#indiewebcamp 2015-07-17

2015-07-17 UTC
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@rwentechaney @RafranzDavis @audreywatters (I'm a big fan and proponent of #indieweb.) (twitter.com/_/status/621840565726900225)
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ben_thatmustbeme Oh that's an interesting thread
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tantek wow indeed
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tantek https://medium.com/bright/the-web-we-need-to-give-students-311d97713713?source=tw-lo_1a66a1f7952-1437090573393
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tantek https://twitter.com/RafranzDavis/status/621829232193241088
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@RafranzDavis Goal: Find a way to do this for our kids! "The Web We Need to Give Students” by @audreywatters https://medium.com/bright/the-web-we-need-to-give-students-311d97713713?source=tw-lo_1a66a1f7952-1437090573393 (twitter.com/_/status/621829232193241088)
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@rwentechaney @budtheteacher @audreywatters @bcrosby @funnymonkey @RafranzDavis + LMS, etc to #indieweb model. Ownership, stewardship by student. (twitter.com/_/status/621849460474163200)
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@budtheteacher @audreywatters @rwentechaney @benwerd Wondering hard about indieweb at the library. (twitter.com/_/status/621850175967883264)
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@funnymonkey RT @rwentechaney: @budtheteacher @audreywatters @bcrosby @funnymonkey @RafranzDavis + LMS, etc to #indieweb model. Ownership, stewardship b… (twitter.com/_/status/621852707343601665)
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aaronpk is testing person tagging on twitter
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aaronpk apparently you can't tag people who aren't following you
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aaronpk and that list is apparently cached for a long time
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:twitter-person-tag-in-stream.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:twitter-person-tag-permalink.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /person-tag (+183) "/* Silo Examples */ add twitter screenshots" (view diff)
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aaronpk now I support person-tagging
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kylewm aaronpk: what's going on here, https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/15/1/indiewebcamp
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kylewm there is a banner at the top? and the View on Instagram link is 404ed
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aaronpk What do you mean?
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gRegorLove The red text?
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kylewm yeah, what's up with the red text
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aaronpk I had extra space to fill on Instagram since it only does square photos
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kylewm ok okay
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kylewm anyway, curious to see how you do person tagging
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aaronpk I'm doing it basically like Twitter
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kylewm i'm just not really sure to do cause normally with tags i link to a list of all the posts on my site that have that tag
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kylewm but person tags, maybe i should link to their site instad
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kylewm not sure
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kylewm not really sure what* to do
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aaronpk document what silos do!
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aaronpk flickr links to a page showing all photos by that person with the tag
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kylewm ah, good point
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aaronpk twitter links to the person's account
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GWG I want to write a function to determine type based on incoming data in Micropub. Anyone have anything like that?
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KartikPrabhu hfeed2atom improvements! now converts aaronpk's homepage successfully (sort of!) :)
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KartikPrabhu coming up support for author in feed and better hentry parsing
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KartikPrabhu author as in using representative hcard stuff.
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KartikPrabhu !tantek why does your homepage have h-feed as child of h-card... ?
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek why does your homepage have h-feed as child of h-card... ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KevinMarks__ Iirc that was because Tantek saw his site as primarily about him, not his posts
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KartikPrabhu it makes no sense as a data-structure
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KartikPrabhu also given a microformats object how deep is one supposed to look for an h-feed?
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@jarofgreen @cleverfrances Hi @hazelh says you'll be interested in http://opentechcalendar.co.uk/event/2777-indiewebcamp-edinburgh #edcm (twitter.com/_/status/621947157361389568)
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Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/r/donovanpreston-easier-than-ever-eyecandy linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@jdaviescoates RT @bhenick: Antipodean, spent yrs in prison, yet I totally agree with him: https://medium.com/matter/the-web-we-have-to-save-2eb1fe15a426 #indieweb //cc @mollydotcom @h0d3r (twitter.com/_/status/621998305858326528)
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voxpelli if any other node.js devs in the indieweb community wants to discuss collaboration around micropub, then join: https://github.com/bcomnes/gitpub/issues/5
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voxpelli just finished documenting my micropub related modules with proper readmes to aid in that
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GWG Good morning, all
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voxpelli Good morning GWG!
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GWG Good morning, voxpelli.
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GWG I'm planning out a long boring function of conditionals that takes the elements sent in by Micropub and decides what post type it is.
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voxpelli Been doing somewhat the same
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voxpelli GWG: Only have https://github.com/voxpelli/node-format-microformat/blob/master/index.js#L92-97 thus far though
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GWG I just finished sending a post using aaronpk's teacup.
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GWG My test site ate some macaroni
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voxpelli Ensuring that my Micropub endpoint can handle JSON and Multipart payloads now
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GWG Haven't gotten to JSON yet.
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Loqi [bridgy] Zack Weston RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-15-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/106407686370243#120509071622267)
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GWG Good morning, pfefferle
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pfefferle  hey, good morning GWG
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GWG pfefferle: Haven't seen you around in a while.
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pfefferle GWG lot to do with a little son ;)
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pfefferle GWG and still trying to get my local notifications to work, to test your pull request
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GWG pfefferle: I set up an email server on my local machine to do that.
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pfefferle GWG I tried it with postfix without luck
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GWG Right now, I am working on pull requests for the Micropub plugin
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GWG I figured I would give you a break in favor of snarfed
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pfefferle GWG :D
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GWG I also sent an update to the IndieWeb plugin
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pfefferle GWG you are a really good soul!
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pfefferle GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 105 karma
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pfefferle GWG have you commited it to github?
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pfefferle GWG I see no changes at the indie-web plugin
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voxpelli pfefferle: regarding testing emails with PHP – tried something like the following? https://github.com/goodold/goodold-bin/blob/master/php-sendmail Or eg: https://github.com/goodold/goodold-bin/blob/master/php-sendmail-error-log
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voxpelli I usually use something like that to ensure that no local emails can ever each outside of my local box
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pfefferle voxpelli oh thanks, will have a look at it later
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GWG pfefferle: I updated the version of tgm. Maybe I forgot to push
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GWG The new update allows for updates
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pfefferle GWG you do ;)
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pfefferle can you also update the WP.org version
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GWG I've never tried, but will try
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GWG I saw tgm had been updated and really thought people would want upgrade support in the IndieWeb installer
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GWG Hmm...I forgot to push
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GWG There, pushed
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GWG pfefferle: As for pushing to .org, I don't have the build setup for that. Will work on that over the weekend.
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pfefferle GWG build setup?
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GWG pfefferle: SVN
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pfefferle GWG ah :)
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GWG pfefferle: It's a few minutes to get the directory structure set up.
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GWG pfefferle: I want to finish the Micropub thing first. But I just pushed the update to github I forgot to for Indieweb.
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pfefferle GWG ok, curious about the micropub changes
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GWG pfefferle: A few things. Query support is in for syndication targets. It doesn't hook up to anything though. That would be up to whoever writes syndication code
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GWG It now stores all variables instead of an arbitrary list.
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GWG Which is in line with the spec.
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GWG If there is a summary and no content, it sets the content to the summary provided.
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GWG There is a hidden flag to set all Micropub posts to draft mode. I mostly put it in for debugging.
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GWG It supports auth and token endpoints other than Indieauth with a setting in wp-config if anyone ever has one they want to point it at.
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GWG Next, I want to write a function to determine implied post type by what is being sent in, and set the Post Format and/or Post Kind, as applicable.
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pfefferle GWG ok
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Loqi slack/snarfed: GWG: exciting, sounds like you already have a lot done!
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Loqi slack/snarfed: maybe send a PR soon with what you have now? multiple small PRs are generally better than one big one
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GWG snarfed: My changes overall are surprisingly small. But I will send one within the day
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GWG Let me do a PR before I go to the implied post types issue.
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GWG Will work on that today
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GWG To be honest, more of my time was spent testing.
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ben_thatmustbeme woo, simplified my templating
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ben_thatmustbeme much less redundancy
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GWG Oh?
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ben_thatmustbeme i may end up following in aaronpk's footsteps and removing post type from my urls too, just to simplify routing
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GWG Probably a good move
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GWG I have a URL for pulling all entries of the same type, but it isn't in my usual permalink
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, just have subtemplates now for each post type so I don't keep getting issues with missing a tag in various duplicated things
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ben_thatmustbeme all the context and comments will all be the same, so all those are in a single template rather than tons
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ben_thatmustbeme i have that too
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ben_thatmustbeme i may just do something to figure out the type from the URL too to simplify my routing
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GWG These are php templates?
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kylewm https://twitter.com/hmans/status/622036082322997248
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@hmans I'm sorry to announce that I have ended work on Pants. http://hmans.io/cbh414 (twitter.com/_/status/622036082322997248)
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, yes
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voxpelli JSON and Multipart support fixed in my Micropub endpoint I think
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voxpelli Next step: Actually publish the files to a GitHub repo and try it with OwnYourGram
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voxpelli Too bad one can't stream an upload to GitHub over their API but rather have to keep the file in memory and include it base64 encoded in a JSON object
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voxpelli Not the most efficient use of memory :/
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Loqi [mention] Nicolas Cluzeau posted 'Je teste la publication avec « micropub« ' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub (https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub)
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Loqi [mention] https://mabulledu.net/11930/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub (webmention)
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: I just got a bunch of new weird permalinks from your site
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ben_thatmustbeme eh?
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kylewm like https://ben.thatmustbe.me/?year=2015&month=7&day=12&daycount=4
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kylewm all of your posts just popped back to the top in Woodwind because it thinks they are new urls :p
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ben_thatmustbeme crap
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ben_thatmustbeme routing changes broke things
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk voxpelli: wow the github api requires uploading files via base64 encoded json requests?
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voxpelli aaronpk: yes, very strange
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aaronpk see this is the exact thing I want to avoid with micropub :)
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voxpelli Or well, the json isn't encoded, just the content of files one uploads within them
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aaronpk sorry that was my bad hyphenation
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aaronpk "base64-encoded files in json requests"
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voxpelli aaronpk: how big are the files from ownyourgram typically?
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aaronpk good question
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aaronpk i can check some of mine
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aaronpk it may also send videos btw
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voxpelli Yeah, that's what I worry mostly about ;)
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aaronpk the videos i've gotten from it range from 1-5mb
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aaronpk photos are usually 50k-500k
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voxpelli that should be manageable, just have to ensure the concurrency doesn't make it go above the memory limit
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, yeah definitely doesn't like the routing on me
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aaronpk i wouldn't worry about it
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning aaronpk
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk argh Jeena I can't tell what day your article was written because it just says "posted 5 days ago"
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aaronpk relativedates--
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Loqi relativedates has -1 karma
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+235) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme just undid my routing changes for now.
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aaronpk hm when I change my URLs how should I make sure this doesn't happen to me?
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i always forget about caching, so it all looked good, but then the cached stuff expired and it went bad
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ben_thatmustbeme but no matter what, everything will get confused
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aaronpk i'm going to be returning permanent redirects for my old URLs, maybe that will help?
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ben_thatmustbeme it should help for things like bridgy i would assume
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ben_thatmustbeme woodwind will freak a little
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ben_thatmustbeme temporarily
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kylewm bridgy will send duplicates too for a certain number of posts
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kylewm you are probably already doing enough de-duplicating to catch it though
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bret we should try to get https://www.readability.com/developers/guidelines to update their guide
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Loqi definitely
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bret but also, a great way teach mf2
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bret err mf in this case, but could work for mf2
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aaronpk so here is my first person-tagged photo! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/15/1/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk (manually added those tags, not from ownyourgram)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk++ nicely done
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Loqi aaronpk has 893 karma
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aaronpk i went back and forth on whether to show the little person icon next to each URL
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aaronpk also I plan on using my nicknames cache to display the person's name
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aaronpk but it was easier to not do that just yet :)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i do the person's name
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ben_thatmustbeme i like the person icon
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aaronpk my first version had the person icon on the left, but not before each person
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aaronpk so more like the location icon
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, maybe i should link to the parson as well, currently i was trying to make it possible to look up all tags of a person on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme just like a category
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ben_thatmustbeme but it has problems
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Zegnat aaronpk, did you consider using people’s u-photo instead of the generic person icon?
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aaronpk I did, but I don't think it would look very good since I want to display it so small
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ben_thatmustbeme it would look similar to signatures on the wiki
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ben_thatmustbeme they are small but not too small
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aaronpk right now the person icon is smaller than that
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ben_thatmustbeme ah
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aaronpk also most of the time the person tagged will be in the photo, so I don't really need to display another picture of them
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ben_thatmustbeme true
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aaronpk worth noting that flickr does show the person's photo though
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csarven So, this micropub thingy, is that like CRUDing your own posts?
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aaronpk yes
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csarven Is there any commonality between Webmention and Micropub?
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aaronpk not really
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csarven Other than using HTTP POST I presume.
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aaronpk they are for completely different things
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csarven Yes, their purpose is different, but that wasn't my question.
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csarven Looking over this micropub ATM
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csarven And that there is some dependency on mf2 I take it?
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ben_thatmustbeme no
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aaronpk kind of
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aaronpk the vocabulary all comes from microformats2 vocabulary
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csarven "Creating objects"
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ben_thatmustbeme its structured in the same way, it does use mf2 vocabulary yes
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csarven So... in order for me to post some stuff on my own website, I'll have to go through IndieAuth (which is usually/typically, but not necessarily always, based on third-party handshake)?
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aaronpk yes, you need to get an access token
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csarven hehe
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rhiaro You could do it with like, OpenID or something else though, right?
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aaronpk micropub doesn't care *how* you get the access token, it just requires an access token
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aaronpk you can do password login if you really want
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csarven Then IndieAuth is only one method.
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aaronpk generic micropub clients all implement indieauth (which is basically oauth 2.0 plus identity)
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aaronpk so if you're using Quill for example, you need to advertise your authorization endpoint and token endpoint
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aaronpk it is conceivable that someone could write a micropub client and server that handles auth a totally different way, but it wouldn't work with any other clients/servers
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csarven What would be the difference between "micro"pub and say a "macro"pub? What makes "micro" micro?
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aaronpk lol
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ben_thatmustbeme a rose by any other name?
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aaronpk the name came from the fact that it's the inverse of microformats
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aaronpk microformats for reading, micropub for writing
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csarven Okie dokie
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aaronpk it's also supposed to be very minimal and easy to implement
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csarven I find it quite hacky so far.
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csarven Like Webmention
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-53) "/* Introduction */" (view diff)
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aaronpk the whole internet is hacky
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csarven I agree, but it doesn't justify :)
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aaronpk if you have an issue with a specific part of the spec feel free to discuss it
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aaronpk but "i find it quite hacky" is not constructive criticism
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csarven I discuss, you create a wiki entry in a rush to close the discussion - sweeping things under the carpet, whistle and walk away?
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csarven I'll think about it :)
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aaronpk i create a wiki entry to capture the question and answer because chances are other people will have teh same question later
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aaronpk documentation++
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Loqi documentation has 2 karma
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+140) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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csarven I've highlighted issues and offered alternatives. Have you documented that as well?
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aaronpk are you talking about the issues with webmention?
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csarven Suggestions/Proposal to improve a) simplify or b) be more explicit. The documentation you've come up with is handwaving at best.
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aaronpk if you feel like http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Why_is_the_target_URL_a_required_parameter does not capture your issues, you can edit it or add a new entry under "Issues" on that page
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aaronpk I don't agree that my explanation is handwavy
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gRegorLove How is it handwaving, given the number of implementations where webmention is working?
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csarven If "working" is the bar you set yourself, carry on.
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gRegorLove I don't understand the problem that you're seeing / trying to solve by removing the target parameter, I guess.
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gRegorLove (if I've understood the discussion correctly)
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aaronpk if you really think you have a better idea of how it should work, you should implement it that way and ask someone to send you a webmention with your alternate spec
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csarven I'll write it up.. because then maybe it has more validity as it ends up in an URL or something.
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csarven Or.. I could paste a bunch of IRC log URLs too.. if that suffice?
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csarven So, what's the IWC thing here.. Wiki URL > IRC URL?
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aaronpk but seriously, criticism that is not based on implementation experience is not going to go a long way
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gRegorLove csarven: If you want to link me to a log that will help me understand better, that's great. Or on the wiki, whichever. I thought I saw most of the conversation, but might have missed something.
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aaronpk typically discussion here goes from IRC to the wiki, so yes wiki URL > IRC URL
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+167) "/* Goals */" (view diff)
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@iamjohnellison Just got my new @withknown blog setup with #SSL. Cheers @indiewebcamp for the inspiration! (twitter.com/_/status/622092325171372032)
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gRegorLove Feels good to move things from the to-do list to the completed list.
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aaronpk nice
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+1) "/* Goals */" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk, what is p3k-type?
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aaronpk a horrible mess
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aaronpk it's supposed to indicate whether it's food or drink
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aaronpk i should have called it p3k-food-type probably. or sent the value in p3k-food or p3k-drink appropriately
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Loqi yea!
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gregorlove.com edited /Pants (+156) "suspended development" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Pants (-11) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Pants (+38) "/* Code */" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: I thought it might be like ben_thatmustbeme and his mp-type
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aaronpk nope
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GWG aaronpk: I think I will leave it alone then, but changing the Micropub plugin to save the summary as the content if no content is provided means that Teacup will display something useful
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aaronpk great! that's why it sends summary :)
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GWG I am not sure if I want to track food, but I wanted to test the plugin with as many clients as possible
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@closetgeekshow I think a lot about IndieWeb, Tilde Club and what might replace reddit. I feel like there needs to be a social network for 90s kids. (twitter.com/_/status/622097349641244672)
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aaronpk omg adactio made an SMS interface for posting to his site! https://adactio.com/journal/9261
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+88) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Nucleus (+29) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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bret "Have you published a response to this? Let me know the URL:" is a great web mention pattern
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ben_thatmustbeme oh yeah, i saw him mention something about that
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bret thats cool addacto is great
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aaronpk bret: yep! I added that to my site after I saw his
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bret great UK turnout!
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gregorlove.com edited /ProcessWire (-132) (view diff)
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adactio aaronpk: I'm having an issue with OwnYourGram—it seems to have stopped posting (after an error trying to post something yesterday). Is there any way I can give it a kick from my end?
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Loqi [bridgy] adorably aggressive favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/myfreeweb/status/621823448218796032)
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aaronpk adactio: uhoh.. i just launched a change yesterday
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aaronpk is it not posting at all, or are you getting empty requests?
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Loqi [bridgy] adorably aggressive replied '@myfreeweb @jurph even that isn't really true. there's still hosting providers.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/randileeharper/status/621824080195379200)
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aaronpk oh dear i see the problem
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aaronpk hm i need a spampk account for testing instagram
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adactio It's not posting at all right now. I did the make the change for switching categories over to an array rather than a string (but I did that after the problem first occurred).
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adactio aaronpk: I'm happy to use my site as a guinea pig if you need me to test anything.
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aaronpk k i think it's back
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aaronpk weird combination of glitches trying to launch that change yesterday
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aaronpk i had changed it to make my code build the multipart request instead of letting the curl library do it, because the curl library can't handle array values in multipart. but then I was sending base64 content instead of binary content in the request, so your micropub endpoint was failing trying to understand a string as an image
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aaronpk anyway now it's sending it as binary multipart again
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adactio aaronpk: SUCCESS!! https://adactio.com/notes/9287
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adactio aaronpk: Thank you muchly!
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aaronpk wooo
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KevinMarks_ reads scrollback
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KevinMarks_ aaronpk_: the 'showing the person's face in the preson tag' thing - are you doing rectangles around faces too?
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aaronpk not yet
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KevinMarks_ 'cos then you could display that bit of the image next to them…
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KevinMarks_ (ok, slightly crazy idea)
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KevinMarks_ csarven: did you miss the key reason for sending the URL? that an endpoint may support multiple domains. That is a concrtete issue based on implementations
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KevinMarks_ you saying 'you can do without it ' is handwaving
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: haha that'd be hilarious
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tantek certainly without *having implemented the functionality without it*, the phrase "you can do without it" is handwaving
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 11 hours, 49 minutes ago: why does your homepage have h-feed as child of h-card... ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-16/line/1437115798399
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csarven KevinMarks Would you mind pointing me at the URI that says that a Webmention may support multiple domains? I may have missed that.
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tantek hmm I think that's an FAQ KartikPrabhu ;) I believe barnabywalters asked first, then more recently I think aaronpk asked
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KevinMarks_ a webmention *endpoint* may support multiple domains
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tantek csarven lots of them. e.g. webmention.io
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KevinMarks_ eg webmention.herokuapp.com
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csarven "Webmention is a simple way to automatically notify any URL when you link to it on your site. From the receivers perpective, it's a way to request notification when other sites link to it." -- I'm not sure if that's implied in there.
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tantek deployed, live, in use etc.
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tantek csarven, are you nitpicking for details in a summary?
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tantek that's a form of intentional misunderstanding that I think needs a name.
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KevinMarks_ http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#a%20webmention%20endpoint%20may%20handle%20multiple%20possible%20target%20sites
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csarven I'm asking for clarification. If the doc doesn't have the info, perhaps it should be mentioned?
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csarven you typically tell people to add it as an FAQ. There is your chance.
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KevinMarks_ or perhaps you could read the doc
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tantek you didn't quote the (whole) doc, you quoted the summary. to assert "doesn't have the info" leaping from the summary is a strawman
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csarven Dude, I've asked you kindly to point me at it. Your "RTFM" is what now?
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KevinMarks_ see fragmention libnk above
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csarven tantek++
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csarven KevinMarks++
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Loqi tantek has 220 karma
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Loqi KevinMarks has 131 karma
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csarven KUTGW
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adactio tantek: yours isn't the only site with h-feed as a child of h-card. See also: http://www.lottejackson.com/
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JonathanNeal good old fragmentioning
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tantek csarven - you're the only one that's had this confusion so far, thus not an *F*AQ yet.
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csarven Really? "if they ask, others might as well..."?
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tantek and based on the use of strawman technique in your argument, there's not much motivation to help
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csarven Okie dokie
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csarven Thanks for your feedback.
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csarven KevinMarks That URI is not pointing to air.
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csarven s/not//
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Loqi csarven meant to say: KevinMarks That URI is  pointing to air.
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KevinMarks_ hm, did fragmention support for the wiki get broken?
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KevinMarks_ I have the chrome plugin running so it works everywhere fro me
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csarven I'm on Ubuntu. Checked with Firefox and Chromium. No go.
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KevinMarks_ oh, the wiki only supports the old ## syntax http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention##a%20webmention%20endpoint%20may%20handle%20multiple%20possible%20target%20sites
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csarven Ok, thanks.
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csarven So, that's basically added by aaronpk when we discussed the first time. It didn't not exist before ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, that would be how wikis work
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KevinMarks_ yes, you asked a question, we considered it and updated the documentation to clarify
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csarven facepalms
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csarven KUTGW
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KevinMarks_ we're here to build protocols that interoperate; are you here to win debate points or something?
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gRegorLove What's KUTGW?
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ben_thatmustbeme "keep up the good work"
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csarven KevinMarks Is that your assumption?
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ben_thatmustbeme had to look it up myself
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csarven You vs. Us?
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csarven I've raised a legitimate question, why do you feel defensive?
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tantek csarven - it's a reasonable conclusion from the majority of your statements in IRC being nitpicky/argumentative about theoreticals rather than about things you're live implementing on your site.
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tantek if that's not the case (you are live implementing on your site and getting stuck), please say so!
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csarven It wasn't exactly "public" knowledge. It got documented. The wiki improved. Why do you feel the need to push that as if you are superior? heh
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KevinMarks_ which You is that now? that same you as this? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437152802220
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ben_thatmustbeme well, the wiki links to existing implementations and services that work cross domain. the wiki doesn't say it only works for one domain either
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tantek csarven, let's try to take this in a more productive direction - what's the very next piece of user-level functionality you want to add to your personal site?
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gRegorLove I appreciated the question - haven't seen anyone ask why the 'target' parameter is needed. I think it was captured well on the wiki, too. Are there more questions about it?
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aaronpk gRegorLove: I am in the same boat. glad to have the question asked, now it's documented. not sure why this needed to come up again today
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, it did make for some interesting points about webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme never thought to ask that
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csarven gRegorLove That was my first concern. I have also proposed an extension which has to do with actually being more explicit about the webmention by providing a "property" name/URL.
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gRegorLove Extensions are cool. /vouch came about that way.
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csarven I will in fact do the extension myself.
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tantek csarven, why not implement the core *before* proposing an extension?
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gRegorLove Cool!
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csarven Because it is friggin' trivial?
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gRegorLove csarven++
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Loqi csarven has 11 karma
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tantek if it's so trivial, then ship it
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tantek if you can't just ship it on your personal site, then your statement that it's trivial is false
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csarven Are you going to give me a deadline or should I go on with my own pace?
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tantek up to you and your definition of trivial
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KevinMarks_ trivial implementation is a design goal here. Adding untested extensions to the spec undermines that
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tantek KevinMarks, more to the point, proposing extensions without first implementing the core is daft.
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tantek especially when there's widespread evidence (shipping live interop) that the core is sufficient
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csarven The current spec is a hack :) But whatever, no need to dwell into that further.
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KevinMarks_ that reminds me, I need to make my hovercards hover
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tantek hopes he's using the word "daft" correctly. :)
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csarven tantek of course the core is sufficient. and of course as raised before it will "work"
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tantek nope, it *does* work
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aaronpk csarven: there you go again with the non-constructive criticism
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gRegorLove Why the scare quotes?
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tantek csarven - do you have aesthetic concerns about the spec by the phrase "is a hack"?
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ben_thatmustbeme what are scare quotes?
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Loqi Scare Quotes are quotation marks used for emphasis, often by people who doesn't understand how to bold or italicize text https://indiewebcamp.com/Scare_Quotes
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csarven Hmm, does _this_ emphasize or /this/ ?
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csarven Not for me.. either way.
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ben_thatmustbeme that was a question to see definition
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gRegorLove I wasn't sure if you were emphasizing, or trying to say "it doesn't really work"
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tantek csarven, to the hypermedia experts of the late 1980s, HTML was "a hack". Clearly the experts were right :)
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ben_thatmustbeme not intended to insult. that doesn't apply here since you can't bold or italicize
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csarven I was quoting from earlier actually.
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csarven A real quote
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tantek consider that "is a hack" may be a good thing
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme I didn't take it as an insult.
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KevinMarks_ see definition 2 here: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hack.html
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tantek csarven, let's try to take this in a more productive direction, again, what's the very next piece of **user-level functionality** you want to add to your personal site?
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: that definition on the wiki is a bit condescending
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csarven tantek Do you think anything is a hack? Or is that term reserved for the few?
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csarven tantek I will probably do Webmention. It seems like the hip thing to do.
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tantek csarven, my opinion of what is / isn't a hack is irrelevant to the discussion, you are deflecting.
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csarven I will do it with the extension I have in mind.
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csarven If people find it fancy, great. If not.. that's oka ytoo
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csarven No loss
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tantek csarven, note my emphasis on **user-level functionality**. Webmention is a protocol.
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tantek csarven, do you understand the difference between user interface and plumbing?
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csarven How is that relevant to this discussion?
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csarven No, but I'm sure you have a wiki URL for me.
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tantek I asked you for "user-level functionality" you replied with a protocol. I pointed out they are different.
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tantek ah ok
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tantek what is plumbing?
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Loqi Plumbing in the context of the IndieWeb, refers to all the underlying code, backend setup, protocols, formats that is all merely there to support the design and user experience of a site, the actual user visible and interactive parts https://indiewebcamp.com/plumbing
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csarven what is tantek?
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Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla https://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
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tantek csarven, what's the very next piece of **user-level functionality** you want to add to your personal site?
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csarven Possibly CRUDing annotations.
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tantek any annotations in particular?
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tantek what is an annotation?
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csarven wonders if he gave the wrong answer.
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Loqi Annotations are comments (including marginalia), highlights or any other interactions that add to (part of) a post, typically added by individuals other than the author https://indiewebcamp.com/annotation
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csarven Should my response be based on IWC/annotation or can I be freestyle?
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tantek cool - UI to CRUD annotations is a good itch to scratch and goal - go ahead and add it to the top of your http://indiewebcamp.com/user:csarven.ca#Working_On
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tantek is there something you find lacking or confusing about /annotation ?
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tantek if it helps, most seem to start with implementing /reply posts
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tantek and then move on to /like and /repost posts - though others have done /bookmark posts instead as well
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csarven I would say any reply/comment/note/mark on some existing text.
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tantek are there other types of annotations you're more interested in?
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tantek in that regard, "reply/comment/note" are the same thing, just /reply
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csarven More than what I've listed? Not at the moment. I have to see how far above gets me.
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tantek what do you mean by "mark"?
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csarven Like highlighting
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csarven All of the annotations would have an @id
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tantek a-ha, fascinating - I don't think anyone has implemented that style of annotation yet here
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tantek however I'm sure it could be built similarly to /reply or /like
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tantek or more precisely, as a variant of /marginalia
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KevinMarks_ if you want to highlight part of a post, http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention can be helpful
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csarven Not sure if there is a better term for it, but if a user finds a sentence or paragraph (which doesnt already have an @id) it might be worthwhile.
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tantek I'd say focus on getting just /reply posting working
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ben_thatmustbeme i was just about to mention fragmention
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tantek csarven - don't jump to plumbing (@id) so prematurely
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tantek we've solved the problem of referring to a specific selection of text with /fragmention already
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GWG Someday, the answer to What is Tantek will be... "Tantek is the name of our wiki, which developed a mind of its own after repeated brain dumps from tantek."
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tantek if you implement your own /reply posts where your in-reply-to URL can be any URL including a URL with a fragmention, then you'll be well on your way to implementing both /reply posts on any post or text thereof
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csarven Same problem as I see it. One of which has a body text, the other doesn't
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tantek and then you can start asking about how to design highlighting of fragmentions
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tantek csarven - that's plumbing-centric thinking. from a UI perspective, they're very different, and the user does very different things (enter text comment, vs. specify perhaps a highlight color)
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csarven Do you guys do Webmention + highlighting type of thing?
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tantek what is highlighting?
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csarven s/guys/guys and girls
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Loqi csarven meant to say: Do you guys and girls do Webmention + highlighting type of thing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "highlighting" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=highlighting&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-17%2Fline%2F1437160251111
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tantek csarven++ for being more inclusive
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Loqi csarven has 12 karma
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csarven Along the lines of <mark>
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tantek csarven, do you have any real world publishing examples of <mark> on your own site?
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csarven No.
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csarven Not that I recall.
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csarven Only plain ol' comments.
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gRegorLove What is highlight?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/highlight
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tantek ok, then it's reasonable to implement those first
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csarven Which gets added to my own DB
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loqi.me created /highlighting (+22) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437160251111 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorlove wow that's an unsatisfying borderline-plumbing-specific definition
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gRegorLove You only have yourself to blame. ;)
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tantek blames self for the dfn
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csarven Confusing :)
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tantek yeah I was just noticing that
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tantek ok time to clean up my mess
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aaronpk considers adding a !blame command to Loqi which digs up the original author of a page
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Loqi dude
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gRegorLove Hehe
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csarven I would think of a mark/annotation would be an h-entry with its own permalink
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csarven in-reply-to some fragment
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aaronpk perfect!
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gRegorLove /highlight needs a period for Loqi to pick up the dfn too
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KevinMarks_ yes, csarven, exactly
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KevinMarks_ the fragmention nuance is that you can reply to an arbitrary string in the page, not just a pre-created id
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csarven Does that approach require JS?
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csarven Or some weird CSS... which I can't think of at the moment.
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aaronpk I include a lot of these "highlights" or blockquotes on my bookmarks, should I be linking to a fragmention instead of the post permalink? e.g. http://aaron.pk/b4cB1
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csarven has to attend real-life. thanks for the feedback
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KevinMarks_ I have done some like that
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aaronpk some of them are quite long http://aaron.pk/b4cA1
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KevinMarks_ I need to replace SavePublishing with a plugin that does this
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snarfed !tell barnabywalters hi! just fyi, your webmention endpoint is 500ing: https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1437157107&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lySQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIjt0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2MjE3OTEyMDg1MDgxMjkyODFfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzQ5NzAxMww
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed wow, the w3.org RDF validator is 500ing too: https://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/
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snarfed (found via https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1437158158&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2MjE3MzY2NTExMDMwNDM1ODQM )
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/619339719269179392
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@kevinmarks “I’ve never once seen a distributed system whose latency followed a bell curve.” http://t.co/9h95C7BYoM. (twitter.com/_/status/619339719269179392)
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KevinMarks_ t.co encapsulates fragmentions
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KevinMarks_ also, there's my 'fragmention to quote' munger
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KevinMarks_ http://www.unmung.com/?rawtext=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.somethingsimilar.com%2F2013%2F01%2F14%2Fnotes-on-distributed-systems-for-young-bloods%2F%23I%25E2%2580%2599ve%2520never%2520once%2520seen%2520a%2520distributed%2520system%2520whose%2520latency%2520followed%2520a%2520bell%2520curve&maxurllength=0&embed=on
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gRegorLove Hmm, my webmention endpoint is showing 400 None in bridgy logs. https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1437099876&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTAsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIj50YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2MTc1MjUwNjk4NDIwMDE5MjBfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzM3MzA1MzA2NAw
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gRegorLove Wait, that's my end...
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snarfed heh yes
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snarfed bridgy logs ftw or ftl…not sure which yet :P
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gRegorLove too strict a comparison on the hostname. :)
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gRegorLove my own weird capitalization bit me, heh
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tantek.com edited /highlight (+1499) "rewrite dfn to focus on ux, expand with possibilities, why, how to, indieweb examples (none), silo (none), brainstorming, see also" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek finds everyone's unicode bugs, gRegorLove finds everyone's case sensitivity bugs :P
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snarfed even his own
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gRegorLove And backtick bugs
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snarfed gRegorLove++ has a budding career in QA if he ever wants it
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Loqi gRegorLove has 19 karma
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gRegorLove haha
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tantek scrolls up to see what he missed while expanding the /highlight page
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aaronpk whoa IRC just lagged and i got a bunch of messages all at once
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gRegorLove snarfed: I made a fix and clicked 'retry' from the bridgy logs. Seems to have worked, though bridgy still shows it "failed" when it put it at the to of the list
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gRegorLove The log indicates success too https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1437161370&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTAsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIj50YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2MjE3MjIzMDY1NjIyOTM3NjBfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzcxODcxMzQ3NAw
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tantek domain names are case-insensitive
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gRegorLove Yeah, I fixed the bug in my code.
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snarfed gRegorLove: great! looks like it doesn't have the error icon any more now: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/gRegorLove#responses
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snarfed glad i put in that feature to expedite retry clicks
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kylewm snarfed: I noticed the RDF validator was returning 500 last week too...
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gRegorLove snarfed: Nevermind. Appears the status displayed doesn't update right away. On refresh it showed "Sent"
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kylewm so it's not new
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tantek aaronpk: re: http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2015/07/15/1/twitter-culture-web - the question is one of intent / why you posted that. did you mean to bookmark the whole article, with the quote just to remind you why? or did you mean to specifically emphasize that quote, and thus it's more of a /quotation post?
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snarfed gRegorLove: oh yeah there's very little ajax in bridgy's ui
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gRegorLove snarfed++ for the retry button
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Loqi snarfed has 116 karma
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk tantek: i think that one in particular is more of a quotation post
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tantek aaronpk, in that case, yes, a fragmention is a good way to link to the specific quotation in the context of the original post!
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aaronpk this one is to remind me why i bookmarked it http://aaron.pk/b4bg1
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tantek as I think rhiaro pointed out before (months ago?) this may be a good example of why /reaction posts may need explicit typing, since they're often generated by a specific UI button ( /webaction ) and might have no other specific properties to indicate their "type", unless we (continue) do so in the u-* property, e.g. by using a u-quotation-of, or u-highlight-of
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tantek continuing to add u-*-of properties is not a bad approach btw, because it ties the explicit typing to effectively a link relation
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tantek does anyone actually post explicit /quotation posts?
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ben_thatmustbeme considers u-dislike-of now
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KevinMarks_ see votelinks
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tantek or are all existing indieweb examples other post types that are implicitly quotations as determined by human inspection or human to human querying?
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KevinMarks_ hm, is h-cite the quotation model?
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tantek you mean markup?
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tantek or rather, what do you mean by model?
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tantek views source on aaronpk's examples.
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aaronpk uhoh :)
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tantek hmm, p-bookmark-of h-cite should like be u-bookmark-of h-cite
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tantek adding to wiki
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tantek e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/06/11/1/
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aaronpk oh yeah that'll be good
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aaronpk we still need to update the php parser for that
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ben_thatmustbeme somewhat wants to tackle the php parser
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ben_thatmustbeme but not top priority for me
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tantek is there a github issue filed for that on phpmf2?
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+331) "note use of blockquote markup, suggest u-quotation-of h-cite" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: no
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tantek !tell csarven thanks for asking / noting about "highlight" posts. I've updated the /highlight page with more description and some brainstorming, both along the lines of what it sounded like you were intending in the chat earlier. Please review! https://indiewebcamp.com/highlight
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu as our leading /marginalia expert and implementer, could you also review my expansion of https://indiewebcamp.com/highlight to see if it fits use-cases you are / were / may be thinking about to enable others to highlight content in your posts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Are you referring to the php-mf2 parser using the name of nested h-* for the 'value'?
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kylewm using the simple parsed value, whether it be p-* or u-*
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tantek gRegorLove: that's correct behavior for a "p-* h-*", however, it should use the "url" of the nested h-* for the 'value' of a "u-* h-*"
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gRegorLove It's on my list to work on that.
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tantek great! can you file it as a quick github issue so we can track it / comment?
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gRegorLove looks in #microformats log for the chat to add a GH issue
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing##child%20element%20itself%20has%20a%20microformat
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tantek that's the relevant part of the parsing spec
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tantek and this is the specific resolved brainstorm: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Nested_h-.2A_objects.27_.22value.22_property
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gRegorLove php-mf2 issue filed: Fix implied value for nested h-* microformats https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/70
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ben_thatmustbeme yay, clean-up
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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ben_thatmustbeme Showing  17 changed files with 10 additions and 2,005 deletions.
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ben_thatmustbeme Showing 15 changed files with 11 additions and 3,239 deletions.
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ben_thatmustbeme no need for post type specific controllers, and only post type specific sub templates
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gRegorLove woot!
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Loqi woot
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gRegorLove Copycat
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ben_thatmustbeme Copycat
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aaronpk nice
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ben_thatmustbeme basically leaves me only 2 template files i really need to review mf2 on, hopefully lead to less bugs
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: what do you use to identify what app created the post?
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ben_thatmustbeme mf2-wise that is
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aaronpk client id
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i'm been swayed off of created-by as it is pretty confusing
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ben_thatmustbeme feel like 'client' might be sufficient
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ben_thatmustbeme but then no one is actually parsing these yet
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: reducing the # of needed template files is another good argument for *not* having explicit post typing
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ben_thatmustbeme no, its just design. embedding templates is super easy and in fact makes it very easy for me to add new types this way
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't have to touch existing templates, i just create a very small new file
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aaronpk yeah i can't wait to get rid of all my post type specific templates. or at least reduce the number of them drastically
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ben_thatmustbeme my post specific parts are super minimal this way
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/dissolve/postly/blob/master/view/theme/default/template/posttypes/video.tpl
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tantek I think that's the key. Getting rid of explicit post types makes such custom templates *optional* rather than required as part of the design.
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ben_thatmustbeme and i actually have some parts that need to be removed from those too
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ben_thatmustbeme my problem is when i try to do just a generic post template it gets really messy really fast
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ben_thatmustbeme as I am checking for so many things
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ben_thatmustbeme having a different template makes the post templates (though there are multiples now) much much simpler
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, going to go catch a train
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gRegorLove barnaby thinks he already fixed the php-mf2 issue https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/70#issuecomment-122404850
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk barnaby is fast
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gRegorLove No doubt!
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@kevinmarks “protocols, where you could publish the content wherever you want—including on platforms that you control” #indieweb https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150717/11191531671/protocols-instead-platforms-rethinking-reddit-twitter-moderation-free-speech.shtml#where%20you%20could%20publish%20the%20content%20wherever%20you%20want (twitter.com/_/status/622148669941268480)
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@BarnabyWalters New release: php-mf2 v0.2.12 is out! #microformats #indieweb In this version: bugfixes! Improved… https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4cDM5D/ (twitter.com/_/status/622150090493440000)
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KevinMarks My mac is losing the ability to respond to mouse clicks. Very odd
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: so we have demo'd SWAT0 by 3 people, 3 locations, 3 implementations (twitter.com/_/status/622153003957645312)
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aaronpk that was from a while ago KevinMarks
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KartikPrabhu reads back. Loqi messages?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 24 minutes ago: as our leading /marginalia expert and implementer, could you also review my expansion of https://indiewebcamp.com/highlight to see if it fits use-cases you are / were / may be thinking about to enable others to highlight content in your posts? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437162979825
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: documented some things I ran into when changin post permalinks: https://indiewebcamp.com/permalink#Changing_Permalinks_to_posts
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aaronpk sweet
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KartikPrabhu of course add other things that I did not encounter
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tantek KartikPrabhu++ for helping make it easier to not break the web!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 105 karma
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KartikPrabhu goes to review /highlight
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KartikPrabhu tantek: is the FAQ about h-feed inside h-card answered somewhere. The trouble I am running into with hfeed2atom is how deep should I look for the nested h-feed if I am given the microformats representation of a page?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: agreed with /bookmark of /fragmention as a good possible candidate of /highlight
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KartikPrabhu possibly also /like of a /fragmention
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tantek not sure (about the FAQ). I should write it up somewhere. short answer to the how deep is I believe is depth-first-traversal - or grep source and use the first h-feed found
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KartikPrabhu I see. SO it would be easier to find the h-feed using the HTML instead of microformats
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tantek I think a /like of a /fragmention should still be represented as a "heart" or "star" of a e.g. a paragraph
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tantek perhaps even in a facepile next to the para
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tantek you mean instead of JSON
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tantek in both cases they are microformats
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes instead of JSON rep of the microformats
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I was suggesting /like based on earlier discussion of /likes as positive /bookmarks
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tantek hmm - I think the two meanings may be orthogonal
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tantek perhaps that's a good use-case for "u-like-of u-bookmark-of"
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KartikPrabhu tantek: of course open to /bookmark as /highlight for sure
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tantek for the same reason it might be reasonable to suggest using an explicit u-highlight-of rather than overloading u-bookmark-of
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no. i would suggest usinf the presence of /fragmention to decide that
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tantek I think we're not going to know until someone tries building (both ends, posting a highlight, receiving a highlight and presenting it)
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KartikPrabhu just like we didn't invent u-marginalia-of
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tantek hmm
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KartikPrabhu true. implementation is a good guide. I still have to implement /likes /reposts in marginalia
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KartikPrabhu that could help guide /highlights
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tantek another possibility is to have p-highlight-style - an inline style expression for highlighting the highlight
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KartikPrabhu that is risky since scoped is not supported a lot
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KartikPrabhu some funny CSS could break my site's CSS
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tantek e.g. if I wanted to indicate that I highlighted something with yellow: p-highlight-style: "background:yellow"
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I solved that over the weekend :)
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tantek e.g. try my home page in Chrome etc. and scroll past the "rainbow" post to see :)
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tantek in short - it is possible to *synthesize* *compatible* scoped style support, even if on the authoring end all you do is specify the styling you want on that post
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KartikPrabhu tantek: sure but if the highlighter inserts " html{ color: red } " then I have to see how to scope it or remove it
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tantek right, all we support is a un-selectored style declaration or property declaration set
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tantek s/set/list
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Loqi tantek meant to say: right, all we support is a un-selectored style declaration or property declaration list
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tantek e.g. style declaration is the { } part
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tantek which we can make optional
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tantek wherein the consuming code would just wrap { } around the p-highlight-style if it didn't start with {
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tantek the assumption is that the receiving side would put an id on that span and style it accordingly, OR simply use an inline style! <span style="{{p-highlight-style}}"> ... </span> - with p-highlight-style apropriately sanitized of course
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tantek perhaps we start with a whitelist of properties, e.g. background-color, color, text-decoration
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tantek along with suggesting that consuming implementations may want to transform the color values into something that works well with their existing styling
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tantek is pretty sure he's the first to implement custom post styles on posts displayed *in-stream*, including cross-browser support (this past weekend)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah I don't do instream styles
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tantek yes it's a nontrivial problem - which is why I'm pretty sure I'm the first to do it
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tantek it's probably a pretty niche feature
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KartikPrabhu tantek: if you did not use h-feed like aaronpk does it might run into a problem with the last line here: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#Parsing
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KartikPrabhu since there would be no top-level h-entries just a h-card
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snarfed tantek: the beauty of being an indieweb implementor instead of a silo user. if you care about a niche feature, you actually get it!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yup! actually custom-post-styling is one of the reasons I switched from Blogger :)
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tantek snarfed exactly! and I made that point at the start of IndieWebCamp 2015 - that we're bigger than just "replace the silos" - we're about individual experience preference and empowerment
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gRegorLove wow, php-mf2 installed ~3000 times via composer: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4cDM5D/
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tantek (during the start demos video - not sure if that's posted)
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tantek gRegorLove: wow indeed!
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gRegorLove Not sure this microformats thing is gonna take off. ;)
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tantek (while demonstrating what I'd gotten working on my site recently, and people thought it was funny it didn't work in Chrome and Safari)
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: the real question is how many of the 3000 are repeats/how many actively use it
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gRegorLove Shh
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gRegorLove :)
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aaronpk it's funny to think about setting the location and timezone of my "sleep" posts
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aaronpk sometimes I go to sleep in one timezone and wake up in another
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tantek aaronpk: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137523/quotes?item=qt0479147
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tantek so yes, perhaps you need multiple h-cards for your sleep posts ;)
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aaronpk i will fix that on v2 :)
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rhiaro My sister requested an email subscription to my blog
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rhiaro So I guess I'll do that.
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rhiaro I pointed out I post a lot, and she upgraded her request to a weekly digest email
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snarfed rhiaro: hfeed2atom + rss-to-email?
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snarfed ah
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aaronpk haha
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rhiaro I could do a stats summary as well as posts
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rhiaro Coffees consumed, miles run
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 127 karma
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rhiaro Trains missed
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rhiaro feels a distraction coming on
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snarfed http://blog.ifttt.com/post/86218372013/introducing-the-email-digest-channel
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snarfed http://storyports.com/project/blog-digest/
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snarfed i'll stop now :P
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KevinMarks_ is there a trains missed post type?
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KevinMarks_ in my case that usually involves a call to tantek to crash at his place
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aaronpk i'd totally subscribe to the rhiaro weekly newsletter
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rhiaro Haha aaronpk++
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++ Haha ^
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Loqi aaronpk has 894 karma
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rhiaro KevinMarks_ I record missed and rescheduled travel plans
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tantek perhaps Known could auto-generate a tabloid style personal weekly newsletter for you
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rhiaro Scroll down rhiaro.co.uk/travel there were some recently
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KevinMarks_ one of mine: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/419737641894965248
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@kevinmarks Yes @airfrance, you could have told me to use Eurostar instead straight away instead of making me queue 3 times for 45 minutes first (twitter.com/_/status/419737641894965248)
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tantek oh dear
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KevinMarks_ https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150717/11191531671/protocols-instead-platforms-rethinking-reddit-twitter-moderation-free-speech.shtml#c249
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@kevinmarks hey @mmasnick come over to http://indiewebcamp.com - we've built the protocols you're asking for there https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/622145591255044096 (twitter.com/_/status/622173568298692608)
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paulproteus waves to benwerd
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benwerd waves back - hello!
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "29" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Jay Caines-Gooby replied '@kevinmarks @mmasnick I'm interested in WAN lookup of devices; if phones can be found &amp; serve content on 80/443 = lots of scope for thin...' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/jaygooby/status/622176515279704064)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rasmus Vuori favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/622173568298692608)
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Loqi [bridgy] Pius favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/622173568298692608)
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tantek what about if faxmachines can be found?
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csarven What is a faxmachine?
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Loqi csarven: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 7 minutes ago: thanks for asking / noting about "highlight" posts. I've updated the /highlight page with more description and some brainstorming, both along the lines of what it sounded like you were intending in the chat earlier. Please review! https://indiewebcamp.com/highlight http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437162827854
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "faxmachine" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=faxmachine&summary=prompted+by+csarven+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-17%2Fline%2F1437174086428
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paulproteus : D loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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csarven JOke aside, I always thought that faxmachines were pretty cool inventions.
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KartikPrabhu errr what's the "lot of scope" for finding phone through WAN?
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KevinMarks_ a faxmachine is a useful appurtenance to a volcano or ocean https://schema.org/OceanBodyOfWater
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loqi.me created /faxmachine (+120) "prompted by csarven https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437174086428 and dfn added by KevinMarks_" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk oh dear
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KartikPrabhu lol!
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aaronpk fax machines are still the fastest way to send a signed document for a lot of people
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aaronpk still wants to add fax support for indieauth.com
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aaronpk wonders if anyone would use it
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csarven KevinMarks That's funny because because mf2 is flawless
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tantek hey csarven, want to review /highlight rather than making unhelpful vague snarky commentary?
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ update next date" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Haha aaronpk. How would that work, fax them the TOTP? :)
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aaronpk fax them a one-time code the same way you get it via SMS
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csarven tantek /highlight for now sounds okay to me.
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tantek gRegorLove: don't be silly. surely fax them a QR code. wait. :)
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aaronpk i did think about that
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tantek thanks csarven - glad ot hear it
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aaronpk it'd be like http://indiewebcamp.com/kirby-login-app except it would fax you the code instead of showing it on the screen
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tantek !tell rhiaro when you have a moment, could you archive https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp at /IndieWebCamps and update https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp to represent IWC Edinburgh? Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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ben_thatmustbeme What the. Faxmachines? How did we get on that?
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gRegorLove Faxmachines are the future, dude. Get on board.
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tantek sorry, I think that was my fault for mentioning the noun
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rhiaro Will do tomorrow... Remind me again if I forget though
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message 49 seconds ago: when you have a moment, could you archive https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp at /IndieWebCamps and update https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp to represent IWC Edinburgh? Thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-17/line/1437174591049
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ben_thatmustbeme So wait not a schema.org reference?
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aaronpk someone mentioned phones
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ben_thatmustbeme Hehe
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kylewm aaronpk: I would use it ... once :)
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aaronpk haha yeah me too
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csarven doesn't own a phone
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csarven http://csarven.ca/mobile-device-not-found
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ben_thatmustbeme Interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme Very confused about the related reading. Or is that for the whole site?
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KevinMarks_ http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/facebook-now-lets-you-fax-your-photos-i-have-no-idea-why-anyone-would-want-to-do-this/
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ben_thatmustbeme Tantek only does an ipod touch no mobile phone
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KevinMarks_ silos pioneering UX features again
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KevinMarks_ http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/yeah-ok-so-facebook-punkd-us/
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme Related reads are the join of the tags I have in that article with the tags I have assigned to the books I have. I think I want to get rid of this module any way.. it sort of works like a bibliography but not that well.
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csarven It is a taxonomy problem.
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aaronpk considers adding a "fax this post" button on his website
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ben_thatmustbeme From a reading perspective it pushes the Comments really far down
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csarven I used to have it on the right sidebar
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KevinMarks_ faxonomy?
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ben_thatmustbeme I like the idea though. I may do that for my own posts rather than having top click through to a " category"
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ben_thatmustbeme Maybe limit it to a random set of those
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aaronpk or maybe posts with the most comments/likes
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme I had a LIMIT on that.. but didn't like it in the end. Random sounds good. The quality is really dependent on how well you organize your items.
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme http://xisbn.worldcat.org/webservices/xid/isbn/$isbn?method=getMetadata&format=xml&fl=*
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csarven That's how I compile http://csarven.ca/library
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csarven I only enter the ISBNs, take the response from the API and store it in a library table
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csarven Err.. I enter ISBN and the tags in a table
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csarven tags for articles as well
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gRegorLove Nice library page, csarven. There was some work at /2015 last weekend about cataloging and notifying of catalog updates by webmention. I wasn't there for the demo at the end of the day, so don't know how far they got.
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ben_thatmustbeme Ack. Hate the my mobile irc client breaks urls on some characters like $ in this case
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tantek yikes - which client?
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ben_thatmustbeme I had been doing something similar some time ago to organize books and dvd
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ben_thatmustbeme Quassel
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rhiaro Yeah quassel
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csarven gRegorLove Sounds interesting
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gRegorLove We still need to dump from logs or etherpads into /2015/Demos
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gRegorLove Before it gets too far away from us
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KevinMarks_ I have some demo notes at http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiewebcamppdx20150712.html too
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csarven Was there any consideration to use Webmention as a way to aggregate information from multiple sources? A publicizes an item, looks at its list of subscribers (contacts etc..) sends out a Webmention to each e.g., building on what gRegorLove mentioned above.
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tantek what is quassel?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "quassel" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=quassel&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-17%2Fline%2F1437176008406
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tantek gRegorLove: yes, both start and end demos
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tantek csarven see Indienews
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tantek what is indienews
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Loqi IndieNews is an indieweb version of Hacker News where in order to: https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieNews
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ fix dfn?
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csarven It should probably emphasize on "broadcasting" or whatever.
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tantek csarven for broadcasting currently /PuSH is preferred
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieNews (+214) (view diff)
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gRegorLove Thanks, KevinMarks. That will be handy. Is there archived video of the demos, aaronpk?
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aaronpk gRegorLove: the youtube link has the raw stream
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aaronpk i'm going to trim it down and publish a new one tho
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KevinMarks_ also the irc channel for the day has my posts from above and others
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aaronpk better to publish an hour long video of all the demos or split them up individually?
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tantek one video for start demos, one video for finish demos
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aaronpk I don't think I recorded start demos
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aaronpk forgot my tripod the first day
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aaronpk oh man the audio from the table recorded is so much better... too bad I didn't try syncing that up first when I made the swat0 video
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