#indiewebcamp 2015-09-18

2015-09-18 UTC
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gRegorLove Why do you use them?
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Zegnat A good sell used to be “because Google”, but I am not sure if Google even indexes mf2. Currently the best why I can think of is “so people can build tools that understand what the data on your websites is”. Another interesting source for examples is rhiaro’s http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/08/extensibility - marking up vulcano data so other people interested in them can find the info easily.
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gRegorLove If they want their information accessible by others and to do cool things with, like cross-site commenting, it's a lot easier to have them add a few classes to their HTML than to have them add some XML side files, yada yada
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gRegorLove Also, this is probably well-tread on microformats.org somewhere
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GWG I was trying to find a good succinct explanation, or write one.
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kylewm GWG: i sympathize, it's very tough to explain why people would want them unless they are doing cross-site commenting
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tantek GWG, start with why do you have them, and we can document more along the lines of that
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tantek snarfed, kylewm yes - manual comments display (webmentions or otherwise) on my blog posts (articles0
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GWG I'm also trying to compose my thoughts.
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tantek KartikPrabhu++ nice
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 120 karma
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tantek "because Google" was a horrible and short-sighted reason
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KartikPrabhu I'm afraid that discussion is going to be a lot of me being the town-crier
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tantek put too much power in their hands, and then they decided power = smarts and go deploy the schema-org bloatastrophe
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Zegnat tantek: oh, I agree, but it made microformats an incredible easy sell
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tantek it did? huh - that's an interesting side-effect / perspective. tell me more about how this happened (examples?)
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tantek or is that personal perspective?
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tantek / experience?
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tantek snarfed: re: the notes whitespace write-up, now I'm wondering if I left an edit open in a tab somewhere on a machine - ah well, I'll recreate it and if I do come across the forgotten tab later I can see if I said something smarter before or not
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Zegnat Before it used to be "add hCard and get your business indexed", now it’s "you need opengraph metatags". I can probably find some links on that
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tantek that's the irony is that FB did a much better job of staying reasonably simple with OGP, whereas Google overdesigned/overthought the whole thing with schema
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tantek wait there's no irony there - nevermind
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Geng Hi there everyone who is still awake... it is 1am in my position... I was waken by a cellphone game called lifeline... I should never try it before went to bed... The charactor in game said he will be away for about 1 hour, then I received a message one hour later, which is now..
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Zegnat Google will actually index opengraph, tantek, so that makes opengraph even more popular for SEO reasons ;)
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Zegnat See https://developers.google.com/+/web/snippet/
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__number5__ Geng: lol, that's some reallife gaming experience
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Zegnat Before Google used microformats for rich snippets, not sure if they still do but that developers page only lists schema and opengraph. No more mf in the Google documentation
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Geng Yeah,,, but it is kind of creepy to receive a message in midnight...
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KartikPrabhu Geng: __number5__ lets keep it on indieweb topics
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__number5__ Anyone using python for their blogs? Is pelican a good base to build/integrate all indieweb stuff on?
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Geng sorry....
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KartikPrabhu __number5__: using python with Django
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KartikPrabhu What is Python?
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Loqi Python is a programming language and web server runtime environment used for many IndieWeb projects https://indiewebcamp.com/Python
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KartikPrabhu there ^ __number5__
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Geng Wow.. good job loqi...
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__number5__ KartikPrabhu: thanks.
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KartikPrabhu currently kylewm's redwind seems to be the most mature project based on python
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Geng I will go back to sleep. see you guies...
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Zegnat Geng: sleep well, try #indiechat next time for offtopic anything :)
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kylewm __number5__: stuart langridge wrote a pelican integration for webmention.io i believe
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kylewm http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2014/11/29/enabling-webmentions/
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tantek Zegnat - yes Google still supports microformats. As long as the markup is predominant (e.g. hCard and hAtom still both outnumber schema deployments, likely mostly from WordPress) Google has incentive to support indexing microformats.
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[number5] thanks kylewm
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tantek And yes they are making OGP more compelling than schema
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__number5__ hmm, my irc username and slack is mismatched...
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Zegnat They have completely wiped it from their documentation it seems. All the top searches for “microformats” actually give pages with schema (or “microdata”) examples: https://developers.google.com/s/results?q=microformats
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Zegnat So SEO blogs have, in their turn, dropped microformats and are now recommending everyone to use other techniques, OGP on top of their lists.
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tantek yeah - they're being actually antagonistic, which is a big departure from when they launched rich snippets with handwavy RDFa support, claiming a principle of syntax neutrality
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KartikPrabhu __number5__: [] are used as conventions for slack names
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Zegnat Really bad for the web, IMHO. Microformats have always been easier to deploy. Especially for things like reviews. But this has, in my experience, made microformats a harder sell :(
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tantek Zegnat: irony is they have gone from recommending microformats (which was easier than RDFa), to recommending microdata (because it's a primary just a schema thing), to now recommending JSON-LD - and thus going down a path of recommending more and more difficult approaches for web authors.
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Zegnat Yep
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tantek more difficult approach for authoring = more errors = worse results
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Zegnat No argument from me
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tantek thus they seem to be doing it for political not technical reasons
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GWG So, what is the practical solution?
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tantek keep supporting microformats because it's 1) easiest, 2) already supported
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KartikPrabhu show examples of things that can be done with microformats like syndication, cross-site replies
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tantek huh, curious that Loqi didn't respond to you GWG
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Loqi yeah!
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tantek what is the practical solution?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "practical solution" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102w
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GWG I think it is the So
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Zegnat The practical solution is often to go with the easiest solution.
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loqi.me created /practical_solution (+87) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-17/line/1442536035733 and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat What is the practical solution?
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tantek lol
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Loqi practical solution is often to go with the easiest solution https://indiewebcamp.com/practical_solution
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[number5] you all are bot abusers
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tantek.com edited /practical_solution (+319) "expand a bit" (view diff)
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tantek number5, are you alive?
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__number5__ number5 is alive
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Zegnat who is number5?
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tantek.com edited /note (+903) "/* Indieweb whitespace thinking */ add summary of p-content vs e-content, vs more analysis, and" (view diff)
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Zegnat who is __number5__?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Brucewang.net
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tantek KartikPrabhu: s/specially in the/especially in the
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tantek in your post
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tantek https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-ad-incentive
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KartikPrabhu thanks
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Zegnat Ah, missed opportunity. __number5__, you should add a line saying you are alive to your user page and become a bot abuser yourself
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__number5__ Zegnat: good idea :)
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Zegnat DFN tags work for user pages, e.g.:
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Zegnat Who is Zegnat?
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven is a long-time web tinkerer living in Tösse, Sweden https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Vanderven.se/martijn/
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KartikPrabhu lol! at this reply: https://twitter.com/noalsilencio/status/644661823116025856
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@noalsilencio @kartik_prabhu @dangillmor easy: show Google to them, then ask them to do the same on their phones (twitter.com/_/status/644661823116025856)
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kylewm i don't understand that reply KartikPrabhu, can you explain?
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KartikPrabhu me neither. It seems he is suggesting to use Google as an example of ad-free web services
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KartikPrabhu but the problem is the same. Google monopoly instead of FB
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brucewang.net edited /User:Brucewang.net (+117) (view diff)
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__number5__ who is __number5__?
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Loqi Number 5 is alive https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Brucewang.net
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tantek __number5__++ :)
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Loqi number5 has 1 karma
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tantek KevinMarks looks like FB hovercards have reverted for me - buttons are back
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, if i'm going to autolink @mentions to twitter handles what sort of mf2 should I add to it?
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ben_thatmustbeme does it make sense to add any?
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tantek other way around, what's the use-case?
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ben_thatmustbeme true, i can't think of any reason to, guess i was asking to see if there was one
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ben_thatmustbeme not autolinking, use case for that is pretty obv
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tantek yeah there was a reason I think barnabywalters asked for auto-linked @-names to get a class so I gave them one
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ben_thatmustbeme sounds like a rare need
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll just leave it without a class unless i really see a need
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ben_thatmustbeme find it hard sometimes to not be like "ooo a link to something, lets make it parsable" but if I do that, i end up at semweb
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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tantek I don't remember what the specific need was
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tantek right - and then you waste lots of time thinking of things and making things up and diluting your markup with useless things.
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ben_thatmustbeme yay, just rolled out twitter autolinking
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, wonder if i should do the same form #hashtags
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ben_thatmustbeme s/form/for/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: hmm, wonder if i should do the same for #hashtags
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, no, hashtags can be used in FB and G+
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ben_thatmustbeme http://btmb.me/s/DC
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ben_thatmustbeme it works though
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ben_thatmustbeme also, i like my live blogging setup now too. always a bit more can be done, but its pretty good
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tantek nice - yes improving (live) blogging UI is kind of a big deal
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tantek hmm - just posted my first reply to a FB comment which I tend POSSEd to Twitter using http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Replies_to_Twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme it forces me to put any live blogging stuff in a category too, which i think it quite useful
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tantek all my previous such replies were to indie web posts, not silo posts/comments
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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ben_thatmustbeme alas, bridgy does not do such an option
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tantek no I had to do it manually
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to get mpTweet fully functional at some point
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tantek but trying to reply to comments on FB POSSE copies using my own site
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tantek as we observed just over two years ago, one of our biggest challenges (still) is Replying UI
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tantek silos make it *really* easy to click one button, type a comment and post
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tantek still takes more steps to write an indieweb reply
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ben_thatmustbeme i sort of do that on my site interally, it just won't syndicate right
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ben_thatmustbeme if i am logged in and there is a comment on any of my posts i have a 'reply' button
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ben_thatmustbeme but reply while on other's sites is not so easy
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+433) "/* original lacks POSSE tweet */ example of reply to indie post vs reply to silo post/comment w/o POSSE tweet copy" (view diff)
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tantek right, that's the key use-case we have to improve
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tantek cross-site replying!
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tantek (including crossing over to silos)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: if it's a comment on your post that came through via Bridgy, how do you send *your* reply back to the context where the silo comment came from?
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tantek (because you can't expect that the silo commenter will know to check your backfeed comments on your site)
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GWG tantek: If you reply to the Bridgy URL, then logically, Bridgy should create the silo post
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tantek GWG - but the Bridgy URL provided is the URL to the original comment on the silo
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tantek and per history, FB dropped commenting from the API, so Bridgy can't POSSE replies/comments into FB
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GWG tantek: You didn't specifically say FB
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tantek I did: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-17/line/1442545137979
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GWG Yes, but I thought then you broadened it. I misunderstood.
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tantek GWG, you're right too
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tantek I wonder if there are instances where we can make that work with Bridgy
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GWG Bridgy is...as the name suggests, a Bridge. Bridges can go two-ways.
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tantek yes, they should!
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tantek still amazing how much we're still figuring out with all this stuff
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tantek I think a lot of it comes from the challenge of working with existing systems, but I think it is worth it, because that's the only way we're going to be able to provide people with reasonable transitions (while most of their friends/family are still on silos).
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ben_thatmustbeme Correct It will not syndicate back as of now
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ben_thatmustbeme Twitter it does work for though
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ben_thatmustbeme I
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ben_thatmustbeme If Someone on Twitter Comments on my post. I can reply from within my site in one click, and (as long as I syndicate to Twitter) I can reply to them
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ben_thatmustbeme Okay sleep time
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's worth doing a demo / screencast of
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tantek I've never seen anyone make that work
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tantek also even cooler if you see the comment on your post via a notification, and then can show a flow where you activate that notification and reply right there inline
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: does you inline posting use micropub or custom for your setup?
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[snarfed] just to confirm, if a twitter @-reply gets backfed to an indie post, and you indie reply to that backfed @-reply, you can definitely bridgy publish your indie reply to twitter
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[snarfed] should Just Work
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[snarfed] (famous last words)
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tantek that's awesome snarfed
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[snarfed] twitter is the only silo right now due to API restrictions, but flickr should be doable too!
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[snarfed] feel free to lobby kylewm to tackle https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/432
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tantek I'm curious how people are using Flickr these days - like to actually engage with friends/family? or as secondary backup storage of images etc.? or as an image hosting cache?
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tantek I gave up on my previous usage (posting photos in the order taken) because it was too much work, and Flickr kept breaking their uploaders (making them upload in random / strange orders)
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tantek snarfed, while you're here - did this edit cover what you were looking for re: white-space? http://indiewebcamp.com/note#Indieweb_whitespace_thinking
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[snarfed] looking
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[snarfed] yes! perfect. thanks!
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[snarfed] and i think that conclusion actually matches bridgy publish's current whitespace handling, so we might be able to close https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/446 as is
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@kevinmarks “We've gutted KPMG to rewrite our company manual to have the word 'creativity' in it” https://huffduffer.com/dConstruct/263580 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644755986847141889)
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@WillaCassandra_ RT @kevinmarks: “We've gutted KPMG to rewrite our company manual to have the word 'creativity' in it” https://huffduffer.com/dConstruct/263580 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644756596740984832)
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@kevinmarks “we'll build a better interface to the same old moribund piece of shit we already are” https://dconstruct.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/podcast/dconstruct2015-mark-stevenson.mp3 [00:37:29] #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644757320728051712)
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chupacab1a \quit
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mblaney I just added reply contexts to my site, would love any feedback. Here's a link: https://unicyclic.com/mal/2015-09-18-Reply_Contexts
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mblaney of course also happy to now like, share or reply to anyone's content to try it out ;-)
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@skddc Woke up to more #indieweb win: brid.gy can backfeed comments and favs from Twitter now: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/225 (twitter.com/_/status/644816067014078464)
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu its not fully inline, it uses /mp-config then pops out a new window to post your reply.
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell KartikPrabhu re:my ability to reply to twitter on my site. its not fully inline, it uses /mp-config then pops out a new window to post a reply.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks should twitter handle links be person tags?
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voxpelli KevinMarks: sounds sensible to me
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KevinMarks hm, looks like mentioning svgur.com on TWiG means I get nudes
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KevinMarks do I need NIPSA for svgur?
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aaronpk no no they shouldn't
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aaronpk tagging a person is different from mentioning them
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+48) "alphabetical 5 HWC cities" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+57) "alphabetical 5 HWC cities with indentation" (view diff)
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@voxpelli @mymlan @emanuelkarlsten @kwasbeb Ett sätt att förbereda sig: Att som @indiewebcamp flytta mikrobloggandet tillbaka mot egna bloggen (twitter.com/_/status/644919353054482432)
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@voxpelli @mymlan @emanuelkarlsten @kwasbeb Precis! IndieWeb-rörelsen fokuserar därför mycket pÃ¥ att allt ska fungera med existerande tjänster (twitter.com/_/status/644920726974300160)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@Covata We must tie key management + policy + identity to ensure a holistic approach to data centric security #ownyourdata http://t.co/QHtNrWPfzK (twitter.com/_/status/644932703322812416)
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cweiske when posseing articles to twitter, how could I get hashtags in the tweet without doing it manually, and without adding the hashes to the article title?
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cweiske so "Playing Tomb Raider 1 on OUYA" should get tweeted as "Playing Tomb Raider 1 on #OUYA"
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cweiske hm. I already tagged it as ouya. bridgy could take advantage of that
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snarfed cweiske: interesting idea. feel free to file a feature request!
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snarfed hmm. it would definitely be easy to just append the hashtags. in this case though, you're thinking of hashtagging an existing word in the title, in place
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snarfed i guess that's still pretty straightforward
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cweiske appending would be fine first, but when the word is already in the title, it should be used
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snarfed right
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snarfed so a smart algorithm would posse that article to twitter as something like "Playing Tomb Raider 1 on #OUYA [#bigsuck #games]"
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aaronpk clever
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cweiske https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/478
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snarfed thanks!
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KartikPrabhu Loqi messages?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 8 hours, 14 minutes ago: re:my ability to reply to twitter on my site. its not fully inline, it uses /mp-config then pops out a new window to post a reply. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-18/line/1442572383888
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi peers at the cookie
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@kevinmarks nice explanation by @gruber of how standards are documentation, not legislation: http://daringfireball.net/2015/09/de_facto_veto_power #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644946761811791872)
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@dre7413 RT @kevinmarks: nice explanation by @gruber of how standards are documentation, not legislation: http://daringfireball.net/2015/09/de_facto_veto_power #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644946939142795264)
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@belongbot4000 RT @kevinmarks: nice explanation by @gruber of how standards are documentation, not legislation: http://daringfireball.net/2015/09/de_facto_veto_power #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/644952832915939328)
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voxpelli I might have written an overview post of the indieweb in swedish: http://voxpelli.com/2015/09/oberoende-sociala-webben-2015/
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voxpelli And I don't really think my blog can submit it to IndieNews yet :(
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aaronpk hmm can you author html in your posts?
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aaronpk you could just add the <a> tag there
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voxpelli I have people-tags support, I just need to extend it for non-people tags tags
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aaronpk you can just "person-tag" it with the indienews URL
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voxpelli but then it would get an h-card
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aaronpk it will accept that, but that might not be the semantics you want on your site
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voxpelli aaronpk: source not found when I try to submit :P
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voxpelli may be GitHub Pages that is funny
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aaronpk yeah i got a blank result from the mf2 parser on your site
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aaronpk refresh worked tho
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aaronpk that's the annoying github thing where they sometimes return a 301 to the same URL
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voxpelli yeah :/
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aaronpk it must be some sort of anti-ddos protection or something.
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voxpelli I think it might be an async thing – rather than having the client wait, they ask the client to retry the request
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voxpelli weird anyhow
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aaronpk I guess I could make indienews follow 1 or 2 redirects
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voxpelli aaronpk: should I resubmit? or it will appear now?
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aaronpk you'll have to resubmit
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voxpelli yeah, some redirects would be good – I think I follow like 5
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@lasuprema Relevant, and note to self: publish on your own site syndicate elsewhere: https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #DF15UTD (twitter.com/_/status/644958482588831744)
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@brandontlocke RT @lasuprema: Relevant, and note to self: publish on your own site syndicate elsewhere: https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #DF15UTD (twitter.com/_/status/644958513890902016)
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voxpelli aaronpk: same error :P
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aaronpk hrm okay let me push this change
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aaronpk okay go ahead
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voxpelli aaronpk: still the same I think :P
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aaronpk weird!
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aaronpk what's the error it's saying?
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voxpelli {"error":"source_not_found"}
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voxpelli Curl-request:
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voxpelli curl -X "POST" "http://news.indiewebcamp.com/sv/webmention?target=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.indiewebcamp.com%2Fsv&source=http%3A%2F%2Fvoxpelli.com%2F2015%2F09%2Foberoende-sociala-webben-2015%2F"
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aaronpk well there's your problem
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aaronpk those need to be in the request body, not in the query string
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voxpelli right, thought I should be lazy and use a UI – of course I misunderstand the UI :P
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aaronpk just do -d target=http://news.indiewebcamp.com/sv etc
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Loqi [indienews] New post: http://voxpelli.com/2015/09/oberoende-sociala-webben-2015/ http://news.indiewebcamp.com/sv/voxpelli.com/2015/09/oberoende-sociala-webben-2015/
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aaronpk :D
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voxpelli :D
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-09-23-homebrew-website-club (+4506) "Basic HWC event based on latest 9/9 HWC event" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-10-07-homebrew-website-club (+4506) "Basic HWC event based on latest 9/9 HWC event" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-10-21-homebrew-website-club (+4506) "Basic HWC event based on latest 9/9 HWC event" (view diff)
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aaronpk yay first article on the swedish indienews!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-11-04-homebrew-website-club (+4506) "Basic HWC event based on latest 9/9 HWC event" (view diff)
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gRegorLove !tell tantek Set up HWC event pages through November 4th. Venues are all commented out and listed as TBD
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 15 minutes ago: Set up HWC event pages through November 4th. Venues are all commented out and listed as TBD http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-18/line/1442605781016
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tantek gRegorLove++ huge thanks for that!!!
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Loqi gRegorLove has 34 karma
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bear.im edited /HTTPS (+179) "add link to mozilla ssl config generator" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: re: "should twitter handle links be person tags?" - no that's not what they mean by default, absent any other information they are merely @-mentions. *Mentions* not tags.
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tantek oh I see aaronpk already said that :)
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tantek good FAQ though
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/644974183282151424
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@kevinmarks There's this thing we have on the web called clickable links. Remember those? Remember Facebook's 8 seconds rule? https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/644974183282151424/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/644974183282151424)
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KevinMarks (there's a video)
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tantek what is Facebook's 8 seconds rule?
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tantek hey Loqi no query?
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Loqi dude
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tantek gives Loqi a stern look
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Loqi eats the stern look
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KevinMarks http://media.fb.com/2015/05/12/instantarticles/
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KevinMarks "People share a lot of articles on Facebook, particularly on our mobile app. To date, however, these stories take an average of eight seconds to load, by far the slowest single content type on Facebook."
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sparverius i actually tried to USE facebook recently... it's all of the low quality shit that i try to avoid
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tantek sparverius - presumably you mean their "News feed" feature right? AKA home page?
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sparverius the fact that im equating facebook with their wall feature, and that with low quality clickbait shit, says a lot about their problem
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tantek "wall" is different and means "profile"
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KevinMarks subscribing to my facebook atom feed in woodwind clutters it
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sparverius err, home feed or whatever it's called when you're at their root (/)
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Zegnat To be fair to Facebook, getting “low quality clickbait” on your home feed means your friends somehow put it there
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tantek Zegnat - it's a mix of blame between your friends and their "algorithm" deciding to surface / focus on it
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sparverius Zegnat: well considering i havent actually looked or interacted with facebook other than events and private messaging...
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sparverius yeah, i know. i would rather get a real time firehose
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Zegnat tantek: Oh, that too, you have to make sure you set your home feed to “most recent” instead of Facebook’s preferred “top stories’
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sparverius wait, you can do that?
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snarfed KevinMarks: re fb clutter in a reader, me too. for me it would improve a lot with https://github.com/snarfed/facebook-atom/issues/9 and https://github.com/snarfed/facebook-atom/issues/8, both of which i plan to do Real Soon Now
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sparverius credit where credit's due: facebook's two factor implementation is one of the most solid ive seen in a while
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Zegnat sparverius: http://i.imgur.com/8bxsz5e.png
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sparverius Zegnat: yeah, i just did that
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Zegnat 👍
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tantek I "just" don't visit the home page nor use any FB "app" except messenger.
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tantek I have a bookmark for fb.com/events and that's all I need to view key things (events, notifications).
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gRegorLove FB is good for remembering the funny memes from several years ago
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sparverius i refuse to have any facebook native app installed on my phone
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tantek understandable.
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tantek their messenger client is frankly the best IM client of any out there however. lowest latency to launch, type, etc.
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sparverius not even from a privacy standpoint, they do this thing on android where they overlay your recent messages on top of other apps
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Zegnat I use Facebook a lot for staying in touch with old classmates or friends back in the home country
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tantek sparverius: what do you use for IM/chat? (besides IRC :) )
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sparverius tantek: oh yeah, their apps are top tier
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sparverius facebook messenger (in a browser), slack
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Zegnat tantek: I actually use WhatsApp more than Facebook Messenger
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rhiaro_ I also have avoided every installing anything facebook-related on my phone
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rhiaro_ ..I just use IRC
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tantek Zegnat - WhatsApp requires a phonenumber AFAIK
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Zegnat It does, yes.
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tantek rhiaro: have you figured out how to make a reliable PM link? or still using a # rhiaro channel?
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tantek Zegnat - I no longer have a personal phone number
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Zegnat WhatsApp is extremely popular in central Europe though, so I am not sure how I would do communications without it. Although Facebook Messenger is slowly winning some people over
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sparverius also just plain old sms; my friends are constantly complaining at me that i'm too hard to contact
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tantek Zegnat - you know FB owns Whatsapp right?
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tantek sparverius do you have a /contact page?
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rhiaro_ tantek: still using the channel
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Zegnat tantek: who owns what is not important, only userbase of the separate apps is important in this case
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sparverius tantek: I just started setting that up actually
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tantek my friends have no problem contacting me despite not having a phone # - in fact, when I show them how to install my "app" (that's what they call it), they're jealous and want their own
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sparverius After I let my vps expire by accident, I realized that I didn't actually use a web host for anything
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tantek what is comms?
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Loqi communication in the context of the indieweb refers to using your personal website as a starting point and potentially way for people to contact you https://indiewebcamp.com/comms
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gRegorLove WhatsApp has had some pretty bad security in the past, information being leaked. I don't know if they've gotten any better, but I still recommend people avoid using it.
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Zegnat what is a contact page?
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tantek exactly
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "contact page" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102x
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tantek A contact page is /comms#Add_a_contact_card
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loqi.me created /contact_page (+37) "prompted by Zegnat https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-18/line/1442611480993 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek oops double redirect
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sparverius tantek: ive seen yours, it's pretty slick. it's tempting...
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Zegnat gRegorLove: WhatsApp has worked with TextSecure’s Moxie to get end-to-end crypto going
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tantek.com edited /contact_page (+8) "-r" (view diff)
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gRegorLove ...still skeptical.
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tantek sparverius: when my friends realize that with that "app" "installed", I am easier to contact than their other friends with phone numbers, they start to "get it"
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gRegorLove crypto is hard
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gRegorLove (snarfed went shopping)
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Zegnat crypto is hard, so people are happy WhatsApp brought in whispersystems.org rather than cooking up their own thing
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ https://webmention.io/notification/-98bRyAxVs4oI0kgP6OJeg
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Loqi [mention] David Shanske posted https://david.shanske.com/2015/09/18/trying-to-explain-the-indieweb/ that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention, http://indiewebcamp.com/microformats, and http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub https://webmention.io/notification/RJj69ep8XI9mkb9TgeCjWQ
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+423) "start FAQ, Should Twitter links be person-tags - NO" (view diff)
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sparverius tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 241 karma
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sparverius that's a good point
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KevinMarks snarfed: i have also seen duplicate posts sometimes
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+123) "GWG Trying to Explain the Indieweb post" (view diff)
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tantek hey GWG did you get one webmention or two from my post? and do you moderate likes as well as comments?
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tantek Has anyone made any progress with posting limited access posts, and if so, how do you receive webmentions on them?
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@Shoq .@mathewi @ibogost "What if?" There's almost nothing left of the "open web." There's @indiewebcamp shouting at no one listening :) (twitter.com/_/status/644996805537701888)
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tantek not sure how to interpret that statement in lieu of the smiley
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tantek tries to come up with a positive reply to the original tweet that that one is quoting: https://twitter.com/ibogost/status/644994975797805056
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@ibogost What if the decentralized, open web was a historical aberration, an accident between broadcast models, not an ideal that was won then lost? (twitter.com/_/status/644994975797805056)
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gRegorLove What if we ignore that question and keep building the open web?
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tantek then we lose the opportunity to reach out to Ian, who does have his own (up to date) site bogost.com
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tantek it's important to distinguish between cyincism and an implicit cry for help or hope.
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tantek s/cyincism/cynicism
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's important to distinguish between cynicism and an implicit cry for help or hope.
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tantek gRegorLove: and you're right about it does depend on "keep building" :)
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tantek he uses WordPress, I'm going to send him to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress and see what happens
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@t @ibogost the open web is now for optimists building & living it. You use WordPress, try adding https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (ttk.me t4dG1) (twitter.com/_/status/644999827089174528)
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tantek how's that gRegorLove ^^^ ?
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gRegorLove Sounds good.
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