#indiewebcamp 2015-06-24

2015-06-24 UTC
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KevinMarks_ hm, http://lj-dev.livejournal.com/683939.html is interesting, I'd forgotten it started with FOAF too
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KevinMarks_ firefox update came with a video that was pure fluff
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GWG KevinMarks_: I'm worried about them lately.
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tantek KevinMarks_: interesting, my non-techie friends really appreciated the video
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KevinMarks_ I thought it was going to be about Pocket, as that's what the page said,
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@tarr11 http:///replies/webmention.html (twitter.com/_/status/613501531971694592)
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KevinMarks_ It is a "welcome to the cool browser club" video
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@tarr11 Still struggling to get webmentions to work (bare metal, github pages) http:///replies/webmention.html (twitter.com/_/status/613501674192146432)
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KevinMarks_ bad url parse there, loqi
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@aaronpk @barryf watching your #indieweb video triggered my Amazon Echo! Turns out when you say "an excerpt" she hears "Alexa" (twitter.com/_/status/613509671949733888)
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GWG Fun
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nedsauce did anyone see the foss pocket clone that someone released last month?
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nedsauce it was posted a couple of places online then seems to have had the links taken down within a few days
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nedsauce they did brand it as a free pocket alternative so maybe they received a C&D
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aaronpk wow good job
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aaronpk when will people learn not to use trademark names
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KevinMarks_ a little bit of encoding cleanup and the script still works
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KevinMarks_ 12-year-old code
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aaronpk must be php
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KevinMarks_ python that runs shell and AppleScript
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aaronpk hah wow
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KevinMarks_ https://github.com/kevinmarks/audiospool
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@aaronpk @hertling aww! The talk will be recorded so you can watch later! In the mean time, come to IndieWebCamp! https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/2015-portland #osb15 (twitter.com/_/status/613525758581977088)
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kylewm KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 120 karma
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@aaronpk Just made a somewhat depressing slide for my talk tomorrow of site deaths. #indieweb #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/613541237035896832/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613541237035896832)
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@Chevy20000 RT @MissChristmann: I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613545496137854976)
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@aaronpk @jaredhanson I couldn't fit them all on the slide. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/613560015308259328)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@jaredhanson I couldn't fit them all on the slide. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/06/23/4/)
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@benwerd Wondering if there's scope for an "indieweb for the rest of us" event. You don't need to be technical or have a website. Come to learn. (twitter.com/_/status/613568675765837824)
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@aaronpk @benwerd Speaking of which, hope you can make it to the IWC pre-party! https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/2015-portland (twitter.com/_/status/613570314430119936)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Wondering if there's scope for an "indieweb for the rest of us" event. You don't need to be technical or have a website. Come … (twitter.com/_/status/613585625896202242)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek GWG, since you found value in consuming OGP for building /link-previews from e.g. news articles, I wonder if it would be useful to define a mapping from common OGP meta tags to microformats properties
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KartikPrabhu wonders if snarfed has already (partially) done that with activity-streams-unofficial
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tantek because if we did that, then we could define a "backcompat" parse for OGP for a top level microformat object for the page as well, and then we could incorporate that knowledge into microformats parsers rather than just one particular end implementation
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@benwerd @benwerd Also, the indieweb is now more than having a website. There are deeper technologies and ideas that are unique to the movement. (twitter.com/_/status/613595913219522561)
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tantek ok I should reply to benwerd's tweet - because that "non-techie" and "don't need your own site" event was the intent of Homebrew Website Club
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@sjh_canada @benwerd Which aspect of indieweb are you hoping they eventually learn or use? (twitter.com/_/status/613596778127093760)
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tantek oh aaronpk already said what I was going to say https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/613569363241668612
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@aaronpk @benwerd Isn't that the idea behind Homebrew Website Club? I like the name though. (twitter.com/_/status/613569363241668612)
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KartikPrabhu maybe Loqi should look for "Homebrew Website"
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek yes you Loqi
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tantek hmm - how much of a multi-reply should I post?
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tantek motivated by lack of salmentions to copy a reply to a reply up to the original
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KartikPrabhu does not like "salmentions" being a term!
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KartikPrabhu goes and sulks in a corner
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tantek KartikPrabhu: do you have a preferred alternative?
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tantek or just dislike portmanteaus?
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KartikPrabhu webmention ?
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KartikPrabhu I don't see what "salmention" is over and above being a webmention for an update which one is supposed to send anyway!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it is two things
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tantek above and beyond webmentions
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tantek 1. on the sending side, when anyone sends one of YOUR responses a webmention, you pass it on to what you replied-to
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tantek 2. on the receiving side, when you receive a webmention for a reply to your post, you explicitly parse that post for all of *its* responses (comments, likes, reposts) and display those as well
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KartikPrabhu how are 1. and 2. different from sending webmention and re-parsing a post when the post is updated in other ways?
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tantek because normally with webmentions, you only send when *you* post a reply, or update your reply, or delete your reply. (1) is adding, you also send a webmention, when *others* send *you* a webmention
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tantek and (2) is different because it adds to the requirement of parsing an h-entry, to parsing any p-comment, u-like, u-repost etc. *inside* that h-entry
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KartikPrabhu hmmm oh well if people want to go with a new term then so be it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's not just a new term - it's new *required* functionality above and beyond the minimum required to support sending/receiving webmentions
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KartikPrabhu I see it as a update webmention
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tantek yes it is an update webmention, yet the requirements of knowing to send it, and knowing to parse comments inside a reply, are new
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KartikPrabhu an "update webmention" also has requirements of knowing to send webmention on update of a post, and knowing to parse the updated post for new properties
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KartikPrabhu including knowing to re-parse u-syndication for example to de-dup responses
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KartikPrabhu but an update webmention does not get a new name!
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KartikPrabhu anyway, this is purely semantics or what people want to call a "new thing"
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@t @benwerd as @aaronpk noted, Homebrew Website Club is indieweb for anyone interested & passionate. As a HWC ... http://tantek.com/2015/174/t1/homebrew-website-club-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613601854686109696)
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tantek hah awesome! my multireply automatically webmentioned THREE in-reply-to posts and showed up on all three! first automatic multi-reply for me - including 3 in-reply-to indieweb posts, and POSSE tweet threading on the deepest one. :) http://tantek.com/2015/174/t1/homebrew-website-club-indieweb
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tantek KartikPrabhu: salmentions are an extension to minimum expected/required behavior for update webmentions
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KartikPrabhu yup, exactly. just like micropub does not get a new name for each feature
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KartikPrabhu as in when discovery of syndication endpoint was added to micropub it wasn't a "new thing" it was an extension
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tantek this is different because it results in a very visible different user experience
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KartikPrabhu oh well. I really don't care enough about this to actually debate it. People call things with names <shrug>
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gRegorLove I don't know of anyone parsing reply-to-replies and displaying them before salmentions.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: I didn't know of anyone parsing updates to syndication links and de-duping before parsing updates to syndication links and de-duping
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KartikPrabhu I mean really I am going to stop debating this now
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gRegorLove salmention doesn't represent an update to any of the original content, per se. Just that a third party also replied.
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gRegorLove Ok :)
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@CaptainKurtis @flyingmonkeyair @HongPong If you dislike arbitrary rules set by social media silo websites you might dig #indiewebcamp / #indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/613618216552779776)
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petermolnar good morning, indieweb
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petermolnar we have some shit hitting the fan: https://www.respectourprivacy.com/
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@TT_SemWeb @benwerd as @aaronpk noted, Homebrew Website Club is indieweb for anyone intere… http://t.co/hhd6uDpJ1c, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/topic/RWW/semantic-web?s=tnp (twitter.com/_/status/613628121582018560)
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@blognoon @benwerd as @aaronpk noted, Homebrew Website Club is indieweb for anyone intere… http://t.co/vp1J7Cvhwp, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/v/3112?s=tnp (twitter.com/_/status/613628641252085760)
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Loqi [bridgy] Pierre replied '@aaronpk @jaredhanson GoogleReader was a big One I think, maybe the biggest. ancestry.com also slate.com/articles/techn…' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (https://twitter.com/pierreozoux/status/613645640673968129)
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@acegiak Hey @tomscott need a websavvy linguist's opinion on best terms for indieweb pronoun markup. Have been told that - http://acegiak.net/2015/06/24/13363/ (twitter.com/_/status/613668565481209856)
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Loqi [mention] Ashton McAllan posted 'Hey @tomscott need a websavvy linguist’s opinion on best terms for indieweb pronoun markup. Have been told that the “he/him/his” pronouns sh...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/preferred_gender_pronoun (http://acegiak.net/2015/06/24/13363/)
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Loqi [mention] Ashton McAllan posted 'Hey @tomscott need a websavvy linguist’s opinion on best terms for indieweb pronoun markup. Have been told that the “he/him/his” pronouns sh...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/preferred_gender_pronoun (http://acegiak.net/2015/06/24/13363/)
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jonnybarnes hey guys/gals
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acegiak !tell KartikPrabhu sorry for the word salmentions. I was just trying to quickly communicate using webmentions to create salmon-like behaviour?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes salmon-like behaviour?
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acegiak johnnybarnes: Salmon was a complicated part of the ostatus stack for making comments flow up a conversation stream across multiple sites to the original article
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acegiak waits to be corrected on details she's sure she has wrong
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jonnybarnes that does sound complicated
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voxpelli Salmon wasn't unique for OStatus though – nothing in OStatus really was, it was just a defined way of using many different specs
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voxpelli The Salmon spec: http://www.salmon-protocol.org/
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voxpelli Still a pretty interesting specification and surely something that can't yet be fully replicated with WebMentions
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GWG acegiak: Do you get a lot of webmentions on your site?
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@PW_Peed Easing in to day 2 at #NCNS15. Some interesting ideas yesterday about students using their data #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/613685936711405568)
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@rockECHSprin RT @MissChristmann: I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613690883213520896)
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@MissChristmann Connecting the dots with data. Learning about how to track student data!! #ownyourdata #NCNS15 (twitter.com/_/status/613691478414655488)
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@rockECHSprin @EThompson_22 @MissChristmann absolutely, once they own it! #ownyourdata #NCNS15 (twitter.com/_/status/613700301527379968)
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+202) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+104) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: Mostly from bridgy but yeah I get a few
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GWG acegiak I need help
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GWG I'm trying to fix notifications for webmentions.
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GWG The ones WordPress sends by email
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GWG I think the emails aren't helpful
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GWG I think the action to send the email is firing earlier than the Linkbacks Fix
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@jeremyjmonroe RT @benwerd: Wondering if there's scope for an "indieweb for the rest of us" event. You don't need to be technical or have a website. Come … (twitter.com/_/status/613711843282923521)
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dym.cx edited /language (+9) "/* Programming languages */ +Go" (view diff)
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dym.cx edited /PHP (+2) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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dym.cx edited /Go (-51) "/* See Also */ only link to the page with other languages is sufficient" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: I can help with your action priority tomorrow. I'm hitting the hay at the moment. Not sure how one would improve the emails. Done a sketchup I can see?
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dym.cx edited /projects (-165) "/* MediaWiki */ caseorganic.com/wiki does not exist anymore" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@tarr11 My new favorite thing is #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/613718895828992000)
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dym.cx edited /ActivityStreams (+16) "/* Quitter se */ no [[Quitter.se]], made into an external link" (view diff)
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@pierreozoux @benwerd we tried in Lisbon but failed :/ http://t.co/N0n6UDRQdP http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-29-hwc-lisbon/ We should try again! https://tokoloho.co/profile/internetfreedomlisbon (twitter.com/_/status/613725119899398144)
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@ChrisAldrich Thanks to #IndieWeb (@WithKnown, @WordPress, & Brid.gy) this is no longer a problem. https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/613738190839545856/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613738190839545856)
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Loqi [mention] Chris Aldrich posted 'Thanks to #IndieWeb (@WithKnown, @WordPress, &amp; Brid.gy) this is no longer a problem. ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/thanks-to-indieweb-withknown-wordpress-bridgy-this-is-no-longer)
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KevinMarks_ https://www.respectourprivacy.com/ asking for a phone number is ironic, as that is the "most likely to be annoying" field in the ICANN domain record
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@jm_healy RT @ChrisAldrich: Thanks to #IndieWeb (@WithKnown, @WordPress, & Brid.gy) this is no longer a problem. https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/613738190839545856/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/613742433319391232)
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kylewm.com created /Telegram (+186) "Created page with "{{stub}} <dfn>[https://telegram.org/ Telegram]</dfn> is a cross-platform encrypted messaging app. Telegram is a centralized service, with a closed source server and open source ..."" (view diff)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good morning!
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snarfed.org edited /Python (+303) "a-u" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller posted 'If we want open software to win, we need to get off our armchairs and compete. 9 min rea...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://werd.io/2015/if-we-want-open-software-to-win-we-need-to)
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snarfed feedback time: i've been thinking of renaming activitystreams-unofficial to granary for a while now, and i might finally do it sometime soon
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snarfed background: "Silos are used in agriculture to store grain" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silo)
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snarfed "A granary is a storehouse or room in a barn for threshed grain" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granary)
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snarfed "Threshing is the process of loosening the edible part of cereal grain from the scaly, inedible chaff" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshing)
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snarfed ie granary frees social data from the chaff of silo snowflake APIs and formats. feedback welcome!
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gRegorLove I like it, snarfed
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aaronpk probably a good call
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snarfed activitystreams-unofficial was a bad name at the beginning, and now it's also misleading to boot
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snarfed thanks!
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aaronpk lets me build my own understanding of what it does rather than have some connection to activitystreams that I have to also learn about
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snarfed also, and selfishly most important to me, it's shorter :P
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tantek snarfed, that's pretty funny
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tantek and agreed with all the reasoning
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snarfed the "silo" term is so central, and yet the agriculture analogies are totally ripe and underused
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snarfed whee
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aaronpk hehe ripe
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tantek.com edited /Big_Boring_System (+61) "update dates, since late 2013, update dfn to what is currently active" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+89) "registration from tito" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (-89) "give people 24h to add themselves before I copy registrations from tito" (view diff)
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@ken_bauer What @benwerd is saying here is important to #indieWeb and everybody whether they know it or not https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/613761839319519232 (twitter.com/_/status/613765255877890048)
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GWG !tell acegiak I did minimal changes to start
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@jevdemon Winning back the Open Web. Good article. Someone should get Dries Buytaert ramped up on #indieWeb http://buytaert.net/winning-back-the-open-web (twitter.com/_/status/613771192881655808)
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GWG I am trying to reprioritize my itches
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GWG What is everyone working on?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "everyone working on" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=everyone+working+on&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435169831552
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GWG Everyone is working on itches.
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aaronpk haha english grammar is hard
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tantek aaronpk - what if Loqi ignored what is questions that ended in a preposition?
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Loqi :)
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tantek he likes it :)
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aaronpk give me a list of prepositions ;)
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aaronpk that'd be a good filter tho
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GWG I still am looking for inspiration
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tantek oh darn that's long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_prepositions#Single_words
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aaronpk not toooo bad
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aaronpk yeah i can manage that
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ehlovader "Bork, you're a Federal Agent. You represent the United States government. Never end a sentence with a preposition."
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ehlovader https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4XCZfkGF8k
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ehlovader all I could think of...
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: last chance to get a screenshot of mobilepub into my talk today :)
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kylewm "Don't you have customers to deal with, mullethead?" is all I coudl think of :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCkuyF4rgoc
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/6/24/1/
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 81 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme i posted a screenshot of mobilepub with mobilepub
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ that's kind of amazing
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ben_thatmustbeme that was weird when at one point i wasn't sure if i was in the app or had the screenshot open full screen
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 82 karma
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk is that a png or jpg?
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tantek mobilepubception
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ben_thatmustbeme png
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aaronpk thx
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aaronpk (filename has no extension)
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ben_thatmustbeme annoying bit of cordova. if you select just select from gallery it doesn't include an extension
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tantek way too long an article that benwerd linked to re: Internet That Was http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/06/medium-is-the-message-paradise-paved-internet-architecture/396227/
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ben_thatmustbeme if you take a photo it does
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aaronpk funny
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tantek from that article: "If users don’t come into contact with the Internet’s architecture, that architecture can’t shape them. " < -- good reason to always include permashortlinks in POSSE copies to FB, Twitter etc.
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tantek this is false: "Without access to a CDN, content from a mainstream, well-capitalized media company would load perceptibly faster than what the user offered" < -- those well media companies web pages are huge bloated slow loading pieces of crap with unnecessary JS, ads etc.
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KevinMarks_ he means video I think
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tantek so let's talk photos - I wonder how indie photos (e.g. hosted on Known servers) do compared to CDN hosted photos
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tantek for video, and audio, I think it's a more challenging problem, because ideally you want streaming with low latency to playback start
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tantek not a bad piece overall
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@ChrisAldrich A nice little article on Webmentions. Welcome to the #indieweb @RudigerMeyer! https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/613781371627003904)
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KartikPrabhu loqi messages?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: acegiak left you a message 7 hours, 15 minutes ago: sorry for the word salmentions. I was just trying to quickly communicate using webmentions to create salmon-like behaviour? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-24/line/1435146099632
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KartikPrabhu oh come on! acegiak really no need to apologise!!
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KartikPrabhu it is a word after all :P
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tantek see what you did KartikPrabhu ?
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tantek :P
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KartikPrabhu :'(
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tantek ooh a multi-reply on Known: http://werd.io/2015/i-agree-with-you-its-not-possible-to-not-be
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tantek didn't know it did that
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tantek what is a multi-reply
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Loqi A multiple reply (multireply) is a reply written directly in response to multiple previous posts https://indiewebcamp.com/multi-reply
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@jgmac1106 @benwerd @audreywatters think "indieweb for the rest of us" does happen in places like #edcamp #teachtheweb #ccourses #clmooc #ds106 etc (twitter.com/_/status/613783880596881408)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes for granary! :P
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Jeena My UI is a bit weird for that but I basically allow a list of urls separated by a space
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KartikPrabhu me too for multi-reply
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benwerd Mmm, that sweet feeling when you merge 140 commits from a branch into master
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benwerd And (this is selfish) when your GitHub profile changes to reflect those commits
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KartikPrabhu woah!
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tantek.com edited /multiple-reply (+295) "/* Ben Werdmuller */ another interesting multi-reply example, possibly to get around lack of salmention" (view diff)
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benwerd Yes indeed re: salmention
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tantek heh - sorry to call you out like that benwerd - I thought it was an interesting use-case
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benwerd I dearly like the salmention pun
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tantek for a multi-reply
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tantek me too
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benwerd Of course, it depends heavily on pike roe formats
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tantek salmention++
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Loqi salmention has 1 karma
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benwerd ... And that's why my cofounder keeps telling me to shhh.
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rhiaro In ActivityPump, the salmention equivalent is 3.6 of https://github.com/w3c-social/activitypump/blob/master/implementation.md, if anyone's interested
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tantek rhiaro: want to document that as a "Related" on /salmention ?
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rhiaro should have seen that coming
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tantek :)
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tantek benwerd - similarly - I multi-replied with this yesterday: http://tantek.com/2015/174/t1/homebrew-website-club-indieweb
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tantek so it would show up as a comment on your latest comment, aaronpk's reply, and on the original post you made
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tantek and thread in the twitter thread as well
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tantek.com edited /multiple-reply (+243) "/* Tantek */ s/rarely/once in a while, add recent multireply in response to 3 other indie replies/posts in order to have it show up as a comment on all 3" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd, is the one comment on this post spam? http://werd.io/view/51f01e17bed7de2b1d060400
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tantek native comment on werd.io?
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benwerd tantek: yes
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benwerd That's spam.
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benwerd Boo, it finally happened.
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aaronpk sure it's not a pingback?
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benwerd yeah
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benwerd the "on werd.io" means it was left natively
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aaronpk ah
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KevinMarks_ natively as in not a webmention?
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benwerd Yes
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KevinMarks_ well, you could reject due to http://ddgabdggfdbdakcf.blogspot.com not existing
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benwerd There was a hole on the web where someone could write, and naturally it was filled with spam eventually
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benwerd Yes, that'd be smart
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KevinMarks_ if I put a known url in there, does it post to my site too?
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benwerd No, it doesn't do anything smart with indieauth etc (yet)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+1565) "/* Syntax */ update with latest JSON syntax for edits" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+35) "/* Updating Objects */ updated syntax" (view diff)
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aaronpk now i'm not sure what to do about actions like syndicating
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aaronpk we derived the update/delete syntax from the idea of creating "edit posts"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+3416) "move syndicating to brainstorming, update notes on other brainstorming sections" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub () "(-4699) move syndicating to brainstorming" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+320) "/* Updating Objects */ add JSON examples" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (-3) "/* Updating Objects */" (view diff)
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dym.cx edited /User:Dym.cx (+181) "+ === Projects ===" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - what about "actions like syndicating" do you not understand?
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tantek and also - when's your talk?!?
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aaronpk doesn't fit in the model of edit posts anymore
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aaronpk talk is at 3:45
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tantek ok
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tantek syndicating as in POSSE, or just adding "u-syndication" properties to a post?
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aaronpk POSSE
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aaronpk adding syndication links is easy
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aaronpk just like adding any property. there's an example in there now too
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tantek should the act of POSSEing be part of micropub at all?
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tantek why not talk micropub to the silo to do the POSSE?
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aaronpk maybe
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tantek and by that I mean use silo.pub obv :)
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aaronpk it's convenient right now to let micropub clients send a string like "twitter.com" to the micropub endpoint
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tantek as in, no need to complexify micropub with that
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aaronpk so that clients don't have to know about how to posse to each posse destination
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tantek ah ok
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tantek perhaps one model would be chaining micropubs
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what i am actually interested in
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aaronpk there are two parts to syndicating. one is syndicating when creating the post originally (adding some sort of command parameter to the initial post request)
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aaronpk the other is later syndicating an already-existing post
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tantek where your client does micropub to your server, then your server does micropub to the silo
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tantek aaronpk re: "clients don't have to know about how to posse to each posse destination" agreed, and therefore, clients should not even bother to "send a string like "twitter.com" to the micropub endpoint"
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KevinMarks_ benwerd was talking about using micropub to crosspost to different known instances (eg personal and classroom)
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aaronpk the string came from the micropub endpoint tho
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tantek and instead all POSSEing smarts should be handled by the micropub endpoint itself
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ben_thatmustbeme that also opens up a number of interesting options of having a micropub service that pipes your data around to different endpoints depending on some set of options
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: silo.pub is an example of that
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aaronpk tantek: but when i'm writing a note, I want to choose whether it goes to facebook or twitter
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aaronpk so my client needs some way to indicate that to the server
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tantek ok - so you need UI between the client and your server
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aaronpk the way it works in quill right now is quill queries your micropub endpoint for a list of syndication targets
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: why not let the secondary micropub endpoint register itself with your endpoint?
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aaronpk then it just presents those back to the user
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tantek aaronpk - yes that makes sense
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ben_thatmustbeme then you can add secondary (syndication) endpoints on the fly
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aaronpk quill doesn't care if it's "twitter.com" or "twitter.com/aaronpk" or "@aaronpk" or whatevr, it's an opaque string
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tantek aaronpk, in that case, that query / show list is more micropub - mp-* custom stuff
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aaronpk yeah, but with the new edit post idea, all the "mp-*" stuff went away
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aaronpk so now it's only there for syndicating
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aaronpk which might be okay, but that is a change
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tantek oh interesting, we've been minimizing mp-* stuff
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tantek got it
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KevinMarks_ the case I had with the nice quill editor was I wanted to post to multiple micropub endpoints
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aaronpk yep, no longer necessary for deletes
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KevinMarks_ but maybe a micropub hub is the answer
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aaronpk i think someone could build a micropub hub right now without needing any spec changes
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KevinMarks_ yes
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tantek micropubhub lol
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to catch up on the whole "edit post" idea
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KevinMarks_ micropublican
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: short version is here https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412
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ben_thatmustbeme i missed that stuff
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aaronpk and now also moved here with more explanation https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#Update
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aaronpk you don't really need to worry about the derivation of the syntax from the idea of an edit post unless you want to
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aaronpk but in case you were wondering, the example of an edit post here is where the micropub syntax came from http://indiewebcamp.com/edit#Edit_a_specific_property
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ben_thatmustbeme by the way http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-08/line/1433793069686
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: cool! what do you think of the term "micropub chaining" to describe that?
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ben_thatmustbeme makes sense to me
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tantek aaronpk - I understand the client / user desire to pick which posts get POSSEd where
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ben_thatmustbeme i think just need to work out a couple things, workflow for initial sign-up / adding another MP endpoint
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tantek there's also been examples of people customizing *what* their POSSE copies look like
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tantek in their post UI.
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tantek do you have any thoughts about whether / how micropub should support that?
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ben_thatmustbeme that would be an interestingly difficult thing
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ben_thatmustbeme gets into rather embedded values then
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aaronpk that's in the brainstorming section
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aaronpk i don't think anyone has implemented it yet
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ben_thatmustbeme if i weren't just using bridgy
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Custom_Syndication_Content
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tantek ok cool - glad it's been captured
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tantek what is micropub chaining
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "micropub chaining" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=micropub+chaining&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435176979597
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tantek micropub chaining is when you have one [[micropub]] endpoint itself use micropub to post to another micropub endpoint, like to [[POSSE]] a post to [[silos]], or to a community site or other [[commons]]. Idea noted in iRC by {{benthatmustbeme}} http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-08/line/1433793069686
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loqi.me created /micropub_chaining (+328) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-24/line/1435176979597 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks_ coudl you probe for potential micropub chaining points by looking at rel="me"
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tantek doesn't make sense. it's the server itself that will be doing so where the rel=me links are
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KevinMarks_ hm. I was thinking about the micropub hub
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aaronpk here's a thought about the alternate syndicated text. does anyone currently store or show the modified text on their own permalinks?
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aaronpk liek when sending a shorter version to twitter, do you also show that shorter text on your site somehow? and would you?
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KevinMarks_ Known it
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aaronpk even if you wouldn't do that visibly, that could be a way to derive a micropub syntax for it
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KevinMarks_ 's the title that goes to twitter
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tantek aaronpk - good analysis
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KevinMarks_ though summary/content could work
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tantek sorta? not sure I'd want those restricted by silo limits
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KevinMarks_ I do the twitter preview in noterlive now
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tantek using the cassis functions?
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tantek in JS?
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KevinMarks_ yes, though I should show he actual truncations
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tantek cool!
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tantek aaronpk - we've avoided properties with side effects in micropub so far right?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk with the exception of the implied publish date and implied author if none is specified
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aaronpk possible exception. not sure that counts as a side effect
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tantek those aren't side effects, those are implied
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tantek side effect would be, set a "syndication" property of "twitter.com" and cause the micropub endpoint to then syndicate to Twitter
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tantek aaronpk - it is possible to set an *explicit* dt-published though right? e.g. to create a /future post
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk as well as explicit dt-created
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aaronpk for offline posts
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aaronpk where the micropub request happens way later than the post was authored
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tantek yes
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ben_thatmustbeme needs to verify that offline store and replay in mobilepub sets dt-created not dt-published
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revere hi
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ben_thatmustbeme revere are you also interested in indieweb or are you just following me in here?
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aaronpk this seems like a good occasion to wear my microformats shirt :)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: what is the talk for?
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ben_thatmustbeme or where?
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aaronpk open source bridge
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aaronpk http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/1593
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tantek good luck with your talk aaronpk!
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@unifex @sandstormIO just hit the work maillist. Looks good. Heads up @indiewebcamp! It may be worth getting @withknown on this. (twitter.com/_/status/613817528188469248)
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benwerd 's ears prick up
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@OnlineCrsLady RT @jgmac1106: @benwerd @audreywatters think "indieweb for the rest of us" does happen in places like #edcamp #teachtheweb #ccourses #clmoo… (twitter.com/_/status/613819631468445697)
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@withknown @unifex @sandstormIO @indiewebcamp Let us know how we can help! We're very interested in being on the platform. (twitter.com/_/status/613821312302092288)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@teknotus Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/2/)
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@gRegorLove @teknotus Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613821862603128832)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@dreev Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/3/)
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@gRegorLove @dreev Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613822245501206528)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@psyhigh Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/4/)
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@gRegorLove @psyhigh Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613822521104666624)
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@gRegorLove @EllaDurham Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613822877528231936)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@EllaDurham Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/5/)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@notenoughneon Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/6/)
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tantek gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 15 karma
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@gRegorLove @notenoughneon Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613823478756544512)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@erinjo Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/7/)
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@gRegorLove @erinjo Are you coming to IndieWebCamp Portland this year? July 11–12th. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613823681282772992)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@jburrows Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (/notes/2015/06/24/8/)
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gRegorLove impoersonates a bridgy flood
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@gRegorLove @jburrows Are you coming to IndieWebCamp this year? July 11–12th in Portland. Registration: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/613824240085659648)
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@unifex @withknown I'm at work at the moment but will be reading thorough this today: https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm/wiki/Packaging-Guide @sandstormIO @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/613824582819000320)
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tantek gRegorLove: I believe that's you actually being a flood all by yourself, no impersonating needed
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aaronpk gRegorLove: feel free to link people directly to https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/2015-portland as well
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Loqi slack/kevinmarks: Does this count as a site death? <https://medium.com/circa/farewell-to-circa-news-7d002150f74b>
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tantek did it save any user state? subscription lists? account info? etc.?
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tantek go ahead and add it KevinMarks
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tantek.com edited /micropub_chaining (+224) "fix typo, expand citations, see also" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu poo! broke a bunch of webmention-stuff by changing article permanlinks :(
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tantek what did you change?!?
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KartikPrabhu /article/<slug> changed to /articles/<slug>
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KartikPrabhu so have to identify those in my webmention receiving code
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aaronpk people are still sending webmentions to the old permalinks?
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aaronpk presumably you are sending an HTTP redirect for the old links, so your site could actually check itself to find the new URL
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KartikPrabhu yes! example: https://rudigermeyer.com/blog/webmentions
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes older URL do a permanent redirect so I should be able to check for it
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KartikPrabhu also bridgy got confused and resent some mentions due to POSSE-post-discovery now pointing to newer URLs :P
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aaronpk hmm please document these issues because I am about to launch totally new URLs and will run into the same problems :)
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KartikPrabhu aah sure
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KartikPrabhu what is redirect?
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Loqi A redirect is a way to automatically make one page on this wiki load another page https://indiewebcamp.com/redirect
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KartikPrabhu what is permalink
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Loqi A permalink is a URL which typically represents and retrieves a single post (also explicitly called a post permalink) https://indiewebcamp.com/permalink
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KartikPrabhu hmm no page for changing permalinks
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tantek.com edited /User:Www.madmode.com (+57) "h-card" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu Should I make a new section on /permalink ?
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tantek yes
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tantek aaronpk, reviewing the pages created in 2014 is finding some gems, like Dan Connolly showing up
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk sure wish i liked cookies because there are a looot of them here
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KartikPrabhu what is 304?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "304" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=304&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435184461976
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KartikPrabhu what is permanent redirect?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "permanent redirect" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=permanent+redirect&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435184515868
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tantek benwerd: "technostalgia" is an amazing portmanteau
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benwerd tantek: I was proud of it ;)
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tantek is still writing his reply
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tantek I feel like I'm writing a thoughtful response to an email, except I'm writing a reply post on my site to another post on another site.
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /salmentions (+600) "ActivityPump" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd's blog posts are just too darn thoughtful!
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KartikPrabhu what is POSSE-Post-discovery?
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Loqi POSSE-Post-Discovery is a way to find the canonical version of a post when a syndicated copy does not contain a link to the original https://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery
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benwerd tantek: I hope you caught that it was explicitly not a criticism of IndieWebCamp! Although it may have been explicitly a criticism of some other open standards communities ...
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tantek absolutely
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benwerd oolcool
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kartikprabhu.com edited /permalink (+877) "added changing permalinks section" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/permalink#Changing_Permalinks_to_posts submitting for review/edits/additions
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tantek Benwerd I did think the parenthetical exception about IWC "banning mailing lists" could have gone in your paragraph with "Mailing list after mailing list"
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tantek as it was a direct exception to the conclusion of that para: "Very little software was shipped, and as a result, very little actual innovation took place."
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tantek this: "(Special mention goes to the indie web community here, for specifically banning mailing lists and emphasizing shipping software.)"
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KevinMarks_ OK, noterlive now truncates the tweet preview
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tantek ellipses?
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tantek live preview while you're typing?
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tantek wow the /HTTPS page was created in 2014
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tantek goodness - 2014 was dense year for us
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KevinMarks_ Iyes
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KevinMarks_ well, I need to make it update when you edit other fields but yes
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tantek kevinmarks - that's awesome - please demo at HWC
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tantek benwerd: what do you think of having a time for lightning demos (1-2min?) at the start of HWC?
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tantek of stuff working on your own site
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benwerd tantek: I like
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tantek am trying to come up with ways to improve HWC in the "for the rest of us" thinking
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KevinMarks_ there have been HWC's where we got people up and running
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tantek we should continue to evolve the format of HWC as needed to be more inclusive of "the rest of us"
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benwerd that wasn't implicitly a HWC criticism either btw - just wondering if there's scope for the edu people etc who want more of a general info dump
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Loqi agreed.
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tantek benwerd: I want HWC to be able to be that for them too
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tantek even if that means we don't get as much "technical" discussion - I'm totally ok with that
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tantek benwerd++ for preserving the line breaks in my reply when showing up as a comment on his post!!! that's awesome (and first time I've seen that work via webmention)
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Loqi benwerd has 79 karma
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tantek here http://werd.io/2015/if-we-want-open-software-to-win-we-need-to#comments
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tantek also - the ability to write one reply and have it show up automatically as two comments (on separate posts) feels like magic
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kylewm how'd Known do that? adding <p>'s instead of linebreaks
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KartikPrabhu oh come one why did marginalia.js break now!
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benwerd kylewm: we do what WordPress does and reparse the HTML and add paragraph-level tags
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tantek but all it is is plain text with linebreaks in the whitespace on my end!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I preserve line breaks on webmention: https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia#response-replies
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tantek nice
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KartikPrabhu goes to see what broke in marginalia
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bret watching aaronpk preset right now :]
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benwerd go aaronpk!
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kylewm benwerd: ahhh so the text content is handled like a native comment would be
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bret Demoing the micropub article editor
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bret where is the link for that?
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kylewm https://quill.p3k.io/editor
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KartikPrabhu phew fixed marginalia, un related to permalink change
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bret would it be possible to rep the micropub link stuff in the header as microdata on human visible items/logos?
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bret or a good/bad idea?
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tantek any talky for aaronpk ?
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tantek bret - what would a micropub endpoint display to a user?
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tantek e.g. like what a webmention endpoint displays
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tantek rather than ask about how to link the micropub stuff - what's the use case of a visible link to it?
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Loqi [bridgy] Jeanie Aldrich liked a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://www.facebook.com/5410052/posts/10100801991015425)
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bret https://talky.io/iwc
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KartikPrabhu bret: you mean the "rel-" stuff used for micropub? I am sure you can markup it up as <a rel=""></a> " directly on your page. if you really want to add microdata to that sure
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tantek what would be the point?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: good question. I wsa just saying that one can do that without microdata
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I currently do have a micropub page that gives some info about what micropub is https://kartikprabhu.com/micropub
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KartikPrabhu could be a good way to make readers aware of some of the things indieweb does
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bret the idea would be to get the link data to your micropub, your auth provider out of invisible header tags, and attached to something human visible, like a logo to rep the service or provider as a way to advertise support
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bret i know you dont like logos
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tantek KartikPrabhu: by "microdata" do you mean just a rel link?
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tantek or is there some more complex description that you want to provide?
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KartikPrabhu no i mean no need for microdata. good ole' rel works just fine with visible <a> links
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KartikPrabhu what is microdata?
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GWG Good evening
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "microdata" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=microdata&summary=prompted+by+KartikPrabhu+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435188415038
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KartikPrabhu oh well
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tantek KartikPrabhu: lol - no need to start
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KartikPrabhu yeah not doing that :)
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tantek microformats.org/wiki/microdata
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Loqi [bridgy] Daniel P Johnson replied '@gRegorLove Maybe! It was good last year.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/teknotus/status/613849240381435904)
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GWG What is the best way to test webmentions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "best way to test webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=best+way+to+test+webmentions&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-06-24%2Fline%2F1435189358937
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acegiak morning, all
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GWG Morning, acegiak
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 5 hours, 36 minutes ago: I did minimal changes to start http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-24/line/1435169154170
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ben_thatmustbeme offhand i'd guess aaronpk got to the mobilepub slide. @TallySpace followed me
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GWG acegiak: To answer your question I just answered...I just changed the existing display to be aware webmentions existed
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tantek GWG - I believe /webmentions has some tests
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acegiak GWG: oh ok neat
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GWG acegiak: Do you have email notifications on?
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GWG tantek: I'll have to look. Firefox froze.
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acegiak GWG: yeah, I do
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GWG Have you noticed what the Bridgy webmentions look like?
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GWG That line is the default content filter.
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tantek we need a name for that aspect of content posting UIs that lets you [x] check/uncheck which other sites / silos to cross-post / POSSE to
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GWG tantek: I think Micropub calls it syndicate-to
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tantek it's not just a micropub / indieweb thing - it's something that's in many mobile apps have - e.g. [x] checkboxes (or toggle buttons) to cross-post to FB, Twitter
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GWG acegiak: I've been looking in Semantic Linkbacks...the wrong place. I need to look at webmentions.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: it would be useful to post links while referring to "that line"
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KartikPrabhu so that the conversation could be understood by others who might be silently following along and not just 2 people
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GWG Author: Bridgy Response (IP: 107.178.195.220, 220.195.178.107.gae.googleusercontent.com)
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GWG E-mail:
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GWG URL: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/dshanske/609831415715352576/3303061697
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GWG Whois: http://whois.arin.net/rest/ip/107.178.195.220
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GWG Comment:
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GWG This Article was mentioned on <a href="https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/dshanske/609831415715352576/3303061697" rel="nofollow">brid-gy.appspot.com</a>
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GWG Sorry. That was bigger than I thought
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GWG This is what WordPress displays for a Bridgy webmention.
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GWG I'm trying to fix it.
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GWG It's because WordPress's comment notification system doesn't know about webmentions. So it is trying to treat them like what it does know about.
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acegiak http://pastebin.com/rPDvJQuZ
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acegiak that's what I get
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acegiak the author for me lists the message?
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GWG acegiak: Exactly.
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KartikPrabhu anyone know a good tool to check that my permalink redirects are sending the correct redirect headers/status codes? FF dev tools only show the redirected response headers
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GWG I was trying to fix it in Semantic Linkbacks.
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acegiak ah
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tantek re: name for cross-post checkboxes - I guess I'll just start checking existing UIs to see what they're called (if anything)
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GWG It needs to be fixed in webmentions. I was looking in the wrong place.
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acegiak GWG: hmm. tricky
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KartikPrabhu tantek: afaik they are mostly under the list/menu named "share to" don't know of specific name for such an UI