#indiewebcamp 2015-11-06

2015-11-06 UTC
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aliasd kevinmarks, it was from the IRC page on the wiki
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kevinmarks ah thanks, we should fix that link
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gRegorLove Tantek fixed it
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[shaners] what is h-event
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Loqi h-event is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up an event post on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-event
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[shaners] what is event?
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Loqi An event is a type of post that in addition to a post name (event title) has a start datetime (likely end datetime), and a location https://indiewebcamp.com/event
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[shaners] Should an event post in a feed be marked up as both an `.h-entry` and an `.h-event` or just as an `.h-event` ?
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[shaners] tantek: remember way back when we talked about the use of `-as-` prefixes to indicated post type (strictly for styling)? Which did we end up liking better?
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[shaners] `h-as-photo` or `as-photo` or `p-as-photo`?
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tantek we ditched it all
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tantek explicitly typed posts tend to be a side-effect of plumbing-centric design, because modern UIs ditch explicit post typing in general
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tantek the "what should an event be in an h-feed" question is still open
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Loqi [bridgy] Brian replied '@t @mr' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/reacjweet (https://twitter.com/TheSkinnyFatKid/status/662430292674768897)
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tantek I'm leaning towards an h-feed has a children[] collection of all its h-* direct descendants in the order they are in, and thus an h-feed can be composite of any h-* objects
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tantek wat
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tantek thus to answer your specific question, just an h-event inside your h-feed
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[shaners] kthx
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tantek now we'll have to see how current /reader implementations handle that :)
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kylewm see top two events on https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util?url=https://kylewm.com/
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tantek the interesting thing is that an h-feed can have some items that have a dt-published and others that are just "exist" like an h-event, and that have other datetime relevance
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tantek hmm - perhaps I should nest my events box on my home page *inside* my h-feed
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tantek just to follow-through on this (selfdogfood)
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[shaners] kylewm: where is the `type` attr coming from?
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kylewm good q, I think right now it's just hard-coded to "event" or "entry", but I should make it use post type discovery
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gRegorLove I have h-feeds of h-events here: http://gregorlove.com/events/
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[shaners] is that the `h-*` with `h-` trimmed off?
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kylewm [shaners]: no, it's worse than that :( but i can make it better with https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util.py#L287
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[shaners] So from a CSS perspective, yall that have both `h-entry` and `h-event` posts in one feed, what are you using for your selector to style both types?
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[shaners] .h-entry, .h-event { }
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[shaners] ?
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gRegorLove I also have dt-published even though that's not listed as a property of h-event. I've thought about hiding it if it's published after the event, since I will be backfilling many events.
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tantek hey I'm already doing it! http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://tantek.com/
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[shaners] what is title?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "title" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106B
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[shaners] what is subtitle?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/subtitle
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tantek all my h-events are direct children of my h-feed :D
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gRegorLove [shaners]: I don't style them differently currently, but I have .note on the same element as the .h-entry and .h-event.
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kylewm isn't there a wiki page about the evils of styling based on mf2 classes?
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gRegorLove I'm avoiding styling any mf2 properties
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[shaners] wait what? really?
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gRegorLove What are the evils of styling based on mf2 classes?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "evils of styling based on mf2 classes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106C
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gRegorLove Guess not kylewm :)
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[shaners] hahaha.
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tantek title is a horribly overloaded term that nearly always means something more presentational than semantic (which is why you should use name instead), except in vCard where it means job-title, which is what h-card uses instead.
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loqi.me created /title (+252) "prompted by [shaners] https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-05/line/1446771549562 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-10#t1420909434152 "I made a point of never adding css rules to microformat classes"
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gRegorLove I haven't through through it a lot, it just kind of felt better to use more specific, semantic class names for styling
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gRegorLove And to avoid complicated cascading
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tantek.com edited /description (+28) "dfns, period" (view diff)
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tantek I have some experience with doing both
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[shaners] both what, t?
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[shaners] the two things gregorlove said?
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tantek both styling mf2 classes and not
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[shaners] gotcha
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[shaners] me too
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tantek short answer: for a one-off site you don't expect to update much, go ahead an style the mf2 classes instead of complicating your code with more classes. for a site you expect to be "living", figure out the site-specific semantics of your blocks of content, create class names accordingly, and style those *instead of* styling mf2 classes.
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tantek s/an style/and style
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Loqi tantek meant to say: short answer: for a one-off site you don't expect to update much, go ahead and style the mf2 classes instead of complicating your code with more classes. for a site you expect to be "living", figure out the site-specific semantics of your blocks of content, create class names accordingly, and style those *instead of* styling mf2 classes.
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[shaners] interesting
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tantek that is what experience has shown to work better
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[shaners] re: title/subtitle, here’s a random Medium post.
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[shaners] https://medium.com/swlh/millennials-got-a-raw-deal-with-social-media-a63f85b52ac6
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tantek but of course you're welcome to try styling mf2 classes directly on a "living" site and see if you run into the same issues that others of us have - you might not - and you might figure out a way to do it sensibly / maintainable
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tantek s/maintainable/maintainably
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but of course you're welcome to try styling mf2 classes directly on a "living" site and see if you run into the same issues that others of us have - you might not - and you might figure out a way to do it sensibly / maintainably
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[shaners] Would you say that that:
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[shaners] p-name: Millennials Got A Raw Deal With Social Media
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[shaners] p-description: Essena O’Neill quitting social media is making a splash. And why wouldn’t it? It speaks to something we inherently knows is true. Social Media is mediated. It is a farce.
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[shaners] ?
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tantek nah that's a summary.
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tantek as a first paragraph should be, per journalistic / good writing practices
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tantek this is why "title" and "subtitle" are nearly useless
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tantek actual meaning is rarely either of them
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tantek they're essentially presentational terms
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[shaners] Same with this post? https://medium.com/middle-of-nowhere-center-of-everything/14-fictional-burgers-inspired-by-presidential-candidates-dbd7809898db
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[shaners] Is "Taste the splendor of the Bobby Jindal” a summary?
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tantek more like an h2
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[shaners] Would p-name include it?
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tantek it could
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tantek up to you
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tantek as publisher
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[shaners] I *am* wrapping both “title” and “subtitle” in a .p-name.
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tantek yep - only matters what you're calling a name. the title/subtitle distinction is mostly presentational, just current styling
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[shaners] But it feels like they should be separateable
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tantek aside that medium article on millenials is meh. and underestimates millenials adapting to social media.
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tantek shaners - not for any real world use-case
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tantek other than presentation
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tantek hence, presentational, separate them in your CSS, done.
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kylewm how would you mark up "Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans"?
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tantek what is that? ;)
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Loqi That! (or "that ^" or "that ^^^") is a rarely seen reply often emphasizing agreement with a This post, but sometimes[1] merely emphasizing agreement with a previous reply https://indiewebcamp.com/that
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kylewm title + subtitle
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kylewm I was thinking what's the difference between a subtitle and a tag line, and that's the first subtitle movie that popped into my head :)
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[shaners] https://medium.com/@veganstraightedge/rorschach-and-roomba-b270785f2595
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[shaners] To me: this is:
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[shaners] p-name: "Rorschach and Roomba: The Great Drowning”
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[shaners] p-x-title: "Rorschach and Roomba”
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[shaners] p-x-subtitle: "The Great Drowning”
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tantek nah - not x- because not worth experimenting with - it's already a bad idea to standardize something mostly presentational
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tantek p-shaners-* if you like ;)
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tantek or just shaners-title, shaners-subtitle for styling purposes
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[shaners] p-hs-* then
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tantek because no reason to pollute the parsed data with them
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[shaners] the presentation is part of the user experience though, imo. for example,
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tantek basically I'm at the point where don't bother to spend time figuring out markup for something unless you have a real world consuming code use-case
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tantek and so far, that doesn't exist for title subtitle etc.
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[shaners] it’s chicken and egg (that i’m about to explain)
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tantek except for styling with CSS - so for that just add "normal" class names
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[shaners] aaronpk: publishes a post
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tantek yeah no - there's enough experience in this space that I don't believe that
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tantek blogs have been around a while - long enough
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tantek also - it goes in the OPPOSITE direction of trends
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tantek blog posts with names/title -> tweets/notes/status WITHOUT names/titles
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tantek 1 -> 0
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tantek not 1 -> 2
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tantek also - note that Atom *had* a subtitle element, and how many Feed Readers did anything with it? ZERO. ergo, failure, ignorable.
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[shaners] i post a reply to it a reply to apk’s post. my post has (what i present as) a title and subtitle. if subtitle isn’t marked up in a parseable way, when apk shows my post as a reply it won’t contain the subtitle. Or it’ll have the subtitle mushed into the name with its styling. (that could make for a looooong name).
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[shaners] If no one is publishing subtitles, no one can do anything with them. and vice versa.
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gRegorLove Or subtitle could just be part of the *-content
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tantek shaners - I'm sure there were huge hypothetical arguments for putting "subtitle" into Atom, so they put it in.
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[shaners] tantek: re atom subtitle, was anyone publishing subtitle from their CMSes? or did the spec just provide the properiy?
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tantek In practice, no one cared.
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tantek I have no desire to rehash that theory -> dead feature discussion / outcome.
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[shaners] s/properiy/property/
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Loqi [shaners] meant to say: tantek: re atom subtitle, was anyone publishing subtitle from their CMSes? or did the spec just provide the property?
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gRegorLove Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo is a better movie with subtitle example :)
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tantek in practice the whole thing is just the name
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tantek shaners - doesn't matter - essentially you're following the same path as those that wanted "subtitle" in the spec.
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tantek you're arguing for just provide the property
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kylewm electricboogaloo--
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Loqi electricboogaloo has -1 karma
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tantek wat the wat
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[shaners] tantek: did anyone ever publish subtitles? did any CMSes provide a subtitle field? (that you remember?)
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tantek shaners - it was such a big hypothetical that HTML5 originally had an <hgroup> element (that even I thought was a good idea!)
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tantek for grouping h1/h2 that were title/subtitle
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tantek in practice - no one cared
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[shaners] I LOVED HGROUP!
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[shaners] :disappointed:
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[shaners] I used the heck out of it. Until it was ripped from my hands...
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tantek I used it a few times. Then realized I didn't use it very often. Then realized I was an exception in using it at all. Then I learned to stop worrying and love minimal markup.
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tantek less is more
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acegiak anyone else attach a url to their twitter posse posts? I occasionally get annoyed at having 22 characters I can't use because of it but it feels weird not to
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[shaners] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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snarfed1 acegiak: many of us have dropped links in posse posts/tweets in favor of syndication urls in the original posts
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acegiak snarfed, still link back if the content is >140 chars?
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snarfed1 sorry? i don't follow
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snarfed1 personally i haven't include backlinks in posse posts in a long time, mainly for aesthetic reasons/personal preference
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snarfed1 we should add some balance to https://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery#Tradeoffs . i don't think it reflects actual behavior in the community. we're pretty split on this in general right now
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Loqi definitely
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acegiak snarfed: if you have to truncate a post for twitter's character limit do you link back to the original then?
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snarfed i never truncate tweets
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kylewm i link back if the text is truncated, no link if it's not
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kylewm and codified this in https://github.com/kylewm/brevity
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kylewm (which supports all three behaviors actually)
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snarfed.org edited /posse-post-discovery (+584) "/* Tradeoffs */ more balance" (view diff)
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snarfed everyone who does or doesn't include backlinks in tweets and other POSSE posts, please review and add yourself? ^^
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tantek lol feels strongly
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snarfed sorry, i should have asked before using that wording
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tantek snarfed++ for adding examples of multiple approaches!
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snarfed i can remove or revise if you want?
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Loqi snarfed has 164 karma
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tantek just thought it was funny because it was such an obviously true historical characterization ;)
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snarfed heh ok
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snarfed i thought so too, but still i shouldn't put words in your mouth :P
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snarfed bbi10
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kylewm actually I've started including (permalink) on all Facebook POSSE copies
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kylewm because I don't trust posse post discovery to work on them :p
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tantek.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+118) "document my split behavior so far" (view diff)
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tantek I want FB viewers to know that there is a world outside FB
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tantek every single time they read a post
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tantek ^^^ hmm maybe that qualifies as "feels strongly" ;)
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kylewm lol I was going to say something similar
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kylewm or how about: Facebook posts are already ugly and buried in a sea of noise, so a little more noise doesn't hurt
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aaronparecki.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+34) "explicit headers" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /posse-post-discovery (+32) "/* Tradeoffs */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+38) "/* Tradeoffs */ FB/Twitter behavioral split" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+249) (view diff)
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tantek anyone see this talk? or know of video of it? https://twitter.com/calum_ryan/status/649861847907176448
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@calum_ryan My slides from last night's fantastic @codeHarbour are up! https://speakerdeck.com/calumryan/the-indieweb #indieweb + @IndieWebCamp (twitter.com/_/status/649861847907176448)
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[kevinmarks] The atom subtitle was used for the blog/feed not the posts
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[kevinmarks] I think summary is a decent use for the extra line under the name, yes.
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[kevinmarks] When I parse atom into h-feed I take the subtitle http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fepeus.blogspot.com%2Fatom.xml
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[kevinmarks] Feed has subtitle, entry has summary in atom https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.1.1
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[kevinmarks] For me it makes sense for h-feed to have summary for consistency
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[kevinmarks] The name/summary/content split is a good pattern to use in general
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+10) "sunday lunch" (view diff)
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@rhiaro @natematias hey! You/people you know (eg @medialab) interested in decentralised social web hackathon this wkend? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT (twitter.com/_/status/662519492707160064)
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@grthomas2014 updated version of Awaken now live on kindle.Angels&daimons &everything in between http://www.amazon.com/dp/B016ZK8SZC #bookrelease #YA #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/662556167722266624)
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@webrocker @bastianallgeier next step: kriminalisierung von trackmenot, proxy, ownyourdata initiativen. resultat: mehr leute wandern ins darknet etc1/2 (twitter.com/_/status/662559618397261824)
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Loqi [bridgy] J. Nathan Matias replied '@rhiaro I'll circulate info. Thanks!' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT (https://twitter.com/natematias/status/662629681863245824)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+172) "/* Participants */ new rsvp from eventbright" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+9) "/* Participants */ new rsvp was for 2 tickets" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+515) "/* Participants */ add sandro from 2014 entry" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ update quant" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+167) "/* Possibly Attending (from Facebook) */" (view diff)
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@dissolve333 I am attending https://www.eventbrite.com/e/indiewebcamp-mit-tickets-19365476662?ref=estw (twitter.com/_/status/662665847509504000)
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@chim0 Cool, the Linkback #GS plugin now sends webmentions. Thanks, https://singpolyma.net/ (twitter.com/_/status/662669842953199616)
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@chels_bar o hai @aaronpk, how do i sign up for This Week in the IndieWeb? thnx! (twitter.com/_/status/662670165914615809)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk ^
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: lol thanks, as if i needed another notification of that ;)
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aaronpk 2 IRC channels, phone, and watch all buzzed
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KartikPrabhu oh! ha. my bad then
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KartikPrabhu i forget that you get more notifications than I do
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ben_thatmustbeme one of my goals for IWC this weekend, get mobilepub working again
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ben_thatmustbeme since i cannot log in to it on my new phone
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@aaronpk @chels_bar hai! Send me your email address to aaron at parecki .com! btw will you be able to make it to IndieWebCamp MIT this weekend? (twitter.com/_/status/662672425155342337)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+169) "/* Participants */ up to 12" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-05#t1446774456601 I also include the permalink on FB. And it has to appear in the text, not the link preview FB auto attaches. Otherwise I don't get any FB backfeed.
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[snarfed] gRegorLove: huh. that sounds like a bridgy bug/feature request. mind fillng it if it's not there already?
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[snarfed] and you're sure it doesn't work?
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gRegorLove We discussed it on there. Not sure which issue it was :)
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gRegorLove snarfed: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/415
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[snarfed] thanks!
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[snarfed] so, looks like it's fixed now. is it still broken for you?
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gRegorLove Yeah, this post didn't get FB backfeed, only Twitter. https://gregorlove.com/2015/10/yes-america-its-time-we/
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snarfed thanks! i'll look
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gRegorLove Did FB change post permalinks? On my site I have my user ID in the URL, but FB shows my username now.
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gRegorLove Hm. I used Bridgy Publish for that post, so maybe that's what Bridgy returned.
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snarfed gRegorLove: FB has like 10 different permalink formats
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snarfed we try to handle them all
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/facebook.py#L225
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gRegorLove Wait, I think it's a privacy thing. Bridgy Publish did "Friends Only", so it wouldn't backfeed, right?
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snarfed ahhhhhh then yes
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gRegorLove Is there a way to specify "public" when I use Bridgy Publish?
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aaronpk i'm guessing that's coming from when you authorized bridgy publish in the first place
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snarfed i think you set that in FB, not in bridgy
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snarfed right
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aaronpk should be able to change it in facebook conenected app settings
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snarfed :) for a solution, :( for complicated non obvious UX
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aaronpk i do that all the time, authorizing apps to post content visible to me only
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aaronpk i am very glad facebook has that option
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snarfed app platform + multiple publics + privacy controls == no easy UX
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snarfed true!
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gRegorLove Aha! Thanks, snarfed
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snarfed gRegorLove: hmm the fb post is public. did you change it just now?
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snarfed https://www.facebook.com/27301982/posts/10101852308690604
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gRegorLove Yeah :
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gRegorLove :)
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gRegorLove I only figured that out since I tried opening it when I wasn't logged into FB
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aaronpk there's also a setting for "who can see your future posts" https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=privacy&view
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gRegorLove My next Bridgy Publish should work out of the box
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aaronpk here's where you can change it per app https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=applications
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snarfed waits for FB to break bridgy publish again
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gRegorLove Yeah, that's been public for a while. I didn't even think about Bridgy App settings.
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aaronpk when a random app requires FB login, I always set it to "only me" in case it decides it's going to post something
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gRegorLove Very good idea.
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snarfed scopes++
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Loqi scopes has 2 karma
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gRegorLove I hadn't thought of that and pretty much "never install FB apps" :)
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snarfed user-configurable FB permissions are (fairly) new
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snarfed those and especially JIT permissions, ie only ask for each perm when the app is actually about to use it, are great advances in app platform UX
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aaronpk totally
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gRegorLove JIT?
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aaronpk just-in-time
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snarfed there's some other more common term for that permissions technique that i've forgotten
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voxpelli snarfed: ACL?
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snarfed voxpelli: no
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voxpelli just jumps right into something
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snarfed lol
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snarfed clicks the poll now button on https://brid.gy/facebook/Gregor%20Morrill
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snarfed yay, backfeeding
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Loqi woot
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@jgmac1106 2 hashtags that are bringing community together to support the #OpenWeb. Proud to have #indieweb #mozfest together https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/662695122992279552/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/662695122992279552)
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snarfed wat
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gRegorLove Oh hai backfeed.
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gRegorLove snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 165 karma
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Calli what is h-review?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "h-review" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106D
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aaronpk Calli: you'll find more on the microformats wiki http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review
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veganstraightedge.com created /h-review (+155) "h-review" (view diff)
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[shaners] what is h-review
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Loqi h-review is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up [review] posts on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-review
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[shaners] what is h-entry
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Loqi h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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veganstraightedge.com edited /h-review (+2) "Oops. Internal links need double brackets!" (view diff)
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aaronpk need an indieweb examples section on h-entry
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aaronpk s/entry/review
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: need an indieweb examples section on h-review
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aaronpk is anyone publishing reviews on their site yet?
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[shaners] I’m not yet.
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[shaners] I have some old articles that are reviews that I need to markup as such.
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aaronpk i think i have one review on my site, not marked up yet
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gRegorLove Yes, though it's not set up with h-review markup, just h-entry.
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kevinmarks I did aeons ago when we first did hreview
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gRegorLove Heh. not-marked-up-yet seems to be the common response :)
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kevinmarks http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005/04/revisiting-waugh-and-armstrong.html
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aaronpk i even posse'd mine to amazon
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[shaners] http://veganstraightedge.com/articles/2006/11/18/4/review-dmz
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, [shaners] btw http://stream.thatmustbe.us/jsonapi.php?url=ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/9/16/26
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[shaners] Back in 2006!
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aaronparecki.com edited /h-review (+157) (view diff)
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kevinmarks andrew writes reviews, but doesn't use h-review http://www.andrewmarks.media/2015/straight-outta-compton-not-worth-avoiding
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aaronpk go forth and add yourselves
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[shaners] adding
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veganstraightedge.com edited /h-review (+362) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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[shaners] aaronpk: where on the wiki do we edit the little template thingy? {{aaronpk}}
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aaronpk you have to make one for yourself
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aaronpk copy http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:aaronpk
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Template:shaners (+18) (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /Template:veganstraightedge (+149) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline|http://veganstraightedge.com/apple-touch-icon-57-precomposed.png}}[[User:veganstraightedge.com|Shane Becker" target="_blank">User:veganstraightedge.com|Shane" target="_blank">http://veganstraightedge.com/apple-touch-icon-57-precomposed.png}}[[User:veganstraightedge.com|Shane Becker]]</span>"" (view diff)
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[shaners] thanks
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: Looks pretty grood. Is `data` not required?
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[shaners] in the jsonapi example, `data` is the parent of `id`, `type` and `attributes` which are siblings.
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gregorlove.com edited /h-review (+142) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, huh, i probably just missed that
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kevinmarks why did I get into this maths in svg nightmare?
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aaronpk b 27
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aaronpk oops
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ben_thatmustbeme [shaners]: fixed
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voxpelli both h-review and h-entry needs to have their relationship to h-entry and h-feed clarified better – if one published reviews amongst other entries in a feed, then how should one publish or consume it?
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: and looks like your `id` is still a child of `attributes`, but should be a sibling
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kevinmarks I have put h-review inside h-entry; I suspect that is common
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voxpelli kevinmarks: what data do you put in the h-entry and what do you put in the h-review and how would you want a reader to present your review? as an attachment to an entry or as the top level item in the feed?
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gRegorLove I think a /reader can safely display an h-review the same as an h-entry. The properties of h-review could be used to enhance the display in a reader, but it's not required. No fidelity should be lost (or very little?)
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gRegorLove My review has dt-published instead of dt-reviewed; that's the only difference so far. I didn't publish a rating or a p-item, etc.
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gRegorLove But agreed, /h-review could probably use a "Why", "How to publish" and "How to consume" sections.
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gRegorLove Like /h-entry does
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voxpelli and probably also a "Relates to h-entry" / "Compares to h-entry" / "Compares to other formats"
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voxpelli and /h-feed needs to maybe be updated to say that an h-feed can contain more than just h-entry:s as it specifically says that now
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gregorlove.com edited /h-review (+157) "+sections to be filled out" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme [shaners] fixed that too
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, gone
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[shaners] Nah, I’m here. I use the channel via Slack.
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: Looks pretty grood to me.
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[shaners] Would you mind writing up the jf2 version of this same note so we can compare the two?
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aaronpk http://stream.thatmustbe.us/?url=ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/9/16/26
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[shaners] Oh! Would you look at that!
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[shaners] what is pronoun?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pronoun" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106E
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[shaners] Prounoun is a word that can refer to another noun or noun phrase. English examples include she/her/hers, he/him/his, they/them/theirs.
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[shaners] Pronoun is a word that can refer to another noun or noun phrase. English examples include she/her/hers, he/him/his, they/them/theirs.
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loqi.me created /Pronoun (+160) "prompted by [shaners] https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-06/line/1446843441613 and dfn added by [shaners]" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk we have http://indiewebcamp.com/preferred_gender_pronoun
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kevinmarks 'preferred' is a bit problmematic
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aaronpk well it's existing terminology, it's not like we made it up
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kevinmarks yep http://mashable.com/2015/10/18/transgender-ally-words/
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aaronpk makes sense
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tantek greetings #indiewebcamp!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ for updating /2015/MIT/Guest_List with registrations on Eventbrite, FB, Lanyrd!
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 117 karma
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: could you also hotlink the profile images for the people who RSVPd via FB? (since they have FB image URLs for the profile images) ?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, good point
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tantek also, to all, especially IndieWebCamp co-organizers aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro sandro adactio kylewm - I did a BUNCH of copy-editing/rewriting of the have/want a personal site text - please review (and hopefully it's an improvement over what you remember) https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT/Guest_List#Official_Guest_List
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tantek Tried to make it more readable, friendlier, more approachable in general
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tantek Diff: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=2015%2FMIT%2FGuest_List&action=historysubmit&diff=22891&oldid=22887
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: similarly for Lanyrd (though do we have any unique Lanyrd signups yet?)
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kevinmarks wow, svg fonts are fiddly
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, not that i know of but "Your claim is currently being reviewed. If you need to, you can update your information below."
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ben_thatmustbeme come on Lanyrd!
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tantek hmm - are you in the list of organizers?
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tantek.com edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+170) "/* RSVPs from other sites (Eventbrite, Facebook, Lanyrd) */ link other sites, move to subtext rather than heading" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+525) "/* RSVPs from other sites */ add images for FB responses" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't have time now, but when i get home i can update the 'interested' list with photos too
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gRegorLove tantek: "and together you'll get your site setup with sign-in here and edit your entry!" The 'here' seems awkward/not sure what it means. Think it can be removed? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT/Guest_List#Official_Guest_List
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tantek good point
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gRegorLove Looks good otherwise. I like it.
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tantek j12t did you go to IIW this year?
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tantek.com edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (-46) "/* Official Guest List */ grammar fix, shorten" (view diff)
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j12t Nope
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j12t benwerd did, didn't he?
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tantek maybe one day? haven't heard back from anyone who actually went
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GWG Guest list is looking good
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kevinmarks ben and erin went for the first day
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kevinmarks said lots of bitcoin flummery
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tantek GWG, except we need your profile image :)
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tantek gRegorLove: review edit: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT/Guest_List#Official_Guest_List
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GWG Why does that keep happening?
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tantek what site are you using for your profile images?
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GWG I am using mine. I need to write my own plugin for avatar generation
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kevinmarks I give up on bloody math fonts
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tantek GWG why not just host a static image at yourdomain / photo.jpg ? you don't need a plugin for that right? just SFTP?
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GWG It has been an idea of mine for a while to do a drop in hcard cache avatar system for WordPress
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tantek GWG, sure, start small, with a static image URL. Then later build an hcard cache avatar system that makes use of that static image URL
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GWG Tantek, I just have WordPress doing the sizes.
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tantek 512x512 is sufficient for a photo icon/avatar for high res displays
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GWG I also rarely take pictures of myself
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tantek that's what my photo.jpg is. I also have a logo.jpg that is 128x128 which is good enough for small icons
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tantek GWG, get aaronpk to take a nice portrait shot of you with his camera at IWC :)
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GWG My first aaronpk goal is to be there for a usage of Teacup
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@NothingAgency Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662750869042008064)
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GWG How good a photographer is aaronpk?
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@ownCloud RT @NothingAgency: Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662751279517712384)
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tantek quite good
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kmahan indiewebcat.com ssl certificate expired! for some reason this is hilarious to me
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kmahan ssl is too hard for cats
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GWG I am just excited about tomorrow
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snarfed1 "why so insecure?" "meow."
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kmahan we need http://jsforcats.com/ for TLS
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gRegorLove confused-cat-at-keyboard.gif
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tantek what is kmahan?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "kmahan" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106F
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@GnuFreedom RT @NothingAgency: Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662752311383564288)
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kmahan heh
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@fkarlitschek RT @NothingAgency: Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662752447803351044)
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@aeroweb340 RT @NothingAgency: Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662752540417769473)
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aaronpk aww kitty!
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aaronpk ooh glad I checked, indiewebcamp.com cert expires on tuesday
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aaronpk i need this as an h-feed that I can subscribe to https://indieweb.org/certs.php
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kylewm Dora is the SSL canary
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Pronoun (+842) "Add silo examples" (view diff)
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tantek cool
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tantek guessing that should be lowercase
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aaronparecki.com moved /Pronoun to /pronoun "lowercase because not a proper noun"
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aaronpk jinx
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veganstraightedge.com edited /preferred_gender_pronoun () "(-644) Redirect to pronoun" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /preferred_gender_pronoun (+0) "Capitalization matters" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /pronoun (+160) "make definition actually meaningful, and why it relates to indieweb. indieweb examples before silo examples (always), move why not preferred to a FAQ" (view diff)
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tantek what is a pronoun?
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Loqi A pronoun is a word that people often use to refer to other people or objects instead of their names; on the indieweb you can express which pronouns should be used to refer to you https://indiewebcamp.com/Pronoun
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[shaners] Thanks t!
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tantek thanks for starting the page!
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[shaners] :the_horns:
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kevinmarks that's an improvemnt
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aaronpk nice
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@FemometerInc Something is coming; prepare yourself: http://www.femometer.com/ #OwnYourData #SomethingIsComing https://twitter.com/FemometerInc/status/662763663778910208/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/662763663778910208)
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aaronpk okay really, if your product hasn't launched yet, you really don't need to tweet "coming soon" every single day
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snarfed1 they're not a spammer, but they're also not indieweb. want to mark them spammer? or something similar?
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aaronpk i can just discreetly add them to the blacklist :)
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tantek or we just document them as vaporware
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tantek a logical outcome of excessive "coming soon" tweeting
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tantek and add them to a growing vaporware list
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tantek then when other people search for the product/company they see the vaporware summary and move along
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sparverius tantek: everyone said that about Glyvsh
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kylewm what's Glyvsh?
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kevinmarks how do you even say that?
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gRegorLove What is vaporware?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vaporware" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106G
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tantek vaporware is a product that is announced before its release, often with no particular expected release date, or perhaps nothing even partially developed, and is an [[anti-pattern]].
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loqi.me created /vaporware (+208) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-06/line/1446852429550 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /vaporware (+77) "see also, wp" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /vaporware (+369) "examples Femometer added discovered via #ownyourdata Tweets" (view diff)
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sparverius kylewm: glyvsh is the app that all residents of san francisco use
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tantek wat - never heard of it before
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