2015-09-04 UTC
# 00:20 kylewm snarfed: you are loading me up with karma today
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# 01:07 tantek latest js;dr http://www.rei.com/s/all-deals - "It appears that your browser is blocking JavaScript. \\ REI.com requires JavaScript to function properly. If you want to search for or purchase items on our site, please configure your browser to use Javascript." because of course how would search and displaying product information work with plain HTML? perhaps they could learn from Amazon.
# 01:08 tantek and when you do load it with JS - it's SOOOOOOO slow
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# 11:07 acegiak petermolnar: I just want someone to solve the IM problem already
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# 11:31 acegiak to me the IM problem is the lack of a ubiquitous open standard for live communication that doesn't suck
# 11:32 acegiak like XMPP should solve these problems for us but something goes horribly wrong in the ux
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# 12:31 acegiak I think the answer at this point is actually to go back to xmpp
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# 14:22 Jeena hm apart from Java there is no microformats parser written in a language for desktop applications
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# 14:51 voxpelli Jeena: "desktop applications"? Node.js is used for many new desktop applications and there's a library for that one
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# 14:58 tommorris Jeena: we probably need a C/C++ parser at some point. and a .NET one. also, you can write desktop apps in Python. :-)
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# 15:24 M-kegan voxpelli : "Node.js is used for many new desktop application" --- really? What package is used for the UI?
# 15:24 M-kegan there a wxNode or something?
# 15:26 M-kegan huh, well would you look at that
# 15:26 M-kegan didn't know that, thanks!
# 15:28 M-kegan so it's basically like a browser, but with relaxed security so you can actually do more useful things?
# 15:28 M-kegan from what I'm reading
# 15:29 aaronpk several "desktop" apps are really just node.js backends with a web frontent
# 15:29 M-kegan humm... but everything shares the same thread? :(
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# 15:32 voxpelli M-kegan: well, the main-thread, as that's how everything node.js or js in general works
# 15:35 M-kegan I guess it depends on what you're doing, but for heavy cpu operations you're going to be screwing over UI responsiveness
# 15:35 M-kegan which is sub-optimal..
# 15:35 M-kegan I know node supports a cluster(?) module, but never tried it
# 15:36 aaronpk i have a feeling Slack is written in something like this, since the desktop and web clients are virtually identical
# 15:36 voxpelli then one would have to handle it as one does on an ordinary web page :) push it to some kind of worker och just divide it into such small chunks that the UI can steal back controll often enough
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# 16:53 tantek Loqi, you gotta know when to stop following redirects. Or at least handle relative redirects!
# 16:54 Loqi i'm sure me gotta know when to stop following redirects. Or at least handle relative redirects!
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# 16:55 aaronpk hm, when following redirects, should Loqi stop at a "302 Moved Temporarily" and report the URL before that?
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# 16:58 aaronpk ah the URL un-shortening library I am using does its own caching
# 16:59 KevinMarks is there a way to tell woodwind etc to follow that we can use as an indie action ?
# 17:01 tantek no one has had an itch to implement it on the consuming side yet
# 17:01 tantek thus I'm not sure it's worth designing/deploying something that won't get used/tested in practice
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# 17:02 tantek or your own site, if your own site has an integrated reader
# 17:02 KevinMarks but andy said not to clone it outside their login as he doesn't want co-ordinated trolls to get it
# 17:02 tantek KevinMarks: what end user benefit will you get?
# 17:02 tantek just adding markup to something without a use-case is not an end user benefit
# 17:03 KevinMarks i can click follow on someone interesting site and they are in my woodwind
# 17:03 tantek then you need to convince (or submit a pull request to) Woodwind also
# 17:03 tantek I mean, is kylewm open to making Woodwind a webaction handler / endpoint?
# 17:05 KevinMarks I was thinking 'oh, should add twitter follow intents' and then thought 'also indiereader follow intents'
# 17:05 tantek KevinMarks, the other thing is, all the other indie-config webactions are designed to work through your personal site, so "follow" should too.
# 17:06 aaronpk no, the other web actions are designed to work with whatever endpoint you set up. doesn't have to be your site
# 17:06 tantek then if you decide to use an external reader, your personal site should "forward" (whatever that means) or "delegate" that "follow" to your /reader
# 17:06 voxpelli SubToMe should have lots of endpoints for readers documented
# 17:07 voxpelli and +1 on Woodwind not being an indie-config provider – an endpoint for following is enough
# 17:07 tantek KevinMarks: for now, we don't have this need/itch well documented/figured out - so rather than hastily hack something that is likely fragile / not thought through, I'd say capture the need *first* on the wiki, and for now don't bother putting something hacky/untested on xoxo's markup
# 17:09 tantek KevinMarks: right - that's how you could implement "delegate" via handling the indie-config webaction on your own site
# 17:09 tantek I don't think Woodwind should be the indie-config handler
# 17:09 kylewm Woodwind does register itself with subtome fwiw
# 17:09 tantek because Woodwind itself has webaction buttons for like, reply
# 17:11 tantek KevinMarks - easiest thing for expedience is to use SubToMe then, since Woodwind already supports it
# 17:11 tantek does SubToMe markup work with a twitter follow fallback? or does it always take over regardless?
# 17:11 Loqi SubToMe is a button content publishers can put on their sites which enables users to subscribe to their feed in whatever reader they choose — sort of a universal follow button https://indiewebcamp.com/SubToMe
# 17:12 tantek if the Andy's or anyone else likes it or complains about it, that will be good feedback
# 17:13 voxpelli aaronpk: it's a centralized indie-config for feed follows that saves config in localstorage basically
# 17:13 tantek voxpelli: whoa - that's the clearest explanation I've heard yet - could you add that to /SubToMe ?
# 17:14 Loqi follow is a common button in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indiewebcamp.com/follow
# 17:15 KartikPrabhu how reliable is localStorage for these things? If it gets "full" are older things deleted?
# 17:15 aaronpk i think localstorage throws an error if you write to it when it's full
# 17:16 aaronpk and apps have a chance to request more space iirc
# 17:16 voxpelli I think a localstorage backed indie-config could make sense actually – as a low threshold way to get started
# 17:18 KevinMarks hm, the js button doesn't quite fit as that is a 'sub to the containing page' one
# 17:24 tantek huh, I just saw a "Save" button on FB that when you hover over it says "Click to save. Only you can see the things you save." is that new?
# 17:26 tantek Save is a private bookmark webaction button that [[Facebook ]] shows on [[link-preview ]]s of [[venue ]]s with the hovertext "Click to save. Only you can see the things you save."
# 17:28 snarfed if you have an opinion on it, feel free to weigh in or follow along over the next few days!
# 17:29 tantek ooh! I'll be following (as much as I'm online)
# 17:30 tantek FB use of /Save in that way echoes what I've been saying is a distinction between different actual uses/intentions of "Share" in practice, save=private (self only), send=semi-private (to one or a few people only - whitelist), publish=public
# 17:32 snarfed still hoping to hear at least one or two explicit "yes" votes on the logic in that link before i start. i'll give it one more day :P
# 17:34 KevinMarks right tantek - there is also one on events that is like a private maybe
# 17:35 KevinMarks I meant in utility - I use maybe to put an event in my fb calendar in case I want to go (ie if i'm in sf for some other reason)
# 17:36 KevinMarks save also puts it in the fb events tab so would work in a similar way, without notifying the event organiser et al
# 17:36 tantek it's not private - note screenshot of it showing up
# 17:37 KevinMarks 'only you can see' is private in FB terms as in 'not published to toters unless they pay FB to target ads on'
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# 17:45 tantek "community service"? oh wait that's different ;)
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# 18:07 aaronpk heh, the first comment is from one of the projects "no we're different we swear"
# 18:07 tantek yeah that was my Wednesday rabbithole - benwerd's blog posts are too darn good!
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# 18:48 KevinMarks I should make my PNGifier force the ratio to what fb/twitter want
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# 19:44 aaronpk wow just noticed that Slack has a built-in blog post editor
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# 19:45 aaronpk huh I need to pay attention better. apparently CSS has had calc() in it for a while
# 19:45 aaronpk this whole time i've been like "whyyyy can't I say 100% - 60px!"
# 19:47 KartikPrabhu aaronpk: be sure to provide default in case browsers don't support calc
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# 20:13 KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: can't recall that I use vw and vh much. They're far too "global"
# 20:14 KartikPrabhu possibly. not claiming they aren't useful. I haven't used them on my site yet
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# 20:15 tantek is assuming rhiaro is organizing a HWC Edi 2015-09-10
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# 22:43 aaronpk thinking about doing a pretty heavy reworking of Monocle
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# 23:00 snarfed at least if you want to really get the UX to a point where you'd switch to it entirely
# 23:00 aaronpk the fact is, I'm still not using Monocle as much as I would like
# 23:01 snarfed yup you have been spinning off microservices a lot
# 23:02 snarfed totally. i don't try to computerize my notifs as much as you do, but in terms of reading, i'm definitely happy i've managed to get it all into my reader (newsblur)
# 23:02 snarfed took a while to knock off the G+ long pole, but finally done
# 23:02 aaronpk it occurred to me that it is currently far easier for me to add random things to my IRC setup than it is to Monocle, which means 1) something needs to change about Monocle to flip that, and 2) I will not be able to move off IRC until then
# 23:03 snarfed i don't envy you the task of getting monocle to that point
# 23:04 aaronpk yes, and building essentially Yet Another Chat Client seems kind of silly
# 23:04 aaronpk I might try to sketch some of this out this weekend when i'm (nearly) off the grid
# 23:09 kylewm I hate "YA-" projects except I think it's hilarious when they eventually become the de-facto best or only one
# 23:10 tantek kylewm: exception YaYY - where the first Y does not stand for "yet"
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