#indiewebcamp 2015-06-11

2015-06-11 UTC
bengo, lukebrooker, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__ and snarfed joined the channel
#
@Cybrsalon “@hadleybeeman: @emojli is done, but kudos to the team for the elegant Download Your Messages tool, HTML /JSON. all Take note #ownyourdata” (twitter.com/_/status/608793991627333632)
snarfed, KevinMarks_ and tilgovi joined the channel
#
@JeffreyKeefer @Bali_Maha @GoogleGuacamole @francesbell @jonbecker I use IndieWeb, though do not like how it is formatted in my template #TWP15 (twitter.com/_/status/608799041984450560)
#
tantek GWG, WordPress related? ^^^
#
@JeffreyKeefer @clhendricksbc @francesbell It will be most appreciated! Somehow WP keeps listing real comments as spam and IndieWeb is not formatted #TWP15 (twitter.com/_/status/608799731884498944)
#
tantek I was right!
#
@scanadu RT @MollyRoseL: .@scanadu @sam_debrouwer discussing how #scanadu will empower consumers. #NewCoSv #OwnYourData https://twitter.com/MollyRoseL/status/608779368928673793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/608802281945890816)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
@jbasilio_tw RT @MollyRoseL: .@scanadu @sam_debrouwer discussing how #scanadu will empower consumers. #NewCoSv #OwnYourData https://twitter.com/MollyRoseL/status/608779368928673793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/608804747857043456)
Guerillero|BNC, glennjones, KevinMarks_, GWG, sivoais, j12t, snarfed and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@oSoftDev Much more refined #chat app, but still #WIPWednesday. for the #MembersOnly section of our site #indiedev #indieweb https://twitter.com/oSoftDev/status/608831931480993793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/608831931480993793)
#
@indiegamesdevel RT @oSoftDev: Much more refined #chat app, but still #WIPWednesday. for the #MembersOnly section of our site #indiedev #indieweb http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/608832174842884096)
#
@RedIndieBot RT @oSoftDev: Much more refined #chat app, but still #WIPWednesday. for the #MembersOnly section of our site #indiedev #indieweb http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/608832292665061376)
#
tantek !block RedIndieBot
#
Loqi Got it! There are now 43 spammers blacklisted
snarfed and rbrt joined the channel
#
@dshanske @JeffreyKeefer I work with IndieWeb WordPress tools, anything that I can do to help? (twitter.com/_/status/608835049790636032)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
nedorito does loqi post every wiki edit?
#
nedorito hm that last one was just a twitter mention
awolf, KevinMarks_, frzn and rbrt joined the channel
#
acegiak morning, all
lukebrooker and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
wagle hi -- rip van wagle here -- where I left off long ago was thinking mediagoblin was the way to go for a private (digitocean) instance of a photo album.. are people still thinking that, or is there something else?
#
GWG Morning, acegiak.
#
GWG wagle: The Mediagoblin people would likely agree. There are alternatives as well.
#
wagle i sorta wanted to go in a direction that you guys were going, so asking around.. just now set up a mediagoblin server and loading it with some of the pictures I want to display to my families
#
GWG acegiak: The comment walker entered mf2_s last night but is in serious need of a rewrite.
#
GWG wagle: I don't know of anyone here using Mediagoblin, but that doesn't mean anything specific.
#
tantek wagle, FWIW the folks working on Mediagoblin participate in the W3C Social Web WG and are quite nice to work with. Sometimes they hangout here as well.
#
wagle sure... what IS being used? (I have two big unsorted boxes of family pictures from both my fathers and mothers sides of the family, want to try to sort them with mutual agreement from said families)
#
tantek I don't know of any others here using any other techniques / projects for *private* photo albums
#
wagle I'm wanting to have this gallery last for at least 80-100 years, so am a little confused as to how to do tht
#
wagle ok
#
tantek that is a great question about /longevity
#
wagle hey to be very mobile amongst media
#
tantek I don't know anyone who has enough experience to recommend any particular digial storage / publishing approach for a gallery to last 80-100 years
#
wagle have to be very mobile amongst media
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
wagle have to have grandma port the pictures and descrpition database every 5-10 years or something
#
GWG As long as you keep it up to date, there should be an export path
#
wagle the real out is to get the physical pictures to the right sides of the family, but doing just that is a long boring process
#
GWG wagle: I have mine in a paid photo silo, but the family won't organize them.
#
wagle GWG: which one? you like it?
#
wagle i'm worried that "they" will try to claim copyright or something
#
GWG wagle: Smugmug. My relatives love it. I couldn't get them onto a self hosted solution
#
wagle huh.. ok
#
GWG wagle: Smugmug is popular with professional photographers, probably not a danger
#
wagle i figure I will have a couple replicas
#
wagle whats flickr's reputation these days?
#
GWG Either way, I still maintain a backup of my photos, but my relatives don't. I need to get to a solution for that.
#
wagle yeah, i predict they will languish and bitroot 10-years after my death
#
wagle bitrot
#
nedorito SSD that gets delivered to your grandchild on their 30th birthday
#
nedorito along with a $2 bill and a mix tape that you made
#
GWG wagle: I discussed this a lot in school
#
GWG There is nothing you can do but maintain. But you can plan
#
wagle yeah, i guess attaching myself to a popular solution is one means to "immortality"
#
wagle all i can think of is to port between several such, and hoope for the best
#
GWG wagle: Hedge bets
#
wagle one of them is a home disk (aka"server"), the rest are replicas
#
GWG wagle: The IndieWeb solution is s combination of html, flat file storage.
#
GWG Which is easy to export to out of most systems
#
wagle ok..
#
wagle thinks
#
GWG wagle: I'm not doing that though
#
wagle well, you can dump a databse to the sql commands to recreate it
#
wagle but I dont have much compute horse power on my droplet.. static html might be good
#
wagle but (2) the relatives need to be able to leave comments on the public side of the replica farm
#
GWG Storage format has nothing to do with interface
#
wagle latency.. maybe
#
wagle i could do a lot of caching trickery to get it fast, but thats a lot of programming to do and maintain
#
wagle sorry, kinda thinkiing out loud here
#
GWG wagle: I cache by saving the generated html from mt code and the serving it. Nginx does that for me
#
GWG wagle: Thinking out loud is great
#
wagle "mt"?
#
GWG my. On my phone, little keyboard
#
wagle GWG: ha! not like my typing is that great
#
GWG wagle: I'm waiting for the bus
#
wagle GWG: ah.. what do you use and an IRC solution on your phone? (the one I use wants to logout whenever the phone goes blank)
#
wagle GWG: ah.. what do you use as an IRC solution on your phone? (the one I use wants to logout whenever the phone goes blank)
#
GWG wagle: Combination of a ZNC bouncer, WeeChat, and Glowing Bear
#
wagle oh interesting
#
wagle i setup a znc server, but been underwhelmed with clients for it
#
GWG wagle: Same.
#
GWG wagle: Pictures aside, what do you want to do on yours site?
#
wagle .. i find "wechat" for my iphone.. is it an imposter?
#
GWG wagle: Not sure. I use Android
#
wagle this site is for the album, other sites for other projects
#
wagle nothing interesting to say yet
#
wagle about the other projects: a programming language, and programming methodology, theoretical biology, ...
#
GWG wagle: Do you have a personal site?
#
wagle i made up a word "obloid" years ago, so I created obloid.org, only to find that some good decided it was a good word for the clitoris
#
wagle i made up a word "obloid" years ago, so I created obloid.org, only to find that some goof decided it was a good word for the clitoris
#
wagle so been waiting to get inspired with another good name
#
GWG wagle: The first step around here is having a domain and site. A place for you.
#
wagle yeah, thats currently obloid.org, but its rotting due to the name thing
#
wagle weechat != wechat oh well
#
wagle my next phone will likely be an android
#
@Bali_Maha @JeffreyKeefer @GoogleGuacamole @francesbell @jonbecker i had webmentions turned on and they always go to spam by default (twitter.com/_/status/608876411277946880)
eschnou, pfefferle, loic_m, friedcell, Jihaisse and pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Benjamin Atkin RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/101890076819383#10152931821186526)
#
acegiak wagle: I'm really liking my weechat/glowingbear setup
#
wagle acegiak: yeah, but i have an iphone 8(
#
wagle not finding a weechat for iphone, but i didnt try very hard
#
wagle itsays macosx, but not ios..
eschnou, tilgovi, j12t and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
@leitmedium @diplix Weißt Du, nach wie vielen Stunden/Tagen das Caching des Webmention Endponts bei brid.gy ausläuft? https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1433996742&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lySwsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIj10YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2MDg2MTk5MjA4MzQ4OTU4NzJfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzIzNzM5Njg0DA (twitter.com/_/status/608901447518973952)
#
@AntonellaPoce @jimgroom @EDENConference #indieweb to keep an eye on! (twitter.com/_/status/608902034138492928)
friedcell joined the channel
#
@14prinsp The Indieweb gets a shoutout at #EDEN15 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/608902392755712000)
#
@EDENConference RT @AntonellaPoce: @jimgroom @EDENConference #indieweb to keep an eye on! (twitter.com/_/status/608902456920170496)
#
@BrittaZawada RT @14prinsp: The Indieweb gets a shoutout at #EDEN15 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/608903348641738752)
#
@EDENConference RT @14prinsp: The Indieweb gets a shoutout at #EDEN15 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/608905327543758848)
#
GWG acegiak: You use it too?
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@DimitrisTzouris .@jimgroom talking about #IndieWeb. Take back control! Really important! #eden15 /cc @withknown @kevinmarks https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/608907317464170498)
evalica joined the channel
#
@IanStuart66 RT @DimitrisTzouris: .@jimgroom talking about #IndieWeb. Take back control! Really important! #eden15 /cc @withknown @kevinmarks https://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/608908864487092226)
LauraJ and csarven joined the channel
#
@dorakalliora RT @DimitrisTzouris: .@jimgroom talking about #IndieWeb. Take back control! Really important! #eden15 /cc @withknown @kevinmarks https://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/608910899068465152)
snarfed1, j12t, stream7 and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
wagle aaronpk: Loqi is giving out bogus urls to tweets (see the last one above)
#
Loqi yeah!
petermolnar, eschnou, friedcell, Sebastien-L, KevinMarks__, nt0, glennjones_, Deledrius, sanduhrs and endi joined the channel
#
robert-brook.com edited /2015/Brighton (+128) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
frzn, j12t, Pierre-O, pfefferle, squeakytoy, LanceyWork, sanduhrs, friedcell and adactio joined the channel
#
@JeffreyKeefer @dshanske I have had problems installing IndieWeb PostKinds due to an error message. (twitter.com/_/status/608965278131757056)
#
@JeffreyKeefer @dshanske Also, IndieWeb does not seem to maintain the formatting of my bog template; no idea why not. (twitter.com/_/status/608965379419807744)
#
@JeffreyKeefer @dshanske One last issue, though it may or may not be IndieWeb, but I noticed since using it more real comments get caught as spam. Very odd (twitter.com/_/status/608965505597067265)
glennjones joined the channel
#
GWG I may have my work cut out for me
pfefferle and nedorito joined the channel
#
vanderven.se martijn edited /Safari_Extensions (+129) "/* Controversy */ Add link to Apple Developer Forum thread." (view diff)
KartikPrabhu, sanduhrs1 and j12t joined the channel
#
@RudigerMeyer POSSE vs PESOS? The indieweb for non-developers? The popularisation of the #indieweb? Interesting article (in German) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/7785/1/6/ (twitter.com/_/status/608979276843655168)
LauraJ, petermolnar, frzn, mlncn, danlyke, wilfredh and pfefferle joined the channel
#
@techmeetup IndieWebCamp http:///forum/#!msg/techmeetup/7oM3RAJn3yQ/AOy3XR4bT-8J (twitter.com/_/status/608991700350926848)
#
nedorito guys do you use/promote/affiliate with ind.ie?
#
petermolnar http://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie
#
rhiaro nedorito: https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp
#
rhiaro snap :)
#
nedorito hot damn
#
nedorito bows down to the almighty wiki
#
Loqi lolz
#
rhiaro Document all the things
#
petermolnar that wiki page was put together after some pretty aggressive twitter wars on the topic
#
rhiaro yeah, people ask a lot, so
#
rhiaro There's a lot of overlap in principles, but some fundamental disagreements in implementations/attitudes I think
#
rhiaro Though everyone has their own opinion, there isn't one stance for the IWC community as a whole
#
petermolnar "some" fundamental disagreements, like not building a macos only network after collecting a lot of money for a different purpose?
#
rhiaro I'm being diplomatic :p
#
rhiaro It's not like there's a shortage of strong opinions
#
petermolnar strong is a relative word
#
petermolnar for example, there is momentum.im: they presented the idea last year, in July; I haven't heard a single update since then, and I don't think it would be strong to say, it's dead
#
petermolnar ind.ie kind of makes me feel similar
#
nedorito interesting
#
petermolnar as they had more than a __year__ to present something
#
rhiaro there is a distinct lack of anyone talking about any ind.ie products
#
nedorito I have some history to read up on lol
#
petermolnar nedorito I wouldn't start on Twitter, there's a pretty deep rabbit hole there on the topic :)
#
nedorito I mentioned indie web to a friend who mentioned being disillusioned after backing ind.ie
#
nedorito which is what led me to bring it up here
#
nedorito IWC seems pretty great though
#
@robstewartUK Option 1: a very.. "interesting" sign up mechanism by @rhiaro for the IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh :-) http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/06/iwc-edi (twitter.com/_/status/608996320699887617)
#
rhiaro yeah, totally different community/attitudes :)
#
@rhiaro @robstewartUK I could make a facebook event, but that would be kind of hypocritical wouldn't it? ;) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/608996801740423168)
snarfed and j12t joined the channel
#
petermolnar rhiaro not necessarily, since the indieweb approach is not against using silos, but I'd definitely prefer the non-facebook approach myself
#
petermolnar ( I hate writing myself, every time I have to force my mind not to write mysql )
#
rhiaro I don't facebook unless I really have to
#
rhiaro I also just pointed out that setting up indieauth is probably fewer steps than signing up for eventbrite
fourtonfish and j12t joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what's a good way to markup links to previous versions for example, see submission history: http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.0526
#
GWG I get more responses from Facebook than anywhere else Except a like is fairly hollow engagement
#
petermolnar response == comment but response != like imho
#
csarven KartikPrabhu Dive into http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5829
#
petermolnar we should already be beyond the point of valuing likes
#
petermolnar ( and similar )
#
Loqi I agree
#
csarven NOthing particularly "wrong" with that. They are all form of a "vote". G+'s +1 to Reddit's up, FB's Like..
#
csarven Twitter's faves/RTs
#
nedorito loqi confuses me
#
csarven I agree
#
petermolnar except Reddit, where up actually has a function, what good a like does apart from ego-boosting?
#
csarven Sure, that's one way of interpreting :)
#
petermolnar it's not even a bookmark or a fav like deviantart or flickr used it a long time ago
#
petermolnar no, I'm serious
#
petermolnar what is it good for you, the one who gives a like?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "it good for you, the one who gives a like" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=it+good+for+you%2C+the+one+who+gives+a+like&summary=prompted+by+petermolnar+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-11%2Fline%2F1434032393712
#
csarven It could be anything. It may even be as simple as "I took notice of this item"
#
petermolnar nedorito Loqi confuses everyone ;)
#
csarven What is Loqi?
#
Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
#
petermolnar Loqi is 42
#
Loqi who, me?
#
nedorito too good of a bot though
#
nedorito some of the responses take me to an uncanny valley sort of place
#
nedorito lol
#
GWG petermolnar: I'm hoping to engage more. I didn't get a single webmention on my recent stuff.
#
petermolnar csarven so like (vote, +1, whatever) is a way of showing that you've acknowledged a post; now that I don't find useful
#
rhiaro For me a like is a way of expressing appreciate for something where I don't have any specific other comments to make
#
rhiaro Which is different from a bookmark, which (for me) means I'll read it later/again mostly
#
csarven What I'm trying to say is that, the semantics behind that is not that precise. So, given some context (and additional [meta]data) you can spin it in different ways
#
GWG rhiaro: Ditto
#
rhiaro Liking is sending a message to the person who made the post, storing it for myself for future reference, and creating a collection of things I'm interested in as an overview about me, in case anyone else wanted to see that
#
csarven finds it mildly amusing that Like/Fav/+1...ing is still discussed after nearly a decade of SocialWebStuff
#
rhiaro yeap
#
petermolnar csarven I find it amusing that within a decade, social networks morphed into gigantic spies on you and your life, selling everything they can...
#
GWG I discusse it all the time. I still haven't figured it out
#
rhiaro I used 'favorite' on twitter to mean 'bookmark' for ages, but now I've switched to using it as 'like'
#
csarven Personally, I'd value a reply/comment of some sort far more valuable. Any sort of engagement that's a bit more than a "click".
#
rhiaro obviously that's a detail only available in my head
#
aaronpk wagle: that usually means the person deleted the tweet immediately after posting. re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-11/line/1434012027901
#
csarven I use it as a personal bookmark+social acknowledgement
danlyke and cmhobbs joined the channel
#
petermolnar I tried to use it as bookmark+ack but nowadays, I have issue with that approach, especially how that will be used by the networks themselves and also that within the networks it's nearly impossible to search them properly, for example
#
petermolnar unless you made the like with your site already, but that was not an option for a very long time for me
chalettu joined the channel
#
GWG I am moving toward a better implementation of like, favorite, and bookmark slowly
#
csarven AFAIC, anything outside of the domains I control, everything is a throw-away account/service. :) Twitter can disappear tomorrow or delete my account, and I'll just go outside and play. No biggie.
snarfed joined the channel
#
rhiaro GWG: you have like *and* favorite?
#
rhiaro csarven: yeah when I talk about likes and bookmarks I mean rhiaro.co.uk/likes and rhiaro.co.uk/bookmarks :)
#
csarven Forms of annotating stuff on the Web.
#
GWG rhiaro: Implemented, yes
#
csarven See also: http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/
#
rhiaro GWG: do you use them both yourself?
#
rhiaro (how are they different to you?)
#
GWG rhiaro: No, but I think acegiak has a most interesting definition. One to indicate liking in the specific and the other in the abstract
#
rhiaro I chose like over favorite a) because remembering to use en-us vs en-gb is annoying and b) because if I 'favorite' everything it kind of loses its meaning
#
aaronpk doesn't "favorite" by definition mean there can be only one?
#
aaronpk or at least one per category of thing?
#
rhiaro quite
#
KitB I think it's entirely reasonable to say "favorite" means "in my set of favorites"
#
GWG As in, I like cookies vs I like an article by aaronpk.
#
rhiaro GWG: ohh I see what you mean. That is interesting
#
rhiaro someone was asking about that the other day
#
aaronpk "I like cookies" vs "I like *that* cookie"?
#
rhiaro wants a cookie
#
GWG rhiaro: If I could figure out how to demonstrate abstract concepts, I'd adopt it
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu csarven: that is a horrible document
#
KartikPrabhu and not useful
#
@IndieWebCampUK IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is happening 25-26 July! Sign up at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh and then stick around for @edfringe! (twitter.com/_/status/609009272232529920)
wolftune joined the channel
#
rhiaro ooh if @edfringe happen to retweet that it could be good for recruitment..
#
@nitot RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is happening 25-26 July! Sign up at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh and then stick around for @edfringe! (twitter.com/_/status/609010483627196416)
KartikPrabhu, tvn, tantek and adactio joined the channel
#
csarven KartikPrabhu Okay!
LauraJ joined the channel
#
kylewm csarven: for context Kartik works on /marginalia
adactio joined the channel
#
benjaminterry.net edited /User:Benjaminterry.net (+1) "/* About */" (view diff)
eschnou joined the channel
#
adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+350) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
gRegorLove, benwerd and snarfed joined the channel
#
benwerd The educational conference we're at is being hashtag attacked (hashtacked?) by a certain gaming community. I think I might spin this into a message about why controlling your own space is important.
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 6/10 at 11:14am: since you do things with music/audio on the indieweb, consider submitting a speaking proposal for SF Music Tech Summit 2015: https://sfmusictech.wufoo.com/forms/r1jkqagx100z417/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-10/line/1433960067012
#
aaronpk wow
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__ and tilgovi joined the channel
#
csarven kylewm Thanks for the context, but it doesn't really me understand their POV. In any case, how does marginalia handle spam - I don't know if this is an issue or not, only glanced at the project/idea.
#
@kevinmarks RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is happening 25-26 July! Sign up at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh and then stick around for @edfringe! (twitter.com/_/status/609040737137754115)
#
KevinMarks re the meaning of favorite: http://time.com/4336/a-simple-guide-to-twitter-favs/
#
KevinMarks also http://www.thewire.com/technology/2013/07/complete-guide-art-twitter-favorites/67610/
#
csarven We need to deploy EmotionML on IRC
#
@benwerd One trend in technology that does not help equality: stop developing for iOS / OS X first. Be tech-agnostic. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609045761632817153)
tvn joined the channel
#
@robmyers RT @benwerd: One trend in technology that does not help equality: stop developing for iOS / OS X first. Be tech-agnostic. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609045928670920704)
#
csarven irc://irc.freenode.net/%23indiwebcamp##2015-06-11T18:54:00+02:00%3Csmil+xmlns%3D%5C%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fns%2FSMIL%5C%22+version%3D%5C%223.0%5C%22%3E%3Chead%3ETo+Hello+or+not+to+Hello%3C%2Fhead%3E%3Cbody%3E%3Cpar+duration%3D%5C%228s%5C%22%3E%3CsmileText%3EHello+World%21%3C%2FsmileText%3E%3C%2Fpar%3E%3C%2Fbody%3E%3C%2Fsmil%3E
#
csarven wins the InterCampWebs
#
@benwerd Web apps allow learners to use the device of their choice (or your institutional devices!), on their terms. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609047492777279488)
#
@ken_bauer RT @benwerd: Web apps allow learners to use the device of their choice (or your institutional devices!), on their terms. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609047539912990720)
bengo and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@omnignorant RT @benwerd: Web apps allow learners to use the device of their choice (or your institutional devices!), on their terms. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609048633728573440)
#
@benwerd Enabling people to be homesteaders rather than digital sharecroppers is one of the tenets of the #indieweb: http://indiewebcamp.com #dml2015 (twitter.com/_/status/609050351283490816)
#
Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller posted 'Enabling people to be homesteaders rather than digital sharecroppers is one of the tenets of the #indieweb: http://indiewebcamp.com #dml2015' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://werd.io/2015/enabling-people-to-be-homesteaders-rather-than-digital-sharecroppers-is)
#
KartikPrabhu csarven: marginalia is only an idea to have <p> level comments. Spam is handled by whatever spam-handling system for comments already exists
#
@ken_bauer RT @benwerd: Enabling people to be homesteaders rather than digital sharecroppers is one of the tenets of the #indieweb: http://t.co/hQkBbd… (twitter.com/_/status/609051529379631104)
#
@rapella RT @benwerd: One trend in technology that does not help equality: stop developing for iOS / OS X first. Be tech-agnostic. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609051607184060417)
ttepasse joined the channel
#
@benwerd Want to learn more about open platforms, including #indieweb, that you can use to teach & learn today? Meet us in CA Ballroom C. #dml2015 (twitter.com/_/status/609052367800000512)
#
@withknown RT @benwerd: Want to learn more about open platforms, including #indieweb, that you can use to teach & learn today? Meet us in CA Ballroom … (twitter.com/_/status/609052434904805376)
#
aaronpk benwerd: don't forget to mention indiewebcamp portland! :-)
#
benwerd :)
#
benwerd I will make sure to do so!
#
Loqi [bridgy] Ken Bauer retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/ken_bauer/status/609051529379631104)
#
KartikPrabhu what is version?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "version" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=version&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-11%2Fline%2F1434044784218
#
KartikPrabhu what is edit?
#
Loqi An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indiewebcamp.com/edit
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Cherise McBride favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/609050351283490816)
LauraJ, KevinMarks_ and awolf joined the channel
#
@dissolve333 What indieweb app did I post this with? check the footer! (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/6/11/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/609060674954665984)
frzn joined the channel
#
@dshanske @JeffreyKeefer We're working on finding a venue for an Indiewebcamp for July. If we find one, you should come. (twitter.com/_/status/609061267630755840)
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/6/11/3/
#
ben_thatmustbeme we had talked about doing this in the past, i don't know if you ever did
#
Loqi [bridgy] Nabil Maynard favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/609050351283490816)
#
@HongPong anyone wigging out about reddit banning whatever needs to roll up their sleeves and build their own websites, #indiewebcamp style authentict (twitter.com/_/status/609063157009666048)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: nice! yeah i've had it on my posts for a while
#
aaronpk what is credit?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "credit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=credit&summary=prompted+by+aaronpk+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-11%2Fline%2F1434047365225
#
aaronpk hm, forgot what page that's on
#
kylewm what is tools?
#
Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/tools
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i didn't see it on any posts
#
ben_thatmustbeme what trying to find it on one
#
aaronpk all my photos have it from ownyourgram.com
#
aaronpk and my food & drink posts: http://aaron.pk/m4bcLN9
#
aaronpk ah here's the page https://indiewebcamp.com/giving-credit
#
aaronparecki.com created /credit (+26) "r" (view diff)
#
@dshanske @JeffreyKeefer Did you ever install a plugin called Indieweb Taxonomy by any chance? (twitter.com/_/status/609066955325095936)
bengo and Garbee joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /favorite (+358) "/* Twitter */ add favorite interpretation references" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, u-client-id
#
ben_thatmustbeme should be x-u-client-id
#
ben_thatmustbeme :P
#
aaronpk see this is why we shouldn't use x
#
aaronpk because it would actually be u-x-client-id
#
ben_thatmustbeme ahh
#
aaronpk because the first u- is a parsing indicator
#
aaronpk and everybody screws that up
#
ben_thatmustbeme ahh okay
#
rhiaro has screwed that up
#
aaronpk I also don't understand the process. "wait til we see if everyone starts using the x- prefixed experimental property, then decide to move it to core" now everyone go update everything to remove the x-... sure.
#
rhiaro +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, its the css model, allows for better experimentation without conflicting versions
#
ben_thatmustbeme if you don't do that, people will start using the same tag but with different content
#
aaronpk HTTP stopped recommending X- prefixes for experimental headers a while ago
#
ben_thatmustbeme and when you do standardize all the existing versions that didn't happen to do it that way (which people will not bother to update) will be broken
#
aaronpk so pick a good name in the first place?
#
ben_thatmustbeme the idea is that if you see a tag, you can be sure that it should most likely be following a standard
#
aaronpk i still don't understand how you're supposed to go from experimental to standard, when the standard is supposed to be based on actual implementations
#
@Real612 RT @HongPong: anyone wigging out about reddit banning whatever needs to roll up their sleeves and build their own websites, #indiewebcamp s… (twitter.com/_/status/609070597591597056)
#
KevinMarks yeah, I am not a fan of x prefixes
#
KevinMarks it's like vendor prefixes and they worked so well that Tantek had to threaten to implement webkit ones in fairefox
#
KevinMarks s/fairefox/firefox/
#
Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: it's like vendor prefixes and they worked so well that Tantek had to threaten to implement webkit ones in firefox
#
KevinMarks I'd say only use -x- if there is contention over the term
#
ben_thatmustbeme you dont always know you are confllicting
#
ben_thatmustbeme you really cant know
#
kylewm note also that if you use -x- you have to write it down as a proposal on the microformats wiki
#
kylewm if you want to make up something for your own use, use your own prefix
#
kylewm e.g. p-bridgy-
#
KevinMarks we went through this with title
#
kylewm I'm worried y'all are about to propose namespaces
#
KevinMarks http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-classes is useful
#
KevinMarks though probably needs updating
#
ben_thatmustbeme only looks to have mf1
arlen joined the channel
#
KevinMarks so, we used 'title' for job title in hCard, because that's what vcard used
#
ben_thatmustbeme or does it consite hCard and h-card the same?
#
aaronpk existing-classes isn't useful for mf2 because the prefixes solve that problem
#
KevinMarks then we couldn't use 'title' for hAtoms entry title
#
KevinMarks the prefixes partly solve the problem
#
KevinMarks so we used 'entry-title'
#
ben_thatmustbeme need to find that link for proposed classes then when i get back too
#
KevinMarks in h-card we use 'job-title' and in h-entry (which succeeds hAtom) we use 'name'
#
ben_thatmustbeme i used u-x-created-by / p-x-created-by aaronpk uses u-x-client-id
#
ben_thatmustbeme as2 land its called "generator" :/
#
KevinMarks that's from atom
#
aaronpk i used client ID because it's the actual value of the client ID you get during the OAuth flow
#
KevinMarks https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.4
#
KevinMarks 'cos AS1 was Atom
#
ben_thatmustbeme yes, but that assumes oauth flow, could decouple it from micropub method of posting
#
aaronpk "created by" is ambiguous because is that the person who created it?
#
ben_thatmustbeme that was my concern, but there is author, which already server that perpose
#
ben_thatmustbeme its really creating app
#
ben_thatmustbeme but thats not nice at all
#
aaronpk no, client_id is actualyl tied to the token part of OAuth, not necessarily the web login flow
bengo joined the channel
#
KevinMarks twitter calls it "source"
#
KevinMarks should put these cites into /credit
bengo joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /giving-credit (+158) "/* Twitter */ add source" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme okay s/oauth flow/oath/ but you knew what i meant
bengo joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /giving-credit (+363) "/* Atom and activity streams */" (view diff)
mlncn joined the channel
#
aaronpk you might notice many of my posts don't show that, which is because I logged in to my site directly to do those, not using my token endpoint
bengo joined the channel
#
KevinMarks twitter puts "web" in that case
bengo, squeakytoy2, minsky, Dash315 and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek Hey Loqi, what's new?
#
KevinMarks hm, when I paste an indiewebcamp link into slack, it puts the IWC logo in, becsue of og:image
#
tantek that's pretty funny
#
tantek perhaps the wiki should look for a u-featured image inside the page and use that instead for the og:image
#
aaronpk +1
bengo joined the channel
#
KevinMarks if the wiki put the p-summary in og:description that would be good
#
tantek then we can u-featured to all the template markup for the top/topical images per page
#
KevinMarks maybe only the homepage needs the og:image
#
wagle aaronpk: i found the tweet though, i think.. *shrug*
#
tantek KevinMarks: alternatively, perhaps we need to specify an "OpenCards" spec based on microformats on <body> and properties like u-featured, p-summary, and then ask our friends at Slack to parse those too
#
tantek and prefer them to og: metacrap
#
KevinMarks or just parse h-entry, but yes
#
tantek "just parse h-entry" is insufficient, because not everything is an h-entry
#
tantek some things are h-cards, h-events etc.
#
tantek things, pages etc.
#
KevinMarks true
#
tantek the top level h-* class on <body> is akin to og:type (I think that's the one)
#
tantek so all we need to do is define a mapping
almereyda joined the channel
#
tantek I seem to remember ben_thatmustbeme wanted to work on a spec related to microformats, perhaps that would be an easy one to start with :)
#
tantek how overloaded is OpenCards?
#
KevinMarks fairly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCards
#
aaronpk i know! call them... hCards!
#
aaronpk oh wait
#
KevinMarks microcards
#
aaronpk microcards++
#
Loqi microcards has 1 karma
#
KevinMarks indiecards
#
KevinMarks microcard has 8 dead trademarks
#
KevinMarks indiecard has a facebook page claiming ti is trademarked as a music format (it isn't)
#
tantek enwp.org/microcard redirects to microform
#
tantek "similar to microfice, but printed on cardboard" LOL
#
tantek s/microfice/microfiche
#
aaronpk sounds like a great idea
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: "similar to microfiche, but printed on cardboard" LOL
#
KevinMarks hypecards ;)
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: re posts not showing it. thats exactly my point, you don't have a client ID for your own site, or if for example it were posted by some other API
j12t joined the channel
#
csarven Ted Nelson from the 60s called, please stop abusing the terms hyper*.
#
aaronpk cybercards
#
tantek csarven++
#
Loqi csarven has 4 karma
#
KevinMarks xanaducards
#
tantek xanards
#
csarven tantek Gold medal winner of today: https://twitter.com/csarven/status/608951961577222144
#
@csarven .@W3C's Digital Publishing Activity discussing "use case: page based scholarly reference". Thumbs up to imitating paper on electronic media (twitter.com/_/status/608951961577222144)
#
tantek SMH
#
tantek microcard seems heavily overloaded already too, dfn in m-w etc.
#
csarven I can't help it.. we are surrounded.
#
tantek csarven: I use this: Step 1: always ask for citations. Step 2: ask for publicly accessible (w/o login/clickthru-license) URL citations on the web. Step 3: ask for publicly accessible (w/o login/clickthru-license) URL citations on the web that return a 100% open text-based format, e.g. HTML
#
tantek (though that obv allows for plain text, perhaps CSV/TSV, etc.)
#
tantek (100% open *human readable* text-based format)
scoates_ and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
csarven All "web page" content should be Line Mode Browser friendly.
#
tantek csarven++ is on a roll today
#
tantek anyway - looks like indiecard is the least overloaded, and references are minor / niche enough to use it for an openly Independent web preview/Card format
#
tantek shall we give folks to 24hrs to bikeshed the name further?
Phae joined the channel
#
tantek what is indiecard?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiecard" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indiecard&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-11%2Fline%2F1434053513714
#
tantek indiecard is a brainstorming proposal for an open [[link-preview]] and [[cards]] standard based on using [[microformat]] root h-* class names on the body element, and re-using microformats properties such as p-name, p-summary, u-photo, u-featured to provide functionality equivalent to Facebook's [[OGP]], [[Twitter Cards]], and other proprietary/corp-driven efforts.
#
loqi.me created /indiecard (+394) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-11/line/1434053513714 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
tantek ^^^ aaronpk, KevinMarks feel free to document the alternative names proposed, and reasons for rejecting (e.g. overloading, existing dfn etc.)
#
tantek !tell ben_thatmustbeme interested in helping specify /indiecards (or whatever we end up calling them) ? jump on in and expand upon the summary.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
awolf joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme seems pretty simple to just take first h-card and grab those values from it
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 13 minutes ago: interested in helping specify /indiecards (or whatever we end up calling them) ? jump on in and expand upon the summary. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-11/line/1434053742984
#
aaronpk there may not be an h-card
#
KevinMarks_ Not all pages are hcards
#
ben_thatmustbeme er rather not h-card
#
ben_thatmustbeme but first top level item
#
KevinMarks_ First h-*
#
ben_thatmustbeme h- level
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah
#
KevinMarks_ So items[0] of the mf2 output?
#
ben_thatmustbeme yes
tilgovi joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ May get misled by headers
#
KevinMarks_ But worth a try
#
ben_thatmustbeme fault lies with the manufacturer then, we already discussed that items[0] is what is defined by the URL. you cannot refer to items[1] unless it has its own URL
#
ben_thatmustbeme came up when discussing how to subscribe to the second h-feed on a page
#
ben_thatmustbeme the h-feed should have its own URL
#
KevinMarks_ What if items[0] has a different u-url?
#
ben_thatmustbeme mmmm, good question, i would say follow the u-url first
#
ben_thatmustbeme it would be likely to have more data
#
ben_thatmustbeme opengraph goes kinda crazy with og:image:type og:image:width ... didn't html figure that out a long time ago... the file itself contains that info, you don't need to specify it unless you are styling it
eschnou and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
@BillSeitz RT @benwerd: Enabling people to be homesteaders rather than digital sharecroppers is one of the tenets of the #indieweb: http://t.co/hQkBbd… (twitter.com/_/status/609102839642607616)
#
@BillSeitz RT @benwerd: Web apps allow learners to use the device of their choice (or your institutional devices!), on their terms. #dml2015 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609103043984957440)
tantek joined the channel
#
@schock @benwerd except for that whole settler colonialism and native genocide thing? #indieweb #dml2015 (twitter.com/_/status/609105871130378240)
#
tantek wat
#
aaronpk yeah see that's why we stopped using that term
#
aaronpk (homesteader vs sharecropper)
#
tantek ohhh ok
#
Loqi [bridgy] Sasha Costanza-Chock replied '@benwerd except for that whole settler colonialism and native genocide thing? #indieweb #dml2015' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/schock/status/609105871130378240)
#
tantek what is homesteading
#
Loqi Homesteading is a personal publishing platform project (created with Ruby on Rails) where the creator owns the content https://indiewebcamp.com/Homesteading
#
Loqi [bridgy] Bill Seitz retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/BillSeitz/status/609102839642607616)
#
tantek well, it's just a specific project, and perhaps that's ok and up to the individual(s) involved to decide what to do with
#
aaronpk no it was in presentations and on the home page and stuff
#
tantek did we drop it?
#
aaronpk i *think* all references (except that project) have been removed, but not totally sure
#
tantek or are there still lingering references?
#
tantek ok
#
tantek what is homesteader?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "homesteader" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=homesteader&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-11%2Fline%2F1434057407470
#
tantek perhaps create a small stub noting it's a legacy term and why we stopped using it?
#
tantek cite that tweet etc.
#
aaronpk oh, sharescrop is still everywhere: https://indiewebcamp.com/sharecrop
#
tantek as a negative, and that's ok
#
aaronpk it's slightly less bad yes
#
tantek it has intentionally negative implications yes
#
@benwerd @schock That is actually crucial feedback. You're right, and #indieweb should probably move away from that language. (twitter.com/_/status/609107557467041792)
#
tantek benwerd++
#
Loqi benwerd has 78 karma
#
@schock @benwerd glad you agree! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609108680353562625)
#
Loqi [bridgy] Sasha Costanza-Chock replied '@benwerd glad you agree! #indieweb' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/schock/status/609108680353562625)
#
Loqi [bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@schock That is actually crucial feedback. You're right, and #indieweb should probably move away from that language.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/609107557467041792)
#
tantek.com moved /Homesteading_and_No_More_Sharecropping to /2011/Homesteading_and_No_More_Sharecropping "move to a year / session specific URL to indicate dated nature (session from [[2011]]) and not a current thing"
#
tantek aaronpk, want to clarify that indieweb community never really adopted it as a generic term, and its use was specific to one 2011 session and two specific projects - or maybe that should go on a wiki page
#
aaronpk i can reply that
#
aaronpk maybe worth noting on the /sharecrop page?
#
tantek no
#
tantek don't conflate different terms unnecessarily
#
tantek this is about the problem of using "homesteading"
#
aaronpk i don't think it's worth making a page for it then...
#
aaronpk if we've never had a page for it before
#
tantek well we have projects with that name
#
tantek and had a 2011 session with that in the name
#
aaronpk maybe appropriate to add to the 2011 session page then
#
tantek and benwerd thought it was a generic enough term to use in his presentation
#
tantek which indicates to me a need to create a page specifically to recommend avoiding using it
#
aaronpk wait, this was in a presentation? I thought it was just that post
#
kylewm note that benwerd's tweet mentioned both homesteading and sharecropping
#
tantek benwerd is giving a talk today is he not?
#
aaronpk no idea. I just thought that was a tweet from attending a conference
#
tantek kylewm: note that the specific criticism "whole settler colonialism" applies directly to what homesteading was historically, nothing to do with what sharecropping was historically
#
kylewm ok
#
tantek though if you think it's ambiguous from the tweet criticism, feel free to ask for clarification from the source
#
ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indiecard (+226) "add ideas for using first h-* item" (view diff)
j12t_ and almereyda joined the channel
#
@aaronpk @benwerd FWIW #indieweb never adopted it as a generic term, it was only used in a 2011 session name and two specific projects. cc @schock (twitter.com/_/status/609113831802073088)
#
@benwerd @aaronpk Then it's my mistake, for which I apologize! @schock #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/609114071460249601)
dym_cx, j12t_ and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes that makes sense for consuming code. for publishers we should say SHOULD use <body class="h-*"> but must use the first h-* on their page wherever they put it.
benwerd joined the channel
#
benwerd /nick benwerd_web
benwerd_web, todrobbins, j12t, j12t_, lukebrooker, tantek, mlncn, dym_cx, KevinMarks_, mdik_ and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/101890076819383#10203643450182791 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club
rbrt joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/101890076819383#10152960969736947 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club
#
Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/101890076819383#10103840847068493 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-17-homebrew-website-club
sivoais joined the channel