on #indieweb and open sourcing every bit of it. (twitter.com/_/status/601376468904574976)
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barnabywalters morning rhiaro — php-mf2-shim doesn’t touch the twitter API at all, it scrapes information out of twitter.com HTML — what problems are you having with it?
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tantek Vendan: thanks for positively engaging on that thread
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rhiaro barnabywalters: I haven't tried it yet, I just noticed the example had "client($twitterClientID, $twitterClientSecret, $twitterAccessToken, $twitterAccessTokenSecret);"
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rhiaro it's no big deal really
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barnabywalters rhiaro: are we looking at the same thing? I can’t see that line of code anywhere on https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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rhiaro oh I was on aaronpk's version
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rhiaro maybe it's out of sync
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rhiaro in which case: awesome, thanks!
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barnabywalters interesting, I did not know that one existed! Looks like it transforms twitter API responses into microformats serialisation
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barnabywalters aaronpk do you actively use your twitter shim? Would be interested in knowing what prompted use of the API over HTML scraping — stability?
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barnabywalters fwiw I’ve had minimal problems with the HTML scraping approach, but that could change at any moment. After all, Twitter are obliged to let people know about API updates but not front end code changes
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GWG barnabywalters: Hello. Haven't seen much of you lately. Nice to have you around
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barnabywalters greetings GWG! I’ve been doing much indieweb work recently. Been working on anything interesting?
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GWG barnabywalters: Still on WordPress Indieweb plug-ins. Doing a rewrite of my Post Kinds code with OOP
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GWG The object oriented stuff isn't why I am rewriting it, but it will allow me to better vary the presentation by inheritance.
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GWG It has been driving me crazy trying to design a class with the right functions. If I find it this hsrd, I have sympathy for those who design APIs
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tantek GWG, delegation can be easier to work with than inheritance
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Vendan also, composition :D
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Vendan that's a bit harder in php though
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GWG Well, basically I want to have a generic post display object and specific post type objects that use the same functions so I can detect and pass an object of the correct type
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GWG Vendan, you mentioned interfaces, but that doesn't work with having a generic functionality replaced by more custom ones.
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GWG This is why I used to avoid object oriented stuff when I programmed in C back in the day.
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Vendan that's actually relatively easy.
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Vendan unless php is far more borked then I remember
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GWG Vendan: I agree. My problem is designing the base class well
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Vendan yeah, that's why I like golang and composition over inheritence
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GWG Having one function called get_display seems like I'm missing something
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tantek yes, composition
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Vendan I don't deal with a base class, except for a common shared data
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Vendan I've quite often found that, although everyone likes the idea of a heirarchial tree structure of inheritence, real life doesn't work that way :D
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GWG I already designed the data retrieval class to separate it from the display class
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GWG Vendan, I'm using it more for the common interface
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Vendan you realize the irony in your statement, right?
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GWG Vendan: I am a horrible programmer, so tell me
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Vendan "I'm using it more for the common interface" vs. "you mentioned interfaces, but that doesn't work with having a generic functionality replaced by more custom ones"
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GWG Vendan: The interface implementation in PHP
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GWG I would need abstract
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LanceyWork morning
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Vendan hrm, then php's type system sucks, but I guess I already knew that
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LanceyWork it's php, name something about it that doesn't suck
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barnabywalters LanceyWork: blanket language bashing is not necessary or welcome here
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barnabywalters also, hello :)
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barnabywalters Vendan: are you the person working on the Go microformats 2 parser?
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Vendan yeap
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Vendan still a work in progress
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barnabywalters great! I will certainly have a look over it, I considered building one as Go practise a while ago but always had other things to do. will be interesting to see how you’re implementing it
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barnabywalters where’s the code? I don’t see it linked on http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
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Vendan http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Go
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barnabywalters nice — are issues accepted? I found a bug :)
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zachdonovan good morning!
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Vendan issues are appreciated :D
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Vendan though there are many many bugs still
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Vendan are you looking at using it in something?
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barnabywalters Vendan: probably not, although I’ve been considering rewriting my feedreader backend in Go for the websocket support. I do have some relevant mf parsing experience and might be able to provide helpful hints though
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Vendan heh, alot of my issue is really just finding time
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barnabywalters that’s a familiar issue :)
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barnabywalters Vendan: created https://github.com/andyleap/microformats/issues/1 and https://github.com/andyleap/microformats/issues/2 — great work on this, looking forward to seeing it grow!
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barnabywalters ha ha wow that was quick
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Vendan argh, really need to get a better build+deploy setup then wercker
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Vendan it's just crazy slow
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barnabywalters hm, my second issue is actually not quite right. The contents of <base> are taken into account, but are not resolved against the document URL
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barnabywalters but apparently you already saw that and fixed it
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Vendan yeap
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kylewm rhiaro: another option is to delegate to twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com to convert twitter urls to mf2 formatted html https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind/blob/master/woodwind/tasks.py#L462
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rhiaro kylewm: ooh, that also is a good option
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rhiaro I'll see which requires minimal changes to my code
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rhiaro I suspect the latter
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kylewm awesome
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barnabywalters activitystreams-unofficial is awesome, shrewdness uses it too
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barnabywalters for cases which php-mf2-shim can’t handle
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Vendan barnabywalters++ for good issue reports
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Loqi barnabywalters has 81 karma
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barnabywalters Vendan++ for mindblowingly speedy fixes for issue reports :)
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Loqi Vendan has 14 karma
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yes I use my twitter shim all the time on my site, that's how my reply contexts are fetched
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Loqi aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 9 hours, 8 minutes ago: are the "file links" broken on indiewebcamp.com? http://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-authorization-process.png#filelinks does not show any, but it's embedded at http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432188058254
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aaronpk mostly i don't trust twitter not to change their HTML arbitrarily
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aaronpk !tell cweiske I don't know what you mean, I see the link to /IndieAuthProtocol in the "File links" section on that page
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk barnabywalters: do you use nginx on your server?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: apache, but I’m considering changing to nginx for a really weird obscure reason to do with custom HTTP methods and audio streaming
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aaronpk i'll give you another reason to switch then :)
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aaronpk when you compile nginx, add this to it: https://github.com/wandenberg/nginx-push-stream-module
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dariusdunlap Don’t know about your custom HTTP methods, but I’m enjoying nginx, fwiw.
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aaronpk it gives you a built-in pub/sub mechanism that uses websockets, eventsource, etc
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dariusdunlap Thanks for that, aaronpk
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barnabywalters wat
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aaronpk basically it means i can make php apps that speak websockets without dealing with any of the weirdness that comes with actually doing websockets in php
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barnabywalters interesting
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tommorris https://letsencrypt.org/ looks pretty nifty - making HTTPS less painful is something that needs to happen
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s really cool! One of the reasons I wanted to use Go was because it was self contained with fewer moving parts, which still stands, but this looks fun as an interim solution
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aaronpk i suppose
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aaronpk i guess i prefer a more modular approach
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barnabywalters I’m like modular approaches to things right up until they mean I have a dozen extra bits of software to compile in a particular way and hook up together in a particular way :)
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Vendan barnabywalters, one issue with go for websockets is it works best when it's directly handling the tcp to the browser
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barnabywalters s/I’m/I
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: I like modular approaches to things right up until they mean I have a dozen extra bits of software to compile in a particular way and hook up together in a particular way :)
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barnabywalters Vendan: i.e. when the go binary which is doing websockets stuff is the same one which is acting as a machines external-facing server, with no reverse proxies inbetween?
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Vendan yeah
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tommorris seeing Vendan making a Go microformats library makes me wanna try Go. :)
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barnabywalters tommorris: yep same here :)
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Vendan lol, the fun bit was I got quite a bit of that microformats library done in less than 24 hours :D
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dariusdunlap Wow. Nice.
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dariusdunlap Anyone have an inside scoop on when https://letsencrypt.org/ will go live? We’re fast approaching “mid-2015”.
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tantek good question. keep asking it. :)
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aaronpk hooray for overly ambitious deadlines ;)
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Vendan I've got a collection of other indieweb libraries too: webmention, distributed indieauth, and PuSH. And there's a micropub endpoint in my main server app, but there's not too much point in pulling that out.
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tommorris dariusdunlap: nope, I only just saw it and it looks exciting though.
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@icedwater RT @matthillco: @techytuppers There are better projects worth our time: https://indiewebcamp.com/ for example. (twitter.com/_/status/601410604151083009)
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@icedwater RT @andy_leap: @techytuppers @matthillco @indie Building my own software on #indieweb and open sourcing every bit of it. (twitter.com/_/status/601410891951706113)
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@LanceCoyote Just added reply contexts that pull from #Microformats or the source's meta tags. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/601411401941266432)
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atomicules.co.uk edited /User:Atomicules.co.uk (+121) (view diff)
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@LanceCoyote I think that's everything for IndieMark Level 2. Time to move on to the fun stuff! #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/601413138710286336)
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tantek ^^^ huh, clearly I need to firm up the definition of Level 3 if folks are breezing right through Levels 1 and 2!
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petermolnar they may just be veteran html gurus from the 90s ;)
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rhiaro dariusdunlap: I heard July for letsencrypt at libreconf a couple of months ago
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dariusdunlap July would be good. :-)
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kylewm !tell acegiak acegiak.net looks down to me
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek since this was a hot topic yesterday, regarding Social Web WG / Harry contacting existing editors of PuSH spec / Google as mentioned http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-19/line/1432051366284
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tantek s/yesterday/two days ago
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Loqi tantek meant to say: since this was a hot topic two days ago, regarding Social Web WG / Harry contacting existing editors of PuSH spec / Google as mentioned http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-19/line/1432051366284
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tantek here is the Social Web WG / Harry action with notes: http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/12
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tantek also related: http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/6
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tantek hmm - so apparently I now have a use-case to support webm auto_embeds
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tantek s/use-case/real world use-case
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Loqi tantek meant to say: hmm - so apparently I now have a real world use-case to support webm auto_embeds
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tantek wonders what a good default size of <video> autoembed would be
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aaronpk i use full width, same width as my note
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aaronpk s
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tantek wonders if context matters
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tantek e.g. for a video embed in a note - note width makes sense
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tantek but a *like* of a video
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tantek could just be a thumbnail
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barnabywalters I habitually change the default cassis youtube auto_embed to 100%
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tantek barnabywalters: independent of context?!?
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barnabywalters tantek: no, when I’m posting notes or articles
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tantek ok I'm going to add class="auto-embed" so you can style that based on context
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barnabywalters tantek: maybe the best solution is to add a video_width parameter to auto_link, so that it doesn’t have to make any assumptions about the context
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barnabywalters adding a class would also be a good approach
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barnabywalters so far there I’ve never come across a place on my site where auto-linked video shouldn’t fill out the width of it’s container
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barnabywalters but I have not implemented video likes yet :)
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aaronpk well hey this is progress https://letsencrypt.org/2015/05/21/draft-le-sa.html
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tantek barnabywalters: see for example how IG compresses a sequential series of likes of photos: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Instagram_followings_activity
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barnabywalters very nice
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barnabywalters if they were videos it would be a bit awkward to show them that small though!
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aaronpk instagram has videos too, how do they do it?
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barnabywalters especially as video elements and other video embeds tend to have a large performance hit
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tantek aaronpk: no difference
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barnabywalters maybe that’s not the case with webm, I have no experience with it
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aaronpk so it shows the thumbnail I assume, not a moving picture?
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tantek aaronpk: note the first examples says "liked 2 posts"
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tantek that means they were a mix of photos and videos
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tantek as opposed to 3rd example "liked 2 photos"
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aaronpk aha
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tantek yes I know, subtle, but I did try to capture a lot o variants in that screenshot :)
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tantek alright, I got the minor cassis updates working locally, now to verify changes and also commit the auto_link vs. embed options to gh as well
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tantek deployed live to my site - now auto_embeds of .webm video work - assuming your browser supports webm
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tantek and if it doesn't, then consider filing bugs on whatever browser you're using, and feel free to use my auto-embedded webm posts as real world examples
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.com/2015/141/f1
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@LanceCoyote I've almost got sending webmentions down! Now I just need a victim I can comment at. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/601444030417776641)
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tantek aaronpk - is your realtime comments display working again?
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aaronpk i don't actually remember
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aaronpk tho i do know it won't work on the SSL version of my site
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aaronpk because the websockets connection is not SSL
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tantek huh - interesting
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aaronpk i'm planning on moving my site over to a new web server with nginx and that push-stream module, so that'll take care of that problem
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tantek is that a limitation of apache?
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aaronpk finally got around to setting up the new server this weekend! so that's progress
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aaronpk well right now i'm running the node.js websockets server on a separate port
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aaronpk and i'd need to make it support SSL and install the SSL cert on it and everything
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aaronpk easier to just use nginx's built-in thing, and one less moving part (no additional node.js process running)
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tantek certainly seems like realtime handling requires a different level of capability or complexity
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tantek and push to gh
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cweiske tantek, not exactly another level of complexity. it's just that you have a permanently open connection for each browser, which does not work with the traditional model of web servers
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Loqi cweiske: KartikPrabhu left you a message 11 hours, 46 minutes ago: I can see the link on both http and https http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-20/line/1432188556673
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Loqi cweiske: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 44 minutes ago: I don't know what you mean, I see the link to /IndieAuthProtocol in the "File links" section on that page http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-21/line/1432221106151
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cweiske which only allow a certain number of connections
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cweiske so you have to have a second process running which allows really many connections at the same time
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cweiske for push
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cweiske or, use the push module in nginx
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cweiske I'd love to have that for apache
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cweiske but it's also possible to implement that in pure php
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cweiske which means another process of course
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cweiske aaronpk, http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-05-21%20001%20Auswahl.png
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cweiske I still get that on http. on https (when I'm logged in), I get the correct link
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aaronpk oh, caching
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aaronpk the logged-out version caches stuff harder
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cweiske "harder" means ... 2 months?
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aaronpk i'm not sure why it didn't remove it from teh cache
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aaronpk it usually does that on page updates
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kylewm.com uploaded /File:twitter-rt-follow-2015-05-21.png "Highlight follow button on RTs in my Twitter stream. I would like to have something like this in Woodwind."
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+151) "/* Itches */ follow button on reposts in Woodwind" (view diff)
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GWG Lunchtime
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GWG snarfed, I have a strange thought. I am still thinking about people like you versus me
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GWG snarfed: If I parse your content, which you mark up, I could populate the fields I use and vice versa
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snarfed GWG: sorry, context pls?
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GWG snarfed: My continual effort not to write anything that locks people into my code
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snarfed sure
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GWG snarfed: So, if I follow that to its logical conclusion, Post Kinds needs an uninstall function
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GWG snarfed: So why am I worrying?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: don't worry be happy!
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GWG snarfed: I want to build tools that not only I use, but others can. So, each version I try to think about it.
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GWG I am not going to give up what I want, but make the best possible version of it
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aaronpk <3 <3 <3 I just used Quill to post a new blog post for realsies
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Vendan it's quite nice
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Vendan I'm not sure about data-uri for images, I'm planning on making a post-process step for my micropub endpoint that pulls the images out, decodes them, and rewrites the tags to point at them
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aaronpk yeah it's sneaky
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aaronpk i'd prefer my site store it as separate files too
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aaronpk but i do like the magic of it just working with no extra effort
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Vendan well, it's quite easy to pull the images out
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aaronpk there's another way to do it though, which would be cleaner
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aaronpk when you upload an image into the editor, the editor actually sends it up to the quill server and the quill server is supposed to return a URL for where the image lives. I'm short-circuiting that by just returning the data URI
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aaronpk so instead, the quill server could attempt to save the image to your micropub endpoint
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aaronpk and if your endpoint accepts it and returns a URL, it'd put that URL right into the markup in the editor
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Vendan that'd be pretty neat, actually
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aaronpk if your endpoint doesn't accept it, then it'd fall back to the data URI and would work as it does now
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aaronpk so the question then is... what's the best way to do raw image/file uploading in micropub, where uploading the image doesn't actually create a photo post
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cweiske the pub in micropub is for publishing, right?
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cweiske then ... there isn't a best way for non-published uploads
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk ha
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LanceyWork not to be confused with micropub, the world's tiniest pub
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gRegorLove Driven to in one's Micro Machine.
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kylewm I have this problem in general with post editors -- you want to upload the image but the post hasn't been created yet, where do you upload hte image?
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Vendan it'd be a little more complex, but we could go the route of email, and do basically a multifile post to the micropub endpoint with the photos all as files
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Vendan that breaks all existing micropub stuff though, which is a little "not nice"
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Vendan tbh, it's not like it's hard to pull the images out from the data-uris...
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aaronpk Vendan: that's exactly how photo posts work in micropub right now :)
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Adding_Files
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Vendan yeahm I know that, hence the "I'm planning on making a post-process step for my micropub endpoint that pulls the images out, decodes them, and rewrites the tags to point at them"
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Vendan oh, you meant the multipart thing
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aaronpk yep
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Vendan so what's wrong with that?
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aaronpk well right now it's creating a full photo post, and the response URL is the HTML page that includes the image
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aaronpk there isn't a concept of creating raw resources in micropub right now
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Vendan why couldn't you just send all the images with the final post?
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aaronpk i could, but i'd need something to put in the <img> tag in the mean time
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aaronpk also that means more work for Quill, but i'm okay with that :)
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Vendan true, and that's going to need post-processing on the receiving end too
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Vendan so we're still at the point of why bother if you don't really gain anything
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aaronpk yeah, seems like the post-processing of updating the <img> tags is gonna be about the same whether the img tag contains an http URL or a data URI
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aaronpk so back to the upload-before-post-is-created option which actually would be easier to handle
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Vendan yeah
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aaronpk personally i wouldn't mind uplaoding all my images to a generic "images" folder, and blog posts can just reference them from there
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KartikPrabhu but upload-before-post-is-created disturbs the flow of post creation no?
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aaronpk my ideal scenario is how i have it now, where the images live in a subfolder of my blog post, so that the files on disk are better organized
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: no, from the user perspective, it would look exactly like it does now with quill
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KartikPrabhu oh I'm comparing with Twitter and G+ :)
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Vendan maybe upload as just a plain image post, then read the resulting url to grab the url of the image itself?
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aaronpk you don't write blog posts on twitter ;)
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KartikPrabhu hmm hmm dang you got me there :P Medium then ;)
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aaronpk Vendan: yeah that's what i'm thinking, but not sure what to name parameters and such, and there would be no h= parameter probably
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KartikPrabhu should read all logs bofore commenting on existing conversations
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KartikPrabhu rhiaro: tantek: also if on python try https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial to convert silo things into mf2 data. Does the API calls for you, though you still need API key and such
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snarfed thanks KartikPrabhu! and not just python. https://twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com/ exposes it as a REST service
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KartikPrabhu also that ^ :)
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snarfed (also https://facebook-activitystreams.appspot.com/ , https://instagram-activitystreams.appspot.com/ )
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@MadeMyDay @maddesigns @yellowled Wie wäre denn eine Kombination von $CMS mit Webmentions, Indiewebstyle? (denke nur laut nach) (twitter.com/_/status/601473541951922177)
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Vendan indiewebstyle!
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snarfed PSA for bridgy users: if you've been missing any facebook responses over the last few weeks, try re-authing. (FB recently granted us a few new permissions.)
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snarfed kylewm++ for that!
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Loqi kylewm has 172 karma
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@fhemberger @helloanselm @MadeMyDay @maddesigns @yellowled Gibt schon ein Kirby-Plugin für Webmentions, Bastian war fleißig: https://github.com/bastianallgeier/kirby-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/601475296341184513)
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kylewm Loqi, translate
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Loqi is done
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Vendan rofl
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@MadeMyDay @webrocker Ging nur darum, ob man auf Kommentarsystem verzichten kann durch Webmentions. Und die Antwort: Man weiß es nicht. (twitter.com/_/status/601487066573217794)
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tantek aaronpk: re: "where uploading the image doesn't actually create a photo post" why not? that is, why not have uploading the image create a private (you only) photo post, and then the article authoring UI allow you to use any photo from your photo posts, or enter a URL of a .jpg/.png./gif etc. to embed?
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tantek you can later of course make the photo post public if you wish
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aaronpk that feels more complicated than I want
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aaronpk and i've never wanted to publish an image i used in an article separately
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tantek where's the complexity?
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tantek from a UI perspective it should work automatically
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aaronpk the additional HTML URL of the photo
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Vendan aaronpk, if it's marked up with mf2, quill should be able to find it automatically
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aaronpk sure, but that means i have to make an HTML page i'm not going to use for anything
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tantek is it not more complex to invent a new kind of upload that's not a post?
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aaronpk i don't know, that's why i haven't decided either way on this yet
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Vendan issue is more how do you mark a post as "non-public" or "unlisted"
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tantek flickr makes an HTML page for every photo you upload
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aaronpk interestingly, wordpress has solved this same problem
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Vendan wordpress is all the same software though
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aaronpk every photo is actually stored as a private post, the same way blog posts are stored
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aaronpk they just have a nice UI on top of it, so the photo picker UI can filter for only those "media" posts
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aaronpk so maybe that is a totally fine way to do it
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tantek aaronpk perhaps we post differently then
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tantek because I post a photos in the moment (IG) all the time, even publicly
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tantek and then later write a longer note about it on my own site
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aaronpk ah yeah
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tantek sometimes "embedding" multiple such photos in a note or blog post
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tantek it is TOTALLY the natural way I do posts with photos
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aaronpk i've sometimes done that too
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aaronpk but i'm talking about a totaly differnt workflow right now, where i am writing a "how-to" guide and embedding screenshots
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tantek this is something instagram really captured from what used to be called moblogging or photomoblogging
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tantek (terms used before iPhone)
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aaronpk the screenshots really don't make sense as standalone posts, so i would never make them public
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tantek aaronpk: hah, that's because you're not Chris Messina
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aaronpk hahaha
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tantek who posts tons of screenshots to Flickr first
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tantek then blogs about them later
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aaronpk i have plenty of those too!
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aaronpk this is *still* a different use case
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aaronpk the quill editor has this thing in it where you can paste a URL and it'll go find the media behind it and embed it nicely
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aaronpk it uses a service, i forget what it's called
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aaronpk embedly maybe
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aaronpk anyway, making a private photo post and pasting in the URL to it would be similar to that idea
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aaronpk and regardless, getting access control into micropub is going to be a good thing to do sooner rather than later
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Vendan maybe do it similar to how syndication is done already?
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aaronpk so far we have a proposal to use the property "to" to specify visibility
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aaronpk (remember micropub should be the inverse of microformats whenever possible)
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KevinMarks The other pattern is using something like imgur and embedding that
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aaronpk i think that is the same pattern
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tantek aaronpk - this isn't full ACL
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tantek this is just you-only
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tantek 100% private
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KevinMarks I suppose it is a silo variant
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tantek a much simpler use-case than ACL, to:, all that stuff
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KevinMarks That's what I was getting at with svgur.com for SVG
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aaronpk tantek: i support private posts right now where i whitelist people who can see it. it was the same workflow/code to make it support visible to only me or to only certain other people
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tantek KevinMarks - true, aaronpk could make another micropub app called "Gallery" which had the sole purpose of being an indieweb imgur replacement ;)
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aaronpk michiel did a bunch of brainstorming at IWC Germany about private/restricted posts
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Vendan happen to put any of it on the wiki?
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aaronpk i think on the indieweb messaging page
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kylewm https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Contributions/Michielbdejong.com
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benborges so i came back from a www.neutrinet.be meeting (associative internet provider at early stage) where we got a presentation of this : http://labriqueinter.net/ and this https://yunohost.org/
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benborges the guys at yunohost are totally motivated to get Known packaged into this box
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benborges i'll see what I can do myself by documenting how it went for me
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benborges and then share it on the wiki
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benborges but seriously, this box is crazy ! just imagine your own indieweb self hosted website at HOME running on a Debian 7 on decent hardware at home
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aaronpk fun!
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benborges "website in a box" this means, we could customize a Known or wordpress instance, tie it to a domain, and have this ready for a gift, it means we could distribute the indieweb phisically, in people's home !!
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benborges since it comes with a VPN service too, it means i have an IP adresse, no matter where i connect my website
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aaronpk that's a clever way of doing that
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benborges indeed
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benborges neutrinet partnership with http://www.fdn.fr/ allows to do this
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benborges FDN is a federated internet provider
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benborges neutrinet is an attempt to launch the same idea but in belgium, using FDN range of IP's and it's infrastructure to the wider net
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benborges anyway, i'm going to sleeep, because tomorrow i want to assemble this little box and SSH into it and actually move one of my domain to the box, spice it up with some indieweb and then see how it goes. this box also solve a big issue to me : email, i'm finally going to selfhost part of my emails, it's going to be fun !
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aaronpk tehe good luck!
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benborges thanks :)
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KevinMarks hm https://medium.com/the-story/medium-is-not-a-publishing-tool-4c3c63fa41d2
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aaronpk “No one moves where they tweet because some other tool has better formatting or profile customization. That’s because a tiny percentage of the value Twitter brings comes from the software itself. It’s all about the network”Š—”Šthe connection with other users and the content they create.”
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aaronpk and ev highlighted this: "the ability for Medium responses to live on their own gives both more motivation to invest in them (as a creator) and more likelihood the significant ones will be found"
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aaronpk which is exactly why we've dropped comment boxes in favor of webmentions, so that responses live on their own
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benborges great point ! comments should be free to live where they are made ! no matter the platform
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aaronpk s/Medium/the Web/ in that whole article
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aaronpk "That’s why I say the Web is not a publishing tool. It’s a network. A network of ideas that build off each other. And people. And GIFs"
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KevinMarks nice
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benborges the follow up to this is make "the network" the social network & i guess that's why #indieweb is for right ?
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KevinMarks quite
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KevinMarks Also, LiveJournal was bigger than Blogger
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KevinMarks especially if you discounted the spam on blogger
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benborges i never got into livejournal, always felt akward in front of it, and at the i was compulsively registering to anything new that was arising, blogger was my first blog, then moved to b2evolution, then wordpress
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benborges at the time*
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benborges i was first a music producer, under CC, in 98 uploading mp3 online and retaining control on this data was not easy task, but that challenge ultimately got me into more web, less music, until it became my job, haha :)
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KevinMarks blogger was my first too, and never used livejournal much.
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KevinMarks https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/puzzled-by-medium-4862de81b8de
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benborges i'm not sure why, but i love readin on medium
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benborges i guess that was the goal, lol
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KevinMarks “How long it would it take for you to teach me how to code as well as you? Like, if I wanted to build my own Medium?”
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KevinMarks https://medium.com/@lotto/what-s-going-on-at-medium-www-buzzfeed-com-c4d47c4bff15
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KevinMarks o_O
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benborges you summarized very well why i never wrote a single line on medium
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KartikPrabhu BS: 3 months
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benborges felt like a prison
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KartikPrabhu I build my site in 3 months while learning python
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benborges jail*
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks posted 'The Web is the network 2 min read Ev Williams wrote an essay...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-web-is-the-network)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks posted 'The Web is the network 2 min read Ev Williams wrote an essay...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-web-is-the-network)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks posted 'The Web is the network 2 min read Ev Williams wrote an essay...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-web-is-the-network)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks posted 'The Web is the network 2 min read Ev Williams wrote an essay...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-web-is-the-network)
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KevinMarks aaronpk: the 'publish now' popup scrolls up under the menubar when the post is taller than the page
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aaronpk o no
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aaronpk hah oh man
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aaronpk thanks
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gRegorLove Haven't logged into Woodwind in a while. Nice change with the "new posts" notification kylewm
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kylewm thanks gRegorLove!