#indiewebcamp 2015-07-10

2015-07-10 UTC
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KevinMarks also that I am going to have to add lots of IDs to make this work
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tantek huh - you shouldn’t have to
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tantek though we can do CSS Q&A in #indiechat if you like
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@RiccardoE Grazie per il link! Casual info in a bottle: Ha ancora senso avere un blog? Forse sì: Pingback, Webmentions e VRM http://www.dagoneye.it/blog/2015/07/06/ha-ancora-senso-avere-un-blog-forse-si-pingback-webmentions-e-vrm/ (twitter.com/_/status/619304020348411904)
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aaronpk oops forgot to hashtag this #indieweb
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/619334657331441664
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@aaronpk Started experimenting with the @FlashAirDev card to replace my @EyeFiCard! Wrote up some notes: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/07/09/1/ (twitter.com/_/status/619334657331441664)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015 (-366) "two locations" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015 (-3) "/* Participating */ use our etherpad" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015 (-1) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme so... in theory, sending salmentions is up an running now
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aaronpk whoa nice!
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aaronpk still has some more to go for his role, but plans to hack on that this weekend!
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to test it, and to test person-tagging when uploading a photo
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ben_thatmustbeme but shouldn't be too bad
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ben_thatmustbeme if those work, i should be set for my side
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aaronpk i'm kind of curious who out of the guest list has registered their domains the longest
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aaronpk ago
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aaronpk so far gibberish.com wins at 1996
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+413) "/* Technologies */ marginalia" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+1837) "/* Participating */ add registrations from ti.to tickets" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (-64) "/* Participating */ update counts" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+381) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+268) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme :/ don't think I'll be online Saturday
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ben_thatmustbeme But certainly will be on Sunday
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: WHOA just got a push notification
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aaronpk "ben.thatmustbe.me tagged you in a post"
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ben_thatmustbeme Good that bout works
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ben_thatmustbeme That was done from mobilepub too
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aaronpk nice
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ben_thatmustbeme I just input urls for category
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Schedule (+0) "/* Saturday 2015-07-11 */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme What are you using for push notifications?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you using for push notifications" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+using+for+push+notifications&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-09%2Fline%2F1436501846667
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aaronpk what is Prowl?
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Loqi Prowl is an app and a service that allows you to send push notifications to your iOS devices https://indiewebcamp.com/Prowl
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bret aaronpk: what/where was that reference to db-less token endpoints agian?
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aaronpk https://tokens.indieauth.com describes it i think
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aaronpk oh no, it links to "creating your own token endpoint" at the bottom
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/token-endpoint#Self-Encoded_Tokens
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bret rad ty
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aaronpk just sent an email to everyone about indiewebcamp tomorrow!
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aaronpk first time i've done that, hopefully it's useful!
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aaronpk some people didn't put in their email address, ahem bret
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bret woops!
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bret wait where should I put it?
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aaronpk it was part of the ti.to registration
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aaronpk i just sent it to you anyway
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bret oh, i just registered on the wiki
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aaronpk ah i must have copied it to ti.to then and forgot to add your email
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aaronpk good night!
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Loqi night
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KevinMarks updated microformats/schema thingy, no longer using schema.org code and css: http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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KevinMarks (I ended up using the hidden radio button trick as couldn't get inline links to not scroll wrongly)
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KevinMarks this was good earlier: http://www.somethingsimilar.com/2013/01/14/notes-on-distributed-systems-for-young-bloods/#Extract%20services
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ti.gt edited /custom_post_style (+73) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+506) "/* Remote Participants */ add me" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /2015/Brighton (+531) "/* Remote Attending */" (view diff)
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csarven http://cube-drone.com/comics/c/relentless-persistence
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp from Portland!
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tantek aaronpk re: oldest domain - I do have a domain registered from 1995 but that was for my first startup. Would be interesting to see distribution by decade. 90s, 00s, 10s
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tantek aaronpk++ for that superb overview email. goodness you make email look good. HTML email at that.
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Loqi aaronpk has 874 karma
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tantek overview email for IndieWebCamp 2015 that is
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csarven tantek aaronpk HTML email? I have that covered: http://csarven.ca/my-responses-are-in-white
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csarven HTMLEmail--
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Loqi HTMLEmail has -1 karma
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tantek haha csarven usually I agree. his was very minimally styled.
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csarven I regret the title of that article. It should be singular.
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tantek csarven - can you change it? or are you referring to its /slug
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tantek ?
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csarven I can change it but rather not. It is the canonical URL.
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tantek ah - on that topic (so to speak) http://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design#Topic
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tantek goes back to reviewing https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-created
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@gdfederici Ha ancora senso avere un blog? Forse sì: Pingback, Webmentions e VRM http://www.dagoneye.it/blog/2015/07/06/ha-ancora-senso-avere-un-blog-forse-si-pingback-webmentions-e-vrm/ via @dagoneye (twitter.com/_/status/619415102182293504)
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tantek.com moved /community-brainstorming to /gov-uk-community-development-framework "name the page what it's really about rather than a more generic topic no one is expanding"
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+139) "/* Community Resources */ URL design" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /unfollow (+204) "/* Silo Examples */ unfollow a post" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+203) "/* Community Resources */ file-storage, unfollow" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+70) "/* Technologies */ food" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+615) "resources: FreeMyOAuth, onboarding, wikifying. cluster post types in Tech section, add edit" (view diff)
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tantek and with that I’ve completed my review of https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-created and curation into most relevant / impactful / useful resources from there to: Technologies, Services, and Community Resources
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tantek in https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#Technologies
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tantek if you see something in /2014-created that is missing from /2014-review and you feel it was either an oversight, or feel it’s significant enough to merit inclusion, please bring up!
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tantek !tell aaronpk could you post an indie event for the Friday pre-party?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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csarven tantek I don't see how dates in topic apply to my case in the URL you've pointed. Care you elaborate?
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tantek see the Also: section specifically about Make the slug optional
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@kevinmarks Web design is dead http://mashable.com/2015/07/06/why-web-design-dead/ - for 'dead' read 'solved' #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/619431885270159361)
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csarven I'm content with my URL design pattern. Cool URI/Ls are always difficult. I don't see how date only URLs or slug's with URLs are preferable in my case.
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tantek KevinMarks: perhaps it’s mashable’s bootstrap-like design sprinkled with NASCAR chicklets and other js;dr that’s looking dead?
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@Dennisimo @paulrobertlloyd I'll draw it on special for #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/619435880856612864)
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@citizenmatt Hmm. Can't log in to StackOverflow via @Indie_Auth. Getting a "message signature is incorrect" error. Anyone else seeing this? (twitter.com/_/status/619437118222434304)
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seekr Hi, I just discovered the IndieWebCamp project, this IRC channel and the news about this weekend's events, including a couple notes from guys who were offering to help set up something on the U.S. east coast - wondering whether they happen to be in this channel (though I should try back in several hours, since the sun's just come up here)
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tantek welcome seekr!
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tantek yes - various stages of sleep
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tantek feel free to ask any indieweb related questions and likely someone will get to them
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seekr thanks, tantek!
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seekr I'm looking at https://indiewebcamp.com/2015 and am not seeing much in the way of a conference agenda
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seekr I'm also wondering whether there will be video feeds of sessions.
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seekr I just learned of IndieWebCamp following an inquiry I made in another channel about what's happening with Diaspora and/or other Facebook alternatives. I'm wondering whether there are active ongoing efforts along such lines, tantek.
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rhiaro Hey seekr. The agendas for this weekend's events are set on the day, unconference style
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rhiaro I *think* there will be live feeds from both Portland and Brighton
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seekr oh, rhiaro - thanks - will be linked from that same URL, I s'pose
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seekr I hope so.
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rhiaro Yes, everything goes on the wiki
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seekr gotcha
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rhiaro And wrt to alternative social: everyone here is building their own stuff - scratching their own itches - to do social interactions via their own personal sites
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rhiaro There are a few common protocols and principals that allow us to interoperate with each other and centralised social sites, to varying degrees
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seekr ah - I found some articles, e.g. http://www.interhacktives.com/2014/12/28/alternatives-to-facebook/ that I'm finding helpful
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rhiaro What is micropub?
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
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rhiaro ^ you can ask the bot about stuff
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rhiaro What is webmention
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seekr hmmm - interesting
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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seekr Is there bot command help?
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rhiaro I'm not sure.. Loqi works in mysterious ways :)
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Loqi woot!
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seekr And is there a page linking to the sorts of goodies you're listing here?
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rhiaro It's just pulled from the wiki, anyway
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rhiaro What is getting started
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Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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rhiaro ^
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seekr ah - good - thanks - will do!
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rhiaro I hope that helps for now!
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seekr It does - will scrutinise carefully - thanks much, rhiaro (and Loqi)!
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Loqi you're welcome
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (-200) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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GWG Morning, all
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seekr g'mornin', GWG
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (-104) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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GWG seekr: Where on the East Coast?
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seekr Boston, GWG
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GWG seekr: We have had an event in Cambridge the last two years
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seekr ah - I'm actually closer to Cambridge than to Boston (10 min bike ride vs. 20 min)
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seekr anything planned in Cambridge this year?
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GWG seekr: It was this year. In March.
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seekr oh :-\
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seekr I just discovered IndieWeb today.
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cweiske s/seekr/findr/
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seekr :) cweiske
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seekr Seems I'll have to wait until tomorrow to know what's happening, and whether there will be video feeds.
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seekr I'm particularly interested in alternatives to corporate-controlled social media.
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seekr Maybe there are materials laying around in webspace from previous events, and links to projects along such lines?
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rhiaro seekr: there are indeed, on the wiki. There are links to past events on the events page
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rhiaro Very tentatively, there might be an IWC in Cambridge towards the end of this year. Keep an eye out
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ben_thatmustbeme seekr: I'm down in Attleboro, but work in Back Bay
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure there will be more events. I don't know about another this year
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ben_thatmustbeme unless you want to plan it
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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seekr rhiaro & ben_thatmustbeme - thanks for the info
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ben_thatmustbeme WOAH
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ben_thatmustbeme http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/would-micropub-chaining-work-with-silo-shims-too
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ben_thatmustbeme that reply did NOT come out right
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GWG seekr: ben_thatmustbeme organized the last Cambridge event. He's a good contact for Boston-area.
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GWG I'm down in NYC myself.
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seekr good to know, GWG - thanks
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GWG Trying to get an event down here again
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seekr I'd be happy if I can somehow tune in to at least some of what's happening this coming weekend.
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GWG seekr: Me too.
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seekr ah - so we'll know when we know, I guess
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rhiaro If nobody else is checking up on a live stream in Brighton I'll do it
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rhiaro I hear there is equipment
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seekr most kind of you, rhiaro!
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rhiaro If you don't mind getting up early to join us in BST :)
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seekr will there be parallel sessions, a single track, bofs and/or what? I don't see any details in the wiki.
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rhiaro Parallel to start, then breakout groups
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rhiaro I mean, single to start
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seekr np, rhiaro - I'm presently sorta in that mode anyway - been awake for ~six hours already now :)
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rhiaro Usually groups take notes on etherpad so you can follow if there's no camera
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rhiaro And should be lots of irc and twitter activity
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seekr good - and the wiki is the comms mechanism for announcing all such things?
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GWG aaronpk did a full stream in Cambridge last year.
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GWG seekr: And in here
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seekr has a hash tag been invented yet for the conf as a whole?
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rhiaro #indiewebcamp :)
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rhiaro Links to session docs will be added to wiki event pages
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seekr ah - natch! (too obvious for me :) )
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seekr Are there archival records of past confs online now?
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rhiaro And loqi reports wiki updates and tweets with the hashtag in here!
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Loqi who, me?
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rhiaro Most past event pages should have links to notes, yeah
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rhiaro Should be discoverable from homepage
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seekr i'll look
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rhiaro I'm on my phone, so not handy to grab a link right now
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seekr ok - I'll continue to lurk in this channel, so if you find anything later and can pass it along, I'll get it - tia
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ben_thatmustbeme Seekr don't need to lurk. Any questions, ask away
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seekr well, ben_thatmustbeme, my main question is whether there's a page that has links to records from past conferences and events or just projects associated with IndieWeb
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk Did you get a second webmention for that person tag? When kevin commented
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro What is projects
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Loqi These are projects you can use to get your site on the IndieWeb and improve your IndieWeb support https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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ben_thatmustbeme Seekr. Indeed. I'm on my phone so it may take me a second but every past IWC has data on it. Some have Videos some just notes
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rhiaro What is 2014
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/2014
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seekr as I said earlier, my main interest at present is finding good alternatives to corporate-controlled social media systems like Faceboo, and Twitter (interesting, though, to note that the latter is being used as a communications vehicle for the weekend's events, which I suppose means there is at present no good alternative)
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seekr rhanks rhiaro & Loqi - looking...
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ben_thatmustbeme Known is a good Upton if you are looking for something well polished
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ben_thatmustbeme Option*
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rhiaro seekr, many of us post to our own sites then use Twitter for wider distributing - see POSSE
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ben_thatmustbeme What is IWC
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rhiaro And iwc events are also to help new people get started, so twitter is good for reaching them
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indiewebcamp.com/IWC
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ben_thatmustbeme There you are seekr
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seekr ah - thanks for all the good info! The 2014 page is quite interesting in that it depicts (with maybe one or two exceptions :) what look like ordinary (yet extraordinary in many ways in actual fact, I'm sure) normal people.
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seekr ben_thatmustbeme: You wrote "Known is a good option if you are looking for something well polished." Dare I ask "what is "known?" The sentence makes it sound as if it's a software package or something. Please forgive the newbie confusion.
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@CgXIX RT @kevinmarks: Web design is dead http://mashable.com/2015/07/06/why-web-design-dead/ - for 'dead' read 'solved' #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/619495541311827968)
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@JM_XIX RT @kevinmarks: Web design is dead http://mashable.com/2015/07/06/why-web-design-dead/ - for 'dead' read 'solved' #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/619495810678583296)
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seekr As I mentioned earlier, I found an article (based on a non-evilGoogle search on "alternative to Facebook") at http://www.interhacktives.com/2014/12/28/alternatives-to-facebook/ that lists a number of potential alternatives. I'm wondering whether any of those have been adopted by some substantial number of IndieWebers.
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rhiaro What is known
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GWG What is Known?
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rhiaro :)
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Loqi Known is an open publishing / community platform project https://indiewebcamp.com/Known
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Loqi Known is an open publishing / community platform project https://indiewebcamp.com/Known
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GWG seekr: Ask, and ye shall receive
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seekr ah - that's what I expected - gotta learn how to talk to Loqi, I guess.
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seekr much obliged, GWG
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rhiaro You should always date to ask 'what is' questions
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rhiaro Dare
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Loqi definitely
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seekr any special slash syntax for getting Loqi's attention?
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rhiaro You can use !tell to leave messages for people
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rhiaro Otherwise it's mostly leaning key phrases
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GWG What is love?
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GWG Hmm...thought we had that one.
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM https://indiewebcamp.com/love
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GWG Never mind. Just delayed reaction
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rhiaro What is the answer
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Loqi answer is a post type that is a reply to a question post; it's not clear whether answer needs to be its own post type, or if simple reply posts will suffice, thus if you're implementing answer posts, just start with implementing replies https://indiewebcamp.com/answer
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rhiaro What is 42
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Loqi The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything is … 42 https://indiewebcamp.com/42
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seekr What is truth?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "truth" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=truth&summary=prompted+by+seekr+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-10%2Fline%2F1436534559643
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rhiaro Okay, enough of this :p
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GWG rhiaro: Agreed
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@nitot @Le_PAH j'adore @withknown parce que c'est avec une approche @indiewebcamp , mais je n'ai pas essayé Ghost. (twitter.com/_/status/619499922145046528)
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ben_thatmustbeme seekr: what is <anything> basically just does a look up on the wiki for that term. (following redirects) and returns the defitiion from them. so ask away, its not a bad habit to get in to
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seekr ah - thanks - might be boring for other people in the channel, though
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seekr ben_thatmustbeme: ^^
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bret whoa hey github.. not loading repos very reliably
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snarfed bret: yup: https://status.github.com/
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bret a moment ago it was a small subset of repos
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bret err :airquotes"
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bret :
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ben_thatmustbeme seekr, we can live with it
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Loqi [mention] http://www.pearltrees.com/msecc/outils/id11916550/item150239081 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] Tino Kremer commented 'I guess that's because they do not have to do anything. Just adding another 'archiving' service is just an addon to the existing system with...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://stream.tinokremer.nl/2015/i-guess-thats-because-they-do-not-have-to-do)
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@davidpeach1 Really gutted I can't make the @IndieWebCamp this weekend. I will be looking forward to hearing about all th... http://davidpea.ch/notes/938 (twitter.com/_/status/619523616888221696)
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bret is there a good explanation for the "Bearer " prefix in the Authorization header? http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6750#section-2
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Guest_List (-193) "un-rsvp" (view diff)
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aaronpk bret: yes it's a "bearer token"
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 23 minutes ago: could you post an indie event for the Friday pre-party? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10/line/1436518719725
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 15 minutes ago: Did you get a second webmention for that person tag? When kevin commented http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10/line/1436533601613
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aaronpk you found the RFC for bearer tokens it looks like
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aaronpk it just beans the bearer of the token can use it without any other sort of verification
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aaronpk s/beans/means/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: it just means the bearer of the token can use it without any other sort of verification
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bret aaronpk: yeah, just trying to understand to what extend I should validate the string
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aaronpk you should only accept the token if the authorization header starts with "Bearer "
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Loqi yea!
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ben_thatmustbeme thinks "access is in the eye of the token holder"
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: I did get anothoer webmention from you last night, but my site isn't parsing the replies on it yet
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aaronpk that's next up :)
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ben_thatmustbeme oh good, that means the salmention worked!
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@almereyda @digitalcourage No Facebook: Neben den Federated Tools gibt's auch http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE @withknown ein funkt Beisp als Alt. zu @hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/619528136775086080)
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm ready for my part of SWAT0, i think
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aaronpk sweet!
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aaronpk that was faster than expected!
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ben_thatmustbeme i was almost there
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aaronpk i doubt i'm going to have any time today to work on it, so hopefully can finish on sunday!
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aaronpk omg these new push notifications are the best
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek what are push notifications?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "push notifications" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=push+notifications&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-10%2Fline%2F1436543904546
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acegiak morning, tantek!
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Loqi acegiak: tantek left you a message 1 day, 1 hour ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-08/line/1436409419389 “forward” appears to be open to easy misinterpretation [1] in the context of salmentions, and thus we probably shouldn’t use the term to describe what is happening. [1] http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436450175162 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436453253710
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aaronpk push notifications are [[notifications]]
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loqi.me created /push_notifications (+28) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10/line/1436543904546 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronparecki.com edited /push_notifications (-3) "Redirected page to [[notification]]" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - not quite - “notifications” now just means a page of stuff that you poll
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aaronpk i spoze so
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tantek ever since everyone started to rename “recent activity” to “notifications"
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tantek.com edited /push_notifications (+19) "redirect to push subhead for now" (view diff)
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tantek hmm that seems to merit a definition
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, i believe i am fully set for my part of SWAT0 initial test
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tantek wiki-snipes himself
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ben_thatmustbeme what is tanteking?
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Loqi Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
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tantek.com created /push_notification (+1794) "start from content in notification, dfn, see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Prowl (+24) "see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Pushover (+56) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /notification () "(-776) /* Push Notifications */ link to a main page on the subject, summarize the content here accordingly" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /push_notifications (-14) "r to singular" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: I am trying to propose link previews in WordPress now. Something that I try has to bear fruit.
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acegiak GWG: well good luck :)
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tantek GWG, your persistence is admirable :)
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GWG But futile?
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sebbers whats futile?
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (+27) "/* IndieWebCamp Edinburgh 2015 */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme sebbers: resistance
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sebbers i thought you meant a dry dick and a vagina
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sebbers what did the dd say to the v?
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tantek sebbers - not really a channel for that kind of humor - want to take a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct to see if that suits you or not?
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sebbers sorry
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sebbers wont do it again
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bret hey sebbers welcome :) no worries about the joke, just keep it in line with the coc
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bret did you hear about the channel due to the conference this weekend?
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sebbers yep
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seekr bret: whereas I learned about the channel in another channel whose subject matter has nothing to do with software or web matters - I'm looking forward to getting more info about tuning in to the conference whilst it's in progress and seeing the agenda, which I'm told won't be published until tomorrow morning
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seekr It was only after joining the channel that I learned of this coming weekend's events
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bret seekr: yeah its an unconference style, so we put up a grid and propose sessions
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seekr ah - when will the in-process grid become publicly visible?
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bret usually someone will drop a link in IRC fairly quicky
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bret quickly*
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bret and then it ends up on the wiki
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seekr gotcha - thanks
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bret if the internet is working well, we usually drop talky.io links of sessions into the channel as well
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seekr hmmm - don't know about that technology - will have to research it, I guess
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bret its cool! it uses webRTC for plugin-less video chat
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bret works on chrome and firefox
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bret safari is a punk and isn't supporting it yet
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seekr nice - I'll find the FF plugin, then
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seekr I avoid chrome due to fearing and disliking google
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bret seekr, and sebbers, if you haven't yet there are some getting started link on http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started if you are interested in learning more!
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bret seekr: no need for a plugin
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sebbers just tell me what to build
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sebbers and ill be happy
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seekr thanks, bret - I began reading that item earlier today and got distracted by something else - I'm on the talky site now and will learn about it
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bret whatever you want! but we'er going to encourage you to do it on your own site, try to interoperate, and don't practice http://indiewebcamp.com/architecture_astronomy ;)
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bret sebbers/seekr they are pretty broad but http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles is also a good place to get an idea of what we are all trying to work on
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seekr I don't see anything on the talky.io site that indicates a way to test it - will look at Principles also
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seekr oh - maybe there is - the "Talky beta" thing
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bret seekr: just put a room name in an press join
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bret send that link to person b
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bret and your chatting
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bret interesting UX, bear take note!
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seekr hmmm
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bear yea, beta.talky.io is what you want to use
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bear talky.io will be going away for good next week
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bear (well, the UI is)
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seekr bear: I'm there now - is the URL I see auto-generated and OK to use?
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bear yes
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seekr anyone want to test it with me?
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bear we suggest a random one, but you can override it
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bear seekr - sure
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bret paste it in
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seekr thanks - can I post the link here, or would it be better via pm?
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bret heres fine
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seekr ok - I don't have working video, so can only do audio
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seekr https://beta.talky.io/beside-a-broken-frog
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bret i have to be quiet people on the phone
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bret interesting
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seekr ok
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bret hi bear!
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bret Ê…Ê••á´¥•Ê”ʃ
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bear hello
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seekr what must I do to activate the chat?
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bret ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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bret can he join without video?
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bear just click on the "chat" part
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bear it needs a camera source
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bear we are working on audio only
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bret ohhh :[
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bret bbiab
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seekr I'm not hearing anything :(
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bear we both left
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seekr oh
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bear i'll rejoin now
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seekr thanks, bear
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bear what browser are you using?
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seekr firefox
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seekr Linux version 38.0.1
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bear and do you get past the "hair check" page?
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seekr don't know what that is
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seekr didn't see a "hair check"
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bear after you click "join room"
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bear it shows your camera image and a checkbox for audio ok?
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seekr I don't recall that prompt
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme: you have marked up the post as <div class="entry-content e-content:p-name">
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bear seekr - ok, you may have found an os/browser combo glitch
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bear i'll try to reproduce it
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seekr well, as I said, I don't have a working camera - but the software may still see the camera as being present
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KevinMarks so it's being parsed as a 'content:p-name" element, and thus getting an implied name
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bear k, let me try to repro that in a bit - thanks
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KevinMarks http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fben.thatmustbe.me%2Fnote%2F2015%2F7%2F10%2F2%2F&html=&pretty=on
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tantek.com created /URN (+17) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks you probably typo'd a colon in your template
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seekr bear: I see a small thing on the screen showing the firefox logo and a white microphone to the right orange background
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme: not sure why the implied name is getting JS though
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seekr bear: I use the NoScript extension, and had to enable scripts from a few domains to get that control
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bear cool - i'm adding that to the bug report
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (-72) "/* To-do */" (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (-22) "/* Sponsors */" (view diff)
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seekr bear: If I click on the mic image, I get a popup that asks if I want to continue sharing the microphone
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seekr bear: are you still in talky?
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme: putting h-entry on the body is triggering that implied name, though possibly <script> shoudl be ignored by the parser
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seekr bear: I saw something on the talky site that seemed to suggest there's a limit of 5-6 simultaneously connected users - did I read it right do you think?
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KevinMarks seems like both python and php mf2 parsing implementations are seeing <script> as viable for implied name
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tantek KevinMarks - yes about script contents being ignored for display purposes, however I think you can also SGML comment them out
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KevinMarks this is a drawback of the mf2 class on body approach, it does tend to scoop up a lor
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seekr bear: looks like you've gone away for the time being, so I'll drop out of talky
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (+246) "/* Sponsors */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, woodwind gets the content OK though
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KevinMarks ah, that's because the homepage template has e-content correctly
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ben_thatmustbeme ack, is that name bit rearing its head again
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KevinMarks well, you did typo your template
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tantek huh? thought it was just a typo problem in the class name
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tantek the name bit just made it superobvious something was wrong ;)
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tantek helpful for debugging :D
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KevinMarks but that means the fallback is to scoop up all of the body in p-name. including header and footer
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@rhiaro @cygnoir Hello! @t suggested you might be interested in coming to IndieWebCamp Edinburgh, the last weekend in July: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/619559769112711168)
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tantek rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 115 karma
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KevinMarks wasn't that exactly the argument against :parent selectors in CSS?
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tantek Kevinmarks, but then again I may be biased as I’m currently letting a <style scoped> on one post on my home page cause nearly the whole body to look like a rainbow in buggy browsers ;)
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KevinMarks in this case 'buggy' is defined as 'all browsers except your employer's one' ?
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tantek KevinMarks - haven’t tried IE yet
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tantek wouldn’t surprise me if they at least respected the scope, if not apply it.
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tantek IE10 / Edge / Spartan have made surprising progress
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KevinMarks I keep getting followed on twitter by people whose tweets are all '[prime number] things to know about [fatberg] [hashtags of fatberg terms] "
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tantek how does one submit changes to “caniuse” ?
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sparverius microsoft did a whole campaign to that effect targeted at developers
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KevinMarks http://caniuse.com/feed/156
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tantek sparverius - having seen IE in action with some tough CSS during CSS working group meetings, it’s more than just a campaign
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sparverius "it's not shit anymore and our dev tools are pretty decent, stop on by" i think they're worried that people are just not testing on IE that much anymore
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aaronpk KevinMarks++ now I wanna make a bot that does that
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Loqi KevinMarks has 127 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: thanks, fixed that typo now
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sparverius tantek: yeah i know, ive been using edge/spartan at work for the occasional testing; i dont like their dev tools as much as chrome but better than safari
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KevinMarks so if you resend the webmention, does Known fix it?
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ben_thatmustbeme good question
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rhiaro If anyone has a minute, can someone sanity check my webmention receiving pseudocode/steps? https://bitbucket.org/rhiaro/slogd/src/35188ba0d9294bb98e36174cf62bd32de1662fa7/html/webmention.php
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KevinMarks I don't have anything I can run IE on though
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ben_thatmustbeme needs to add an easy way to do that
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tantek sparverius - oh neat - can you answer a quick question then? do you see a rainbow background behind all posts, one post, or no posts on tantek.com ?
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KevinMarks well, not without setting up a VM on my mac, and I really can't be arsed
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sparverius i am not at work right now, but when i go in ill fire it up
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tantek thanks!
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sparverius but microsoft has a thing called remote ie if you can be assed to set it up
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sparverius (i couldnt)
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KevinMarks tantek: or, better, send a pull request https://github.com/Fyrd/caniuse/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: yes it does
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ben_thatmustbeme also 'X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett' what?
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tantek KevinMarks - I’m trying to figure out a way to ask for something to be noted as *broken* not just unimplemented, but not sure how to suggest it in a productive way
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme: it's a reference to his books on how dead network engineers were memorialised on the clacks
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KevinMarks I like it when you can repair other people's sites by fixing a typo on your own
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sparverius the clacks being the magical/victorian/parody version of telegraphs
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KevinMarks well, of internet in general
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sparverius yeah, it was his way of poking fun at the "hacker ethos"
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sparverius but like most things he poked fun at, in a nice way (unless they deserved it)
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KevinMarks Going Postal is a dark satire on business
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ben_thatmustbeme but why is it in the headers? random
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aaronpk rhiaro++ for the outline
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Loqi rhiaro has 116 karma
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sparverius it's in the headers because a lot of people greatly enjoyed and were influenced by his work, myself included. and he once wrote that you can't be dead until people stop speaking your name.
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aaronpk i might have to follow that when i implement my new webmention receiving
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rhiaro Thanks aaronpk. Hopefully I'll implement it this weekend
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aaronpk me too
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme: because geeks decided to do it http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/
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aaronpk i'm going to try to implement some of the logic in a php library so that I can reuse the code on my new site
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rhiaro I was gonna just do a cron job to pull things from webmention.io, but I want to do salmentions so I think it's probably easier to do the whole lot myself
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rhiaro Thought I might end up with some kind of hybrid
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rhiaro Will see how it goes
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KevinMarks https://github.com/idno/Known/commit/abfff16b8570c6e8a2aae1c2f1f2737b767e28e6
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KevinMarks how could we make salmentions work with webmention.io and webmention.herokuapp.com ?
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rhiaro Does webmention.io de-dup for an update webmention?
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ben_thatmustbeme if it does then its really just a matter of comments including their comments
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KevinMarks right, but the comments are injected by js
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tantek could you do that js injection serverside?
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aaronpk that's what rhiaro was talking about, pulling webmentions from the webmention.io api
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KevinMarks right, *I* could, but it doesn't solve the static site case in general
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aaronpk pretty sure either service could implement receiving salmentions just fine
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tantek you mean how does a static site support salmentions? (say that 10 times quickly ;) )
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aaronpk nothing would have to change with the JS embed either
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KevinMarks the comments here: http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html for example wouldn't get passed back (assuming I send webmentions)
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tantek right, the sending part is harder to make work
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aaronpk oh right, for relaying salmentions
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tantek no no let’s not use relay or forward since that confuses people! ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme sending part is pretty easy too i think
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: but the static site won't have HTML that includes the comments
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KevinMarks except that if you parse the page you don't get the comments
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KevinMarks right
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sparverius tantek: my edge build is a few weeks out of date; im seeing rainbows
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aaronpk crazy thought... what if the static site linked to <a href="http://example.com/post/hljsfjlsjlsjet/comments" class="u-comment">view comments</a>
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sparverius http://i.imgur.com/CUXPIJk.png
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aaronpk most sites have a "comment" property of an h-entry which is an array of h-cites, but what if the comment property was a URL?
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sparverius tantek: http://i.imgur.com/CUXPIJk.png
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KevinMarks hm
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tantek ok so they’re doing the same buggy behavior as webkit/blink. sigh. ok I think I may resort to sending an email (gasp)
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tantek thanks sparverius
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ben_thatmustbeme as i read through that i had the same idea aaronpk, at least some way to get comments for the post
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KevinMarks may want to have a different property name as it is a colelction of comments
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aaronpk that'd be a sort of progressive enhancement for static sites, where the JS could still load them inline, but parsers would find the URL property, and nojs browsers would see the link
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KevinMarks right
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aaronpk different proeprty name? but normally it's also a collection of comments
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aaronpk basically the contents of the URL would be the same as what would be inline on the page if it could render serverside
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KevinMarks "u-remote-comments" or something
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aaronpk nonono, too many code paths
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sparverius tantek: np
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aaronpk with u-comment, receiving code would only have to add a bit that fetches the URL and then continues
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aaronpk continues with its normal comment processing that would have happened if the comments were inline
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ben_thatmustbeme u-comment will quickly get mistaken for u-url within a comment i worry
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KevinMarks same with u-remote-comments or whatever
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aaronpk mistaken how?
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KevinMarks this si the typed parsing problme again
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ben_thatmustbeme thinking u-comment is a url for each comment, which is actually supposed to be u-url within the comment
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aaronpk ahh
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ben_thatmustbeme u-comments-section
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ben_thatmustbeme something like that, to make sure its clear
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KevinMarks if I run it through an mf2 parser I then have to look at the comment elemtn adn sniff it to see if it's a URL
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aaronpk KevinMarks: you normally do anyway for a few properties
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KevinMarks I know,a nd it's already annoying as heck
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aaronpk if you aren't doing that, you will likely be throwing exceptions in your code
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tantek what in particular is “annoying as heck” kevinmarks?
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KevinMarks this is clearly a different type of object that needs differnt behaviour
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aaronpk i dunno, it's annoying, but it's also just as annoying as having to sanity-check user input in general
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KevinMarks so we should mark it out explicitly
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aaronpk tantek: the fact that a property like "in-reply-to" might be a string URL or an h-cite object
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tantek aaronpk - that’s solve with the new “value” rules for the mf2 parser
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tantek s/solve/solved
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk - that’s solved with the new “value” rules for the mf2 parser
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KevinMarks kinda
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aaronpk not really
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tantek hence we switched to “u-in-reply-to h-cite”
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aaronpk you still have two different cases to handle
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tantek so you could either just get the value of the u-in-reply-to (which would get you the u-url from the h-cite if any)
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aaronpk in-reply-to might still be a string, and if not, check if h-cite and get the value from the h-cite value
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tantek or if you wanted more info you could dig into the h-cite
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aaronpk which is definitely easier than getting the value from the url property of the h-cite
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tantek aaronpk - every URL “might still be a string"
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tantek that’s just generic sanity checking code
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aaronpk you mean every property?
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aaronpk yeah that's what I just said, it's like sanity-checking in general
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm...
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aaronpk but there are always two places that real data might exist
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tantek right, which you have to do with external input, whether from a user or another site!
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ben_thatmustbeme realizes he doesn't have any mf2 for his comments at all
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KevinMarks https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/blob/master/indiecard.html#L23
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tantek aaronpk - sorta - there used to be three I think?
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ben_thatmustbeme othar than h-cards for the authors
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aaronpk without the new "value" rules there are at least two places and it's dependent on vocab
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aaronpk with the new rules, there are two places that are not dependent on vocab
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aaronpk so that's good at least
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I just manually added these with markup - curious to see what you (or anyone) thinks of the markup / mf2 I ended up using: http://tantek.com/2015/190/b1/blinking-fever#blinking-fever-comments
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aaronpk btw how do we get that into the php parser? i want to use that
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tantek oh it doesn’t do it yet?
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aaronpk not that i am aware
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aaronpk i haven't written any of the php parser, it scares me
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tantek it’s been in the spec for a while (and resolved even longer)
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KevinMarks p/e handling is messy enough, making it p/e/u handling and then dreferencing the u and pulling more is worse
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tantek yup - over a month
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ben_thatmustbeme what do you lneed in the php parser?
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tantek aaronpk - step one, file a github issue on the phpmf2 parser to fix that
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aaronpk a month is not that long lol
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ben_thatmustbeme looks back
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tantek aaronpk, at our rate of iteration / evolution it is :)
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tantek reference this in the bug: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parse_an_element_for_class_microformats and specifically the lines nested under “* value:”
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ben_thatmustbeme was tempted to write a parser in C
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aaronpk i should probably get my hands dirty with the php parser at some point, but at the same time it's also nice that a fundamental building block is not built by me :P
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ben_thatmustbeme just do see if i could
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Loqi definitely
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tantek aaronpk - feel free to cc me and barnaby on the issue
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: me too
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tantek aaronpk - indeed, just file the github issue for now
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ben_thatmustbeme i may end up digging in to the parser again
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KevinMarks no-one has touched it since may...
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KevinMarks hm, 2 open pulls https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pulls
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KevinMarks I have merge rights but…
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tantek test cases?
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KevinMarks this one has them: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/67/files?w=1
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KevinMarks but someone running the code should probably take the merge
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KevinMarks I took kyle's one becsue that was clearly right; this one looks good to me too
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aaronpk i suppose i could do that much since it doesn't involve the actual inner workings of the parser
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KevinMarks the test case there shoudl have different title and link text
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Loqi [bridgy] Halsted M. Bernard replied '@rhiaro @t Hi! Yes, very interested. Thanks for the ping.' to a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/cygnoir/status/619563106482679810)
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tantek yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek sparverius: FYI I emailed the www-style list about style scoped, we’ll see what happens! http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jul/0120.html
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Loqi [mention] Amy Guy posted 'Webmention receipt and display This weekend at IndieWebCamp in Brighton, my main goal is to display received webmentions on my posts. Curr...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (http://rhiaro.co.uk//2015/07/webmention)
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@rhiaro I posted: Webmention receipt and display #indieweb http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/619572932071804928)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, got side tracked by those php-mf2 comments, that looks pretty logical p-comment h-cite
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ben_thatmustbeme oops he left
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KevinMarks so, continuing this brainstorm on comments on static sites
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KevinMarks I add a link with "u-comments-section" that points to a page that has html rendered comments
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KevinMarks which I can make from https://webmention.herokuapp.com/user/sites/kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks or fork the app to generate them directly
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Loqi [bridgy] just a guy replied '@cygnoir Great! Hopefully all the info you need is on the wiki, but if you have any questions just give me a shout :)' to a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/619573430577430528)
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KevinMarks at the moment it egnerates them via script: https://webmention.herokuapp.com/api/embed?version=cutting-edge&url=www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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KevinMarks but it could generate them as html, then you could iframe them and they'd work in a noscript environment
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KevinMarks does a u- tag work on an iframe?
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KevinMarks hm
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KevinMarks maybe I'm overthinking this, but this fits in with the hovercard brainstorming
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KevinMarks if the hovercards are iframes, a u- on an iframe could mean "pull in this remote URL and insert it's parsed microformats inline"
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KevinMarks maybe that is something other than a u- directive
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kylewm I was playing with PhantomJS this morning, so now that's my golden hammer
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kylewm so we can just fetch kevinmarks.com with phantomjs :)
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KevinMarks how does that work?
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KevinMarks I'm thinking about how to transclude a remote page, and realising that that is what iframe does
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KevinMarks irony: the embedded tweets in my post have good mf2 html in the iframe, but there is no way to get access to that URL
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kylewm oh phantom would just run the webmention.herokuapp.com script and give you the full realized page
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KevinMarks would it get at the iframes that benward has embedded too?
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kylewm no clue about iframes
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@jgarber IndieWebCamp is this weekend in Brighton, UK and Portland, OR. Not in either of those places? Participate online! http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (twitter.com/_/status/619584315245129728)
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KevinMarks received wisdom summary: http://blog.venanti.us/web-app-2015/
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@jgarber Any Web folk in the Richmond area want to get together and hack on some #indieweb stuff tomorrow? #rva (twitter.com/_/status/619586780791226368)
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Loqi [bridgy] MatchBags favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/jgarber/status/619584315245129728)
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@andybudd RT @jgarber: IndieWebCamp is this weekend in Brighton, UK and Portland, OR. Not in either of those places? Participate online! http://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/619592582876786688)
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loqi.me created /RDF (+80) "prompted by KevinMarks and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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@hardfire i just found out about indieweb, would’ve loved to joined the camp tomorrow if i knew months back :/ maybe next year! (twitter.com/_/status/619596295645302785)
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hardfire i just found out about indiewebcamp today, would've loved to join the camp. maybe next year :D
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ben_thatmustbeme hardfire: not anywhere near them i take it
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ben_thatmustbeme there are others throughout the year as well
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hardfire ah! thats nice. i'll keep an eye and be around on IRC atleast
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ben_thatmustbeme hardfire: where are you located?
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hardfire as of now in germany
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aaronpk I bet there will be another one in Germany next year! I had a great time in Düsseldorf in May
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hardfire okay. i hope i am in germany untill then. but as there are number of events, it'd be nice to be in one of them
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ben_thatmustbeme there are a couple coming up in English
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ben_thatmustbeme s/English/England
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: there are a couple coming up in England
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aaronpk well one is tomorrow. the other is in a couple weeks tho!
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hardfire exactly !
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ben_thatmustbeme thats like a nothing commute :)
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ben_thatmustbeme https://youtu.be/VdP0JXZpbx0?t=234
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ben_thatmustbeme actually about 4:38
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hardfire haha! that was the predictable hardfire talking :P
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Loqi [bridgy] Andy Budd retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/andybudd/status/619592582876786688)
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KevinMarks2 the one in a couple of weeks is not in England
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KevinMarks2 it's in Scotland
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@healthbankcoop . @EricTopol on democratization of medicine, @healthbankcoop. http://www.vascularthinktank.com/#!Exclusive-Interview-Dr-Eric-Topol-on-the-Democratization-of-Medicine/c193z/559feb620cf2ba155ecd018d via @marcelsalathe #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/healthbankcoop/status/619600960286011393/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/619600960286011393)
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@WiredSussex RT @jgarber: IndieWebCamp is this weekend in Brighton, UK and Portland, OR. Not in either of those places? Participate online! http://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/619601228134285313)
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ben_thatmustbeme Sorry KevinMarks2, i stand corrected
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aaronpk oops haha geography is hard
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ben_thatmustbeme starts singing the animaniacs 'nations of the world' to himself
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KevinMarks2 http://qntm.org/uk
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KevinMarks2 express that in turtle
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KevinMarks2 except don't
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@Pam_A_Davis RT @LukasRosenstock: Get an #IndieWeb-compatible personal website running in seconds with @Docker, @AppDotNet and #phpADNSite: http://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/619604665588543488)
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KevinMarks gillmor gang time
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@Rob_work RT @jgarber: IndieWebCamp is this weekend in Brighton, UK and Portland, OR. Not in either of those places? Participate online! http://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/619608020805394433)
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Loqi [bridgy] WiredSussex retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/WiredSussex/status/619601228134285313)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rob Englebright retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/Rob_work/status/619608020805394433)
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Loqi [bridgy] Romy Viflic favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/jgarber/status/619584315245129728)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rob Englebright favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 (https://twitter.com/jgarber/status/619584315245129728)
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tyson.vanoverhill.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+89) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Looking forward to IndieFoodTruckCamp this weekend!
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aaronpk carts
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aaronpk they are called carts in portland :P
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sparverius are they carts or actual trucks
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gRegorLove Think that needs an "actually..." and a pushing up of glasses. ;)
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sparverius food carts are cool, sf doesnt have very many though
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aaronpk they are mostly trucks but they are more permanent installations
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aaronpk they legally have to be able to move, but very few of them ever do
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KevinMarks food trailer parks
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@jgraham909 Portland folks: IndieWebCamp is this weekend. It looks like a few spots still left. https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/619621923924762624)
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gregorlove.com edited /WebID (+122) "expand using kylewm's summary. +Examples +See Also" (view diff)
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kylewm IDK if "browser SSL certificate" is the right word for those :/
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gRegorLove client certificate?
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gRegorLove The spec doesn't seem to mention it or the signature, so not sure.
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gRegorLove Not going to spend a lot of time on understanding it. :)
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kylewm good choice
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gRegorLove So all of my URLs are about to be changed. Not sure how to avoid bridgy sending duplicate wms. My de-dupe process is basically md5 ( source + target )
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gRegorLove If A is redirected to B, will bridgy re-send the webmentions to B?
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KevinMarks so you need to handle the dedupe
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tantek you’ll get to test everyone’s webmention / redirects interaction support
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aaronpk i'm gonna do the same thing soon, take notes!
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tantek this is one of those “architecture” things ;)
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gRegorLove Will do. Was looking for input from snarfed or kylewm
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gRegorLove I *think* if I update my md5 hashes when I import my old wm, it will work.
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KevinMarks you should keep both hashes
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Loqi yea
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KevinMarks see http://www.somethingsimilar.com/2013/01/14/notes-on-distributed-systems-for-young-bloods/#Feature%20flags
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gRegorLove My code uses the final URL for the hash, so if source sends to B and B redirects to C, md5 ( source + C ) is the result. wm to the old URL and the new should properly de-dupe
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KevinMarks right, what I'm saying is, keep the old hashes too
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gRegorLove But yeah, maybe I'll update my code to keep both hashes as a double check
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KevinMarks calculate both hashes
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KevinMarks check it's doing what you expect
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KevinMarks then you can later turn off the other part
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KevinMarks that 'feature flags' bit is a really important insight
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gRegorLove Yeah, I follow. Was trying to avoid updating my webmention handler. :)
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aaronpk just pushed the updates to php-mf2 btw
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gRegorLove Ooh
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KevinMarks http://imgur.com/hjxxOl8
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KevinMarks misses social graph API
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tantek kylewm - did you see the updates to /SWAT0 ?
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tantek we’re thinking you might be closest to having everything implemented to be “C” : http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements
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kylewm awesome, no I hadn't seen that
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme has most of A working. And aaronpk has most of B working.
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tantek You’re our leading candidate to play C.
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KevinMarks hm, anyone using woodwind wiht known is C I think
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kylewm I think so too, anyone wiht woodwind+micropub
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kylewm or monocle + micropub for that matter
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tantek KevinMarks: sure, it’s just more powerful if the *creator* of woodwind is doing it :)
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KevinMarks woodwind+micropub+webmention
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tantek kylewm: yup, aaronpk pointed that out too - but the goal is to have a different person do each role
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kylewm woohoo
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KevinMarks so C just has to comment
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aaronpk comment from the same interface they saw the post
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tantek exactly - from same integrated interface
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aaronpk oh man I forgot I made a script last year that parses the guest list microformats and creates name badges
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snarfed gRegorLove: re bridgy and redirects, you should be fine. it won't resend past wms just because permalinks start redirecting
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gRegorLove snarfed: What about my h-feed of notes?
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snarfed gRegorLove: …what about it…?
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kylewm will bridgy refetch the h-feed, see a bunch of new URL -> Syndication relations, and resend a bunch of wm's with the new target URLs
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gRegorLove Those are largely PPD, so when bridgy refreshes the feed it will see new permalinks
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ben_thatmustbeme Tantek.. I need to review but I think I have ALL of A working
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gRegorLove I'm pretty sure my hash updates I'm working on will de-dupe them regardless. Just curious.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ !!!
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snarfed gRegorLove: ah, good question. i believe that only happens if it didn't find a target before, but i'm not sure. kylewm will know...
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 91 karma
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gRegorLove Less concerned about my articles because I almost always manually post links to them on FB / Twitter, no PPD.
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kylewm gRegorLove: snarfed: I *think* it will send them again with new target URLs
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snarfed doh! i defer to kylewm :P
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gRegorLove We'll find out soon :)
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snarfed sounds like the de-duping will hopefully work. de-duping on uid or u-url should also work
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gRegorLove soon meaning, this weekend
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werd.io edited /2015/Guest_List (+0) "With regret - Ben (werd.io) is in no fit state to travel but will attend remotely" (view diff)
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aaronpk :(
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tantek :(
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KevinMarks aaronpk: heh, that's like my reaction each year when I remember xmaslabels.com
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tantek kylewm - were you able to coordinate with KevinMarks, snarfed, on a SF/bayarea spot for “dialing in” to the Talky together?
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tantek for this weekend?
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tantek seems like at least a few of you could cluster this weekend and make an informal SF meetup spot!
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KevinMarks haven't yet; need to co-ordinate with family as my sons and a niece are staying with us
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KevinMarks so liekly stuff going on
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kylewm I definitely cannot participate tomorrow, but should be in for Sunday. thanks for the prod, will check with Ben, snarfed, Kevin
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tantek definitely - Sunday hackday meetup would be great - because then you could demo together too!
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snarfed damn, i'm only free tomorrow
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tantek kylewm: as soon as you have *something* (anything, even just 2 of you) confirmed for a Sunday thing, let’s add it to the wiki
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snarfed ah well. i'll be in and out of irc at least!
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gRegorLove Time to pack and get ready to leave for PDX in an hour! See some of you tomorrow.
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kylewm safe travels gRegorLove
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snarfed i can also pre-announce a demo: granary is now installable via pip - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/granary - and the new demo site is up - https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
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snarfed the old *-activitystreams demo sites now redirect
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aaronpk ooo
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KevinMarks grr. appengine is telling me to update old apps that don't use the deprecated store
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snarfed heh yes. been 2y, 3y coming? :P
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KevinMarks right, but I have apps that don't touch it at all, and they're still nuking them
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snarfed yeah that part is unfortunate
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snarfed easy to redeploy though
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KevinMarks that assumes I still have source…
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KevinMarks ;)
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KevinMarks granary's html is amusing as it doesn't put any constraints on image size
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KevinMarks so twitter is gigantic faces
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snarfed ah yeah that's a good point about the demo, that iframe should always show text
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snarfed anyone know if there's an easy way to make an iframe always render as text, regardless of the response's content type?
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KevinMarks I like the rendered html though
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snarfed lol
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snarfed easy to open in a separate tab
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aaronpk heading to Pints for the PDX pre-party!
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snarfed enjoy!
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KevinMarks it's fun 'cos it turns twitter into this image heavy thing
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KevinMarks GET https://granary-demo.appspot.com/twitter/@me/@all/@app/?format=html&access_token_key=57203-qDXdqY0xFE62dCEH38OpuRR7zHgrnGbChb4bJn5dfqrJ&access_token_secret=MnSg8aeOxODUoaaSYg8BUfen2BXwX0rkD1r9zQXDJPvHS
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snarfed oops, access tokens
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snarfed should be read only though so relatively harmless
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KevinMarks you can see who has uplaoded giant profile pix
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snarfed heh true
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snarfed bbi5
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benwerd Replying to the earlier conversation: I was going to drive to PDX today but I'm just feeling too rotten to do it (I'd hoped I wouldn't be by now). I will, however, do my best to be on Talky and participate remotely.
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snarfed !tell benwerd feel better!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed anyone want to vote on the granary logo? i'm looking at these three:
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snarfed https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/521292/agriculture_barn_building_farm_silo_storage_storehouse_icon#size=256
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snarfed https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/317096/agriculture_domestic_farm_sillo_village_icon#size=256
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snarfed https://www.iconfinder.com/icons/521298/agriculture_farm_supply_tower_village_water_icon#size=256
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snarfed leaning toward the first
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kylewm snarfed: I'd vote for #2 ... looks better as a favicon imo
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snarfed hmm!
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snarfed i wonder if that's enough of a reason on its own
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snarfed we can probably at least nix the water tower since it looks like…a water tower?
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snarfed :P
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KartikPrabhu loqi messages?
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kylewm hehe, I was wondering about the water tower :)
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KartikPrabhu !tell gRegorLove: about changing permalinks I added some stuff I ran into here: https://indiewebcamp.com/permalink#Changing_Permalinks_to_posts
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu in the same discusion kylewm snarfed bridgy does re-send webmention to changed permalinks due to POSSE-post-discovery
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kylewm it's a feature!
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snarfed lol
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KevinMarks some granaries look like that, if the area is prone to flooding
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KartikPrabhu well not if comments show up twice under the post once you have made your system also read older URL comments
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snarfed yup
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snarfed de-duping to the rescue
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KevinMarks but theoterhs are more iconic
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snarfed no pun intended!
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KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/lunch-beneath-olive-trees-beside-abandoned-silos-indieweb
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KartikPrabhu granary Icon in those option #2 looks good
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KartikPrabhu also https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=granary&i=48302
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KevinMarks to mark indiewebcamp? http://www.sentinel-standard.com/article/20150709/NEWS/150709115
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KevinMarks oh wait, another portland
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snarfed nice KartikPrabhu, some of those are good: https://thenounproject.com/term/silo/
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snarfed i like color though
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KartikPrabhu I like monochrome, actually SVGs since I can change their color in CSS as I want :P
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KartikPrabhu ooo this https://thenounproject.com/term/silo/156237/
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KartikPrabhu I vote that :P
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KevinMarks that could be any building
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KartikPrabhu well it is an icon, "save" could mean "write to floppy disk"
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kylewm tbg, that one grabbed my eye too
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kylewm tbh*
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kylewm this is the one where my parents live https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f7/1c/bd/f71cbdfc7103bbc26c6eeae72b9ee708.jpg
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KevinMarks silos converted into houses http://www.abbeyroadfarm.com/
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snarfed we are off the rails
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snarfed love it
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KevinMarks this is the one in Portland I was thinking of http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8461/8041068287_66dfc6a077_h.jpg
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snarfed i'm still mostly considering these two: https://snarfed.org/compare.png
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snarfed can't bring myself to do black and white
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: once can easily change color on SVG Icons, I can add the color if you have a specific monochrome in mind
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KevinMarks the right one is less phallic
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: i understand, but i like multiple colors, not just one
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snarfed KevinMarks: hah, now that's the key criteria
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KartikPrabhu one can add multiple colors just as easily, see my site icon :P
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snarfed one can likewise convert to grayscale or b&w, right? :P
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KartikPrabhu yes. but I am saying just the monochrome should not stop you from using the "shapes" of an icon
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KartikPrabhu if those shapes are to your liking
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snarfed got it
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KartikPrabhu anyway like the one on the right :)
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KartikPrabhu s/like/I iike
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: anyway I iike the one on the right :)
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snarfed aww, i'm the only one who likes the left one
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KartikPrabhu but it is your project :)
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snarfed not only!
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snarfed but understood
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KartikPrabhu also granary is a good name. activitystreams-unofficial sounded very unofficial for how much it is doing :)
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snarfed lol thanks
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tantek greetings from #IndieWebCamp Portland pre-party at Pints Brewing!
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tantek granary++
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Loqi granary has 2 karma
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kylewm KevinMarks: the right one is *more* phallic isn't it??
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snarfed aaaand that's my cue. back later, enjoy the preparty!
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kylewm I like the icon on the left if it didn't have the dumb yellow circle
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kylewm :embarrassed_face:
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KartikPrabhu yes circular icons are over done
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KartikPrabhu says the guy who uses circular icons on his site
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KevinMarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Savukoski.vaakuna.svg
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maxogden.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+329) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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kylewm ohh that's cool^
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KevinMarks added to http://svgur.com/
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KevinMarks so far I think 2 images not uploaded by me there
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@t going to and at IndieWebCamp Pre-Party @pintsbrewing now! http://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/07/10/1/indiewebcamp-pre-party silo https://www.facebook.com/events/1007859082588398 (ttk.me t4c61) (twitter.com/_/status/619657069059284993)