#indiewebcamp 2015-10-06

2015-10-06 UTC
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@kylewmahan big thing missing from my #indieweb experience is being able to see other people’s comments before replying. tough problem to solve. (twitter.com/_/status/651186266701107200)
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@aaronpk @kylewmahan I usually click through a couple levels up looking to see if any of the URLs up the chain show comments #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651186942114050050)
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tantek kylewm: do you mean your indieweb *reader* experience?
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kylewm tantek: yes
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tantek perhaps /reader#Brainstorming "(n) comments" indicator?
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aaronpk aha
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tantek just like /likes and /reposts
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tantek so that's the use-case for marking those up
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Loqi [mention] Dan Gailey was invited to https://webmention.io/notification/rz49iQXB-wI0r9y3uyVu5A
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tantek so a /reader can read not just the h-entry content etc but its summary of comments/likes/reposts on the entry!
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kylewm that would be nice UX; it's tough plumbing wise
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kylewm i don't want to poll every permalink to see if it has new comments
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aaronpk that's what salmentions are for right?
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kylewm and i don't really want to subscribe to PuSH feed for every permalink either
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tantek kylewm - hence brainstorming
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kylewm aaronpk: salmentions wouldn't notify a reader of new comments?
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tantek wanted to try to capture your UX need
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kylewm OK
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tantek even if we don't have a solution yet - which is ok
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tantek e.g. it might be to repoll / refresh only when user clicks to expand the "(n) comments" summary
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kylewm that's a fair point, I think that's sort of what Twitter does
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tantek right
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tantek I think once we capture the need, and maybe even start building, some easy / shortcut solutions will reveal themselves
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tantek E.g. the publisher could send a PuSH update for every new comment too (or once a day for new comments etc.)
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tantek some combination of publisher work and/or reader work could make this reliable enough
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tantek doesn't seem insurmountable ;)
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aaronpk technical challenges that have a clear UX need and outline are fun to solve :)
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KevinMarks hm, snarfed just removed the comment counts from the facebook-atom conversion becasue they were making the posts look like new ones
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tantek that's because the atom consumers couldn't tell?
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aaronpk sounds like an atom consumer limitation
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KevinMarks they were changing the content, so seen as new
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aaronpk with microformats2, the content wouldn't be changing since the responses are separate properties
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tantek exactly
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tantek this is an atom problem
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tantek er, limitation
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KevinMarks well, you can add other properties to atom too; embedding mf int he content may have the same issue
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kylewm.com edited /reader (+698) "/* In-stream comments and likes */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu push notifications can do the trick
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KartikPrabhu a polling reader might be harder
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tantek.com edited /negative_reasoning (+158) "narrow typical dfn to both negation conditional and negation result, note one or the other not as bad, separate examples accordingly" (view diff)
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kylewm really not looking forward to even thinking about how to handle updating likes/comments for the feeds that are proxied through granary-demo
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tantek heh
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kylewm.com edited /reader (+97) "/* In-stream comments and likes */ question about feeds created by a proxy" (view diff)
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kylewm same problem voxpelli had with salmentions -- how do i get the "representative url" for a bridgy comment/like, and no thte silo url
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loqi.me created /QR_codes (+436) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /QR_code (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /QR (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /QR_codes (+51) "linky" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /QR_codes (+130) "criticism" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /QR_codes (+82) (view diff)
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acegiak morning, all
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@kevinmarks Static website #indieweb https://twitter.com/baconmeteor/status/651213484789633024 (twitter.com/_/status/651221013787598850)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: Static website #indieweb https://twitter.com/baconmeteor/status/651213484789633024 (twitter.com/_/status/651221699942199298)
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@LMarsanico RT @kevinmarks: Static website #indieweb https://twitter.com/baconmeteor/status/651213484789633024 (twitter.com/_/status/651221881127702529)
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@klickreflex Are the any #indieweb approaches to have our own Instagram? (twitter.com/_/status/651278115684093952)
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@kevinmarks @klickreflex which bit of instagram? http://ownyourgram.com will post to your site; http://pestagram.com make it #indieweb friendly (twitter.com/_/status/651280153729871872)
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@kevinmarks @klickreflex https://withknown.com/ enables posting photos and http://reader.kylewm.com views feeds and posts comments so #indieweb pieces (twitter.com/_/status/651287589945643008)
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@klickreflex @kevinmarks Do I get you right that withknown is basically a indieweb compatible cms? (twitter.com/_/status/651291239527153664)
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@kevinmarks @klickreflex yes, @withknown supports lots of indieweb protocols and is easy to use by anyone (twitter.com/_/status/651291511976427520)
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Kongaloosh !tell tbrb have we decided where we're meeting up? bar50s?/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tbrb] Kongaloosh: yeah, bar 50 for tonight, saves changing it at a last minute
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Loqi [tbrb]: Kongaloosh left you a message 12 minutes ago: have we decided where we're meeting up? bar50s?/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-06/line/1444126310938
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Kongaloosh [tbrb]: do we have a specific time?
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Kongaloosh 5:30, I presume.
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@jkphl Once again for the day shift: There'll be an @indiewebcamp in #Nuremberg during the next @nueww, April 16-17 2016 https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/651347585685393408)
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@asciidisco RT @jkphl: Once again for the day shift: There'll be an @indiewebcamp in #Nuremberg during the next @nueww, April 16-17 2016 https://t.co/L… (twitter.com/_/status/651347705122430976)
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j0n.se edited /events/2015-10-06-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* Malmö */" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh !tell tbrb I'm going to poke a few people and see if we can't get some hoppers to come this week.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tbrb okies
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Loqi tbrb: Kongaloosh left you a message 4 minutes ago: I'm going to poke a few people and see if we can't get some hoppers to come this week. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-06/line/1444131769349
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vanderven.se martijn edited /code-of-conduct-examples (+696) "Have some extra links." (view diff)
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hofweber.se edited /events/2015-10-06-homebrew-website-club (+39) "/* Malmö */" (view diff)
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petermolnar <Zegnat> Yes, that might be a problem. I wonder if such a perception already exists in the IndieWebCamp community? Have webmentions been pushed to hard as a “comment through your own site” framework?
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petermolnar <Zegnat> This discussion should go to #indiewebcamp and be logged though
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Loqi petermolnar: pfefferle left you a message 4 days, 3 hours ago: https://github.com/swissspidy/oEmbed-API/graphs/contributors ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-02/line/1443779754510
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voxpelli petermolnar: regarding webmentions and comments – adactio's blog is an example of seeing it as two different things
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voxpelli after not having accepted comments at all and written publicly about it from time to time as eg. https://adactio.com/journal/1331 he activated WebMentions at IndieWebCamp https://adactio.com/journal/6469/
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voxpelli I like the quote:
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voxpelli "The best online conversations I’ve seen have been blog to blog: somebody posts something on their blog; somebody else feels compelled to respond on their own blog. The quality of such a response is nearly always better than a comment on the originating blog for the simple reason that people care more about what appears on their own site than on someone
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voxpelli else’s."
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Zegnat Quick recap from the off-topic channel: petermolnar provided links of websites turning off comments and wondered if it went “against webmentions as well”. voxpelli and I then got on to say “comments != webmentions” on which petermolnar feared “that for those who may not entirely understand how flexible webmentions are and see them as remote comments it will be part of the no-comments idea”
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voxpelli I also believe that quote holds true in todays social media world – many I have talked to claim that the best discussions around blog posts happens on social media rather than in blog comments today
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petermolnar I do welcome the removal of comments systems for every single site; also to bring them to social media, but 'silent' webmentions - not shown anywhere on the web - are basically overcomplicated emails
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Zegnat I think that is why /reply#Accept_a_comment makes it basically mandatory to add a link to your pages. I guess the real question then is how many side-discussions should be linked from the original content?
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Zegnat With loads of blog posts being discussed on social media (or reddit and other fora), how often are blogs currently linking to those discussions? And should an article on a bigger newsoutletblog even want to link to every comment/blogpost/tweet about it?
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Zegnat I really have no answers :(
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petermolnar is reading up on the linked content
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petermolnar interesting; the comments vs no comments goes back for a very long time; I'd probably blame WordPress for it to became the default to have comments on your blog
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petermolnar so if webmentions are displayed as comments, that may result the same issue of too much noise and/or too much unwanted content
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petermolnar therefore the question me is: should webmentions be "re-marketed" as communication form instead of reply with you own site? Because for me, the main description of webmentions is still the latter.
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[tbrb] Kongaloosh: I'll get there when I get there this evening, might be more towards 6, depends when my lecture finishes
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Kongaloosh cool, I'll be there. probs 5:30
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[tbrb] ok
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Zegnat petermolnar, if you look at /Webmention, is there anything there you think makes it seem that webmentions are specifically linked to comments?
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[snarfed] just as a data point, i deliberately allow (and appreciate!) native comments on my site in addition to webmentions, and i deliberately present them identically
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[snarfed] just personal preference
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Loqi [snarfed]: acegiak left you a message on 10/1 at 7:22am: let me know what I need to do to make bridgy recognise my POSSE tweets as POSSE not replies http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-01/line/1443709373559
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[snarfed] example post with good comments and good webmentions: https://snarfed.org/2011-08-03_why_im_weird_about_privacy#comments
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[snarfed] i present them identically so that the focus is on the message, not the medium
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petermolnar Zegnat: fair point; I might have been an initial assumption when I first heard about webmentions; that's why I'm asking if this is a problem ( as others will initially see webmentions as remote comments/likes ) or just a user error from my side :)
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@Lottejackson Homebrew website club is back tomorrow. Come and join us from 6pm - 7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/651401689250013184)
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KevinMarks this does go back a long way; see http://many.corante.com/archives/2004/11/06/the_tragedy_of_the_comments.php
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KevinMarks it is not mandatory to add a link to your page; the point of /vouch is that you get to choose who has that ability
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@benjaminparry RT @Lottejackson: Homebrew website club is back tomorrow. Come and join us from 6pm - 7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/651404684444483584)
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@andybudd RT @Lottejackson: Homebrew website club is back tomorrow. Come and join us from 6pm - 7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/651405637256134656)
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@kevinmarks RT @Lottejackson: Homebrew website club is back tomorrow. Come and join us from 6pm - 7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/651406974735618050)
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@electric_g RT @Lottejackson: Homebrew website club is back tomorrow. Come and join us from 6pm - 7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/651407310544310272)
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@voxpelli Soon heading to Homebrew Website Club in Malmö: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-10-06-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/651409957498298368)
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@kevinmarks @derektmead @adrjeffries you should look into receiving webmentions too - you can treat them like emails if you like http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/651413292372488193)
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@kevinmarks @adrjeffries @derektmead there is also brid.gy which translates twitter, facebook etc responses into webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/651417382385119233)
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@kevinmarks @adrjeffries @derektmead for example, most of the webmention comments on http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html came via Twitter and bridgy. (twitter.com/_/status/651421130318725120)
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@adrjeffries @derektmead there is also brid.gy which translates twitter, facebook etc responses into webmentions' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/651417382385119233)
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Loqi [bridgy] soupy adrianne replied '@kevinmarks @derektmead wow this is interesting. but seems limited by network effects' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://twitter.com/adrjeffries/status/651415057348362240)
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aaronpk what isn't limited by network effects?
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KevinMarks also, I thought limits were what they wanted?
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Loqi [indienews] New post: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/10/06/1/indieweb http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/10/06/1/indieweb
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thatemil.com created /Template:thatemil (+159) "Added my template and avatar link." (view diff)
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tbrb HWC Europe Beginning now-ish, starting with HWC Edi (HWC Malmö should be beginning in ~1hr if I get my timezones right)
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tbrb I have located a table at our new venue and am now waiting for others to arrive
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tbrb Tonight's plan for myself is updating a smaller side of my website - my CV :v
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thatemil.com created /User:Thatemil.com (+246) "Created page with "= Emil Björklund, @thatemil = IndieWeb-curious web developer living in Malmö, Sweden. Runs the Homebrew Website Club here, with {{voxpelli}}. Currently working on getting Web..."" (view diff)
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thatemil.com edited /events/2015-10-06-homebrew-website-club (-26) "/* Malmö */" (view diff)
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rhiaro nice one tbrb :D
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rhiaro tbrb++
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Loqi tbrb has 7 karma
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 10/5 at 12:27pm: do you want to or are even partially interested in helping organize an IWC MIT in November (maybe 11/14-15?) Please -1/0/+1 comment on: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/planning#Planning http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-05/line/1444073251819
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rhiaro tbrb: my CV is a series of snarky blog posts, at rhiaro.co.uk/tag/resume
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tbrb Kongaloosh arrives at HWC Edi
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tbrb mine is now on gh-pages
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KevinMarks specially for @benwerd https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651442720704176128
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@swarmapp This Saturday we had our greatest day ever with 7 million chickens! http://blog.foursquare.com/post/130625318273/7-million-check-ins https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651442720704176128/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/651442720704176128)
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gRegorLove https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651442720704176128 cc benwerd
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@swarmapp This Saturday we had our greatest day ever with 7 million chickens! http://blog.foursquare.com/post/130625318273/7-million-check-ins https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651442720704176128/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/651442720704176128)
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gRegorLove Haha, doh
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gRegorLove Shoudl read backlog first :)
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gRegorLove https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651444290531520513
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@swarmapp Correction: This Saturday we had our greatest day ever with 7 million CHECK-INS! http://blog.foursquare.com/post/130625318273/7-million-check-ins https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651444290531520513/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/651444290531520513)
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@kevinmarks do you have a Chicken API @swarmapp? I bet @withknown would call it http://werd.io/view/51c729a2bed7dee9639c9af7 https://indiewebcamp.com/chicken https://twitter.com/swarmapp/status/651442720704176128 (twitter.com/_/status/651445962376769536)
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benwerd kevinmarks: AMAZING
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benwerd I feel strangely vindicated
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KevinMarks spam webmention on that post: http://werd.io/view/51c729a2bed7dee9639c9af7
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aaronpk that's a native comment i think
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KevinMarks oh yes
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ShaneHudson_ Heh I'm glad I disabled native comments :)
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KartikPrabhu no native comments from the start here
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aaronpk just tried POSSEing a bookmark to twitter and facebook http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2015/10/06/1/pizza-business-pdx
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@dkreuz Wäre es so schlimm, würden FB, Twitter & Co wg. EuGH ihre Zelte in Europa abbrechen?Gäbe Raum für Innovationen. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651451270591606784)
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benwerd I see from social media that the chicken ecosystem (beakosystem?) is strong
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aaronpk hahahaha beakosystem
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aaronpk benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 90 karma
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KartikPrabhu chic-o-system
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@WolfgangKraus RT @dkreuz: Wäre es so schlimm, würden FB, Twitter & Co wg. EuGH ihre Zelte in Europa abbrechen?Gäbe Raum für Innovationen. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651452799214067712)
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Loqi [bridgy] heathervescent replied '@kevinmarks @swarmapp @withknown Here's y chicken flow flickr.com/photos/heather… &amp; the chicken ppt: ftp://ftp.kaist.ac.kr/chicken/chick...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/chicken (https://twitter.com/heathervescent/status/651447453464399872)
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Loqi [mention] Peter Molnar wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention https://webmention.io/notification/_fX2WcR7IJH3NhQfMiQGqQ
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@dkreuz @thaberkern @WolfgangKraus Nee, keine neuen zentralen Dienste. Eher eine Art Peer2Peer auf Community-Ebene. Mit #indieweb gibt es Standards. (twitter.com/_/status/651454459495714820)
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thatemil.com uploaded /File:hwc_malmo_2015-10-06.jpg "Homebrew Website Club, Malmö 2015-10-06"
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thatemil.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:hwc malmo 2015-10-06.jpg]]": Homebrew Website Club Malmö, 2015-10-06. Emil, Jon, Pelle, Patch." (view diff)
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thatemil.com edited /events/2015-10-06-homebrew-website-club (+210) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+115) "link AS2 and AS2 vocab, move AS1 to informative" (view diff)
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benwerd Interesting note: I can't POSSE links to Facebook Notes.
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benwerd Facebook simply removes the link from the POSSE copy.
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /post-type-discovery (+298) "/* Issues */ Specific to Microformats vocabulary, while incorrectly suggests support of ActivityStreams 2.0 Vocabulary" (view diff)
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KevinMarks what's a Note in their terms? is that the blogpost like thing?
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+221) "/* Issues */ provide answer to elf's issues" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks: amusingly yes. FB notes are mf2 articles
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/facebook.py#L95
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+914) "add Examples, starting with like-of -> like -> "@type": "Like"" (view diff)
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@belongbot4000 RT @kevinmarks: do you have a Chicken API @swarmapp? I bet @withknown would call it http://werd.io/view/51c729a2bed7dee9639c9af7 https://indiewebcamp.com/chicken https://… (twitter.com/_/status/651468341857660928)
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks and @belongbot4000 wrote a post that linked to a photo: "chicken" https://indiewebcamp.com/chicken https://webmention.io/notification/JhMgy1j9VOTL5t7Hok-mrw
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /deleted (+201) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ adding a link to a deleted post of mine" (view diff)
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snarfed interesting design challenge: https://snarfed.org/2015-10-06_iceland has big photo albums interspersed with brief text
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snarfed i like both parts, but the size of the photo albums make it easy to miss the text snippets
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snarfed also interesting, this is mostly only a problem on desktop; the albums are smaller vertically on phone
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cweiske snarfed, how did you layout the image locations?
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snarfed wordpress jetpack plugin
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cweiske which widget?
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cweiske gallery?
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cweiske http://jetpack.me/support/tiled-galleries/ probably
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Loqi [mention] Asher commented 'Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere 1 min read H...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (http://www.ashersilberman.com/2015/publish-on-your-own-site-syndicate-elsewhere)
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snarfed cweiske: yup
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cweiske "It’s worth noting that images in tiled galleries require extra-special processing, so they will be served from WordPress.com’s CDN even if the Photon module is disabled."
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cweiske :/
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snarfed yup
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aaronparecki.com edited /deleted (+274) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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snarfed the originals still serve ok from my domain, and i'm totally ok with using a CDN
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snarfed especially a free high quality one :P
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snarfed click on a thumbnail, you'll see that the "View full size" link points to snarfed.org
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /deleted (+430) "/* Ben Roberts */ notes on deletion" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/planning (+43) (view diff)
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aaronpk just updated my prefs for IWC Hack day SF in Nov/Dec
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aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/planning
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aaronpk would be great to get some other votes
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tantek kylewm: as the only other person signed up to co-organize IWC SF - what do you think of pulling the trigger on making 2015-12-03 the one day IWC SF Hack Day?
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tantek (WFM FWIW)
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kevinmarks.com edited /deleted (+930) "/* Silo Examples - twitter */" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, KevinMarks, benwerd, (and benward), iboxifoo, j12t, and any other SF bay area locals (or anyone who may travel for this) - last call - indicate your prefs for IWC SF by +1/0/-1 the options here: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/planning#Planning
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snarfed oh boy
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kevinmarks.com edited /2015/planning (+61) "/* Planning */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /2015/planning (+123) "/* Planning */" (view diff)
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basal Hey all, I just switched to known so I can POSSE easier. Does anyone know of tools to import all the data from silos?
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tantek welcome basal! that's a great question - I think it's specific to each CMS
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tantek and likely each silo
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tantek thus the question is which silo(s) do you want to import from into your Known installation?
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benwerd basal: Awesome! There are a few plugins to help you do this from various places, but we'd love more. Which silos in particular?
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benwerd Or, what tantek said ;)
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tantek defers to benwerd :)
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benwerd eg, here's one for Flickr photos: https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2015/02/12/import-your-flickr-photos-into-known/
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basal benward, ah, I just saw ones for wordpress (and maybe blogger?)
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tantek benwerd - quick (I hope) question - does Known keep track of *when* a post was deleted separate from the post's "last updated" date?
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benwerd tantek: It does not
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tantek just a boolean?
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benwerd Not even. It's just some logic - nothing on the data side at all (meaning you can get a false positive for deleted content that potentially never existed)
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benwerd basal: Yes - WordPress and Blogger are built in
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tantek.com edited /Known (+168) "/* How to */ Import from Flickr, use this plugin" (view diff)
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KevinMarks ah, so the tombstone is generic
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tantek benwerd, hmm - is there a plan to keep an explicit tombstone like that in Known for deleted posts?
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basal benward, it seems like the facebook and twitter plugins should have a similar import functionality
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tantek and do you have any interest in keeping track of the date deleted?
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KevinMarks aaronpk: did you write an "import via micropub" tool?
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KevinMarks has vague memory of one
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benwerd tantek: yeah, I think a tombstone (with date deleted) would be a v good thing. We'll actually need it for some upcoming features.
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aaronpk KevinMarks: I wrote one as a one-off for wordpress
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benwerd basal: that would definitely be nice. I think we need to do some hard work to parse those export files (vs RSS)
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aaronpk not really sure where it went actually
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kylewm tantek: thumbs up for 12/03 hack day
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KevinMarks one for twitter data export dumps would probably be not too hard, as they're in a decent structure already
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tantek thanks kylewm
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tantek benwerd, ok good to know re: date deleted
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@klickreflex Favouring my own tweets to test if those webmentions finally work... #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651480978075045888)
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KevinMarks facebook dumps are deliberately non-marked-up html (or were last time I looked)
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tantek we're trying to capture existing details re: date deleted, and opinions/interest on adding it here: https://indiewebcamp.com/delete#IndieWeb_Examples and here https://indiewebcamp.com/delete#Date_of_deletion respectively
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tantek benwerd ^^^ please feel free to add to those!
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tantek especially https://indiewebcamp.com/delete#Ben_Werdmuller
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basal I have seen recently twitter is hiding posts too. The url exists and you can see replies but not the original tweet.
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tantek really? could you provide an example of such a URL next time you see one?
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tantek kylewm: ok I see 2015-12-03 in the clear lead in https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/planning#Planning, and both kylewm and myself (co-organizers) can make it - any objections to 2015-12-03 before we settle on it for a one day IWC SF Hack Day?
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KevinMarks the twitter example is when you use the new way of quoting a tweet and it's then deleted
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loqi.me created /bd (+227) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /voticon (+212) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /voticon (+83) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /bd (+45) "linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /voticon (+24) "see also text-first_design" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /voticon (+635) "Background, concept, term, definition" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+13) "/* Other Types Under Consideration */ add delete to top of the list per question from csarven and evidence we have at least three implementations though lacking a consistent publishing format pattern (beyond use of HTTP 410 protocol)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+163) "/* Next steps */ progress on a couple of steps" (view diff)
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tantek what is echo?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Echo
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tantek.com edited /Echo (+21) "link term to URL, scare quote jargon, add questioning" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: in # social you expressed the non-sequitor "did echo die?" http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-10-06/line/1444156045203 were you referring to https://indiewebcamp.com/Echo ? If so, could you add what you've discovered there?
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+164) "/* Next steps */ add to FAQ Qs from Evan and answers provided" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /Echo (+351) "possible site death" (view diff)
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KevinMarks chatting to motherboard about their non-comments
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KevinMarks https://www.hipchat.com/g3XT2Zrwp
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aaronpk you can do that?
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aaronpk wow
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KevinMarks they invited commenters in
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aaronpk well this is fascinating
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aaronpk lots of authors in this chat
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@the_Zieger RT @jkphl: Once again for the day shift: There'll be an @indiewebcamp in #Nuremberg during the next @nueww, April 16-17 2016 https://t.co/L… (twitter.com/_/status/651500091291893760)
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aaronpk "nobody has a 'motherboard persona' so they are free to dump garbage into our comments" -Brian Merchant
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aaronpk which was in response to "Why do you think comments are better on other sites?"
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kylewm i'm convinced the only solution is relentless moderation
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kylewm not real names policy or user profiles, etc.
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Loqi [bridgy] Eric Zieger commented 'Not sure if I'm able to come. But I'll keep track of it. :)' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (https://www.facebook.com/688447421193285/posts/776538482457500?comment_id=776542235790458)
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KevinMarks does webmention.to have comment deletion?
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aaronpk no
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aaronpk i'd probably need to build a whole UI to support that
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petermolnar that hipchat is impossible to follow
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aaronpk it got ridiculous
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KevinMarks their chatbot not dming is daft
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aaronpk srsly
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petermolnar what happened?
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aaronpk it ended
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KevinMarks so, email to editor@motherboard.tv and cc your quill email address
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aaronpk nice
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KevinMarks now going to https://www.reddit.com/r/Motherboard/comments/3nr8ep/were_replacing_comments_with_something_better/
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aaronpk wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/Motherboard
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aaronpk it got spammed long ago
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /post-type-discovery (+835) "/* Issues */ AS2.0 Vocabulary does not define 'like-of'" (view diff)
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KevinMarks were you thinking of a webmention to email gateway, aaronpk ?
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aaronpk no, I was going to try to actually have a discussion there but that wasn't possible
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aaronpk if they said they'd be willing to read blog posts if they were sent in via email I was then going to point out that webmention is basically that but faster
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KartikPrabhu blogposts through email lol!
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aaronpk but srsly quill has an email-to-micropub gateway you should try it
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KevinMarks I just did
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aaronpk is probably actually the fastest way to get photo posts for your website
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aaronpk s/posts/posts from mobile/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: is probably actually the fastest way to get photo posts from mobile for your website
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KevinMarks hm, not sure it went through though
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KevinMarks is there a cron?
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aaronpk should be pretty much instant
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aaronpk it's handled via mailgun posting to quill
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aaronpk i see the post in the logs. what domain?
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KevinMarks known.kevinmarks.com
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aaronpk hm it didn't try to send via micropub
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KevinMarks should I have not cc'd ?
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aaronpk i should have logs in mailgun, one sec
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk oh yeah it does check the "To" address only
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KevinMarks oh
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aaronpk i'll make it check the CC address. tho it looks like you maybe BCC'd it?
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KevinMarks so I should forward to you
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aaronpk oh huh, well BCC would be better so then you don't give away your quill email address
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KevinMarks indeed
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KevinMarks and if they reply it'll post to my known
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks commented 'replacing comments with external posts 1 min read Regarding...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/replacing-comments-with-external-posts)
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KevinMarks supporting BCC makes sense
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KevinMarks forwarding worked, though I got email linewraps
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aaronpk did you BCC the last one?
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KevinMarks no I forwarded
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aaronpk er, the first one
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KevinMarks the first one was cc
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aaronpk she replied!
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks commented 'replacing comments with external posts 1 min read Regarding ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today?beta#bottom (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/replacing-comments-with-external-posts)
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aaronpk weird that mailgun is only showing me the "to" address, not cc or bcc
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KevinMarks well, in this case them not actually posting to my site is good ;)
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aaronpk heh
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@kevinmarks Replacing comments with external posts - an #indieweb answer: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/replacing-comments-with-external-posts to http://motherboard.vice.com/read/im-on-twitter-too cc @sarahjeong @mathewi (twitter.com/_/status/651510778885857280)
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aaronpk they posted the whole chat http://pastebin.com/4Wq7beKb
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KevinMarks is there a tl;dr that omits the crappy bots?
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petermolnar apparently, they won't have webmentions :( https://www.reddit.com/r/Motherboard/comments/3nr8ep/were_replacing_comments_with_something_better/cvqkb9d
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@mathewi RT @kevinmarks: Replacing comments with external posts - an #indieweb answer: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/replacing-comments-with-external-posts to http://motherboard.vice.com/read/im-on-twitter-too cc @sarahje… (twitter.com/_/status/651513215252361217)
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KevinMarks i was thinking about 'webmentions whether you want them or not' as a service
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aaronpk basically like hackernews but powered by webmentions?
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KevinMarks well, webmention.herokuapp.com is almost there already
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KevinMarks in that it will accept a webmention for any URL
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bear couldn't a h-feed of mentions be styled to look just like hackernews
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aaronpk that's what news.indiewebcamp.com was before i ripped out reply handling
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KevinMarks so it (or webmention.io, obviously) could accept and verify webmentions for any site
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snarfed the other direction is fun too: *sending* webmentions *from* any site, whether they want to or not
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KevinMarks right, but that's already doable
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snarfed oh, i mean at scale
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KevinMarks that's brid.gy
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snarfed no, bridgy only sends from the silos
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snarfed oh the blog service
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snarfed yes but they have to opt in
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snarfed i mean, without them opting in :P
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KevinMarks yes
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snarfed julien51 and i have talked about this a few times: superfeedr is in a unique position to do it relatively cheaply for millions of sites
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KevinMarks I'm rebuilding technorati here, aren't I. uh oh
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snarfed (bridgy could do it one off, ie you could opt in someone else - https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/420 - but it isn't set up to do it at scale)
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snarfed heh yes!
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petermolnar sound like a webmention sending spider
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KevinMarks anyway the point is, an indieweb site could choose to ping some webmention aggregators at post time
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snarfed right!
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KevinMarks then, you need a browser plugin to display the webmentions on sites you visit
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KevinMarks and if you're feeling fancy you do it with fragmentions/marginalia too
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aaronpk isn't there a plugin that does that for hackernews or reddit?
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KevinMarks hm, possible brid.gy issue here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Motherboard/comments/3nr8ep/were_replacing_comments_with_something_better/cvql97i
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snarfed sounds like a possible issue with salmentions in general
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[kevinmarks] This is a new one: gl;dr Take a look at @mcclure111's Tweet: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/651482137464541184?s=09
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@mcclure111 I have seen the future of the Internet. https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/651482137464541184/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/651482137464541184)
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tantek KevinMarks: presumably gl;dr is a subset of js;dr? "To view this website, please enable JavaScript in your browser. " :P http://networkeffect.io/
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tantek what does the site do anyway? is it primarily content based? is it an "app" ? what?
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aaronpk i would say it's "art"
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kylewm I got "Please revisit using Google Chrome."
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kylewm OK I bought a new video card, switched browsers, enabled javascript, now can i see this webpage??
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KevinMarks heh
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kylewm (it was kinda cool tho)
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tantek so it's the new Flash then
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tantek ok
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KevinMarks it was like we feel fine but with gratuitous youtube video
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KevinMarks wefeelfine is java;dr
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aaronpk OpenGL is better than flash cause at least it's a standard
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snarfed i actually liked the we feel fine book
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snarfed sep may have been a bit too "multimedia," but he did good work
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tantek.com edited /js;dr (+894) "The New Flash / networkeffect io" (view diff)
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tantek at this rate, in a few months there will be enough js;dr examples to do a whole talk on js;dr!
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tantek s/examples/screenshots
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Loqi tantek meant to say: at this rate, in a few months there will be enough js;dr screenshots to do a whole talk on js;dr!
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tantek brb, going to link to IWC wiki page from my js;dr post...