#indiewebcamp 2015-08-02

2015-08-02 UTC
modem, wolftune, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks__, cmhobbs, snarfed, shiflett, KevinMarks, benwerd and mdik_ joined the channel
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snarfed
aaronpk++ sounds like great progress on clustered mentions!
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Loqi
aaronpk has 921 karma
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snarfed
and it does many to many too? so the design is a bit different?
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snarfed
regardless, excited!
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aaronpk
it does many-to-many right now but I think by the time I clean up the actual display text it won't
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aaronpk
i think our initial design also would do many-many but the example I wrote up is many-one
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aaronpk
also this is definitely hard enough that I'm going to remove all notification text processing from my own site and let this handle it
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aaronpk
by sending a "shadow copy" of the webmentions my own endpoint gets to webmention.io, letting it generate the notification text for me
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snarfed
oh wow
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snarfed
interesting complexity trade there
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snarfed
so, rpc to wmio to generate the notification *text*
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snarfed
or generate the *notification*?
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snarfed
regardless, cool
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aaronpk
I'm still going to handle the webmention itself on my site, the part where it parses the comment text and such
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aaronpk
but for generating the *notification* text, i'm going to let webmention.io handle it
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aaronpk
for actually sending me the notification, i'll probably end up doing something like http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app even if I fake it by using Prowl
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aaronpk
i think it's time for a little text-first design
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aaronpk
what is text-first design?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "text-first design" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100r
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aaronpk
!tell tantek I hope you can fill this out a little! https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first_design
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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wagle
how do i delete user obloid.org from indiewebcamp?
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wagle
the app.net button attempts to clickjack me.. 8/
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wagle
i try to login, but nothing happens
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KartikPrabhu
wagle: guessing app.net's fault. if you have other silo logins you should try that. Github seems to work all the time for me
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wagle
oki.. poking around
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wagle
how do i point google+ back to my personal site? I thought I did
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KartikPrabhu
wagle: checking my own G+
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wagle
mine is the second from the right button on https://plus.google.com/+PerryWagle/about
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KartikPrabhu
wagle: I think in other profiles you add you homepage
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wagle
mines tehe ame as far as I can tell, except no https
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wagle
mines the same as far as I can tell, except no https
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KartikPrabhu
I don't see a "other profile" may be it is private>
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wagle
OOOOoo
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KartikPrabhu
your "other profiles" only has a Picasa link
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KartikPrabhu
wagle: use the "view profile as" Public on top of your page
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wagle
works for me, see picassa, buzz, and personal website
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KartikPrabhu
wagle: yes that's what I mean, if you view you profile as "you" it will show all info, but you might have hidden it from everyone else. Try the "Edit" link on the profiles thing and make sure you homepage can be viewed by everyone
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wagle
i mean, i say View Profile as: Public, it works for me
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KartikPrabhu
because I only see "Picasa Web Album" in "other Profiles"
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wagle
bleagh
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wagle
it all public
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wagle
moo.. if i sign out, it first displays the page, then immediiately replaces it with a black page insisting you login
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KartikPrabhu
yup same for me
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KartikPrabhu
no that one shows me the "Picasa" link only. The /p/pub shows me blank page
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wagle
wierd
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KartikPrabhu
yeah pretty much
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wagle
i signed in as wagle@metabiology.com, and he sees it
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wagle
oh i bet it thinks we are the same
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm alright
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wagle
how did you link back to your web site from google+
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wagle
ll i see is a vanilla url
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KartikPrabhu
i just added my homepage in "other profiles" as a link
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wagle
what url?
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KartikPrabhu
the same one I use for Indieauth
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wagle
oic, i dont have other profiles
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KartikPrabhu
it seems to know you Picasa album
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wagle
ok, i got it
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wagle
bah.. now flickr doesnt link back.. 8)
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wagle
but i finally read carfully enough to login
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wagle
thanks for the help!
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wagle
woot! aaronpk's fickr link seems to be broken.. 8)
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Loqi
giggles
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KevinMarks
A Heroku like open source project
elf-pavlik, lewisnyman, mdik, eschnou, catsup, KartikPrabhu, loic_m, frzn, j12t, interactivist, lewisnyman_, minsky, ehlovader, wolftune and shiflett joined the channel
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aaronpk
just noticed a new field in the gmail meta dropdown, along with From, To, Date, Subject, it also says "signed by"
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aaronpk
myfreeweb: good morning! it looks like your "author" property of your likes is being set to the person whose post you're liking
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aaronpk
it should actually be you as the author of the like!
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ShaneHudson
I need to fix my site to accept in-reply-to at some point!
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@kevinmarks
Homebrew Website Club with @Suw and @t at Mozilla this week reminded us of tag Tuesday 10 years ago: https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=3mgn #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/627884508197445632)
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GWG
Good afternoon, all.
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GWG
I'm once again struggling with storing microformats as properties of a post.
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GWG
Does anyone, on a reply, like, etc, store the h-card of the thing being replied/liked/etc?
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aaronpk
of the thing being liked? or of the person who liked it?
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GWG
The person being liked.
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GWG
So, I like something you wrote, I want to store your h-card attached to my like post
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aaronpk
oh gotcha, i was thinking you were handling webmentions. my mind is very much in that mindset now
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GWG
I could store the h-card, but then the data I stored could be either no longer available, or it could be updated.
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GWG
Right now I have no functionality in this area, but am trying to set things up if I ever had update functionality in future.
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Jeena
yeah I was thinking about that too, a list of h-cards can also help later on for easier tagging people in posts
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GWG
That would suggest the 'nickname cache' idea in the wiki
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Jeena
yeah, I was thinking just to have some cron job and update the list once a month or something
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GWG
Right now, I store that data attached to the post.
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Jeena
yeah me too
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GWG
The question is: 1. What structure does it make sense to store it in attached to the post?
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GWG
2. As I've considered before, should it be stored independently.
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Jeena
it depends on your backend, do you use a database or flat files or what?
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GWG
Jeena: WordPress, which uses a database.
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Jeena
Hm can you add new tables to the database for a plugin?
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@kevinmarks
“Google didn’t mean to ruin links for the rest of us, but that’s what happened.” #indieweb https://t.co/4wiN7gOF0a.
(twitter.com/_/status/627892529157943296)
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GWG
Jeena: I could use the users table.
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GWG
I've considered that before.
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Jeena
na I wouldn't, it is for wordpress users not for data like that
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GWG
Basically, it makes someone I have an h-card on an unprivileged user.
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GWG
WordPress has a role for 'subscriber'.
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Jeena
yeah which is kind of weird
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Jeena
the h-card as unprivileged user
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Jeena
I would have a address_book table or something
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GWG
Subscriber is basically a read only role.
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Jeena
and put there name, domain, avatar, email
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Jeena
if you're not able to add new tables then this would be a solution, sure
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Jeena
even though more a hack but still a solution
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GWG
Jeena: Would you want to 'log into' my site and update my copy of your h-card?
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Jeena
no, I would want to change my h-card on my website and it should be changed on your site accordingly
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Jeena
(even a lag of a couple of weeks doesn't matter)
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Jeena
because I don't want to log in into hundreds of websites I never visited to change my data manually
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GWG
Jeena: You can create custom tables in WordPress. But I'd rather integrate into what is there already.
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Jeena
and the person you have a h-card is semantically not a subsriber
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GWG
Jeena: That is what custom-roles are for.
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Jeena
does it have anough fields for what you want to save?
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GWG
Jeena: User metadata is infinitely extensible.
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Jeena
ok, it will work but it's still wrong ;)
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GWG
But right now, I'm storing attached to the post, but in a strange place.
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GWG
I'm trying to store using microformat names and structure, but cards of people I'm liking or replying to are stored under cite->card
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GWG
So, a subproperty, which I'm not sure I like, even though I picked it.
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aaronpk
I'm designing notification text for webmention.io, would love feedback on this: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-125020178
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GWG
aaronpk: That stuff would go great in the wiki as well.
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aaronpk
i was thinking about adding it to the notifications page
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GWG
aaronpk: I approve
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GWG
I worked last month on trying to make my notifications more useful.
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GWG
I haven't gotten to clustering yet.
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GWG
The question comes for me that if you send your notification when an event happens, how do you decide to combine events?
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aaronpk
what i'm doing here is adding a delay, so when a webmention comes in I wait for some time for others to arrive, and after N seconds, I send a notification for everything that is pending
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aaronpk
the tradeoff is the notifications are no longer immediate
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Jeena
how do you people do notifications, via email or how?
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aaronpk
I use the iOS Prowl app, it provides an HTTP API that sends push notifications to my phone
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aaronpk
what is Prowl?
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Loqi
Prowl is an app and a service that allows you to send push notifications to your iOS devices https://indiewebcamp.com/Prowl
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GWG
What is Pushover?
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Loqi
Pushover makes it easy to get real-time notifications on Android, iOS, and desktop systems https://indiewebcamp.com/Pushover
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Jeena
I see that would be build into a reader app later on I guess
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aaronpk
I still want to make this actually http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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GWG
aaronpk: Clustering comments makes less sense than clustering likes though, for example. You'd want immediate notification of a comment, I'd think
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@LloydDavis
RT @t: Seeing tweets re #foocamp “alphas”. Alpha enough to #ownyourdata? Or just Betas to Silos? Makers, make thy #indieweb. (ttk.me t4cU3)
(twitter.com/_/status/627896930627133440)
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GWG
Does any Micropub client support multi-reply?
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wagle
is there some sort of checklist of things to do to mf2_s before its "ready to go"? I want to play with microformats and sempress squanders whitespace
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GWG
wagle: Checklist in what sense? It is designed to be a barely styled theme you use to make other themes.
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GWG
I have made a few themes based on various iterations of it
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GWG
So has acegiak1, for example.
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GWG
http://acegiak.net/ - Is a fork of mf2_s
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wagle
i'm new to all this, but I'm a decent programmer for other things.. kinda intimidated by the size of a theme.. if I knew what mf2_s was missing, then I could go scrub through and figure each thing out
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wagle
for example, the 2010 theme is nearly perfect for me
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wagle
hmm.. maybe that means i should unify 2010 with mf2_s..
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GWG
wagle: You can try wordpress-uf2. It tries to add mf2 to any theme to the extent filters can
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wagle
ah, interesting
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wagle
i will try that
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GWG
pfefferle had asked for me to look over the wordpress-uf2 plugin. I think he just made a bunch of updates to it after a long break.
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GWG
pfefferle is the same person who wrote SemPress
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wagle
ah ok..
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wagle
i just like my pages to not require scrolling if they are small
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GWG
I remember on the 2014 theme, when installing wordpress-uf2, it messed up the display.
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GWG
I think I know why.
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wagle
hmm.. will get into it once i run some errands before it gets hot
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aaronpk
hold on to your hats. i might break the wiki.
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wagle
listens for a distant boom
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aaronpk
omg it worked
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KevinMarks_
reads scrollback
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KevinMarks_
GWG - someone who likes your posts is a reader, if nto a subscriber, so storing them in the users tabel deos make sense
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Finally got around to watching your appearance on TWiG
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KevinMarks_
is 'subscriber' populated from wp.com's built in reader?
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Subscriber is a user role that only allows reading of their own profile. It has no privileges, basically.
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KevinMarks_
but how is it curently created?
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GWG
I assumed wordpress.com uses it for that.
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GWG
But I am wordpress.org
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GWG
Self Hosted
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KevinMarks_
right, so that seems to fit
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KevinMarks_
as they can edit their own profile by updatding their hcard on their site
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GWG
Yes.
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GWG
Sounds like a separate plugin.
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KevinMarks_
you updating it when you receive a webmenton form them seems OK
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KevinMarks_
do you copy their profile pic?
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KevinMarks_
there is the 'dead link profile image' problem
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Right now I optionally do.
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GWG
But I want to hand that off to something that can also be used by the other plugins that need it.
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KevinMarks_
whch plays into the 'should you use their profile image at the time of posting,or current?' issue
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GWG
KevinMarks_: WordPress defaults to gravatar, which makes that the choice of the person whose picture it is, as opposed to the site host
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KevinMarks_
but requires an email?
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KevinMarks_
has no idea how to update his gravatar
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[aaronpk]
Updating your gravatar is hard now cause it requires having a wordpress account even if you don't use Wordpress :-(
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KevinMarks_
storeing webmention hCrads in User tabel as subscribers (if they don't already have a fuller role) make sense to me
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KevinMarks_
aaronpk: re your mentions thing - Android allows you to update notifications in the queue; does iOS?
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[aaronpk]
In what queue?
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KevinMarks_
so you can post a 'Aaarpk liked this post' notification, get a ref to it, and later change it to 'aaropk and tantek liekd this post'
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KevinMarks_
the one on the phone
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aaronpk
no I don't think iOS has that
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KevinMarks_
not sure if that appleis to GCM too
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aaronpk
GCM doesn't provide a UI at all, you have to make the notification yourself, so you could probably do it
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KevinMarks_
ah, right, the app gets to do it
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KevinMarks_
so you have that API
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aaronpk
I had to fix the wiki microformats in order to continue working on this webmention.io thing lol
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GWG
KevinMarks_: I can make the avatar system in WordPress use a URL instead of/in addition to an email
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KevinMarks_
on iOs you can cancel notifications; not clear if you can update them
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aaronpk
I don't think you can, but it's been a while since I've read the docs
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aaronpk
It certainly was not possible last time I read the docs
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KevinMarks_
it's not as clean as the Android version; you might be able to change its alertBody if you keep a ref?
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aaronpk
there's no ID for push notifications sent via APNS
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aaronpk
you don't even get an acknowledgement that it was successfully sent. you only get a response if there's an error
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KevinMarks_
ah, I was looking at the app api
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aaronpk
APNS is the weirdest API. Luckily it's getting replaced with an HTTP2 API soon
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KevinMarks_
I have https://github.com/kevinmarks/nanotweeter on android, which I could update to check fro webmentions as wella s tweets
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KevinMarks_
I need to fix notification expansion on lollipop too
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KartikPrabhu
wow! on android clicking a link in the Gmail app automatically opens it in Chrome even though my default browser is FF!
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: same on ios!
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KartikPrabhu
that's stupid!
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KartikPrabhu
Google does not even respect user-settings on a phone
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aaronpk
huh. I think I might have enough to launch the clustered mentions
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aaronpk
it's kind of rudimentary right now, but it is working at least in my testing
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aaronpk
i think i want to do one more thing before I turn it on
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@kevinmarks
“…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://www.theawl.com/2015/07/in-no-charts
(twitter.com/_/status/627955544817405952)
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@alenevince
“…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://www.theawl.com/2015/07/in-no-charts
(twitter.com/_/status/627958714289520640)
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snarfed
hey aaronpk!
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snarfed
re notif links…i actually meant linking to the target too, at least in the multi-source case, not just to the source
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GWG
snarfed: I've gotten Micropub working with Post Kinds.
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GWG
After a lot of bug fixing that unit testing would have helped.
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snarfed
GWG: cool!
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GWG
snarfed: I'll be writing some for Post Kinds too, I guess.
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aaronpk
oops i meant target url in my comment :P
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aaronpk
oh wait i think i understood what you meant and then answered something different
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snarfed
ah good ok
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snarfed
so that's all targets in the many-one case, and some sources in the one-many case, right?
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snarfed
lol yes maybe
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snarfed
i *love& that wmio has/will have per-mention or per-cluster landing pages
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snarfed
i'm not sure if it adds that much incremental value to put in the notif text in most cases…but i don't feel strongly
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aaronpk
I mostly want the permalinks for debugging purposes
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aaronpk
so when a notification lands here, you can click through to see all of the individual permalinks involved in the cluster
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@fakebaldur
RT @kevinmarks: “…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://t.c…
(twitter.com/_/status/627960772610662401)
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snarfed
got it
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snarfed
in most cases you can get them from the source or target anyway, with some extra conversion work for silos…but i get that this is more convenient
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snarfed
eh let's ship and iterate. already this v1 will be a huge win
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snarfed
gotta go. gl!
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GWG
!tell acegiak1, acegiak I'm having thoughts again. I need to be stopped.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
notification text is *hard*
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aaronpk
so many cases to handle
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snarfed
aaronpk: maybe the silver lining is it's
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snarfed
er…that it's "just" complicated, and not truly complex...?
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snarfed
still damn complicated though
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aaronpk
I thought I was almost done, but then I realized I still haven't done anything for the one->many case
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aaronpk
I think that one is going to be easier though
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snarfed
? i thought your issue comment had lots of that
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aaronpk
yeah, but not the code :P
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snarfed
details
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aaronpk
this is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy lol "Matrix liked a post that linked to an event: "IndieWebCamp Day 1: Sessions""
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aaronpk
and exactly why i only want to write this once :P
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