#indiewebcamp 2015-07-12

2015-07-12 UTC
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KartikPrabhu ha! lol my atom feed is dead again!
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: speak of the devil! we were just talking about that
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KartikPrabhu :)
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tjgillies_ aaronpk: https://www.evernote.com/l/AAK5cRkOobxFgpf7OJu1xLVNjY0cPeX1MXU
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KartikPrabhu I think it has been dead for a few weeks and I never noticed it because I didn't post any articles!
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tjgillies_ I'm thinking about building an indiewebsite in Elixir
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KartikPrabhu this has happened to me quite a few times
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KartikPrabhu should use granary to make h-feed to atom
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KartikPrabhu should a page send webmentions if the mentioned URL does not have a protocol in it? as in "//aaronparecki.com/" ?
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david.shanske.com edited /IRC_People (+1) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek microformats for database (actually storage) in Riker
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tantek etherpad: http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/microformatdb
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aaronpk gRegorLove: URL?
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gRegorLove http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/podcasting
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Loqi [mention] Tantek Çelik posted 'I was looking into adding some navigation links to my post feed/archive pages, when I ran into an old confusion of mine. The Web has a compl...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-04#t1435996741022 (http://tantek.com/2011/102/t2/navigation-arrows-back-past-forward-future-ui-pattern)
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aaronpk wat?
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KartikPrabhu What happened here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11#t1436662561379 !
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KartikPrabhu it picked up the author and u-url of the h-cite inside my h-entry!
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tantek lol
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aaronpk weird
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cuibonobo hey there!
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cuibonobo what's with all this etherpad stuff? is the wiki moving?
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aaronpk no, we use etherpad for taking notes during sessions, better for group editing quickly
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aaronpk afterwards, we copy the content from etherpad to the wiki
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aaronpk onto the individual session pages
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cuibonobo oooh! so there's an event going on. very cool idea.
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tantek etherpad is better for realtime collaborative note taking
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tantek cuibonobo: yes! and sometimes even live on talky
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cuibonobo what is talky?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "talky" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=talky&summary=prompted+by+cuibonobo+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-11%2Fline%2F1436664360815
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aaronpk talky is /talky.io
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loqi.me created /talky (+21) "prompted by cuibonobo https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11/line/1436664360815 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk really? no talky.io page?
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tantek bear?
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torrorist any talky live streams i can watch right now?
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cuibonobo seems like talky has a hard limit on the number of people that can participate
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cuibonobo it's more like a video chat than a streaming service
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i don't know what webmention you were talking about
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ben_thatmustbeme the only recent webmentions from me would have been this one... twice
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/7/10/1/
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ben_thatmustbeme once from me, and once for the salmention
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GWG No photo post yet?
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GWG I also want to figure out how to brain dump the book discussion.
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KartikPrabhu isn't the point of a "brain dump" to not think about how to do it?
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ben_thatmustbeme I have a lot of logs to raff back I'm sure
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ben_thatmustbeme Read*
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tjgillies_ sneak peek at phoenix webmentions: https://www.evernote.com/l/AALtbFK5Iv9NzaunylIL4gmnBx4t0wUiZ0w
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ben_thatmustbeme reading back
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell tommorris h-as- has been getting removed form AS2
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell ShaneHudson_ i was trying to get the share intent working for mobilepub but it was having problems getting the data
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks @anildash https://withknown.com/ because it integrates with social networks using #indieweb tech seamlessly (twitter.com/_/status/620064548607766528)
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@shivie RT @kevinmarks: @anildash https://withknown.com/ because it integrates with social networks using #indieweb tech seamlessly (twitter.com/_/status/620068841146613760)
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seekr Hi all - just awakened after a nap |-) - was awake during the Brighton event, but unable to see it, since Talky won't work for me - did better on the Portland event, since bret was kind enough to set up a uToob stream - but I was too tired at that point to be able to watch it, and went into sleep mode
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seekr However, I was able to record most of that stream, and am willing to send it along to whoever might like to archive the file, assuming it's OK with bret and whoever else might need to be asked.
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seekr I'm hoping that someone in Brighton might be able to do something similar to what bret did, so there's a possibility of capturing and archiving the video - and to make it more accessible during the event itself. I heard from ben_thatmustbeme that he was able to get only audio from the Talky feed, and suspect the same might have been true for others also.
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seekr I'm wondering whether bret's video might have gotten auto-archived at uToob - I'm not able to play it using the link he gave yesterday - just get one of those spinny things, as if the server is trying to start the video - https://youtu.be/yJCtLhopfDY
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@kevinmarks “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http://www.chuqui.com/2015/07/the-death-of-reddit/ (twitter.com/_/status/620081013838852101)
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620081214452469765)
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seekr We heard ya the first time, Loqi. :)
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Loqi :)
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KevinMarks my way of trolling tracking
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@Amacutnso RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620081903471689728)
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seekr oh, KevinMarks
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seekr any thoughts on what I wrote above, KevinMarks?
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seekr I'm just watching the video now, and am doing screenshots of the opening frame of each presentation, so it will be easy later for someone to build an index that lets people go to a given segment, KevinMarks.
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seekr (each screenshot frame is time-indexed in the filename)
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KevinMarks nice
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KevinMarks not sure you can upload to the wiki, but internet archive could work
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seekr glad you like the idea, KM
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seekr I'll wait to hear from someone who has the server space - the MPG file is ~600 MB
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seekr It could be converted to an MP4 or some such, ofc
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KevinMarks internet archive will take it, though chopping into sessions may make more sense.
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seekr should squeeze it down a bit - unless it's already comressed and isn't really an MPG
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seekr I agree about the chopping, but am afraid I don't have the time to be the chopper :)
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seekr At least, my screenshots could help such a person to find the break points
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@skippybkroo RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620085488771182592)
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@SandaBlue RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620085566785327104)
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bret seekr: i think youtube recorded the intros at least
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bret i will stream the post hack demos
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bret then most interesting observed part of the conference imp
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bret imo*
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@missb62 RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620086836732387328)
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@everettharper RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620090479527378944)
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tjgillies_ bret: https://www.evernote.com/l/AALotD4blVxPepE2mCrKJcUJmX0tTVnuTJk
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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tjgillies_ I have the entire webmention process inside it's own indenpendant module for phoenix
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tjgillies_ independent*
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seekr "its," tjgillies_ :)
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seekr great!
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tjgillies_ seekr: sod off ;)
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seekr just sayin'
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seekr I'm new in these parts, tjgillies_ - can you give me a pointer to good sources of info about webmention and phoenix? I want to learn about the stuff being talked about this weekend to the extent possible, so I'll have some understanding of what folks are going on about. Thanks.
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tjgillies_ Theres a talk this weekend?
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seekr there are TWO DAYS of events!
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seekr in two places - Brighton England and Portland Oregon U.S.
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bret cool tjgillies_ !
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tjgillies_ Oh bloody hell it's indie webcamp time
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tjgillies_ I didn't even realise LOL
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seekr The Brighton sessions will pick up again in about four hours or so I think.
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tjgillies_ seekr: I used it right that time geeza ;)
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seekr right you are tjgillies_!
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seekr Unfortunately, I was unable to tune in to what was happening in Brighton except via this channel and Twitter since what was streamed was only via Talky as far as I know.
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tjgillies_ seekr: Phoenix is a webframework that is an Elixir clone of Rails.
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tjgillies_ http://www.phoenixframework.org/
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seekr However, as I wrote above, I was able to capture most of what was streamed via uToob from Portland.
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tjgillies_ Elixir is a language that sits on the Erlang VM
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seekr ah
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seekr any good links to suggest? :)
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tjgillies_ The indiewebcamp wiki
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tjgillies_ https://indiewebcamp.com/
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seekr OK - I'll poke around.
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seekr thanks for the phoenix link
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tantek what is Phoenix?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Phoenix" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Phoenix&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-11%2Fline%2F1436676721724
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tantek what is Elixir?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Elixir" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Elixir&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-11%2Fline%2F1436676729646
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tantek what is Erlang?
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seekr hmmm
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Erlang" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Erlang&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-11%2Fline%2F1436676738319
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tjgillies_ what is t?
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Loqi A note is a post that is typically short unstructured* plain text, written & posted quickly, that has its own permalink page https://indiewebcamp.com/t
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tjgillies_ Why does t redirect to note?
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tjgillies_ I was 80% sure it was going to be about tantek
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seekr broken algorithm, I reckon
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seekr :)
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tjgillies_ The mental dissonance of this image is way too high: https://indiewebcamp.com/File:iwc-cambridge-sway.gif ;)
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seekr Oooooooooooo - seriously weird! :P
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tjgillies_ what is slack?
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Loqi Slack is a closed-source team communication tool similar to IRC https://indiewebcamp.com/Slack
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bret tjgillies_: come hack tomorrow!
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bret tjgillies_: we dont have to sway if you dont want to
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tjgillies_ I'm thinking about it
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KartikPrabhu is already hacking a hfeed2atom
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tjgillies_ I have Esperanto around noonish
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tjgillies_ I could possibly skip it though since its every week
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tjgillies_ sed mi tre ŝatas mian esperanton ;)
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seekr waves @ bret & wonders if he saw what I wrote a half hour ago or so
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seekr ever seen that weird Esperanto flick starring Wm. Shatner and a bunch of good-looking gals?
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tjgillies_ I have in fact
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tjgillies_ Incubus
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seekr yeah
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tantek wonders that that has to do with #indieweb 8|
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tjgillies_ tantek: My esperanto meetup conflicts with me going to indiewebcamp
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tjgillies_ although the hours of indiewebcamp and the hours of esperanto do not entirely overlap
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@buyfocal I bought something for $6 beer buyfocal, beer, indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/buyfocal/status/620096716788920320/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620096716788920320)
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KartikPrabhu err wat? ^
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KartikPrabhu oh I see it is anomalily
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tantek post type specific POSSE!
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@amygdala RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620100594838061056)
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GWG Morning, all
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seekr mornin', GWG
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GWG What is going on, seekr?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "going on, seekr" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=going+on%2C+seekr&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-11%2Fline%2F1436680201077
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seekr just listening to some lively Romanian music & puttering - was in nap mode during the Portland events, but managed to capture bret's uToob stream, GWG - planning to watch ASAP, as much as possible prior to the start of Brighton events today
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GWG I have to head to bed soon, but still trying to accomplish something before tomorrow.
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Loqi [mention] Jeena posted 'Consider my mind blown. I kind of expected I would get to this Unconference and there would be a bunch of white young guys talking mostly ab...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (/indiewebcamp-2015)
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seekr ah - good luck - will you be awake for Brighton, GWG?
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GWG seekr: I'll be lurking much of the day
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seekr good - prolly see you 'round, then, GWG
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seekr sweet dreams |-)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu++ for hfeed2atom!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 98 karma
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: thanks! :) I am fed up of my Atom feed messing up when I change some template thing elsewhere
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snarfed totally
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snarfed let me know if you want any help w/granary. (i already found an atom bug in 1.0 and pushed a fix in 1.0.1 just now)
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KartikPrabhu oh I figured to not use granary afterall.
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snarfed np!
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KartikPrabhu hfeed2atom does not need auth stuff so I skipped the big granary dependency
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KartikPrabhu although I cloned granary locally to do automatic POSSE and such :)
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snarfed makes sense
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snarfed ah nice
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KartikPrabhu future project
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snarfed just fyi dependencies now come from pip, not submodules
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KartikPrabhu yes much cleaner :P
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@jeena The first day at the #IndieWebCamp was quite different to my expectations https… more at https://jeena.net/notes/367 (twitter.com/_/status/620111278242164736)
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petermolnar (mor|eve)ning
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seekr timezone-appropriate greeting, petermolnar! (wee hrs of the morning here)
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seekr ah, petermolnar - been wanting a word with ye after reading KevinMarks' notes on your session yesterday!
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petermolnar I had an idea yesterday at one of the sessions: how about adding a DKIM implementation to webmentions for security?
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petermolnar hit me :)
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seekr I lack specific enough techie knowledge to comment on what you just said, but I'm curious as to your feelings about social networks, which I've been avoiding on philosophical grounds. Perhaps you have some better arguments, better-suited to expressing to others who are still caught in the grip of such networks.
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seekr I just read the _Daily Beast_ article about Reddit and suspect that similar pieces could be done about others, including the ubiquitous Facebook (with dif'rent specific observations, of course).
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seekr I'm working on a site where the people behind the radio programme associated with it are heading in the direction of getting more involved with Facebook, whereas I, as the techie, and the person with what I consider to be the greatest vision of the lot, want to go in exactly the opposite direction.
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petermolnar short story, read this: http://saintsal.com/facebook/
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seekr thanks much - will do, petermolnar!
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petermolnar not my writing, but it's the most complete summary of the why avoids
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petermolnar on both philosophical and technical level
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seekr good ammo for making my case, I'm sure
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petermolnar and maybe this: https://medium.com/@arankhanna/stalking-your-friends-with-facebook-messenger-9da8820bd27d
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seekr of course you've seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk3I-a3CJdo petermolnar
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petermolnar personal reasons here: https://petermolnar.eu/journal/exodus
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seekr great!
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petermolnar that's conspiracy level and I try to avoid those :)
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seekr Well, it's satire - good fun, I say. :)
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seekr But there's more than a "germ of truth" in it, I reckon.
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seekr In other words, petermolnar, it matters not whether spooky organisations are actually behind Facebook, as some would contend - if they're able to use the information they collect in ways to which clients have not expressly agreed to and about which they're largely unaware, is that difference really an important one, one wonders.
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seekr arggggh - seems the ~600 MB MPEG video file I captured from bret's uToob stream from Portland runs only just over an hour :(
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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seekr I guess it ran up until the lunch break (thanks, Loqi) - if there was a later stream, I missed it, being tired from trying (but failing) to connect with what happened in Brighton (which I'm fool enough to try again today - hoping they use a better streaming method than they did yesterday with Talky)
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seekr Is there a list of presenters for yesterday's sessions? I was hoping the grid (or pointers therefrom) might have that info
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KartikPrabhu seekr: indiewebcamps don't really have "presenters" it is more of a discussion type meet
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KartikPrabhu successfully convert h-entry to Atom format now onto feeds
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@tinokremer "Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/620127632949035008)
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petermolnar presenters are the ones who did the self introduction in this case
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seekr Well, KartikPrabhu, what I saw in the video stream bret did yesterday showed what looked to me like brief presentations followed by even briefer Q&As.
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KartikPrabhu oh i see you mean the first-day demos
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seekr I'd just like a list of the names of those who spoke and links to their sites.
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seekr Since today's sessions appear to be working ones, I guess there's not much for the virtual audience to see - except maybe after they're finished hacking.
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KartikPrabhu seekr: yes I understand. somehow that has not been asked for before
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seekr seems strange, dunnit? :)
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KartikPrabhu seekr: yes there will be demos of what people hacked on in the end
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seekr I think it's reasonable to want to learn more about what these various people are up to, and to get easy ways to connect with them and their efforts.
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KartikPrabhu seekr: as an example (and to toot my own horn) I demo-ed this https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia at the end of last year's IWC
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seekr Thanks, KartikPrabhu - I'll take a look.
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seekr It's a very interesting concept, your marginalia capturing & sharing system, whether for collaborative or purely personal efforts. Do you feel it's working well now? I'm wondering what building blocks you used, or whether it's more of a "ground up" effort.
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KartikPrabhu seekr: the building blocks are mentioned in that post :)
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KartikPrabhu it is mostly building on some things invented here at by people
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seekr ah - my quick skim missed that part, I guess - still reading, tho :)
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KartikPrabhu it bootstraps webmention and fragmention to make marginalia
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KartikPrabhu it works reasonably well now, but I am not very happy with the actual JS code. It needs some fixing
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KartikPrabhu what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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KartikPrabhu what is fragmention?
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Loqi A fragmention is an extension to URL syntax that links and cites a phrase within a document by using a URL fragment consisting of the phrase itself, including whitespace https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
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seekr thanks! as an utter newbie, I'm still learning the lingo ;)
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KartikPrabhu that is why Loqi is the best :)
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seekr I'm thinking that this sort of system could be very useful with regard to a project I'm woking on now.
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seekr Yeah - Loqi sought to cheer me up a while ago - a real pal! :)
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KartikPrabhu nice! let me know if you need help with using it
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seekr ok - the main idea is that this sort of system might be better than and/or a useful adjunct to a web-based forum for commenting on and considering what is said during the course of radio interviews done by the organisation whose site I've been working on - they're a fairly backward lot technically (with the exception of one person who retired from her job at a university as a web developer (mostly in Java, I think))
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KartikPrabhu I am not a big fan of forums personally. But marginalia.js is supposed to help comment on specific points
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seekr My immediate struggle involves pulling them out of the clutches of social media operations like Facebook (which I tend to consider to be evil) and Twitter (which seems more benign) for such purposes.
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KartikPrabhu the first step would be to get webmention working though
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KartikPrabhu yes having your own site does help to do that part
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seekr yeah - I'm thinking it would be the logical first step - only some of the shows have transcripts, which would be the obvious base for linking comments - those transcripts are represented as components within XML files, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to create some other form of document to serve as the anchor point for the comments bit
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KartikPrabhu needs to update h-feed templates to get a good Atom
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seekr I can install webmention on my own site and play with it.
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KartikPrabhu XML seems pretty annoying to me, I would rather do HTML
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KartikPrabhu seekr: yes good first step. helps you experiment
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seekr Well, it's apples & oranges - they operate in different spaces, and are each well suited for the job they do.
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seekr XML provides a data container, which is not possible in HTML.
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seekr In fact, the XML files are used as the basis for creating HTML pages.
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seekr Various items in the XML files are used for various purposes in the generation process.
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seekr But it would be possible to write a simple script to extract from transcript-bearing XML files whatever is needed to generate documents suitable for use with your software.
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seekr In fact, that process could proceed at the same time that pages for the site are being generated.
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seekr That functionality could be incorporated into the page-generation process, in other words.
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seekr If you have the time and interest, I can show you what I mean, KartikPrabhu - via PM.
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KartikPrabhu seekr: though I have interest I would definitely be lacking time. I am not actually a web-dev so catching up on other projects is pretty time-consuming for me
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seekr understood - is your code open sourced or what?
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seekr I wouldn't seek to involve you in any actual work, KartikPrabhu - only show you what I mean - but I can understand how you might want to know at this point. Certainly if your system were to be used, you'd be given appropriate credit and links.
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seekr *you might NOT want to kjnow, that is :)
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KartikPrabhu marginalia.js is open-source https://github.com/kartikprabhu/marginalia though admittedly it is pretty hacky code at the moment
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seekr The more important question, KartikPrabhu, is whether it's stable and non-buggy. :)
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KartikPrabhu that it is, I think :P I have been using it on my site for a year without a glitch
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KartikPrabhu but to reiterate the MIT license on the code "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER
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seekr great! I'm looking forward to taking a closer look and to playing with it. I'm very glad I ran into you when I did, as this could be a very important component in my struggle.
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seekr yeah - standard eula stuff
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KartikPrabhu excelsior!
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seekr Ever seen the Rocky & Bullwinkle "Excelsior" cartoon skit? :)
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seekr KartikPrabhu: https://youtu.be/MDYeav3nQEg
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KartikPrabhu well now I wil :)
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seekr :)
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seekr The humour in that clip relies on "Stuffing material (as for furniture and mattresses) made of slender, curled wood shavings, as a substitute for hair. " from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/excelsior
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seekr whereas, I realise, KartikPrabhu, yours relies on the primary original definition, from the Latin: "Loftier, yet higher; ever upward"
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KartikPrabhu of course :)
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seekr I wish you all the best in your further development efforts, and will eagerly track your progress!
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seekr (and happily serve as a beta-tester, KartikPrabhu :) )
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KartikPrabhu thanks!
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@benjaminparry [ ] IndieMark [ ] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE Let's do this! @IndieWebCampUK 2015 (twitter.com/_/status/620146279742611456)
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @benjaminparry: [ ] IndieMark [ ] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE Let's do this! @Indi… (twitter.com/_/status/620146425557581824)
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@benjaminparry @linuxluvr ~ There's notes from the discussions at the bottom of this page http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton or try the wiki on the same site. (twitter.com/_/status/620148560030531584)
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petermolnar would anyone be up to implement a dkim-like signature header to webmentions today?
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rhiaro.co.uk uploaded /File:group.jpg "IWC Brighton 2015"
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Brighton (+44) "Photo" (view diff)
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@IndieWebCampUK #IndieWebCamp Brighton participants just starting to arrive for day two! And the photo from yesterday: https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/620152756460982272/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620152756460982272)
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hardfire on the news, i just started indifying my website, made it indieauth compatible. next steps is to look for a cheap and less-maintenance solution for POSSE and webmentions. \m/
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petermolnar hardfire have you checked withknown.com ? you can't really get an easier solution
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hardfire checks withknown
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tommorris Known is pretty nice. They also have an IRC channel: #knownchat
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Loqi tommorris: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 6 hours, 14 minutes ago: h-as- has been getting removed form AS2 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11/line/1436669786237
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hardfire does look pretty nice and quick solution. will give it a shot and udpate how it goes. Still thinking if i should use the SAAS version or just get a hosting and host it there.
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petermolnar setting up known for a self-hosting environment used to be a bit tricky, especially that is like mongo better than mysql
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petermolnar is the talky session supposed to be running?
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rhiaro petermolnar: we're just sitting around all over the place, nowhere really obvious to point a acmera
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petermolnar fair enough
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rhiaro Stream will be back on for demos
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rhiaro at 4
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petermolnar anything interesting going on beside the sitting around?
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rhiaro Quiet mumbling
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rhiaro Rain
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rhiaro Biscuits
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seekr any chance of doing a uToobish stream, like bret did yesterday from Portland?
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rhiaro I'll try something different fro the demos later, seekr
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petermolnar rhiaro you've just summarized the United Kingdom :D
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seekr great! - thanks, rhiaro
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rhiaro petermolnar: haha, good point
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Loqi nice
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seekr little local humour there, I reckons :)
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petermolnar seekr where in the world are you located?
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tommorris is trying out known.
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tommorris https://tommorris.withknown.com/ ;-)
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@glennjones Cannot make in for hacking day of @indiewebcamp brighton. Hope it goes well, would love to see a video of demos at the end of the day! (twitter.com/_/status/620169065026453504)
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@adactio @glennjones @indiewebcamp Aw, shame you can’t make it. We’ll definitely be live-streaming the demos. (twitter.com/_/status/620169222744899584)
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@lewisnyman I had a great time learning and chatting at @indiewebcamp yesterday. I'm missing out on the hack day but family calls https://twitter.com/lewisnyman/status/620174708819013632/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620174708819013632)
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JohnEllison Does anyone know how to add themselves as a user to the IndieWebCamp website? Such as https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Mowens.com
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KartikPrabhu JohnEllison: you need to log in using IndieAuth
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JohnEllison I have logged in with IndieAuth
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KartikPrabhu aah ok Let me look for how to make a User page then :P
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KartikPrabhu do you have a url in mind?
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KartikPrabhu like Johnellison.com ?
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JohnEllison john-ellison.com would work fine
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KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/User:John-ellison.com
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KartikPrabhu go there are clikc "Create"
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KartikPrabhu you can use mine as a template: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kartikprabhu.com
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JohnEllison Cheers Kartik. Thanks. Also, I've downloaded a local IRC client, can I use this same username on that client?
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KartikPrabhu I think so. though IRC does not like if there are 2 user with the same name around
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KartikPrabhu a good thing to do is use the same username with an underscore after it
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KartikPrabhu that way Loqi, our resident bot recognises them as the same
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JohnEllison Sounds good. Cheers.
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KartikPrabhu neat! :)
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snarfed morning Brighton!
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rhiaro on behalf of Brighton, morning snarfed!
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snarfed lol thanks
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snarfed PSA for anyone hacking on anything today that integrates with silos (ie social networks): granary is a REST API and python lib that talks microformats2 (among other formats) to the silos
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/granary , https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: more like "time to sleep" Chicago ;)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 99 karma
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snarfed (it used to be called activitystreams-unofficial. also, it powers http://brid.gy/ )
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snarfed happy hacking!
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KartikPrabhu almost to a 100 karma internetz points!
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john-ellison.com created /User:John-ellison.com (+985) "Created page with "<div class="h-card"> <h1>[http://john-ellison.com John Ellison]</h1> <img style="float: right; padding: 0.25em; border:1px solid #eee;" src="http://www.john-ellison.com/images/jo..."" (view diff)
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rhiaro snarfed++
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rhiaro granary++
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Loqi snarfed has 112 karma
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Loqi granary has 3 karma
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KartikPrabhu JohnEllison_: awesome design on your site
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JohnEllison_ Hey thanks Kartik. I appreciate that a lot. Just constantly trying to learn and improve.
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (+51) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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petermolnar tommorris yesterday we talked about hashcash for webmentions; I would still rather go for something similar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail
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petermolnar also, I haven't spotted before, but there is an entry for ephemeral webmention endpoints on the wiki
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petermolnar for protection factor
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john-ellison.com edited /User:John-ellison.com (-1) (view diff)
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paultibbetts.uk edited /2015/Brighton (+470) "/* Participating */ added Paul Tibbetts and Hesam Bahrami" (view diff)
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john-ellison.com edited /projects (+841) "/* Ghost */" (view diff)
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tommorris petermolnar: DKIM looks... complex. any chance you could set up webmentions brainstorming on the wiki and suggest some idea of how it would work? I'm happy to chuck in how you'd do it with Hashcash
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petermolnar it is a bit complex :/
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petermolnar ( even for me, but I've done it for mail once already )
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petermolnar especially that you need to fiddle with the DNS record
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tommorris because hashcash is pretty easy
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tvn Has anyone tried to install Known locally (today in Brighton)?
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tommorris petermolnar: like `./hashcash -mb24 "https://petermolnar.eu/blips/werk-photos-of-blade-runner-models"`
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tommorris you then get back "hashcash stamp: 1:24:150712:https://tommorris.org/posts/9347::Lp0ppVc1LcrFx9ZP:00000000000000000000000000000Q+yD"
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petermolnar I did, a while ago, when it was beta ( and I'm not in Brighton :( )
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Anonymous111 How is the mini-conference going?
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petermolnar that's definitely easier
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tommorris then you just send &hashcash=[bla] with your webmention
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tommorris if you aren't using hashcash, you ignore it
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tommorris and if you are, you validate it
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@iamjohnellison Hacking away at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iamjohnellison/status/620186719317532672/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620186719317532672)
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petermolnar ... or you drop the webmention if it comes without a hashcash :)
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tommorris or stick it in a moderation queue
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tommorris then you could do something like publish your hashcash minimum bit level in your site
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petermolnar oh: http://www.prodevtips.com/2008/02/04/wp-hashcash/
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petermolnar ( yes, I know, WordPress, shame on me )
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tommorris <meta name="webmention-hashcash" content="24" />
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @iamjohnellison: Hacking away at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iamjohnellison/status/620186719317532672/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620187275645857792)
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @rhiaro: Yo dawg I heard you like #indiewebcamp http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/yo-dawg-heard (twitter.com/_/status/620187427513200640)
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tommorris hashing a 24-bit hashcash for a URL takes about 5 seconds on my MacBook Pro
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tommorris about 2 seconds for a 23-bit one
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @calum_ryan: #indiewebcamp live blog http://calumryan.com/blog/indiewebcamp1/ (bear with me catching up!) (twitter.com/_/status/620187812084756480)
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petermolnar I don't know what is considered fine in this case; how does a small vps appliance compare to a macbook pro in cpu?
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell seekr did I say there was only audio from the talky feed??
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme kinda sped things up, but i think i am up to date
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: how goes Brighton?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: Pretty chill
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rhiaro Everyone is heads down, typey typey
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rhiaro It's raining, so nobody wants to go out to the beach, which helps :)
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petermolnar anyone needs help with https?
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rhiaro I *think* most people came back, but there are fewer for sure
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rhiaro I'll ask petermolnar
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ben_thatmustbeme what are people working on?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "people working on" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=people+working+on&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-12%2Fline%2F1436699573658
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petermolnar thank you rhiaro
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rhiaro There are a fair few people starting from scratch
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ShaneHudson_ I just woke up (oops lol) but working on my android app for sharing a reply url to quill
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Loqi ShaneHudson_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 8 hours, 16 minutes ago: i was trying to get the share intent working for mobilepub but it was having problems getting the data http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11/line/1436669849862
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rhiaro oh, nice ShaneHudson, I'd use that!
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ShaneHudson_ ben_thatmustbeme Which issues were you having?
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rhiaro I'm working on displaying incoming webmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme ShaneHudson_: mobilepub uses apache cordova, i could get the app to launch from the share menu but it never got any data
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ShaneHudson_ Oh I see
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ben_thatmustbeme and there are like 5 plugins for it and all seemed to be out of date
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ShaneHudson_ 1 second, that's exactly the bit I'm about to test
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ben_thatmustbeme but its a starting point if you didn't want to go in to full app dev
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Loqi !calc 1 second, that's exactly the bit I'm about to test
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rhiaro petermolnar: I let everyone know you're waiting and willing to help :)
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ben_thatmustbeme ah, nevermind then
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ben_thatmustbeme just realized he sends a salmention for EVERY mention he gets, including likes and mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm thats not idea
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ben_thatmustbeme l
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ShaneHudson_ Right so I get output in the form of "Take a look at @britishminiclub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/britishminiclub/status/620026068758564864?s=09"
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@britishminiclub The British Mini Club Daily is out! http://paper.li/britishminiclub?edition_id=7226ddd0-282c-11e5-bf03-0cc47a0d1609 Stories via @martin_oxley @RichardMylan (twitter.com/_/status/620026068758564864)
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ShaneHudson_ So need to parse that to get the url only and should be fine I think :)
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ShaneHudson_ Then I will probably need to send a PR to Quill to accept reply url
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joskar petermolnar: (re hashcash on small vps) I just tested, and 24-bit took between 2 and 14s on a small vps but 5-34s on an small ARM server.
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ben_thatmustbeme ShaneHudson_: perhaps pass as ?url= and then try to make it a general thing
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joskar (Small sample size though)
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ben_thatmustbeme configure what site you want to direct to
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petermolnar 5-34s is a bit to much imho
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petermolnar thank you joskar
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ShaneHudson_ ben_thatmustbeme: Yeah that is step 2... I have never done android dev before lol So settings page can come after functionality :)
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joskar petermolnar: I agree, for 23-bits the values were 2-21s for the ARM server. (mostly around 9s it seems)
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tommorris joskar: for what level?
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hotzeplotz bear or aaronpk: hacking on indie-stats at iwc brighton - any of your around and able to help me get started? having issues logging in (either on indie-stats.com or my test instance) once authenticated by indieauth.com
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hotzeplotz looks like scope is empty and indie-stats.py just displays 'authentication failed' with 403
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joskar tommorris: 5-34s for -mb24 and 2-21s for -mb23 on the ARM device. Was that what you were asking about?
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tommorris I'll stick all this in webmention brainstorming
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@benjaminparry [ ] IndieMark [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twitter.com/_/status/620194884641800192)
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @benjaminparry: [ ] IndieMark [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twitter.com/_/status/620198151165714432)
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@hotzeplotz @benjaminparry IndieMark (partly) outsourced to #lazyweb: http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-stats - adding features to this instead! #IndieWebCampUK (twitter.com/_/status/620198521774469120)
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@CodebarBrighton Some codebar Brighton students and mentors are having a great time building on our personal websites at @indiewebcamp today :D (twitter.com/_/status/620200790343421953)
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tommorris.org edited /Webmention (+1129) "/* proof-of-work */ hashcash" (view diff)
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tommorris joskar, petermolnar: https://gist.github.com/tommorris/d57178fd02ee991e8c08
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ShaneHudson_ How do we go about recomending micropub clients to implement a ?url= for in reply to?
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@benjaminparry [-] IndieMark (~0.8) [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twitter.com/_/status/620203028486975488)
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ShaneHudson_ App is working very nicely :) No settings yet but it feels almost native, I close the app as soon as possible once the web browser opens :)
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tommorris rhiaro: I hear mention through the grapevine of fish'n'chips
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ShaneHudson_ aaronpk: Are you around? If so I would love feedback on this issue https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/17 otherwise I will go ahead and implement anyway hah
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ben_thatmustbeme ShaneHudson_: convention... maybe put it in the micropub brainstorming
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ShaneHudson_ ben_thatmustbeme: Ah you are already using ?url= for something slightly different ha
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@hotzeplotz #indiewebcamp switch own site to https: done (twitter.com/_/status/620209414541312000)
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mey.vn created /User:Mey.vn (+19) "Created page with "see https://mey.vn/"" (view diff)
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joskar tommorris: I've updated with the devices I can currently test on.
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mey.vn edited /IRC_People (+109) "/* add self */" (view diff)
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@paulrobertlloyd I’m at #indiewebcamp, playing with Webmentions. Help me test my (in progress) implementation… https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/620213263985455104)
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tommorris joskar: cheers
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@ThatEmil Was hoping to work on getting Webmention for my blog today. But after writing blog post, editing book, cleaning apartment I think I’m out. (twitter.com/_/status/620213957534613504)
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lewisnyman I implemented webmentions on my jekyll site :) https://github.com/lewisnyman/lewisnyman.co.uk-source/issues/12
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lewisnyman I still have to actually display them... but at least I have it working end to end
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lewisnyman Lunch time!
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Loqi [mention] https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (webmention)
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@danalocoder RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620222826201645056)
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@paulrobertlloyd @jaygreasley BOOM! https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions#webmentions (Thanks!) (twitter.com/_/status/620223678958170112)
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Loqi [bridgy] Roy Scholten favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/tvnweb/status/619858175374790656)
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Loqi [bridgy] just a guy replied '@tvnweb Be cool if you could encourage people to take notes - links to etherpads on schedule indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton#… :)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/619859901536436224)
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Loqi [bridgy] John Ellison favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/tvnweb/status/619858175374790656)
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@kirilind Adding microformats to @ouisharelabs website in @IndieWebCampUK - verify http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flabs.ouishare.net%2F https://stream.ouisharelabs.net/s/33KK3 (twitter.com/_/status/620229934070517760)
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@paulrobertlloyd Next problem: how to include avatars from webmention posts without downloading high-resolution images!? #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/620231269792751616)
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tommorris it's that time when I need to refer to the HTML5 spec
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@benjaminparry Testing WebMentions (http://benjamin.parry.is/writing/testing-webmentions/) (twitter.com/_/status/620232212638609408)
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tommorris I'm working out some linting rules for microformats2. feel free to add to them. http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-linting
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tommorris at some point, mf2py may evolve to do linting/validation too. ;-)
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk I see you tagged v0.2.10 of php-mf2 on the 10th — thanks for merging those pull requests! In future can you let me know if you want to to tag a new version so that I can add to the changelog and sign the commit? I’m currently releasing v0.2.12
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek are demos in Brighton finished?
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petermolnar they will be started in 40mins in theory, won't they?
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tommorris tantek: nope, 15:24 in Brighton, we'll be demoing things.
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tommorris ...demoing things at some point soon
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tantek ok cool! glad I didn’t miss it - just waking up and timezone math is hard ;)
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tommorris my mini-life hack for that: google "time in [city]" and it'll tell you
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tantek Loqi, what time is it in Brighton?
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Loqi :)
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rhiaro <Loqi> 15:26
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tommorris tantek: take a gander at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-linting :)
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rhiaro I've got your back, Loqi
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tantek rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 121 karma
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tantek tommorris: I gave up on <article>
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tantek AFAIK it doesn’t help with any use-cases
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tantek and re: 4, I think you mean dt-published
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tommorris yes.
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tantek but you could say dt-created <= dt-published <= dt-updated
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tommorris just stuff I'm scribbling down as I work on other things.
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tantek dt-created is mostly a brainstorm right now anyway
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tantek though I suspect we’ll start seeing it as people create/use more offline posting UIs
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tantek I assume demos will be broadcast on talky?
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tommorris hmm. I treat created & published the same because of <time created>
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tommorris can we get HTML5 to add published...? ;-)
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tantek tommorris: why? nearly no one bothers with those attributes on <time>
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tantek I thought we dumped them
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tantek they’re just vestigial from early attempts and making a 1:1 conversion from HTML5 to Atom
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tommorris they're still in HTML5 published spec iirc
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rhiaro.co.uk moved /File:group.jpg to /File:iwcbrighton2015.jpg
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tommorris oh it got dumped from HTML LS
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tantek yeah it did - and I thought HTML5 too
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme hey all, will there be a talky for Brighton demos?
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tantek I hope so!
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: Gonna try youtube, as seekr couldn't get talky working
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rhiaro Unless anyone has a better one than youtube
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tantek I tried loading talky / iwc-brighton and didn’t see anyone
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rhiaro Demos in 30 mins
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: cool. it allows for saving too
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tantek how’s the quality on youtube vs. talky?
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tantek saving is useful
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rhiaro the stream from PDX was fine for me
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tantek the youtube one?
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rhiaro yeah
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barnabywalters agreed, the quality of the YT stream was better than talky usually is
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rhiaro This is, assuming I can borrow a laptop from someone, cos the mic on my chromebook is terrible. Also I wouldn't be able to scribe..
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: its probably a bit late, but we have an indiewebcamp youtube account
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barnabywalters for me down here in the SW at least
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rhiaro oh, it's not late, can I use that? Who has the login?
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure how to add people, going to try now
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ben_thatmustbeme i think aaronpk has to do it, i can't add managers
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rhiaro.co.uk moved /File:iwcbrighton2015.jpg to /File:IWC_Brighton_2015_group_photo.jpg
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ben_thatmustbeme added yesterday's video to the playlist at least https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCco4TTt7ikz9xnB35HrD5gQ/playlists
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ben_thatmustbeme i should download all the videos form YT to archive them as well
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ben_thatmustbeme s/form/from/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: i should download all the videos from YT to archive them as well
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ben_thatmustbeme is fast approaching a working sample of mp-chaining
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tantek quick time check?
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rhiaro doesn't have anything to demo :S
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tantek time to demo?
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tantek (as in how much left)
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rhiaro T-13 minutes
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rhiaro On the next hour
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe, just flipping through that IWC video and happened on the SWAT0 discussion
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek really threw down the gauntlet
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tantek oh that’s been saved?
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ben_thatmustbeme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJCtLhopfDY
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ben_thatmustbeme hangouts on air can automatically save to youtube
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ben_thatmustbeme which it did
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ben_thatmustbeme bret++
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Loqi bret has 74 karma
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tantek did we link to that somewhere from /2015 ?
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: feel free to annotate time indexes!
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ben_thatmustbeme i saw an edit in the chat that said it was linking
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tantek you know you can make time index links to specific seconds of a yt vid right?
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tantek timeline marginalia as it were
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tantek.com moved /File:IWC_Brighton_2015_group_photo.jpg to /File:2015-07-11-IWC-Brighton.jpg "use specific date to disambiguate, event type, city, default is a group so leave that out, same with photo"
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adactio.com edited /2015/Brighton (+0) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Brighton (+18) "fix embed" (view diff)
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tantek wow we didn’t end sessions til 18:30 on day 1 of IWC 2015 Portland yesterday!
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rhiaro Youtu.be/aMuQ2U8nFPU
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tantek and IWC Brighton finished at 17:00!
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rhiaro Does that work?
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rhiaro Aaanyone?
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john-ellison.com edited /User:John-ellison.com (+61) (view diff)
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rhiaro seekr, petermolnar, ben_thatmustbeme ^
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tantek rhiaro: I see it now
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petermolnar yes, it does
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rhiaro Good good
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ben_thatmustbeme looks good here
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rhiaro Just waitng for everyone to reassemble
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@IndieWebCampUK IndieWebCamp Brighton demos starting momentarily! Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/620247500247683072)
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rhiaro DEMOS!
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petermolnar waves back
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rhiaro adactio: plan was to post to site via SMS
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rhiaro ... got it working, and posting to twitter, but took longer than expected. Https was a problem, not sure why
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rhiaro ... Endpoint had to be on a subdomain not on https
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tommorris https://twitter.com/Sulcalibur/status/620244698490343424
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@Sulcalibur @adactio Next you'll be sending a fax (twitter.com/_/status/620244698490343424)
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tommorris ^ there's an idea
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rhiaro haha
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tantek lol
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rhiaro Indiewebbers with FaxMachine, almost as silly as volcano...
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petermolnar oohohoh faxes
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petermolnar ( our team used to manage 4k fax lines at the company )
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rhiaro adactio: advantage to this is being in a really low bandwidth situation
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ben_thatmustbeme avoids any shcema.org reference
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rhiaro ... *something baffling happens*
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rhiaro ... *live demo alert*
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rhiaro ... It worked!
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tommorris adactio: "oh shit"
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: volcanos could have a visitor center.... OCEANS with a fax machine is worse
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@indiewebcamp RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCamp Brighton demos starting momentarily! Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/620248193637310464)
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tommorris ben_thatmustbeme: there's probably some fax machines in the ocean. I know that's where I'd throw 'em.
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ben_thatmustbeme adactio++ well done
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Loqi adactio has 16 karma
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rhiaro lady-bug.info
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rhiaro ... Wanted to work more on content
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rhiaro ... 'bits & pieces' section. Includes code snippets
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barnabywalters the IWC brighton demos youtube live stream link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMuQ2U8nFPU
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rhiaro ... Adds content on github, and retrieves on site, which is Wordpress
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rhiaro ... Uses a plugin
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rhiaro ... Pulls content from github into a post
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rhiaro adactio: looked at oembed?
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ben_thatmustbeme tommorris: well sory, fax number not fax machine
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tantek oembed is too much hassle to faff with
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rhiaro Plugin is Github Embed
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tommorris hey, if Tower Bridge can have a Twitter account, you could have a fax number for an ocean. maybe you can fax things to it and it'll print them out and drop them in the ocean.
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rhiaro tommorris: fax a message in a bottle?
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JohnEllison_ tommorris: :)
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tommorris prepares the Arts Council grant.
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mey.vn created /indieweb.txt (+2119) "Created page with "indieweb.txt is a proposal (first discussed at IndieWebCamp Brighton 2015) for a strategy to allow IndieWeb site owners to share information about: * IndieWeb tools they are usi..."" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 20542 of [[indieweb.txt]] patrolled" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /indieweb.txt (+123) "HTML?" (view diff)
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rhiaro Guillerme: Made a shout wall. Practicing PHP. Wants to change font based on mood
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rhiaro Johannes: johannesdachsel.com
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tommorris.org edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 20312 of [[my favorite database]] patrolled" (view diff)
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rhiaro ... Wanted to get webmentions up and running. Had an endpoint but didn't store it
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petermolnar that reminded me to the setup the the page responsiveness was based on what the webcam saw of your distance from the screen
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rhiaro ... So now, created fields in ProcessWire. Uses Bridgy. When a wm comes in, it populates the post fields
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rhiaro ... And in the frontend, it displays stars, reposts, comments etc
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rhiaro ... And on the post page, started on facepile
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rhiaro ... Kind of is already a plugin for processwire
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rhiaro ... But currently tailored to the fields I set up, so I wll have to make that configurable
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JohnEllison_ Johannes: good stuff my man
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rhiaro Norm: Wants to back up / PESOS data
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rhiaro ... Has made an Instagram backup
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rhiaro ... *does the oauth dance*
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: the video keeps popping back and forth between the broadcast and charlotte's acct
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ben_thatmustbeme need to set "present to everyone"
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbe me... uh, okay
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rhiaro The only button is 'stop broadcasting'. What do I need to look for?
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ben_thatmustbeme if you are broadcasting, just click on the view of the video. clicking a specific person locks to them
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ben_thatmustbeme taht should be fine
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cackhanded !https://github.com/norm/instagram-backup
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adactio Wow, Norm’s Instagram exporter is great!
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rhiaro A specific person?
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rhiaro tommorris: rebuild of site, has some plumbing to show
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ben_thatmustbeme not too big a deal if you dont' get it
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ben_thatmustbeme it happens when it goes silent
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tantek go tommorris !
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ben_thatmustbeme there should be an option at the top for "present to everyone" somehwere
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ben_thatmustbeme or maybe on their preview window
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rhiaro tommorris: demos rdfa and json-ld, but not all working :)
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rhiaro ... for places
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rhiaro ... You can also add .json, .rdf, .n3, .nt file extensions
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rhiaro ... This is done with Django middleware
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ben_thatmustbeme accoring to docs, drop down on preview window at bottom has that option
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rhiaro got it, thanks ben_thatmustbeme
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rhiaro ... adactio: "the html is the source of truth"
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rhiaro All of tommorris's rdf/feed data is parased out of the html
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rhiaro ... Also been working on code to turn microformats json into Atom
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rhiaro ... Then, iCal, vCard, etc
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tommorris rhiaro: all the RDF ones are working except JSON-LD for some odd reason I'll remedy in jost a moment
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tommorris *just
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tommorris fixed
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rhiaro notizblog: hCard, sempress
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rhiaro ... Has anyone here not been on indiewebify.me? *no hands*
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rhiaro ... paultibbits.co.uk
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rhiaro tommorris: if you can see URLs/remember people's names, can you fill in / correct me?
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rhiaro I am failing at both
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel?
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell bret can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: sure, I'll put you in touch with Charlotte
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rhiaro after demos
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rhiaro ... Want to look like aprilzero.com
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tommorris.org edited /Special:Log/patrol () "marked revision 20141 of [[Telegram]] patrolled" (view diff)
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rhiaro Andy: a tale of woe..
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rhiaro ... Was going to get involved in indiemark, but seeing as Paul challenged me to get a blog I thought I'd try to get micropub up and running on a new box
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rhiaro ... Got some hosting on Digital Ocean, spin up an ubuntu box, set up a firewall, set up SSH....
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rhiaro ... About 11, kicked off DNS propagation
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rhiaro ... Hasn't caught up yet.
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rhiaro ... Installed node
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bret ben_thatmustbeme: go for it! Public domain cc 0 wtfbbq etc
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Loqi bret: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 minutes ago: can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436714908553
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kylewm ShaneHudson_: I commented on your Quill issue: https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/17#issuecomment-120730705
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@paulrobertlloyd Overheard: “Seeing as Paul challenged me to set up a blog…” That’s the spirit @dennisimo! Your move, @patrickhamann. #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/620254198572154880)
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rhiaro oh ben_thatmustbeme: do you just need a 'verbal' approval? I wasn't sure if you were referring to some technical youtube process
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tantek paulrobertlloyd++
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Loqi paulrobertlloyd has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: just verbal. technical is easy
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petermolnar can someone please whisper him when he's done that digitalocean does free dns hosting with 900sec revisit time? :)
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rhiaro Andy: read through everything, went to have a look to see if anyone has done anything in node for micropub. Nobody has
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rhiaro ... So looked at PHP. Trying to port something from one language ou don't speak to another language you don't speak is challenging..
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seekr hi, rhiaro - been having severe ISP problems today - will check your uToob link now
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Loqi seekr: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 4 hours, 24 minutes ago: did I say there was only audio from the talky feed?? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436699371162
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ben_thatmustbeme s/uToob/youtube
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seekr hi, ben_thatmustbeme - where do I pick up the msg Loqi mentioned?
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ben_thatmustbeme thats it, its done
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ben_thatmustbeme it just replays the message when you speak in IRC
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seekr what's done, besides Brighton?
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seekr ah - I see.
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seekr You're referring to my mentioning to someone earlier today you could only get audio yesterday, ben_thatmustbeme? Did I misquote you?
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rhiaro Andy: will publish node version of micropub ultimately
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rhiaro paulrobertlloyd.com: Launched website!
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tantek hey seekr - we’re focusing on taking notes of the Brighton demos right now - maybe hold off on questions / other IRC discussion til after?
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seekr ok, tantek
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rhiaro ... One post, with an old webmention. Still developing locally what it should look like
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rhiaro ... Been using Aaron Gustafson's thing for Jekyll
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rhiaro ?: set up https
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rhiaro ... indieweb.txt
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tantek could Brighton presenters say their name and domain name?
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rhiaro ... indiestats already on the wiki
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rhiaro ... indie-stats.com, source code on github, but code doesn't seem to be what is live
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rhiaro ... What I did today was understand what's in the indiestats core
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rhiaro s/?/mey.vn
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rhiaro ... Gets all the websites from the irc-people page on the wiki
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rhiaro ... Is a json dump of relevant metadata from a website
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rhiaro ... rel=me etc
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rhiaro ... Idea is to add parsing of indieweb.txt
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rhiaro ... Which includes tools people are using
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lewisnyman I'm watching!
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rhiaro ... In indieweb.txt, link to blog posts decribing tools and reasons, rather than putting it all in there
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rhiaro ... Or maybe an embedded rel= instead of indieweb.txt
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rhiaro ... All up for discussion in IRC in the next few days!
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rhiaro ... To promote discovery, as well as back up decisions
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rhiaro Charlotte: lottejackson.com
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rhiaro ... Spent time getting a local version of site running
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rhiaro ... Added microformats
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 1 hour, 27 minutes ago: I see you tagged v0.2.10 of php-mf2 on the 10th — thanks for merging those pull requests! In future can you let me know if you want to to tag a new version so that I can add to the changelog and sign the commit? I’m currently releasing v0.2.12 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436710842440
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GWG Good morning, aaronpk
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aaronpk ah thanks barnabywalters! will do!
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rhiaro ... Just threw in all microformats I found
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rhiaro ... Read a lot
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rhiaro ... Did manage to send a webmention
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rhiaro ... Not receiving yet, started
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aaronpk Brighton demos are streaming on the PDX projector!
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rhiaro awesome aaronpk
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rhiaro ... *uncovers bugs in adactio's site*
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tommorris.org edited /Instagram (+112) "/* Exporting your data */ adding cackhanded's backup tool" (view diff)
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rhiaro JohnEllison: sketched ideas for a service that could piggyback off indieweb.txt idea
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rhiaro ... Maybe something like indiewebify.me could look for the indieweb.txt then give you an automatic score from indiemark
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rhiaro ... I know indiestats is a crawler
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rhiaro ... but could nice if it also recieved information from users
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rhiaro ... Be nice ot have a standard way of seeing what resources people are using
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rhiaro ... Visualisations of stats, number of sites using a given technology etc
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rhiaro ... Edited some wiki pages
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rhiaro ... Added previous/next navigation to my site
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rhiaro ... john-ellison.com
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rhiaro ... Getting started with mifroformats
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rhiaro Raphael: Was playing with Jekyll. Trying to build a plugin
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rhiaro ... When you build a Jekyll site, it looks through the posts to convert microformats into json, and stores it in a separate file
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tommorris https://tommorris.org/posts/9348
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rhiaro ... Having some issues
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KevinMarks yikes, I thought demos were at 5 not 4 :(
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GWG Just got back, and saw the demos were up. Got them up on the screen
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rhiaro Rosa: rosa-fox.com
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KevinMarks resize the window - chrome bug
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rhiaro ... Blog was one long page. Made an admin section.
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rhiaro ... Uses static files for blog posts, so they're separate with their own urls, rather than being on one page
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KevinMarks video frozen
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rhiaro should be back
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rhiaro Benjamin Parry: worked through indiemark
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rhiaro ... Added more relmeauth options
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rhiaro ... Worked through indiewebify.me
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rhiaro ... indiewebify.me isn't picking up author, not sure why
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barnabywalters ooh, what’s the URL? I’ll look into it
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rhiaro adactio: needs to be link rel=
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rhiaro barnabywalters: we've debugged I think
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rhiaro ... Added description to blog posts
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rhiaro ... Added microformats
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rhiaro ... Spent whole afternoon trying to get webmentions using Aaaron Gustafson's plugin for Jekyll, but wasn't working
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rhiaro rhiaro: will post incoming webmention display progress when online :)
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rhiaro HI EVERYONE
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tvn hi
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tommorris greetings humans
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JohnEllison_ Thanks everyone! Super fun weekend...
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rhiaro IRC being projected on the screen is the *most* exciting thing
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aaronpk waves from PDX
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GWG waves from NYC
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tantek waves from the Ace Hotel Portland
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barnabywalters waves from Devon
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tvn o/
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KevinMarks HWC UK!
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GWG Every time I tell people I'm involved with something called the Homebrew Website Club, they think I make beer
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tantek Is Brighton getting a HWC?
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aaronpk GWG: one time a random dude showed up at the PDX HWC and thought there was free beer
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rhiaro Brighton yes, Birmingham maybe
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barnabywalters aaronpk: did he leave with a website?
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aaronpk hehe
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GWG Maybe it should be changed to Homegrown Website Club. But then they'd want vegetables.
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tommorris I could bring some courgettes.
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barnabywalters mmmmm
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tommorris h-courgette
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rhiaro has everyone gone a bit mad?
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tommorris PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB
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tantek tommorris: sounds like an h-product :P
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rhiaro tardis.pub
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petermolnar thanks to everyone for putting this together, definitely see you next year ( worst case :) )
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rhiaro ^ that's a url
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rhiaro IWC BRIGHTON SIGNING OFF
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tantek o/
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tommorris http://schema.org/BarOrPub
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GWG petermolnar: I didn't spot you on the feed.
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barnabywalters tommorris: lol
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petermolnar I'm not there today; only yesterday ( work... )
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indie-visitor_ \nick anomalily
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GWG petermolnar: Oh. Okay.
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GWG We going to switch to the PDX feed?
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glennjones Really sorry I could make today, great demos
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lewisnyman Yep great demos :)
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Loqi slack/shaunguice: (g'mornin from berkeley, ca.) Caught the last 10 mins of the stream :simple_smile: I like John-Ellison's idea of indiestats as a crawler.
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GWG Here we are...please stand by for 48 more minutes
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GWG anomalily: Nice speaking to you yesterday, by the way
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ShaneHudson_ kylewm: Thanks for the reply to github about ?repl=, my app is now working nicely :) Will improve to work with a settings page
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tantek is thinking of taking on the challenge of nice “mobile” post styling today
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ben_thatmustbeme when does PDX start, 9 or 10?
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ben_thatmustbeme actually its past 9, so i'm guessing 10
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tantek I think 9:30 doors open, start at 10
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: sounded like some good interest in SWAT0
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ben_thatmustbeme heard one person in the audience say "I'd be up for doing A"
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: in what context?
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tantek in which audience?
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ben_thatmustbeme PDX, during your discussion of it from day 1
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tantek ah ok
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tantek that reminds me
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tantek I think my first “hack” task for today is to define comments markup since no one else has bothered to respond to my requests in IRC the past 2-3 days :/
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ShaneHudson_ I feel quite productive this weekend, got micropub working, went casino, got cleaning done, make a quick android app for sharing and now cooking a roast :)
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tantek aaronpk, kylewm, benwerd, ben_thatmustbeme ^^^^^
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aaronpk i need to work with you on that in order to finish part B of sawt0
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tantek aaronpk - can you at least document your existing comments markup on the wiki?
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i am publishing now a copy of your example, it seemed to make sense
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ben_thatmustbeme h-cite p-comment
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aaronpk tantek: where? here? http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup
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tantek aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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aaronpk gotcha
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seekr I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I note that the demos video is now archived, in case anyone missed it when it was live: https://youtu.be/aMuQ2U8nFPU - I suppose this link will be added to the wiki.
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, i didn't do p-summary
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tantek tell ben_thatmustbeme,benwerd,kylewm really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki.
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tantek !tell ben_thatmustbeme,benwerd,kylewm really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, would e-content make more sense?
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718176490
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: what do you mean by “make more sense?” - what’s the use-case for e-content above p-content ?
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tantek in general if someone asks “make more sense”, my gut reaction is to say no it would not, provide a specific reason.
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: your example on the page doesn't have p-content, only p-summary
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ben_thatmustbeme comments could be quite long
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: please follow order of requests in the !tell
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aaronpk i think as a consumer, you're going to have to look at the "content" property and if it's a string, use that value, if it's an object, use the "text" property
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tantek my comments markup is linked from here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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ben_thatmustbeme this is feedback / brainstorming. or do you want feedback on wiki
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you’re looking at the wrong thing
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tantek I don’t have p-summary in my comments on my article
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tantek please read http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 literally
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tantek feedback here is fine because I’d rather see people discuss it
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tantek here realtime
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aaronpk i meant "value" property
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tantek I’ve already pointed out that the “how to markup” on the wiki is likely out of date (also in IRC in the past couple of days - do a search for all references to “comment-presentation” )
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ben_thatmustbeme ah, sorry, thought it had been updated
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ben_thatmustbeme or at least that code sample
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aaronpk so the wiki says "The class p-summary is used on the p-comment h-cite because the expectation is that the site may have summarized..."
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tantek no - because I’m still waiting for people to provide feedback
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tantek that’s the problem - I get the feeling no one is listening
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aaronpk I think that is fine, if the site does in fact summarize/truncate it
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tantek hence why I specifically asked for this: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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tantek aaronpk - wiki is out of date per current publising practices
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ben_thatmustbeme is changing diapers and code at the same time
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ben_thatmustbeme #multitasking
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tantek aaronpk - which is why I’m asking for feedback on my markup, not the wiki’s “how to markup"
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KevinMarks do we need an -examples page?
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tantek KevinMarks: no we haven’t yet
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aaronpk i think we need an examples page
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GWG Okay, neither my POSSE plugin nor Bridgy want to publish. Annoyed
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tantek we’ve been putting them inline elsewhere on indiewebcamp
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aaronpk otherwise i don't even know where all the examples are to look at
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tantek aaronpk - there are none currently
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tantek on the wiki for comments markup - that’s my point
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tantek hence asking for feedback on my comments markup *on my site*
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aaronpk are you waiting for someone else to add them?
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KevinMarks lets make one and collate - on microformats?
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KevinMarks or on indiewebcamp
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tantek no I’m waiting for someone to give feedback in IRC
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aaronpk there are 4 sites that I know of, kylewm.com, tantek.com (one post) aaronparecki.com, ben.thatmustbe.me
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kylewm messages?
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KevinMarks also webmention.io and webmention.herokuapp.com
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aaronpk tantek: i think your mf2 is fine, http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718336697
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 7 minutes ago: really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718176490
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aaronpk webmention.io doesn't output HTML markup
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aaronpk tantek: I don't really care what your HTML looks like, only what the parsed result looks like. as a consumer of that, I see the "content" property is a string value, and I know what to do with that
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tantek aaronpk - ok good to now
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tantek s/now/know
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Loqi tantek meant to say: aaronpk - ok good to know
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aaronpk I will have to do the same heuristics as in h-entry to determine whether the "content" property is the same as the "name" property to be able to tell whether the "name" value is useful to display
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tantek aaronpk - as a separate issue, the fact that you have to do such heuristics means there’s likely something we should fix with implied p-name
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aaronpk i agree
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: it was far better than my (non marked up comments) p-comment would seem an easy way for me to pull that data
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tantek I use p-content there because 1) I’m not including any HTML from the source comment, thus p-* instead of e-*
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders how nested comments will be marked up, just nest p-comments within p-comments?
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KevinMarks we have http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-examples
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tantek and 2) I use p-content because I’m showing *the entire comment*, and thus p-content instead of p-summary
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tantek KevinMarks - that’s horribly out of date
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tantek I think we’re way past that level of analysis
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KevinMarks so should we fix it or start http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-examples
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tantek neither for now
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KevinMarks o_O
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tantek because if we can converge quickly on best practices, we just update the “how to markup” on /comment-presentation
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tantek KevinMarks, per http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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KevinMarks so you're saying instead of docuemtning practices on the wiki we shoudl chat in irc>
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KevinMarks what are comment examples?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "comment examples" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=comment+examples&summary=prompted+by+KevinMarks+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-12%2Fline%2F1436719006284
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tantek because the practices are so new that they are changing
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ben_thatmustbeme is h-cite, p-comment the logical really? or is it more like h-comment?
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tantek KevinMarks, by the time you document it on the wiki, people will have changed their markup - so it’s not that useful
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: why do you need a new object h-comment?
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kylewm microformats wiki recommends "p-comment h-entry", so that's another candidate
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: always try to re-use existing building blocks before making up new ones
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tantek kylewm: yes that’s out of date too
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tantek we started with that on indiewebcamp, and then switch to p-comment h-cite to indicate that it’s not an original entry but rather a citation of someone else’s entry
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tantek which provides the immediate flexibility to do things like truncate, use plain text instead of HTML etc.
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kylewm tantek: your markup looks good to me, mine is the same except I use e-content because I allow some minimal html through
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tantek kylewm - ok good to know
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ben_thatmustbeme just more thinking that p-comment indicates its only paragraph. yet is can have its own header and such
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ben_thatmustbeme and nested comments
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ben_thatmustbeme i think h-cite makes sense, just wanted to throw that idea in there
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ben_thatmustbeme h-cite since its a replay of offsite data (might not contain the full text
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: p-* does not mean paragraph! where did you get that from?!?
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ben_thatmustbeme wayyyy back when i first started, not sure
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kylewm pfefferle's question on the wiki is well-founded -- what about native comments (i.e. not webmention/pingback)
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KevinMarks p- means plaintext
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ben_thatmustbeme didn't mean just one paragraph, or paragraph in the html sense
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ben_thatmustbeme but yes, plain text
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ben_thatmustbeme is not too eloquent at times
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tantek native comments make sense as h-entry
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tantek since that’s the canonical version of the thing
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ben_thatmustbeme good point, but then we are mixing h-entry and h-cite ? would that be difficult on processing
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ben_thatmustbeme ?
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aaronpk i don't think that'd be any harder
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kylewm Known's native comments do actually have permalinks of their own, on a separate page
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kylewm so those might still make sense as h-cite
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk i think we have a set of rules here that can be written up as a how-to now
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aaronpk it's basically a bunch of "if ... then.." depending on whether a) the comment has a permalink of its own, b) you are displaying the full plaintext vs full html vs a truncated version
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ben_thatmustbeme last question, do we need something to contain all the comments section as one. the use case being that it would give the ability to set a u-url for it and thus make webmetion.io and similar offsite comments parsable
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KevinMarks ben_thatmustbeme++
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aaronpk yes, that's p-comment
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 92 karma
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aaronpk all the comments are on the "comment" property
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KevinMarks hm
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ben_thatmustbeme no, aaronpk, the comments themselves are not on the site
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ben_thatmustbeme they are injected
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ben_thatmustbeme wrapping it all would be in the html though
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KevinMarks this is what I was getting at yesterday
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aaronpk mine are not injected, mine live on the site, and there's no way i'm going to move it
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aaronpk but yes for the js-embed use case there should be something for it
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KevinMarks not the point, aaronpk
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aaronpk that's totally separate from the actual markup of the comments, it would still follow the comments-presentation rules
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KevinMarks js-embed is not a reasonabel thing to parse
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KevinMarks an html version is, eitehr rendered from the indejected data or a seprate url
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aaronpk right
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ben_thatmustbeme .p-comments > .p-comment.h-cite > p-content
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aaronpk i'm all for that
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aaronpk wait what
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KevinMarks I was proposing an iframe embed aas an html alternative to js-injection for static sites
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KevinMarks as an iframe src is parsable
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KevinMarks (js-injected iframes are more of a pain)
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ben_thatmustbeme and thus the idea would be if you see .p-comments->.u-url that means the comments are stored on external URL. and you can receive salmentions from sites that use webmention.io
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KevinMarks or webmention.herokuapp.com
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KevinMarks or potentially disqus et al
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ben_thatmustbeme using webmention.io as example, may be any other
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@deanna RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twitter.com/_/status/620274448298573824)
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Zegnat ben_thatmustbeme, wouldn’t that be .u-comments, without a parent element? Or am I forgetting my mf2 parsing rules now
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ben_thatmustbeme nesting that way isn't pretty though, would actually need another h-*
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ben_thatmustbeme Zegnat: just realized that
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ben_thatmustbeme .u-comments or .u-external-comments, or something like that
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rhiaro reads backlong on comments markup, as that's what she's working on right now
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Zegnat .h-entry > .u-comments
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ben_thatmustbeme many sites might have links down to the comments section of their own site too
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rhiaro I started copying what was on comments-presentation
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ben_thatmustbeme u-comments would make sense for that, would be the same URL probably with just a different fragment probably
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rhiaro I'm actually working on a /mentions page, so replies appear there but without the full post they're replying to, ie. not inside a parent h-entry. Does p-comment not make sense in that case?
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rhiaro just h-cite for them all?
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: i was going to ask that with what tantek said about h-entry vs h-cite for comments. but i think its okay to do h-entry there.
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rhiaro but they're still not my content
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kylewm I slightly don't like the idea of differentiating p-comment from p-comments just by a "s"
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rhiaro though it is a feed in its own right..
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aaronpk h-cite for external content is a good plan all the time
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: neither do i
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aaronpk kylewm: i agree, seems too likely to typo or not recognize
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ben_thatmustbeme but couldn't think up anything better
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aaronpk maybe .comments-at along the lines of .in-reply-to ?
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ben_thatmustbeme u-commentary
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rhiaro tantek: why do you use u-author h-card instead of p-author?
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kylewm +1 comments-at
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Schedule (+12) "/* Sunday 2015-07-12 */ starting at 10:30" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: if its only a url, you can just use u-autor
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rhiaro .comments-feed?
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rhiaro But there's still text inside the tag
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ben_thatmustbeme name is implicit
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rhiaro oh
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kylewm wordpress has prior art for a rel= link to an RSS feed for comments, might that be worth exploring?
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tantek u-author is most minimal since the consuming code can go get the name from the h-card at the destination
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aaronpk where's a good place to link the youtube URLs?
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tantek kylewm: what rel value?
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rhiaro tantek: okay, sounds reasonable
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kevinmarks.com created /comment-examples (+825) "gathering comment markup" (view diff)
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KevinMarks OK, who esle
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rhiaro (I had a u-url inside the h-card)
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aaronpk oh that reminds me...
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aaronpk wordpress does this already right?
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kylewm tantek: rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" unfortunately
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: either works
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tantek re: iframe brainstorming - irrelevant until someone is actually using an iframe to embed comments on their live site
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rhiaro yeah, the <a is in a <p so I'm gonna leave it
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tantek kylewm: well that’s not useful for discovery so we can ignore it
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kylewm comments in an iframe -- http://kylewm.github.io/
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kylewm tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 215 karma
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aaronpk lol sorry kylewm beat me to it and i was away for a sec when he mentioned wordpress
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KevinMarks I'm going to embed comments in an iframe today
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KevinMarks who else has actual comment examples
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ben_thatmustbeme mine are similar to tantek's
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KevinMarks url to them plz
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ben_thatmustbeme see source of https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/7/10/1/#comments
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aaronpk KevinMarks: https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/11/1/indiewebcamp
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GWG pfefferle marks up all of my comments, and I've gotten into the p- vs other markup with him.
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kylewm more comments http://acegiak.net/2015/07/03/hug-medic-kale-darkestkale-29/#comments
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chreekat-m Did i miss anything yet? :P I'm on my way now
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+1250) "/* ben.thatmustbe.me */" (view diff)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: more comments <https://snarfed.org/2015-06-04_what-doesnt-kill-my-baby#comments>
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+0) (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+7952) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
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csarven The more I look into mf2, I realize how much of a hackjob it turned out to be.
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ben_thatmustbeme ?
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: maybe take that to #microformats
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csarven I would if iwc didn't hijack the mf process ;)
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gRegorLove Morning, indiewebcamp
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+5092) "/* http://acegiak.net/ */" (view diff)
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kylewm no need to be rude, csarven
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KevinMarks csarven: hack job is your way of saying 'code first, then spec?'
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aaronpk wow my html is messy lol
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aaronpk lots of funny linebreaks and whitespace
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: mine too
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ben_thatmustbeme well, my classes are
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KevinMarks yeah, I'm just doing straight copy paste here
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KevinMarks if someone wants to tidy indents, please do
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KevinMarks also, i may be over grabbing
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KevinMarks eg forms and things
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gRegorLove !tell seekr, KartikPrabhu Yesterday's demos will be put on the wiki eventually at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Demos. Same for today's hack day demos. Yesterday's demos are currently in the IRC logs but will be dumped to that page.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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csarven I've noticed that you guys were discussing where or how to use p-* properly for instance.
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aaronpk some of that was just misunderstanding
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csarven So, p- is for plain text and e- may include elements?
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KevinMarks mf2 is flexible enough to mark things up differently
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GWG So, I have a dilemma for all of you. WordPress requires some sort of title, even if it is auto-generated and not displayed. Trying to figure out what the auto-generated title should be a for a Like.
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gRegorLove p- is a parser directive, to parse the contents as plain text
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csarven Which also means, zillion different ways to parse it.
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KevinMarks e- menas grab html content
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ShaneHudson_ Craft also has the same issue GWG
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gRegorLove No
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gRegorLove The parser directives are pretty concise, in my experience
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csarven gRegorLove Thanks for the clarification.
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: one very clearly spec-ed parsing algorithm
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GWG Last night, I was hooking into the WordPress title generation hooks and trying to decide what I could substitute
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ShaneHudson_ GWG: For my site, I used minutesecond as a title. Felt like an id, without being always unique
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KevinMarks OK, I'm goign to add the webmention.herokuapp.com markup, which is missing mf2
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csarven e.g., p-summary '<p>Ahoy hoy</p>' should return what?
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GWG ShaneHudson_: I tried that. People found it a bit weird because if they saw it...which in some formats they did...
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csarven <div class="p-summary"><p>Ahoy hoy</p></div>
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gRegorLove csarven: You can try dropping HTML into a live parser: http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/?
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KevinMarks nothign as it's not in an h-
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GWG I'm thinking of having it, if there is a title for the thing I'm liking, using that. Example "Liked Pants Article"
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KevinMarks http://www.unmung.com/?html=csarven++%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-example%22%3E%3Cdiv+class%3D%22p-summary%22%3E%3Cp%3EAhoy+hoy%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
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kylewm GWG: that's how I generate slugs
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: beat me to it
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kylewm csarven: seriously questions about how to parse microformats should be in #microformats
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GWG kylewm: My problem now is that, if I'm not entering that data, and I'm pulling it from the URL, that doesn't happen till after the post is created. Which means I have to move that code to earlier in the chain.
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csarven kylewm Certainly. So, the discussion earlier on p-* with ben_thatmustbeme belongs here? (*serious* question)
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: exactly, i was unsure on parsing, should have asked in #microformats
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+3966) "/* webmention.herokuapp */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, that needs newlines
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: can you add rhiaro as a manager for IWC youtube channel for streming of IWC Edin.
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aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk rhiaro: I need your gmail account
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aaronpk oh nvm found it
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aaronpk google+ search
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rhiaro aaronpk: k!
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aaronpk added
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rhiaro It's obvious
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@dissolve333 IndieWebCamp stream while dealing with this (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/1/) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/620283259516157953/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/620283259516157953)
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+24) "/* webmention.herokuapp.com */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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GWG I'm trying to match people with names in the video
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ben_thatmustbeme i think many are not in IRC
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KevinMarks live stream of hacking day is funny
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aaronpk we're about to start intros today
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aaronpk will not be livestreaming on youtube most of today
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GWG Intro away
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aaronpk can someone dig up an example of who is using webmention.herokuapp.com and providing an HTML link to the comments page?
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tantek lacking any examples of that, we don’t need to design markup for it
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tantek all the u-comments, comments-at etc. bikeshedding above
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GWG And the podium is now visible....the excitement is about to begin.
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GWG The crowd is hushed with anticipation
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KevinMarks OK, who else has comment markup?
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KevinMarks aaronpk: working on it
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KevinMarks at the moment it is generated js
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barnabywalters KevinMarks: ! ditto my previous comment in #indiechat
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barnabywalters if so then I have comment markup
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KevinMarks url plz
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GWG aaronpk welcomes everyone to Hack Day and describes the goal of working on your site.
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barnabywalters here’s the latest example from my homepage feed: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4c7J8D/
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GWG aaronpk reviews Indiemark as a way of getting ideas.
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gRegorLove what is indiemark?
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GWG aaronpk suggests the attendees solve one impossible problem before lunch
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Loqi IndieMark is a set of metrics for measuring the indieweb-ness of a site, and a step-by-step approach to incrementally adopting indieweb features on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+91) "/* add deleted template*/" (view diff)
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GWG would like to hear some people talk about what they are planning to try to work on
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GWG 's wish is granted
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+5910) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
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GWG wonders why aaronpk had tacos for breakfast if he's having tacos for lunch.
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barnabywalters GWG: because tacos, obv :)
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GWG tantek covers that your hack can be more theoretical than applied.
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tjgillies_ barnabywalters: Im stoked that taco has it's own emoji now
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barnabywalters tjgillies_: !!
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kylewm not theoretical, just more design/documentation rather than code
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tantek GWG, more like prototyping than theoretical
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tjgillies_ http://www.unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html#1f32e
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tjgillies_ so does burrito
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gRegorLove design-mentation
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+590) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk plans to work on SWAT0 on his site.
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tantek really need a term for the creative act of taking a UI flow, and writing up the series of protocol/formats steps that would implement it
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GWG tantek: Mapping?
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GWG Can someone take a picture of the board to dump into the wiki when complete?
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tantek GWG, someone else said documentation
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tantek I’m looking for a specific term
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GWG I may have to step away
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tantek e.g. we have visual design, UI design, UX flow, coding etc. as creative acts
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+1067) "/* waterpigs.co.uk */ missed most of it" (view diff)
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GWG relinquishes the keyboard
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tjgillies_ Is there a microformats JSON standard?
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kevinmarks.com edited /comment-examples (+0) "reorder" (view diff)
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barnabywalters this evening I’m working on fixing some of the things which have mysteriously stopped working on waterpigs.co.uk (maps and, as of yesterday, twitter POSSE)
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KevinMarks tjgillies_: what do you mean?
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tjgillies_ representing microformats in json documents
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KevinMarks there is a standard JSON output from parsing microfromats
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tjgillies_ I on't have any html on my site its all json responses
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KevinMarks you cna use that
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KevinMarks but an mf2 parser won't parse it
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KevinMarks if you want to actually interoperate, you need to create html
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment-examples (+25) "/* tantek.com */ re-indent" (view diff)
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tjgillies_ I guess thats a good reason to generate html then
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment-examples (-282) "/* ben.thatmustbe.me */ reindent" (view diff)
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aaronpk also you know, so people can read it
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tjgillies_ JSON is readable
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tjgillies_ ;)
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tjgillies_ I could always render my pages in a binary protocol
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment-examples () "(-1197) /* https://aaronparecki.com */ reindent (still a bit messy for some reason)" (view diff)
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tjgillies_ I would argue that json is a lot more readable than some of the websites out there heh
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KevinMarks tjgillies_: it's not really a web page if it's in json
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment-examples (+877) "/* http://acegiak.net/ */ reindent" (view diff)
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tantek “took me 15 min to get my [WordPress] website back up & running with all the indieweb stuff”
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tjgillies_ why not? web is http protocol, json leverages http protocol
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tantek GWG++
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment-examples (+49) "/* webmention.herokuapp.com */ reindent" (view diff)
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Loqi GWG has 103 karma
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kylewm tjgillies_: that's just Sturgeon's law
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tantek JSONlol
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kylewm 90% of everything is crap
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tjgillies_ googles sturgeon's law
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kylewm what is Sturgeon's law?