#indiewebcamp 2015-06-23

2015-06-23 UTC
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kylewm /v2.3/me gives "link": "http://www.facebook.com/12802152", but i'm guessing for a new app, you'll get the app-scoped ID there instead
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kylewm and it doesn't seem to have facebook.com/kyle.mahan in there at all...
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kylewm I think this might be a deal-breaker ben_thatmustbeme :(
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kylewm yeah, confirmed, for a newer app, i get back
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kylewm "link": "https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/10101059883222449/",
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snarfed yup. that's the exact intent of app scoped user ids
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snarfed more: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350 , https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/375
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acegiak kylewm: your salmention comment parsing doesn't seem to have picked up the second comment here: https://acegiak.net/2015/06/22/i-get-it-where-lost-was-unrelentingly-focused-on-father-issues-sense-8-is-the-same-about-mothers/
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kylewm Inoticed that too :(
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ben_thatmustbeme Kylewm, ive come to that conclusion too
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kylewm acegiak: I see, the second comment doesn't have a u-url for some reason
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acegiak kylewm: oh! I hadn't noticed that
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acegiak I'll see if I can fix that
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kylewm do you exclude the "via" link when it's from your own domain?
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KevinMarks_ hm, the hcard on https://twitter.com/intent/user?user_id=57203 puts the external URL inside the <p class="adr">
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KevinMarks_ which is a bit odd
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KevinMarks_ mf2py makes url a field of adr, not sure what a classic mf1 parser would do
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acegiak kylewm: no, I think I've failed to fill a field
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acegiak but really I think the via isn't entirely necessary
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acegiak the permalink is already on the date link
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acegiak GWG: The "-via example.com" link in semantic linkbacks that has the u-url maybe shouldn't appear in the comment content block?
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kylewm +1 to removing it from e-content!
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acegiak I was thinking of just marking up the default comment permalink with u-url
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gRegorLove I'm thinking we should link /code-of-conduct on IWC pages like /2015, and maybe from the Guest_List page as well.
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gRegorLove Not sure the language. "Please familiarize yourself with /code-of-conduct"?
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GWG acegiak: In my changes to mf2_s or in stock Semantic Linkbacks?
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acegiak GWG: On my site I've just removed the "via" line from semantic linkbacks
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acegiak and added u-url to the comment permalink in mf2_s
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acegiak and now the full chain is going through to kylewm.com
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gregorlove.com edited /code-of-conduct (+155) "/* Signed */" (view diff)
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kylewm acegiak: I like how the smiley turned into an emoticon here https://kylewm.com/2015/06/i-get-it-where-lost-was-unrelentingly-focused-on
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GWG acegiak: In the latest version of mf2_s, I don't use the comment_text.
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GWG So no via.
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GWG I put it elsewhere.
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GWG Have a look at my website, you'll see in the posts.
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GWG gRegorLove: What have I asked about before?
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Loqi slack/tantek: Gregor the code of conduct has been linked on IWC event pages for quite some time - check past pages.
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Loqi slack/tantek: If it's not on a current event page, it likely got accidentally dropped when copy/pasting creating the page
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Loqi slack/tantek: Look at /2014 examples and copy past accordingly to any /2015 indiewebcamp event pages that are missing it.
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gRegorLove Doesn't appear to be on /2015. I'll look at last years
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gRegorLove I'm not seeing it on /2014 either
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Loqi slack/tantek: Eg /2014/Cambridge ought to have it
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Loqi slack/tantek: Did you do a view source and look for the link? Or it's just not obviously there?
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gRegorLove Yeah, I'm view source searching "conduct"
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Loqi slack/tantek: Makes sense
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gRegorLove Got it on Cambridge. Thanks
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Loqi slack/tantek: Cool. Now I don't remember when we first started adding it to IWC event pages.
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gregorlove.com edited /2015 (+38) "/* Participating */ +Code of Conduct" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Oh, duh. i forgot about the "what links to this page" functionality
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gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:WhatLinksHere/code-of-conduct
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gRegorLove /2014/UK looks like
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gRegorLove GWG: how to discover indieweb content
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GWG That's always been an issue
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Loqi slack/tantek: What is search?
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Loqi slack/tantek: What is discovery?
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acegiak does loqi not answer those prompts from the slack bridge because he hears them as himself or does he display the responses in slack but not irc?
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gRegorLove Don't think he listens to himself. I don't think Loqi posts directly to slack
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acegiak GWG: You have a second permalink showing the comment domain?
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GWG Yes
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acegiak I've added u-url to the normal permalink incase the second one isn't there?
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GWG acegiak: Oh?
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acegiak are there situations where that might happen?
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acegiak or am I imagining a situation that wouldn't occur?
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GWG Only a like or such. Not a reply.
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acegiak GWG: hmm ok. I think I'll leave it in there then. cause a like or repost still needs a u-url?
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GWG They just wouldn't have the via
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snarfed GWG: i think the point is that consumers like salmentions still need a u-url for programmatic use cases
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GWG snarfed: WordPress filters it. See the source code
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KartikPrabhu what are salmentions?
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Loqi Salmentions are a way to pass comments upstream by sending a webmention from a reply post to the original post when the reply recieves a comment https://indiewebcamp.com/salmentions
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KartikPrabhu so on "salmention" the original post need not verify the original of the reply-to-reply?
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KartikPrabhu using u-url ?
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GWG acegiak, snarfed: My solution was on my new theme, I display the comment text without using the filter. Which isn't ideal
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@d_m_n RT @pierreozoux: Better than a twitter list, an OPML file! #indieweb FTW! https://github.com/kilimchoi/engineering-blogs#rss-feeds https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/better-than-a-twitter-list-an-opml-file-indieweb-ftw (twitter.com/_/status/613184472964595712)
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: my implementation doesn't
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KartikPrabhu what is like?
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Loqi like is a popular webaction button and in some cases post type on various silos such as Facebook and Instagram (uses a heart ♥) https://indiewebcamp.com/like
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek struggling with text-first design of likes which enhance to facepiles. any suggestions?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: what's the point of doing text-first design with an end goal in mind?
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KartikPrabhu what is text-first design?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "text-first design" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=text-first+design&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-22%2Fline%2F1435033945120
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KartikPrabhu woah!
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: the idea is to have a good text representation of any response, then suitably mark it up. The goal being it is better for consumption like readers or for notifications and possibly "salmentions"
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KartikPrabhu if I markup likes in a particular way and send you a "salmention" of it you might want to display it differently
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KartikPrabhu but you should still have the basic text-representation with suitable HTML markup
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kylewm what is a facepile?
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Loqi The Facepile is a design element popularized by Facebook https://indiewebcamp.com/facepile
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kylewm not really a definition
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kylewm facebook doesn't have facepiles anymore i guess? they are just "Name, Name, and N more like this photo"
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KartikPrabhu Twitter still does
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kylewm both compress them more than we can
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KartikPrabhu as in?
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kylewm https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/611675003436843008
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@POTUS Inspired by what @Pontifex wrote on climate change. Agree we have a moral responsibility to act to protect our kids and God's creation. (twitter.com/_/status/611675003436843008)
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kylewm 9.3k favorites, 8 of them shown in the facepile
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KartikPrabhu oh I see. that should be do-able with some JS "more" link but I have no idea how to do it prog-enhanced at the moment without having a separate page for the list of likes of a post
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 48 minutes ago: struggling with text-first design of likes which enhance to facepiles. any suggestions? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-22/line/1435033776002
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Loqi [mention] Timo Reitnauer posted 'My new domain name based web presence 4 min read A few weeks...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Known (http://updates.reitnauer.com/2015/my-new-domain-name-based-web-presence)
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gRegorLove Flickr can apparently add tags to photos that look like people are in them, and group shots. One of mine had both "people" and "groupshot" tags automatically.
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acegiak what is progressively enhanced?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "progressively enhanced" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=progressively+enhanced&summary=prompted+by+acegiak+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-22%2Fline%2F1435038262052
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acegiak what is progressive enhancement?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive enhancement" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=progressive+enhancement&summary=prompted+by+acegiak+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-22%2Fline%2F1435038286794
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: couldn't you do CSS for a facepile like
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acegiak .hcard not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak sorry
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acegiak .hcard :not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak /s/hcard/h-card/
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acegiak ugh
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acegiak .h-card :not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak and then jQuery(".h-card").click(function(){jQuery(this).children().show();}) ?
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KartikPrabhu bleh jquery
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acegiak can someone give me the elevator of the criticisms of jQuery?
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KartikPrabhu too big a library to do very little
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: if I were doing a show/hide without requesting more data I'd use this: http://www.lottejackson.com/blog/building-a-css-toggle-feature-with-checked-and-flexbox
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acegiak fair enough. I'll admit size considerations have pretty much left my brain these days
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: see show/hide implementation with pure CSS here: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: that's super neat!
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KartikPrabhu yup no JS at all if not requesting more data
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acegiak I think in my own stuff: A) that approach relies slightly to much on arcane CSS box-model manipulation for my own taste and B) In wordpress jquery is already loaded so I can just piggyback off that
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: arcane box-model??
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KartikPrabhu also B) is not an issue for me. I void jquery like I avoid err... bad fried food ... ?
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: disregard A) I was misreading the flexbox bit in the first link
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: flexbox is used there only to move the toggle button below the revealed content. On my page I skipped all that
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acegiak I see a lot of CSS Tricks using things like "If we make this a float with a certain kind of positioning it disappears 8000px off the side of the page which is pretty much the same as hidden"
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KartikPrabhu yeah, I try to avoid "magic numbers" or explicilty mark them as such so I can fix them when I figure stuff out better
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KartikPrabhu also flexbox is very confusing so haven't used it anywhere yet
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gRegorLove I've read that native JS functionality is pretty stable across browsers now, so most of the basic jQuery things can be done without it. I have not delved into that much myself, though.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: I have managed to do without jquery so far
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KartikPrabhu small JS code that does little things you want, instead of giant libraries that do very little
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gRegorLove Cool. I should clarify it's long been possible to do jQuery-ish without jQuery... just that now we don't have junk like IE6 and 7 to worry about compatibility with, so native JS makes more sense in more cases
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gRegorLove It was definitely nice to just drop in jQuery and know that I could do something cross-browser :)
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: progressive enhancement takes care fo older browsers but it takes some foresight and skill to do well
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KartikPrabhu tbh I don't think margialia.js is progressive enhanced yet and I am a bit confused as to how to do it well
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KartikPrabhu s/margialia.js/marginalia.js
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: tbh I don't think marginalia.js is progressive enhanced yet and I am a bit confused as to how to do it well
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KartikPrabhu also see: http://youmightnotneedjquery.com/
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KartikPrabhu what is jquery?
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Loqi jQuery is a popular JavaScript framework https://indiewebcamp.com/jQuery
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kylewm I like jquery :-)
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KartikPrabhu like bad fried food ;)
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KartikPrabhu you know it isn't good for you, but is so easy :P
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acegiak If jQuery is already there for wordpress I may as well use it's convenience without worrying about extra calories.
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KartikPrabhu well my argument would be jquery shouldn't be already there for wordpress, but oh well
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: probably not but it's not going anywhere quickly
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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KartikPrabhu one of the reasons I code my website from scratch. all these frameworks and things I don't need
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kylewm Theme specific?
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acegiak kylewm: pretty sure it loads it up for it's generic navbar and dashboard?
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acegiak wordpress core has a function which gets you the instance of Jquery it has loaded.
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gRegorLove Yeah, jQuery is on by default in WordPress. A hook in the theme can remove it, though (from the front end)
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gRegorLove I've seen a lot of plugins with the bad habit of including their own jQuery version, so 2 or 3 separate jQuery are called on the front end.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: ughhh really!?
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gRegorLove Yeah. WordPress is . . . special.
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KartikPrabhu is glad to saty away from it
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revere it awesome
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: Updating your 'like' display, is that was I read?
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: yes. thinkning of updating non-reply displays
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tantek good late evening #indiewebcamp
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tantek KartikPrabhu: did you figure out facepiles of likes?
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tantek and good late evening #indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu not in a text-first way
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KartikPrabhu also good very late evening tantek
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tantek ah - is this for salmentions receivers that don't support likes?
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tantek are there any of those?
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tantek because I'd expect salmentions receivers to support showing likes on the comments on their posts
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no salmention stuff yet. Just want to have good text and markup on my like display
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tantek like or likes?
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tantek what is a like?
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Loqi like is a popular webaction button and in some cases post type on various silos such as Facebook and Instagram (uses a heart ♥) https://indiewebcamp.com/like
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tantek what are likes?
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Loqi likes are sometimes part of the information about a post displayed on the post itself, sometimes in a post footer https://indiewebcamp.com/likes
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tantek see they're different :)
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KartikPrabhu the second one. like-responses to my post
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tantek KartikPrabhu: what do you think of Facebook's text-only display of likes?
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KartikPrabhu they seem fine but on an indieweb site without the "show 54 more" type UI a big list of names is not ideal
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tantek sees a mention of "arcane CSS box-model manipulation" in the logs and cracks his knuckles
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KartikPrabhu oh judas priest! :P
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tantek reads jQuery debates, looks for popcorn, finds none.
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KartikPrabhu was making do with some whiskey! ;)
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tantek hmm - all the examples on http://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ make it look like your code is much smaller *with* jquery than without.
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tantek aaronpk: is there anyway to find out which wiki pages were created in 2014?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: except of course you need the humongous jquery library it self
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KartikPrabhu the point is you almost never need to to do all of those at once and so it is more "economical" to write vanilla JS to do small things
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tantek KartikPrabhu: oh I agree - I'm just pointing out that the examples are not really selling the point ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: hmmm yeah I would agree. I would have size of jquery + jquery example vs size of vanilla code :)
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acegiak I think that the point that youmightnotneedjquery.com inadvertantly makes is that jquery is heavier but quicker to write
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acegiak and vice-versa
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tantek yeah
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KartikPrabhu thinks that is a strange twist on "make things easier for publishing" argument
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@KashCorp WTF? C'est quoi ce site! #Indieweb https://kash.space/2015/wtf-cest-quoi-ce-site-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613291947671863296)
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tantek interesting bit of indieweb related history, before we even started calling all of this "indieweb" - csarven propose rel="in-reply-to" back in 2008! http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming#User_comment_entries
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tantek and our current u-in-reply-to microformats2 property is based on rel=in-reply-to
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tantek what is in-reply-to?
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Loqi in-reply-to is a rel value for use where a post permalink page is a reply to another post https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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tantek there you go
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@pierreozoux Une très bonne introduction á l'#IndieWeb! https://kash.space/2015/wtf-cest-quoi-ce-site-indieweb https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/une-trs-bonne-introduction-lindieweb-2015wtf-cest-quoi-ce-site-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613303663080120320)
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tantek !tell aaronpk is there any way to get a list of wiki pages created in 2014?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think so, maybe by going into the database directly
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csarven rel=in-reply-to was first and arguably most notably (to the best of my knowledge) implemented on the StatusNet platform for "conversations", i.e., a thread of status updates in reply to one another across StatusNet instances. The original intention was to link an hentry URL to another hentry URL (which may or may not be the full doc or a fragment in a doc). In parallel, I have used in-reply-to on
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csarven my own site's comments. Glad that in-reply-to stuck and made its way to mf2.
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tantek.com created /Template:csarven (+146) "create it since I used it" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+262) "/* 2008 */ rel=in-reply-to in HTML proposed by csarven on microformats wiki" (view diff)
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tantek csarven - do you know when that was implemented (deployed publicly) in Statusnet?
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csarven Most likely in 2008.
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tantek csarven, also, what's your earliest use of in-reply-to on your site's comments? (hopefully with a permalink)
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csarven Same time.
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tantek cool - if you find dated permalinks for those let me know!
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csarven I'm not sure about the earliest use, but the example in the wiki gives it away :) i.e., #comment_20080902144745 . I have since broke that "cool URI" and changed it to #comment-20080902144745. URL for that is http://csarven.ca/my-responses-are-in-white#comment-20080902214745
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tantek hah - good point. :)0
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csarven I imagine that is a fairly close date to actual test/use/implementation.
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+105) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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GWG Good morning
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adactio.com edited /Main_Page (+92) "/* IndieWebCamp 2015 */" (view diff)
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tommorris a little teaser - http://cl.ly/image/3x2a0n0H360G
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tommorris adding i18n support to the next version of ferocity
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ see adactio's edit - should we make a similar edit for Portland since you setup tito for Portland also?
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@FromTheWastes Bioflash Short Stories by @nrburnette – What are they?... https://fromthewastes11811.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/bioflash-short-stories-by-n-r-burnette-what-are-they/ #amreading #amwriting #indieauth # https://twitter.com/FromTheWastes/status/613315693354856448/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613315693354856448)
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tommorris.org edited /internationalization (+24) "fixing link to Basic Bilingual as Steph's site seems to be broken (a database error - [[database-antipattern]]?)" (view diff)
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GWG pfefferle: I've been thinking about yesterday's discussion.
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@Andre0Ani RT @pierreozoux: Une très bonne introduction á l'#IndieWeb! https://kash.space/2015/wtf-cest-quoi-ce-site-indieweb https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/une-trs-bonne-introduction-lindieweb-2015wtf-cest-quoi-ce-site-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613316938329161728)
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tommorris.org edited /internationalization (+263) "/* Solutions */ adding pointer to Django and GNU Gettext" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris: is there an approach to /i18n that you use in Ferocity?
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tommorris tantek: I'm building ferocity2 (which I'm hoping to open source) and am using Django and gettext
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tantek tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 82 karma
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Zegnat Haven’t looked yet, but might as well ask now that we are on the topic, is there a recommended way of linking translations of posts/notes together?
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tantek Zegnat - HTML has hreflang="" and rel="alternate"
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tantek on a page to page granularity
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tommorris beta posting UI in pt-BR: http://cl.ly/image/3o0i3V0w1g2F :)
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Zegnat if rel="alternate" works on the page level it means I can’t include the translation links on feed pages? That sounds annoying. I will need to put some research in when I get back from my vacation
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@AlexKKearney Here's a tweet to test out my text processing #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/6/23/heres-an (twitter.com/_/status/613321556668887040)
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@AlexKKearney Here's a tweet to test out my text processing #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/6/23/im-just-m (twitter.com/_/status/613321630085947392)
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tantek Zegnat - you can include the translation links on the permalink pages
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tantek for a feed page, you should use rel="alternate" hreflang=".." to link to the whole feed in a different language
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Zegnat true, but I do not think I will be translating all my posts
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Zegnat the blog system I am working on now will work with lang="" on a per-post level in the feed. So the feed is mixed-language. Just looking into how best to handle the case where I publish the same content in several languages (which will be the odd-post-out)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+96) "/* 2013 */ event W3C Workshop on Social Standards" (view diff)
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csarven tantek If I'm not mistaken, the first time in-reply-to was introduced to StatusNet was here https://github.com/csarven/statusnet/commit/46b1e2fcec9ff084496a4ac11a65c1673f92e1f0
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tantek nice find!
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tantek did statusnet consume rel=in-reply-to? or just publish?
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csarven Publish. We didn't consume any mf to my knowledge.
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+181) "/* 2009 */ first implementation to publish rel=in-reply-to" (view diff)
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@AlexKKearney Woo! Finished up a prototype UI. Now I can at least syndicate to twitter. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/6/23/woo-finis (twitter.com/_/status/613327122996850688)
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csarven Perhaps you already know, but StatusNet had a complete "read API" available through mf
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+3) "/* 2009 */ '''" (view diff)
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csarven If we go with the date of the proposal in the wiki, it was 2008-10-03 on my site.
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tantek do you remember if you experimented with coding it on your site before your proposal? or coded it after proposal?
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csarven Definitely implemented before the wiki ;)
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csarven ducks
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csarven Not sure what the "process" is around here.. propose->implement or implement->propose or ..
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tantek csarven: on the indieweb - there's a lot of experimentation on personal sites, before/after proposals, perhaps even without a proposal, just quietly
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csarven Sounds good.
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tantek usually it's less work to ask about it first, because someone else might know of an existing solution
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tantek but people go experiment on their own anyway, and that's fine too
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csarven http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations#StatusNet
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csarven I wonder how much of the current SN/GNU Social retained the mf
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csarven Such is the "cost" of moving on from projects - all the work could just disappear overnight or someone else takes it further.
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MMN-o csarven: I made some patches to microformats2
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MMN-o for GNU social
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MMN-o didn't bother to retain the old format
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MMN-o csarven: and we use the PHP library for reading mf2, so we're backwards compatible on discovery.
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csarven MMN-o++
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Loqi MMN-o has 1 karma
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csarven Awesome! Just spotted mf2 andHTML5 use.
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csarven is delighted!
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MMN-o csarven: Most people use the Qvitter plugin nowadays though, so client-side javascript logic is required to parse a lot of sites ;)
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MMN-o Somewhat unfortunate, but it's mostly a pragmatic thing because people enjoy that interface more. Personally I prefer the old interface.
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csarven I was just looking at one of the conversations, haven't spoted in-reply-to yet
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tantek not even u-in-reply-to?
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csarven I was just looking at this example: https://loadaverage.org/conversation/7003108 -- I don't know how much of the source differs across these instances
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MMN-o csarven: I think I would've preserved it if I ran into it while migrating.
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MMN-o csarven: So either it disappeared before GNU social or I should just put it back in.
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MMN-o csarven: I'll have a look in the commit logs later, thanks!
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csarven I designed/UXed up to 0.9 or something.. sometime 2010Q1?
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MMN-o A lot of things were enterprisified in StatusNet 1.x
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MMN-o Nevertheless, I'll put it back in when I get back into town and can sit down for a while :)
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csarven quitter.se appears to use @data-in-reply-to-status-id
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csarven That's a local id
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tantek not a permalink then?
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csarven No. Closed the tabs.. but it was 0-9+
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tantek sorry no I meant quitter.se is using a local id no t a globa permalink in their reply-tos
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tantek or asking
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csarven Right.
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+375) "2014 vouch concept, term, spec, implementations" (view diff)
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tantek re: wiki in 2014 - what other (besides /Vouch ) indieweb technologies / proposals happened in 2014?
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+220) "stub a 2014 Technologies section with Vouch, let's add more by analyzing 2014 IWC demo notes" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i was testing out logstore
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ben_thatmustbeme oops, nevermind, that was 2015
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ben_thatmustbeme indieconfig?
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snarfed bridgy added most of its features in 2014
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/2014-11-06_happy-1000th-bridgy has some summary details
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-74) "update home page with link to ticket registration" (view diff)
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snarfed in other news bridgy is almost at 2k users! https://www.brid.gy/#stats says 1987 right now
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ben_thatmustbeme nice
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 30 minutes ago: is there any way to get a list of wiki pages created in 2014? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-23/line/1435058686311
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aaronpk tantek: i updated the home page to link to the ti.to registration page like brighton
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dym.cx edited /Big_Boring_System (+198) "+ == Site death ==" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: I have a list of all the pages created in 2014
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aaronpk 2061
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tantek whoa
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aaronpk that includes file uploads
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aaronpk and like 100 emoji pages :P
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tantek I don't suppose we could stick that in a list somewhere like /2014-created ?
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tantek with a line like this for each one
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tantek * [[Vouch]]
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aaronpk what is 😍?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%98%8D
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tantek saved by the double-redirect
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aaronpk what order? date created or alpha?
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tantek always with the hard questions
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aaronpk I could include the date as well
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tantek oh boy I know where this is going
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aaronpk you do? cause i don't
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tantek * <span class="h-entry"><time class="dt-published">YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS</time>: <span class="p-name">[[Vouch]]</span></span>
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aaronpk heh
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tantek and yes, since you mentioned included the date, let's do date order
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+83) "/* Technologies */ indie-config" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2014/Brighton (+21) "r UK" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /2014-created (+274459) "all pages created in 2014" (view diff)
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aaronpk omg that's a huge page
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aaronpk oh no haha the images are inline
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ben_thatmustbeme i blame loqi's X is Y function for that 2061 number
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Loqi is done
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014-created (+1800) "thumbnail images" (view diff)
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tantek now try it in a reader :)
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tantek "Error creating thumbnail: libgomp: "
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aaronpk some of the images are bad apparently
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tantek ok that page is amazing
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aaronpk should i exclude redirects?
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aaronpk takes it down to 1164 actual pages
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ben_thatmustbeme should run one of these every year
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ben_thatmustbeme or month
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aaronpk 582 pages created in 2013 (not including redirects)
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aaronpk 167 in 2012
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aaronpk 115 in 2011
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aaronpk 524 so far in 2015
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ben_thatmustbeme 524 and we are half way through the year... we need to pick up the pace if we want to beat 2014!
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140606-032158.jpg "Spam"
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, this is definitely helping see spam
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aaronpk the redirects aren't super helpful to have in that list right?
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think so
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ben_thatmustbeme other than seeing all the emoji abuse :P
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: the photo right next to the one you deleted is spam too
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aaronpk i dont know where that was in the list, kyle linked to it
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ben_thatmustbeme date is in the filename
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ben_thatmustbeme http://indiewebcamp.com/File:20140606-032157.jpg
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140606-032157.jpg "Spam"
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014-created () "(-102597) remove redirects, add namespace for templates, add name of the file" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme WTF... i was about to split that page in to months so its easier to edit
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ben_thatmustbeme but i can't edit the whole thing... it died half way through getting all the wikitext of it
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aaronpk please don't. it's generated by a sql query and if it's edited i won't be able to batch update easily
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ben_thatmustbeme group by month then?
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tantek_ aaronpk - maybe generate a header at the top that says auto-generated, please don't edit :)
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tantek_ ben_thatmustbeme - why are you trying to edit history? ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, was going to remove spam links
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ben_thatmustbeme searching is easier by month
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tantek_ what spam links? thought we deleted all those
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tantek_ aaronpk - it's not showing deleted pages is it?
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aaronpk no, it's querying the pages table and deleting actually removes it from there
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@gRegorLove I dreamed I was at IndieWebCamp and there were over 100 attendees. I also saw Cher was leading a session, so now I don't know what to think. (twitter.com/_/status/613378653490057216)
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gRegorLove True story
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek_: we just found and removed 2 spam images that we found because of this page
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ben_thatmustbeme just was going to put month headers to make it easier to get around that list
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@tedcurran Is it possible to sync photos from phone to yr #wordpress blog’s media storage like you’d do to Dropbox or @googlephotos? #Indieweb #WP #API (twitter.com/_/status/613379186401546240)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014-created (+136) "please don't edit" (view diff)
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@dreamb0t RT @gRegorLove: I dreamed I was at IndieWebCamp and there were over 100 attendees. I also saw Cher was leading a session, so now I don't kn… (twitter.com/_/status/613379322598920192)
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@adamprocter annoying that the @tweetbot / new twitter quote format only works with Twitter Url shortener I use yourls to track mine #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613379822086176768)
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@MissChristmann How is data being used to improve our abilities as professionals?! #ownyourdata #ncns15 @rockECHSprin @EThompson_22 (twitter.com/_/status/613381466643415040)
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@rockECHSprin RT @MissChristmann: How is data being used to improve our abilities as professionals?! #ownyourdata #ncns15 @rockECHSprin @EThompson_22 (twitter.com/_/status/613381706469519361)
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@MusicHackFest Is it possible to sync photos from phone to yr #wordpress blog’s media storage like you’d do to Dropbox or googlephotos? #Indieweb #WP #API (twitter.com/_/status/613382731490271232)
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tantek aaronpk++ for /2014-created !
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Loqi aaronpk has 860 karma
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+289) "link to 2014-created" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Should http://indiewebcamp.com/File:Known-logo.png be removed and hotlinked instead?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk i tried to do that to others
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "update next HWC date" (view diff)
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nedorito anyone have experience introducing children to the indie web?
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nedorito middle school or high school age, how to build and maintain a personal website?
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rhiaro nedorito: I've got a few started with html/css and ftp to my shared hosting over the last few months
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rhiaro I also started setting up Known for my kid's programming club with the idea that I'd get them all on there, then gradually migrate them to their own indieweb sites... but didn't quite get everything set up
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rhiaro We have a few who get a hard time at school cos they don't want to be on facebook and all of their friends are, so I'd really like to help them with alternatives. I just haven't had time to push it.
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tantek !tell snarfed do you have a list of new Bridgy features in 2014? Even if it's just a list of closed github issues
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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nedorito interesting rhiaro
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nedorito did you follow a lesson plan when introducing them to html/css or sort of wing it then let them ask questions?
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+559) "/* Technologies */ add Services stub with Bridgy, and Applications" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Known (+85) "hotlink logo" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed+closed%3A%3C2015-01-01+closed%3A%3E2014-01-01
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+198) "/* Community Resources */ 1000+ pages created" (view diff)
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tantek thanks aaronpk - that's a good start
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tantek wow 325
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snarfed eh that's mostly bugs
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 9 minutes ago: do you have a list of new Bridgy features in 2014? Even if it's just a list of closed github issues http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-23/line/1435086863755
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aaronpk do you use labels for features?
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aaronpk can add that to the search
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snarfed off the top of my head: publish, likes/reposts/rsvps, blog webmentions are the big ones
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tantek like feature request?
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snarfed aaronpk: no feature label, no
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tantek publish itself was new in 2014?
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kylewm Publish, Webmentions for Blogs, and humbly posse-post-discovery
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snarfed true! sorry kylewm! ppd is a huge one
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tantek aaronpk, do you have a list of what new Micropub clients were deployed in 2014?
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snarfed yeah i may have announced publish at iwc sf
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kylewm lol, snarfed, I missed that you already had a list
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rhiaro nedorito: started them on codeacademy, showed them how to do it in a text editor once they'd got the basics. There are a couple dozen kids all working on different things, so it's not easy to do structured kinds of lessons or anything. They all sort themselves out, mentors lurk to help out
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gregorlove.com edited /Known-fr (+86) "l'image hotlink" (view diff)
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gRegorLove aaronpk: https://indiewebcamp.com/File:Known-logo.png can be deleted now
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@Mr_Agerston #ownyourdata #NCNS15 https://twitter.com/misschristmann/status/613421146839601152 (twitter.com/_/status/613430279605223425)
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@kresin @aral advocating the Indie manifesto https://ind.ie/about/manifesto/ & announcing #Heartbeat - https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#Heartbeat_project #FacebookFarewellParty (twitter.com/_/status/613431483013955584)
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KartikPrabhu oh dear ^
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@MissChristmann I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613434122841755648)
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Zegnat That “FacebookFarewellParty” isn’t even announced on the ind.ie blog? So much for keeping your information independent
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kylewm it's a distributed party
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Zegnat what is a distributed party?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "distributed party" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=distributed+party&summary=prompted+by+Zegnat+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-23%2Fline%2F1435089684270
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Zegnat could you wikify that for me kylewm? ;)
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kylewm sorry, it was a bad joke :)
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kylewm a distributed party looks a lot like hanging out by yourself
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@Mr_Agerston RT @MissChristmann: I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613437272373989376)
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tantek reads logs
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tantek snarfed, by "likes/reposts/rsvps" do you mean those were new to Bridgy backfeed in 2014?
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snarfed tantek: yes…except i was mistaken, likes and reposts at least were 2013. https://snarfed.org/2013-12-23_bridgy-now-with-likes-and-retweets
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snarfed (found via https://snarfed.org/?s=bridgy)
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tantek so RSVPs were in 2014 then?
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snarfed yeah, found it, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/42
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@kartik_prabhu @kresin to be clear indiewebcamp != ind.ie see: https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp that wiki page is purely for documentation (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-kresin-heartbeat) (twitter.com/_/status/613441603550588928)
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aaronpk hmm i wonder how i'd find a list of new micropub clients
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snarfed heh, this is fun nostalgia. the initial task breakdown for bridgy publish was…big. :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10#issuecomment-34987602
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@kresin RT @kartik_prabhu: @kresin to be clear indiewebcamp != ind.ie see: https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp that wiki page is purely for documentation (http… (twitter.com/_/status/613442082934509568)
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KartikPrabhu oh ok ^ :P
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tantek aaronpk - history of the /Micropub page ?
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aaronpk there are dates there already!
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KartikPrabhu <sigh> should de-dup backfeed after changing article permalinks!
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tantek aaronpk - with a diff between Jan/dec 2014?
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kylewm.com edited /ind.ie (+122) "/* Criticism */ replace broken link with archive.org" (view diff)
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aaronpk nah just looking at the list of implementations, they all say when they started
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aaronpk most are from 2014
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tantek kylewm: did you blog about the implementatin of Bridgy Blog Webmentions?
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aaronpk the Known plugin was also 2014
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aaronpk oh i was looking at servers
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tantek right
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kylewm tantek, no that was all snarfed
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tantek maybe I'm confused
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kylewm tantek: https://snarfed.org/2014-05-13_webmentions-for-blogger-tumblr-and-wordpress-com
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+427) "/* Services */ more Bridgy details" (view diff)
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tantek thanks kylewm - cited!
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tantek hmm - that history diff attempt didn't work
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tantek aaronpk - maybe the opposite questions are easier
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tantek what micropub clients were there in 2013?
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tantek and what new micropub clients happened in 2015?
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@seahawkwooten #ownyourdata is important because teachers and students need to understand the importance of scores #NCSC15 (twitter.com/_/status/613448170673188864)
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@seahawkwooten #common core and #ACT are important across curriculums. Everyone can participate #ownyourdata at #NCSC15 (twitter.com/_/status/613448473254494208)
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snarfed.org edited /2014-review (+140) "/* Services */" (view diff)
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tantek hmm I see 8 micropub clients as of 2014-12-31: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Micropub&oldid=16330#Clients
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aaronpk good idea
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@seahawkwooten "We all need to speak the same language when it comes to student data." #ownyourdata at #NCNS15 ...loving it (twitter.com/_/status/613449360014221312)
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aaronpk the client section wasn't there in 2013
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Loqi [bridgy] Frank retweeted a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp (https://twitter.com/kresin/status/613442082934509568)
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aaronpk were there actually any micropub implementations before 2014? i'm kind of thinking maybe not
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aaronpk my endpoint didn't even exist until march
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aaronpk and most of the spec was writting in september and december 2013
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@seahawkwooten When students own their data, learning occurs. The Atlas Protocol helps students to disaggregate data. #ownyourdata at #NCSC15 (twitter.com/_/status/613450417024933889)
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tantek aaronpk - a-ha! that's notable
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tantek so micropub was conceived in 2013, yet first implemented in 2014!
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tantek so that's a pretty big deal
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aaronpk i think so!
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tantek I'm going to count that as new deployed tech in 2014 then
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aaronpk yep i think that's safe
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tantek we should document more about micropub in /timeline
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tantek do you remember when you conceived it? and named it?
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Loqi I agree
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tantek (in 2013? is the start of the wiki page good enough?)
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aaronpk yeah, pretty much started right with the wiki page
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aaronpk i could probably tell you the date I named it
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tantek yes I'd like to capture that
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aaronpk Sep 22 2013
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aaronpk I renamed the page from "Posts API" to "micropub"
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+141) "micropub first implemented / interop in 2014" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek this is for you
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snarfed i just reviewed a change at work that included `command = "yes | %s --in %s --ann %s --unann %s" % …`
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snarfed and then we realized we needed to replace the `yes` with `yes yes`
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snarfed and then i posted http://www.yesandyesyes.com/ and we all laughed for a solid few minutes
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snarfed unix++
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Loqi unix has 3 karma
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tantek snarfed - heh that's amazing
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aaronpk oh Known ships with the micropub plugin by default now?
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+162) "6 micropub server implementations, link to each sets as of 2014" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ yes, that was announced at homebrew last week: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-06-17.html#micropub
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aaronpk sweet
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+18) "/* Technologies */ bold" (view diff)
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tantek this is shaping up nicely: https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#Technologies
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aaronpk tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 206 karma
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KevinMarks_ which is a good default - it took me ages to find it
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Loqi [bridgy] gRegor ♥ Morrill favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp (https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/613441603550588928)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: can you upload a screenshot of mobilepub? http://indiewebcamp.com/MobilePub
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KevinMarks_ reading https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412 there is a potential problme of knowing what properties should be html, and which should be URLs etc
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aaronpk a problem?
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KevinMarks_ you end up having to sniff the property contents to decide if it's a p- an e- or a u-
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aaronpk I think it's fine, because the type of value of the properties is determined by the vocabulart
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aaronpk s/art/ary
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: I think it's fine, because the type of value of the properties is determined by the vocabulary
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KevinMarks_ or would you post "content":[{"html":"blah","value":"blah"}]
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aaronpk right now you just post "content":"blah" in whatever internal raw text type you want. some people prefer to write in markdown for examples
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KevinMarks_ well, yes, but then you have mf1 style magic vocabulary knowledge
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aaronpk but we still have that in mf2
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aaronpk e.g. the "photo" property has special meaning in the context of an h-entry
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KevinMarks_ right, and you have to know that it should be a url
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aaronpk yeah, that seems to be working so far
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aaronpk it's just the parsing step of mf2 that is vocabulary agnostic
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KevinMarks_ right, but then you still need some post processing eg https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/commit/434aa9ca4afa9fb3d1156ff1128d47de9fa962d1
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KevinMarks_ that was my grumble yesterday: http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=23+Jun+2015&e=23+Jun+2015
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aaronpk something somewhere needs to be aware of vocabulary
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KevinMarks_ your rich editor in quill posts html in content?
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aaronpk yes
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KevinMarks_ so for json format you'd just post that in content, not in the nested parsed form?
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aaronpk yeah right now that seems to work fine
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KevinMarks_ it seems to work, yes, across known and silo.pub too
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aaronpk i implemented the draft in that gist, and now my micropub endpoint is completely unaware of vocabulary and it's kind of neat
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aaronpk oh, not *completely* actually, it does know that "published" is a date
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aaronpk but that's it. other than that it just fiddles with the values of things, storing in a mf2 data structure on disk
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:teacup-pebble.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /Teacup (+105) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Teacup (+6) (view diff)
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kylewm KevinMarks_: you can do {{ value | safe }} instead of turning autoescape off seletively
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kylewm (assuming i'm looking at jinja2)
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aaronpk my other thought for specifying the content type of fields is to use multipart requests similar to file uploads
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aaronpk since when uploading a file, you already put the content type in the multipart header
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KevinMarks_ aha
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aaronpk if you wanted to post HTML, you'd upload an html file
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aaronpk and if the field was called "content" it would be uploading the article text
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KevinMarks_ but you need a template to turn the mf2 json into html, no?
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aaronpk well it wouldn't really work with the JSON version
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KevinMarks_ or you're sating that isn't the micropub endpoints job, but the blog
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KevinMarks_ s/sating/saying/
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: or you're saying that isn't the micropub endpoints job, but the blog
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aaronpk cause json can't be split up into multipart the way a simple key/value encoding like form-encoding can
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KevinMarks_ right
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GWG Evening
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KevinMarks_ otoh you coudl do the {"html":"<b>blah</b>","value":"blah"} thing mf2 does
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aaronpk that might be good enough
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aaronpk that means clients would also have to generate a plaintext version if they want to send html?
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KevinMarks_ that implies extensibility to "markdown" or "mediawiki" or whatever
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KevinMarks_ hm
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aaronpk and servers would be able to always rely on "value" as plaintext being there, and might understand the other content type in the object/
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KevinMarks_ there is the nested h- thingy case too
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aaronpk nested h- thingies need to be sent as their own request and referenced by URL
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KevinMarks_ hm
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KevinMarks_ but if you can post html you can post arbitrarily nested ones
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aaronpk but that would just be posted as html so the server wouldn't care
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor bonjour je cherche un canal francais merci
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indie-visitor ouishare et consommation collaboratives
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KevinMarks_ un canal francais de parler "indieweb"
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KevinMarks_ ?
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indie-visitor http://www.reverso.net/text_translation.aspx?lang=EN
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indie-visitor translation
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KevinMarks_ il y a http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-fr
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indie-visitor Hello I look for a French channel(canal) thank you
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indie-visitor Great thank you very much
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GWG KevinMarks_: You speak French?
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KevinMarks_ a bit - I did 5 years in school and a lot of summer holidays in france, so I can get by in french
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GWG KevinMarks_: Interesting
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KevinMarks_ to actually speak and understand it takes a while to get up to speed, adn I haven't spent much time there since 1998
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GWG I took 4.5 years of Spanish, but never used it outside the classroom.
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indie-visitor yes i speak french
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GWG Do we have a spanish wiki?
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KevinMarks_ that makes all the difference, having to use it
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indie-visitor oups
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KevinMarks_ http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-es
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aaronpk whoa I did not know about that
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GWG We do. Good to know
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KevinMarks_ they're linked from the homepage
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GWG Someone did Catalan? Hmmm
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aaronpk you know, the {"html":"<b>foo</b>","value":"foo"} thing makes total sense now that i think about it... because in this JSON form, the micropub request to create things is really just sending a JSON version of the parsed mf2 json
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KevinMarks_ right, I was extending your draft
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KevinMarks_ indie-visitor: do you have a personal website?
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KevinMarks_ but that would imply posting something like https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-event/combining.json
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KevinMarks_ for events
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KevinMarks_ hm
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aaronpk ideally the location property would be a URL
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aaronpk because you don't want to create the location every time
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aaronpk does this look right? https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412#posting-html-content
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aaronpk oops no, needs to be an array
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aaronpk there
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KevinMarks_ you should document the 'passing html as text' convention too, as that is what actually works
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Loqi definitely
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KevinMarks_ though I think you need more escaping in the form encoding?
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aaronpk probably
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KevinMarks_ <b>hello+moon<%2Fb>
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KevinMarks_ is what I get with my unmung form
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/?rawtext=%3Cb%3Ehello+moon%3C%2Fb%3E&maxurllength=0&embed=on
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KevinMarks_ hm, no the < was chrome displaying in the url bar
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aaronpk question: would it be interesting to include background on how micropub syntax is derived in this talk?
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csarven Is the sourcecode for h2vx up somewhere? http://h2vx.com/vcf/csarven.ca is giving me no vcard love
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GWG aaronpk: When is the talk again?
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aaronpk Tomorrow
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GWG aaronpk: I guess I should have recorded that intro for you?
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aaronpk oh yeah haha
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aaronpk forgot about that
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tantek csarven: yes on github
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GWG Maybe for the next IWC.
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tantek see microformats.org/wiki/h2vx for a link
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GWG Before Squarespace sues us
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tantek lol
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csarven tantek Thanks
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tantek csarven that being said - h2vx (and the core code, X2V) needs updating to support microformats2
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gRegorLove tantek: I've actually started taking a shot at updating that
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gRegorLove I was thinking it would be more like barnabywalters MF2 cleaner functions, so you could include php-mf2 and the updated h2vx helper functions, so it could be used more generally (I wanted to include it in some work projects)
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csarven tantek That's likely the case. I thought maybe it tripped over something else.