#indiewebcamp 2015-07-09

2015-07-09 UTC
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Loqi [bridgy] Shaun Guice RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-15-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/106407686370243#10102250311694139)
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aaronpk oh my, my worker script got stuck trying to verify a webmention and now i'm processing a huge backlog
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aaronpk the spam pingbacks I get are pretty ridiculous
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tantek wondering if sss.stanford.edu is worth adding to /site-deaths
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tantek also wondering how to determine when it went down
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tantek via kylewm - the opening rhetorical question here is a great example of lack of selfdogfood: https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/618817474826498048
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@monteiro New on Dear Design Student: Why the hell is a designer not designing his own blog?!?https://deardesignstudent.com/why-is-a-designer-using-medium-5749604edcc?source=tw-41d2ecc0ae5-1436372495596#8ca7--share-0-33 https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/618817474826498048/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/618817474826498048)
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KevinMarks1 https://twitter.com/tomcoates/status/618936388092719104
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@tomcoates @kevinmarks You should really publish it on your own weblog rather than on some stupid centralized publishing service. (twitter.com/_/status/618936388092719104)
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tantek of some relevance to indieweb: http://mashable.com/2015/07/06/why-web-design-dead/ - in particular this assertion: “Symptom 4: Facebook pages as the new small-business homepage”
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KevinMarks1 (see that whole thread - I may have indiesniped Tom)
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Loqi [mention] http://dev.app3l.org/blog/?p=22 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/MetaWeblog (pingback)
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tantek wat
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kylewm seems like all the twitter people i like just got mad at each other :(
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tantek kylewm - don’t worry, they’re all being jovial about it - not actually mad. (having heard most of them talk, even to each other, in person)
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tantek definitely a LOLworthy thread
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KevinMarks1 tom may have given me my iwc project there
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tantek yeah
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KevinMarks1 though that will mean actually templating my site
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tantek KevinMarks++ for indiesniping tomcoates of all people
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Loqi KevinMarks has 125 karma
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KevinMarks1 also, about half the thread is now in my blogpost's comments, thanks to bridgy
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tantek kylewm: also, context, it’s quite late right now in the UK where adactio is, and that might be making him, particularly eager (not holding back) to reply on a Twitterfight.
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tantek do we have a place on the wiki where we document indieweb pain points?
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tantek more than just itches that is
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tantek things like: https://twitter.com/ade_oshineye/status/618874062333452288
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@ade_oshineye The punishment for self-hosting is eternal -damnation- maintenance. (twitter.com/_/status/618874062333452288)
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achangeiscoming.net edited /2015/Guest_List (+311) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /archival_copy (+178) "services, internet archive," (view diff)
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KevinMarks1 https://twitter.com/bobbie/status/618943363065090048
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@bobbie @kevinmarks @tomcoates @adactio are you using two services started by ev to tell me why a third service started by ev won't last? (twitter.com/_/status/618943363065090048)
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tantek nevermind Odeo, and while not technically started by ev, funded by his incubator Obvious: Branch
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aaronpk what a crazy thread
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@lucian @davewiner I still prefer a network of #indieweb + RSS. #openweb (twitter.com/_/status/618948230873661444)
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GWG Everyone counting down to IWC?
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tantek interesting article / criticism of /Twitter found via that tweet thread: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/style/twitter-who-do-you-think-you-are.html?_r=0
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tantek many of the questions asked could be asked of any indieweb effort as well
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tantek GWG - a bit anxiously, but yes :)
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GWG I look forward to participating remotely.
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tantek GWG, you asked earlier in the channel about implying post kinds right? or am I misremembering?
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GWG tantek: Not asked per se. It was one of my ideas for a solution to the post formats problem I was trying to come up with a proposal that people might get behind.
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tantek I believe implied post kinds is necessary for a variety of use-cases
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aaronpk oh man I'm getting pretty excited to turn that SD card into a micropub client
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aaronpk it arrives tomorrow, just in time for IWC
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tantek I’m wondering if we should set a goal to get 100% SWAT0 across 3 indieweb implementaitons for IWC 2015
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk i could be convinced to do that instead
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tantek (which AFAIK no one has ever done)
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GWG Post Formats in WordPress is this messy hybrid function that no one understands.
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aaronpk except argh my new site isn't ready to go yet
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tantek (Statusnet and Cliqset got *close* with two implementations)
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tantek (I think there’s a YouTube video that shows it working supposedly)
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tantek but it didn’t last, nor did it get any uptake beyond the demo
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tantek aaronpk - I’d say getting your new site hackable worthy should be your #1 coding goal in the next 48 hours.
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aaronpk oh my
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tantek time to take a another look at SWAT0 to see what’s left undefined
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tantek what is SWAT0?
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0 and is an user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined in 2010 https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0
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tantek How’s this for incentive for achieving 100% reproducible, selfdogfooded 3 person and sites and implementations SWAT0 at IWC 2015:
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tantek The first 3 people that get it working *with each other*, we update the /SWAT0 summary with THEIR NAMES and so it shall be set (as long as they maintain that functionality at a minimum on their site).
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aaronpk hehe i like it
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tantek open to remote attendees too of course, even more impressive if all 2+ geos are involved
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tantek right now I think ben_thatmustbeme is the only one that has person-tagging in posts working
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aaronpk IIRC only one person needs to be able to create a person-tag post, correct?
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tantek so he’s the current leading candidate for (A) here: http://tantek.com/2015/029/t1/swat0-posts-tags-mobile-photo-comment
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tantek this: https://twitter.com/t/status/560921112767242241
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@t SWAT0 A posts+tags mobile photo of B B photo notified C(follows A) sees it; replies A&B comment notified Prev: http://tantek.com/2015/029/t1/swat0-posts-tags-mobile-photo-comment (twitter.com/_/status/560921112767242241)
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tantek aaronpk, correct
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tantek however we currently have zero known examples of indieweb folks getting push notifications of person-mentions https://indiewebcamp.com/person_mention#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek (the *push* aspect of the notification was very much the intent in step 2)
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tantek original intent of SWAT0
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loqi.me created /communicator (+51) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, since you have notifications working, and close to getting push notifications working I suspect you’re the leading candidate for player B.
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tantek and player C, I think the leading candidate may be kylewm - since he has a reader
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek pretty sure kylewm can post a reply to a post directly from his reader via micropub
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tantek which will send a webmention to the photo publishers (e.g. Ben)
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tantek however, the notification to aaronpk (person-tagged subject of the photo) about the comment on the photo may depend on Ben supporting salmentions
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tantek and for that matter a previously undefined form of salmentions
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aaronpk here is how I imagined it https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/blob/master/user-stories/SWAT0.md
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tantek when someone comments on your post and sends you a webmention, you have to send a webmention onward to anyone person-tagged in the post
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tantek then *their* person-mention notification system has to know to receive salmentions, that is not only know about just “someone posted a photo that you’re in” BUT “someone commented on a photo that you’re tagged in"
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KevinMarks1 when I visited aaron last time, I webmentioned him and his watch buzzed
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tantek aaronpk - at that github summary this: “Because this is an update to the contents of the URL, Ben's server re-sends the original Webmentions to indicate there was an update to the receiver.” is now what we call a /salmention sender!
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tantek not sure if ben_thatmustbeme’s software supports sending salmentions
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tantek aaronpk: everything else you have written up in SWAT0.md aligns exactly with what I said above - so I just came up with the same thing you wrote. Good verification of your analysis.
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aaronpk great
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tantek the only change I would suggest is explicitly calling out the “re-sends the original Webmention to indicate there was an update” as supporting salmention sending
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aaronpk i chose the names for that writeup based on who I thought was closest in each category, but that has changed now
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tantek yes, don’t change the names yet
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tantek this also means you’ll have to support *receiving* a salmention
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aaronpk how do I receive a salmention?
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tantek this in particular in your write-up: “It sees there is a new property, comment, containing an h-cite.” is essentially support for receiving salmentions
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aaronpk oh I wrote that didn't I
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tantek support for receiving salmentions is nothing more than looking for *more* information when you receive a webmention
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aaronpk looks like /salmention needs a #How_To header
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tantek and then passing that along, exactly as you wrote it up: "Barnaby Walters commented on Ben Werd's photo of you"
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tantek the challenge here is that the only people supporting sending and receiving salmentions are acegiak and kylewm
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tantek yes, salmention was the last remaining building block piece missing from completing an indieweb explanation of how SWAT0 works
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aaronpk now I want a summary of SWAT0 showing what each person needs to implement to fill the role
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Loqi gives aaronpk a summary of SWAT
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tantek ok I think I can help with that
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aaronpk gives Loqi a summary of SWAT
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Loqi grabs the summary of SWAT
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aaronpk keep it, you'll need it later
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+1315) "resolved the last undefined piece by realizing that's exactly what salmentions (sending/receiving) do - invented/named since the last time we assessed what's in/missing in SWAT0 for indieweb" (view diff)
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tantek and with that, the last UNDEFINED thing in IndieWeb SWAT0 is now defined
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tantek we have a solution for how to implement SWAT0 using indieweb protocols, now to see if we can the pieces implemented
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk were you going to add a summary of what each person (role) needs to support?
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tantek braindumping that now
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aaronpk perfect
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tantek waves his hands over the keyboard
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acegiak Ok so here's a novel thing I've done:
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acegiak Amygdala is the platformer I've developed and I'm preparing for Steam launch so I'm re-examining high scores and achievements
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acegiak the current system is that anyone can enter any name they like when submitting high scores and achievements
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acegiak because they're good things pretending to be someone else doesn't really hurt them
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acegiak BUT some people might want to keep their record "clean"
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acegiak so now, on the high scores and achievement pages if the username is a domain name I add a delete button
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acegiak http://amygdala.machinespirit.net/scores/
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acegiak and then if you click that it will attempt to auth with indieauth.com and if successful, delete the record
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acegiak plan to add twitter auth and email tokens later but indieauth was easy to set up as proof of concept
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tantek cannot process, swap space locked with SWAT0 processing
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acegiak tantek: I put an indieauth.com powered delete button on my game's high-score board
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Jeena something went wrong with your page acegiak https://jeena.net/t/amygdala.png
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+1413) "first draft of implementation requirements for each of the SWAT0 players ABC" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - as requested: https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements
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tantek so the race is on, who will be first to implement all of A, or all of B, or all of C?
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acegiak jeena, can you hit it again so I can watch the error log as it flies past?
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ben_thatmustbeme i think i'm pretty close to A
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yes we think you’re in the lead for A
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tantek and aaronpk for B
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tantek and kylewm for C
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't do salmentions yet
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tantek you only have to support half of them
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tantek the sending half
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ben_thatmustbeme i also need to check that mobilepub can do person tagging on photos
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tantek which I think is the easier half
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tantek yes!
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ben_thatmustbeme also, my notifications aren't really correct, i get a notification there was a mention, thats all
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tantek really hoping kylewm is going to be able to participate remotely
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aaronpk both kylewm and I both fulfill C right now
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aaronpk tantek++ this is great
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Loqi tantek has 212 karma
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acegiak tantek: Interesting. I don't do point two of the C section because I expect the webmention I pass to the reply post to be forwarded upstream
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ben_thatmustbeme although we don't have 2d point tagging working at all
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aaronpk point tagging isn't important
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ben_thatmustbeme that became a mess in micropub as it was an embedded object
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tantek point tagging was never specified in SWAT0 and I think the consensus was that it was not necessary nor intended
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, headed to bed
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe tomorrow morning on the train ride in i'll get started on salmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme although, I'm so close to getting micropub chaining working. and i have just been too busy to finish it
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tantek acegiak++ for happening to describe, and name the last missing (undefined) piece we needed for SWAT0 indieweb building blocks!
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Loqi acegiak has 25 karma
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acegiak :P ta!
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tantek you had no idea you were creating such an essential building block did you? or maybe you did :)
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acegiak I knew it was an important feature that was missing from the experience I was wanting
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acegiak that's all
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KevinMarks that is the key
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KevinMarks seeing and documenting the gap
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tantek KevinMarks - I’m good at identifying gaps like that, but the solution to the gaps is sometimes so far away from personal itches / working on, that it’s hard to figure that out
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tantek however I can see when pieces fit together. thank you LEGO
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acegiak is trying to work out a way to authorise game players /before/ high score submission using indieauth
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acegiak I should wait until my meeting with my security friend before letting my mind run too wild
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: could you do me a favor and /person-tag me in a post?
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aaronpk tantek: the SWAT0 summary "aaronpk gets a person mention notification that he's been tagged in a photo" shouldn't that actually say "aaronpk gets a person-tag notification"?
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tantek yes
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tantek both are true
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aaronpk person-tag is a subset of person mention
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aaronpk but person mention is not sufficient for SWAT0
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tantek a person-tag notification is one form of person mention notification - see list here: https://indiewebcamp.com/person_mention#Why
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tantek other way around - person-tag is sufficient for SWAT0
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tantek no need to support all of person-mentions
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aaronpk i think we are saying the same thing
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aaronpk in SWAT0 the specific "was tagged in a photo" is the key, not just "was mentioned in a post"
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tantek agreed
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tantek fixing
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+137) "specify person-tag mentions when the detail is important above and beyond just a person-mention" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /implied_post_types (+56) "r prompted by acegiak https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-08/line/1436363738259" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: fixed
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aaronparecki.com edited /SWAT0 (+8) "linky" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 213 karma
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aaronpk now reading "B must support"
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aaronpk does that mean a notification like "was tagged in a post" is sufficient?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: hey acegiak, will you eventually add your salmention implementation to the wp webmention or semantic linkbacks plugins?
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GWG snarfed, I asked acegiak that as well.
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acegiak uhh
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acegiak https://github.com/acegiak/Semantic-Linkbacks/commits/master
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GWG acegiak: I just asked where it might fit the best
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acegiak I think the SENDING of salmentions got rolled back in one of my git fuckups
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acegiak but if you're using that version of semantic linkbacks you're accepting salmentions
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acegiak admittedly the implementation is bona-fide not the right way to do it but it works
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Loqi slack/snarfed: awesome thanks!
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tantek aaronpk - hence the possible newly raised importance of http://indiewebcamp.com/implied_post_types - so that you can determine that it’s a photo post
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aaronpk whoa where'd this come from
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tantek it’s quite old with lots of minor iterations over time
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aaronpk interestingly this is basically what I am doing in the implementation of my new site
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tantek aaronpk: not surprising, see the “Articles about …” ;)
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aaronpk jeez that was from 2012?
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aaronpk your original 2010 description of SWAT0 did say "B gets notified that they are in a photo"
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aaronpk http://tantek.com/2010/199/t3/fsws-social-web-acid-test-swat-v0
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tantek very well, then apparently Post Type Discovery is also a necessary building block, good thing it’s been gestating for 3+ years as a subsection of the /posts page!
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tantek happy to leave it as a subsection of the /posts page until someone implements it and documents why
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aaronpk SWAT0 would be a good reason why!
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tantek nevermind there’s an outstanding action for me to specify it for Social Web WG
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tantek maybe I should suggest it as its own Working Draft there
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tantek separate from AS2, so it doesn’t need to have all the baggage
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aaronpk interestin
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aaronpk okay so reading https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag ... in order to consume a person-tag I need to check if any of the values of "category" for the post are an h-card with my site as the url?
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tantek or if any of the links to your site are a u-category h-card
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tantek or maybe you’re thinking from the perspective of using the parsed JSON output?
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tantek because the intent was you could just do it as part of webmention target verification
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aaronpk my webmention handling code works like: look for <a> tag with href = my site, then parse for mf2 and possibly upgrade it from a generic mention to something more specific
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aaronpk so yes, thinking from the perspective of working with the parsed JSON output
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tantek ah you’re using the “parse for mf2” as the method to upgrade from generic mention
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tantek ok that makes sense
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aaronpk yep that was the easiest
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aaronpk wow getting notification text right is subtly hard
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aaronpk ah there's a very different pattern for notifications of your home page!
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aaronpk "{author} tagged you in a {source post type}" vs "{author} liked your {target post type}"
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aaronpk for regular mentions, I want to know more about the thing on my site being mentioned
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aaronpk for home page mentions, I want to know more about the post that mentioned me
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aaronpk so that happens now
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@mikkelz_za RT @SaraSoueidan: #TIL about IndieWeb POSSE: Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE —this is why I love T… (twitter.com/_/status/619004610523594754)
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aaronpk whee now I can receive person tags
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aaronpk and have notification text that says "{author} tagged you in a photo" as well as "{author} liked your post"
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aaronpk this should improve my experiences with bridgy greatly :)
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tantek whoa
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 871 karma
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tantek aaronpk: re: “getting notification text right is subtly hard” yes! hence the importance of text first design!
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@AlexKKearney Woo, just added geolocation. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/9/woo-just (twitter.com/_/status/619010028788416513)
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tantek aaronpk this is good to document on /notification#Brainstorming ! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-08/line/1436414955233
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tantek aaronpk wait so have you implemented http://indiewebcamp.com/implied_post_types#Inferring_post_kinds_from_properties then?
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tantek or at least a subset thereof?
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aaronpk a small subset!
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tantek aaronpk - would be really interesting to know what subset
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tantek implementer subsetting is one of the best forms of feedback for aspirational specs
tantek, gavinc, KevinMarks_, Zegnat, sanduhrs, Jihaisse, lukebrooker, KevinMarks__, eschnou, glennjones, friedcell, petermolnar, yakker, csarven, keroberos, evalica, mapkyca, sivoais, Sebastien-L, tvn, frzn and adactio joined the channel
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+209) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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cweiske kylewm, I shrunk the setup instructions for the tt-rss subtome plugin quite a bit now:
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cweiske 1. Go to Tiny Tiny RSS preferences.
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cweiske that's it
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cweiske :)
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cweiske https://github.com/cweiske/tt-rss-subtome#usage
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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cweiske.de edited /SubToMe (+144) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://dexpage.com/what-is-the-future-of-openid-openid2-open-connect-is-it-worth-implementing-a-provider/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Web_sign-in (pingback)
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@pypi_updates django-webmention 0.0.1: A pluggable implementation of webmention for Django projects. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-webmention/0.0.1 (twitter.com/_/status/619110252395536384)
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@artwisanggeni #python django-webmention 0.0.1: A pluggable implementation of webmention for Django projects. https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-webmention/0.0.1 (twitter.com/_/status/619114420791218177)
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GWG Morning, all
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@PythonJo PyPI latest- django-webmention added to PyPI https://pypi.python.org/pypi/django-webmention #jo #amman #JPY (twitter.com/_/status/619116806570033152)
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: if I'm reading salmention description right, why do you poll from the comments on the reply and not from the original?
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme, there shouldn't be any polling involved. Just checking for updates on a reply when you receive another webmention from it
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@Ubikuity Google just started to offer personalized Gmail address (you@yourdomain.com) for $1 per user per month #OwnYourData https://twitter.com/Ubikuity/status/619139516373278720/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/619139516373278720)
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petermolnar that has nothing to do with ownyourdata az all :((
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@petermolnar @Ubikuity this has nothing to do with #ownyourdata; hell, this is the opposite, not even knowing you're sending to Google's all seeing eyes (twitter.com/_/status/619139938525822976)
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GWG petermolnar: It means Google has gone from free provider to service provider. Google Apps id not something a single user would use for their one email
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petermolnar sure; this not #ownyourdata
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GWG petermolnar: It is in a data portability dense, but overall no
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GWG sense not dense
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petermolnar your keyboard caught a cold :) ( 'you're not fine when you say a D at the end of fine' Friends )
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GWG I have a cold.
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petermolnar get well soon, then
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GWG But I make typos more on mobile
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: so its not "forward the webmention up the tree" its "resend the same webmention as before"
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ben_thatmustbeme if B is a reply to A and B receives a reply C, then B send A we WM of target=A, source=B
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ben_thatmustbeme i was thinking it would send WM(t=B,s=C)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, not polling, was on my phone on the train
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ben_thatmustbeme and brain still waking up
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@jechtom RT @Ubikuity: Google just started to offer personalized Gmail address (you@yourdomain.com) for $1 per user per month #OwnYourData http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/619143629798510592)
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ben_thatmustbeme did i just writing Webmention math?
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme, yep that's right. Effectively when you receive a wm from a downstream, you send one upstream. I think that's all that was meant about forwarding up the tree
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, that doesn't answer my question though
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ben_thatmustbeme what is the exact webmention i am sending
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exact webmention i am sending" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=exact+webmention+i+am+sending&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-09%2Fline%2F1436450712360
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ben_thatmustbeme i reply to aaron, you reply to me
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ben_thatmustbeme when i process your reply
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ben_thatmustbeme is send to aaron a webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme s/is/I/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: I send to aaron a webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme do i send (source=ben, target=aaron) or (source=kyle, target=ben)
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Zegnat Question in Math: when B receives WM(t=B,s=C), should B send WM(t=A,s=C) or WM(t=A,s=B)?
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ben_thatmustbeme i had assume the latter, as then you can build infinitely down (or a person replying can send the same WM all the way up, the middle doesn't need to support salmentions at all
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ben_thatmustbeme Zegnat: close, but i figures (t=B,s=C) not (t=A,s=C)
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ben_thatmustbeme can make that even more concise, WM(C->B) or WM(B->A)
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure WM(C->A) would work
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ben_thatmustbeme well, you can process the in-reply-to from C and then check if B is something you have already parsed or not, so yes, i suppose that could work
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Zegnat Alright, trying again, the question marks are discussed here, right?: A = Post; B = Reply to A; C = Reply to B; B receives WM(C->B); B sends WM(?->?) to C.
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ben_thatmustbeme a/B sends WM(?->?) to C/B sends WM(?->? to A
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek is going to look at this later and be like... WHAT??
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ben_thatmustbeme i think all 3 options can work (B->A), (C->B), (C->A)
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ben_thatmustbeme (B->A) is certainly simplest for B, but for A it requires processing for edits and for all replies
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ben_thatmustbeme C does not need to support Salmentions in that case
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ben_thatmustbeme and A only needs support reprocessing replies and displaying responses to replies (and possibly resplies to replies to replies to ....)
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Zegnat I think, reading /Salmentions, it goes: C says it replies to B, WM(C->B), B parses the reply and *includes it on its page*, then B tells A it has been updated by resending WM(B->A). The wiki says that A is supposed to check the first reply and parse “the second reply (which is displayed as a comment on the first reply)”
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Zegnat So as described on /Salmentions it only works if B actively displays replies on its post pages
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, thats what i'm guessing
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ben_thatmustbeme but it does get confusing once you go beyond 2 levels i think
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kylewm yes I agree wtih Zegnat, you resend the same original webmention B->A
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ben_thatmustbeme when it percolates all the way back up from WM(Z->Y) then B is displaying a complex tree
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ben_thatmustbeme that A then has to know what to do with
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Zegnat yep, and if K displays replies in a flat style instead of a tree then all levels of comments are reset. Very vulnerable system
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed, that can get messy
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ben_thatmustbeme for my storage system it would be much easier if i got a WM(C->B)
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Zegnat kylewm, you are one of the two only implementations. Have you thought about handling multi-level replies yet?
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Loqi [mention] Tino Kremer commented 'Why I write on my own site first 4 min read There are many s...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://stream.tinokremer.nl/2015/why-i-write-on-my-own-site-first)
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ben_thatmustbeme since i already have B stored, i just need to fetch C
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kylewm Zegnat: it just shows a flat list, sorted in the order received
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Zegnat ben_thatmustbeme: I originally thought that was the idea, to literally “pass along the WM”. So if I receive WM(C->B) I also send WM(C->B) to A
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kylewm it seems pretty weird to send a webmention to A where target is not on A; though youcould definitely make it work that way, that seems like a much bigger departure from how webmention usually works
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parzzix just saw this conversation...holy confused I am.....lol
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Zegnat I was actually reading the /Webmention page to see if implementations should even accept non-self targets
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Zegnat “The receiver SHOULD check that target is a valid resource belonging to it […]” - might require a spec change to allow non-self targets
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Zegnat acegiak seemed to have specified salmentions as just “an update mention” on her blog: https://acegiak.net/2015/06/09/not-necessarily-threaded-comments-like-reddit-but-i-think-theres-broad-consensus-that-if-you-reply-to-a-reply-it-would-be/
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Zegnat ie. resending WM(B->A)
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tantek reads logs
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aaronpk reads logs
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tantek kylewm clearly “forward” is open to easy misinterpretation in the context of salmentions, and thus we probably shouldn’t use the term to describe what is happening
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aaronpk tantek: currently I determine post type by looking for the h- type and then presence of certain properties, in this type order: event, drink, food, sleep, video, photo
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aaronpk i need to add 'article' next, but that is more complicated because it involves normalizing and comparing the "name" vs "content" properties
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tantek kylewm is correct re: “it seems pretty weird to send a webmention to A where target is not on A”
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tantek that breaks existing webmention, and adds unnecessary complexity to webmention processing
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kylewm tantek: ben_thatmustbeme: does it say "forward" somewhere on the wiki?
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tantek kylewm checking
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tantek (I just saw it in IRC)
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tantek not on /salmention
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tantek nor /SWAT0
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tantek nor in any combination with “webmention” on any page.
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aaronpk haha "tantek is going to look at this later and be like... WHAT??"
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Loqi awesome
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Zegnat What is SWAT0?
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0 and is an user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined in 2010 https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0
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Zegnat Thanks Loqi
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tantek aaronpk: it’s ok, I’ve developed a complexity filter ;)
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek !tell acegiak: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-08/line/1436409419389 “forward” appears to be open to easy misinterpretation [1] in the context of salmentions, and thus we probably shouldn’t use the term to describe what is happening. [1] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436450175162
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek kylewm: reference found ^^^
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kylewm gotcha
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ben_thatmustbeme so we are OK with 1 person doing flat responses instead of threaded messing everything up?
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aaronpk i don't think it matters if someone displays flat responses vs threaded
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aaronpk won't the algorithm work regardless?
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ben_thatmustbeme well, yes, but all those response when processed up, loses all threading
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ben_thatmustbeme unless you look at every reply and process that way
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aaronpk if each comment had an in-reply-to property when displayed as a comment you could put the threading back together if you want
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aaronpk personally i don't ever want to display threaded comments, I think the fact that most systems have moved away from that is telling
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aaronpk but I would like to show/link to the context for each comment because that's helpful when discussions get really long
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Zegnat Facebook is moving towards threaded comments instead of away from them
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aaronpk only one level deep
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ben_thatmustbeme thats fine when you are only doing replies to your post, but now we are taking replies from further down
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ben_thatmustbeme it could get confusing
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Zegnat aaronpk, true, only 1 level
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aaronpk anyway point is, displaying threaded vs flat vs some hybrid is a personal preference, and isn't actually affected by how salmention works
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Zegnat as long as in-reply-to is included display doesn’t really matter, otherwise salmention is affected because the receiver is supposed to get the whole comment thread from the sender. So the way the sender includes comments on their site has a direct effect. That’s what ben_thatmustbeme was afraid for as weakness, if I understood right
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aaronpk but you can always go fetch the original
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Zegnat that would require you to “reindex” every single comment in the thread every time you get an update mention, because you don’t know which one triggered the update
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aaronpk i don't think so
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yellowrabbitapps.co.uk edited /2015/Brighton (+177) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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aaronpk if I get a webmention from your page, I would just check the contents of that page to see which comment is new
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aaronpk then I could go fetch that comment's URL to find the canonical data for it including in-reply-to
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Zegnat Basically treating the comment list on a post only as a list of permalinks?
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aaronpk yep
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tantek either approach is reasonable
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tantek build what’s easier for you to get working and see what happens!
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aaronpk :)
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Zegnat I could definitely see that working, because then all the actual data you are using will be from the individual reply pages
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tantek yup. tradeoff data integrity vs. # of HTTP requests etc.
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tantek best solved by experimentation :)
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aaronpk my personal preference would be to go fetch the comment from the source, since that means the whole page would also get archived by my system
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tantek hey anyone else use a legacy feed reader and see <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">CSS… in the title of my recent blog post?
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ben_thatmustbeme i would fetch from source as well
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ben_thatmustbeme s/fetch/prefer to fetch/
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tantek I just got an email bug report from a Feedly user
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: i would prefer to fetch from source as well
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tantek so I replied with a proof of my feed being correct / valid per spec and validator and asked them to file a bug report against Feedly :)
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Zegnat I don’t see any problems in my feed reader, Tantek
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tantek Zegnat cool :)
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Zegnat tantek: http://i.imgur.com/MwtiL3k.jpg , looks the way I expected it to
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tantek bug report on /Feedly for reference: https://plus.google.com/110760594609453531817/posts/2J3wWDsJFnU
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/619156883899703296
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@kevinmarks “The Awl makes a virtue out of its narrow audience when talking to advertisers, calling their readers "indielectuals" http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/9/8908279/the-awl-profile-choire-sicha-john-herrman-matt-buchanan (twitter.com/_/status/619156883899703296)
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KevinMarks__ Facebook's reply threading is a way of not sending notifications
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KevinMarks__ If I reply to your fb post normally, and you respond in the same way, I get notified
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KevinMarks__ If you reply directly to me, I get notified
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KevinMarks__ But if you reply directly to someone else's reply, I don't
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chreekat KevinMarks__: I dislike that about reddit, too. Esp. on reddit, where a reply-to-a-reply-to-me does not notify me.
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chreekat I like threading, but i like explicitly opting out of conversations more
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ben_thatmustbeme on G+its the other extreme
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KevinMarks__ So if you want to emulate their threading, you would selectively send comments triggered webmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme if i reply to Kevin's post and then someone else replies to Kevin's post, i get notified
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ben_thatmustbeme which is why they added a mute button for that
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ben_thatmustbeme G+ is more like "if i reply to a post then i am actually subscribing to all updates on that post"
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ben_thatmustbeme at least it was, i don't know if they have fixed that recently, but i stopped using it mostly. mainly because there is no write API
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KevinMarks_ Interesting from slack extending like to all emoji http://slackhq.com/post/123561085920/reactions
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aaronpk whoa
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KevinMarks_ Given that my face piles have ♥ and ♻ already thanks to webmention.herokuapp.com
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Zegnat That is an interesting move by Slack. It does finally allow for 👎 to be used
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KevinMarks_ Also 🚂 and 📛
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Loqi slack/kylewm: this feature seems... unnecessary :stuck_out_tongue:
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Loqi slack/aaronpk: Doesn't really translate to IRC unfortunately
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aaronpk I kind of like the idea of putting emoji reactions on my own post, and allowing people to click them
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KevinMarks_ And custom emoji, so zoidberg and left shark show up
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aaronpk i could allow people to click them after they sign in with indieauth
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KevinMarks_ One answer to star versus heart is all the stars and hearts
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kylewm -1 to a fixed set of emoji though, sounds very buzzfeed-y (trashy, lol, wow, etc.)
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kylewm i noticed that nytimes article about twitter took an anti-"favorite", pro-"like" stance
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aaronpk ooh I could let people click from the list after signing in, but if you wanted to add a new emoji to the list, you'd have to write a reply post and send me a webmention :)
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aaronpk and of course accept votes as webmentions too
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KevinMarks_ Is the webmention a u-like-of?
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aaronpk hm, not really
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gRegorLove I'm pretty pro-heart, pro-favorite, anti-like
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Jeena So which time does it start tomorrow?
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Jeena (in Portland)
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aaronpk the pre-party in portland is 4:30-6:30
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KevinMarks_ So, how do we mark up an emoji reaction?
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aaronpk hm i should probably send out an email summary of the schedule and stuff, since i have a bunch of email addresses from the ti.to registrations
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bret Zegnat: modern irc clients support emoji
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bret 👍 👻
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kylewm man, Woodwind has started taking a really long time to load, and I don't know why
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KevinMarks_ Use chrome's profiler?
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kylewm oh it's almost all database calls on the backend
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kylewm i just can't figure out why they're so slow all of a sudden
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rhiaro wonders vaguely about people sending rectangles to each other
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rhiaro 's irc client is obviously less sophisticated than others
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KevinMarks_ What's the backend?
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KevinMarks_ hasn't looked at wordwind source
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KevinMarks_ ⬜ for rhiaro
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kylewm KevinMarks_: it's Flask with SQLAlchemy connected to Postgres
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rhiaro <3 []
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kylewm anybody good at reading SQL EXPLAIN? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/psql-explain.png
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csarven kylewm If it was SPARQL, I would ;)
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aaronpk i'm sure there are some guides tha would help
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csarven It is just merging two tables on some columns
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aaronpk i'd just go make sure you have indexes on everything you're using to join and in where clauses
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bret kylewm: you might try implementing new relic's trial to see if you get hints
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kylewm ++ everyone for not giving me a hard time for /database-antipattern
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ben_thatmustbeme index by your IDs you are joining on, and by anything you have in where clause and ORDER BY
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aaronpk ironically this is actually a case where a relational database is not always the best solution :P
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aaronpk read about how twitter constructs peoples' home timelines and you'll see what i mean
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Zegnat bret: I know IRC support emoji, I wrote the thumbs down here on IRC. But people have been asking for a thumb-down next to thumb-up on Facebook for years, that’S what I was getting at
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aaronpk also this is where memcache came from, made by bradfitz for livejournal
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bret ohhh lol
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KevinMarks_ Woodwind was responding well for me, so may be a function of who you're subscribed to
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csarven emoji--
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Loqi emoji has -1 karma
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csarven --emoji--
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csarven Strong dislike on the idea of the OS taking over text chars
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csarven goes outside for fresh air
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aaronpk taking over? the OS is always responsible for displaying characters...
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Zegnat The OS doesn’t even impose emoji, the Unicode Consortium does
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kylewm adding a couple of indices seems to have helped a bit
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kylewm KevinMarks_: oh that's interesting
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kylewm considers periodically shuffling off old entries into an archive table...
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KevinMarks_ Slowest for me was 60ms
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KevinMarks_ the 2 stages of database slowness:
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KevinMarks_ 1st your data stops fitting into ram, table scans slow down 3 orders of magnitude
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KevinMarks_ You add indexes, continue
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KevinMarks_ Later, your indexes stop fitting into ram, you slow down another 3 orders of magnitude
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gRegorLove Out of curiosity, how many feeds are you subscribed to kylewm?
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KevinMarks_ Hm, so is there any way I could handle salmentions when my webmentions are run through js insertion
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KevinMarks_ Would webmention.herokuapp.com have to synthesise them?
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KevinMarks_ Adding memcache is a way of dedicating ram on other machines to stop you churning the database's cache
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kylewm gRegorLove: 97 (!)
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gRegorLove Whoa.
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gRegorLove I'm up to 30.
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gRegorLove I need to sift through my old OPML file and set up a 'following' page. Then it will go way up.
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+69) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ So, should I update to Yosemite? Any actual gains worth the "where did my dev tools go?"
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aaronpk "where did my dev tools go" is solved by having documentation on how you installed them in the first place and just doing that again
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KevinMarks_ So, that will work for next time if I document it this time
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aaronpk worth it
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snarfed e.g. http://snarfed.org/2013-03-02_mac_os_x
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aaronpk wow great writeup
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snarfed thanks!
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snarfed KevinMarks you may be interested in https://snarfed.org/2013-03-02_mac_os_x#Yosemite
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snarfed (sorry, that anchor is behaving badly, not sure why)
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aaronpk omg mine keeps adding the "-2" to the name too! thanks!
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KevinMarks I assume the discoveryd bug is gone with .4 ?
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snarfed i stopped seeing the bug, but no clue why
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aaronpk i'm on 10.10.2 and still see it
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KevinMarks 10.10.4 remobves discoveryd for mdnsresponder
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KevinMarks which was what Iw as waiting for before upgrading
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snarfed pre .4, try that —no-namechange plist change, might work
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aaronpk oh am i that far out of date?
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KevinMarks http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/05/new-os-x-beta-dumps-discoveryd-restores-mdnsresponder-to-fix-dns-bugs/
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snarfed rip bonjour
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snarfed was so ahead of its time back in the day
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KevinMarks no, it's back
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snarfed oh! i misread that slug
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KevinMarks and still open source
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KevinMarks though maybe not the iOS build
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snarfed ios open source lol
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KevinMarks well, the darwin/freebsd core is, kinda
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snarfed any fragmention users or developers here? (JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu)
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JonathanNeal I am.
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snarfed hey JonathanNeal!
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JonathanNeal HEY snarfed
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snarfed my site uses fragmention.js, and i'm debugging why this behaves oddly: https://snarfed.org/2013-03-02_mac_os_x#Yosemite
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snarfed i think it's because fragmention.js detects and handles existing ids, but not <a name>s…?
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JonathanNeal Right you are. https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions/blob/master/fragmention.js#L28
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snarfed cool, thanks. let me know if you want me to file an issue
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JonathanNeal What is the expected result? I was taken right to the Yosemite section on the page.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "expected result" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=expected+result&summary=prompted+by+JonathanNeal+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-09%2Fline%2F1436466316433
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snarfed JonathanNeal: oh! i wasn't. i'm first taken to the Yosemite link in the TOC. if i click on the url bar and press enter again, it then takes me to the section
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snarfed firefox 39 on mac os x
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snarfed i expected it'd immediately take me to the section because of the <a name>
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GWG snarfed: Do you use post formats in WordPress?
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snarfed GWG: no clue
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snarfed probably not
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JonathanNeal snarfed: would you be willing to test something for me?
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snarfed JonathanNeal: sure!
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JonathanNeal snarfed: I’d like to know if this behavior works the same if the element is not an <a>. Other elements to try would be a heading element and an input element.
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GWG snarfed: I am thinking of trying to get involved with their revamping.
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GWG Looking for Indieweb feedback
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snarfed JonathanNeal: got it. want me to change it to anything in particular? p?
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snarfed GWG: gl!
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JonathanNeal I you can setup a page with that. I will do all the browser testing ASAP (today) and push the change ASAP (today).
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snarfed oh definitely not urgent
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snarfed updating the page
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JonathanNeal Sure, <h3 name=“fragment”>, <p name=“fragment”>, and <input name=“fragment”>, somewhere that would make the page need to scroll down.
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JonathanNeal And I will see which browsers scroll.
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snarfed cool
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JonathanNeal Hopefully, all browsers behave the same, and this isn’t a special Firefox behavior that only has to do with <a name>
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KevinMarks chrome and safari went to the Yosemite header for me correctly
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GWG snarfed: gI?
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snarfed good luck
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GWG Oh, I thought that was an I. Oops.
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JonathanNeal Ping me when that test is ready and I’ll have at it, snarfed
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GWG snarfed: None of my attempts to get more Indieweb stuff into WordPress have met with interest.
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snarfed JonathanNeal: thanks! will do
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snarfed it's updated, but my site is now unhappy, so…meh
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@TapestryMaker Yes: Looking forward to #indiewebcamp in Portland - and @benwerd, excited to hear about the latest from @w ... http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2015/yes-looking-forward-to-indiewebcamp-in-portland---and-benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/619222340468088832)
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csarven aaronpk Zegnat What I intended to say was that when crappy OSes match a string with their internal emojis representations, it overrides the "text" with the graphical view of that text. For example, if you are on Mac OS X, you will probably see the character ✊ (raised fist) graphically as opposed to a glyph being rendered by a font available in the system.
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Zegnat ah, gotcha csarven
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KevinMarks slack lets you pick which emoji set to use
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csarven emojis are not consistent across systems. Not anymore than a default set of font families. I highly prefer to rely on a particular font family to deliver that (which will be fairly consistent across systems, if the family is availabe), then some gimmick taking over.
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KevinMarks https://slack.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206870187-Changing-your-emoji-style
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JonPincus KevinMarks and tantek, remember me demoing TapestryMaker's emoji reactions to you at HWC last summer? good to see the silos catching up :)
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KevinMarks indeed
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JonPincus it really does make a huge difference -- especially on mobile
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Zegnat Unicode Consortium is trying to fix some emoji irregularities though, right? redefining dancer I believe and getting strict re orientation rules (so e.g. gun always aims to the same side)
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Zegnat So consistency should increase
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snarfed JonathanNeal: https://snarfed.org/2013-03-02_mac_os_x now has <p name>, <h3 name>, and <input name>
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JonathanNeal Awesome, what are those names?
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snarfed oh, all Yosemite
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snarfed sorry, did you want something else?
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JonathanNeal Array.prototype.map.call(document.body.querySelectorAll('[name]'), function (element) { return element.name });
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KevinMarks is tryign to use flexbox on semantic elements fruitless?
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snarfed JonathanNeal: iterating on this will probably be faster with a local html file :P
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KartikPrabhu I thought "name" attribute was considered obsolete
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sure, may be, but that's no reason to break backward compatibility
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tantek it is
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snarfed sigh
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: fair argument
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snarfed i have lots of old html. i'd like to use new code. the argument here is…i'm out of luck unless i migrate all of my old html?!
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tantek except on forms
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tantek er, inputs.
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snarfed tantek don't you usually argue to make things easy for publishers?
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tantek snarfed, not disagreeing with you.
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes. I agree that fragmention.js might want to take into account nam
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snarfed oh sorry, i think i misread the "it is"
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snarfed right. sorry. ignore me.
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tantek I mistimed the it is ;) it was in-reply-to KartikPrabhu
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snarfed lol yes. drawback of online text comms :P
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that is how I read it :P
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JonathanNeal Name is deprecated, but should still be supported. Is that the consensus?
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gRegorLove kylewm: Looking for a link I think you shared recently about updating startssl certificates
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tantek JonathanNeal: it’s trickier than that.
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tantek “name” is a legit attribute on input elements, e.g. for grouping radio buttons
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: for fragmention.js I think supporting name would be a good thing for back-compat reasaons as snarfed said
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KartikPrabhu tantek: oh! yeah. name on inputs might mess somethings up
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tantek but <a name> and <area name> is obsolete, yet worth supporting for backcompat as snarfed points out
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tantek however, <randomElement name> MUST not be supported
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tantek e.g. <p name> is nonsense
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KartikPrabhu fragmention.js at the moment does not look at tag-names
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tantek then it should
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal might have to code a DOM parser into fragmention.js :P
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JonathanNeal That’s a bit trickier, isn’t it. So <input name=“fragment”> should not be scrolled to, is that correct?
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JonathanNeal Is that the behavior in Firefox?
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tantek JonathanNeal: correct
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tantek then only name attrs that create fragments to scroll to are on <a> and <area>
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JonathanNeal That’s still very doable, but a bit more tricky.
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tantek in practice you could likely get away with just <a name> support
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KartikPrabhu if one adds <a name> suport then <area name> might not be much of a stretch
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JonathanNeal And no matter what, we scroll to id=“fragment”, even if it is on an input or such?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: i think so
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KartikPrabhu anything that counts as a fragment should be scrolled to so any id, and <a name> <area name>
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tantek yes, id attribute is global
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bear puts on his Indieweb Ops hat...
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bear if you run servers you will want to check if you need a new version of OpenSSL - see https://www.openssl.org/news/vulnerabilities.html for details
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tantek oh is it that time of the quarter?
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bear if you run on a mac and use homebrew you can do this via: brew update && brew upgrade openssl
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bear yep :/
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kylewm gRegorLove: I'm not seeing anything particularly relevant in my browser history, though I did generate a new StartSSL cert recently...
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kylewm bear: this SSL vulnerability doesn't have as good of branding as the last few
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bear yea, it lacks marketing flare
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snarfed bear: iirc this only affects openssl versions since june or so right?
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bear yes, specific versions
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snarfed i think literally only affects versions that are ~1mo old
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snarfed so probably very very few of us (probably none) admin ssl stacks with one of those versions
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bear 1.0.2c, 1.0.2b, 1.0.1o, 1.0.1n
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snarfed yup, dates on those are very recent
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snarfed anyway
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bear if you run older ubuntu or redhat you will have to check
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kylewm ubuntu 14.04 has 1.0.1f from Jan 2014
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bear I'm posting because with Ubuntu end-of-lifing their older TLS a lot of personal servers are now risky
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bear s/TLS/LTS/
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Loqi bear meant to say: I'm posting because with Ubuntu end-of-lifing their older LTS a lot of personal servers are now risky
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snarfed 1.0.2b/c are from june, 1.0.1n/o are from at least march or april
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bear yea, everyone should run: openssl version
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bear and check their versions
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gRegorLove kylewm: I think it might have been https://kuix.de/blog/index.php?entry=SSL/TLS-servers,-SHA-1/SHA-256-and-StartSSL.com-certificates I might just be starting from scratch anyway, since my personal certificate expired. Sent them an email to merge my accounts.
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gRegorLove Yeah, they told me since all my certs are expired, just continue with the new account.
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gRegorLove revisits https://konklone.com/post/switch-to-https-now-for-free
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gRegorLove Ooh https://sslmate.com/ looks interesting, if you don't mind $16/year
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kylewm I want to say KartikPrabhu switched to sslmate (in a fit of pique at startssl)
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gRegorLove What is sslmate?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sslmate" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=sslmate&summary=prompted+by+gRegorLove+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-09%2Fline%2F1436474426731
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aaronpk once I realized that startssl only uses the public key in the CSR, I just leave a CSR on my server and use that every time I need a new cert
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gRegorLove sslmate is https://sslmate.com/
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loqi.me created /sslmate (+58) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436474426731 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: gRegorLove: hmm yes I did
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kartikprabhu.com edited /sslmate (+110) "add me" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal How do I label these elements? anchorable?
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KartikPrabhu that is not a bad name
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu, snarfed, updated: https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions/
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snarfed JonathanNeal: ooh thanks!
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snarfed yay, works great!
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Loqi woot
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KartikPrabhu is so confused by github interface.
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KartikPrabhu how do I update my fork of fragmentions!
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aaronpk afaik you have to do it from command line or git app
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bret KartikPrabhu: what do you mean by update?
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bret two options, merge new changes in, or rebase
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KartikPrabhu bret: I have a fork. JonathanNeal just made changes to the original. I want to update my fork with those changes
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aaronpk git pull origin master; git push kartik master
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snarfed aaronpk++
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KartikPrabhu :| why does github have a GUI then!?
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Loqi aaronpk has 873 karma
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bret ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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KartikPrabhu goes back to science, which is easier
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snarfed git is a funny combination of brutally simple internals and brutally complicated UI
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snarfed github helps the UI part a bit, but only a bit
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: are you comfortable in the terminal?
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bret merges and stuff on gh are confusing
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aaronpk I suspect github will add that feature soon, it's kind of weird it's still missing
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I can do it through the command line but I was hoping to do it quickly with some clicks. Also I don't have the fork locally
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KartikPrabhu oh I do have it locally. ok command line here we go
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JonathanNeal I can show you what to do.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: no I got it on the command line. thanks :)
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JonathanNeal Awesome.
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KartikPrabhu alright done :)
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KevinMarks you can do it with the UI but you end up making a pull request from master to you
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KartikPrabhu err yeah that's why i got confused. I tried it on my fork and it was "sending a PR to the original"
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KartikPrabhu anyway add upstream-pull-automerge-push on command line did it. a few lines really
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KartikPrabhu GUI is hard
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gRegorLove Arg. I'm still getting "outdated security settings" warning in Chrome after updating my StartSSL to SHA256
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gRegorLove Oh, I think the Startcom root cert in the trust store is still SHA1 for some reason.
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tantek I think I’m going to manually copy (incorporate into the post) a few indieweb replies to my recent post but not the silo comments (which I’ll wait til I have code that process the webmention queue).
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tantek Am I the only one that does that? Manually copies comments into a post?
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tantek what is a post footer?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "post footer" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=post+footer&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-09%2Fline%2F1436482207012
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KartikPrabhu I have done that with blogs that don't support webmention
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snarfed tantek: traditional publishers do that sometimes, right?
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rhiaro I manually add replies to my database when I particularly want them to show up, as I'm not receiving webmentions or scraping them from webmention.io yet
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rhiaro via SPARQL query :)
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tantek post footer is /posts#Footer_sections
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loqi.me created /post_footer (+34) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436482207012 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek funny thing is, even just manually copying the comments into a post forces you to solve the /comments_presentation problem
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rhiaro automatically showing mentions on posts is my goal for this weekend I think
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tantek rhiaro: awesome! Adactio can likely help you with that if you run into any trouble.
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tantek just realizing my articles don’t explicitly link to syndicated copies
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tantek I mean, not automatically at least, despite the data being in storage
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gRegorLove Can any TLS gurus help me out with the "outdated security settings" on https://gregorlove.com/ The intermediate cert I set up includes the root SHA2 cert and class1 SHA2 cert but https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=gregorlove.com still shows SHA1 for cert path #2.
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tantek.com created /comments_presentation (+35) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: examples copied from Wordpress comments section https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-metric-clifford-signs2#response-replies
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kylewm gRegorLove: I'm not an expert, but I think you're good ... mine reports RSA1 on Path #2 as well, but it says it's coming from "the trust store" which i don't think you have any control over, and sha^13.com is happy with it
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tantek.com edited /comments-presentation (+187) "/* Tantek */ experiments with incorporating comments into a post" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I think it's a locally cached version of the intermediate cert. Reading up more here https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=473105
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tantek KartikPrabhu: could you add your manual comments copying examples to a section for yourself in here: https://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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gRegorLove kylewm: Do you get any TLS warning visiting my site?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: specifically here: https://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#Manually_Display
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kylewm gRegorLove: nope, all good
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gRegorLove Good. I wonder how many Windows users have the Startcom intermediate cert cached, though.
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kartikprabhu.com edited /comments-presentation (+216) "/* Manually Display */ add me" (view diff)
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kylewm worked in Chrome and IE too (which don't share a cert store with Firefox afaik)
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gRegorLove Cool, thanks.
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gRegorLove If I understand correctly, Startcom's sha1 and sha2 intermediate both used the same fingerprint, and if you visited a site that had an incomplete cert chain, the sha1 was probably cached in Windows. Seems to be the case with me.
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gRegorLove And that sha1 intermediate is valid through 2017
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gRegorLove Frustrating
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@t @kevinmarks @grorgwork +1 <style scoped> — strong #indieweb use-case: custom post style: http://tantek.com/2015/185/t1/coded-per-post-styling-style-scoped (ttk.me t4c51) (twitter.com/_/status/619293310549626881)
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tantek.com edited /app (+149) "/* The problem with apps */ deep linking in apps sucks too, with citation of course" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /feedly (+138) "issues, Fails To Handle Atom XHTML titles" (view diff)
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KevinMarks is learning subtle things about CSS selectors