#indiewebcamp 2015-07-23

2015-07-23 UTC
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KevinMarks
nice aaron
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kongaloosh.com
edited /Micropub (+211) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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kongaloosh.com
edited /Micropub (+0) "/* Kongaloosh */"
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Kongaloosh
rhiaro: fixed and done; added myself to micropub.
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gRegorLove
Why u-comment on /comments-presentation#How_to_markup instead of p-comment?
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aaronpk
i'm glad you asked :)
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GWG
u-comment now?
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GWG
I can't keep up
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gRegorLove
Looks like u-comment gives a fuller implied 'value' in the parser?
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gRegorLove
Vs. just the comment plaintext as the 'value'
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aaronpk
yes, it makes the "value" end up being the URL
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aaronpk
one step closer to having an always-useful "value" as a fallback when the consumer doesn't understand the object
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aaronpk
it's only in the latest php-mf2
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aaronpk
which reminds me i should update pin13.net
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gRegorLove
I thought barnaby kept that up to date, but maybe he forgot
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aaronpk
hm i should also add the php parser version number into the response just for kicks
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gRegorLove
wikifies
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KartikPrabhu
wait what! the value for a comment should be the URL?
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aaronpk
yeah, imagine if you didn't do any fancy comment parsing, what would you display?
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aaronpk
just the URL!
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KartikPrabhu
native comments?
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aaronpk
i mean webmention parsing
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aaronpk
like if the source URL doesn't have any microformats, the best you can do is show the URL
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KartikPrabhu
yeah so then should native comments have a p-comment and webmention ones u-comment?
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aaronpk
maybe!
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gregorlove.com
edited /comments-presentation (+336) "/* FAQ */ Why use u-comment instead of p-comment"
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aaronpk
i don't know, i don't really think about native comments much since I abandoned that years ago
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KartikPrabhu
I have some old native comments from blogger
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aaronpk
oy where's the list of online mf2 parsers?
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aaronpk
oh i see, the libraries have links to the hosted versions if there is one
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aaronpk
i wouldn't call pin13 a validator
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gRegorLove
I plan to have local comments support for a while on my site, so yeah, I'll probably use p-comment h-cite for those.
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aaronpk
sounds right
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KartikPrabhu
is still confused. is the use-case "salmentions" ?
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GWG
One of them, I imagine.
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aaronpk
it's unfortunate we didn't get this into the parsers from the very beginning, but the idea is that the "value" property should always be a useful fallback if you don't understand what the object is
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KartikPrabhu
what are the others if any?
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aaronpk
so for comments/salmention, if you don't go into the h-cite object and get the attributes from there, you could just use the "value" of the h-cite
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aaronpk
which is now the URL if the object is "u-comment h-cite"
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: If you have a neested h-*, the parent h-* value should be the p-name of the child, for example
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KartikPrabhu
if you are parsing a comment why not have the palin text as fall back?
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: yes. so if I have a nested h-cite the value will be whatever p-name it has
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gRegorLove
Depending on the parser prefix. Only if you use p-
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KartikPrabhu
yes. I still don't understand the use for having the URL as the "value"
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KartikPrabhu
also there is no way to know if the value is actually a URL or just some text someone inserted
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gRegorLove
For salmentions, makes it easier to find new comments without diving into the h-cite. I dunno, haven't implemented salmentions yet
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KartikPrabhu
well at the moment no salmention implementation actually check the URL of the comment anyway
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aaronpk
what do you mean?
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gRegorLove
I thought the SWAT0 test people did
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aaronpk
you have to check the URL of the comment in order to know if it's a new comment or not
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aaronpk
so at the very least my implementation does
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KartikPrabhu
well I don't know, I'll stick to p-comment unless I find some reason to switch
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KartikPrabhu
not sold on the fallback value being the URL
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gRegorLove
It does seem pretty restrictive, if that's the only way to support salmentions.
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KartikPrabhu
it is the only way if you don't want to go into the h-cite and find the URL
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gRegorLove
Does your implementation dive into the h-cite if the value isn't a URL?
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aaronpk
it's not the only way obviously
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gRegorLove
Q for aaronpk ^
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aaronpk
yeah i have to dive into the h-cite
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gRegorLove
Then I guess it's not restrictive, as long as implementations fallback to looking in the h-cite
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gRegorLove
stops hypothesizing
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tantek
gRegorLove: note that the u-comment explanation is *right there* below the how to mark up code sample under "What each of these do:"
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tantek
first point: u-comment
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tantek
and explicitly mentions salmention as well
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gRegorLove
I saw it later. I would have expected it to be under the first bullet
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tantek
but hey - if no one else here could find that then an extra FAQ works too
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tantek
it is
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tantek
"for comment discovery when reading an h-entry for salmention receiving. "
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gRegorLove
That line isn't clear why u-comment instead of p-comment
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gRegorLove
To me at least
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tantek
yes it just says why u-comment
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gRegorLove
What is comment discovery?
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tantek
which is all you want for anyone coming to the page for the first time
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tantek
which is most people
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tantek
(future)
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tantek
who don't really care about the history of how it got to be that way
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tantek
(in fact, trying to incorporate such history inline typically leads to spec-bloat, and makes anything spec-like harder to read)
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gRegorLove
I think most first-time readers will not be clear on "comment discovery" or "salmention"
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tantek
they would be even *less clear* if they had to read a history
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gRegorLove
"The u- prefix on the "comment" property works to get the u-url from inside the h-cite" under the second bullet is clearer
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gRegorLove
But I would have expected it under the first bullet
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tantek
nope - because the simpler case is just the u-comment
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tantek
it's incremental disclosure of the information
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gRegorLove
I'm not suggesting adding history, just explanation of "why u-comment"
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gRegorLove
::shrug::
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tantek
it does say why u-comment. just doesn't say why u-comment vs. all other possibilities
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aaronpk
frankly I don't find the explanation of "because comment discovery" compelling
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tantek
also for a native comment - you probably want p-comment h-entry anyway
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aaronpk
and I definitely do like having justifications for things when I'm reading these, otherwise I just think "eh that seems like extra work, why bother"
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gRegorLove
Further confusing to people coming across a 'how to markup' section :)
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aaronpk
i think we need a "how to mark up native comments" section too :)
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tantek
it's not just "because comment discovery"
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tantek
you're taking it out of context
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tantek
of the phrase which is "for comment discovery when reading an h-entry for salmention receiving"
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aaronpk
it still doesn't say *why* that is useful
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tantek
obviously when you drop pieces of that, you create a strawman which you can then claim, eh, doesn't matter
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tantek
yes, /salmention needs a Why section
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aaronpk
ironically i'm pretty sure I was the one that pointed out it was better to use "u-comment", and now I don't even remember the actual reason other than it was related to salmention
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tantek
because for salmentions you care about the URL of the comment being updated
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tantek
or new
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kylewm
i think u-like and u-repost were pretty much slam dunks, p-/u-comment is somewhat more debateable
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tantek
kylewm - how is different? other than "native" comments
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tantek
which you could argue based on some systems that their could be "native" likes too
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gRegorLove
I like the idea of explicit how to markup sections for native/webmentions
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kylewm
well you could argue whether the text or the url of the received comment is more representative
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tantek
kylewm - it's more about which gives you a way to *get to* more representative, which the URL does
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tantek
unless it's a "native" comment, in which case the comment is all there inline
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tantek
what is MicropubInfo?
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aaronpk
it's a bot that tweets search results for "micropub"
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aaronpk
but not our kind of micropub
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tantek
aaronpk - you explained it yourself I thought above - for more easily getting the URL of the comment
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tantek
whether or not there is an h-cite
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tantek
but clearly yes based on the confusion it's worth documenting more as an FAQ
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aaronpk
yes i think that is the actual reason.
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aaronpk
but even still, the problem is if people don't do it consistently, I can't rely on the "value" being useful
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tantek
and that's what we discussed and figured out that night in PDX
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tantek
and why I updated it from p-comment to u-comment
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tantek
other way around
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tantek
if you rely on the value being useful
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tantek
when it doesn't work for people, they'll fix their code
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tantek
plus we can validate for it too
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aaronpk
but I can't rely on the value being useful because it isn't always guaranteed to be a URL
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tantek
(as in an addition for indiewebify.me - test your comments markup on your h-entry)
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tantek
sure - we should diagram what happens with a "native" comment and salmentions - and what should happen
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kylewm
well you're only falling back to "value" if you don't recognize the object you want anyway
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tantek
kylewm - or you don't even bother looking for the object
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aaronpk
the problem is more apparent when you consider that the "comment" property of the h-entry may be both a native comment or a webmention comment
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tantek
that's the point - to not have to care about the nested object if you don't need those details
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aaronpk
if we can make the h-entry spec say that the value of the "comment" properties must always be a URL, then as a consumer I can always expect a URL as the value, whether there's an h-cite, h-entry or it's just a URL
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aaronpk
for native comments, the URL of the comment might be a fragment ID which is fine
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aaronpk
then h-cite becomes a way to augment the "comment" value with additional data beyond the comment's URL
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aaronpk
that's how I imagine effectively using the "value" fallback
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aaronpk
does that make sense? I can try to re-word if necessary
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kylewm
that does make sense
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kylewm
if you can't depend on h-cite value being a url, then it doesn't help you that it's sometimes a url
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kylewm
if you can't depend on h-cite value always being a url, then it doesn't help you that it's sometimes a url
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aaronpk
right. and if the spec requires that the value is a URL, then if it's not a URL I can assume it's an error
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tantek
except putting the burden on a publisher is misleading
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tantek
because you can't actually depend on it
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tantek
so making it a must only deceives consuming code into a bad assumption
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aaronpk
you can't depend on anything
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tantek
right - however, that didn't stop people from misimplementing Atom
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aaronpk
but you can say "it's only useful when _____"
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tantek
because feed readers assumed hey if the spec it must be x
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tantek
then I'll write my code that way
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tantek
that's literally how people write consuming code in practice
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aaronpk
you can never trust external data. that's not the point
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tantek
that's not the point, the point is coders don't act that way
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aaronpk
in this case we're talking about literally a one-character difference so i dont think it's really a burden
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tantek
regardless of any guidance, we have to say what the consuming code should do in either case
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aaronpk
the burden is whether the publisher marks up the h-cite or not
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tantek
anything you ask the publisher to do that isn't immediately obvious adds burden
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tantek
as you or others said above about not bothering
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aaronpk
the easy thing for the publisher is to *only* mark up the URL of the comment with "u-comment"
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tantek
right
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aaronpk
the harder thing to do is to make it an h-cite
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tantek
that's a good starting point
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aaronpk
so i'm saying if you're going to make it an h-cite, then you should use "u-comment h-cite"
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aaronpk
and as a consumer, if you encounter a value of an h-cite that is not a URL, then don't use it
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tantek
I suppose the question is, what's the benefit of the additional h-cite markup
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tantek
(for both publishers and consumers0
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aaronpk
the benefit to the consumer is they can use the values of the comment text and author h-card without fetching the external comment
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tantek
btw re: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Demos fragments - perhaps we should do two pages for before/after demos?
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tantek
or I've cheated in the past by using first / short names in one list, then full names in another
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aaronpk
mediawiki already handled it by adding _2 to the second list of names
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tantek
also I think all the Brighton pages got put under /2015/Brighton/
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tantek
wat whoa haven't seen that before
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aaronpk
but i'm not opposed to splitting it into two pages
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tantek
It would probably be a more robust pattern for future camps that copy/paste the Schedule page with links to the usual sessions
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tantek
maybe Intro Demos vs Hack Demos ?
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aaronpk
or did we decide to not call it "hack" anymore?
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tantek
no we'll just expand on what hack means
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tantek
I mean heck, Science Hack Day is similar in that respect
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tantek
most of what people do and demo there has nothing to do with coding
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tantek
renaming something to something more obscure/general is usually a really bad way to solve a meaning / communication problem
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tantek
that's how you end up with crappy abstractions like "Actor" because hey "author" seems grammatically awkward in some cases
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tantek
better to use a reasonably accurate existing term that people understand than a more precise term that you have to explain
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aaronpk
i thought we had said "creator" or something
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tantek
no that was the earlier change from Builder to Creator
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GWG
I'm trying to decide if I am going to be up in time for IWC Edinburgh.
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tantek
which we still have
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tantek
but hack has always been hack
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KevinMarks
so it seems we are hitting the 'mf2 consumers need to sniff for type' issue a fair bit
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tantek
we are?
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KevinMarks
per that comment discussion above, and previous issues with cards
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tantek
what sniffing did cards need?
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tantek
is this the same kind of conflation that people do when they say scrape when they mean parse
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tantek
that is, there should be no reason to sniff anything with cards
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KevinMarks
the url/text dichotomy on a property,
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tantek
you're always just grabbing the first h-*
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KevinMarks
the html/text dichotomy
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tantek
no those are in separate properties
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KevinMarks
and the text/embedded object's name
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tantek
and it's pretty big leap from url/text to "sniff for type"
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KevinMarks
OK, it is a mix of conditional code and the url/text sniff
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aaronpk
if by "sniff for type" you mean "sanitize" then sure
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aaronpk
sanitize/validate
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tantek
conditional code is hardly sniffing
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tantek
neither is sanitizing/validating
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tantek
so yeah, this is like people saying "scrape" when they're actually talking about parsing
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KevinMarks
the note there is text
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KevinMarks
(in the h-card)
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tantek
forgets how long unmung takes on his home page ;)
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KevinMarks
I should make it cache globally with etag/last modified
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Loqi
I agree
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KevinMarks
with bent he note is an html/value pair 'cos he used e-
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aaronpk
tantek: this is actually why I want the "h-entry" vocab to say that the "comment" property is a URL
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tantek
but of course we can assert no such thing
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Loqi
gives aaronpk the "h
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aaronpk
because if consumers are expected to actually use both URL and non-URL values, then you *do* have to sniff for type
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tantek
we can merely suggest best practices
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aaronpk
I would rather tell consumers to ignore non-URL values rather than use them
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aaronpk
which is validating
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tantek
we could say that true
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KevinMarks
if it can be url, text or html, then you have to write more convoluted code
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aaronpk
there's a big difference
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tantek
KevinMarks, as noted, it's not expected to be text or html
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tantek
those are already provided in separate fields - please stop conflating
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tantek
and just because you have conditional code does not mean you are "sniffing"
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tantek
(e.g. checking for 'value' first before array index)
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KevinMarks
comment there is an h-cite
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KevinMarks
not a url
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KevinMarks
so you have to check if it is a dictionary first
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: this is what i'm saying
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KevinMarks
then see if it has a url
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aaronpk
there is a standard code path of "if object, use value. if string, use it directly"
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KevinMarks
in its properties
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tantek
KevinMarks, that's just transitional because we're switching from p-comment h-cite to u-comment h-cite. sheesh
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KevinMarks
well, if array of string
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aaronpk
you can avoid needing to look at the "url" property of the h-cite if the value of the h-cite *is* that url
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aaronpk
so the standard code path never needs to know about data types of teh object
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aaronpk
if value is always representative
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tantek
right
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tantek
aaronpk - I think we should design consuming algorithms that way
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aaronpk
i agree
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tantek
and just make them defensive about other possibilities
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tantek
rather than try to "handle" them
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aaronpk
that's a good way of putting it
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aaronpk
that's what i've been trying to describe
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tantek
the quicker people can check to see if their code is "correct" the better
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KevinMarks
so that is consuming algorithms rather than parsers
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: yes
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KevinMarks
hence the utils suggestion
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KevinMarks
(from earlier)
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KevinMarks
given a mf2-parsed output of a page, extract certain kinds of indie-useful structure
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aaronpk
one could write a generic "get_value" function which is basically: if(is_string(property)) return property; elseif(is_object(property)) return property.value
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KevinMarks
so do we define those as a json->json mapping
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KevinMarks
or a json->html mapping (for injecting into the page)
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KevinMarks
if we want them to be testably consistent across languages, I mean
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aaronpk
json->json maybe, like defining a super simple JSON structure that corresponds to a "comment"
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aaronpk
then writing a funciton that turns one element of an h-entry's "comment" properties into that structure
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KevinMarks
and then the 'how to markup' part mappingback into html is a template of choice issue
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KevinMarks
the salmention issue makes this concrete as it does assume some kind of html->json->html->json->html cycle
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aaronpk
yes. well, html->parsed->html->parsed->html. JSON is not actually part of the picture
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aaronpk
nowhere in my code does the HTML page actually get transformed to JSON, it gets parsed from HTML to native data structures
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KevinMarks
OK, I'm using JSON as a shorthand for 'dynamic language structure'
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KevinMarks
which I suppose is python/javascript bias
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aaronpk
yea, just wanted to be explicit for the logs ;)
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KevinMarks
as PHP they're a bit different
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KevinMarks
in that telling an array from a dict is more nuanced
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@kevinmarks
so @frontendy, if you're slef-dogfooding your web-building product, why are you writing on medium and not your own site? #indieweb
(twtr.io/11vUKxaePE8)
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aaronpk
#irony
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aaronpk
wow they even say "dogfooding"
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aaronpk
omg the website field of their twitter account is their medium profile
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KevinMarks
and the 'learn more' link on their website is also their medium profile
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@AlexKKearney
Patched together reply-to and micropub today. All in all, I guess that's productive. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/23/patched-to
(twtr.io/11vbBjv3E3j)
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KartikPrabhu
today in not self-dogfooding, Facebook Design stories on Medium: https://medium.com/facebook-design
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@ricksmithbooks
Learn how to publish your PAPERBACK with CreateSpace on Amazon. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
(twtr.io/11vcgb2cj28)
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@kartik_prabhu
@RudigerMeyer I haven’t figured out how to do automatic webmentions yet either.
(twtr.io/11vd6DK0Pxs)
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@Pinboard
Someday we’ll look back on this weird fad of publishing on Medium, and none of the pages will render
(twtr.io/11vhSf4aoyf)
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@kevinmarks
https://www.youtube.com/ I love that @aaronpk got to use his own music to dramatise this SWAT0 demo #indieweb
(twtr.io/11vkf0LY_R4)
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notizblog.org
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notizblog.org
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notizblog.org
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notizblog.org
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notizblog.org
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marcus-povey.co.uk
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mapkyca
(very) minor point re: https://indiewebcamp.com/IRC as I'm looking at it right now.. Port is listed as 6667 on the set up details. Any reason we don't point folk towards 6697, which is the TLS endpoint?
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voxpelli
Do any Microformats parser parse any language properties?
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voxpelli
Thinking I want to be able to post both English and Swedish stuff over Micropub so would want to use the same format
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marcus-povey.co.uk
created /User:Marcus-povey.co.uk (+213) "Created page with "=<span class="h-card">[https://marcus-povey.co.uk Marcus Povey ]</span>= Uses: [[Wordpress]], [[Known]] and various other things. See also: [https://mapkyca.com mapkyca.com], ...""
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joskar
voxpelli: The parser I wrote last year parses language properties. (not open source though, and is undergoing a rewrite at the moment)
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joskar
voxpelli: (I've tried doing some multilingual stuff on my web page)
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voxpelli
joskar: my blog has a somewhat weird attempt at having Swedish content within an otherwise English site – valid HTML, but probably a bit hard for a consumer to understand
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voxpelli
joskar: was thinking about parsers that comply with the expected output of https://github.com/glennjones/tests
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joskar
Haven't seen those before, but mine being written last year I don't think it would comply with that anyway (and the language properties doesn't even translate to something remotely JSON...)
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joskar
That page will be good when I'm rewriting my parser though, thanks :)
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voxpelli
I think the Node.ja, Python and PHP parsers all produce the output there – and Micropub consumes data in a similar format
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voxpelli
s/Node.ja/Node.js/
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Loqi
voxpelli meant to say: I think the Node.js, Python and PHP parsers all produce the output there – and Micropub consumes data in a similar format
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joskar
Is there a way to express language properties of the strings in JSON?
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voxpelli
joskar: the language probably has to be expressed as a property of the parsed h-*
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joskar
voxpelli: So, a simple "lang": as a sibling for the "type": would be enough then if a lang= attribute was found on the h-* tag? (or possibly on the *-content tag)
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voxpelli
joskar: either that or having it as a key in the "properties", my initial thought was the latter
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@ricksmithbooks
Publish your printed book on Amazon with this step-by-step guide. #selfpub #IndieAuth http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RPP01H0/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
(twtr.io/11w4gR9x7m8)
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joskar
voxpelli: Wouldn't that clash with a hypothetical "*-lang" class name? Is that desirable?
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voxpelli
joskar: would merely be an implied value in case one explicitly haven't set up a "*-lang" I'm thinking
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joskar
If a *-lang class name would denote "languages spoken" for instance, then I think no. But I haven't seen such a class, so I don't know.
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@m4rch
RT @t: 5y+1d ago was the 1st Federated Social Web Summit #FSWS2010, a key inspiration for @IndieWebCamp. @evanpro ... http://tantek.com/2015/200/t1/fsws2010-inspiration-indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/11w5qTq2TV8)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+11) "/* Schedule */"
(view diff)
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rhiaro
voxpelli: Do you mean you want to submit the same post in two different languages in, in one micropub request?
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acegiak
can anyone see acegiak.net? online dns tools say they're getting the right IP but my machine is timing out
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acegiak
I've moved the machine to a new physical location with a new IP so I've updated the dns records but it's being weird
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rhiaro
acegiak: I get not available - address unreachable
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acegiak
rhiaro: what IP is it hitting?
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petermolnar
acegiak I can see it, but it's _very_ slow
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rhiaro
how do I find that out..?
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acegiak
petermolnar: weeeird. I wonder what is cauing that
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rhiaro
203.122.217.74
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Loqi
!dns 203.122.217.74
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Loqi
ppp203-122-217-74.static.internode.on.net
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rhiaro
oh what's that loqi?
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acegiak
rhiaro: ok the ip change hasn't propagated to you yet
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rhiaro
oh, right
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acegiak
trys to work out why it's being slow
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petermolnar
po2.lns20.adl6.on.ii.net (150.101.225.27) hangs for traceroute from Germany; work from UK
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petermolnar
last hop before your host
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acegiak
petermolnar: is it maybe just a case of waiting for propagation then?
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acegiak
has her own bind9 server but is actually way over her head
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petermolnar
I'm not a domain wizard myself either
#
petermolnar
by the way, digitalocean offers free dns hosting
#
petermolnar
and a pretty interface
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petermolnar
so I'm ok using that, because messing up dns is an ugly knot to untie
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voxpelli
rhiaro: nope, just that I want to indicate the language that the post is in – that's something I do for my non-micropub posts
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rhiaro
voxpelli: aha, okay, makes sense
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rhiaro
So you don't do translations of posts?
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voxpelli
rhiaro: nope, not much reason to – if it's a post of general interest I write it in english as all swedes know english
#
rhiaro
Interesting
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voxpelli
but I guess the nordic countries are a bit odd that way, totally different with posts in eg. German
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@mackie_roy
@affordanceinfo Est-ce que vous connaissez l'indieweb, et qu'est-ce que vous en pensez, par rapport á la vision du web qu'il envisionne ?
(twtr.io/11wB1GWGbq8)
#
@IndieWebCampUK
Breakfast ordered for IWC Edi from @SnaxEdinburgh.. If that's not a good reason to come along I don't know what is http://indieWebCamp.com/2015/Edinburgh
(twtr.io/11wC9Nnj9PC)
#
@rhiaro
RT @IndieWebCampUK: Breakfast ordered for IWC Edi from @SnaxEdinburgh.. If that's not a good reason to come along I don't know what is http…
(twtr.io/11wCPx7aaPj)
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voxpelli
!tell glennjones Perhaps you have some input on this mf2-parsing issue as well? https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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glennjones
voxpelli yes parsing text from html is not straight forward that’s why I use my own lib https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-shiv/blob/dev/lib/text.js it’s a simple none-CSS aware version of innerText
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Loqi
glennjones: voxpelli left you a message 28 minutes ago: Perhaps you have some input on this mf2-parsing issue as well? https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-23/line/1437651286088
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glennjones
voxpelli By default my parser provides text as trimmed textContent as per spec, but there is a switch to collapse whitespace where the output is much more usable http://glennjones.net/tools/microformats/ which I always use when consuming microformats
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voxpelli
glennjones: does it also expand whitespace for eg. <br>?
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voxpelli
glennjones: I see, it does it for block level tags but not for br I think – anyway – would be great to spec that functionality out as something standard-like
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voxpelli
should preferably be the standard way to parse microformats
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glennjones
The problem with innerText is, its not standard - wrote about it here http://codebits.glennjones.net/textextraction/innertext.html and its hard to do if you take into account CSS properties such as display and white-space
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glennjones
That said my ‘collapse whitespace’ approach could be codified its weather other would agree to add something like this to spec, so far not http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues#When_to_collapse_whitespace_in_properties
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voxpelli
glennjones: I think it could make sense independent of the microformat spec – all parsers that wants to extract text out of plain HTML needs to do somehting like that
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voxpelli
at least whitespace should be expanded
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acegiak
is acegiak.net working properly for people now?
#
voxpelli
glennjones: can you add your point of view with that Microformat discussion to https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69 ?
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voxpelli
acegiak: nope
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glennjones
Yes will do, once I have finished the work I am currently doing on the parser for Mozilla, I will try and have a look at formalising and document this way of handling text
#
GWG
Good morning, all
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GWG
pfefferle: New site?
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pfefferle
GWG ???
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GWG
pfefferle.org
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pfefferle
GWG not really, pfefferle.org is way older… I tested the IndieAuth-OpenID script of cweiske…
fiatjaf joined the channel
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GWG
pfefferle: I'm fixing the errors thrown by my new WordPress coding standards test suite.
#
GWG
Deep in Camel Case violations
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pfefferle
GWG camel case doesn’t matter for the wordpress coding standard… are you usinf PSR?
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pfefferle
GWG ah ok, then I used it intentionally ;)
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GWG
I also don't have whitespace in the right places
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GWG
163 violations in Post Kinds alone
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pfefferle
GWG your classic indents problem ;)
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GWG
Error #17 of 163
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GWG
snarfed suggested unit testing. The same test suite had the WordPress Coding Standards. I figured I'd test for everything.
yalamerde joined the channel
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notizblog.org
edited /code-of-conduct (+42) "/* Signed */"
(view diff)
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pfefferle
GWG I think it is easier to use a standard you can check against
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pfefferle
for non-wordpress code I prefer PSR-*
pfefferle, stream7 and schmarty joined the channel
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GWG
pfefferle: I also would like to put some functionality in as I fix coding standards
fiatjaf, fourtonfish, snarfed, cweiske, Pierre-O, lewisnyman and pfefferle joined the channel
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@ChrisAldrich
Finished updating @WithKnown to version 0.8.2. #IndieWeb #FTW
(twtr.io/11wURzde1yQ)
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jonnybarnes
I let my text editor lint my code as I type
#
snarfed
style++
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Loqi
style has 2 karma
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snarfed
…but having said that, GWG, if you're taking votes, i vote to prioritize tests over style :P
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snarfed
way bigger impact
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jonnybarnes
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious++
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Loqi
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious has 1 karma
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jonnybarnes
you can literlly upvote anything?
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snarfed
anything++
#
Loqi
anything has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
well not anythinthing with a space
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ben_thatmustbeme
or punctuation
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jonnybarnes
shakes head in disappointment
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csarven
Are the IWC kids using XFN these days or is it declared dead?
#
csarven
is considering to chuck it out of the window from his comments and contact page...
#
kylewm.com
edited /2014/NYC (-24) "remove category:Guest_List"
(view diff)
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csarven
?++
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csarven
+++
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csarven
*++
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csarven
\++
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csarven
\+++
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csarven
\\+++
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csarven
GWG for some reason, I equate your nick to OMG in my head
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jonnybarnes
any css whizzes in here? how can I apply a rule to classA only when it follows classB?
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Loqi
c has 50 karma
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csarven
Follows as in first child?
lewisnyman joined the channel
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csarven
or sibling?
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ben_thatmustbeme
jonnybarnes: example html?
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csarven
foo bar { } (where bar is a descendant of foo), foo > bar { bar is first child of foo), foo + bar (bar is a sibling of foo, where they have the same parent)
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jonnybarnes
csarven, the + rule is what I wanted, thanks
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csarven
jonnybarnes++
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Loqi
jonnybarnes has 9 karma
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Loqi
csarven has 13 karma
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jonnybarnes
does this look like I’m replying to the tweet in question? https://i.imgur.com/ezFKcEV.png
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csarven
Yes, but it can be better e.g., if the object in question to which replying to is given more context (e.g., prominent size, location in contrast to everything else). So, one way to do that may be to simply keep the width of the replied space less than or equal to the width of the object's width it is replying to
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csarven
aka "thread" look
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csarven
Ok, I'm dropping XFN from the comments.
ttepasse, wolftune, shiflett, todrobbins, martinBrown and chalettu joined the channel
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voxpelli
csarven: I would say XFN is still alive
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chreekat.net
edited /2015/Demos (+185) "/* Bryan */ add example"
(view diff)
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kylewm
I'm curious if y'all got notifications for being added to https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/lists/indiewebcamp/members
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kylewm
I tried gregorLove's trick of adding everyone while private then switching to public
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aaronpk
i haven't been on twitter since then lol
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rhiaro
kylewm: I didn't
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rhiaro
Oh no wait
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rhiaro
I did
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rhiaro
4 minutes ago
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aaronpk
yep i see it in my notificfations on twitter now
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kylewm
so that's a list of everyone i could find from Category:Guest_List and irc-people
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csarven
is successfully outside of kylewm's list even though he is listed in /irc-people
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@markwunsch
Inspired by @t and @adactio and the #indieweb movement, I set myself up a little POSSE system w/ Jekyll and Tumblr http://blog.markwunsch.com/post/124842033165/tumblelog-posse#_=_
(twtr.io/11wb48poXW8)
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voxpelli
kylewm: did you use relspider for that?
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@markwunsch
RT @t: #IndieWebCamp 2014 Year in Review — This Is A Movement: http://tantek.com/2015/201/b1/indiewebcamp-2014-year-review
(twtr.io/11wbGnNrfsH)
yakker and snarfed joined the channel
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KevinMarks
voxpelli: the rel parsing looks for lang now
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KevinMarks
but we don't parse lang attributes elsewhere
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KevinMarks
if you have examples in the wild we can look into ti
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KevinMarks
I mentioned climbtothestars.org before as an example
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: https://github.com/voxpelli/voxpelli.github.com/blob/master/_layouts/post.html#L7 – I put lang="se" on my h-entries when they are in swedish
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voxpelli
the rest of the site is always in english – navigation and such
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KevinMarks
Steph posts inboth french and English, and puts summaries in the other language on each post, and marks them up with lang
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aaronpk
checks if silo.pub supports flickr
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KevinMarks
she made a WP plugin for this
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aaronpk
files a feature request on silo.pub :)
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KevinMarks
which alos points to https://wpml.org/ for more complex langauge
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snarfed
(aaronpk's next step may be to upvote https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/225)
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KevinMarks
s/langauge/multilingual markup
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Loqi
KevinMarks meant to say: which alos points to https://wpml.org/ for more complex multilingual markup
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voxpelli_
KevinMarks: I have it covered on the backend side, what I want to do is to be able to specify the language in the Micropub request
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KevinMarks
ah, interesting, I thought you wanted to parse it as mf2
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voxpelli_
And since Micropub maps to the parsed result of Microformat it feels like it should be there as well
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voxpelli_
(I guess h-feed clients of non-swedish readers would prefer to be able to filter by language as well)
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aaronpk
voxpelli_: what does your markup look like right now? do you have an example?
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aaronpk
snarfed: hmm yes although not the priority in my case
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aaronpk
my use case is uploading my camera photos to flickr with the new wifi card since eye-fi is shutting it down
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voxpelli_
aaronpk: http://voxpelli.com/2011/03/sista-dagen-p-good-old/ is an actual post using that template
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petermolnar
hm... I didn't really thing it trough that importing all my last.fm scrobbler may stress my database a bit
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petermolnar
s/thing/think
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Loqi
petermolnar meant to say: hm... I didn't really think it trough that importing all my last.fm scrobbler may stress my database a bit
tilgovi, snarfed1 and gRegorLove joined the channel
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voxpelli
aaronpk: KevinMarks: would just using a new "lang" property (for micropub) and eventually getting parsers to set it to the implied value of the html lang attribute be a good solution?
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aaronpk
i would want to see what the parsed microformats version looks like before adding a micropub property
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KevinMarks
the trickiness is that lang could apply to an individual property rather than a whole h- object
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aaronpk
you know how when there's e-content, the value ends up turning into an object? maybe the same could be true for lang
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aaronpk
so if you had <p class="p-name" lang="fr">foo</p> the result would be "name":{"value":"foo","lang":"fr"}
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: I wonder though if it would make sense very often to have multiple languages within the same h- object?
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KevinMarks
if steph was using mf2, how would her <div class="entry-content"><div class="other-excerpt lang="fr"> <div lang="en"> change
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voxpelli
right, but adding language to eg. p-name's is would be hard?
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KevinMarks
that's a clear use case - alternate language summary
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voxpelli
so language on h- object level + e-content level perhaps?
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aaronpk
if you want to attach a lang to the whole h-object then it could be parsed as an additional key alongside "type" and "properties"
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KevinMarks
right, at h- level it is easier
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KevinMarks
<div class="e-content"><div class="e-other-excerpt lang="fr"> <div lang="en"> is still tricky
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: aaronpk: something like this perhaps? https://gist.github.com/voxpelli/cd56cbcf6db878aa56f0
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aaronpk
yeah that seems reasonable
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voxpelli
now – how would one support that in a micropub context :P
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KevinMarks
well, you'd want a value: on the content entries as well
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aaronpk
i also took out lang on the swedish content because it would be assumed from the enclosing h-entry
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voxpelli
right, accidentally removed too much
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voxpelli
true, +1 on that
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voxpelli
how would one go about actually getting this into parsers?
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voxpelli
get it into http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing, then into test suite, then into parsers?
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KevinMarks
(the above discussion)
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voxpelli
ok, I'll do that then
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aaronpk
yeah cool
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KevinMarks
then modify a parser to demonstrate it, then we can iterate in other implementations
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KevinMarks
and then get it into the master parsing spec
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aaronpk
be sure to include links to your posts that are in different languages
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KevinMarks
yes, and other examples like Steph's
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voxpelli
will do
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aaronpk
i actually have a couple posts in german you could include too :)
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aaronpk
if only i had marked them up so i had an easy way to find them ;)
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KevinMarks
another case I'd expect to see would be cite's or quotations in another language
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KevinMarks
eg if I marked up the french quote in this: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2002/08/untranslatable.html
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voxpelli
I guess it would be hard to add to anything but h-* and e-* content so unless those are marked up as e-* it will be hard :P
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KevinMarks
(I'm very imperfectly multilingual)
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KevinMarks
that's a reasonable compromise though - adding it to every possible p- is tricky
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aaronpk
voxpelli: i was thinking the parser would expand a p-* element to {"value":"foo","lang":"en"} anuyway
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KevinMarks
whereas e- already implies structure
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voxpelli
Quotes would make sense to add as e-* as well – if one wants to emphasize something within it or such
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aaronpk
consumers are supposed to be able to treat the "value" attribute of an object as if it were not an object
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voxpelli
aaronpk: that would be a rather breaking change though :/
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aaronpk
yeah, but would also encourage better handling of values
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aaronpk
less special-casing based on property names
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voxpelli
I'll write up an initial brainstorm entry after dinner and try to include as much as possible of the discussions here
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aaronpk
i just found a few of my german posts so i can add them to the wiki after you do the first pass
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snarfed
hey aaronpk, any idea if 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe6e:e59f is you?
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aaronpk
no idea. i haven't done any ipv6 stuff yet
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snarfed
maybe your hosting provider
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snarfed
totally fine, just funny
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aaronpk
repeatedly?
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snarfed
yup ~1qps
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aaronpk
oh hey yes it is! I didn't even know my newest server had ipv6
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snarfed
i guess technically it may be indiewebcat's, not yours
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aaronpk
i wonder what is doing that
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aaronpk
huh something is doing a HEAD request on one of my URLs at that same rate
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aaronpk
ohhh it's a beanstalk job that crashes and restarts
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aaronpk
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 120 karma
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jonnybarnes
looking at https://github.com/indieweb/newBase60py/blob/master/newbase60.py, and that looks much nicer than my PHP code
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KevinMarks
Python encourages you to use dictionaries like that
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KevinMarks
I think the dict-based way is faster though.
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KevinMarks
coudl probably make it a tiny bit quicker by making numtosxg put the chars in an array and join at the end
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aaronpk
awesome
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voxpelli
should I add it to the issue page as well? otherwise I'm going to make a reference-PR for the node parser now I think
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KevinMarks
voxpelli: could you make the example have actual swedish and english in instead of gibberish
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: sure, I'll fix it
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KevinMarks
also, the name is in english, but marked as swedish implicitly
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KevinMarks
similarly, having some html in the e- bits that is stripped in the value is also clearer
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KevinMarks
(we know that's how it works, but it's good to make each example clear as a standalone)
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: All fixed :)
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KevinMarks
voxpelli++
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Loqi
voxpelli has 34 karma
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Loqi
slack/tantek: The Lang stuff is interesting. Note that we ran into obstacles when we tried similar approaches with capturing the shape and cords attributes from area into the parsed mf2 JSON.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Limiting Lang to h- and e- is an interesting approach. Not sure of such a limitation is reasonable though eg for plain text notes in other languages.
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aaronpk
i am not a fan of limiting to h- and e-, im going to add some more notes to the brainstorming page
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bear
this line https://github.com/indieweb/newBase60py/blob/master/newbase60.py#L20 would be more efficient as s = []; s.append(c); ''.join(s[::-1]
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Point being, is this approach limited to lang or can we use it for other attributes too?
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aaronpk
i also think that if suddenly any property can be a string or an object ({"lang":"en","value":"foo"}) then consuming code will end up being more robust and vocab-agnostic
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Interesting.
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aaronpk
encouraging consuming code to take advantage of the "value" property more often
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Note the inconsistency now between rel 'text' and p- 'value'
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Maybe that's ok?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Yes because rel 'value' as the text inside the a element would be very confusing. (Rel values mean the things in the rel attribute.)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: And p- 'text' could also be u- 'text' which is confusing because the u- is more likely to be a URL rather than just the "text".
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Tose are my reasons for being ok with the apparent inconsistency. Each works better in its context.
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aaronpk
agreed
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GWG
snarfed: I am not in a hurry.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Just wanted to raise that before anyone else did and think/work it through. Not sure if it needs an FAQ or some other note on the wiki.
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aaronpk
probably worth documenting
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GWG
snarfed:The testing files I added included built in WordPress checking. So I want to clear those errors as I proceed.
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jonnybarnes
thanks KevinMarks, looks much better than it did before: https://github.com/jonnybarnes/indieweb/blob/master/src/Numbers.php
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aaronpk
i just copied tantek's JS and translated it to php. not super pretty, but very small https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/90b65905b44393c2c0a0
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Wait what. Cassis.js already has the newbase60 funcs
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aaronpk
oh yeah i think that's probably where i got them from then. can't remember if i had to make any changes to have it work outside of cassis
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Oh yeah you prob replaced the strcat with .
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aaronpk
yeah that sounds irght
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Loqi
slack/tantek: But I think that's it. :P
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jonnybarnes
aaronpk, what's the error checking your comment mentions?
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jonnybarnes
do you mean correcting O to 0 etc.?
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voxpelli
added a PR for experimental parsing of languages to the microformat-node project now + documented it at the wiki so I think I've done what I can about that issue for now – guess I'll wait for feedback from aaronpk and others now :)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Also cassis num_to_sxg handles negative numbers.
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aaronpk
huh mine is ever so slightly different
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aaronpk
tantek: did you change your functions in the past 3-4 years or so?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: And sxg_to_num handles bothe negative numbers and apparent end of number in the string (a bit more robust).
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Loqi
slack/tantek: I think you may have forked from the newbase60 wiki page which is way out of date!
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Really should use or fork from cassis.js
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aaronpk
oh! that is quite likely
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aaronpk
you should update the wiki ;)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Only cassis.js func dependencies are strcat, strlen, and substr.
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aaronpk
yep I have the wiki version
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aaronpk
sounds like a good redirect to set up :)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: And maybe a future home for PESOS github?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: As a stepping stone towards POSSE to github?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Does Bridgy Publish support POSSE to github? Eg note-&gt;gist, reply to github issue -&gt; comment on github issue
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snarfed
tantek: sorry, no, no github support yet, but i wish it did!
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aaronpk
that'd be great haha
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Loqi
rofl
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Loqi
slack/tantek: keeps stepping deeper into a rabbithole.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Does Bridgy Publish run somehwhere that allows SMTP outbound? Eg so it could POSSE to email?
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snarfed
yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen
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snarfed
emaildeliverability--
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Loqi
emaildeliverability has -2 karma
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aaronpk
you can farm out to amazon SES to avoid most of the issues
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snarfed
oh actually good point, google has the same service
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snarfed
so i wouldn't need to do any email deliverability work
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kylewm
my 2p, I don't think Bridgy should necessarily be the first to implement some of these publish features
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snarfed
good point kylewm
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kylewm
it'd be nice if some people prototyped them on their own implemetnations first
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kylewm
although I guess Known has a Github plugin
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aaronpk
considers making a similar "publish" service for p3k
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GWG
snarfed: I hope my nonsensical response made sense. I need to do to learn
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snarfed
snarfed: sure! made sense. i still say ignore the style warnings and just get unit tests working, but up to you!
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GWG
snarfed: I am learning init tests on my plugins before subjecting you to them.
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GWG
Because I'm bound to make annoying mistakes on the way.
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GWG
By the way, how do you ignore 168 warnings?
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snarfed
got me. tool/lang specific
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GWG
snarfed: Rhetorical question
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GWG
I have already started having ideas on Micropub unit testing without http and that would require a rewrite.
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: GWG: really? weren't we going to just call Micropub::parse_request() from the test directly?
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tantek.com
edited /GitHub (+676) "/* POSSE to GitHub */ note variants, note->gist, reply-> repo or issue"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
was searching for a name for p3k's potential POSSE service, thought of "movable type" and then *headdesk*
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aaronpk
hmm maybe "Gazette"
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KartikPrabhu
"Mercury" Roman messenger God
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aaronpk
too old
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aaronpk
"Gazette" would be a better name for an aggregator
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aaronpk
files that away
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kylewm
i'm thinking the in the area of "broadcast"
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KartikPrabhu
"transmit"
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tantek.com
edited /GitHub (+654) "backfeed, how, status of Bridgy support / link to issue"
(view diff)
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kylewm
how about "murrow" :)
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gRegorLove
Transmat
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aaronpk
telegraph?
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gRegorLove
is behind, "p3k POSSE service?"
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aaronpk
yeah i'm thinking about making a POSSE service like Bridgy Publish
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kylewm
telegraph is cool
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Yes just thought telegraph myself and looked it up on Wikipedia.
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kylewm
not that much more current than Mercury tbh
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aaronpk
mostly because I want GitHub and Flickr support, but I probably have a better chance of that happening if I build it myself :)
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kylewm
but it fits in nicely with switchboard
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gRegorLove
Just for p3k, or a public service?
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aaronpk
it'd be public like Quill is
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Loqi
slack/tantek: keeps crawling back out of the rabbithole.
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gRegorLove
I was just thinking yesterday Flickr POSSE would be cool
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aaronpk
my general rule of thumb is I make these things public if I'm not storing any actual data on them
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aaronpk
the cost to run them is low if I'm not expected to store things
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snarfed
hmm, how can we convince aaronpk to get into python more and contribute to bridgy… :P
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aaronpk
python hurts my eyes
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kylewm
I still want to add backfeed for Flickr to Bridgy... very slowly working on it a little at a time
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snarfed
kylewm: oh? that's your recent flickr work?
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kylewm
yeah, just testing the waters really... starting to implement get_activities_response
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Loqi
slack/tantek: stumbles into another rabbithole.
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kylewm
wonders what tantek is doing
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aaronpk
looks for some rabbits to stuff in the rabbitholes so tantek doesn't fall in to more of them
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snarfed
enjoys eating rabbit
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gRegorLove
wabbit season.
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KartikPrabhu
duck season
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snarfed
ok then, aaronpk if you start with github, kylewm may have flickr into bridgy by the time you're done :P
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snarfed
no pressure!
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aaronpk
so many projects
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snarfed
prioritizing++
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Loqi
prioritizing has 2 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Flickr (+1386) "add how to POSSE, backfeed, Bridgy Publish / Backfeed status / feature requests, move feeds down, prepend stub Export from section, POSSE copies"
(view diff)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: kylewm I'm leaving a trail of wiki edits as I climb out of the rabbitholes.
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tantek.com
edited /Flickr (+639) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ subheads for people, more links"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /Flickr (-19) "/* Bridgy Publish POSSE */ link to github issue"
(view diff)
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Loqi
slack/tantek: gregorlove re would be cool, see ^^^ and comment on that Bridgy publish issue 432
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Loqi
slack/tantek: crawls out of that one too.
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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Für das SCREENGUIDE Magazin (Ausgabe 26) wurde Aaron Parecki zum Thema Indie Web (Camp) interviewt. Das abgedruckte Interview ist aus Platzg...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (http://notizblog.org/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/)
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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Für das SCREENGUIDE Magazin (Ausgabe 26) wurde Aaron Parecki zum Thema Indie Web (Camp) interviewt. Das abgedruckte Interview ist aus Platzg...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (http://notizblog.org/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/)
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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Für das SCREENGUIDE Magazin (Ausgabe 26) wurde Aaron Parecki zum Thema Indie Web (Camp) interviewt. Das abgedruckte Interview ist aus Platzg...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://notizblog.org/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/)
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KevinMarks
talking of multilingual posts…
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Loqi
slack/tantek: How do you link to a specific function name in a github file?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Instead of just a line number (which is more fragile)
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aaronpk
i should ask if I can copy that text to my site, both english and german
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aaronpk
tantek: you can link to a line number from a specific git commit so that it's permanent
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Loqi
I agree
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Loqi
slack/tantek: A specific commit would also go out of out date.
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KevinMarks
fragmention, tantek?
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aaronpk
well it can't by definition
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Wat
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snarfed
heh, you're both right. both have drawbacks. line number at HEAD will eventually point to a different line than the one you want. line number at a commit won't, but the file it shows will eventually be stale.
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aaronpk
for example this will always link to the same line even if there are changes made later https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/6701504876d6c9242eb310b35f41d40d9785ab4e/Mf2/Parser.php#L44
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aaronpk
ah yes
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snarfed
usually specific commit is the better tradeoff
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aaronpk
linking to function name (e.g. with fragmention) has the same problem that the function might disappear later anyway
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KevinMarks
you'd need the params for Java, incase they overloaded it
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kylewm
params are part of the function signature!
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aaronpk
in php you can't have two functions named the same thing with different params
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cweiske
... unless you use __call or __callStatic
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Loqi
cweiske: tantek left you a message 1 day, 4 hours ago: thanks for the heads-up re: /edit - only publishing example(s) so far. updated my post reference to /edit with a parenthetical note accordingly (like person-tag in 2014) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-22/line/1437581033791
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aaronpk
that totally doesn't count lol
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Loqi
cweiske: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 day, 1 hour ago: have to make a hfeed2atom proxy for aaronpk to use first :) On the list for tonight http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-22/line/1437589737192
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gRegorLove
Cool, tantek. The todo list gets longer. :)
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Demos (+58) "Brighton demos will end up on their own page(s), like the rest of the Brighton 2015 pages"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+58) "/* Interests */ Flickr"
(view diff)
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bret
Made a native twitter video uploading module: https://www.npmjs.com/package/twitter-video
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loqi.me
created /clippy (+123) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by kylewm"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /lulz (+13) "/* Local */ clippy"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /clippy (+87) "📎"
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@davidpeach1
Finally got round to adding a bookmarklet to quickly add bookmark links to my website. #indieweb #indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/11x2WCK45Yo)
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dblogit.com
created /User:Dblogit.com (+316) "Add page and summary"
(view diff)
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dblogit.com
edited /User:Dblogit.com (+36) "Add github"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /clippy (+113) "see also wikify, try including in dfn too"
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tantek.com
edited /clippy (+0) "-mt"
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tantek.com
edited /clippy (-6) "0mt"
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tantek.com
edited /clippy (+5) "mt"
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gRegorLove
I released my ProcessWire webmention plugin and someone asked if WordPress can handle webmentions too. I gave a brief rundown and pointed them back here, so maybe we'll get some more WordPress indieweb interest, too. https://processwire.com/talk/topic/10486-module-webmention/?p=99162
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+95) "/* Contributions */ ProcessWire Webmention"
(view diff)
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tantek
welcome back shiflett, how was lunch? ;)
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kylewm
gRegorLove++
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Loqi
gRegorLove has 24 karma
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shiflett
tantek: Not bad. Went for a run. :-)
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shiflett
Cannot adjust to Boulder altitude, though. It's killing me.
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tantek
you'll adjust, and then if/when you run at lower altitudes you'll fly
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shiflett
Hope so.
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tantek
you know it's bad when a *blogging company's* blog post permalinks die http://www.sixapart.com/blog/2003/06/why-we-need-ech.html
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tantek.com
edited /Atom (+122) "/* Echo */ use archive.org link because this post (and the comments) are too much of a historical gem not to surface"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
tantek: Did you see https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/624056657329307648, where a startup blogged explicitly about dogfooding... on Medium
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@kevinmarks
so @frontendy, if you're slef-dogfooding your web-building product, why are you writing on medium and not your own site? #indieweb
(twtr.io/11vUKxaePE8)
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tantek
yeah, I just don't even
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gRegorLove
Their response was weak
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tantek
No one replied with the Inigo Montoyo video?
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tantek
That word [dogfood], I don't think it means what you think it means
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tantek
how is that not a meme?
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gRegorLove
"Not right now. We're focusing on our incredible journey."
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KevinMarks
hm, the old microformat generators would be great if they connected to micropub http://microformats.org/code/hcalendar/creator
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tantek
aaronpk - I don't think that's the right framegrab for Inigo
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tantek
IIRC that looks like a frame from a battle scene
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tantek
whereas I believe the "inconceivable" dialog takes place outdoors in the daylight
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tantek
the battle scene is more when he says like "... prepare to die"
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aaronpk
huh that's what showed up in an image search. oh well.
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tantek
tries to find a video clip
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gRegorLove
rabbithole++
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Loqi
rabbithole has 1 karma
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loqi.me
created /inconceivable (+162) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /inconceivable (+36) "see also, p-summary"
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tantek.com
edited /lulz (+67) "sort, inconceivable"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /Atom (+939) "/* RSS Atom wars */ opening shots, cite comments, provide analysis, and prescient quote!"
(view diff)
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tantek
cool - I can now use tantek.com/github/cassis rather than linking to github.com/tantek/cassis - question - is this a bad idea URL management-wise?
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aaronpk
interesting!
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tantek
similarly I've been able to use tantek.com/w/ instead of links to pbworks, thus creating links I control rather than they control, but that was easier as it was just a flat space of named pages
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tantek
(no hierarchy)
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@teleject
Weird being at a conference where people ask, "what's your channel?" and not "what's your web site?" #vidcon #indieweb
(twtr.io/11xA2T0cwQY)
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csarven
tantek Consider using tantek.com/source/cassis instead.
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tantek
csarven that would require designing a URL hierarchy for "/source"
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tantek
but point taken, similar to using /w instead of /pbworks
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csarven
As opposed to github/cassis ?
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tantek
right - no design needed, but rather forced by github's URL design
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csarven
If you can have /cassis that's probably best
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tantek
well I do, /cassis.js :)
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csarven
My reasoning was that, if github disappears, or you want to change the service or even the versioning system, it doesn't need to be tied to cassis in any way.
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tantek
right, that's a good reason to do my own /source URL design *at some point*
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tantek
yet as a stopgap, it's reasonable to use /github - and just copy / depend on their URL design
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tantek
because eventually if/when I switch to /source, I can redirect all the /github links to whatever URL design I come up with in the future
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tantek
without having to figure them out now
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tantek
but this was a good exercise to prove that a) I am dependent on github's URL design for now, and b) I can delay design of my own /source path until the point in time when I feel like doing so.
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tantek
goes to update his User: page accordingly
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atomicules
tantek: Why not just host your own code repository?
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aaronpk
baby steps
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tantek
atomicules, replacing my github path is much more than just "code repository"
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csarven
What is GitLab?
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Loqi
GitLab offers git repository management, code reviews, issue tracking, activity feeds and wikis https://indiewebcamp.com/GitLab
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aaronpk
yea...not trivial
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tantek
exactly. and until then, I'll wait for others for whom this is a bigger itch to work through POSSEing and backfeeding to/from Github: http://indiewebcamp.com/GitHub#POSSE_to_GitHub
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aaronpk
i'm running not one, but two GItlabs right now
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atomicules
Any new projects I'm using Fossil for and self-hosting. I'm keeping Github for my legacy projects.
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tantek
ditching github is not really practical until you have that working, unless you don't care about the "github community", which frankly, is the biggest reason most people use it, even those that would normally self host (e.g. W3C)
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atomicules
Fossil makes self-hosting a doddle.
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tantek
what is Fossil?
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aaronpk
because they made so many changes to the first version that I installed that an upgrade was not feasible
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Fossil" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100C
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atomicules
fossil-scm.org
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aaronpk
and now both of my instances are so far out of date that I can't upgrade either
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tantek
Fossil is fossil-scm.org.
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loqi.me
created /Fossil (+52) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-23/line/1437690394239 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk - perhaps add to /Gitlab#Criticism?
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atomicules
Right, back to lurking.
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snarfed
githubcommunity++
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Loqi
githubcommunity has 1 karma
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aaronpk
yeah the community is the main reason to use github
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aaronpk
as soon as cross-site/cross-silo code collaboration is possible then i'll host my own public repos
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@paulrobertlloyd
@jgarber Slavishly copy and pasting your webmention JavaScript, but nothing being displaying (but no errors); where should I start looking?
(twtr.io/11xBeKAUoRb)
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tantek.com
edited /User:Tantek.com (+871) "note silo use of Github, incremental indieweb steps (using URLs where I own the domain, then generic path, redirects, owning my repos etc.)"
(view diff)
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@paulrobertlloyd
@jgarber Also worth noting that I’m pointing to an endpoint over at webmention.io – will your scripts work with that JSON?
(twtr.io/11xBuFRb0rC)
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kylewm
atomicules: Fossil does not use git does it/
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kylewm
"In addition to doing distributed version control like Git and Mercurial" is ambiguous
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tantek
atomicules: another question while you're here, do you know when you first started POSSEing to Flickr? Could you provide a photo post permalink on your site of an example and the Flickr POSSE copy permalink also? https://indiewebcamp.com/Flickr#atomicules
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kevinmarks.com
edited /RSS (+426) "/* History */"
(view diff)
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@paulrobertlloyd
@jgarber Ah yes, rarely different output. May try to install your webmention server again!
(twtr.io/11xDsJzzM1s)
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+285) "/* 2011 */ add W3C Workshop on Identity in the Browser, tangentially indieweb related (web identity), but just a month before first IWC, and I attended/presented"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /code-of-conduct (+617) "open code of conduct subsection - how to use IWC code of conduct for your own org - please review!"
(view diff)
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tantek
I added a section about how you can use our code of conduct as an open code of conduct: https://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct#Open_Code_of_Conduct without claiming to be authoritative on anything etc. Just a you can use this if you want kind of thing
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tantek
please review!
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks good to me
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ben_thatmustbeme
in writing up my ideas on how groups should work, i have some ideas on how to make groups work in indieweb
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