#indiewebcamp 2015-07-24

2015-07-24 UTC
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: I'd be interested to hear it
#
aaronpk i just came back to irc to type up some thoughts i had about something similar
#
aaronpk i just had a situation where I wanted to POSSE to a destination (which happens to be a group) where on my iste I want to emphasize the group I am sharing to, rather than my current design which shows syndication destinations very small
#
aaronpk in this case, the POSSE destination adds context
#
tantek is a group like a mailing list?
#
aaronpk could be
#
tantek or is it like a Twitter list?
#
aaronpk in this case it's a Slack group
#
tantek this is the problem with the term "group" - it's so overloaded that that when you (anyone) says "how to make groups work" it could mean so many different things
#
aaronpk so yes, more like a mailing list
#
kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: a public or private group?
#
tantek aaronpk - an indieweb-based alternative for mailing lists that didn't suck could be interesting
#
tantek e.g. presumably it would be expected that all contributions to it would be POSSEd?
#
KevinMarks so kind of the way I use #indieweb on twitter to ping y'all in here?
#
aaronpk hehe hthere are so many variations of "group"
#
KevinMarks (It also is a tag on pinboard) https://pinboard.in/u:kevinmarks/t:indieweb/
#
tantek kylewm: private groups are interesting to me, specifically: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Private_Groups
rknLA, mlncn and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: start with public but private could work pretty easily
#
ben_thatmustbeme i figure a group (in the google+ communities sense of the word) is really just a collection of posts by
#
ben_thatmustbeme various authors, syndicated to an h-feed
#
tantek I think Google+ is a horrible example to use for the design of a "group" - their UX is awkward/clumsy IMO
#
tantek the example of FB private groups shows IMO how a group is not "really just a collection of posts"
#
tantek there's a lot of very deliberate UX design that went into FB groups
#
kylewm the news about Reddit lately is making me really wary about developing a public-by-default platform with no moderation tools
#
tantek IMO much more detailed and well thought-through than anything in G+
#
tantek kylewm: indeed
#
kylewm tantek: also LiveJournal...
#
kylewm their groups were amazingly good
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: how is it not just a collection of posts with the exception of being shared privately
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: see my previous link
#
ben_thatmustbeme obviously there are some additional parts like members list and invites
#
tantek thus it's misleading to use the "just a ..." framing
#
ben_thatmustbeme true
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking in terms of how simplest to post "to a group"
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was thinking, we already have tagging people via url
#
ben_thatmustbeme why not just the url of an h-feed
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I suppose I'm saying that's "just" a tag aggregator, not a group
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: that sounds a lot like how I want syndicating to indienews to work
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'm saying thats what a basic group is. privacy is taken at a different level, and yes there are a few other parts membership / inviting
#
aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues/9
#
ben_thatmustbeme which ovbiously woudl need to be worked out
#
tantek I'm saying "topic-centric" like that is not actually a "group"
#
ben_thatmustbeme "Post to it such that only those in the group can see it (expectation, future members could see it too) " that will be really interesting
#
tantek I'm saying that "group" brings an additional semantic of being more about the group of people, than the group of posts.
#
tantek And that's difficult to capture/express
#
tantek heck a group of posts is just a /collection
#
aaronpk do I need to build out indienews to work this way just to illustrate this point?
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: what point are you trying to illustrate?
#
aaronpk tantek's point
#
ben_thatmustbeme i know there is more to it
scor joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme but i'm staying its a good first step
#
ben_thatmustbeme s/tay/ay/
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: but i'm saying its a good first step
#
ben_thatmustbeme was trying to get a minimal working system, and yes its just a collection, but you start with a collection that others can write to
#
aaronpk that's why I suggested I implement it, so we can get past the first step :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme then you move to building up some system of "joining" and seeing other members
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: sounds great to me
#
ben_thatmustbeme we haven't even gotten direct mentions in private posts really working yet, private groups will be a whole other step
#
aaronpk i'm looking for someone to implement the other half of http://indiewebcamp.com/private-webmention with me!
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i'd be up for it
#
ben_thatmustbeme i have a rather long list of things i want to do still though
#
aaronpk meeee toooo
#
ben_thatmustbeme I feel like you and I are always trying to implement stuff first
#
ben_thatmustbeme vouch, swat0,
#
ben_thatmustbeme :D
#
aaronpk haha and yet i still feel so far behind sometimes
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, you don't even have snarks yet :P
#
tantek ok we need to document this complete lack of irony awareness
#
tantek what is Frontendy?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Frontendy" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100D
#
aaronpk lol
#
ben_thatmustbeme woah, loqi does short urls now?
#
Loqi dude
#
tantek Um, wat: "Through our past working experience we found that many companies don’t participate in dogfooding. Companies sell their solution to customers, yet they don’t see the need in using it themselves." - https://medium.com/@frontendy/be-the-early-adopters-of-your-product-d6888305ca6c
#
tantek are we sure this really isn't satire?
#
aaronpk probably not satire https://twitter.com/frontendy/status/624059156383842304
#
@frontendy Good question @kevinmarks. May be someday, but now we are focusing on a platform for building Saas applications. Thanks for reading. (twitter.com/_/status/624059156383842304)
#
tantek "Would your customers trust you if you didn’t eat at your own restaurant?" (!!!)
#
tantek @frontendy why aren't you eating at your own restaurant and instead eating at Medium's?
#
tantek "use your solution as early as you can and it will give you a head start in your journey of building a great product like it did for us at Frontendy." (!!!)
#
ben_thatmustbeme feels the need to comment
#
tantek @frontendy why aren't you using your solution as early as you can, and instead using Medium?
#
KevinMarks after all all the backend tools build a blog platform as their example
#
tantek "Frontendy is a web platform for rapid web application development."
#
tantek @frontendy how long will it take you to build a simple company blog on your "web platform for rapid web application development" instead of using Medium?
#
ben_thatmustbeme it is weird to get notified when you have been added to a list in twitter
#
tantek "We kick-start you with an infrastructure and all you have to build are web components specific to your business."
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, other difference between lists in twitter and "groups" or whatever you wish to call it. Direct control over adding your content to it
#
ben_thatmustbeme twitter just aggrigates
#
tantek @frontendy why are you not kick-starting your own blog with your infrastucture?
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek "After spending some time with Frontendy as a tool we confirmed that it is never too early to start ‘eating’ your own product." (!!!)
#
tantek @frontendy is it too early to build a blog using Frontendy?
#
tantek "Today we chose to build with our platform and this approach to web development has become natural for us." (!!!)
#
tantek @frontendy is using Medium to blog more natural for you than building with your platform?
#
tantek Unbelievable
#
tantek what is Frontendy?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Frontendy" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100E
#
reidab OpenID using the domain you don't use anymore: the gift that keeps on giving
#
aaronpk aw
#
aaronpk same is true for email to be fair
#
reidab yep
#
reidab I got around it by replacing my HTTP redirect with a blank page on the old domain with delegation info and a meta redirect :/
#
aaronpk heh nice
#
tantek Frontendy is frontendy.com, self-described "web platform for rapid web application development", that ironically wrote a post advocating [[dogfooding]] on [[Medium]] https://medium.com/@frontendy/be-the-early-adopters-of-your-product-d6888305ca6c instead of posting on their own site.[https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/624056657329307648]
#
@kevinmarks so @frontendy, if you're slef-dogfooding your web-building product, why are you writing on medium and not your own site? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/624056657329307648)
#
reidab I was going to use the indieauth delegation, but I didn't want to put the old domain on all my oauth providers (or be forced to always use GPG auth)
#
tantek oops
#
tantek Frontendy is frontendy.com, self-described "web platform for rapid web application development", that ironically wrote a post advocating [[dogfooding]] on [[Medium]] https://medium.com/@frontendy/be-the-early-adopters-of-your-product-d6888305ca6c instead of posting on their own site.
#
loqi.me created /Frontendy (+311) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-23/line/1437698900205 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronpk reidab: the email(persona) auth is a good choice in that case
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Frontendy (+92) "cite kevinmarks tweet, see also selfdogfood" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/624381509110083584
#
@dissolve333 @frontendy apparently its too early to be able to build a blog in your own tool. #selfdogfooding #fail (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/7/24/2/) (twitter.com/_/status/624381509110083584)
#
ben_thatmustbeme should have written that as a snark
#
aaronpk haha
#
tantek.com edited /Frontendy (+31) "p-summary" (view diff)
#
reidab aaronpk: ah, good point - I'll give that a try
#
tantek.com edited /Frontendy (+2) "move URL to link" (view diff)
Garbee joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Frontendy (+12) "<snark/>" (view diff)
#
tantek aaronpk: shouldn't that be Category:irony?
#
aaronpk oh man yes it should
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Frontendy (+9) (view diff)
#
aaronpk side note: interesting that mediawiki's use of the term "category" is the same as mf2!
#
tantek yeah
KevinMarks__, KevinMarks_, mdik and mlncn joined the channel
#
aaronpk noticing more and more #indieweb on hackernews https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9939418
#
aaronpk except that the blog post is js;dr
#
aaronpk sigh
KartikPrabhu and j12t joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://twitter.com/frontendy/status/624386780125507584
#
@frontendy @dissolve333 good idea for the next proof of concept, thanks! (twitter.com/_/status/624386780125507584)
#
aaronpk haha
#
ben_thatmustbeme a blog, how novel
#
aaronpk i can see the hackernews headline now
#
aaronpk "How we used Frontendy to build the Frontendy blog"
scor joined the channel
#
tantek well perhaps there's hope for frontendy
#
tantek I have a feeling they're realizing the irony of their Medium post, and hopefully rallying to the challenge internally
#
tantek oh dear: http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/23/linkedin-quietly-removes-option-to-export-contacts-makes-users-wait-up-to-72-hours-for-their-data-archive/
#
tantek silo raising their walls a bit higher
#
ben_thatmustbeme ew
#
tantek another for /LinkedIn#Criticism
#
ben_thatmustbeme note the date too, may end up on the timeline for site-deaths, hehe
#
ben_thatmustbeme maybe not site-deaths, but on their own timeline certainly
j12t joined the channel
#
aaronpk whee silos
chreekat, tantek, todrobbins and j12t joined the channel
#
tantek Just another brick in the(ir) wall.
#
aaronpk does Known micropub not support the "name" parameter?
Zegnat and j12t joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh maybe it's my bad
#
aaronpk yeah that was my fault :)
#
aaronpk ownyourgram now supports post-by-email!
#
aaronpk which means also post by mms
hidgw and todrobbins joined the channel
#
acegiak Having fun posting DnD stuff to my blog complete with Cheesy CSS
#
GWG Cheesy CSS?
#
acegiak https://acegiak.net/2015/07/24/dd-5th-edition-cleric-domain-travel/
#
acegiak parchment background, handwritten font for titles
#
GWG Oh
#
acegiak super kitch but also fun
#
GWG I'm doing something of limited utility.
#
GWG Putting spaces in arrays
#
acegiak why?
#
GWG WordPress Coding Standards
#
GWG Which mean spaces, and function documentation and such.
#
acegiak oh fun
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG It started when snarfed suggested unit tests for Micropub. I set up some testing tools. There was a WordPress test suite...which included the coding standards.
#
GWG So...
#
GWG Here I am.
#
GWG I'm setting up all my plugins for testing.
j12t, schmarty, KevinMarks_, tantek and cweiske joined the channel
#
cweiske !tell aaronpk, I get a blank page when trying to sign into your page.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk what page?
#
Loqi aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 40 seconds ago: get a blank page when trying to sign into your page. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-23/line/1437711326735
#
cweiske your home page
#
aaronpk oh huh
#
cweiske https://aaronparecki.com/signin.php?redirect=%2F&code=1437711307.GRMeNifUGygVakFSq7iOmbOMhlGH6Aud5_8Kb1OmcXWscP_RbDSK5NaLbdzdnzhptoDTVGAOzI0xjzEdh1-c6BZl22j2ca9WVH1HOgmOMKrjLcy2m0_G1GT3MPvv9-SrcbgRcd2vgG8MQ-bikj-zLkezqgfKXyHheDI1K_Taf-4gGXd8V_fyrQHLwTGvl1v48L9x-t5B116NBqhRvCuq8oV3dEeR58_lDQkb9WPFCc86Howl6zVkXJUi8nYYgDoZf7H59A1MGjD76Pbs-He9Y2uD3QJnzKaiIv-1Q_BCupNSflaf_J0Typqz6HOs6uE04aWme5k6UarIXHUzo8INS2h1mRjrNzLLsa5tORN_f60veobHY2XV
#
cweiske GDJx9kPZWoKMzYnDx7y-4BduN-VYylKOlKN2ikOofH-HM0ynkVJwT1Q2nnNBPvbU3ho7FUG-1Qr9PnhlTYAH5DaAXGRcmCXDe-b8e8_LuIW8kDkBlR4kNygP2QWjJoVE4KARPmT57wc-.LOw2abVS9AcpI5eX4OkyDA%3D%3D&me=http%3A%2F%2Fcweiske.de%2F
#
aaronpk weird!
#
aaronpk i will have to look later
scor, chreekat, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks__, gRegorLove, cweiske, sanduhrs and tantek joined the channel
#
@papapelz Alles, was #indieweb so mit sich bringt an Plugins ist installiert und läuft. Responses aus Twitter und FB laufen auch schick rein. #lt (twitter.com/_/status/624469357427621888)
#
atomicules Delayed responses, sorry bed called.
#
atomicules kylewm: No, Fossil isn't git. It's a different version control system altogether. It can import and export from git repos though.
tilgovi joined the channel
#
atomicules kylewm: But on the plus side it is low on dependencies, is one self-contained exe and has issues/tickets built in.
KevinMarks_, scor and Jihaisse joined the channel
#
atomicules tantek: For POSSEing to Flickr I have only tested with private photos so far, but my set-up does work
csarven joined the channel
#
atomicules tantek: Long story, but I like film photography, but wife/daughters like ponies and the money tends to go on ponies instead of film
#
atomicules tantek: So I have long gaps between getting stuff developed and uploaded
#
atomicules tantek: I'll see if I can find another photo so I can have an example post for the wiki though.
KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks__ and scor joined the channel
#
@tinokremer LinkedIn wants you to stay within their Silo: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2952414/downloading-your-linkedin-contacts-can-now-take-all-weekend.html #indieweb #freeyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/624481752350769152)
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__, j12t, loic_m, KartikPrabhu, scor, petermolnar, glennjones, lewisnyman and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
@johnnieingram So, is Facebook comment retrieval totally broken for #IndieWeb at the moment, or am I missing something? (twitter.com/_/status/624506504213889024)
Jihaisse joined the channel
#
@petermolnar @TransNOC @kevinmarks unfortunately, it's not, but doable. Thankfully we have http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Security to sum it up, feel free to add tips ;) (twitter.com/_/status/624507506396688384)
scor, Jihaisse, adactio and j12t joined the channel
#
voxpelli Is there any Micropub client today that publishes anything else than h-entries?
LauraJ and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
@NCREDINBURGH Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/624517428689678336)
Jihaisse and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
@0hjc RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/624518308021280768)
sivoais, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__, j12t, scor, frzn and jancborchardt joined the channel
#
petermolnar good morning
#
petermolnar had anyone seen this: https://thegrid.io/ ? any opinions?
scor joined the channel
#
acegiak petermolnar: creepy
#
petermolnar buzzword & venture money imho
#
petermolnar also, calling algorithms and learning patterns and AI is a bit of an overstatement
hugoroyd joined the channel
#
rhiaro I need to write something that pre-populates Quill from train website confirmation pages to post my travel plans
LanceyWork, uranther, j12t, scor, KevinMarks_, Pierre-O and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
petermolnar.eu edited /site-deaths (+341) "frontback.me" (view diff)
#
petermolnar.eu edited /site-deaths (+4) "/* Any Day Now */" (view diff)
benborges joined the channel
#
cweiske rhiaro, your webmentions work :)
#
rhiaro cweiske: sweet :)
#
rhiaro did wonder
#
rhiaro if you'd get that
#
cweiske I got a mail
#
rhiaro Nice when I'm just googling stuff and I find a site that receives webmentions by chance
#
rhiaro makes bookmarking things that much more satisfying
#
cweiske how do you get notified that the bookmarked link is linkback-enabled?
#
rhiaro I don't, I just assumed you did
j12t and MMN-o joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] http://davidpea.ch linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
scor joined the channel
#
KevinMarks petermolnar: the grid is actually pretty crap at its job: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/574630264485216256
#
@kevinmarks @Eliservescent @t @benwerd @royabear AI does bad crops and contrast? #thegrid hmmm https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/574630264485216256/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/574630264485216256)
lewisnyman, loic_m, LauraJ, j12t, CaptainCalliope, lewisnyman_, Pierre-O and petermolnar joined the channel
#
@Steven_Mitch RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/624578752257859584)
snarfed joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme anyone have any thoughts on a way to publicly post a join to a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme u-join-of?
#
ben_thatmustbeme assuming the group is at a specific URL
#
rhiaro oh yay, new post types
#
Loqi woot
#
rhiaro haven't thought about groups yet though
#
ben_thatmustbeme just starting to build up ideas on it
#
rhiaro could be similar to rsvping to events
#
rhiaro given that you could invite to groups, too
#
ben_thatmustbeme i was thinking that for invites indeed
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, hadn't considered the "No" to an invite to a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme well then there are two cases for joining a group, respond yes to an invite, or just directly join
#
ben_thatmustbeme i would prefer they be the same markup, or rather they could overlap
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i don't see anything on responding to an event invitation
#
@helloanselm See this list of site deaths. The internet forgets: https://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/624581411341770752)
#
rhiaro I've seen responding to event invitaitons somewhere
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: rel=member-of + a webmention? :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme ahh n to create an RSVP post in reply to the event post (and in reply to the invitation post!),
#
rhiaro That sounds about right
#
voxpelli ah, see now that your pointing at the activity of joining rather than the state of being a member
#
ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: hmm, that doesn't work well if you wanted a closed group
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: private webmention?
#
rhiaro I'd just rsvp to the group URL
#
ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: not a private group, a closed group
#
rhiaro Wouldn't it work the same as private any kind of posts?
#
ben_thatmustbeme so its a publicly readable group, but you want to "join" but then you have to be approved
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: will be hard to stop anyone from pretending to be part of your group?
#
ben_thatmustbeme just saying member-of is presuptuous to me
#
voxpelli so the receiver would have to moderate it
#
voxpelli well, all XFN relations are purely claimns – I can add a rel-me on my profile claiming that I am you :) But without a link back to my profile no one will believe me
#
ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: certainly, nothing to stop people from claiming to be part of the group, but its what is listed for members on the group that is the true "members"
wolftune joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmmm
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: so just like relmeauth you check that the link is bidirectional?
#
ben_thatmustbeme i suppose thats pretty simple, and doesn't need to introduce any new microformats
#
voxpelli (not sure if rel=member-of is actually the right wording though)
#
ben_thatmustbeme the question then becomes leaving a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats why i think the u-join-of / u-leave-of idea might work better
#
@MarkHummel3 RT @healthbankcoop: . @EricTopol on democratization of medicine, @healthbankcoop. http://www.vascularthinktank.com/#!Exclusive-Interview-Dr-Eric-Topol-on-the-Democratization-of-Medicine/c193z/559feb620cf2ba155ecd018d via @marcelsalathe #ownyourdata ht… (twitter.com/_/status/624582859161010176)
#
voxpelli WebMentions support deletions
#
ben_thatmustbeme i figured the group itself could be an h-feed but no author tag, instead a list of member h-cards
#
voxpelli I feel that membership is a state and should be expressed as a property of someones profile rather than as an activity in someones feed
#
ben_thatmustbeme webmention to the h-feed (u-category of the h-feef url) and it will get posted to the group (really just syndication to the group)
#
ben_thatmustbeme voxpelli: creating a post doesn't necessitate posting to a feed
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: then it's impossible for anyone who hasn't historically followed the feed to know if someone is a member or not and impossible to verify if the group's claim that I'm a member of them is actually true?
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, good point, group owner can add whoever they want
#
ben_thatmustbeme i suppose thats more like a twitter list then
#
voxpelli it's a bit like followers vs friends – a one-directional "rel-friend" is a follow while a bi-directional is a friend-relation
#
rhiaro I think both state and property are useful. You might want to keep track of when you join/leave groups. Which is also why just deleting the original join post isn't necessarily useful. Unless you create a deelte post..
#
rhiaro s/deelte/datestamped delete
#
Loqi rhiaro meant to say: I think both state and property are useful. You might want to keep track of when you join/leave groups. Which is also why just deleting the original join post isn't necessarily useful. Unless you create a datestamped delete post..
#
voxpelli rhiaro: absolutely! representing a join/leave as an activity is a good thing as well
#
voxpelli and I guess that's what eg. Facebook does – list groups you're a member of on your profile + announces that you join in your feed
#
ben_thatmustbeme but voxpelli is correct, it would be nice to have the bidirectional relationship
#
ben_thatmustbeme but i would not want to publicly list all groups i'm part of on my profile. indeed, i don't do that on FB
#
@orKoN RT @helloanselm: See this list of site deaths. The internet forgets: https://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/624584365775933440)
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: private-webmentions could show a private version of your profile to the ones you want to reveal the membership to?
#
Loqi [mention] https://petermolnar.eu/r/transnoc-kevinmarks-unfortunately-its-not linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Security (webmention)
#
voxpelli (I'm partly guessing, haven't looked that hard into the proposal for private-webmentions yet)
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i'm trying to keep totally private out of it for now, just to keep simplicity. was trying to account for various public types though
#
ben_thatmustbeme like being part of a group and not publishing it (hidden URL), and approval to join a group, etc
#
ben_thatmustbeme i may already be considering too much and perhaps we should just get joining / leaving a totally public group working, build from there
#
ben_thatmustbeme so, the other question I had was about comments on posts in the group. if someone outside the group comments on a post in the group (assuming the salmention comes up to the group) should it be shown as a response to the post from within the group h-feed or not?
#
voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: that's up to each implementation I think
#
@petermolnar @johnnieingram did you receive my webmention from https://petermolnar.eu/r/re-on-returning-to-the-belly-of-the-beast for your entry? (twitter.com/_/status/624585764991598592)
#
ben_thatmustbeme i think it might be odd only showing replies from those in the group. the reply conversation could get really confusing otherwise
#
ben_thatmustbeme ideally if its a group post, you only accept replies from those in the group
#
ben_thatmustbeme but again, up to the implementation i suppose
#
voxpelli I would probably accept and save all of the data and then experiment with the presentation of it
fourtonfish and keroberos joined the channel
#
Kongaloosh Question: is there a good example of posts with image collections, or albums?
Garbee, j12t and chalettu joined the channel
#
@NthDesignMktg RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/624592447755018241)
#
@papapelz Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twitter.com/_/status/624592599899181056)
#
@fruehesvogerl RT @papapelz: Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twitter.com/_/status/624593947919159296)
lewisnyman, snarfed, shiflett, j12t and tantek joined the channel
#
@MorrisPelzel New #diigo bookmark: IndieWebify.Me--a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/#send-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/624605353599045632)
lewisnyman_, snarfed, mlncn and lewisnyman joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: I saw your audio thing. Why CPT?
#
petermolnar cpt?
#
tantek what is thegrid.io?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "thegrid.io" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100F
#
tantek what is CPT?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CPT" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100G
lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek reads logs
#
ben_thatmustbeme is sure tantek will have input on discussion from early
#
aaronpk hehe
#
ben_thatmustbeme s/early/earlier
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: is sure tantek will have input on discussion from earlier
#
tantek hey ben_thatmustbeme I suggest before working on groups that you try getting /event and /rsvp posting working
#
ben_thatmustbeme i have rsvp working, but not events
#
tantek doing so will help you explore many related issues to groups
#
tantek since an event is kind of like an ephemeral group
#
tantek and in some cases, the comment threads / discussions on an event keep going long after the event itself, thus acting effectively like a group
#
tantek and events have /invitation too
#
tantek so I'd say get those three working - /event /RSVP /invitation and you'll be most of the way towards understanding how groups could work
#
ben_thatmustbeme probably a good idea
#
tantek since those are "solved" problems
#
aaronpk interesting how much overlap there is!
#
ben_thatmustbeme well i understand how they work, just haven't coded them yet
#
GWG CPT is short for Custom Post Type, a confusingly named WordPress feature.
#
loqi.me created /CPT (+101) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-24/line/1437753577221 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
tantek aaronpk - I'm always looking for the simpler solved thing
#
ben_thatmustbeme though i'm sure more understanding will come with coding
tilgovi joined the channel
#
petermolnar custom post -> because it's special enought to be a custom post, in my opinion; I also need custom taxonomy for a, sanity b, easy search options
#
petermolnar but to be honest, I'll probably drop that project; I've added a last.fm import to it and loaded my last.fm zip without realizing I'm just about to add 4k album, 1k artist and ~10k entries
#
aaronpk haha that's gonna be great petermolnar
#
Loqi hehe
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: more understanding will come with building a functional UX flow for yourself
#
GWG petermolnar: I might pick up some of the code.
#
tantek more so than the actual coding
#
petermolnar GWG by the way, I had to rename it from audioscrobbler; I wasn't aware that 'audioscrobbler' is a trademarked name
#
@2kindchaos_mo RT @papapelz: Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twitter.com/_/status/624612437833035777)
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: I don't scrobble really. So I will probably not rush
#
aaronpk i can't wait til I can scrobble
#
GWG aaronpk: Why?
#
tantek is it in your itches?
#
petermolnar off to home, be back later
#
aaronpk cause i have a ton of data on two different last.fm accounts and I want them in one place
#
GWG aaronpk: Oh.
#
tantek anyway - I would avoid any attempt at pre-designing "group" posts / markup until you have at least a skeleton UX flow figured out *and documented* (e.g. with sketches / screenshots)
#
tantek otherwise you're likely to design markup / details for something which is frankly not very user friendly
#
tantek so you'll figure out lots of logical details, for something that doesn't actually provide good user functionality
#
GWG I am trying to figure out how to mix implied and explicit types in a system
#
tantek GWG, rhiaro had some good thoughts on that
#
tantek mostly about original posts vs. /responses
#
GWG tantek: Where can I find those thoughts?
#
tantek I'm not sure if she captured them anywhere beyond IRC - though I think she blogged a bit about it a while ago
#
GWG I have to work within an existing structure, which can be challenging
#
rhiaro possibly rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types
#
tantek that's the one
#
rhiaro though my thinking has moved on a bit since
#
tantek keeps reading this morning's log and sees a bit too much plumbing-focused discussion :P
#
aaronpk that's funny, that's what happened with my post about post types
#
GWG That is why I am looking at Micropub.
#
tantek look I know it's tempting to jump to how to markup - because that's the *easier* problem to solve. but you'll likely end up with a poor solution overall.
#
aaronpk this one from 2012 http://aaron.pk/a4La1
#
tantek it's harder, but you absolutely must focus on first figuring out good UX flow, and prototyping, *before* you jump into markup nitty gritty
#
aaronpk hey looks like that's when I was starting to think about micropub!
#
tantek it's almost analogous to bikeshedding - that is, it's much easier to argue about the paint color, than how to build the reactor, so people debate the paint color first
#
aaronpk wow none of my bike sheds have a reactor in them!
#
GWG tantek: In my cser, I am building an addition on my house.
#
tantek voxpelli++ for bring the conversation back to the UX of "what eg. Facebook does"
#
Loqi voxpelli has 35 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: when you require at least two people its good to at least get some ideas out on the subject though
#
tantek aaronpk - the point is the bikeshed is supposed to be *an addition* to the reactor
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats more what that was about this morning, its not like we are spending a lot of time on it
#
tantek and yes, by obsessing over a bike shed design, you end up never actually building the reactor
#
GWG And I have to deal with the local landmark preservation board
#
aaronpk GWG++
#
Loqi GWG has 112 karma
#
aaronpk lol
#
tantek also I agree with figuring out private webmentions with the *simple* use-case of private messaging
#
tantek get a bunch of those working, then we can talk about how private webmentions could be used as a building block for other things
#
tantek Kongaloosh: re: "good example of posts with image collections, or albums?" did you see /collection ?
#
aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+136) "/* itching */" (view diff)
#
tantek is caught up on logs
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: the other thing about groups - by its fundamental nature, to be useful you're going to have to convince A BUNCH of other people to implement it
#
ben_thatmustbeme i know
#
tantek since that's the case for groups, that makes /event /RSVP /invitation a much better starting point to understand that phenomenon
#
tantek since a BUNCH of people have already implemented /event /RSVP /invitation
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats why i wanted to look at other similar ideas
#
tantek note that the FB "invite friends" UI for an event even shows previous events as if they were groups from which to choose people to invite from!
#
ben_thatmustbeme also, the reason for starting with public (maybe even auto-joined) groups. put no barier to joining the group or even any implementation needed on those that want to "join"
#
tantek so the whole event -> group thing is very much true in practice
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: so start with public events
#
tantek with no barrier to RSVPing or inviting others to them
#
tantek it really is a very similar UX flow
#
tantek but one that's much more implemented and understood
#
tantek heck you could even hack an event *into* a group by making it last e.g. for years (dt-start to dt-end)
j12t and ttepasse joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme heh
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-97) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, with events in FB newest posts lists first don't they?
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-1) "/* Maybes */" (view diff)
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+0) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
benwerd, tilgovi and wolftune joined the channel
#
@bass4TheBeatDlz @TheIndieAuth @TheBeatDolls Thx IndieAuth!!!! (twitter.com/_/status/624623842665730048)
tilgovi, gRegorLove and ttepasse joined the channel
#
@t Social Web Acid Test v0 #SWAT0 @IndieWebCamp 2015 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/ 3 people/sites/implementations. (ttk.me t4cL1) (twitter.com/_/status/624624486529265664)
#
@benwerd Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/624627292413628416)
#
Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller posted 'Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #e...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (http://werd.io/2015/edinburgh-i-highly-recommend-indiewebcamp-great-ideas-great-people-you)
#
@Tim_beta_2015 RT @t: Social Web Acid Test v0 #SWAT0 @IndieWebCamp 2015 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/ 3 people/sites/implementations. (ttk.me t4cL1) (twitter.com/_/status/624627817054142464)
#
@nitot RT @benwerd: Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #edi… (twitter.com/_/status/624628052211945472)
lewisnyman, ttepasse and greenhac joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Tristan Nitot retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/nitot/status/624628052211945472)
j12t joined the channel
#
voxpelli aaronpk: how does one disable an OwnYourGram stream? I might have created some now during testing that I might want to disable
#
aaronpk ooh
#
aaronpk i think if you un-authorize the app in the instagram account it will stop
#
aaronpk note that one instagram account only sends to one micropub endpoint, so if you've been using the same IG account it's only sending it to the last micropub endpoint you signed in with
#
voxpelli ah, good, then that solves it :)
#
voxpelli aaronpk: also think I pinpointed the problem I had: I was sneaky and used a not-yet-live domain name for my test blog – with a Micropub discovery elsewhere – as a last resort I moved to a real domain name and now it works
#
voxpelli not sure why that would make a difference
#
aaronpk not-yet-live domain as in there was no DNS for it?
#
voxpelli yes
#
aaronpk so a micropub client wouldn't be able to find it
#
voxpelli well, I used a different site for the discovery
#
tantek voxpelli: what is ownyourauth?
#
aaronpk i'm not sure i follow
#
voxpelli aaronpk: basic conclusion: I did hackish stuff that broke something within OwnYourGram despite it working with eg. Quill :)
#
tantek what is ownyourauth?
ttepasse joined the channel
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ownyourauth" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100H
#
tantek wat
#
voxpelli tantek: OwnYourAuth?
#
aaronpk first i've heard of this OwnYourAuth thing
#
tantek ownyourauth is /FreeMyOAuth
#
loqi.me created /ownyourauth (+24) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-24/line/1437758778703 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
tantek that's what I meant
#
aaronpk voxpelli: strange, yeah i'm not sure why it would work with Quill but not OwnYourGram
#
aaronpk wow so many broken images
#
tantek I wonder if there is a way with Youtube embeds to specify the "closing" frame too - like even just telling it to redisplay the poster frame when its done playing
#
tantek e.g. in the iframe embed of youtube on my site
#
tantek when someone plays it inline right there on my site, I feel like I should have some control over that, as the person doing the embedding
benwerd and snarfed joined the channel
#
@AutismU @nickreeldx @danmunro We made you the records custodian on our portal. #democratizehealth #ownyourdata #hitsm (twitter.com/_/status/624634522722811904)
#
rhiaro Quick, anyone else have a pet on the indieweb?
#
rhiaro We've decided we should name the rooms Dora, Tigo and ...
#
aaronpk :D
#
rhiaro Well, ping me if anyone has any ideas
#
aaronpk i think I've seen ben_thatmustbeme's dog on a livestream before
#
rhiaro That's promising
#
tantek should I make a site for my roomba?
#
tantek does Loqi have its own site?
#
rhiaro does your roomba have a cute 4 letter name?
#
rhiaro oh, loqi!
#
rhiaro Perfect
#
aaronpk http://loqi.me
#
Loqi dude
#
tbrb woo!
#
tantek welcome tbrb!
#
tbrb Hi
#
aaronpk haha they are all 4-letter names, that's great
#
rhiaro (tbrb is helping me iron out IWCEdi right now)
#
aaronpk if I get another pet its name is going to be Miso
#
aaronpk (do re mi so... get it?) tehehe
#
tantek sorry if I get a pet cat it will have a 3 letter nae
#
tantek s/nae/name
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: sorry if I get a pet cat it will have a 3 letter name
#
tantek https://twitter.com/t/status/606265907233456130
#
@t If I ever get a cat I'm naming it str. (ttk.me t4bV1) (twitter.com/_/status/606265907233456130)
#
ben_thatmustbeme eh? whats up?
#
ben_thatmustbeme hah, str, cat
#
ben_thatmustbeme not tac?
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: my dog's name is Pause
#
ben_thatmustbeme they should make a .woof and .meow TLD
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
rhiaro ben_thatmsutbeme: if Pause gets a blog in the next half hour, we'll name a room at IWCEdi after him
#
jgraham909.com edited /2015/Guest_List (-2) "change personal url for Jeff Graham" (view diff)
#
aaronpk rhiaro: maybe you can name the break room after ben's dog
#
rhiaro That's perfect.
#
rhiaro There's not really an explicit break room, but I could stick a 'Pause' sign on the coffee machine :)
#
@papapelz @sys_adm_ama Ich würd ja gern diesen <link href indieauth bla> auf papapelz.de draufnehmen, wenn ich wüsste, wo das hin muss. #startseite (twitter.com/_/status/624638535006613504)
#
rhiaro aaronpk: preferred photo for Dora's room sign?
#
aaronpk https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2015/06/24/1/soupcat or https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2015/04/04/5/selfie
#
rhiaro hehe. adorable.
#
aaronpk whoa, where did this "1 like" come from? https://twitter.com/MicropubInfo/status/624637159954210816
#
@MicropubInfo 1 like: Just made a email-to-Micropub gateway, built into OwnYourGram! If you want to try it out, go to OwnYou... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/23/1/&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNE44WBwOQ8Jvf_DtpzWOy57gMAD-g&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/624637159954210816)
jciv and _6a68 joined the channel
#
_6a68 anybody know of indie web projects that POSSE personal email?
#
Loqi _6a68: barnabywalters left you a message on 9/25 at 12:29pm: Re: science captchas, for me it’d have to be this question: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_water_is_dissovled_in_water_what_is_the_water
#
_6a68 thanks, Loqi
#
@macleodan I'm going to the #IndieWeb Camp in Edinburgh tomorrow. (twitter.com/_/status/624643935839866880)
#
indiewebcat.com edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+311) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+350) "/* Remote Participants */ add myself, sort" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme haha, rhiaro excellent
#
ben_thatmustbeme i do plan to get pause his own blog
#
ben_thatmustbeme as well as my daughters, but they will be just syndications of posts to my site
#
ben_thatmustbeme its one of the reasons i want to get micropub chaining working well
#
ben_thatmustbeme just adds as a syndicate-to option in all my posting interfaces
#
tantek _6a68: see http://indiewebcamp.com/email#IndieWeb_Examples
j12t joined the channel
#
KevinMarks I ave a dog named Abby if you want 4 letter pets
#
KevinMarks (also Katie, Phoebe and Ceophie dogs )
#
KevinMarks she doesn't have an indieweb presence though
#
kylewm cat's name is Junebug but we call her June, does that count?
#
KevinMarks early indieauth-like comment form Dare: http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2007/08/13/AProposalForSocialNetworkInteroperabilityViaOpenID.aspx
#
kylewm I thought fiatjaf had a email to webmention gateway of some sort
#
kylewm what is Questo.email
#
Loqi questo.email is an indieweb/email bridge https://indiewebcamp.com/questo.email
frzn joined the channel
#
KevinMarks so, micropub currently says use indieauth
#
kylewm I could give them a proxy homepage to login to micropub with... like https://silo.pub/username.tumblr.com
#
kylewm that's what snarfed recommended for silo.pub to twitter
#
KevinMarks right
#
KevinMarks that does reentralize
#
KevinMarks s/reentralize/recentralize/
#
Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: that does recentralize
#
kylewm fastmail does a thing where you can use them as your nameserver (easy), or they give you the DKIM SPF stuff to set up on your own nameserver (more difficult)
#
kylewm it could be like that
#
KevinMarks it's like what aaronpk did ro slack
#
KevinMarks if you implement both and explain why, then you're effectively AB testing it
#
KevinMarks the other thing is that a micropub client could ask for your URL, and if they put in a silo.pub supported one, redirect them to you
#
voxpelli if you we're to not require discovery of authentication and micropub endpoint at the same place then the two would get more separated
#
voxpelli so there would be two steps – one for where you want to post, silo.pub, and another of who you are, that can be done through eg. IndieAuth
#
aaronpk That sounds related to my thoughts on the token endpoint telling the client which Micropub endpoint to use
#
voxpelli that was what I suggested for multiple micropub endpoints per user
#
voxpelli aaronpk: yeah, haven't gotten around to actually read your proposal on the wiki yet :P
#
KevinMarks it fits in with the micropub chaining too - if you want an instagram-like fanout model
#
voxpelli aaronpk's thoughts: http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Multiple_Micropub_Endpoints
#
KevinMarks at the moment that needs to be supported by the micropub server
#
voxpelli is the chaining ideas documented anywhere?
#
KevinMarks so you could have micropub middleware that brokers that
#
KevinMarks micropublican
#
aaronpk This also sounds like the oft-conflated authorization vs identification problem
#
aaronpk Ultimately a Micropub client shouldn't need to know who a user is, it just needs an access token and Micropub endpoint
#
@kevinmarks @hover you should have a look at the indieweb plugins - a good way to connect to other social media sites and silos (twitter.com/_/status/624656413311152128)
#
KevinMarks right, but at the moment it has to do an indieauth handshake to get one
wolftune joined the channel
#
kylewm ideally, they would go to Quill, put in their tumblr site, get redirected to a tumblr page like "Do you want to authorize silo.pub to post to this site", they'd say yes, and off you go
#
kylewm that should be relatively easy to implement and would not require the rel=me step
#
voxpelli kylewm: that would require special handling by Quill, no?
#
kylewm nah I don't think so, not if their authorization_endpoint was silo.pub -- it would transparently redirect to tumblr's oauth page
#
KevinMarks so you'd still need to put micropub and indieauth links in, but not rel-me's
#
kylewm yes
#
KevinMarks saves a vsible edit and an auth step
#
Jeena my website now also supports micropub posting of photos, weeee!
#
Jeena but I only tested it with my own implementation I hacked into Quill, so we'll see if it works with other implementations too
#
KevinMarks the more subversive answer is that Quill (or whatever) detects a tumblr/blogger/wp url and redirects them through silo.pub/blah
#
aaronpk oy
#
KevinMarks the fully lazy way is that you always do silo.pub/{url} and it routes them back to real indieauth
petermolnar joined the channel
#
kodfabrik.se edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+1259) "documented alternative possible flow for multiple micropub endpoints" (view diff)
#
voxpelli aaronpk: not sure if that's the proper way to continue the brainstorm there – I guess I ideally should have left some feedback on your proposed spec as well, will try to do that soon as well
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+162) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
#
voxpelli kylewm: true, that should be doable
#
voxpelli probably breaks a couple of ToS:es but anyhow :)
#
kylewm hehehe
#
voxpelli kylewm: also – have any feedback on that wiki brainstorm?
#
kylewm voxpelli: on my queue of things to read through but I can't just now :/
#
KevinMarks here's abby: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/abby-gamer-poodle
#
gRegorLove ben_thatmustbeme: Are you still using /Vouch? Do you maintain a list of referers that you don't check, like search engines, t.co, etc?
#
gRegorLove I don't have /Vouch fully working, but the processing of referers is running. Wondering the best way of not listing those as vouches.
#
KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/abby-ponders-which-indieweb-tool-to-host-her-website
#
aaronpk voxpelli: i'm not sure i follow your thoughts exactly
#
aaronpk i might need to see a little more about the interactions between the different compoenets
#
rhiaro KevinMarks, Abby and Tigo should hang out https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/548372474/1414355747/1500x500
#
aaronpk like where does the token come from? and how is it verified?
#
aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:choose-micropub-endpoint-mockup.png]]""
#
voxpelli aaronpk: the token comes from the IndieAuth endpoint and is verified by the Micropub endpoint just like before – the discovery is just separated
#
voxpelli all Micropub endpoints already knows how to verify acceptable IndieAuth tokens
davemenninger joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh here's another thought
#
aaronpk what if the client discovers the authorization endpoint by asking the micropub endpoint where it is
#
kylewm KevinMarks: you need to update your OpenSSL, it looks like you are vulnerable to POODLE
#
kylewm (hopes no one already made that joke)
#
voxpelli aaronpk: that wouldn't work very well for multiauthor blogs
#
voxpelli and also makes identity discoverable from the micropub endpoint again
#
aaronpk hm, i think it just means the multiauthor blog would need to implement its own auth endpoint
#
aaronpk i thought that's what we were going for?
#
ben_thatmustbeme gRegorLove: no, i check them all, i really should maintain such a list
#
ben_thatmustbeme and yes, i'm still using it
tvn joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme if anyone is on my whitelist they get through immediately though, i don't even store the vouch they send
#
gRegorLove Cool. I'll use you as a test once I get it working :)
#
aaronpk gRegorLove: I verify vouches too
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk the comment will show "vouched for by ___"
#
voxpelli aaronpk: if the auth endpoint can't be found at the site where you want to publish to as it needs to be today, then why not ask the user to present authorization itself?
#
ben_thatmustbeme i can remove you from my whitelist if you like gRegorLove, for testing perposes
#
aaronpk voxpelli: i guess i don't follow the user flow in that case
#
ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/whitelist
#
gRegorLove Sure, though it will be a while until I'm ready, probably.
#
voxpelli aaronpk: if I invite you to guestblog at a blog of mine, then you go to a micropub client and say that you want to publish to it and then gives an authorization using your own site
#
ben_thatmustbeme okay, just let me know
#
gRegorLove I'll ping you when I'm ready to test
#
aaronpk i think there are two different problems people are trying to solve here
#
aaronpk 1) a user has their own identity, like aaronparecki.com, and wants to publish to multiple different locations (guest blogs, whatever)
#
aaronpk 2) a user has a micropub endpoint (like silo.pub) and doesn't care about the identity
#
KevinMarks well, more that they have a silo identity
#
KevinMarks twitter, blogger, tumblr, wp etc
#
voxpelli true – the solution kylewm suggested solves 2, the comments I gave on the wiki solves 1
#
aaronpk there are really two questions: who are you? and where do you want to post?
#
voxpelli yes, or rather: how do you want to provide authorization? and where do you want to post using them? So we avoid that identity issue
#
voxpelli identity issue as in authentication != authorization
#
aaronpk yes except from the user's POV they are identifying themselves
#
aaronpk and in order to provide authorization, they do have to provide authentication anyway (authenticating at the authorization endpoint)
#
aaronpk and any micropub endpoint is going to want to know *who* is making the post, in order to add authorship info to the entry
KartikPrabhu and snarfed joined the channel
#
KevinMarks lol https://twitter.com/HazelMcKendrick/status/624605558310473728
#
@HazelMcKendrick I know it's wrong to make fun of web development but sometimes it makes that really fucking hard https://twitter.com/niccaluim/status/624261446550032384/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/624605558310473728)
#
@gRegorLove @johannesdachsel @justb3a I finally released the ProcessWire Webmention module. Would love your feedback. https://processwire.com/talk/topic/10486-module-webmention/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/624676033569009664)
#
aaronpk best response https://twitter.com/0x0961h/status/624509586964414465
#
@0x0961h @davebarr @niccaluim Like in Hey, I just call()ed you And this is crazy But here's my browser So playMeMaybe() (twitter.com/_/status/624509586964414465)
#
gRegorLove Haha
#
KartikPrabhu is rading back logs
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu Kongaloosh: does this count as an image collection, https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/walk-work ?
chreekat joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Cσϻϻλπdσ Ƙιττψ replied '@benwerd I wish American's would stop trying to export their authoritarian convos and expos across the sea. Seriously, just no. Stop it.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/InvisibleJimBSH/status/624681596919128064)
#
KartikPrabhu err what?
loic_m, tilgovi and tvn joined the channel
#
gRegorLove How's the raiding, KartikPrabhu? ;)
#
KartikPrabhu finished rading the logs :P
#
Kongaloosh KartikPrabhu: indeed, that's just what I was looking for!
#
Kongaloosh cheers!
#
KartikPrabhu Kongaloosh: :) I just publish them as usual HTML with a u-photo on each photo/image
#
Kongaloosh cool
#
Kongaloosh how do you store them?
#
KartikPrabhu right now they are on Google Photos because I haven't figured out a good photo hosting solution
#
Loqi [bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@invisiblejimbsh Huh?' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/624685717394853888)
#
KartikPrabhu but I really want to self-host them
#
Kongaloosh ah
#
Kongaloosh good to know
#
KartikPrabhu also Google Photos allows for getting different sizes of the image by changing a URL parameter, which I use to "responsive images"
#
Kongaloosh ahhh
#
Kongaloosh I'm self-hosting right now
#
Kongaloosh but that may be a good backup
#
KartikPrabhu nice. any particular library you use or just store them as files?
#
Kongaloosh right now I just dump them in drive
#
Kongaloosh I just store them as files
#
Kongaloosh with the same name as their .md post parent
#
KartikPrabhu cool! I do that with static images, but for photos I'd like to have the query by size feature
#
Kongaloosh yes, which seems sensible
#
Kongaloosh it's a bit of a trade off
#
Kongaloosh right now photos have to be their own post
#
Kongaloosh and 'albums' are collections of posts with associated images
#
KartikPrabhu that is a good way to do it. It would also be nice to have a bulk uploading UI to an album, then the post could simply collect all images from an album and display them
#
KartikPrabhu all this is in my future itch-list for photo :)
atomicules joined the channel
#
snarfed so, i dug a bit into all the FB API parts that got cut in 2.4 and will disappear in october (read_stream, shares, event invitees, event likes, http://indiewebcamp.com/me/home, - https://developers.facebook.com/docs/apps/changelog#v2_4_deprecations )
#
snarfed from what i can tell, losing /me/home will entirely kill https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ :(:(:(
#
KartikPrabhu oh no!
#
snarfed details: https://github.com/snarfed/facebook-atom/issues/6
#
snarfed sad. RIP FB in my reader :(
#
Kongaloosh KartikPrabhu: same here, I'd like to bulk it
#
KartikPrabhu Kongaloosh: my current process is documented here: http://indiewebcamp.com/photo#Kartik_Prabhu you should add your process too
#
snarfed looks like >1k facebook-atom users right now. sad that they'll all lose it too
#
snarfed sigh
#
kartikprabhu.com edited /photo (-63) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ edit POSSE copies of examples" (view diff)
#
Kongaloosh cheers
#
@papapelz @mamaskind_de Kennst du dich mit #indieweb und WP in lieblicher Einigkeit aus? :) @2kindchaos @2kindchaos_mo (twitter.com/_/status/624690917082038272)
#
KartikPrabhu snarfed: that is bad! It seems FB is hell bent on locking people in.
#
KartikPrabhu good thing I mostly ignore FB
#
aaronpk wow that's too bad
#
snarfed i'm hoping there's some new way somewhere
#
snarfed …but not optimistic. their messaging isn't "use this new thing instead," it's "no news feed any more." period.
#
gRegorLove "2-year deprecations"? meaning it will work for 2 more years?
#
snarfed gRegorLove: yup that's what those mean. 2-3y deprecations are common for big platforms.
#
snarfed …except /me/home and read_stream are 90-day deprecations
#
GWG snarfed: I resisted joining Facebook long after most people did. Buy that is where people who aren't anywhere else are. Like relatives
#
@ClayFerguson @t @indiewebcamp #SWAT0 @jcr @jackrabbit What will become the Federated Web of Social Portals built w/ OakJCR? Answer http://meta64.com (twitter.com/_/status/624698602653249536)
tantek, _fran and tvn joined the channel
#
@portenkirchner Interview with @aaronparecki http://notizblog.org/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/624718122164047872)
_fran, KartikPrabhu, shiflett, smus, kronda_, ramsey_, voxpelli_ and slvrbckt_ joined the channel
#
j12t aaronpk: congratulations! Nice interview!
#
Loqi j12t: tantek left you a message 3 weeks ago: you host your own CalDAV server right? which personal site do you have it on? Or perhaps just add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/caldav#IndieWeb_Examples ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-05/line/1433546259556
KartikPrabhu joined the channel