tantek!tell ttepasse still trying to understand what you *do* want users to do, rather than *do not*. E.g. do you want users to link to your posts? If so, do you have preferred link text you'd like them to use? Are you ok with short quotations but not long? Etc.
tantekA recipe is special kind of post, that typically has a name, like [[articles]] do, a list of ingredients, and a list of instructions for making something, usually [[food]] or drink.
tantekediting specs is hard, shorter specs are better, and yet, removing all sense of attempting a pragmatic bridge was throwing out the baby with the bathwater
sandroHmmm, You saw elf's suggestion of having other syntaxes be in companion documents? I'm still trying to understand how we were going to get any multi-syntax interop.
tantekan alternative spec would be based on what people are actually publishing, instead of what a past group (as much as AS was its own group/mailing-list/community) brainstormed, and got mutated into enterprise linked data largesse
tanteksandro - do you have any suggestions for the divergence in technology development methodologies? (real world pragmatic, what people are actually publishing on their own sites as part of what they do, contrast with enterprise aspirational, only test examples)
tantekthe examples in the same spec interop was supposed at least provide some semblance of an equivalence that publishers / consuming code could look at
bengoThe best point of interop is at the vocab/semantics level and not the serialization level (e.g. JSON/HTML). If the former is done (by mapping mf2 entities to the AS2 vocab or vice-versa), the latter is someone trivial to do in an exemplary way
sandrore divergence, I kind of figure the two approaches meet up an Candidate Recommendation, when even the Enterprise folks have to implement everything.
tantekbengo - for example, we've demonstrated here (#indiewebcamp) that not only is there no need for verbs (which the WG did actually accept last year at TPAC), but there is no need for a separate notion of "activities"
sandroI guess I don't see how a "semblance of equivalence" is very helpful. I mean, I guess it's better than competing standards that have no semblance of equivalence, but it's not nearly as good as one standard, right?
tantekor a very high bar for implementability, and thus only enterprise solutions, which is again, bad for the market (but good for enterprise coffers)
tantekthere really is a tension between small minimal standards, and standards that enterprises and all their customers "want" (i.e. don't actually know if they need or not)
tantekbengo - HTML is just the foundational language of communication on the web, you can have the JSON version if you want - as defined by microformats2 parsing and implemented by multiple parsers
bengo(ignorance) Is there a formally specified JSON representation of mf2? I was under the impression that each parser parsed to a different set of keys?
sandrobengo, I think the problem is that mf2 and as2 model the world differently. Different words (vocab), different concepts. The syntax differences are easy to handle in comparison.
tanteksandro - I'm not sure, as the only "as2 folks" that transitioned from the group that invented and developed AS/AS2, into Social Web WG, is IBM (and James)
tanteknone of the authors of the original AS spec, or leaders in the AS group/mailing-list actually have activity streams on their own sites, or work on anything related any more
tantekhe's also so good of an implementer, that despite the specs being hard or complex, he'll likely be able to implement them, but that's not actually useful to "standards" in the long term
tantek!tell gRegorLove: next time anyone (designers, UX) tell you that we need "simpler" dates on the IndieWebCamp wiki events, and propose US-centric things like Month Day, Year etc., please show them https://twitter.com/amazingmap/status/599931666803597312 and tell them IndieWebCamp is global, not US-only.
tantekwe have to admit/accept that 1) we have an international community in IndieWebCamp, and 2) there's still a big critical mass of that community in the US
tantekthe best (least worst) option is to go with what's most internationally understandable and least confusing across the set of folks the community interacts with and that's ISO dates.
tantekgRegorLove: yeah that github issue was likely it - thought I saw it as part of the great redesign which is why I think I collapsed the two. commented on the issue with those citations.
tantekyou and several others are way ahead on building indie-readers, I hope someone manages to integrate one into their own site in a integrated-reader approach like pump and other social networks
gRegorLoveWell, do we even need a separate date listed on the left then? My initial concept was a larger visual cue when scanning the list to see when the events are. The ISO date is already listed beside "When" so maybe drop the square icon
tantekopenness is insufficient to avoid monoculture, you can have a completely open but very hard to implement set of protocols/formats, which will result in few or maybe only one implementation
tanteksomeone could certainly write one - and you could even markup the JSON pretty-printed out put with microformats to have a fully-round-trippable JSON pretty print
Loqitantek meant to say: someone could certainly write one - and you could even markup the JSON pretty-printed output with microformats to have a fully-round-trippable JSON pretty print
kylewmit gets flattened to plain text because it's p-content instead of e-content, but the suggestion to put h-cite inside the outer e-content is more radical
tantek!tell adactio looks like my addition of timezone to my dt-published caused a datetime parse error on your site when I webmention one of your posts from a reply: https://adactio.com/journal/9016#comment19204
tantek!tell dym_cx re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-06/line/1433623439412 use p-category on your h-card to tag yourself, what you're about, your interests etc. simple flat folksonomy, and a "good enough" publishing solution to the "find me people into the same things" use-case.
kylewm!tell acegiak ok fixed some issues on my side, but now I'm having trouble parsing your replies. you probably don't want to mark up the header as e-content, and probably do want to add "p-comment h-cite" to comments
tantek!tell dym_cx re: spoken/written languages - I believe "skill" was proposed for h-resume, no examples so far of publishing that info on an h-card AFAIK - what's the URL to your personal site with h-card?
Loqidym_cx: tantek left you a message 16 minutes ago: re: spoken/written languages - I believe "skill" was proposed for h-resume, no examples so far of publishing that info on an h-card AFAIK - what's the URL to your personal site with h-card? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-09/line/1433865883264
tantekdym_cx: also in mf2, when you're using an experimental property like that (which expect others to also experiment with, perhaps eventually make standard), use -x- before the name, but after the p
ben_thatmustbemei was trying to find rhymes with auth, like Slauth, and then just do a backronym for the SL part.... but slauth is a thing for second life auth
aaronpk"The registration is 51,26$+VAT(24%), one-time payment. There is no yearly fee at present. When yearly fee will be introduced, you will be informed."
GWGIt's on my list to fix. I had superseded it with the Semantic Comments plugin which did do it as you noted, but had to disable that because the solution was problematic for other reasons.
GWGkylewm: It's actually a priority for me to fix the markup. And since acegiak uses a child theme of the mf2_s starter theme, that should trickle down
kylewmtantek: I think they're confusing comment vs. reply, like vs. like-of, repost vs. repost-of, but I think any other alternative would be confusing too...
ZegnatI believe Felix tries to get the message across that he gets the idea of the indieweb there, but not the execution. About aaronpk’s Replies link specifically: what does it reply to, why, and why *there*. “What’s on this page? An answer to an answer? Can I answer to that answer too? Where? How?”, “Can I comment here? Where is the comment field? What is a webmention, that I can send from there? Where does it go?
ZegnatIt bsically goes on like that. And it seems like he is explaining about the IndieWeb to people, the way he would’ve liked the IndieWeb to have been explained to him
Zegnat“I discovered the indieweb when one of the first versions of Reclaim was done. I learned that what Reclaim does is what the indiewebguys call “PESOS”. The rest I only understood 50%. I read fascinating ideas and concept, but couldn’t do much with them.”
ZegnatFelix didn’t know what h-card and h-entry were until he was invited to speak at nebenan.hamburg. And now he has written what I would consider one of the best introductions to the IndieWeb ever.
Zegnat“When I send a webmention from wirres.net to aaronpareki.com, aaronpareki.com checks what that prick has done – aha – a like, and notes it below the article.”
rhiaroWhen you create event posts, do you rsvp to your own events as a separate post, or is the fact you created the event enough to imply you're attending?
Zegnatnedorito, when you see people discussing things here, like them talking about “RSVP”, you can try asking what it is here in chat and Loqi will tell you:
LoqiA reply thread (AKA reply chain) is a threaded list of replies, and replies to those replies, displayed under the original post, as part of the context-thread https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-chain