#indiewebcamp 2015-06-04

2015-06-04 UTC
jjuran, ben_thatmustbeme, KartikPrabhu, benwerd, KevinMarks, bengo, snarfed, tantek and jjuran__ joined the channel
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@BillSeitz @holden @WardCunningham IndieWeb people do something similar. BlogComment engines won't embed, ppl won't follow link. (generally) (twitter.com/_/status/606261940533366784)
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@benwerd On my way to Homebrew Website Club at @Mozilla SF. If you're in the area, it's not too late to join us! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606267844662140928)
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aaronpk tantek: have you thought about the difference on posts between the date a post was published at a URL vs date authorred? this is relevant to offline editing of posts
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aaronpk e.g. i write a post on my phone while offline, and then 2 hours later I get network and push it to my server
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tantek yes - have definitely thought about it
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tantek You may be looking for a notion of dt-created
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tantek I was privately experimenting with that a while ago
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tantek didn't bother mentioning it since it was purely experimental, but since you asked :)
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bear.im created /XSF (+1261) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-03/line/1433356429452" (view diff)
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@t @BillSeitz @holden @WardCunningham IndieWeb approach: 1 reply from your own site 2 POSSE e.g. Twitter 3 ... http://tantek.com/2015/154/t2/indieweb-ownyourcomments (twitter.com/_/status/606270033686196224)
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bear.im edited /XSF (-138) "duplicate link" (view diff)
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aaronpk okay, so I would totally put two timestamps on my posts (if they were different), created vs published
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aaronpk I would expect that if you visit my site, you see the posts in created order
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aaronpk but... if I suddenly publish a backlog of offline posts, you'd expect to see them at the top of a reader, right?
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@robmyers RT @benwerd: On my way to Homebrew Website Club at @Mozilla SF. If you're in the area, it's not too late to join us! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606271167091990529)
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bear.im created /stanza.io (+476) "prompted by bear" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - depends - the UX of created vs published vs updated order is definitely challenging and worthy of experimentation!
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aaronpk i think i have an idea for an experiment
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aaronpk and... we have enough infrastructure in place that i can test it out on everyone without anyone needing to change anything :D
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bear.im created /xmpp-ftw (+542) "prompted by bear" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: welcome to Homebrew Website Club and Mozilla (twitter.com/_/status/606272789503442945)
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bear.im edited /stanza.io (+40) "add resource links" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /xmpp-ftw (+4) "fix resource link" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: on http://tantek.com I got one thing done - when I post an RSVP to an event, I now use bridgy publish to POSSE that to FB (twitter.com/_/status/606273246414151680)
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bear.im edited /XMPP (+31) "add resource links" (view diff)
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bear stops gardening during the meetup
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I write in either cassis or PHP - cassis is the intersection of javascript and PHP, I made code that runs in both (twitter.com/_/status/606273798061584384)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: search on my site has been a pain because I was using MySQL full text indexes, which prevents stopwords like 'known' (twitter.com/_/status/606274214350495746)
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@ak2webd3 RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: search on my site has been a pain because I was using MySQL full text indexes, which prevents stopwords… (twitter.com/_/status/606274298727141377)
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Loqi [bridgy] Ramón Woo RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-03-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/674781485961103#10153351019364812)
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aaronpk hahahaha
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I was trying to link to a hashtag with 2 characters, and soeon else was searching for god on their site (twitter.com/_/status/606274361159524352)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: so now you can use known to find God (twitter.com/_/status/606274485549977601)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I've also been extracting bootstrap 2 from the site so we can replace it with bootstrap 3 or foundation or polymer (twitter.com/_/status/606274834142777344)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: search has been a pain point for me - google search has been less specific over time (twitter.com/_/status/606274987272634368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bengo: I am a fan of elasticsearch (in reference to http://ranker.ninja/js/SearchOverlay.js) (twitter.com/_/status/606275419172675584)
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benwerd (We're planning on adding ElasticSearch bindings to Convoy, and then making that available to all IndieWeb projects)
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benwerd (Not imminent though)
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jjuran @joshuajuran, jjuran.org: I'm designing a new programming language, codenamed "V": vcode.org
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: http://www.vcode.org/ is the new site that I just launched for my new programming language V (twitter.com/_/status/606276191864135682)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: elasticsearch++
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: search has been a pain point for me - google search has been less specific over time (twitter.com/_/status/606276373531869184)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @joshuajuran: freemount is a remote file access protocol that runs over ssh, which works well with virtual file systems (twitter.com/_/status/606276469392850945)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bengo: I got some microprocessors recently, so am experimenting with webservers running on small CPUs in your house (twitter.com/_/status/606276635969617920)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: I am a fan of elasticsearch (in reference to http://ranker.ninja/js/SearchOverlay.js) (twitter.com/_/status/606276707222319104)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: there is a similar project called unhosted that stores users data in their dropbox accounts (twitter.com/_/status/606277030662012928)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: http://www.vcode.org/ is the new site that I just launched for my new programming language V (twitter.com/_/status/606277168172130304)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bengo: Google announced the physical web repo so that small devices that could broadcast their URL to nearby devices (twitter.com/_/status/606277168994381824)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: freemount is a remote file access protocol that runs over ssh, which works well with virtual file s… (twitter.com/_/status/606277336355315712)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Scott Jensen is behind the physical web ideas at Google (twitter.com/_/status/606277338599284736)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: I got some microprocessors recently, so am experimenting with webservers running on small CPUs in your ho… (twitter.com/_/status/606277444971040768)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bengo: you could make a raspberry pi attached to a tv that hears the devices URL and greets you by name by parsing hcard (twitter.com/_/status/606277616673406977)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: there is a similar project called unhosted that stores users data in their dropbox accounts (twitter.com/_/status/606277694389493760)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: Google announced the physical web repo so that small devices that could broadcast their URL to nearby dev… (twitter.com/_/status/606277776644042752)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @bengo: I ran into Dan Gillmor at the annotation workshop in NYC recently, but there is a tension between company and journalist (twitter.com/_/status/606277805811376128)
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@kylewmahan RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: so now you can use known to find God (twitter.com/_/status/606277818771578880)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: Scott Jensen is behind the physical web ideas at Google (twitter.com/_/status/606277943950581760)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: there is a big graveyard of web annotation projects (twitter.com/_/status/606278013311963136)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: you could make a raspberry pi attached to a tv that hears the devices URL and greets you by name by parsi… (twitter.com/_/status/606278068173307904)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: I ran into Dan Gillmor at the annotation workshop in NYC recently, but there is a tension between company… (twitter.com/_/status/606278150096437248)
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@rogerhoward RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: there is a big graveyard of web annotation projects (twitter.com/_/status/606278159240183808)
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benwerd (Microsoft's new browser is called Edge, which has annotations built-in)
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@Eliservescent RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: there is a big graveyard of web annotation projects (twitter.com/_/status/606278393601093632)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KuraFire: Hi I'm Faruk designer/developer made modernizr - has anyone written here an html5 app for windows 8? (twitter.com/_/status/606278440908685312)
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@aaronpk @kevinmarks @t As well as a past IndieWebCamp attendee! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606278466846265344)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@kevinmarks @t As well as a past IndieWebCamp attendee! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List #indieweb' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/06/03/1/indieweb)
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JustinO the instant local site search: insert the tag <script src="http://ranking.ninja"/> or the script: (function(){d=document;s=d.createElement('script');s.src="http://ranking.ninja";d.head.appendChild(s)})()
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JustinO the elastic server isn't alive at the moment though
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: all of our websites are html5 apps, so why not have them on the windows store? (twitter.com/_/status/606278822951034880)
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JustinO parts of the ui is visible
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KuraFire: the goal it to make it possible to sell web apps to Windows Store users, but have not seen much uptake (twitter.com/_/status/606278977334951936)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: this sounds a lot like the firefox micromarketplace (as well as the chrome store) (twitter.com/_/status/606279283682734080)
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kylewm woo i just got your home indieauth server aaronpk :)
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk maybe i should change it to say "at aaronpk's house" :)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: everyone has their own manifest format - chrome, firefox and windows store because the w3c standard isn't final yet (twitter.com/_/status/606279443691225088)
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@ShirlLacsamana RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: I ran into Dan Gillmor at the annotation workshop in NYC recently, but there is a tension between company… (twitter.com/_/status/606279457113051136)
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JustinO And here's a demo of the stage of techcrunch disrupt hackathon: https://www.facebook.com/techcrunch/videos/10152740001132952/
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tantek KevinMarks: s/micromarketplace/marketplace
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: I work on brid.gy with @kylewmahan (twitter.com/_/status/606279583613243392)
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acegiak yay, I fixed my ssl certificate chain!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: one thing that resonated with me was that using the indieweb from your phone does not work well now- no great setup (twitter.com/_/status/606279822738915329)
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KevinMarks where's snarfed's post?
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KevinMarks yay acegiak
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@seh "@kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: search has been a pain point for me - google search has been less specific over time" #ThisOMGTHIS (twitter.com/_/status/606280871642075136)
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@MavMitchl Interesting speech by Tim Cook on privacy, encryption & your data for sale. #ownyourdata http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/02/apples-tim-cook-delivers-blistering-speech-on-encryption-privacy/ (twitter.com/_/status/606282218281926659)
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@chrismessina Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606284145082400768)
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@benadida RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606285183810211840)
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@kragen RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: one thing that resonated with me was that using the indieweb from your phone does not work well now- … (twitter.com/_/status/606285671356055552)
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JustinO Photo from today: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y86qdt5mqvgkyif/AAABc0BOoqTliuF6-v-ZNrs-a/?dl=0&preview=2015-06-03-HWC-SF.jpg
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@incanus77 RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606289364159635457)
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@mshook RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @bengo: Google announced the physical web repo so that small devices that could broadcast their URL to nearby dev… (twitter.com/_/status/606290015220604929)
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@dinodaizovi RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606291139608453122)
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@AppleTwD RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606291280725999616)
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@danebaker RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606293786310942720)
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tantek a bit misleading, but the original point is sound
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tantek tl;dr Gruber quoting Thomas Ricker: "If Apple truly cares about our privacy then it should stop talking about how important it is and start building superior cloud-based services we want to use — then it can protect us."
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tantek I believe the *current* indieweb analogy would be:
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tantek If the IndieWeb truly cares about us owning our data then it should stop talking about how important it is and start building superior products and services we want to use — then it can help us own our data.
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aaronpk all I hear is "selfdogfood" :)
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@bearroast RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606294799977570304)
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tantek aaronpk++ :)
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Loqi aaronpk has 835 karma
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tantek and we're closing up for the night here at HWC SF.
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Loqi slack/snarfed: so aaronpk bret et al, what'd you all hack on tonight?
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aaronpk bret was working on micropub and a token endpoint
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aaronpk i've been cleaning up technical debt on my website and preparing to change the URL structure
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aaronpk indiewebcat.com was trying to be helpful by chasing all the sparkly ball monsters away from us
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KevinMarks should I try recreating this post in quill editor? https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c
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aaronpk lots of html embedding!
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KevinMarks yes, though the YT inlining should work
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aaronpk it doesn't have a way to embed arbitrary HTML right now, but it will handle youtube/vimeo/instagram/etc embeds by URL
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aaronpk the plugin I used is using http://embed.ly/ API
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KevinMarks which is what I did in medium
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KevinMarks does that do soundcloud?
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@kevinmarks Note's on tonights Homebrew Website Club on my website at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-06-03.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606317960500645889)
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aaronpk oh right, medium is using embed.ly too
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aaronpk so probably yes
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KevinMarks OK, I'll try it.
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KevinMarks giant data urls coming up
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aaronpk haha
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KevinMarks wow, whats that progress bar effect on the gif?
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aaronpk i have no idea what you're talking about
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KevinMarks I uploaded a gif, and it did a left to right decolouring as it converted?
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aaronpk whoa
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KevinMarks hm, pasted a bit more text and all the images vanished
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aaronpk oh no
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aaronpk i wonder if it hit localstorage limits
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KevinMarks maybe I hit the 5mb limit
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KevinMarks I can jpeg some of these pngs
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KevinMarks (or you could but, guessing when to is hard)
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aaronpk i wonder if something like "if jpeg size < png size use jpeg else use png"
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KevinMarks can you make jpg with canvas?
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KevinMarks gif is tricker as you might lose the animation
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KevinMarks ah, they went away again
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KevinMarks what's the limit
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aaronpk well you're always at risk of hitting the 5mb limit even if you resize things, so maybe the solution is to not store the photos in localstorage after all
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KevinMarks can you ask for more?
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aaronpk i think so, don't know how
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aaronpk apparently not
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aaronpk http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6276282/how-can-i-request-an-increase-to-the-html5-localstorage-size-on-ipad-like-the-f
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KevinMarks yikes: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/offline/quota-research/
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KevinMarks that says 10mb for chrome
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aaronpk this is my alternate plan that would avoid putting images in data URIs https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/13
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KevinMarks if I put an image url will it embed that?
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KevinMarks I cna just hotlink the medium ones
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aaronpk i think so?
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KevinMarks :D
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KevinMarks medium pretty prints their exported css but compacts their html
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KevinMarks and they convert the gifs to mp4
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aaronpk yeah, gif is a terrible animation format
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KevinMarks right, but they don't even put a fallback in
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aaronpk oh :/
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KevinMarks "Your browser does not support the video tag." inside the <video> tag
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KevinMarks even though it is in their CDN
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KevinMarks sloppy
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KevinMarks can you make the insert buttons and text less pale grey?
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aaronpk yes found it
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KevinMarks hm, they mung the youtube links as well
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aaronpk oh no i forgot how to make my browser forget the appcache version
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk oh right the appcache file has to return 404, and then the browser will go fetch things on the next request
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KevinMarks hm, no it just deleted the embeds again when I put text after the 3rd video
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KevinMarks so something is overflowing
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aaronpk weird
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aaronpk this is a problem only because i'm saving drafts in localstorage, right?
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KevinMarks maybe
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KevinMarks do you save it and them write it back to the fields?
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aaronpk no, it just saves it
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KevinMarks looks like it's in INdexedDB
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KevinMarks the chrome console doesn't give a count of bytes used in indexeddb
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KevinMarks hm, it worked when I hotlinked the gif and inlined the jpg versions of the pngs http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing
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KevinMarks though the soundcloud embed looks a bit dodgy
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KevinMarks i'd try with silo.pub too, but quill loses the edit after posting
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@joshuajuran RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: http://www.vcode.org/ is the new site that I just launched for my new programming language V (twitter.com/_/status/606329425920028672)
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@joshuajuran RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: freemount is a remote file access protocol that runs over ssh, which works well with virtual file s… (twitter.com/_/status/606329453615054848)
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KevinMarks it would be nice to swap out my auth and repost
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aaronpk wow that post makes my computer grind to a halt
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@tdfischer_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: http://www.vcode.org/ is the new site that I just launched for my new programming language V (twitter.com/_/status/606330275157569537)
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@tdfischer_ RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @joshuajuran: freemount is a remote file access protocol that runs over ssh, which works well with virtual file s… (twitter.com/_/status/606330281910366208)
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KevinMarks heh
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KevinMarks the gif, the 4 youtube iframes
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KevinMarks that gif does seem to max all 4 cpus
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KevinMarks which is I suppose the rationale for making it an mp4 so the gpu can take over
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@kevinmarks The uncanny valley of video editing and taxonomy http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing (also on https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c ) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/606332364009181184)
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@emergecode RT @kevinmarks: The uncanny valley of video editing and taxonomy http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing (also on https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c ) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/606332471882489856)
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@Annemcx RT @kevinmarks: The uncanny valley of video editing and taxonomy http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing (also on https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c ) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/606332471781785600)
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@CaptainKurtis Put Politwoops on the #indieweb! #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/konklone/status/606269830312828928 (twitter.com/_/status/606332800665423872)
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@jnettesheim RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606332971910610944)
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@TempieLanehart RT @kevinmarks: The uncanny valley of video editing and taxonomy http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing (also on https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c ) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/606333301989769216)
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KevinMarks now wondering if I should write an "Apple can't be trusted' post about iDisk
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jjuran aaronpk: "self-dogfooding" implies the existence of non-self-dogfooding, which is a contradiction in terms.
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aaronpk what is selfdogfooding?
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Loqi selfdogfood is a stronger form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, as an aspect of your primary online identity, day to day — if you're not willing to use your creation on your own primary personal website, why should anyone else use it on their primary personal website? https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfooding
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KevinMarks I wrote this http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/04/hosting-and-impermanence.html
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KevinMarks and previously
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KevinMarks http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/04/apple-is-holding-my-data-hostage.html
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KevinMarks how Apple makes me feel: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/04/apple-is-holding-my-data-hostage.html
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KevinMarks er http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/04/apple-is-holding-my-data-hostage.html
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KevinMarks dammit
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KevinMarks http://dilbert.com/strip/2002-06-08
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KevinMarks http://dilbert.com/strip/2000-12-30
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@thegrugq RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606357607436058625)
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petermolnar good morning
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KevinMarks morning
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jjuran aaronpk: Non-self-dogfooding is a practice in certain companies that heard that "eating one's own dogfood" is a good idea, and implement it by conscripting employees throughout the company as beta testers for a single group's project.
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jjuran My point is that that's counter to the very concept.
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jjuran And so "self-dogfooding" really means "dogfooding".
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jjuran Kind of like "unconditional love" phrased as such implies the existence of "conditional love".
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KartikPrabhu what is dog-fooding?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dog-fooding" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=dog-fooding&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-04%2Fline%2F1433407969166
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KartikPrabhu what is dogfooding?
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Loqi dogfood in the context of the indieweb, refers to the software practice of "eating your own dog food" but in particular with using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, day to day https://indiewebcamp.com/dogfooding
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KartikPrabhu what is self-dogfooding
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Loqi selfdogfood is a stronger form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, as an aspect of your primary online identity, day to day — if you're not willing to use your creation on your own primary personal website, why should anyone else use it on their primary personal website? https://indiewebcamp.com/self-dogfooding
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KartikPrabhu dog-fooding is /dogfooding
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loqi.me created /dog-fooding (+23) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-04/line/1433407969166 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu the definitions of both slef-dogfooding and dogfooding sound the same
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jjuran__ My point exactly. :-)
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KartikPrabhu jjuran__: better to point it out directly on the wiki rather than give examples of "love"
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+126) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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@daveduchene RT @chrismessina: Whether Apple or the #indieweb… spot on: privacy is icing, not the thing itself: https://twitter.com/daringfireball/status/606209337875267584 #datapositive (twitter.com/_/status/606401036618727424)
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jjuran KevinMarks: The new data integrity model is "eventually nonexistent".
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rhiaro !tell aaronpk: what's up with "This auth server cannot be used to authenticate to itself"? http://rhiaro.co.uk/stash/weirdindieautherror.png Also Quill wouldn't load this page at all (I was trying to demo micropub...)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro !tell aaronpk (auth still worked for teacup by the way)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /scope (+417) "/* Scopes used by Silos */ added Google+" (view diff)
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@jarofgreen Did a @blipfoto plugin for @withknown https://github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/WithKnown-Blipfoto ... Hi #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606413112330305536)
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cweiske rhiaro, you do not specify an auth server
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cweiske you link pages that represent you
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cweiske ah. you mean
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cweiske <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="https://indieauth.com/auth" />
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cweiske yep, aaronpk should filter that out
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rhiaro Hmm seems like my micropub endpoint might have broken by itself over the last two hours of me *not touching it*
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rhiaro Sigh
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cweiske aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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cweiske http://gitblit.com/federation.html
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cweiske finally
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cweiske federated git repository web interface
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cweiske just what phorkie does with pastes
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petermolnar sometimes I really hate WordPress. yes, please, emoji fallback support via freakin' javascripts, but the media management is still lack remove-leftovers feature for example...
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benjamin.parry.is edited /2015/Brighton (+317) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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benjamin.parry.is edited /2015/Brighton (+0) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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@benjaminparry Just added myself to the Brighton @IndieWebCampUK guest list. 11-12th July at @68MiddleSt, more details here https://adactio.com/journal/9043 (twitter.com/_/status/606446732961042433)
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+170) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (-170) "Undo revision 19753 by [[Special:Contributions/Adactio.com|Adactio.com]] ([[User talk:Adactio.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+190) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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glennjones.net edited /2015/Brighton (+169) "/* Added myself to Indie Web Camp Brighton 2015 */" (view diff)
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MMN-o Hello from GNU social :)
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MMN-o I just thought I would log in to the indiewebcamp wiki and was met with the IndieAuth login prompt
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MMN-o which apparently is explicitly trying to avoid OpenID, as I understand it from https://indieauth.com/ ?
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petermolnar I'd answer it if I'd know the answer
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petermolnar you'll need someone deeper into indieauth
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cweiske yep. it was invented as a "light-weight alternative" to openid
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cweiske haha
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Loqi rofl
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cweiske but I made an indieauth-openid-proxy
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cweiske so that I still can login via openid
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MMN-o cweiske: But I guess it won't automagically work for stuff like the wiki login?
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cweiske it works if you link it from your homepage
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cweiske then you enter your homepage just like you would for openid
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cweiske MMN-o, add <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/" /> to your website's <head>
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MMN-o cweiske: Ah, alright. So if I make for example my profile page https://social.umeahackerspace.se/mmn have a rel="me" to the endpoint
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cweiske not rel=me
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cweiske but rel=authorization_endpoint
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MMN-o Sorry, I was still writing when you had posted that ;)
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cweiske MMN-o, unfortunately, the indieauth.com implementation for own auth endpoints is .. buggy currently; https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/92
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MMN-o cweiske: So this sends the indieauth script to your proxy. But do I rely on your proxy to relay info back to the indieauth script or will there be communication directly betweeen my openid node and the place I want to log in?
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MMN-o Or should I probably setup my own proxy and point to that? :)
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MMN-o cweiske: I might merge your proxy into GNU social as a plugin. :]
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MMN-o Though I'll probably have to modify it because of the legacy PEAR::DB interface we still rely upon in GNU social
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cweiske MMN-o, indieauth-enabled website <-> proxy <-> openid server
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cweiske there is no direct communication going on between openid server and the website
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MMN-o Aye, then I guess it's best to be my own proxy.
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cweiske yep.
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cweiske more secure
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MMN-o But then I still might not be able to login to the wiki anyway? ;)
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MMN-o Oh well, small steps are good too.
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cweiske yes, because the wiki relies on indieauth.com
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MMN-o Thanks for the help anyway, I'll stick around if someone has ideas/comments/complaints on the indiewebbiness of GNU social :)
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LanceyWork does it accept webmentions?
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cweiske MMN-o, where is your gnu social instance?
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MMN-o Hm, no it doesn't. There's just some outdated (and even in StatusNet code) non-working pingback support.
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MMN-o cweiske: I mainly use Umeå hackerspace's instance (which I also use to try out new development), my profile page is https://social.umeahackerspace.se/mmn
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LanceyWork sending/receiving webmentions would make a good addition
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MMN-o should be possible to lookup via acct:mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se
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MMN-o LanceyWork: How's the support for webmentions with, say, Wordpress etc?
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MMN-o LanceyWork: I'd be happy to throw pingback out the door and only use webmention
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MMN-o Dunno if blogger.com etc. ever supported anything past trackbacks
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LanceyWork iirc wordpress still uses pingbacks, but webmention.io has a pingback->webmention forwarding service
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LanceyWork https://webmention.io/#forwarding
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petermolnar MMN-o https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/
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MMN-o I guess Webmentions will be a perfect weekend implementation.
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MMN-o cweiske: but I also run quitter.es and quitter.is, which use the "Qvitter" plugin (which is much less indieweb-friendly since it doesn't piggyback on most <head> metadata generated by GNU social)
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LanceyWork does gnu social have an api for posting updates?
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MMN-o LanceyWork: Yes, we support Twitter's API and APP (atom publishing protocol) at least
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MMN-o though I've never had any chance to try any software which actually uses APP
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Loqi slack/:
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aaronpk rhiaro: quill login is broken for you?!
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Loqi aaronpk: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 50 minutes ago: what's up with "This auth server cannot be used to authenticate to itself"? http://rhiaro.co.uk/stash/weirdindieautherror.png Also Quill wouldn't load this page at all (I was trying to demo micropub...) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-04/line/1433413902682
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Loqi aaronpk: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 37 minutes ago: (auth still worked for teacup by the way) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-04/line/1433414677992
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cweiske aaronpk, no, it's the login on indieauth.com
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rhiaro aaronpk: at the moment quill hangs for ages then loads a blank screen after I type my domain
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rhiaro teacup hangs for ages and eventually loads the auth options
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rhiaro there's a small chance I broke something on my end, but I'm sure it's worked since I made my last big changes before
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aaronpk maybe if your home page wasn't half a megabyte it would load faster ;)
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rhiaro it might be that
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rhiaro but teacup does work
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rhiaro maybe I'll sort out paging tonight
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aaronpk that's weird cause they're basically the same code
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rhiaro yeah I thought so
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aaronpk what is paging?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "paging" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=paging&summary=prompted+by+aaronpk+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-04%2Fline%2F1433431740491
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aaronpk darn
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rhiaro what is pagination
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pagination" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=pagination&summary=prompted+by+rhiaro+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-04%2Fline%2F1433431754007
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rhiaro huh
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rhiaro I guess the most likely reason right now *is* that my homepage is too big and teacup is just handling not timing out better than quill
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rhiaro but I have to deal with offsets in queries and stuff and bah
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aaronpk make sure you do offsets based on actual objects and not just page number
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rhiaro yeah
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rhiaro I might lump by months
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rhiaro any other recommendations welcome
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rhiaro actually
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rhiaro I already have the code for months
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rhiaro that was easy
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rhiaro rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05
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aaronpk quill logs shows it hit the 30-sec max execution time
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aaronpk probably a combination of fetching and parsing the page
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rhiaro oookay, I can post with quill (using add-to-homescreen-pre-authed version) but teacup isn't making it to my micropub
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rhiaro wtf is going on
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@withknown RT @jarofgreen: Did a @blipfoto plugin for @withknown https://github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/WithKnown-Blipfoto ... Hi #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606484071888265217)
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rhiaro aaronpk: any chance you could add some debugging info to teacup?
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rhiaro mabye teacup is timing out with discovering my micropub endpoint?
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rhiaro I need to exclude posts with 'test' tag from my homepage feed
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kylewm ahh, hadn't thought of that... data urls take a big bite out of indieauth/webmention
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rhiaro or maybe just make a cron job that auto deletes them every day
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aaronpk just a good reason to keep your home page lightweight, which is usually a good idea anyway
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rhiaro yeha
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rhiaro I know this, I'm just awful
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kylewm aaronpk: could be solved with HEAD requests?
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kylewm i.e. if rhiaro included Link: authorization_endpoint=, etc.
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk but we can't assume everyone can set http headers
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rhiaro ooh but I can
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rhiaro so I'll do that too
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aaronpk pretty sure quill and teacup will check the header first before fetching the body
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rhiaro super
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rhiaro this seems like a good thing to do to start recovering from ESWC, which just ended
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kylewm would y'all recommend I not save uploaded images in a cryptic "uploads/hash[0]/hash[1]/hash" style directory?
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aaronpk you could do something date based
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aaronpk uploads/YYYY/mm/hash
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kylewm ohh yes that's better
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kylewm but hash is ok? previously I was storing as uploads/[post-path]/files/[image-name.[jpg|png]], but that is becoming too limiting
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aaronpk it depends on where they're coming from
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aaronpk if they're only your own images, then nice URLs is better
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kylewm they'll have nice URLs, just trying to work out the on-disk plumbing
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aaronpk if it's user generated content, then probably hash is better because you don't want to do sequential numbers cause then all th eimages are discoverable, and you probably don't want to make users type in a slug for each file
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aaronpk ah this is just the on-disk part? nothing to do with the URL?
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kylewm correct, that is what i should have asked, is it ok to store files cryptically and map them to nice URLs :)
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aaronpk i guess imagine worst-case you lose the database that maps URLs to filenames, are you left with anything remotely useful?
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kylewm nope, pure garbage
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kylewm heh
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aaronpk i still don't know what the images are for, but can you add anything to the filenames that would help you in debugging, or reconstructing anything?
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aaronpk e.g. user-generated content could be stored in a subfolder that is their domain name
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kylewm oh sorry, these are images uploaded by the user, either photo posts or images embedded in articles (or photos posted from ownyourgram)
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kylewm but yyyy/ddd would go a long way toward making the data recoverable
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kylewm anyway aaronpk, thank you for finding the important question, i'll do something with that in mind
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LanceyWork kylewm, anything else need to be done before merging in hashtag parsing?
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kylewm LanceyWork: what'd you think about using bs4_sub? https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/pull/57/files#r31726972
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LanceyWork i'll take a look
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kylewm it would only really matter if you had like a code snippet in a <pre> block that had a # in it
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kylewm bs4_sub prevents it form matching inside those blocks
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+111) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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LanceyWork probably way better than splicing it myself
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kylewm Lancey++ I'm really excited about this addition
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Loqi Lancey has 1 karma
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LanceyWork everything appears to still be working
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LanceyWork ideally, i suppose i should have separated the act of linking the tags and discovering them
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@MightyCasey Kirk Saunders CEO of @lifehealthdiary shares why he's an #ownyourdata entrepreneur. #cinderblocks2 https://twitter.com/MightyCasey/status/606499574522499072/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/606499574522499072)
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@LAlupusLady RT @MightyCasey: Kirk Saunders CEO of @lifehealthdiary shares why he's an #ownyourdata entrepreneur. #cinderblocks2 https://twitter.com/MightyCasey/status/606499574522499072/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/606500442634338304)
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@LanceCoyote Added my automatic hashtag parser to /tags/redwind. Let’s get that Twitter sharing stuff in there too! /tags/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/606500582640132096)
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@MightyCasey "Data sovereignty" = mission of @lifehealthdiary to deliver #ownyourdata to PATIENTS, shift healthcare power paradigm. #cinderblocks2 (twitter.com/_/status/606500649518428162)
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LanceyWork oh guess who found a bug
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@JjrkCh RT @MightyCasey: "Data sovereignty" = mission of @lifehealthdiary to deliver #ownyourdata to PATIENTS, shift healthcare power paradigm. #ci… (twitter.com/_/status/606501722228420608)
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@LAlupusLady RT @MightyCasey: "Data sovereignty" = mission of @lifehealthdiary to deliver #ownyourdata to PATIENTS, shift healthcare power paradigm. #ci… (twitter.com/_/status/606502070104006656)
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@superfeedr RSS is #indie http://blog.superfeedr.com/indiefeeds/?utm_content=buffer54b1e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indiewebcamp #indiefeeds (twitter.com/_/status/606510523367227393)
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@_MsPark_ http://Webmention.com is the http://t.co/SjhvHjkdbZ. I have found it very useful these past few weeks. #SMM #DigitalMarketing #ORM (twitter.com/_/status/606510808261140480)
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@LanceCoyote Adding a bunch more features to #RedWind today. Still a lot to go! #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/606512100400369664)
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lancey.space edited /User:Lancey.space (-102) "/* To-do */" (view diff)
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kylewm everyone else getting "You may also like" in the sidebar for twitter permalinks
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kylewm ?
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KevinMarks on the web, yes
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kylewm so noisy
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KevinMarks bizarrely uncorrelated ones
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KartikPrabhu no. not yet
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KevinMarks only if logged in
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KartikPrabhu I am getting the terrible "trends" thing
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kylewm i kinda like the trends thing
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aaronpk i have "portland trends" at the bottom of mine
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KartikPrabhu same problem. too noisy
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kylewm i look at trends when someone posts something without context, like "who announced they are running for president?"
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kylewm "You may also like" just seems to be "generally popular tweets" not "more like this"
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LanceyWork maybe you tend to browse generally popular tweets
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LanceyWork i was getting somewhat relevant things
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LanceyWork not that it makes it any less cluttered and annoying
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KevinMarks trying on my obscure @ replies, I get random media things
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KevinMarks the same ones too
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aaronpk oh nooooooo yahoo pipes is going away! http://pipes.yqlblog.net/post/120705592639/pipes-end-of-life-announcement
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Loqi slack/snarfed: oh wow, end of an era
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aaronpk end of an era
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aaronpk jinx
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KevinMarks wow, what a toxic ui on those "you might like" ones
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KevinMarks the timestamp in top right, which is normally the permalink on twitter, turns into a close box on hover
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KevinMarks so in trying to click on one I removed it
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aaronpk that's kind of hilariously bad
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kylewm sets @-moz-document domain("twitter.com") {.SiderailRelatedTweets{display:none;}}
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@macartisan RT @kevinmarks: The uncanny valley of video editing and taxonomy http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing (also on https://medium.com/@kevinmarks/the-uncanny-valley-of-video-editing-af6f7ada617c ) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/606518947668762625)
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KevinMarks the draconian xml tweet led me back to this post, in which Mark Pilgrim defends having lots of tests https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2007/01/30/XML-2
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aaronpk tests are great
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snarfed tests++
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Loqi tests has 4 karma
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/2014-11-06_happy-1000th-bridgy#unit%20tests
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cweiske so. how's the external auth servers problem on indieauth.com?
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aaronpk i worked on my own site yesterday instead of indieauth.com :)
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aaronpk because i never give myself time for my own site since i'm constantly working on these other apps
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kylewm cweiske: this is why it didn't work for me https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/95
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aaronpk what I really need is a week off work to just do indieweb stuff all day :)
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kylewm Loqi give aaronpk a week off
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Loqi who, me?
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lancey.space edited /User:Lancey.space (+24) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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kylewm darn no microformats on Meetup.com events
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@j_littlewood @jessimckenzi @agolis recommend that we get up with the #indieweb and @t who spoke last year (twitter.com/_/status/606539507278749696)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/606540313591582722
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@mmasnick Okay, so who's going to create an open version of Yahoo Pipes now that it's being killed off? http://pipes.yqlblog.net/post/120705592639/pipes-end-of-life-announcement (twitter.com/_/status/606540313591582722)
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KevinMarks didn't barnaby make one?
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KevinMarks https://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/edit/
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KevinMarks no source though
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@kid_OYO starting students 8+ on #webliteracy path by teaching #indieweb methods + stacking personal data literacy/leverage on top of coding skills.. (twitter.com/_/status/606554239561695232)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/freebsdgirl/status/606558226956492800
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@freebsdgirl @notch it's interesting to think about how twitter is built for tech scale, but not social scale. (twitter.com/_/status/606558226956492800)
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aaronpk that's a bizarre thread
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kylewm @notch's beard kinda looks like it zips on and off in that picture though
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Loqi slack/snarfed: this beard has a zipper...your argument is invalid
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Loqi slack/snarfed: for tantek: <https://twitter.com/GradElitism/status/602884146419994624>
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Loqi slack/snarfed: "Citation or it didn't happen."
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bret aaronpk: did you make any good progress on anything after I left last night>
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bret >
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aaronpk just more internals
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bret s/>/?
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Loqi bret meant to say: ?
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aaronpk nothing to show yet
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bret is a rewrite in order? or just refactor
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aaronpk looking like a pretty major refactor
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aaronpk the next step is rewriting how requests are handled, that will be the determining factor of whether I end up starting from scratch or not
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@benwerd RIP, Yahoo! Pipes. This is the kind of thing there really needs to be a user-friendly #indieweb alternative to. http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/04/yahoo-sunsets-yahoo-pipes-an-iftt-precursor-along-with-yahoo-maps-and-more/ (twitter.com/_/status/606595729671356416)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/rklau/status/606595301022003201
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@rklau Introducing stndrd.io, Standards as a Service. We're disrupting standards. Build on our standard and we'll interop with all other standards. (twitter.com/_/status/606595301022003201)
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@kevinmarks @rklau yours might not be, but that sums up a lot of #indieweb work (twitter.com/_/status/606596653672337408)
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gRegorLove Wow, Yahoo shutting down Yahoo Maps (except in search results and Flickr geo data)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+862) "/* Upcoming */ Yahoo Maps + Pipes" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+161) "Past: Trovebox, Lyrk.de. Any Day Now: Gitorious" (view diff)