#indiewebcamp 2015-07-26

2015-07-26 UTC
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snarfed …on to the next ruby breakage. :/ bundle exec … says "Could not find rake-10.4.0 in any of the sources; Run `bundle install` to install missing gems."
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snarfed bundle install and bundle check both ran happily. all of the libs are installed in vendor/bundle/ruby/2.0.0/ , which seems odd, since i'm using ruby 2.1.6 (checked with ruby -v)
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snarfed i'm starting to feel like god is trying to tell me something
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aaronpk eh if it runs i wouldn't worry about it
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snarfed it doesn't
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snarfed i definitely wouldn't worry if it ran :P
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aaronpk oh
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snarfed working on it, let me know if you have any instincts
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aaronpk that is bizarre...
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aaronpk no idea. normally my gems get installed in ~/.gem/ruby/2.1.6
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aaronpk i don't actually know how that is decided. my ruby skillz are like not that great
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snarfed heh. at least yours exist :P
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snarfed ok. i'll keep poking
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aaronpk k, sorry!
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snarfed np! not your fault
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GWG snarfed: You use the WordPress Post UI to write things, right?
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snarfed GWG: nah, emacs and markdown
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GWG snarfed: Interesting.
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GWG How do you get it into WordPress then?
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snarfed a markdown plugin and https://snarfed.org/blogpost
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snarfed http://github.com/snarfed/snarfed.org is the canonical source
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snarfed oh btw GWG np on delaying unit tests, but you should still finish up https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/pull/15 regardless! it'd be good to get in
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GWG snarfed: I fixed it and sent it back to you a few days ago
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Loqi slack/snarfed: GWG: oh! thanks, I'll look. i don't automatically follow your fork and get notified of your commits, so you'll want to comment in the PR when you do that
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GWG Oops
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GWG Sorry for the delay. My cousin was on TV and I went to go try to spot him
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@avilarenata RT @conflictmedia: Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #i… (twitter.com/_/status/625126100876722177)
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@carimachet RT @conflictmedia: Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #i… (twitter.com/_/status/625126492192813056)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (-27) "/* TODO */ update and reoganize a little bit" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+92) "/* TODO */ ideas for how to proceed." (view diff)
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I had a question for you, but can't remember what it was. This is my declaration.
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ben_thatmustbeme damn, now i went and opened this room, i'll lose my place tomorrow
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ben_thatmustbeme all well
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: aaronpk left you a message 11 hours, 30 minutes ago: I filled in a bunch of the brainstorming page, would be great to get your thoughts on how alice would get a bearer token for the syndication target: http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-brainstorming http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437836286441
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KevinMarks there's always the webpage
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i'll read it tomorrow
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ben_thatmustbeme bleary eyed right now
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KevinMarks discovers that Apple Time Machine doesn't GC backups
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ben_thatmustbeme also have idea on how to make that work for syndication. pretty simple
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ben_thatmustbeme okay
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ben_thatmustbeme goodnight
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GWG !tell acegiak I have some more crazy ideas and need a WordPress user to run them by when you have a moment
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak GWG: I'm listening
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 minute ago: I have some more crazy ideas and need a WordPress user to run them by when you have a moment http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437877929538
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GWG acegiak: I'm reworking the meta data by moving the functions to process it from the save_post code to the Meta class I created.
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GWG acegiak: While I was doing that, it occurred to me that I could pass a query parameter into post-new.php and preset the kind in the selector.
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acegiak net
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acegiak neat*
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GWG acegiak: Which made me think...if I tell it what kind I want, why can't I customize the input section based on that?
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acegiak :/
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GWG I had been avoiding it because I don't do much JS, which would be required to do it.
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GWG But this way, it could be done in PHP
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acegiak as in prepopulating the fields?
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acegiak or hiding the irrelevant ones?
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GWG acegiak: Hiding the irrelevant ones.
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GWG And altering the title to help newer people understand what goes in them
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GWG Then I could add a menu to the menu bar on the dashboard to quickly head to the presets
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acegiak GWG: I'm hella skeptical of hiding fields
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acegiak that's super prescriptive
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acegiak "nono, when you like/repost/bookmark a thing it should look like this, if you want to use these fields you can't because they're not the right fields for that post kind"
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GWG I was thinking of the specialized fields for things like audio, where I'd want to possibly add fields.
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GWG For example, on a piece of music, I might want things like Genre and Release Date
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /syndication-brainstorming (+730) "/* Syndicate by Content Brainstorming section added */ aaronpk, please review, too tired to work through everything right now" (view diff)
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GWG Of course, Release Date maps to Publication Date on a URL/article.
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GWG Not sure what Genre is the equivalent of.
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GWG Site Name, Publication Name, and Album Name are effectively the same thnig
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GWG I don't want to hide anything anyone would be using, which is the problem in doing it.
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GWG But in getting into more complex types...the list is going to grow pretty long.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, be careful of that trap
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Which one?
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ben_thatmustbeme don't start going too deep in to "someone might want this"
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ben_thatmustbeme unless there is a demonstrated need
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ben_thatmustbeme otherwise you end up at schema.org
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GWG Someone might want to do what?
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ben_thatmustbeme releast date, genre
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ben_thatmustbeme etc
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ben_thatmustbeme s/east/ease/
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I actually like audio metadata. Of course, I don't post that very often. I was trying to get to RSVPs, which have a field only relevant for RSVPs.
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acegiak GWG: Just do what you need for now but make your structure easily expandable
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GWG Trying to dictate too many restrictions is a problem because people want to use things they way they want to use them.
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GWG Trying to have no restrictions is harder for newcomers.
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GWG acegiak: I've been rewriting the meta storage stuff because I was working on the Micropub plugin. I want to be set up to store more microformats2 properties in the meta, even if they aren't used right now.
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GWG It came out of the Micropub design discussions. Micropub can store any arbitrary data, even if the receiving end doesn't know how to use it.
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GWG So, aaronpk, for example, has Teacup, which does food and drink. He uses the non-standard tags p3k-food and p3k-drink. Even if I don't know what to do with those, I want to keep them.
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GWG That was on the Micropub side. On the Post Kind side, I want to have the functions work with all mf2_ prefixed values, and understands the established ones.
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GWG Oh, well.
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1455747814748163#10153207231627701 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1455747814748163#10102125907725748 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club
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@AlexKKearney A discussion of my first nine weeks in #indieweb. http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625154045498511364)
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Kongaloosh and I broke it :<
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@AlexKKearney A discussion of my first nine weeks in #indieweb. http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625165069320613888)
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@AlexKKearney Okay, so after fixing an unfortunate unicode error, here's the actual post: http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625166561989533696)
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: for app engine do I really have to include all dependencies as submodules?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm !tell KartikPrabhu no you don't (Bridgy doesn't use submodules anymore!) basically you can install deps into a virtualenv and include the virtualenv folder when you deploy to app engine. there are some tricks to setting up the path though http://stackoverflow.com/a/25564125/682648
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@realHermitian #indieweb because the web is social, open. http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/625211254014111744)
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JarOfGreen Edinburgh ...... breakfast has arrived!
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@jarofgreen Edinburgh #indiewebcamp day 2, the hack day ... breakfast is here, people are arriving ... (twitter.com/_/status/625229790199607297)
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JarOfGreen So, my hackday plan is adding the ability to import events on a webpage that are marked up with h-event or schema.org markup to OpenACalendar .... first step, a good HTML parsing lib for PHP, and taking the data to some solid models ....
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rhiaro Good morning everyone! Anyone remote-hacking today, and want a stream / to be streamed?
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JarOfGreen Ahha, https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 looks useful
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@rhiaro Got vegan breakfast and ... an aeroplane seat ... everything I need for day 2 of IndieWebCamp Edinburgh! http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/got-vegan (twitter.com/_/status/625232825139265536)
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@rhiaro Working on your own website (or want to start)? Come to @ncredinburgh today! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/working-own (twitter.com/_/status/625234766170857472)
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JarOfGreen Just read https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4cDM5D/ ..... hate to be the negative one ... but if someone includes your package in their app and then puts their app through a continuous integration testing server like Travis your downloads count will artificially rocket .... sorry ... I'll prob break 1000 on https://packagist.org/packages/jmbtechnologylimited/parsedatetimerangestring today :-)
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rhiaro Hey JarOfGreen, you could better pass that message across by sending a webmention to barnabywalters :)
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JarOfGreen I feel mean enought saying it in IRC, don't want to blog it to :-p
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@macleodan Something about mountains with fax machines. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625241939416383492)
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rhiaro What are people working on today:
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "people working on today:" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100P
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rhiaro Jarofgreen: Scraping events data microformats and schema.org
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rhiaro KitB: Working on irc library, part of de-siloing grand plan
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rhiaro moredhel: webmention and micropub for static sites
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rhiaro anm: Static sites stuff
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rhiaro rhiaro: Displaying webmentions on my site
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rhiaro tbrb: Starting from scratch with new site. Micropub is on the cards.
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rhiaro kegan: allow any matrix client to be micropub enabled
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rhiaro fran: parse metadata from images and get a page of html with microformats
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (-9) "nachos." (view diff)
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@axiomer Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere -- What, why and how https://indiewebcamp.com/posse #blogs #internet (twitter.com/_/status/625252182468730880)
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aaronpk good morning!
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rhiaro good morning aaronpk!
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rhiaro Would you like a hangouts link?
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rhiaro There's a room of people doing micropub stuff (ping tbrb)
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mm0hai.net edited /Jekyll (+51) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tbrb Can do if wanted :)
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aaronpk sure! happy to help!
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moredhel morning all, I'm looking at getting ghost to support microformat2 markup. does anyone know of any themes that do this already? I have looked at this already: https://indiewebcamp.com/Ghost
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tbrb rhiaro: can you come sign in?
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aaronpk moredhel: not that I know of, it would be linked on the wiki. I assume you already found the last attempt at adding mf2 markup?
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moredhel I haven't found the pr actually, but it should probably be linked on the page?
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aaronpk it is
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moredhel oh :p, just saw it
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moredhel I'll have a play with things
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aaronpk great! do you use ghost on your site?
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tbrb Hangouts here: http://bit.ly/1KrppJF
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rhiaro tbrb++
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Loqi tbrb has 3 karma
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tbrb aaronpk: do you have a way to sign into quill with a dev copy of a site? ie, I'm running a dev server at localhost:8080 rather than harryreeder.co.uk?
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aaronpk tbrb: i haven't tried that before, but you should be able to use a ssh tunnel to give your localhost a public address
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aaronpk like https://ngrok.com/
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tbrb aaronpk: That's do-able except I still fall over at the indieauth step like so: http://img.harryreeder.co.uk/2015-07-26_11-58-19.png
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tbrb I assume because the rel=me links aren't actually pointing at the server where my tunnel exits
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aaronpk yeah they'd have to point to main.f-t.so:8081
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aaronpk the easiest one to do that with is google+ because you can link to multiple rel=me profiles
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tbrb Oooh, ok
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tbrb or maybe persona?
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aaronpk oh yeah that also works
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aaronpk if that ends up working well for you, probably worth adding a writeup to the wiiki
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moredhel alright, I ended up just writing the markup myself, and submitting a pr for my theme
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aaronpk cool i was able to sign in to quill using ngrok and persona
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rhiaro moredhel++
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Loqi moredhel has 1 karma
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moredhel yay :)
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anm Is someone doing notes with jekyll?
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tbrb Got it working with Google+
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anm with twitter posse?
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tbrb I've not been able to get it working with Persona though, but I'd not set up persona previously either
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aaronpk anm: bret has done a bunch with that. see http://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll
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aaronpk tbrb: ah yeah persona is kind of confusing to set up the first time IIRC
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aaronpk has anyone noticed that quil's note interface doesn't work in firefox?
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aaronpk oh nvm... i had noscript turned on in firefox :)
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aaronpk cool, ngrok works great for testing a local site using the real quill
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atomicules anm: I'm syndicating notes to Twitter with Jekyll.
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atomicules anm: Bit of a custom set-up, some details here: http://atomicules.co.uk/2015/05/22/Yet-more-Indieweb-syndication-notes.html
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atomicules anm: The code in that post is already out of date, but the approach is still the same
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aaronparecki.com created /ngrok (+318) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>Ngrok</dfn>''' is a utility for making local servers available on a public address https://ngrok.com/. Ngrok is useful for testing development websites with pu..."" (view diff)
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JarOfGreen "Ohhhhh, that's how it works" just heard from next door ....
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aaronpk haha i heard that too
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aaronparecki.com created /localtunnel.me (+148) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>localtunnel.me</dfn>''' allows you to share a local server on a public address. http://localtunnel.me/ == See Also == * [[ngrok]]"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ngrok-screenshot.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ngrok-web-interface.png]]""
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rhiaro Does anyone at indiewebcamp edinburgh want to get me a cup of coffee? I don't want to get up or take my headphones off :)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:quill-ngrok-sign-in.png]]""
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rhiaro I guess not.
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ngrok-indieauth-com.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /ngrok (+1479) "add section on how to test micropub clients" (view diff)
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aaronpk hope that is useful! http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok
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aaronpk tbrb: i'm hearing some conversation about http 401 vs 403 codes... is that not documented somewhere already?
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aaronpk okay next project time... i think i'm going to tackle clustered notifications for webmention.io
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tbrb aaronpk: Any idea why indieauth will just sit attempting to find rel=me links and hang: http://img.harryreeder.co.uk/2015-07-26_12-57-11.png ?
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rhiaro aaronpk: did you fix the favorite bookmarklet? :)
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aaronpk hrm no... check the browser console to see if there's a js error?
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aaronpk rhiaro: I did! I made it pop up a new window instead
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rhiaro aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 905 karma
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tbrb Ah, Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 502 (Bad Gateway)
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rhiaro clustered notifications for webmention.io will be awesome
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aaronpk tbrb: oh you're getting that from indieauth.com?
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rhiaro I'm just about to start pulling wms from webmention.io into my store
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aaronpk rhiaro: cool! you wouldn't expect to get the clustered notification text in the api would you?
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rhiaro I haven't thought that far yet
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tbrb yeah aaronpk, just when attempting to sign in to quill. Let me try another service
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rhiaro feels like it will be useful for something, but one step at a time
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aaronpk tbrb: it's only hanging on one of the indieauth.com servers, so in a minute you'll probably get bounced to a new one
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tbrb Fair enough
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tbrb goes for a drink break then
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aaronpk strange, that server can't reach your ssh tunnel. I will have to ask bear if there's a firewall that's blocking it
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tbrb Maybe something to do with the non-standard port?
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aaronpk probably
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aaronpk if it still isn't working, then change "indieauth.com" to "primary.indieauth.com" and that'll make it do the request against a specific server
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aaronpk you can just change it in the browser address bar
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rhiaro anm++ for making me mate
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Loqi anm has 1 karma
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tbrb it worked in the sense of it getting my providers fine, but then google throws a wobbly because primary.indieauth.com isn't a registered callback handler
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aaronpk oh yeah hah
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tbrb @The redirect URI in the request: https://primary.indieauth.com/auth/google_oauth2/callback did not match a registered redirect URI@
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aaronpk only works for things like persona
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tbrb yeah
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tbrb Ach well
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aaronpk i can remove the problem server for now
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aaronpk also indieauth.com might be resolving to a different one for you by now
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aaronpk k it's out of the pool
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tbrb Ok
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tbrb Perfect, all good now
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aaronpk \o/
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tbrb Is there any sort of prescription for permalink structure?
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aaronpk for your own site? not a presecription, no
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aaronpk but there are some best practices
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design
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rhiaro don't put post types in urls :)
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tbrb reads
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'Wrote up a tutorial on testing local micropub clients with ngrok http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok #indieweb' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok (https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/26/1/micropub-indieweb)
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aaronpk the sun is coming up :)
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tbrb We're starting to cloud over here
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csarven tbrb I suggest reading http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI a few times.
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rhiaro aaronpk: webmention.io has a 'verified' field - how long does it take to verify them? (I've never seen it set to false, that's all)
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csarven tbrb Everything else pretty much stems from that.
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aaronpk rhiaro: pretty sure you'll only see verified ones. it's unverified before it checks the source URL
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rhiaro Okay
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anm rhiaro: why are you against post types? (I read http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design)
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rhiaro I'm not against post types per-say, but putting them in the urls leads to problems if you decide to tweak your model
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rhiaro I'm against some post types
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tbrb csarven: Cheers. I'm thinking just /entries/<year>/<month>/<day>/<slug>, with a hackable URL to just show a list page for say, /entries/<year>/<month>
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rhiaro explicit post types
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rhiaro tbrb: I do that, but without day
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csarven shrugs at the dates.
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rhiaro csarven: depends how much you post, and maybe how likely your slugs are to collide
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rhiaro when you post a lot, filtering by month and year is pretty helpful
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tbrb Dropping day could be an idea too actually
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tbrb yeah, I like the sound of that
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tbrb slugs colliding in the same month is unlikely
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rhiaro On the other hand, I often want to find a post and forget the month but remember thes lug
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rhiaro fortunately I have two versions of all my URIs
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rhiaro one without the year and month..
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csarven I agree, but you should filter by however the resource describes itself, not based on the IRI
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aaronpk i actually prefer my slugs to be informative rather than canonical
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aaronpk tbrb: basically you're gonna find a lot of personal preference when it comes to url design :)
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rhiaro URIs should be opaque etc
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rhiaro tbrb: you're going to see differences of opinion from linked data world compared to indieweb world I think, too :)
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tbrb Yeahhhhh
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csarven tbrb Consider whether the term "entries" is most appropriate e.g., should it be singular or plural? should it be there to begin with?
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rhiaro oh yeah, tbrb I wouldn't necessarily bother with /entries/
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rhiaro also shorter is better
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anm rhiaro: I think I read something on your site, hm, you have a URI for the concept / content, and a URL or more for some representation of it?
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rhiaro uhh yeah I'd rather not talk about it :p
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rhiaro it has solved and created a number of problems
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tbrb I guess if the first "folder" is specifically an int or similar then I won't hit any routing troubles
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anm hmkay
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anm maybe you can write about it sometime then
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rhiaro Okay I'll talk about it really. I have blog.rhiaro.co.uk/slug which does content negotation and can return turtle, rdf/xml or json
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rhiaro or markdown
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rhiaro if you ask for text/html it redirects to rhiaro.co.uk/year/month/slug which is html version with comments etc
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aaronpk tbrb: if your first segment is year then that's a pretty strict pattern to match, [0-9]{4}
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csarven I'd ditch the dates altogether. Come up with a proper mechanism to generate unique paths, which includes handling scenarios where you come up with the same slug for some reason. e.g., if 'foo' exists, go with 'foo-n' or whatever. There is a trade off: how complicated do you want the URL to be and how likely are you going ot run into collisions. Work around the collision possibilities (which is far less likely than introducing date
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csarven s and other things upfront and all the time)
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@macleodan I'm going next door to look at a cat on the internet. #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/625286238015234049)
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rhiaro I do have a collision avoiding mechanism in my slugs anyway, since I started with the dateless version
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aaronpk there are many benefits to having the date in the URL, especially for date-based content like posting notes
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csarven Most importantly: come up with an URL Template for your site: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 and then go on from there.
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csarven aaronpk There are about zillion (meta)data that's "important" for a resource. There is no need to arbitrarily shove them into the URL.
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aaronpk csarven: like i said... personal preference
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csarven trbr http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/
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aaronpk csarven: if you have any personal experience with URL design for your personal website, feel free to add to http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design
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anm does anyone in Edinburgh want lunch yet? I will goto Mosque Kitchen if so.
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rhiaro is still not hungry
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tbrb Yeah I'm not too fussed tbh
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csarven.ca edited /URL_design (+33) "Added W3C Note on Cool URIs for the Semantic Web" (view diff)
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anm rhiaro: and what are the problems created solved by your scheme? Do you recommend it?
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@papapelz @AphiliaInfo Und volle Integration von microformats2? Aktuell nur bei SemPress. Sollte halt #indieweb-kompatibel sein. (twitter.com/_/status/625288522505822210)
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rhiaro Having two urls for everything is a problem. People are going to reply/like/etc (ie send webmentions to) the /date/ version, because that's the most obvious html version, even though I'd technically want stuff at the non-date version. But I have to accept that.
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rhiaro the ids for posts in my store are the non-date version
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anm I think date makes sense in URLs for content where date is actually relevent, but I am now thinking that for many blog articles, it is not, and really I should have a post type which does not have dates.
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rhiaro So when I get webmentions to the date version, I have to map that to store the replies
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anm I mean, at all, not just in URL.
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rhiaro but havint the non-date version at a subdomain means when I get an ssl cert at my top level I won't have to change all the IDs in my store
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rhiaro (to https)
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voxpelli I believe I will get a problem with URL:s when I move to implement update/delete in my Micropub endpoint as Jekyll requires full date in file names I believe but I only have month+year in URL
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voxpelli but that's kind of an edge case – doing Jekyll + full dynamic IndieWeb makes for some edge cases
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anm also there is a yerba mate going around if anyone is interested
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csarven Interesting that /url-design talks about yyyy/mm/dd pattern, instead of yyyy-mm-dd pattern which is actually the ISO 8601 pattern.
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aaronpk it's not a far stretch to use slashes in URLs to separate date segments. it's still in yyyy-mm-dd order which is the important part
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_fran I was just cursing against EXIF dates, which are in yyyy:mm:dd format :)
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csarven.ca edited /URL_design (+83) "Mentioned ISO 8601 date pattern" (view diff)
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rhiaro using slashes makes yyyy and yyyy/mm collection pages obviously human-discoverable
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JarOfGreen advantage of using slashes in URLs is then you have a natural page that lists all content from one year, or one month I guess
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csarven - and / are merely strings. One of which in the date pattern is an ISO date pattern, the other is not. So, sure, we can chalk that also up as a personal preference.
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csarven (when in doubt)
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JarOfGreen Ok, so my PHP lib to parse events from HTML with both schema.org and h-events syntax is going well. With unit tests! Title, Start and End date done. https://github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/HTMLIsAnEvent Anyone have some example web pages with marked up events I could test it against? (And they don't mind me saving the HTML in my repo so I have stable tests)
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voxpelli JarOfGreen: if you've written the parser yourself then you can run it against https://github.com/microformats/tests/tree/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-event which is a parser test suite for microformats
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@papapelz .@AphiliaInfo wunderbarer Ansatz: der breiten Masse sollten auch ihre Daten gehören. ;) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625293002915905536)
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@AphiliaInfo @papapelz jo, deswegen ist #WordPress besser als #Facebook! Aber wichtig ist die Usability... auch fürs #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625293395066527744)
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aaronpk JarOfGreen: nice! I sent you two links in a github issue
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning / afternoon IWC
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: did you see my notes on syndication
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ben_thatmustbeme was the most i could get through so sleepy last night
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aaronpk i did, but i didn't quite follow
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tbrb I have working micropub =3
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aaronpk woo!
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rhiaro just let kegan auth with her micropub endpoint for testing, so her site will be full of test messages imminently..
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7YUAACSOS thanks rhiaro :)
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rhiaro woah, what's your nick?
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csarven.ca edited /URL_design (+100) "Mentioned RDF 6570 URI Template" (view diff)
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7YUAACSOS clearly wrong >:(
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csarven Oops.. should be RFC
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rhiaro oh, are you in irc via matrix?
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JarOfGreen aaronpk: thanks
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rhiaro 7YUAACSOS
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7YUAACSOS yeah, got netsplit and then assigned this :/
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rhiaro oh right
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JarOfGreen voxpelli: thanks, may pick those up, might try and grab lots of real world examples tho. So I've used someone else's PHP HTML parser, then I'm just selecting tags out of the result. But there is still a big variance in possible options, even in what I've already seen
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JarOfGreen just added description field
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /syndication (+32) "add see also to brainstorming" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /rel-syndication (+32) "/* See Also */ syndication-brainstorming" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme there, couldn't find the page too easily
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aaronpk haha nice
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aaronpk i shoulda done that when i made the page, thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme no problem
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Loqi definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme no to reread what i wrote
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, Loqi is against you
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terminalpixel_ @aaronpk just implemented micropub on test.grant.codes and all clients seem to work except teacup. Is there something I'm missing?
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aaronpk terminalpixel_: teacup is kind of weird
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aaronpk is it not creating posts or are you getting some actual error?
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aaronpk teacup doesnt send "content" so if you're requiring that then you'll get empty posts
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terminalpixel_ I don't seem to be getting any request through at all
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JarOfGreen just added description field
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JarOfGreen wrong window
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aaronpk oh man people are trying to sign in to teacup with their email address
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rhiaro terminalpixel_ just told me he's dumping the POST request and not getting anything at all
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csarven.ca edited /URL_design (+50) "Study on Persistent URIs with identification of best practices and recommendations on the topic for the Member States and the European Commission" (view diff)
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rhiaro and recently teacup mysteriously stopped working for me when I didn't think I'd made any changes to my endpoint
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7YUAACSOS rhiaro: Does your server accept access_token in the form body?
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aaronpk weird. i use it literally every day
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rhiaro it's probably me
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rhiaro it's usually me
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rhiaro 7YUAACSOS / kegan: my server does whatever the Quill docs say
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rhiaro also hang on I've got a link to my code somewhere
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rhiaro it's basically this rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub
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aaronpk terminalpixel_: if you don't mind, i will try sending a post to your micropub endpoint from the teacup server manually
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terminalpixel_ go for it
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7YUAACSOS looks like it is indeed just checking the headers. Will set both then
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aaronpk terminalpixel_: I got a reply that says it's missing the "content" parameter
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aaronpk "Missing "content" value."
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /syndication-brainstorming (+488) "/* Getting Token / Initial set-up */ trying to clean up explanation" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: ^^ hopefully clearer
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terminalpixel_ cheers aaronpk, library I'm using we requiring content param, receiving data now
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aaronpk terminalpixel_: great! maybe file an issue on the library to make it not require "content"?
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terminalpixel_ yep will do
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rhiaro yay, glad that got resolved
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aaronpk wow clustering notifications is hard
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aaronpk s/notifications/webmentions
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: wow clustering webmentions is hard
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rhiaro wow, concentrating on what I'm doing for more than 5 minutes is hard
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rhiaro anm, is this a consequence of all that mate??
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aaronpk that too :)
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anm rhiaro: maybe, it depends on the person probably.
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anm atomicules: Is all your blog code available or just the syndication bit? I'm also working out how to do notes using jekyll collections, wondered if you did that.
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tantek tbrb: check out the details on http://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design in particular note that it's important to keep the slug *optional*
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design#Topic
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tbrb Will do, cheers
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anm atomicules: thanks anyway, I'm adapting that for my site. What is the licence?
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7YUAACSOS hmm, I have some indieauth woes. I'm getting back a token which I'm then passing to the oauth url to verify (as per https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Auth_code_verification )
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7YUAACSOS but when I try to use this token with tokens.indieauth.com it says that error=unauthorized&error_description=The+token+provided+was+malformed
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tantek good luck with all the creating today!
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7YUAACSOS I don't see any obvious url encoding problems (since it's passed as a header, the ='s are not url encoded)
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rhiaro oh man, 1.5h to demos
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rhiaro tunes out of IRC for a while
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: that's the authorization code you are passing to tokens.indieauth.com?
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tbrb oh wow, didnt see the time
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tantek csarven - I saw you added https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 to /URL_design - do you post your URI Template anywhere on your site?
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7YUAACSOS aaronpk : correct, I don't seem to get another token to use on that last verify leg, just the me= stuff
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aaronpk oh wait no that's the access token
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tantek csarven, do you use /YYYY-MM-DD/ anywhere in URLs on your site?
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7YUAACSOS the code I'm using is the one I got as a query param "code" - this felt wrong to me since usually you exchange that for an access token
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7YUAACSOS but I didn't see anything in the docs to suggest this would happen
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csarven tantek http://csarven.ca/linked-sdmx-data#uri-patterns and no.
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: yeah i think you're mixing up two steps
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7YUAACSOS I'm guessing this is going to be a header or something in the reply after verifying
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aaronpk what part are you trying to build right now?
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7YUAACSOS checks
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aaronpk i mean are you trying to build a micropub endpoint or a token endpoint?
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aaronpk i assume micropub endpoint, using tokens.indieauth.com and indieauth.com
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7YUAACSOS nope, just debugging why it wasn't accepting my token
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7YUAACSOS I'm doing a micropub client
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7YUAACSOS got everything else working, just the micropub server was rejecting me
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tantek.com edited /URL_design (+189) "move URL template to brainstorming (not a common practice), and add warning of why to avoid "literal" ISO8601 date format without path separators in a URL" (view diff)
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csarven tantek I can show you million URLs using ISO8601 date pattern if that qualifies for IWC? Or is the max set to 100?
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csarven tantek YOu have got to be kidding me. PROVE "not a common practice"
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csarven Whatever
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tantek csarven - if you find folks doing it on their personal site, you may documen tit
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csarven Go nuts
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tantek s/documen tit/document it
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Loqi tantek meant to say: csarven - if you find folks doing it on their personal site, you may document it
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: there's a difference between the authorization code returned ffrom indieauth.com and an access token
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aaronpk i think you're getting the two confused, which is why tokens.indieauth.com is rejecting it
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7YUAACSOS how do I exchange the code for a token?
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aaronpk check out https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
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aaronpk the other page you linked was about just logging in, not micropub stuff
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aaronpk here's the part where you exchange the auth code for an access token https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token#Token_Endpoint
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csarven tantek "Avoid the "literal" ISO 8601 date patterns of use /YYYY-MM-DD/ or /YYYYMMDD/ because by omitting path separators they are are less URL friendly (less hackable). " -- that's complete BS
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tantek csarven - there are tons of URLs with long strings of numbers, database ids also - and they're also wrong
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csarven We are not even talking about that.
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tantek this is about good design, which needs very deliberate decisions
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tantek not academic RFCs
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csarven So what does that have to do with this discussion
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csarven PLUS you've made several changes mixing up all the issues.
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tantek more URL friendly, more hackable is better design
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csarven make atomic changes
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csarven +What's URL friendly?
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csarven You are arguing somehow that /YYYY/MM/DD is more friendly than /YYYY-MM-DD/ ? Based on what? Personal preference?
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tantek more URL friendly yes, because you just drop paths to handle various archive pages etc.
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csarven Academic RFCs? Seriously? That's your argument?
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tantek it's been a common blogger argument for ages
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7YUAACSOS right, thanks. That wasn't super clear; isn't that code basically useless without the token?
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csarven URL path is not 1:1 with filesystem paths.
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tantek yes, RFCs without cited common real world practices are academic
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csarven You should know that!
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tantek it's about making them easier, friendlier
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Loqi I agree
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tantek which as nothing to do with such 1:1 arguments
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csarven Your "friendlier" argument is entirel ybased on preference.
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: the code is a one-time use thing, only used to get the token
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aaronpk wonders how best to document this path of making a micropub client
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7YUAACSOS why bother with the verify step on the code given that it will be checked when exchanging for a token?
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aaronpk now that I think about it, all the wiki pages are written from the perspective of writing micropub servers, would you agree 7YUAACSOS?
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aaronpk the verify step on the code is between the token endpoint and the authorization endpoint, in case they are separate systems like indieauth.com and tokens.indieauth.com
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: /YYYY/MM/DD is friendlier, mainly because you could hopefully do /YYYY/MM/ to look up an entire month or /YYYY/ to look up an entire year
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ben_thatmustbeme intuitive searching
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csarven HOW?
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csarven Based on what exactly?
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ben_thatmustbeme you can't do that with YYYY-MM-DD/
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7YUAACSOS right so I can skip that given I'm designing this specifically for indieweb
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csarven Directories? Like I said, what you see in the URL is not necessarily mapped to a filesystem.
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ben_thatmustbeme there is no intuitive browse
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csarven Irrelevant. This is URL design.
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tantek csarven: btw, no need for "Whatever" or "Go nuts" type responses. Please focus on productively contributing.
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ben_thatmustbeme exactly
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csarven Explain the browsing exactly
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csarven heh
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: are you making a token endpoint or authorization endpoitn?
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aaronpk csarven: would it be correct to say that you are speaking from the POV of URLs must be opaque?
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ben_thatmustbeme visitnig /YYYY/ isn't viewing a folder, maybe it shows top for the year, who knows
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csarven I am contributing by clear references and justification for them. You are making changes based on your feelings.
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ben_thatmustbeme but its intuitive
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csarven of course I'm going to tell you to "go nuts"
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tantek.com edited /URL_design (+86) "separate semweb-specific article, explicitly call out importance of permalinks and Cool URIs don't change article" (view diff)
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7YUAACSOS I am making a thing which acts as a "web app" on the diagram at https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Authorization_process
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csarven aaronpk It is not necessarily my POV but the POV what URLs are. If you don't acknowledge "what" URLs are there is no need to discuss further
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csarven haha
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csarven Oh T, you are so allergic to SW it is sad.
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tantek csarven: feel free to document your own personal permalink structure here https://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: that page is just about login/identification, so there is no access token in that step
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csarven Those are arguably more approriate reading than some blog post
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csarven The W3C notes/recs go through a lot of people befor epublishign.. whereas a blog post is someones POV
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tantek csarven: just because I crticize something does not imply allergy. I organize things to help others be quickly productive instead of getting lost of W3C/academic esoterica (have plenty of experience with that)
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voxpelli csarven: as I see it – URL:s are hierarchical and so are dates. URL:s use "/" to separate them. Check the RFC: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-1.2.3
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csarven which you happen to "prefer" over what the W3C/RFC/IETF... prefers..
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aaronpk csarven: the point is that in the real world, people have come to associate the "/" character with separate components of a URL, expecting to find content by removing components
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ben_thatmustbeme thats not a rec, its a note from an IG which usually doesn't go through the same level of work
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ben_thatmustbeme unless there is another link i missed
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tantek csarven: lol no. "W3C notes/recs go through a lot of people" the majority who don't actually publish their own websites or practice what they talk - so thus aren't really qualified.
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csarven T, I see that your gang is all ready to go at me :) No worries, I will go through the responses one at a time.
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tantek csarven - focus on being productive instead of pushing academic theoreticals / edge cases.
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csarven tantek THAT is only your measure of qualification. Not the rest of the world.
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tantek csarven: rest of the world, shipping counts.
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tantek here, shipping counts.
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csarven heh
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tantek like I said, feel free to document your own personal permalink structure here https://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: is that diagram here useful? https://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-for-login
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csarven Would like me to show you URLs in the millions that I'm publishing which use ISO8601 or is that above the IWC bar (100 URLs?)?
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: my main complaint is that you linked to a spec in a list of readable, real-world experience, and blatently moved it to the top to try to give it more authority
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tantek csarven, and then keep being productive on your own site how you feel like it to set an example: http://indiewebcamp.com/user:csarven.ca (perhaps /wikify that some more with more Itches)
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csarven is reading up to reply to everyone. pardon the delay.
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: no problem
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ben_thatmustbeme obviously a lot to reply to
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7YUAACSOS that diagram is very useful
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rhiaro If the URL design page on the wiki is specifically about blog post/article URLs, rather than all URLs (which I think it is, as there are plenty of other domains where the stuff on that page doesn't apply, eg. long identifiers are useful) then that should be made clearer on the wiki page
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voxpelli csarven: if one has the URL of "YYYY/MM/DD" and something is relative to the month, then one just does "../" – because its hierarchical – as pointed out by the URI RFC if you want an RFC :)
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme Don't even bother to wave TimBL's Cool URIs doc with that justification. Like I said earlier, everything stems from that. Read his doc several times, embrace it.. then we can talk about the rest of those blog posts
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csarven is reading aaronpk 's message above. will get to the rest.
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ben_thatmustbeme timbl != god
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: okay cool, we're missing one for the flow to get an access token which i think is where the confusion is coming from
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ben_thatmustbeme timbl liked xml :P
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone can get things wrong
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aaronpk cweiske++ for including the source code for the diagram here https://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-authorization-process.png
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Loqi cweiske has 33 karma
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rhiaro and then csarven arguing that certain types of url are fine based on RFCs, and tantek arguing that they're not based on they're not 'friendly' becomes moot
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7YUAACSOS aaronpk : yup, I think so
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rhiaro because non-friendly URLs are out of scope for articles
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poka didnt LEe Feigenbaum writ e CoolURIs. too lazy to loook
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7YUAACSOS also, I'm now managing to 500 tokens.indieauth.com
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tantek csarven, please consider focusing more on creating on your own site, and documenting your own results rather than taking offense at criticisms of RFCs / W3C specs etc.
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rhiaro checks back out
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voxpelli My Micropub endpoint now does automatic language detection on content – meaning I have multilingual support with all Micropub clients!
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme I would say that a Note or whatever still has higher importance than a blog post. Of course the content matters, so this is only a generalization/default POV.
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aaronpk i find these diagrams hard to read personally, but i will try to extend the existing one to the other flow
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aaronpk learns sdedit uml syntax
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csarven tantek Like I said, I have shipped URLs in the millions. Does that not count? how many have you shipped?
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voxpelli aaronpk: if you want a CLI-tool that generates SVG:s for sequence diagrams instead: https://github.com/knsv/mermaid Never gotten along with ordinary UML-tools myself :/
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aaronpk thanks
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csarven ben_thatmustbeme Seriously? != God argument? If we are going to talk about "anyone can get things wrong", please allow me to put my default bet on TimBL over IWC. After all, one has a remarkable track record which not many even comes close to.
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poka w3c spec-writers seem to heavily overlap with .edu paper-writers + corporate-countrycllub phd-welfare dudes who mainly seem to come up with vague r&d guidance , if there's "Trenches" involved there, theyre definitely different , IBMORACLEGOOGLE trenches than the typical wordpress admin's trenches
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csarven rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 132 karma
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aaronpk rhiaro: definitely agreed about the sope of the url design page
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aaronpk s/sope/scope
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: rhiaro: definitely agreed about the scope of the url design page
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aaronpk after all, the entire wiki is about peoples' personal websites, not about general web technology
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aaronpk attempts to run a .jar file
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csarven aaronpk Like I said, would you like me to drop million URLs?
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csarven s/million/millions of
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Loqi csarven meant to say: aaronpk Like I said, would you like me to drop millions of URLs?
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csarven If you are not allergic to LD, have a look here http://270a.info/
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csarven Here is one observation : http://ecb.270a.info/dataset/YC/B/U2/EUR/4F/G_N_A/SV_C_YM/PY_20Y4M/2004-09-06
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aaronpk csarven: if you have a million urls on your own website of URLs that use "yyyy-mm-dd" then that's one data point worth documenting
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /URL_design (+93) "Scope" (view diff)
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poka W3C conference entries appear to be a much sadder lineup than the specs. so much ad-spyware-user-analyzer shit
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rhiaro Can you stop now?
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ben_thatmustbeme looks to see if any of those listed companies using LD is actually SOCIAL
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csarven Companies? hehe /me chuckles
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aaronpk yeah i'm gonna say the 270a.info link is out of scope
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aaronpk rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 133 karma
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csarven aaronpk How so?
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aaronpk 1) it's not your personal website 2) it's not blog-like content
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ben_thatmustbeme compasorry, rhiaro, with IWC on right now, IRC should be for that
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csarven Well, if rhiaro's change is what it should be, stop bugging me. You should have fixed your own wiki before the discussion.
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ben_thatmustbeme we can table all of this for now
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csarven aaronpk 1) url-design said nothing about "personal website"
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csarven NOTHING
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csarven 2) not about blog-like content either.
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aaronpk csarven: see: indiewebcamp.com
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csarven why?
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csarven That's a different URL
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aaronpk it's the parent URL
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voxpelli it's not the amount of URL:s that's interesting – it's the personal experiences of people building sites that matter
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csarven aaronpk Please make me a list of URLs that I must read before doing anything with url-design
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voxpelli it's about _people_ and the experiences of _people_ – not about specs or whatever
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aaronpk csarven: you have to understand the scope of indiewebcamp.com by now, so stop throwing out ridiculous arguments
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csarven voxpelli Which is fine. I am suggesting tha tI have experience with X, yet, that is not even welcomed. Why? Perhaps you should question that!
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aaronpk if you have experience with X on *your own personal website* then that is certainly welcome
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ben_thatmustbeme csarven: aaronpk, rhiaro made a good point, IWC is on right now, lets save the IRC for them
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voxpelli csarven: because you haven't been able to point towards an example of your experience
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voxpelli "I did X and learned Y from that"
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aaronpk goes back to UML diagrams
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voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 105 karma
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aaronpk cries that none of the osx keyboard shortcuts work in this java app
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csarven So let me get this right .. once and for all: is Semantic Web / Linked Data experience welcome in IWC or not?
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aaronpk csarven: it's not about what the technology is, it's about what you're doing with it
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csarven And if not, would you care to document that in the IWC homepage?
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voxpelli rhiaro: do you know who in Edinburg it was that was interested in Micropub + static sites / Jekyll? I'm working on that for myself right now
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rhiaro voxpelli: anm
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rhiaro and moredhel
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moredhel voxpelli, I'm just messing around with setting up a storage plan at the moment, but will try and actually get something more better, slightly further down the line.
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voxpelli anm: moredhel: You may want to check out https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express – haven't yet released the full endpoint, but I'm testing it myself right now
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aaronpk this uml syntax is crazy
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csarven.ca edited /User:Csarven.ca (-104) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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kylewm morning all, sorry if this has been asked, are the edinburgh demos going to be streamed?
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tbrb Yeah, they will be
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aaronpk sweet! how long til demos?
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aaronpk 7YUAACSOS: did you end up getting the token stuff sorted out?
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aaronpk this diagram is going to take me a bit :)
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7YUAACSOS aaronpk : yup, it's all working :)
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tbrb aaronpk: ~ 50 minutes
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kylewm aaronpk: having a little trouble wrapping my brain around this. writing an indieauth implementatio that delegates to tumblr. where should i stick the incoming request params (me, client_id, redirect_uri, etc.) while I redirect to tumblr's auth endpoint?
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tbrb 1630 uk time
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csarven.ca edited /Webmention (+221) "A Webmention endpoint feature doesn't justify anything." (view diff)
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anm voxpelli: yeah, I was going to add micropub after I had made a note type and twitter syndication.
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aaronpk kylewm: either server side session or encoded in state
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voxpelli anm: ping me if you want to discuss it – so far I've split up my work to be as reusable as possible and released all the modules
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kylewm aaronpk++ ty
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Loqi aaronpk has 906 karma
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atomicules anm: I'll add a license, it'll be BSD
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kylewm aaronpk: is a server side session (i think that means in memcache/redis?) a good way to store the oauth request token too? this is oauth1 so i need to save some info between calls
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atomicules anm: I used to have the rest of my jekyll templates available, etc, but no more since I pulled it off Github
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aaronpk yeah that's pretty typical. or in php it just uses a file on disk by default
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harryreeder.co.uk edited /Micropub (+137) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ tbrb supports micropub" (view diff)
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KevinMarks csarven: can you stop it please
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kevinmarks.com edited /Webmention (-221) "Undo revision 21096 by [[Special:Contributions/Csarven.ca|Csarven.ca]] ([[User talk:Csarven.ca|talk]])" (view diff)
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Jeena will the demos from Edinburgh be streamed?
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Jeena Oh I see they will, forget my question :D
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KevinMarks csarven: you see standards as legislation; we see them as documentation.
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tbrb we'll be doing them from a different laptop than the current hackroom stream, but yeah, and I'll post hangout / youtube etc in ~ 30 minutes
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KevinMarks thanks to wordpress, about a quarter of the web has YYYY/MM/DD urls
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JarOfGreen aaronpk: thanks for examples, both basically working and the later one was an event that had both formats of markups which was something I was going to look out for - obvs we only want one event coming thru, which is now done!
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aaronpk great!
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csarven KevinMarks Care to explain why you've reverted my wiki edit? You've provided no reason for the revert. Do you need help with wiki use?
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+668) "undo revert, and add background" (view diff)
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csarven Interesting. Thank you aaronpk .. for whatever the reason was for the revert and undo-revert
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rhiaro Calling IWC Edinburgh: does anyone else want another half an hour before demos?
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rhiaro does
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rhiaro ping JarOfGreen tbrb: thoughts?
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tbrb I'd not say no
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tbrb rhiaro: no objections from this room
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rhiaro tbrb: that's always the case, we shold make a habit of listing the end of the demos as half an hour earlier than they need to be
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rhiaro aaronpk, voxpelli, Jeena, anyone else who wants to remote in to demos, they've been pushed back half an hour, to 1700 BST
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Jeena ok
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aaronpk k! i probably won't have anything to demo, but will definitely watch!
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KevinMarks for my philosophy on wikis, see http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/04/blogs-wikis-mailing-lists-and.html
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Jeena I took 12 beers with me from Portland but I don't want to open them because once I've dank them I will not be able to get anything like that here :-(
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voxpelli rhiaro: how would one demo remotely? I guess I could show some of my Micropub work
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rhiaro voxpelli: you could screen share. tbrb is in charge of that though
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csarven aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 907 karma
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tbrb voxpelli: the stream will be done on hangouts so I'll fire you over the hangouts link when we do them and you'll be able to use that to screenshare
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voxpelli tbrb: cool, screensharing in hangout I've done multiple times :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /File:indieauth-authorization-process.png (-18) "update terminology" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:indieauth-authorization-process.png]]"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com moved /File:indieauth-authorization-process.png to /File:indieauth-login-flow.png
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aaronparecki.com edited /indieauth-for-login (-11) (view diff)
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aaronpk me right now https://i.imgflip.com/op8j6.jpg
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rhiaro aaronpk... *why* are you writing uml diagrams?
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rhiaro I was under the impression they had no actual utility.
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aaronpk making the counterpart to https://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-for-login
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rhiaro oh okay
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Jeena for documentation they're very usefull
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aaronpk it's actually a sequence diagram but i guess it's uml syntax
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rhiaro I may have just become prejudiced against them at uni
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aaronpk i can't get my head around the syntax this app uses so i feel like that dog
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rhiaro seemed like something we were made to do for lecturer's entertainment only
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Jeena I liked them at the university because I was able to do them and then just to generate Java code so I didn't have to write all the boilerplate by hand :p
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@TerminalPixel Got my new #indieweb system up and running! (twitter.com/_/status/625327393809530880)
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Jeena and rhiaro we use them very often at work for documentation
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tbrb KitB / KitD (I'll probably want to start getting things set up in ~ 20 mins, and will need rhiaro to sign into the googles on your laptop
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tbrb ~fyi
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Jeena but I've only been using Umbrello for UML yet, what are you using aaronpk?
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aaronpk the one linked from here https://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-login-flow.png
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Jeena sdedit, never heard of it
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KevinMarks https://web.archive.org/web/20090327113401/http://littletutorials.com/2008/05/15/13-reasons-for-umls-descent-into-darkness
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KevinMarks did you see https://github.com/knsv/mermaid aaronpk ?
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aaronpk yeah i just wanted to make a few changes to this diagram, it'll look the same and i will also include the source like on indieauth-login-flow.png
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KevinMarks OK - I liked that it made SVG instead of bitmaps
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kylewm there are lots of different types of UML, i think class diagrams are pretty worthless, sequence diagrams are great
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aaronpk like i said... https://i.imgflip.com/op8j6.jpg
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kylewm “LGTM 🐶🔬”
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rhiaro has squandered her extra 30 minutes
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snarfed LGTM🐶🔬++
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 9 hours, 45 minutes ago: for app engine do I really have to include all dependencies as submodules? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437890202692
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aaronparecki.com edited /File:micropub-flow-diagram.png (+53) (view diff)
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kylewm snarfed: I attemtped to answer Kartik's question already
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:micropub-auth-flow.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /File:micropub-auth-flow.png (+1032) "add source" (view diff)
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437893080379
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aaronparecki.com edited /obtaining-an-access-token (-39) "add sequence diagram" (view diff)
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aaronpk woo okay! https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
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aaronpk closes sdedit, hopefully never has to open it again
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7YUAACSOS aaronpk, that is much clearer, thanks.
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aaronpk great!
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aaronpk that was an interesting excercise :)
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aaronpk snarfed: i'm working on clustering now
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aaronpk there are many interesting edge cases
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rhiaro is not ready for iwc to be over aaaaarrrggg
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aaronpk aw
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aaronpk just switch to portland time, it's only 9am here!
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rhiaro is glad tbrb and jarofgreen are organising setting up demos so she can keep coding
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tbrb` voxpelli, kylewm, aaronpk: http://bit.ly/1Oukvfu Hangouts link for demos, we're just getting set up here now
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@jarofgreen What I worked on at #indiewebcamp for @OpenACalendar ... https://jarofgreen.co.uk/2015/what-i-worked-on-at-indiewebcamp-for-openacalendar- (twitter.com/_/status/625335940857360384)
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rhiaro DEMOS
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rhiaro tbrb: Started with an empty site that could be logged into via indieauth
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rhiaro ... Now has posts!
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rhiaro ... via micropub
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rhiaro moredhel: you don't look like you're doing anything, and I need to write code, could you scribe?
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rhiaro write down everything everyone says
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rhiaro okay, moredhel is going next
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rhiaro moredhel: playing around with sinatra, didn't set up a database, use redis on the backend
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rhiaro ... only did this in the last 20 minutes, but spent all time tinkering with backend
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tbrb is the stream working fine guys?
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aaronpk tbrb: yep! thanks
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tbrb awesome
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rhiaro ... it pulls json and renders it
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rhiaro ... intention to generate json, dump in a file, and not have to deal with dynamic stuff
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moredhel kitb, demo'ing his irc bot!
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voxpelli tbrb: give a ping here when you want me to present :)
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moredhel https://bitbucket.org/KitB/pircel <- url
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tbrb voxpelli: will do, want to go next?
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moredhel it's a library written in python with the intention of allowing clients to connect to persistent connections to irc servers
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voxpelli tbrb: I can do that
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tbrb Ok
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tbrb \o/
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moredhel hi five bot proceeds to hi five anyone who wants to be high fived
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moredhel voxpelli brings up screen for demoing
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moredhel challenging to use micropub because of using jekyll
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moredhel got it working, but broke yesterday when using ownyourgram.
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moredhel decided to try and integrate language detection into micropub
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rhiaro: It's demo time (twitter.com/_/status/625338453207597061)
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moredhel demoing markup of swedish hopefully detected.
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kylewm voxpelli is speaking english and writing swedish simultaneously
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aaronpk wow also great demo of replying via micropub from an ios app!
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KevinMarks should not hav tried rewriting noterlive just before demos
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KevinMarks voxpelli++ for polyglot markup
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Loqi voxpelli has 36 karma
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tbrb Thank you voxpelli :)
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moredhel JarOfGreen demoing his library
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moredhel github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/HTMLIsAnEVent
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moredhel grant shows his new website.
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moredhel used micropub to post to website.
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KevinMarks hovercards now hover: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-07-15.html
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moredhel syndication is modularised, meaning posting can be pointed at a finer granularity
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moredhel demoing posting to website using quill.
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moredhel ... using mongoose to store data on the website
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KevinMarks will have to noterlive this later from the recording
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KartikPrabhu Loqi messages?
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aaronpk (speaking of which this is being recorded on youtube right?)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: kylewm left you a message 9 hours, 36 minutes ago: no you don't (Bridgy doesn't use submodules anymore!) basically you can install deps into a virtualenv and include the virtualenv folder when you deploy to app engine. there are some tricks to setting up the path though http://stackoverflow.com/a/25564125/682648 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437893080379
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Loqi who, me?
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moredhel Kegsay working on a plugin for matrix allowing matrix clients to send micropubs
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KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: I pinched your css, but the hovercards aren't on top of other hoverabel links
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KartikPrabhu weird
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: do you have an exmaple I can look at
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moredhel gorzilla demoing his project for this weekend
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Jeena It would be cool if the people would tell their name and domain before they demo ;)
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moredhel ... couldn't get sandstorm to work because of kernel issues.
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moredhel ... used docker instead using _known_.
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moredhel ... was having issues with quill not reporting any messages.
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moredhel ... fixed an issue with docker not installing a ca-certificate.
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loqi.me created /Matrix (+55) "prompted by kylewm and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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moredhel .. now demoing posting to site using quill
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aaronpk so many demos using quill as a client! makes me nervous that i was hacking on it this weekend!
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Jeena (y)
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moredhel franceso fran.io/trav.php
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Jeena hehe aaronpk same here
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moredhel exif non-standard
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moredhel random binary, and multiple keys
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KevinMarks__ Kartik see the link I just posted
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moredhel ... describing data, (geolocation, tags, dimensions) that can be extracted from images.
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moredhel tim, retout.co.uk
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Jeena for static map images I use http://staticmap.openstreetmap.de/
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moredhel https://retout.co.uk
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moredhel describing his old blog.
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aaronpk what are static maps?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "static maps" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100R
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moredhel describing his blog data-structure, built using a graph database, google-cayley, (written in go-lang)
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rhiaro tim is using AS2 vocab
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JarOfGreen Google has an API where you can pass lat/lng/etc .... you just get back a static image so no client side processing
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ : use a z-index: 1 on the class .hovercard .hidden-info and it should work
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moredhel wrote a perl script to hack together a go program
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aaronpk static maps are a way to show a map on a web page without requiring a javascript library
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loqi.me created /static_maps (+115) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437928164263 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Jeena hm pump.io with microformats would be interesting
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moredhel wants to try matching the pump.io api with his own, to allow for interop between applications
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tbrb Rhiaro shows her local demo on her chromebook (doesn't think it will support hangouts nicely)
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aaronpk the hangouts is still showing retout.uk for me
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aaronpk oh
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JarOfGreen Done for presentations we think .... rhiaro take the stage to close
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tbrb homebrew website club edinburgh potentially on the cards?
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Jeena next week the first one in Göteborg!
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Jeena *clap,clap,clap*
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aaronpk congrats everyone!
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rhiaro \o/
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rhiaro gets back to code
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aaronparecki.com edited /static_maps (+505) "stub with examples and code" (view diff)
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aaronpk Jeena: add yourself to the examples? https://indiewebcamp.com/static_maps
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Jeena ok
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GWG rhiaro, you don't think a Chromebook can handle Hangouts?
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snarfed aaronpk: hoo boy i can imagine all the clustering edge cases
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snarfed maybe start a list on the issue or wiki, i'd be curious
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aaronpk i think there are 4 types
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aaronpk almost have a gist
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GWG snarfed: How do I get user testing in addition to unit testing?
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snarfed GWG: sorry, i don't understand the question
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jeena.net edited /static_maps (+273) "/* Jeena */ added example" (view diff)
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snarfed also "in addition" requires that the unit tests exist, right? :P
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7YUAACSOS would also be interested in the clustering edge cases
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aaronpk i think there are 4 types of clusters: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5cbe2b53cfe566f356cb
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rhiaro GWG: yeah, it's perfect except when I try to run Google products
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aaronpk many-one, one-one-, one-many, many-many
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GWG rhiaro: Irony?
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rhiaro Runs Ubuntu juuust fine
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GWG snarfed: I am wondering if anyone is using the Micropub plugin actively.
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GWG That we know of.
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GWG rhiaro: The one I had in Cambridge ran Fedora
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snarfed GWG: aha. the wp directory counts downloads, obviously
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snarfed otherwise you just have to ask around or build tracking in
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snarfed (but no thanks :P)
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snarfed (also that's mostly unrelated to unit tests)
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snarfed aaronpk: my instinct was to not try many-many
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aaronpk snarfed: 7YUAACSOS: here is my test case for the code i'm about to write https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5cbe2b53cfe566f356cb
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snarfed UX/design there seems too hard
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aaronpk snarfed: i don't think i really have a choice, because it's a possible case
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snarfed not really, right? you can just pick one side to de-multiplex
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aaronpk that actually seems harder
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snarfed in practice you wouldn't actually pick, it'd be determined by the timer(s)
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snarfed huh. i guess it depends on the implementation
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aaronpk well this is all for the part of your description that says "send a single notification for the cluster" :)
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snarfed i'm still thinking in terms of https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-123388057
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GWG snarfed: The full statistics are only available to you.
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aaronpk yeah this is an example of what the in-memory buffer could look like after the timer is reached
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snarfed aaronpk: ah, right, the clusters i described would be per target and per source
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KevinMarks thanks KartikPrabhu that fixed it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-07-15.html
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GWG snarfed: I don't want to go that far. Just wanted to find one person
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snarfed "store in two in-memory clusters, one for source and one for target"
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aaronpk maybe i misunderstood that
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snarfed GWG: right, the stats wouldn't help with that anyway
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snarfed just ask around?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: nice
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KartikPrabhu can't any docs on how to add dependencies on app engine without cloning them into the app folder
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KartikPrabhu s/can't/can't find
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: can't find any docs on how to add dependencies on app engine without cloning them into the app folder
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aaronpk snarfed: do you mean creating a bucket for each source and each target that comes in?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: right, you have to do that. you can choose whether to do it via submodules, virtualenv, manually, etc
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/tools/libraries27#vendoring
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KartikPrabhu urgh
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snarfed (in practice, app engine de-dupes identical source files across all apps)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you have to d/l and set up deps anywhere else too, right?
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snarfed snarfed: yes
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snarfed ahahahahaha
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snarfed aaronpk: yes
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snarfed transient; they'd disappear when you send their notif
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aaronpk i guess i couldn't get my head around how that would work
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: the thing is I can't just make my service install hfeed2atom. I have to install hfeed2atom, and all it dependecies as submodules or whatever
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snarfed or via pip/virtualenv, sure. but again, you'd need to do that anywhere else too, or else hfeed2atom wouldn't work, right?
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aaronpk it seemed like it would generate duplicate notifications
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KartikPrabhu usually setup tools does all that for me. now it seems I have to manually install each dependency or something
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snarfed aaronpk: i think step 4 avoids them: "Otherwise, send a single notif for the cluster, and remove the wms from the other clusters they're in (source vs target) so we don't send dupe notifs."
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aaronpk for the set ((a -> z),(b -> z)) you would end up with three buckets, the "a" bucket: (a -> z), the "b" bucket, (b -> z), and the "z" bucket, (a -> z),(b -> z)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you can still use setuptools. that's what i keep referring to with pip/virtualenv, sorry if that's unclear. read https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/tools/libraries27#vendoring , look at how e.g. bridgy does it
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aaronpk how do you know which of the three is the proper one to generate the notification text from?
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snarfed honestly it's no different
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aaronpk there would be 3 different timers in that case
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aaronpk and if the "a" and "b" buckets hit first, you'd generate two notifications, and lose the whole clustering concept
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KevinMarks__ That's neater than just dumping everything into the project like I do with unmung
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snarfed aaronpk: it was definitely a straw man, so there definitely may be problems. let's see…
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KartikPrabhu is confused about the virtualenv thing. that link does not seem to say anything about that
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snarfed for that example, there are two timers, so when a timer expires, you look at both source and target buckets and send the one with more notifs?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: true. it's not explicit there. here's a pretty simple example: https://github.com/snarfed/oauth-dropins#development
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aaronpk snarfed++ for having two parallel conversations
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Loqi snarfed has 121 karma
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snarfed (ignore the two symlink cmds)
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snarfed heh
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KartikPrabhu hmm will have to investigate this pip/virtualenv thing
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: the other part of that example is https://github.com/snarfed/oauth-dropins/blob/master/appengine_config.py , which tells app engine to use the local/ dir
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: huh. i guess i assumed you were already using those. no matter, you can do the same thing with just setuptools, without them. just find the flag to install to a specific dir (e.g. local/ inside your app) instead of systemwide
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snarfed (sorry i don't know it offhand)
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snarfed GWG: if you're looking for wp micropub users to talk to, someone posted about having trouble on https://wordpress.org/support/view/plugin-reviews/micropub today. maybe ping them?
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KartikPrabhu what's the advantage of this virtualenv stuff then?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/dev/virtualenvs/
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snarfed basically dependency isolation
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GWG snarfed: Sounds like the Readme needs work
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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snarfed aaronpk: did the 2 vs 3 timers thing make sense?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: gotcha. will look into it this afternoon
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aaronpk yes
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snarfed cool
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aaronpk is the timer per source/target or global?
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snarfed per mention
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GWG snarfed: The commenter created their account today
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snarfed ie (source target) pair
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aaronpk oof
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snarfed definitely don't use a thread :P
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aaronpk i was going to fake a "timer" by setting timestamps in redis and running something on a 1s schedule
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snarfed or at least not one per timer
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snarfed oh sure totally fine
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snarfed aaronpk++ btw thanks so much for working on clustering!
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Loqi aaronpk has 908 karma
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aaronpk yeah it's about time :)
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snarfed it's lightly bugged me for a while that bridgy generated so many ugly notifs and floods here, so i appreciate that you're helping fix those
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snarfed (to be clear, all bridgy's fault, i'm just glad they're all fixable)
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aaronpk well it's gonna happen with or without bridgy eventually :)
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snarfed sure! bridgy was still a big (effectively qualitative) step fn in noise though
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snarfed noise--
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Loqi noise has -2 karma
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snarfed anyway
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snarfed congrats all on iwc edi!
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snarfed back later
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rhiaro !tell benwerd now we're in the Hoose, 3x giant nachos imminent, shout if you want to see :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk rhiaro: nachos is a highlight word for me :)
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rhiaro you should have come aaronpk! This pub has the biggest nachos EVER
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rhiaro Also a slightly smaller version with vegan cheese
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GWG rhiaro: Were there any WordPress users at IWC Edinburgh when you were talking about MicroPub?
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GWG I can't think a new user commenting on the WordPress MicroPub plugin today is a coincidence.
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rhiaro GWG: I don't think so. I did remind people it was available a few times. Who was it?
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GWG No idea, username proflapin.
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GWG May just be a coincidence
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rhiaro oh yeah, he was here
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GWG So, I was right. Not a coincidence.
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GWG rhiaro: Just wanted to find out what the trouble was to try to help, as part of the WordPress Outreach Club.
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GWG I guess though, the plugin won't work on Wordpress.com
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rhiaro GWG: yeah, that sounds like his problem
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rhiaro He has a wordpress.com site
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GWG I just found him on the guest list
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rhiaro He didn't say anything today, or at least, I didn't hear
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GWG Okay. Well, if nothing else, there's a comment under it offering to help
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GWG aaronpk: That reminds me. At IWC, there were a few people who wanted to do Indieweb WordPress tutorials. I forgot to ask where the results were.
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KevinMarks_ Silo.pub works for WordPress.com
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kylewm aaronpk: for the POST to verify a code against an authorization_endpoint, what status code should it return for failure?
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aaronpk 400. See OAuth docs
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kylewm oh cool I didn't realize that was part of OAuth
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aaronpk Oh nvm you're right, that's part of the IndieAuth extension. But the same codes should apply
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kylewm.com edited /token-endpoint (+24) "/* Access Token Request */ clarify this is a POST request" (view diff)
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@rhiaro Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/625368298100781056)
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GWG kylewm: You wrote silo.pub, right?
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kylewm i did
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kylewm aaronpk: I have to say it's a little weird that you GET to an authorizaton_endpoint to get the code and POST to verify it, and POST to a token_endpoint to get the token and GET to verify it
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GWG kylewm: You are using the WordPress.com JSON API?
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kylewm GWG: yes
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GWG kylewm: Because there is also the Jetpack JSON API and the WordPress REST API that will hopefully go into WordPress 4.4(long delayed)
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kylewm I use https://public-api.wordpress.com/rest/v1.1
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kylewm I'm not sure which one that is
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @jarofgreen: What I worked on at #indiewebcamp for @OpenACalendar ... https://jarofgreen.co.uk/2015/what-i-worked-on-at-indiewebcamp-for-openacalendar- (twitter.com/_/status/625371144200286208)
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @rhiaro: Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/625371213481803776)
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GWG kylewm: Just thinking that if you also support the slightly different JSON Rest API, you could support any WordPress site that installed the REST API plugin
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aaronpk kylewm: the get/post on the authorization endpoint is part of OAuth 2 (it's actually the browser making the GET), and posting to the token endpoint is also oauth 2.
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aaronpk i thought it made sense to use GET requests to verify codes/tokens because it's not changing state of anything
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kylewm I agree with that, but to be consistent, wouldn't the "verify auth code" bit need to be a GET?
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aaronpk checking...
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Auth_code_verification
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aaronpk oh hm, well that is derived from the oauth 2 exchanging an auth code for an access token
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aaronpk in this case no access token is returned
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kylewm oh interesting
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kylewm yeah that makes sense, you make the basically same POST request to authorization_endpoint or token_endpoint
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aaronpk right
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kylewm I guess then I would like it better if https://indiewebcamp.com/token-endpoint#Verifying_an_Access_Token was a POST... if you POST with a code, you get a token, if you POST with a token, you get verification of the token
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kylewm (but this is quibbling, I don't feel strongly)
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aaronpk that would make that step more similar to verifying auth codes
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aaronpk many micropub servers end up implmeenting looking for tokens in both the header and post body, so i could see having the token endpoint check both as well
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kylewm huh, I apparently didn't implement token verification in my site's token endpiont at all!
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aaronpk you don't need to if your micropub endpoint can verify the token on its own
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kylewm blargle flagle
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kylewm ok
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kylewm ok, I think I would like to make that clearer, which bits of indieauth and token_endpoint are required for micropub, and which are just required for interoperation with other endpoints
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kylewm not even really sure how to phrase that
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kylewm (it is similar to the PuSH issue, specifying how the endpoint should notify subscribers)
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aaronpk sure
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aaronpk i get it
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aaronpk does this diagram make sense to you? http://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
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kylewm ty aaronpk, sorry you always have to straighten this out for me. i will make a point to improve the wiki so hopefully you won't have to next time :p
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kylewm looking
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aaronpk these two parts are only required for interoperating with other endpoints http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/indieauth-flow-20150726-115528.png
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aaronpk if your auth endpoint, token endpoint and micropub endpoint are all part of the same system, you can do those parts however you want
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kylewm but I *do* need the first arrow there if i want to support distributed-indieauth
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kylewm right?
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aaronpk first arrow?
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aaronpk number 7?
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kylewm yes
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kylewm first big red arrow :P
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aaronpk i guess the question is are you making a micropub endpoint that only you will use?
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kylewm I'm making a micropub endpoint for silo.pub that only silo.pub wll use...
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aaronpk (e.g. all three auth/token/micropub endpoints are in the same system)
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aaronpk okay so no, the auth endpoint will be dependent on the person signing in
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aaronpk this is getting into the multi-user micropub realm right?
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kylewm that UML totally makes sense, I think it should explicitly include "discover token endpoint and micropub endpoint" between 5 & 6
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aaronpk oh yeah i forgot to add that part
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kylewm i don't know that it qualifies as multi-user or not
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KartikPrabhu gives up again on this app engine nonsense
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aaronpk here's a question, is this something you'd expect me to use by signing in as aaronparecki.com? or would I be signing in as aaronpk.wordpress.com
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aaronpk (i think the answer is the wordpress subdomain)
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kylewm the latter
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kylewm oh right, definitely not multi-endpoint micropub stuff
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aaronpk okay so in that case, you actually do control the auth endpoint too
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aaronpk as in, you could build your own auth endpoint for silo.pub
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: yeah, it's tough to get right... I was wrestling with getting the right verison of requests to run on GAE for hours last week
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kylewm aaronpk: yeah that's what i want to do
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KartikPrabhu I am having trouble with the webapp2 response object and setting content type and stuff
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KartikPrabhu no very good docs on those either
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aaronpk you could even make your auth endpoint use the silo login as both authentication and indieauth authorization so users only see one prompt
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kylewm i want to sign in to Quill with kylewm.tumblr.com, it redirects to silo.pub which redirects to tumblr's oauth
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kylewm indieauthception
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KartikPrabhu <BOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG>
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aaronpk yeah, the user would basically just skip past silo.pub with a redirect and see the tumblr login screen. you wouldn't need to show them anything on silo.pub for that
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kylewm exactly
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aaronpk so that means ultimately you do control all three endpoints, so you don't need to implement either red arrow
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: there are a bunch of examples of webapp2 stuff in bridgy et al, do you want me to dig up some?
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KartikPrabhu sure. i don't know if they'll help since response object is just refusing to set the header
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KevinMarks_ Which header? They strip some: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/requests#Python_Responses
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Loqi slack/snarfed: KartikPrabhu: i assume you saw <http://webapp-improved.appspot.com/> ?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_: I am setting a header on the response to application/xml and it insists on keeping the /text/html
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Loqi slack/snarfed: regardless, i can commiserate, learning new frameworks, libs, etc is always annoying
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: check out https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/activitystreams.py#L70
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes using that as reference.
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KartikPrabhu very bad docs I must say
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: inside a get method it seems to be working. But i can initialize a response object in some other function and change its headers
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Loqi slack/snarfed: webapp2 isn't required. use whatever framework you like!
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KartikPrabhu but it was promised as simpler!
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KartikPrabhu Django is overkill for something like this
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KartikPrabhu decides to work on a photos post instead.
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aaronpk photos++
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Loqi photos has 1 karma
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aaronpk now you can use quill to post photos to your micropub endpoint btw
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Loqi slack/snarfed: but you already know django. simple is relative
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KartikPrabhu in that case I can just ste up the service on my site with 3 lines
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@AlexKKearney RT @rhiaro: Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/625386676395896834)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: webapp2 definitely is "objectively" simpler. I'm sure we can get the header fixed... but on your site sounds good too!
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Loqi slack/snarfed: advocating app engine is low on my list of priorities here
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Loqi slack/snarfed: your call!
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KartikPrabhu what is a good status code to return if the atom conversion fails?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "good status code to return if the atom conversion fails" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100S
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aaronpk 500?
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KartikPrabhu hmm ok
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aaronpk do you know why it failed?
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7YUAACSOS If it's a known failure mode, I'd personally drift away from 500 which I tend to use for unknown or unexpected failure modes
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aaronpk yeah i was about to revise my answer :)
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7YUAACSOS Assuming the conversion is completely functional, a 400 would make sense I guess.
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7YUAACSOS Since they must've given bad input
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aaronpk i'm assuming the failure would happen on an invalid atom feed
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KevinMarks_ Interesting http://brettterpstra.com/2012/09/26/github-tip-easily-sync-your-master-to-github-pages/
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aaronpk er, invalid h-feed
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KevinMarks_ Or lack of a h-feed/h-entry? Or would that just make an empty atom feed?
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7YUAACSOS An invalid feed as in "does not exist" smells like a 400, but a problem with the feed itself.. There is a code for an upstream error I think.
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7YUAACSOS wants to say 502
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7YUAACSOS Which clarifies the error more than a generic 500
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aaronpk 502 = bad gateway?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: yeah, i think in general if you try to initialize your own Response object (in any framework) you're going to have a bad time
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myfreeweb hi everyone! haven't been there in a while. made some vanilla js web components https://github.com/myfreeweb/indieweb-components right now there's indie-action and fragmention-target, mostly based on existing code
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KartikPrabhu ok hfeed2atom service up an running on my own site see aaronpk's feed : https://kartikprabhu.com/hfeed2atom?url=https://aaronparecki.com :)
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KartikPrabhu myfreeweb: ooo <fragmention> component looks interesting. though not a big fan of web components. smell like XML, make-your-own-tags
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kylewm woohoo, I got Quill to post to Tumblr through silo.pub using Tumblr's own auth
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kylewm no involvement from indieauth.com
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aaronpk \o/
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kylewm now just have to do the same thing for blogger and wordpress before I can ship it :P
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aaronpk shouldn't be a stretch
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kylewm no, I've definitely figured out the tricky parts now
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kylewm thanks again for your help
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aaronpk no problem!
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aaronpk happy to help people put indieauth.com out of business ;)
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 909 karma
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KevinMarks kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 197 karma
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KevinMarks this is the magic url trick?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: woo nice work shipping everyone!
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rhiaro.co.uk uploaded /File:2015-07-25_Edinburgh.JPG "Edinburgh 2015 group photo"
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rhiaro Damnit wrong photo
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Jeena so what beer do you guys drink in scotland? http://rhiaro.co.uk/photos/1507iwcedi/nachos.jpg
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7YUAACSOS Random local ales
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rhiaro How do I delete it?
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aaronpk i think only admins can
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:2015-07-25_Edinburgh.JPG "http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437944605508"
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rhiaro thanks aaronpk
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rhiaro.co.uk uploaded /File:2015-07-25_Edinburgh.jpg "Edinburgh group photo"
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KevinMarks myfreeweb: those look great
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kevinmarks.com edited /fragmention (+166) "/* Open Source */ add fragmention-target" (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, where should I add the indie-action one?
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KevinMarks http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-action is a bit sprawling
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voxpelli KevinMarks: web actions
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voxpelli indie-action is the implementation tag for that one
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M-Kegan right, this should be better
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KevinMarks webactions is missing a ToC
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M-Kegan is 7YUAACSOS
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Edinburgh (+59) "Photo" (view diff)
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@matrixdotorg Matrix had loads of fun (and nachos) at #indiewebcamp Edinburgh this weekend - thanks everyone who chatted with us! https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056 (twitter.com/_/status/625416107868954628)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /IndieWebCamps (+2818) "Add Brighton and Edinburgh" (view diff)
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aaronpk so when is the next indiewebcamp then?
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rhiaro Cambridge, November?
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KevinMarks wonders why he is getting 400 when he fetches tantek.com now
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GWG aaronpk, rhiaro: I still want to do IWC NYC if a venue ever opens up
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GWG And I'm game for another IWC Online
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rhiaro GWG: sure I'd help organise NYC... that's close to Boston, right?
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rhiaro help to the extent I can as a stranger in a city
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GWG rhiaro: The issue isn't organization, it is facilities. I haven't been able to find a venue.
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GWG rhiaro: Define close. There is a bus you can get on for $10-20 that takes 4 hours each way
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GWG It has wifi
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rhiaro I took that last year for a single day in NYC
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GWG So, not insurmountable
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GWG So far, the best offer I've had is hosting the Homebrew Website Club in the back of a deli on 37th street
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GWG Wifi not provided
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GWG But my Karma Go may ship soon
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poka why not a 2-line shellscript to finger your friends to grab the latest .plan file. so much easier than fiddling with post-SGML dreck
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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anomalily Hey all. I'm here to tell you guys that Aaron has a book to turn into O'Reilly and he's not allowed to come play with you guys until he finishes!
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GWG anomalily: I have something to tell you
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GWG anomalily: Teacup works with the dev version of Micropub now
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poka web book w/ Dodo cover pls
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GWG anomalily: And, where is the material you all said you were going to create at IWC earlier this month? Is there anything I can add to the Indieweb plugin?
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GWG aaronpk: What book?
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anomalily @GWG His oauth book
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anomalily I failed miserably to document the stuff at IWC, because I stupidly decided to redesign my website instead
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anomalily I'm so excited that Teacup works with the dev version of micropub!
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rhiaro GWG: there's a Le Pain Quotidien in central park, they (in other locations I've been to at least) have free wifi, power sockets and awesome food
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rhiaro It's my go-to when I'm stuck somewhere in London for a couple of hours with nothing to do
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GWG rhiaro: We solved the HWC issue, and were going to try a few mid-Manhattan venues. Then zachdonovan got busy.
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GWG I may try to go it alone at some point.
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GWG But, can you do a two day event in a cafe?
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GWG Wouldn't they kick you out?
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rhiaro oh, I meant for a HWC, not IWC
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GWG rhiaro: For an HWC, my only issue now is having at least one other person
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rhiaro Isn't there much tech scene in NYC?
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GWG rhiaro: I don't know that many people.
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GWG I admit it
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GWG But I think an IWC would get people who might sign up for an HWC
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poka "AJAX. All browsers support it" , someone talk some sense into Melvin
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KevinMarks wow, about.me is abusive. Try to iframe it, it refreshes the top level
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KevinMarks !tell tantek I am sometimes getting 400 errors when fetching http://tanttk.com (note no /)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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anomalily !tell aaronpk to work on his book
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed lol
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GWG snarfed: I think I won't be using the reviewer to try and get feedback
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snarfed GWG: sgtm
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KevinMarks aaronpk needs some more important task so he can procrastinate that by writing his book http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/001079
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GWG snarfed: He was at IWC Edinburgh. He has a Wordpress.com site. They don't permit third-party plugins.
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Loqi [bridgy] Matrix favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/624627292413628416)
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@ken_bauer Feel free to as me about #flipclass #ccourses #OpenEducation #IndieWeb @TecdeMty #Tec21 #ProfesoresTec21 (twitter.com/_/status/625449121046925312)
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@papapelz Vorher schon auf GitHub, weil deren App ja die Betroffene ist. Und ich komm mir so ein klitzekleines bisschen nerdig vor. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/625450492303437824)