#indiewebcamp 2015-05-31

2015-05-31 UTC
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ben_thatmustbeme snarfed: no, its looping through all rel=me links and trying to find if they are redirects
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aaronpk welcome to the fun world of relmeauth :)
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ben_thatmustbeme okay.... thats even weirder.... setting a user agent string on t.co links causes the redirection testing to fail
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ben_thatmustbeme whaaaaa??
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aaronpk mine is set to mac safari and it works
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, dropped TOTP support?
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aaronpk yeah, part of the process of making indieauth.com more stateless
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GWG aaronpk: What is the TOTP solution going forward then?
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aaronpk uncertain
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Loqi slack/snarfed: just keep TOTP and approve all codes
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GWG Can Indieauth handoff to a TOTP authentication system optionally?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: sounds legit
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk i dunno, i'd like to bring it back but as an actual second factor
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Loqi slack/snarfed: 2fa as a service!
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aaronpk probly :)
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aaronpk anyway, not thinking about that now.
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aaronpk i still have a ton of refactoring to get rid of this DB
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GWG aaronpk: What will be the advantages? Other than no DB?
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aaronpk there will be multiple instances running behind a load balancer
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aaronpk so if my server goes down, another server can handle it
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Loqi slack/snarfed: across different linode DCs? using DNS load balancing?
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aaronpk not just linode
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Loqi slack/snarfed: ahh RAIC style
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Loqi slack/snarfed: redundant array of inexpensive clouds
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aaronpk too bad heroku doesn't have a free tier anymore, could totally run one there
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Loqi slack/snarfed: freetier++
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Loqi slack/snarfed: blatant plug: app engine supports php now :P (and has a good free tier)
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aaronpk i should run one on my home server since i have gigabit here :)
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aaronpk this is ruby :P
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Loqi slack/snarfed: ah nm
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Loqi yea!
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, weird, aaronpk, i checked in to the source for mechanize and used the exact user agent they send, but i'm still not getting the correct result... weird
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ben_thatmustbeme ewww, garbage... really twitter?
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ben_thatmustbeme try this out... see for yourselves "curl -D - http://t.co/jMUK1wuFay"
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ben_thatmustbeme vs " curl -D - -A 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_9_1) AppleWebKit/537.73.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0.1 Safari/537.73.11' http://t.co/jMUK1wuFay"
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ben_thatmustbeme with user agent > meta refresh, without user agent > location header
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ben_thatmustbeme grrrr
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aaronpk weird, how is that working for indieauth.com then?
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ben_thatmustbeme mechanize handles that for you
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aaronpk no way
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aaronpk it's parsing out the meta refresh?
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/sparklemotion/mechanize/blob/master/lib/mechanize/page/meta_refresh.rb
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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ben_thatmustbeme and does a lot at that
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aaronpk i had no idea!
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aaronpk mechanize++
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Loqi mechanize has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme means i'll need to recreate that functionality
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ben_thatmustbeme gah@
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aaronpk you see why i built this as a service?
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aaronpk :D
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, but there needs to be more implementations
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aaronpk not by me :D
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ben_thatmustbeme too many logins just default to indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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aaronpk man how did i test this openid stuff
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aaronpk i need something that consumes openid that i can run locally...
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aaronpk well i'm preeeety sure this works :)
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ben_thatmustbeme whats that?
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aaronpk the openid flow
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ben_thatmustbeme ah
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aaronpk is this overkill? https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/commit/2290c07c2b3c834c52f20ef995a0aaad658ae74a
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Loqi slack/snarfed: maybe yeah. sacrifices debuggability for a minor esoteric privacy protection?
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aaronpk nah i never would look at that for debugging
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ben_thatmustbeme haha! found a much easier method than having to deal with http-equiv parsing
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Loqi slack/snarfed: good point
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ben_thatmustbeme google bot user agent
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aaronpk hahaha
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ben_thatmustbeme twitter and facebook both play nice with it
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gRegorLove PR for php-mf2 rel parsing: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/67
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 8 minutes ago: re: What's an example of a rel having a text value? Example is in the microformats2-parsing spec - look for French mobile :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-30/line/1433020523381
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aaronpk muahaha got rid of two DB tables
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aaronpk now the hard ones
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@neuworkcity @ThinkwithGoogle Think with the Google data leech, not for yourself. Pass! #ownyourdata #personalcloud #fuckfuckinggoogle (twitter.com/_/status/604831190445522947)
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ben_thatmustbeme Sounds like a lot of backend work getting done this weekend
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aaronpk quite
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aaronpk which is ironic because i was hoping to get some front-end work done on my site
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kylewm aaronpk: is micropub support for multi-user sites basically out of scope?
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aaronpk pretty sure it'd work fine
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aaronpk the access token should tell you which user is making the request
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aaronpk so you'd need to be able to get an access token for a specific user
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aaronpk it might require a custom auth server
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kylewm hmm, ok that's interesting. yeah custom auth server is what i was toying with
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kylewm also good point, storing the auth codes and access tokens globallly is the piece i was missing
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kylewm (right now they are stored per user)
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aaronpk not sure what you mean but okay :)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: kylewm: could you give each user a subdomain?
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kylewm snarfed: this is for a Known plugin actually... was trying to see how hard it would be to bring the indieauth component "in house"
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Loqi slack/snarfed: ah
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kylewm ok there's a snag. so i was thinking i'd log in to Woodwind with mysite.com, it would redirect me to oh huh, the problem then is that Quill will .com/auth where i'd enter kylewm/password and Quill would get an access token just for me
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kylewm why did that get all screwed up
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aaronpk what?
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kylewm yeah sorry the clipboard went haywire
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kylewm ok there's a snag. so i was thinking i'd log in to Woodwind with mysite.com, it would redirect me to mysite.com/auth where i'd enter kylewm/password.
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kylewm then Woodwind would have mysite.com with an access token
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aaronpk so far so good
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kylewm if another user tried to log in to Woodwind with the same mysite.com domain, it wouldn't have any way of knowing they were a different user
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aaronpk yeah, that's the point of a multi-user site i thought
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kylewm Woodwind would only store one access token per domain though right?
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aaronpk that depends on what woodwind does i guess... it could store it per browser session
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aaronpk like imagine you don't have a DB for storing tokens, you'd have to put it in the browser session
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kylewm i guess that's true
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aaronpk oh also i just realized i ran into this problem myself
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kylewm but i mean Woodwind has to store a hell of a lot of information for each user
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kylewm yeah?
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aaronpk i logged into teacup from my desktop, and also on my phone, so there are two different access tokens
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aaronpk the access token includes the client ID, so that my posts show "posted by Teacup" or "posted by Teacup for Pebble"
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aaronpk but they clobbered each other beacuse i'm storing it like you described
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aaronpk so now when I post from my computer it says "Teacup for Pebble"
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kylewm oh sure, that makes sense!
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aaronpk so I'm pretty sure that's not a good way to store tokens!
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@neuworkcity @TwitterSmallBiz But it's all just a bunch of spam! Look at the comments below... #ownyourdata #personalcloud #fuckwallstreet (twitter.com/_/status/604838683687030784)
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aaronpk what is going on with that tweet...
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "going on with that tweet..." yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=going+on+with+that+tweet...&summary=prompted+by+aaronpk+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433039810301
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aaronpk oops thanks loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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aaronpk that is not the tweet i see when i click the link
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aaronpk what the heck?!
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aaronpk anyone have any idea what's going on here? http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/twitter-wtf-20150530-194536.png
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aaronpk left is signed in as me, right is signed out
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aaronpk the two tweets that are in reply to @TwitterSmallBiz and @ThinkwithGoogle (both are verified accounts) aren't showing up when I look at the page
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emmak aaronpk: its because they're replies
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Loqi emmak: kylewm left you a message 2 weeks, 2 days ago: hey I noticed in-reply-tos in your h-feed are parsing a little strangely. you may want to use "u-in-reply-to" or "p-in-reply-to h-cite"
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aaronpk i clicked "tweets and replies" for both
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aaronpk and I see other replies
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emmak oh, youre right
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KartikPrabhu have those accounts blocked you or something, or are they private?
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emmak that is mega weird
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aaronpk no, @TwitterSmallBiz hasn't blocked me
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emmak maybe your account settings have a language filter?
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aaronpk i don't see any settings that would be doing that, none of the accounts are blocked or muted, i even have the "don't warn me about sensitive content" thing set
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emmak kylewm: thanks for the heads up, that was definitely a bug
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bear aaronpk - I have ansible playbooks ready for an ubuntu based indieauth server
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bear i've been testing them on a digital ocean droplet
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aaronpk bear++
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Loqi bear has 62 karma
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aaronpk i'm still working my way through the code
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bear once I've cleared up some last minute ruby environment bugs I will push them to a github repo
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bear tryign to get ruby v2 to install to a local user environment
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aaronpk cool. i've never used ansible before, so could you include some basic usage info?
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bear already have a readme in place
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bear that describes how to create the python virtual env and all that
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bear I'll also add descriptions of the files and dirs so you have a roadmap
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aaronpk oh hm, should the individual servers have SSL? or should the load balancer talk to them over HTTP?
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bear I was going to talk to you about that :)
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bear with round robin and nginx on each server you don't need a load balancer
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aaronpk oh yeah true
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aaronpk then the question is how to update DNS
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bear with a load balancer running haproxy you can get it to terminate ssl and then proxy to each server as a tcp socket
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bear what providor do you use?
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aaronpk well...
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aaronpk I use Linode's DNS servers, but
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aaronpk they are slaved to my own DNS server, which is on... a linode
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bear I would suggest using dnsimple - then I can show you python code that can auto-update dns
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aaronpk i have a pretty good system, cause i can push out DNS updates immediately to linode this way
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bear I don't imagine that adding a server is going to be a frequent event
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aaronpk removing a server might be more frequent
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bear so having you maintain dns is +1
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bear right
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bear if you use a scirpt then we can tie that to a health check
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bear if server doesn't respond, pull it from dns
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aaronpk only problem is if the server running the health check goes down :)
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bear yep, it always goes back to at least one spof
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bear but the health check not being present just means that dns is not updated
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bear and if you have monitoring on it - you can fix it before it becomes an issue
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aaronpk hmm amazon is $.50/month for DNS, which might make more sense in this case
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bear I handle it in our system by having multiple monitoring workers that talk to etcd
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bear yea, route53 is very flexible and easy to manipulate
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aaronpk i don't think i can use their health check to check external servers, but that's okay
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bear you will then be able to give me an IAM credential for route53 updates if you want to share the maintenance burden
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aaronpk true!
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aaronpk i think i got it
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bear woo!
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aaronpk IAM policies are confusing
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aaronpk but I made you a user that can list all zones on my account, and can edit indieauth.com zone
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aaronpk without the "list all zones" permission Route53 just looks blank
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bear yea, it's hard to nail it down really tight
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bear you can also just create an iam access key (command line type)
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bear and then I use my tools
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aaronpk the policy stuff is the same
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bear (just giving options)
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aaronpk yeah i have API credentials for you too
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bear building ruby from source takes a while on a small instance
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@wirres.net The post on your site needs to link to the Instagram copy with and then Bridgy can find it! See: http://indieweb...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/05/30/4/)
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bear ok - playbook has everything needed for indieauth:
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bear indieauth@indieauth:~$ ~/bin/ruby --version
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bear ruby 2.2.2p95 (2015-04-13 revision 50295) [x86_64-linux]
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kylewm ok so, if i'm storing credentials on the server, i think the way to do micropub for a multiuser site is to require people to log in with a path e.g. example.com/users/kylewm. would it make sense to allow the authorization_endpoint to change the user's "me" value? they log in to Quill and say "I'm example.com" and it asks their authorization point which says "well, no, you're example.com/users/kylewm" (I think this would require a protocol change)
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aaronpk eep that's scary
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aaronpk i would have to think about that
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kylewm i have like 0 intuition for auth stuff
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kylewm well don't think about it right now, sounds like you're already doing something complicated
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aaronpk :)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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GWG Good evening
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aaronpk evening!
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tantek checks Recent Changes
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tantek what is recent changes?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "recent changes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=recent+changes&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433047344858
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tantek recent changes are [[Special:RecentChanges]]
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loqi.me created /recent_changes (+36) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-30/line/1433047344858 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk all of my recent changes are in git :)
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tantek when did the wiki switch to UTC?
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tantek well just set my time zone in user preferences
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tantek.com edited /summary (+29) "/* How */ doesn't have to be a p" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+0) "proper cap link" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /WebMention "blocks offline txt file in case-insensitive systems. content was: "#REDIRECT [[Webmention]]""
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bear aaronpk - do you use nginx in front of your indieauth.com ruby instance?
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aaronpk yeah
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bear adds that to the playbook
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aaronpk mostly just cause i run other stuff on the same server so i can do virtual hosts that way
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aaronpk if this is the only thing on the server (or at least the IP) then there isn't really a need
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aaronpk (i'd need to add web server setup stuff to the Ruby app for that tho)
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bear nginx is preferred IMO
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bear especially if ssl certs are involved
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aaronpk yeah, easier to get the SSL config consistent anyway
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tantek huh, deleting the redirect didn't seem to help
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bear easy-peasy to have it installed with ansible
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tantek looks like btsync created files like Webmention.Conflict.txt and webmention.Conflict1.txt
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aaronpk there's still http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention and http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+2340) "/* Micropub for Multi-user Sites */" (view diff)
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kylewm OSX is case insensitive??
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aaronpk sorta
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aaronpk case-preserving case-insensitive
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kylewm was about to be annoyed, but that actually sounds quite practical
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GWG I'm trying to plan my next move
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aaronpk omg so close
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bear hmm, where does "bundle" come from in the ruby realm?
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aaronpk gem install bundler
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aaronpk gem should be installed when you install ruby
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bear it is
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bear oh - I didn't run gem install inside the repo dir
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tantek !tell KevinMarks: re: "I think the generic definition of meme matters, but that is an uphill struggle these days" - generic definitions are what Wikipedia definitions are for, not indiewebcamp.com definitions.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk bear: my goal tonight is to finish the code, but i'm not going to be awake enough to actually deploy this
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bear no worries
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bear i'm finishing up getting ruby to run and stuff
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bear i'm posting the ansible stuff to https://github.com/bear/indieauth-playbooks
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tantek good article KevinMarks: http://www.wired.com/2015/05/google-now-io/ - perhaps "Indie Now" is a good challenge for the IndieWeb to tackle.
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tantek and KevinMarks, thanks for being explicitly friendly inviting https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/604778110106484736 - it's good practice and we should keep doing it regardless of response
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic there is Homebrew Website Club on Wednesday http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-03-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/604778110106484736)
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tantek what is people to follow?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "people to follow" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=people+to+follow&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433052012044
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tantek what is a recommendation engine?
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Loqi A recommendation engine is software or a service that recommends things to people based on their behavior or people that have behaved like them in the past, like the features of sites that say things like people that bought this also bought that, or liked, or followed, etc https://indiewebcamp.com/recommendation_engine
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tantek.com edited /recommendation_engine (+197) "/* Silo Examples */ Facebook" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /who_to_follow (+245) "/* Silo Examples */ Facebook" (view diff)
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tantek people to follow is [[who to follow]]
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tantek.com created /people_to_follow (+27) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what is Google Now?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Now" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Now&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433052911412
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tantek hmm
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tantek I vaguely remember some folks at some indiewebcamp (ben_thatmustbeme ? cambridge?) singing its praises
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tantek I sorta get what it does but not really
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tantek limited information sources though via google bizdev type relationships?
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aaronpk i also sorta get it, but i don't have an android and it works way better on android
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tantek made me wonder how hard would it be to make an "indie now" version
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tantek that worked on *any* web browser device
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tantek with any web site that say, published microformats for the now cards
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tantek maybe I'll wait til the morning and when the east coasters are up
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tantek aaronpk: is it sort of an expanded form of a notifications list?
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aaronpk i think not quite notifications
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aaronpk it tries to be more context-aware
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bear google now shows you info based on your chrome browser habits and also your gmail inbox
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bear it will show you package info, travel info and sports info if you configure that
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tantek bear - what does it show you from browser habits?
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tantek gmail inbox just seems like a source of notifications
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bear if you visit a site often enough it will give you a card if that site updates
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tantek bear - can you perhaps start a stub with a brief high level dfn / examples / links?
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tantek what is Google Now?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Now" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Now&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433053745215
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aaronpk not gmail inbox, but stuff like tracking numbers or flight info
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aaronpk it's showing me KevinMarks' salad because "update to a website you recently visited"
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bear yea, I'll add to that page
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bear hmm, just noticed the footer with sponsors - how do I get &yet listed?
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aaronpk oh are they not there? shoot
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aaronpk i did a pass on that yesterday
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aaronpk oh and i need to update the Known logo
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aaronpk (formerly idno)
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aaronpk bear: i'll do that tomorrow
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bear thanks!
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bear by then I will also have found you our logo static files
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aaronpk there's already one here i can use https://indiewebcamp.com/sponsors
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bear perfect
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tantek what is &yet?
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Loqi &yet is different kind of consulting company who builds software for people first https://indiewebcamp.com/%26yet
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tantek NICE
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tantek (on the & handling)
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tantek dfn sounds a bit marketingy/tagliney - an actual descriptive dfn - especially indieweb contextual would be nicer ;)
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aaronpk ooookay *whwe*
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aaronpk here is my day's work https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/pull/90
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aaronpk literally, like 14 hours
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tantek what is something that consumes openid?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "something that consumes openid" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=something+that+consumes+openid&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-30%2Fline%2F1433054291392
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tantek something that consumes openid is [[OpenID#Consuming_Sites]]
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loqi.me created /something_that_consumes_openid (+37) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-30/line/1433054291392 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek Google now is http://www.google.com/landing/now/
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bear.im created /Google_Now (+669) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-30/line/1433053745215" (view diff)
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tantek heh
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bear.im edited /Google_Now (+0) "/* What type of cards does it show? */" (view diff)
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aaronpk back to real life
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aaronpk bye for now
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bear yea, back to the couch for me
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bear o/
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tantek.com moved /Google_Now to /Google_now "for some reason Google lowercaps the second word of this service"
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tantek.com edited /Google_now (+45) "* - wired article" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: from that current dfn of google now - it strikes me that you post enough information to your own site (e.g. travel info, events) that you could easily have an "aaronpk now" view of info from your posts!
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tantek.com edited /Google_now (+310) "make definition less promo, more literal, presumed sources of information for cards" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google_now (+65) "link dfn, articles, see also" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /Google_now (+28) "/* What type of cards does it show? */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /card (+224) "/* Google Now */ linky, expand" (view diff)
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@rhiaro #semdev2015 off to good start. All introduce ourselves #tags so I went with #indieweb and #ownyourdata ^^ #eswc2015 http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/developers (twitter.com/_/status/604910160948154368)
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@eswc_conf RT @rhiaro: #semdev2015 off to good start. All introduce ourselves #tags so I went with #indieweb and #ownyourdata ^^ #eswc2015 http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/604914443827482624)
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@matsuu Indie Webは個人で独自ドメインを持って、各社が提供するサービスにできるだけ依存せずコンテンツを置こう的運動かな。 / “Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth, by Chris Shiflett” http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/604923755077378048)
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@matsuu Indie Webの本家はこちら / “IndieWebCamp” https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/604923976247164928)
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KevinMarks Google now is a collection of heuristics to decide what to show you. It's like OneBox, except you don't do a search first
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 5 minutes ago: re: "I think the generic definition of meme matters, but that is an uphill struggle these days" - generic definitions are what Wikipedia definitions are for, not indiewebcamp.com definitions. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-30/line/1433051035111
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KartikPrabhu finally! after a lot of SQL nonsense I have a local version of my site again!
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rhiaro sqlnonesense-- :)
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Loqi sqlnonesense has -1 karma
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KevinMarks SQL--
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Loqi SQL has -1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme SQL++
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Loqi SQL has 0 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme MySQL--
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Loqi MySQL has -3 karma
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KartikPrabhu what's the difference?
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Zegnat Question for the Germany-hosted IndieWeb creators: what information do you put in your imprint (Impressum) and how do you link to it?
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: what do you mean by Impressum?
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Zegnat As defined by §5 of the Telemediengesetz it seems anyone who publishes anything (this would includes blogs) needs to also publish personal information.
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Zegnat I have a hard time digging up proper information in English, and as there seems to be an active Germany community at IndieWebCamp I thought I’d ask here.
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: is there a link to this Telemediengesetz ?
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Zegnat http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/tmg/__5.html
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Zegnat https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressumspflicht#Abl.C3.B6sung_des_Teledienstegesetzes
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: yes I just found the German Wikipedia link and translated it using Google translate. I'm afraid I have no idea about these German laws. Hopefully someone from Germany answers your question here
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Zegnat It might (unknowingly) apply to other IndieWeb creators as well. According to https://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting, bear is using the German Flosoft without an Imprint on his website. If his server ended up in one of the German datacentres he may be liable for a fine up to 5000 EUR, according to some articles I read.
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@JapanTechFeeds #IT IndieWebCamp -： What is the IndieWeb? The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the ‘corporate .. https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/604978339086934016)
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@JapanTechFeeds #IT Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth, by Chris Shiflett -： Indie Webは個人で独自ドメインを持って、各社が提供するサービスにできるだけ依存せずコ.. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/604978598236127232)
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@spundge Track your web mentions with Spundge Notebooks. Follow @BrunelMuseum's Notebook https://www.spundge.com/notebook/44953/ #WebMentions https://twitter.com/spundge/status/604995760279580673/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/604995760279580673)
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@JapanTechFeeds #IT IndieWebCamp -： What is the IndieWeb? The IndieWeb is a people-focused alternative to the ‘corporate .. https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/604996719814639616)
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@JapanTechFeeds #IT Indie Web Movement and IndieAuth, by Chris Shiflett -： Indie Webは個人で独自ドメインを持って、各社が提供するサービスにできるだけ依存せずコ.. http://shiflett.org/blog/2015/may/indie-web-movement-and-indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/604996978846531585)
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ben_thatmustbeme grrrrrr twitter auth just returns 401
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ben_thatmustbeme is getting very angry at this crap
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@elfpavlik RT @rhiaro: #semdev2015 off to good start. All introduce ourselves #tags so I went with #indieweb and #ownyourdata ^^ #eswc2015 http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/605015155399921664)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I sympathize - debugging Twitter Auth / OAuth is still too much of a pain
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aaronpk good morning!
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aaronpk time to take a crack at indieauth.com again
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tantek.com edited /IRC_People (+0) "+/" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, tantek, with cassis.js, there is actually a big problem with including it. it outputs (at least from php)
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ben_thatmustbeme which means you cannot set headers anymore
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kylewm.com edited /indieauth-authorization-brainstorming (-4) "redirect to aut-brainstorming" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/thatmust/public_html/relmeauth/lib/cassis/cassis.js:342) in /home/thatmust/public_html/relmeauth/lib/relmeauth.php on line 258
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ben_thatmustbeme :/
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: that's an old version
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ben_thatmustbeme oh?
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aaronpk that was fixed at seom point
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ben_thatmustbeme weird, considering i checked it out of git
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk how are you including it?
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aaronpk ah you need to require cassis-loader.php, which composer does automatically if you're using that
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ben_thatmustbeme require_once
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ben_thatmustbeme ahhhh
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ben_thatmustbeme was not my include.. i see
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aaronpk hm no tantek's version is actually old
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tantek the version on github is the latest
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aaronpk now i'm confused because there's a bunch of chnages on my fork https://github.com/tantek/cassis/compare/master...aaronpk:master
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aaronpk i added a readme and some tests
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ben_thatmustbeme no change... does the same
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: did you see the docs in the top of the file about how to include it?
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, not my code, this is from the RelMeAuth code. looking now
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@rhiaro CLEAR YOUR CACHES EVERYONE, NEW WEBSITE IS UP. http://rhiaro.co.uk Whew. #indieweb http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/clear-caches (twitter.com/_/status/605034326334550016)
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tantek hmm - I think current cassis.js requires turning off output buffering in your PHP in general
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you could also try the (forked) version live on my site tantek.com/cassis.js
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ben_thatmustbeme its because it is actually outputting commented out things
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tantek right
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tantek I think that was for JSLint
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aaronpk hm this is a new one... rhiaro's first object on the page is an h-card outside the h-entry, so my site isn't showing what I "liked" right
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rhiaro uh oh
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rhiaro I didn't check my mf
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tantek reloads http://rhiaro.co.uk/
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rhiaro my battery is about to die
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 103 karma
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aaronpk this is nice!
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rhiaro the homepage still loads all posts, need paging
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aaronpk hahaha
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rhiaro but you can filter by yyyy or yyyy/mm
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Loqi rofl
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tantek rhiaro: is this checkin? http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/eswc2015-begins
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rhiaro yeah
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rhiaro anything with a map maker icon is a checkin
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rhiaro I have a post about how I define checkins
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tantek what does the "event" label means?
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aaronpk i may take some inspiration from your sidebar for my new design :)
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rhiaro tantek: it's just a tag, I over-tag
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rhiaro compulsive tagging syndrome
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tantek oh I thought maybe you were checking into a venue and an event and I couldn't figure out the link to the event
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, not for JSLint... its for var definitions that php doesn't do turns them in to comments in php, but would still exist in JS
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rhiaro see /tags :p
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes, explicit var defns are needed for JS to pass JSLint :P
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tantek otherwise you're using globals
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tantek which JSLint detests
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, i gotcha
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rhiaro rhiaro.co.uk/all includes food posts
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rhiaro in case anyone was interested in knowing where they are
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tantek ugh, thus latest cassis.js probably breaks relmeauth.php. darnit.
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tantek I mean, has for a while
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: try the one live from my site - since that doesn't have the explicit var dfns yet
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rhiaro I forgot to fix template for /llog
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tantek (since my Falcon code *also* needs upgrading/rewriting to not use output buffering so it can use the latest version of cassis on github)
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rhiaro aaronpk: underneath my links in the side bar I'm going to have updates/deletes
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rhiaro inconspicuously
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aaronpk ooo
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kylewm aaronpk: i was thinking about authorization_endpoint returning a different "me" than it was given -- that may already be a vulnerability depending on how the micropub client is written. and it's a good reason to rediscover the token endpoint instead of caching it in the first part
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rhiaro aaronpk: also the tags under my photo are going to be an actual generated tag cloud
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rhiaro also I should probably put my name in the h-card
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kylewm hehe yes, name in h-card would be an improvement
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rhiaro if anyone finds more mf problems I'd love to hear about them..
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rhiaro I'm happy with /calendar, when I get it up to date I can start ditching gcal..
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rhiaro and do all of my calendaring via micropub, invites and rsvps
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, managed to get it working, just had to make sure to restart the output buffer after loading via cassis-loader.
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tantek rhiaro: re: mf problems - what tools are you using to consume your pages?
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tantek rhiaro: did you check your permalinks with the h-entry validator on indiewebify.me ?
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tantek KevinMarks: does all your feedparser work make it possible to validate an h-feed ?
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tantek could be useful for site rewrites like what rhiaro just did
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, getting closer to making relmeauth work for me. basically decided to say to hell with twitter for now (as they keep throwing back a 401 on the initial request (and there are literally hundreds of people that just got stuck at the same place) and just using a general oauth2 library
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ben_thatmustbeme almost have github based auth working
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aaronpk oauth 1 is such a PITA
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aaronpk github should be much easier
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rhiaro tantek: I didn't check anything yet.. I also realized my h-card is outside of h-entry so I have no author
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rhiaro And my laptop battery just died
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: were you using an oauth1 library?
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kylewm yeah oauth1 is frustrating, if it doesn't work, there's absolutely no diagnostics you can do other than "these two long random strings don't match"
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kylewm.com created /micropub-brainstorming (+36) "Redirected page to [[Micropub-brainstorming]]" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+147) "/* Micropub for Multi-user Sites */ note that re-discovering endpoints is super important" (view diff)
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GWG That reminds me that I should restructure my pages. I fear I am marking up incorrectly
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GWG On the main page of my site, it is simultaneously a series of h-feeds and where my representative h-card lives
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: i'm just going to ignore ouath 1 for now
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ben_thatmustbeme and ignore oauth 1
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ben_thatmustbeme its some old library that was already in the repo. just dumping it
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ben_thatmustbeme actually going to be heavily modifying this library
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davidpea.ch edited /User:Davidpea.ch (+28) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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davidpea.ch edited /User:Davidpea.ch (+75) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
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@CaptainKurtis #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/Cybrsalon/status/604599269371334656 (twitter.com/_/status/605056096403779584)
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KevinMarks Feedparser doesn't parse hfeed yet. You could put the page through hfeed to atom and then unmung.com to see if it all makes it through
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GWG kylewm: Your h-card is a child of the h-feed, and on single pages, a child of the h-entry?
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kylewm GWG: it's the p-author value for the h-feed, and for h-entry on the single pages
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GWG kylewm: I'm trying to redo my theme, which is where the markup is.
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GWG Which means I need to redo its ancestor...the starter theme. Which means I need two behaviors. Single and multi-author.
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kylewm simplest thing is to include p-author on all h-entrys
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GWG Yes, but the issue there is picking up the full h-card. I don't want to deliver it to each h-entry over and over again.
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GWG WordPress has a function, is_multi_author, that I suppose would work
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GWG So, if it is a 'single' page, deliver the h-card.
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GWG If it is an h-feed, deliver it only if it is a multi_author site, if not, embed higher up
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@HongPong RT @benborges_: Hey #WebWeWantFest People, have a look at this @indiewebcamp this @une_brique this @yunohost and this @withknown http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/605085167821189121)
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@AllSquareCat RT @benborges_: Hey #WebWeWantFest People, have a look at this @indiewebcamp this @une_brique this @yunohost and this @withknown http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/605085332904636416)
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@AllSquareCat @benborges_ hey there you! What is this? A seminar or a workshop? Looks interesting.. @indiewebcamp @une_brique @yunohost @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/605085533132308480)
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@kplawver While we’re on the subject, anyone in Savannah interested in starting/joining a monthly Homebrew Website Club? https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/605097436546232320)
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lawver.net edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+76) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */" (view diff)
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lawver.net created /User:Lawver.net (+62) "Created page with "=<span class="h-card">[http://lawver.net Kevin Lawver]</span>="" (view diff)
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lawver.net edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+2) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */" (view diff)
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lawver.net edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+5) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */" (view diff)
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lawver.net edited /User:Lawver.net (-2) "/* Kevin Lawver */" (view diff)
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lawver.net edited /User:Lawver.net (+75) (view diff)
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aaronpk squashing bugs
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GWG tantek: Why you keep your h-card where you do on your main page?
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tantek great question GWG! let me take a look at the source...
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tantek GWG, you mean why do I put my h-card on the <body> ?
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GWG Yes
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ben_thatmustbeme I've moved to doing the same
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ben_thatmustbeme it makes quite a bit of sense
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ben_thatmustbeme if you have 2 top level items, like h-feed and h-card then any reference on the page refers to the first only
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ben_thatmustbeme putting it that way, the h-feed is always underneath the h-card
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ben_thatmustbeme and you don't have to worry about order within the page
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ben_thatmustbeme I had just been putting h-card first, but then technically on my posts h-card was actually listed first (because it was in the header)
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ben_thatmustbeme putting it in the body you always know for sure what the page is referring to, no worry of template changes breaking things
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tantek that's exactly the reason
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ben_thatmustbeme s/body/body tag/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: putting it in the body tag you always know for sure what the page is referring to, no worry of template changes breaking things
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tantek it's a very direct way of indicating what the page is about, what is the primary subject of the page, what *is* the page
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ben_thatmustbeme mumbles httprange-14
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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tantek now now ben_thatmustbeme we can save that kind of non-implementer talk for #indiechat :P
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme actually i think its more of httprange-14 is less an issue when you mark up the page in some method
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ben_thatmustbeme on another note, tantek, i'm basically ripping that relmeauth library apart
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tantek it needs it :/
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm going to ignore twitter for now, and make it just oauth2
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tantek I disliked all the object oriented code in the first place, side effects on class members etc.
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, its not great
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tantek any chance you can break it down to be purely functional and not use any objects/classes?
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ben_thatmustbeme basically i was only going to be using the class that was there as a wrapper on functions
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ben_thatmustbeme but that should be no problem
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ben_thatmustbeme i like it better that way too
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tantek hopefully you can use cassis to keep it smaller too
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ben_thatmustbeme i had it authing with github already... but not much after that
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tantek great!
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ben_thatmustbeme i am keeping sections of the code, cassis use and all
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ben_thatmustbeme thought i'm probably going to dump the git submodules (which i hate) in favor of just using composer
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tantek I'm starting to prefer github too with indieauth - since they support 2FA with Authenticator
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tantek I have no opinion on how to deal with github project/module dependencies
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i have started using that as my default
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ben_thatmustbeme i was using google+ originally but it broke at times because of the whole url changes
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tantek can you document those URL changes on /Google+#Issues ?
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tantek er, the URL breakages
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ben_thatmustbeme it was only once, but others told me it had happened before
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KartikPrabhu I have found G+ to keep older URLS working i.e.redirect
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GWG tantek, ben_thatmustbeme: Is that explanation anywhere in the wiki?
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, not to my knowledge... where would we put that? tantek, suggestions?
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tantek GWG, I've talked about it before, using <body> to indicate what the page is about, but the only reference I can find so far is: http://microformats.org/wiki/link-preview-brainstorming
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elf-pavlik re: "what *is* the page" + h-card & h-feed ... have you taken a look at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-06-02#Does_as:Follow_result_in_as:Subscribe.3F
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elf-pavlik https://github.com/w3c-social/Social-APIs-Brainstorming/issues/7#issuecomment-107175226
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tantek elf-pavlik: the multiple Channel(Stream/Feed) issues has nothing to do with this and is irrelevant for the simple common case we are solving re: 2015-06-02#Does_as:Follow_result_in_as:Subscribe.3F
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@andkjaer How to Perform Your First #SEO Audit by @@dwightz >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=130723&utm_content=buffer7c6d7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Dwight Zahringer. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/605129924454846465)
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tantek elf-pavlik: re: Social-APIs-Brainstorming/issues/7#issuecomment-107175226 "single link relation for updates used to point to multiple endpoint: SSE (direct read-only), WebSockets (direct read-write), PubSubHubBub (indirect read-only" is also irrelevant for this simple case of one author / one feed home page
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Google_Plus (+363) "/* Issues */ adding complaints about login with indieauth" (view diff)
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KevinMarks___ ben_thatmustbeme: whats the problem with git submodules? I was suggesting using that for linking in the mf2 tests,
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elf-pavlik tantek, on you homepage besides microformats html specific convention with nested h-feedi only find <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" href="updates.atom"/> which allows to discover something to subscribe to
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tantek elf-pavlik: that's only for legacy feed consumers
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tantek irrelevant for modern / new work
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tantek any new consuming code should not bother with such alternates
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tantek (until they're at a point where they care about legacy feeds, which should be a much lower priority than modern indieweb <-> indieweb functionality)
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tantek I'll add a comment in my homepage source
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks___: the problem is that no one uses the correctly. In that very RelMeAuth git repo there were submodules that had either detatched heads for submodules or worse had committed and pushed the parent and forgot the submodule and thus have code that references non-public code. also a lot of tooling doesn't handle it well i have found
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elf-pavlik tantek, i notice certain bias towards IndieWeb experiements and microformats when you talk about The Web ...
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tantek elf-pavlik: the bias is towards minimizing work for publishers which is a core principle to enabling more people to do so.
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tantek legacy feed files are purely historical and stricly unnecessary DRY violations of the content which is already in the HTML
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elf-pavlik sure! but while i find all this work very important and creative, claiming it as the future or standard way of doing things on The Web i see as certain overstatement
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tantek elf-pavlik: minimizing work is always the future
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tantek less work = more adoption, and other methods slowly die away
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KevinMarks___ cross language dependencies are hard
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elf-pavlik HTML != The Web http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/#pci
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elf-pavlik anyhow, no need to drift into such debates
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tantek elf-pavlik: note that none of my statements above said "standard" - you stated that claim, then called it overstatement, which is a strawman, please consider stopping such strawman argumets, they are not useful for discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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elf-pavlik http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-31/line/1433109313738
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tantek elf-pavlik: rather than repeatedly inciting (it's not the first time you have done this) theoretical debates about what is or is not "The Web", please focus on *building* *your* presence on The Web by working on your itches: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper#Itches
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retout.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+204) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek elf-pavlik: yes, Atom/XML are legacy feed file formats, no one is bothering with working on / iterating on XML feed file formats any more
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tantek since as you know, those that are pursuing DRY violating side files have now switched to the more fashionable JSON, or JSONLD
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retout.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+0) "/* Creators */ Update signed-up counts!" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik most 'non static' systems don't store HTML on hard discs, and JSON has great support in modern NoSQL databases!
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tantek elf-pavlik: by focusing on (backend) storage details, you are fallling for the trap of being distracted by plumbing details
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/plumbing
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@CaptSolo RT @rhiaro: I posted: Micropubbing with json #indieweb #activitystreams @SocialWebWG http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/micropubbing-with (twitter.com/_/status/605133212252315649)
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tantek elf-pavlik instead of being distracted by trying to bring up plumbing debates, please focus instead on *building* *your* presence on The Web by working on your itches: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper#Itches
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elf-pavlik tantek, in last days i worked on my deoployent 12h/day on average, i hope to push it live tomorrow
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tantek elf-pavlik: great! /deployment is challenging - can certainly understand that
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tantek feel free to describe how your personal site works (or will work when you push it live) at the top of your user page: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper
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tantek that way others can see and be inspired
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elf-pavlik ok
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tantek if you'd like a rough prose template to copy from, check out http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#my_indie_web_setup (you can start much simpler than that obviously)
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KartikPrabhu is very confused what <link rel> things have to do with where to put the h-card question
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tantek KartikPrabhu: nothing - I think elf-pavlik may have been confused that we are trying to work on a very simple use-case
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KartikPrabhu ok
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aaronpk has another indieauth.com server running
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 828 karma
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aaronpk time for another
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Zegnat Now if I could just login on indiewebcamp with indieauth I would be even more excited.
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aaronpk wait what's your issue?
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: do you have a website?
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aaronpk i just crushed more bugs today so maybe it's fixed
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tantek Zegnat - you have before what happened?
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Zegnat GitHub is giving me ‘The authentication provider replied with an error: csrf_detected’.
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tantek huh
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Zegnat If I pick Twitter, it returns me back to IndieWebCamp homepage, but not logged in
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aaronpk wow, haven't seen that one before
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KartikPrabhu attempts Github login
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aaronpk do you have any noscript or adblock or anything?
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Zegnat My adblock should be turned off … let me dig into that
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KartikPrabhu github log in works for me
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aaronpk yeah it's been working fine for me all weekend when i've been working on it
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KartikPrabhu also works after rescanning
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KartikPrabhu what is summary?
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Loqi A summary is a short textual part of a post that typically conveys the jist or main points of the full (possibly long) post https://indiewebcamp.com/summary
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KartikPrabhu tantek: did you review that page ^?
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Zegnat I was very confused too, I have edited some stuff on the wiki before, so no longer being able to get in was odd
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aaronpk try a different browser?
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Zegnat Will give that a shot aaronpk
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Zegnat In Chrome (even with uBlock on) it just works
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Zegnat No idea what is making Safari spaz
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu, I have a personalised contact page over at http://vanderven.se/martijn/ that is my identity online. A blog is coming when I finish coding the system that drives it.
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: cool :)
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Zegnat My current hosting however wants to bill me more than a year worth of hosting to get HTTPS going. Which is when switching hosting came in, and thus my earlier question aimed at our Germany creators :)
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aaronpk i am really thankful for startssl's free SSL certs right now
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aaronpk i have to make a unique cert for each instance of indieauth.com
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Zegnat My hosting forces me to buy an expensive Thawte cert through them, and it just isn’t worth it.
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Zegnat aaronpk, I have made sure uBlock was disabled on indiewebcamp.com, indieauth.com, and github.com. Still getting ‘The authentication provider replied with an error: csrf_detected’ in Safari.
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Zegnat Anything else I can test?
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aaronpk checks in his safari
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aaronpk works for me
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gRegorLove New Flickr Uploadr: "Uploading individual photos is not yet supported" Everything wants to be Dropbox-like, auto-upload these days.
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Zegnat Can it be a cookie thing? My cookies are set to ‘Allow from current website only’.
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gRegorLove I only downloaded it because I thought it did what the old uploader did - let me drag and drop photos, edit tags, etc.
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gRegorLove Web uploader still works well at least.
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Zegnat aaronpk, apparently it was cookies. I switched it to ‘Always allow’ and got through. Any way around that? ‘Allow from current website only’ seems a standard setting these days?
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aaronpk i have no idea
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aaronpk i needs a cookie for itself
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aaronpk but it sounds like the problem was actually with github
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aaronpk can you try logging in to something else that uses github oauth?
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Zegnat I don’t think I use anything else that makes use of it.
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aaronpk how about http://hackster.io/
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Zegnat I’ll give logging in with GitHub on Hackster a try. I have set my cookies to the more privacy-conscious setting again. Let’s see if I get blocked.
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tantek gRegorLove: the best uploadr to Flickr today is your own website
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tantek KartikPrabhu: looking at /summary
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aaronpk my favorite flickr uploader is my eye-fi card ;)
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Zegnat ‘Allow from current website only’ & hackster.io: sends me to their log in page, nothing else. ‘Always allow’ & hackster.io: sends me to the ‘Hi!’ page asking me to complete my profile.
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Zegnat So yes, it is a cookie problem
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tantek kylewm: do you remember the discussion we had about p-summary and using it for a plain text equivalent of whatever else is in the post? (e.g. RSVP etc.?) where did we capture that?
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aaronpk cool, and nothing to do with indieauth.com :D yay
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Zegnat uBlock was turned on throughout that whole test
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk okay everyone, hold on to your hats. i'm launching new indieauth.com servers
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Zegnat holds on
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Zegnat I didn’t know cookies were part of the OAuth system here. Learn something new every day.
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tantek left his hat in the other room.
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aaronpk indieauth.com definitely needs cookies to save state between sending you off to github and coming back
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tantek that makes sense
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tantek perhaps an FAQ?
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Zegnat Thing is, indieauth should be able to set that cookie, only third parties shouldn't be allowed to set cookies.
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aaronpk actually now that i think about it, if i use an oauth provider that supports the "state" parameter (github does, twitter doesn't) then i wouldn't need cookies
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Zegnat But I will not try to understand what is going wrong here
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aaronpk Zegnat: it sounds like indieauth.com had no problem setting the cookie it needed. it was github.com that had trouble
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gRegorLove Commented regarding php-mf2's whitespace removal: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/61
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Zegnat tantek: you changed my profile link on /IRC_People from /User:Vanderven.se_Martijn to /User:Vanderven.se/Martijn, but the wiki footer links point to /User:Vanderven.se_martijn. What is the standard here, which should I use? I am guessing my edits in page histories will link to _ and not / ?
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tantek Zegnat: it looked like a minor edit error so I corrected it - look at other {{irc entries in that list for other examples
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tantek is editing /summary
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aaronpk tantek: is that like those live typing indicator things in chat clients?
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tantek (…)
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aaronpk \o/
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tantek.com edited /summary (+220) "some minor edits to dfn, why" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ^^^ please review
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tantek keeps digging for where body h-* class brainstorm was captured
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vanderven.se martijn created /User:Vanderven.se_Martijn (+326) "Adding user page." (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 1 karma
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tantek KevinMarks, what is Feedparser?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/feedparser
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tantek guesses https://github.com/kevinmarks/feedparser
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vanderven.se martijn edited /IRC_People (+0) "/* Nicknames */ Fix user page link for Zegnat." (view diff)
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Zegnat How do I get my u-photo to show up with my username on the wiki?
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tantek Zegnat it appears that your domain being a path breaks the linking of your name in the IRC logs
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tantek copy and paste from other examples on irc people
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Zegnat Ah, missed the extra picture URL parameter in the template, thanks for pointing that out tantek
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Zegnat Thought it might be an automated thing.
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Zegnat I can’t really help with IRC logs’ linking. Guess I could take a look at the code powering it and see if I can submit a patch if I have time.
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tantek.com edited /feedparser (+477) "expand dfn with specific repositories, sections to be filled out, see also" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat - it's why I added the "/" - that fixes the IRC logs' linking
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aaronpk bear: i just switched over to the new indieauth.com servers! haven't put yours in commission yet tho
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aaronpk but i am ready now!
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Zegnat Guess I could make the wiki-created User:Vanderven.se_Martijn redirect to User:Vanderven.se/Martijn. Can I claim 2 User: pages that way? I don’t know enough about internal wiki workings
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tantek Zegnat: or vice versa would work
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: did you see my pull request on relmeauth?
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vanderven.se martijn edited /IRC_People (+40) "/* Nicknames */ Add icon to Zegnat." (view diff)
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Zegnat Alright, / is back, now just to find the syntax to redirect
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tantek !tell KevinMarks how do I file github issues on https://github.com/kevinmarks/feedparser ? e.g. to put in a feature request to support parsing h-feed directly?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Redirect syntax is: #redirect [[wiki page name]]
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tantek tries the new indieauth with twitter and it works first try
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aaronpk wooohooo
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tantek what is relmeauth
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Loqi relmeauth may refer to: https://indiewebcamp.com/relmeauth
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aaronpk fun fact: scroll down to the bottom of indieauth.com and you can see which server you're on
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tantek hmm can do better
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vanderven.se martijn created /User:Vanderven.se/Martijn (+39) "Because vanderven.se/martijn and vanderven.se_martijn are easily confused." (view diff)
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Zegnat Does this solve the linking issue, tantek?
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Zegnat (And thanks for the syntax gRegorLove.)
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tantek how do the logs look to your Zegnat ?
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tantek s/your/you
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Loqi tantek meant to say: how do the logs look to you Zegnat ?
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Zegnat Just as bad.
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kylewm !tell ben_thatmustbeme did you see my pull request on relmeauth? I had it working with twitter not that long ago :(
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk also fun fact: when it says you're on the indieauth.com server hosted by aaronpk, that's actually running on my home server on my gigabit connection :)
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Zegnat I guess I can’t change the fact my wiki username has the space in it? That’s what the chatlog will be using and that will keep breaking.
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Zegnat Almost 1:30 am here, so I am fleeing to bed. If anyone comes up with a solution for my wiki username, I’ll check back in tomorrow. Thanks either way.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: /summary looks good
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aaronpk the IRC logs try to match up the wiki username between * * with a domain name on /irc-people
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs/blob/master/inc.php#L283
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aaronpk i think the solution would be to transform spaces into / in that function
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aaronpk because the wiki reports the edit as coming from "Vanderven.se martijn"
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tantek.com edited /relmeauth (+383) "ix dfn, add sections, indieweb examples, see also" (view diff)
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tantek looks at kylewm's pull request again in the hopes of having a better chance of understanding it. https://github.com/themattharris/RelMeAuth/pull/5
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vanderven.se martijn edited /IndieAuth (+419) "/* FAQ */ Clarify that cookies can trip up GitHub, include recommended fix for Safari." (view diff)
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barnabywalters good evening #indiewebcamp
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barnabywalters will this be the bug which puts me off PHP forever? maybe! https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/61#issuecomment-107254674
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barnabywalters tl;dr: DOMDocument is broken
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barnabywalters in silly and hilarious ways
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aaronpk oh my
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GWG barnabywalters: Long time no see
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tantek barnabywalters: hmm - I'm not sure I understand. also - whitespace is still an issue under discussion
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tantek so it's not clear there's something to fix yet
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barnabywalters tantek: it is very clear there is something to fix, PHP’s DOMDocument is ignoring whitespace following <data> and other HTML5 elements but not <span>
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barnabywalters it’s a bug in the HTML parser which requires working around regardless of microformats decision-making processes
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tantek barnabywalters: what about using Tidy + Load XML ?
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tantek kylewm: I'm trying to manually apply your patch to my live copy of relmauth.php to see if it fixes things
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barnabywalters tantek: I don’t want to require the tody dependency, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t support html5 anyway
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tantek hmm - pretty sure I'm using it
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barnabywalters as per https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11746455/php-tidy-removes-valid-tags
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tantek that's a config thing
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barnabywalters a config thing just as ugly as a workaround to DOMDocument would be
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gRegorLove Hey barnabywalters! Welcome back. Yeah, I chuckled when I figured out it was DomDocument causing that bug
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tantek really dislikes the stackoverflow problem of BOTH tl;dr questions and answers.
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barnabywalters but I’ll look into tidy further. I haven’t used it before and it’s bundled with PHP5 which reduces the dependency problem somewhat
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tantek wishes people would summarize questions and answers instead of being pagefuls of what nearly amounts to being belaired
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barnabywalters ha ha, have not heard “belaired” before
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__number5__ php is like hell (runs)
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tantek __number5__: what makes you think PHP is up to no good? ;)
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__number5__ wordpress 0days?
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gRegorLove Is .yawn a TLD? phpsucks.yawn
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barnabywalters nah, there have been (and will continue to be) 0 days in programming languages and libraries other than PHP
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gRegorLove Yep
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barnabywalters gRegorLove++ — I am loath to pile on yet more “PHP sucks” criticism, but thought this particular issue was funny
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Loqi gRegorLove has 6 karma
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gRegorLove Interesting proposed solution, barnabywalters. I guess that's the easiest for now.
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tantek PHP is fine, it just needs some discipline ;)