#indiewebcamp 2015-11-07

2015-11-07 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+255) "2015-10-02 slides for indieweb talk were posted" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (-5) "/* 2015 */ -br" (view diff)
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aaronpk Definitely got me
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aaronpk http://www.clickhole.com/article/20-things-no-one-tells-you-about-moving-san-franci-3456
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@kevinmarks 2 degrees of link banning? @xeni can't link to a post that names a company Facebook doesn't like http://boingboing.net/2015/11/06/facebook-is-censoring-links-to.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/662803897593925632)
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[aaronpk] Last time that happened it was a mistake I thought
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[aaronpk] I have nobody sitting in my row! \o/
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kevinmarks I suspect they just looked at the pyramid scheme aspect and put them on the spam list
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/MIT/Guest_List (+1650) "/* Possibly Attending (from Facebook) */" (view diff)
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[aaronpk] Made it to Seattle, next stop Boston!
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GWG In Boston, next stop, bed
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+68) "rooms" (view diff)
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@gnanet RT @NothingAgency: Thanks to @ownCloud we gained ownership of our data back! Better than ever with version 8.2! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/662871519320776705)
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GWG I keep thinking about doing Owncloud
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snarfed added more info to bridgy user pages, e.g. when it last sent you a wm, fetched your web page, found a syndication link, etc.
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snarfed feedback is welcome!
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snarfed especially on the ui. not my strong suit.
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[aaronpk] Good morning IndieWebCamp!
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[aaronpk] Heading in to Cambridge with Tantek now!
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rhiaro Morning [aaronpk]!
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ben_thatmustbeme Good morning
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ben_thatmustbeme On my way to the train station now
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rhiaro Hey ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme Huh. I think slack will notify him if you use @aaronpk
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rhiaro The stata centre doors won't be open until 8
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aaronpk The bakery doesn't open til 8 also
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ben_thatmustbeme That's about when I will be there
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rhiaro Let me know what coffeeshop you all end up at and I'll find you. Clover mass ave is open;
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aaronpk It really didn't look open
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ben_thatmustbeme Will be at South station at like 7:53
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rhiaro This one? https://www.google.com/maps/place/496+Massachusetts+Ave,+Cambridge,+MA+02139/@42.3635182,-71.108214,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x89e37754736576bb:0x17f8ddb26569b650
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rhiaro Not the one on Main
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aaronpk We'll be at the Main one in like 2 minutes
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rhiaro Mass Ave one is 24/7
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ben_thatmustbeme Incl
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ben_thatmustbeme Oops
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ben_thatmustbeme I'll let you know when I get to Boston
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rhiaro Although the Main one should open at 7
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aaronpk At Starbucks now
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aaronpk Broadway and Ames
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@rhiaro Looking for something to do in Cambridge this weekend, come learn/hack on personal social web stuff at #indiewebcamp http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/11/youre-looking (twitter.com/_/status/662965658070724608)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT (-9) "/* Venue */" (view diff)
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GWG How are the preparations going?
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@t Dear @MediaLab: we are in your campus, building the #future of independent #media. Join us @IndieWebCamp @MIT 32 G882. (ttk.me t4e62) (twitter.com/_/status/662996890699436033)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (-115) (view diff)
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tantek.com created /How_to (+235) "stub" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+272) "/* How to organize */" (view diff)
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@aaronpk RT @t: Dear @MediaLab: we are in your campus, building the #future of independent #media. Join us @IndieWebCamp @MIT 32 G882. (ttk.me t4e62) (twitter.com/_/status/663005173896187904)
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david.shanske.com created /Streaming_Kit (+1116) "Created page with "Streaming an IndieWebCamp requires some planning. Streaming can be anything from an extra laptop to a dedicated streamer. = Dedicated Streamer = {{aaronpk}} uses a Teradeck Vid..."" (view diff)
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@dissolve333 RT @t: Dear @MediaLab: we are in your campus, building the #future of independent #media. Join us @IndieWebCamp @MIT 32 G882. (ttk.me t4e62) (twitter.com/_/status/663008355120758784)
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rhiaro ping Kongaloosh
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Kongaloosh oh hello!
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Kongaloosh can I join in the fun in a little while?
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rhiaro Totally
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rhiaro Uh
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Kongaloosh will you have a talky or something up that I can just link to?
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rhiaro aaronpk, video link?
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ben_thatmustbeme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGBqaXQGrQM
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: we'll get 2 way up during discussions if you still are around then
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Kongaloosh Oooh! Cool
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aaronparecki.com edited /Streaming_Kit (+335) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com moved /Streaming_Kit to /streaming_kit
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: talky.io/iwc
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Kongaloosh cool, got it.
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aaronpk we saw you for a second
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Kongaloosh Excellent
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rhiaro come back kongaloosh
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Kongaloosh I'm currently in a cafe. I'll move somewhere else and rejoin.
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+65) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh unless you really want random music in the background.
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aaronpk its okay we muted you :)
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GWG aaronpk has better toys than I do.
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rhiaro DEMOS
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tantek Ben Roberts demo'd his contact collapser
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rhiaro aaronpk: Working on new site, not ready to demo but will anyway
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rhiaro ... Goal to launch without losing too many features of current site, and not add too much to it until after it's launched
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rhiaro ... But has cover photos!
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rhiaro ... Events and people
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rhiaro *discussion about use of random photos for people*
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rhiaro ... New site, everything is rendered more similarly
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rhiaro ... Same HTML with things added, but no types
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rhiaro ... Also instant loading (not scrolling)
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rhiaro ... URL changes so you keep your spot
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rhiaro ... Also started working on documentation
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rhiaro ... docs.p3k.io
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@TonyRocsU 📷 tantek: #IndieWebCamp #MIT, the album. #house #techno #coffee #nofilter (at Ray and Maria Stata... http://tonyroc.tumblr.com/post/132731786356/tantek-indiewebcamp-mit-the-album-house#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/663015420480389120)
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rhiaro ... Also don't have a web interface for posting, will always use external micropub clients
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rhiaro ... Changed how I'm handling and storing webmentions
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rhiaro ... Don't have a webmention endpoint on this site, use webmention.io
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rhiaro ... Added to webmention.io a webhook so that you can tell webmention.io to ping your site when a verified webmention is recieved
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rhiaro ... DOes all the parsing and ensmallens it to send to your site
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rhiaro ... Realised I should make that payload be the jf2 payload
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rhiaro wants this NOW ^
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@t https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xta1/t51.2885-15/e35/11417388_478101445709686_198079509_n.jpg https://instagram.com/p/9yeJFMA9Wv/ #IndieWebCamp @MIT, the album. #house #techno #coffee #nofilter (ttk.me t4e63) (twitter.com/_/status/663016236331040769)
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rhiaro ... Store the content in a mysql database
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rhiaro ... Also webmention.io got a new feature
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rhiaro ... Whenever it finds an author profile image it downloads the image and stashes it in s3 and rewrites the url in the payload it sends to you
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rhiaro ... everything is https and if you have old webmentions you're not going to end up with broken images
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@t https://instagram.com/p/9yeJFMA9Wv/ #IndieWebCamp @MIT, the album. #house #techno #coffee #nofilter (http://tantek.com/2015/311/t3/indiewebcamp-mit-the-album) https://twitter.com/t/status/663016908623511552/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/663016908623511552)
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ben_thatmustbeme presenting- rhiaro
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: I changed my page to there are sections now with icons for each
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ben_thatmustbeme checkins geneate a color stream on the side, 1 pixel = 1 minute
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ben_thatmustbeme scrolling down show locations of checkins lined up with their time in the graph
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ben_thatmustbeme vague checkins and most recent event showing on the site
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ben_thatmustbeme as well as next event coming up
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ben_thatmustbeme working on likes and reposts, wants to display the content
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ben_thatmustbeme wants to have weekly summaries, things like "liked # things" "subscribed to # of people"
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ben_thatmustbeme etc
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ben_thatmustbeme may work on indieauth login on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme presenting next - tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: my site is tantek.com and in the past year i got basic photo posts working
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ben_thatmustbeme ... min viable photo posts
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ben_thatmustbeme ... last week i started using brid.gy publish to publish them to twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme shows a photo post from his site and shows "view on twitter" link from the post
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ben_thatmustbeme twitter copy includes the original link from silo so its a larger view then twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme also has copy on facebook, from bridgy publish
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ben_thatmustbeme most recently got some design tweeking on like, repost, and reply icons
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ben_thatmustbeme syndication links align and look good now as well
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ben_thatmustbeme would like to get the mobile presentation better as well
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: this is where the indieweb is nice, it lets us pick the best design and use it for ourselves
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ben_thatmustbeme for types "if its a note and the very first thing is a photo, its a photo post"
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ben_thatmustbeme presenting - GWG
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG: david.shanske.com his site
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ben_thatmustbeme show his testing site
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ben_thatmustbeme was testing to support teacup app
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ben_thatmustbeme "somebody ate a post" still has some fixes to do
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ben_thatmustbeme after "SOMEONE" (points at tantek) commented that there are too many post kinds to choose from so there is options now to enable or disable types
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@rhiaro Things I'm in the middle of doing / have branches for [...] and might work on this weekend #indiewebcamp http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/11/site-things-im (twitter.com/_/status/663021078659354624)
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ben_thatmustbeme includes some types he doesn't use like "wish" or "played a game"
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ben_thatmustbeme cannot write a post UI for every possible instance, it just supports more micropub functionality
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ben_thatmustbeme some minor improvements to location
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ben_thatmustbeme needs to post more, but who doesn't
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ben_thatmustbeme wants to figure out push notifications
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rhiaro hey kongaloosh come back and demo your site
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Kongaloosh okay
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GWG aaronpk approaches the board
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GWG He leans in for the pitch
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GWG aaronpk is contemplating an h-trip
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GWG aaronpk is proposing new top level objects
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GWG He asks Why?
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: I am sitting in the background
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Kongaloosh but cannot hear v. much
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GWG Is this a post type thing which he is trying to avoid?
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: I think the youtube stream will be better
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rhiaro you could open both?
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Kongaloosh super duper background noise
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Kongaloosh I can vaguely hear a rhiaro
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GWG Kongaloosh: There is more than one rhiaro?
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Kongaloosh GWG: well, given how much she gets done, I presume so.
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: shh you
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GWG Kongaloosh: I'm equally impressed. I need her to come down to NYC and help me recruit HWC candidates
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aaronpk background noise from which one?
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GWG Home Run?
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: I'm off talky and casting it instead
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: okay, want to demo?
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Kongaloosh I am trying
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Kongaloosh to figure out how to do it
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Kongaloosh I'm lagging
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rhiaro you can screenshare on talky
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aaronpk we can put your talky up on the big screen here
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Kongaloosh okay, talky is working
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Kongaloosh I'm sitting in the background
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Kongaloosh I should check to make sure my site is kind of working
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Loqi I agree
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ben_thatmustbeme we should just list Loqi as a remote participant on every IWC
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aaronpk ha
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Loqi definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi agrees
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aaronpk Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 375 karma
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[jonnybarnes] hows the MIT camp going?
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GWG You should stop by
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KitB fwiw I seem to be having difficulty watching the youtube stream even on 144p
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@aaronpk @rhiaro that is a long list! I vote for: "Make various feeds discoverable" and IndieAuth (twitter.com/_/status/663027306512838656)
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Loqi it is probable
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Loqi KitB: rhiaro left you a message 3 weeks, 5 days ago: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439806081176
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: is there anything that I should talk about?
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aaronpk i think the wifi here is struggling
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: whatever you want... your hopes and dreams... and what you've done since IWC Edi
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aaronpk i can try to scale it down a notch
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Kongaloosh I get a lot of background noise on the talkyh
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@mraz_sic @bcdady @halovast @ConsenSysLLC checkout @PowerMyData it's going crowdfunded soon built on #ethereum #OwnYourData & #MonitizeAnonmously (twitter.com/_/status/663027943908634624)
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Kongaloosh yeah, so right now I'm mostly hearing buzzing sounds
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Kongaloosh and some rhiaro
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: what's wrong with your mic?
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rhiaro We should be able to hear you on our end
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rhiaro :D
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Loqi yea
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rhiaro Kongaloosh demos!
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: Undergrad at Edinburgh, introduced to IWC this summer
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rhiaro ... Background in ML and robotics, not much experience in web dev
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: your audio is cutting out
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rhiaro I think your scrolling is messing with it
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rhiaro go sloooowwwwer
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rhiaro ... something something wiki
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rhiaro ... primary interest was keeping track of pho...
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rhiaro hold up kongaloosh
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rhiaro we can't hear you
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rhiaro breaking up
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rhiaro aaronpk is working on it
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rhiaro (or at least, he's standing by the laptop)
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rhiaro kongaloosh, come back now?
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Kongaloosh I have a feeling the connection's gone flakey
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aaronpk we can seeee you
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rhiaro I think the screensharing is messing with the connection
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rhiaro kongaloosh.com
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rhiaro you need to close yours
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GWG Close the screen
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rhiaro so you stop breaking up
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Kongaloosh I can't hear you guys
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Kongaloosh can you hear me?
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rhiaro not currently
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rhiaro close your screenshare!
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Kongaloosh am I still breaking up?
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ben_thatmustbeme much better
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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Kongaloosh is everything okay
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ben_thatmustbeme url?
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rhiaro kongaloosh.com
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[snarfed] talky.io/iwc
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[snarfed] ah heh nm
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tantek Kongaloosh: one of the things I got working recently are webmentions, and in-reply-tos
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rhiaro KitB: if you appear on camera you can increase the Edinburgh count :)
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rhiaro Is moredhel there too..?
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KitB no
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KitB he's gone out
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Kongaloosh http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/10/1/yeah-man-na-telecoms-are-basically-highway-robbery
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GWG And then there were 3
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KitB say what?
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neanias My mic isn't working apparently
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Kongaloosh I can't hear what's being said so well
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: everyone is just discussing how fun it is to have Edinburgh here :)
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tantek THIS: "Making it more difficult for people to call me is a feature, not a bug."
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Kongaloosh AHAHAHHAHAAH
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aaronpk Kongaloosh: wants to work on hosting photos to reduce dependency on third party services
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@rianmurnen RT @t: Dear @MediaLab: we are in your campus, building the #future of independent #media. Join us @IndieWebCamp @MIT 32 G882. (ttk.me t4e62) (twitter.com/_/status/663031521788346368)
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ben_thatmustbeme Kongaloosh: i have some odd slight left/right scroll on that link
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Kongaloosh ben_thatmustbeme: yeah, I'm trying to figure that out
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Kongaloosh it's a bug on the whole of my site :S
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rhiaro neanias: want to demo anything?
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Kongaloosh I've been told it's a bootstrap thing, but I haven't found the cause
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neanias rhiaro: haven't anything to demo
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neanias Except my shiny, shiny shoes
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rhiaro neanias: do you have a site?
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Kongaloosh neanias: quick, hack!
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neanias No
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neanias Well
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neanias All it says is 'Yo'
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rhiaro neanias: this weekend is a good time to get one!
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rhiaro oh, cool
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rhiaro that's a start
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Kongaloosh rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 180 karma
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neanias No can do
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rhiaro kongaloosh: you have anything else to show/say?
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neanias Remembrance Sunday tomorrow
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rhiaro neanias: today you should set up relmeauth so you can sign into the indiewebcamp wiki https://indiewebcamp.com and add yourself as a remote participant for today
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rhiaro takes 2 mins :)
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Kongaloosh it's not the 11th yet, is it?
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neanias Doesn't detract from it being Remembrance Sunday
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neanias rhiaro: After I've finished bulling my shoes
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GWG What is Remembrance Sunday?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Remembrance Sunday" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106H
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: added that discussion session idea to the whiteboard!
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tantek Kongaloosh, have you seen / what do you think of http://indiewebcamp.com/generations ?
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tantek (aside, great to put a face & voice with the IRC handle!0
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Kongaloosh let me check it out!
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rhiaro Anyone else have session topics for discussion today?
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Kongaloosh tantek: oh that's neat
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neanias Hot damn, those are shiny
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neanias Right
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Kongaloosh Ahahah, the generational inertia was one of the points that I was going to bring up, tantek
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neanias What is relmeauth?
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Loqi relmeauth is an open source PHP library implementation of the RelMeAuth protocol https://indiewebcamp.com/relmeauth
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rhiaro what is indieauth?
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neanias Yuck, PHP
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Loqi IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites — it's like OpenID, but works with services you likely already use, and is much easier to setup https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth
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rhiaro neanias: you don't need to write any php
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neanias Oh, thank God
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rhiaro just html
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neanias That I can do
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neanias Kind of
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Kongaloosh neanias: I thought you were webby?
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neanias Backend
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Kongaloosh ahhhhhh
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neanias cannot into perdy designs
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neanias can into MVC
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neanias Well, the M and C bits anyway
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Kongaloosh neanias: bootstrap it
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neanias Should probably do that
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neanias First I need to think of something to put on my site
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, neanias, KitB: you have to stick around until sandro gets here, 15-30 mins
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neanias ARGGH
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neanias So noisy
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rhiaro neanias: infoz http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/06/iwc-edi
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neanias Christ almighty, my ears
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rhiaro (screenshots for relmeauth setup)
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Kongaloosh neanias++
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Loqi neanias has 1 karma
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KitB I didn't even have my headphones on and it hurt
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rhiaro wonders who Kongaloosh and KitB are talking to - is it moredhel?
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Kongaloosh yup
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rhiaro .. if so get him on camera!
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KitB it is, yes
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rhiaro Edinburgh can outnumber MIT!
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Kongaloosh we're getting him
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rhiaro you all have to be in the photo
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rhiaro we're just scheduling sessions
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rhiaro Edinburgh, do you want to vote for sessions?
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rhiaro we have:
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rhiaro 1. Where/how to store data for different types of posts
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rhiaro 2. Barriers to entry for the community
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aaronpk http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/mit
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rhiaro 3. JF2 (simple mf2 json serialization)
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rhiaro 4. Notifications clustering
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rhiaro 5. Mobile post presentation
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Kongaloosh OOOOH
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Kongaloosh clustering
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rhiaro you get three votes
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neanias tigo: todo?
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rhiaro pick your top 3
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neanias Oops
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neanias Wrong room
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, moredhel, KitB, neanias: give me 3 numbers please!
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Kongaloosh I vote for 4,2,1
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neanias Errr
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neanias 3, 1, 4
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KitB abstains
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snarfed 4!
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neanias What is JF2?
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Loqi jf2 is a working prototype of a simpler JSON serialization of Microformats https://indiewebcamp.com/jf2
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neanias K
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rhiaro moredhel?
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snarfed (prior art for 4: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-123388057 and below )
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Kongaloosh well
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rhiaro snarfed: get on talky!
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KitB the youtube stream straight up doesn't seem to work
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: we oculdn't watch youtube stream
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Kongaloosh supa lag
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[snarfed] heh wish i could, mostly out of pocket this weekend. wish i was there!
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Kongaloosh neanias: looks super concerned about life
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neanias Looking at my server
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neanias Something new on my prompt
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Kongaloosh I often make that face when looking at my server
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neanias Bit concerned
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Kongaloosh whomever bought their daughters domains is cool
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Kongaloosh my parents did that when I was born
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snarfed :P http://brookebarrett.org/
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neanias Huh
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neanias For realz, Kongaloosh ?
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Kongaloosh yup
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Kongaloosh neanias: alexkearney.com was registered in the 90s
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neanias Wow
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[snarfed] Kongaloosh++
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Loqi Kongaloosh has 5 karma
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rhiaro wow kongaloosh, your parents are cool
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Kongaloosh yup. Neither of them are computer scientists, yet both of them should be : /
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neanias Wait, Amy, where are you?
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neanias Oh, hey, it's KitB
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rhiaro neanias: in the room in Cambridge
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neanias I thought you were in America?
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rhiaro is getting sleepy
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rhiaro neanias: Cambridge, Mass
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neanias Cheating
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Kongaloosh neanias++
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Kongaloosh can you see us
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Kongaloosh because we can't see you
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aaronpk we can see you yes
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neanias I'm with you Kongaloosh
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Kongaloosh yeah
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Kongaloosh no seeing
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neanias I see KitB & moredhel's flat
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KitB so we just can't see you
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rhiaro it's also rhiaro's flat
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KitB for whatever reason
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rhiaro pines
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neanias Sorry, rhiaro
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aaronpk http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/notifications
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neanias 2xKongaloosh
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rhiaro 30 minutes until lunch
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 11/7 9:37am (#5738)
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rhiaro thanks Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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neanias That reminds me
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neanias I'm hungry
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neanias Might pop to Sainsbury's
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rhiaro s/lunch/end of notifications session
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rhiaro TOPIC: notifications clustering and presentation
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, KitB: you're echoing us
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rhiaro I guess we can mute you
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tantek what is notification overload?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "notification overload" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106J
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KitB wha
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KitB We should be muted
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rhiaro We can definitely hear you
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rhiaro k thanks
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Loqi yea
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tantek notification overload is /notification#Too_Many_Notifications
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loqi.me created /notification_overload (+48) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446916164339 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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rhiaro aaronpk: Lowest common denominator for mentions is text
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rhiaro s/mentions/notifications
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: aaronpk: Lowest common denominator for notifications is text
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rhiaro ... webmention.io clusters because of flooding
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GWG aaronpk is discussion clustering
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rhiaro ... in irc
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rhiaro ... when a notification is received it starts a timer, notifications coming in are added to timer and timer is extended for x amount of time
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Kongaloosh it's interesting, most people check their notifications within a few minutes of waking up
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rhiaro ... if no new webmentions are recieved by the time the timer goes off, it's a cluster, text is created and whole cluster is sent
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[snarfed] yeah this was subtle and nontrivial to design
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rhiaro ... only similarly typed notifications are clustered
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rhiaro ... that can be combined into a single sentance
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Kongaloosh and the number of times people check their phones during the day is astronomically high
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neanias Kongaloosh: one of the first things I do, to be honest
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Kongaloosh partially by design
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rhiaro ... you want to cluster when one post links to multiple things
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GWG Notifications are by author or by type, but not both.
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rhiaro ... eg. one post links to many wiki pages
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tantek aaronpk: you do want to cluster by: source (permalink) of notification (e.g. one post links to many posts)
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[snarfed] we iterated on this for a while. gory details in https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-123388057
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rhiaro ... also multiple people respond to one post, like rsvps to an event
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tantek aaronpk: or multiple sources link to one of your posts
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Kongaloosh that's a good idea
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rhiaro GWG: how to decide who list first?
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rhiaro aaronpk: silos do it based on distance in social graph and amount of interactions. Obviously harder.
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[kevinmarks] Or one person likes /retweet several of your posts?
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aaronpk here's the thread where we were designing this https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39
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aaronpk here's a bunch of text design https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-127048277
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[snarfed] lol I've been posting that link here. hopefully the slack bridge is still working?
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rhiaro aaronpk: liked a post that linked to... happens all the time
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rhiaro ... a bridgy thing
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: also salmentions
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rhiaro ... bridgy sends a post to every link your tweet, which is different to salmentions
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rhiaro aaronpk: some of the notification text is till wrong, lots of edge cases
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rhiaro ... would like a test suite for this
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rhiaro sandro arrives!
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, KitB, moredhel, neanias: group photo time!
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neanias Hmm?
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KitB neanias: how far away do you live?
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neanias Marchmont
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neanias So not very far
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neanias Maybe 10-15 mins
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KitB clearly you should run over here
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KitB and join us for the photo
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neanias Give me an address and I'll head over
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neanias I don't know where you live..
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Kongaloosh neanias: I'm enjoying your dancing
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neanias All I know is near Sciennes
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neanias Who wouldn't
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neanias Kongaloosh: dat grin do
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neanias Such forced smiles
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rhiaro Thanks Edinbrah!
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KitB No problemo
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KitB audio is breaking up btw
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neanias :(
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rhiaro Anyone have any comments about social notifications?
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Kongaloosh I don't like notifications
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Kongaloosh but I like text clustering
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[snarfed] social (silo) notifications are relevant to my interests!
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aaronpk oops sorry [snarfed] I wasn't seeing those cause i was standing up by the whiteboard
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[snarfed] np!
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rhiaro tantek: if you think about notifications for every type of post you have, it forces you to think about text-first design
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rhiaro ... push notifications are just one type, you might also have a page of them
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rhiaro sandro: any need for standardisation / interop?
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rhiaro tantek: more like design conventions
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rhiaro ... what's a good design people can copy?
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rhiaro aaronpk: *recaps notification text / clustering brainstorming*
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tantek I did my "like" post presentation brainstorming from a notification-first perspective even though I don't have notifications as a feature on my site: https://indiewebcamp.com/like#notification_first_design
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david.shanske.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+91) "/* Before */" (view diff)
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Loqi lunch
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rhiaro Preferences for notification clustering are going to vary per person and context
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rhiaro aaronpk: want replies immeditely
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[kevinmarks] turns tweets into notifications on android
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rhiaro sandro: want to know sooner if something surprising is happening, like 300 people share a post in 2 minutes, don't want to wait 5
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[kevinmarks] When I show people this they tend to hate it
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rhiaro sandro: some posts I'm nervous about and want to know everything that happens straight away, some posts I don't care about
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rhiaro ... No good solution for everyone
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rhiaro aaronpk: but still a lot of text design in common regardless of timing
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rhiaro sandro: and having terminology about this, so users can set their preferences
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david.shanske.com edited /notification (+1580) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /notification (+32) "/* Design Options */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /notification (-18) "/* Design Options */ shorter headings" (view diff)
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rhiaro tantek: designing for notifications first makes it easier to figure out overall design of a post on the site
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rhiaro sandro: ways to do push notifications to phone?
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rhiaro aaronpk: a few ways. I use Prowl
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rhiaro GWG: I use pushover
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: chrome's push api
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rhiaro aaronpk: chrome api persist across reboots?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: I think so
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rhiaro ... it's a webworker, you can close the tab
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rhiaro sandro: ...how do you turn it off?
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: there are ways to disable webworkers, but you can go back to the site to disallow it
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rhiaro GWG: the prompt only recently came to mobile
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rhiaro tantek: a month ago shipped in firefox for android too
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rhiaro notes to check this out ^
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: can also tell chrome mobile and browser are me, so i can dismiss on one and it is dismissed on the other
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rhiaro aaronpk: safari desktop recently added support for apple's push notifications
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, KitB, moredhel, neanias: Since you're all going to be on one site you can add Edinburgh as a co-located IWC
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rhiaro also we're going for lunch now
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rhiaro Hopefully see you later
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: Hope you're back for barriers to entry conversation
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rhiaro This'll be way more fun than whatever else you were planning for this evening
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@whichlight @t @MIT where is everyone? #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/whichlight/status/663053402725728257/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/663053402725728257)
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@aaronpk @whichlight @t @MIT #indiewebcamp we went out for lunch! We're meeting at the Cambridge Center Roof Garden. (twitter.com/_/status/663057925632462848)
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@kevinmarks One #indieweb answer in 3 https://twitter.com/stephanierieger/status/663062114471313408 (twitter.com/_/status/663072341853761536)
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@techlifeweb RT @kevinmarks: One #indieweb answer in 3 https://twitter.com/stephanierieger/status/663062114471313408 (twitter.com/_/status/663072519889403904)
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rhiaro Resuming IWC MIT post-lunch
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rhiaro a drone flies past the window, naturally
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, KitB, moredhel, neanias, still awake?
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rhiaro Kongaloosh, we'll do your barriers to entry session before you sleep if you want?
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neanias It's only 20 past7
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rhiaro oh okay
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rhiaro cool
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rhiaro I dunno
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neanias You need some sort sort of timezone bot
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rhiaro Two more people have arrived!
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rhiaro talky setup will be back shortly
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rhiaro talky.io/iwc
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rhiaro neanias, Kongaloosh, KitB, moredhel, tbrb
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aaronpk we should have much better sound there now!
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Loqi +1
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rhiaro TOPIC: how to store different post types
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rhiaro aaronpk: My problem is I have posts on my site in little rectangles, some are text, some are events, some are bike rides
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rhiaro ... some are people
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rhiaro ... right now I have h-entry, h-event and h-card as top level posts
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rhiaro ... *lists properties for each*
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rhiaro ... With my new site, storing things as microformats objects internally
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rhiaro ... for things like bike rides, want to collapse properties into a trip object
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rhiaro ... is that part of the h-entry or a top level trip object
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rhiaro ... do I store it this way? Do I present it this way? How to fall back if you don't know the vocabulary?
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rhiaro ... Can see arguements for both sides.
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rhiaro sandro: a trip is kind of an event
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rhiaro ... book? purchase? item to sell?
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rhiaro aaronpk: decision so far was that h-entries can have complex objects as properties
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rhiaro ... Difference between trip and route.. a trip is like an event, happened once. A route is just the path and maybe mode of transport
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rhiaro ... That route may happen more than once
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rhiaro GWG: equivalent of a venue?
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rhiaro aaronpk: yes
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rhiaro ... If a route is its own object it can have its own url
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rhiaro ... trip then references that
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rhiaro ... Is also how I'll do checkins
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rhiaro ... That's why I started thinking about this
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rhiaro fails at minuting
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rhiaro *more discussion*
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rhiaro *something about summary being usefl for fallback text for consumers who don't understand specific properties*
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rhiaro tantek: does it make sense for what you think as an entry to contain more than one of the new thing
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rhiaro ... then you may want that thing to be an array of objects inside an entry
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rhiaro ... and therefore start out as a property with a nested object
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rhiaro ... If in practice you're almost always just publishing one, you can do both
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kevinmarks likes the name/summary/content tricotomy
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rhiaro ... h-card used to always have address as a substructure
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rhiaro ... we found people almost always published one address
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rhiaro ... so asking people do this extra heirarchy makes no sense fro usability
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rhiaro ... so we up-levelled all those properties
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rhiaro aaronpk: so you let h-card contain a street address property rather than requiring it to be inside h-adr
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rhiaro tantek: yes
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rhiaro ... derived from vcard
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rhiaro ... but left in hierarchical object
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rhiaro ... option
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rhiaro ... hierarchy is a way to cluster a set of properties
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rhiaro ... but flatter is more useable
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rhiaro Does the thing need its own URL or have its own name?
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rhiaro aaronpk: If I look at the trip example, I could give a name to my commute to work
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rhiaro ... I would say I biked from home to work this morning
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rhiaro ... If I'm designing notfication text and want a summary, it is convenient for the route to have its name be home to work
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rhiaro ... So I can generate text
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rhiaro ... Summary, not a name
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rhiaro ... The summary of the trip includes the name of the route in it
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rhiaro ... Which is why the route has its own name
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rhiaro tantek: what you're publishing right now are instances
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rhiaro ... Confront that problem when you have a route object, not just instances
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rhiaro aaronpk: I can ignore that problem for now, but it still indicates that the trip should be the top level thing
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rhiaro tantek: could be..
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rhiaro aaronpk: I should do it right now as its own top level thing, if I later want to give these routes names the structure is in place for that
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petermolnar good afternoon, iwc us
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rhiaro Anyone think of events that have different start and end locations?
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rhiaro Marathon
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ben_thatmustbeme good afternoon petermolnar
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rhiaro Loqi 5 minutes to next session
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rhiaro 5 minutes until next session
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 11/7 12:18pm (#5739)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+93) "/* Saturday, November 7, 2014 (Brainstorming) */" (view diff)
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Loqi next session
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petermolnar it would be nice if we could argue with Loqi by the way
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Loqi is done
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tantek what is a trip
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trip" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106K
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tantek what is a leg
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "leg" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106L
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tantek aaronpk: ^^^ those are good places to start, with a user-centric definition
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+58) "/* Saturday, November 7, 2014 (Brainstorming) */" (view diff)
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rhiaro Screenshots for relmeauth http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/06/iwc-edi
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aaronpk petermolnar: you can try arguing with Loqi, but he may not argue back
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petermolnar Loqi, can you argue?
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GWG I tried teaching Loqi expressions in other languages, which didn't work
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petermolnar how are you sure those are not bots?
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aaronpk petermolnar: are you listening to us?
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petermolnar yes
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk i doubt anyone would go through the trouble of scripting an oauth client to sign in to the wiki
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petermolnar 'kind of bot' could be real people, fake data
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aaronpk especially when they then don't go make spam wiki edits after
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petermolnar that's the strange part
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rhiaro TOPIC: Getting started with relmeauth
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petermolnar by the way, are the new domains for logins logged? we could auto-add them an alternate irc-people list as seen-people
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aaronpk i'm not comfortable publicizing those unless we make it way more obvious when signing in to the wiki
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petermolnar fair point
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petermolnar it's just the curiosity talking from me
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aaronpk definitely
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rhiaro TOPIC: also barrier to entry stuff
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petermolnar by the way, which is harder: getting a website or launching IRC? :)
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[snarfed] IRC lol
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[snarfed] it's easy to sign up for blogger, tumblr, or wordpress.com
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petermolnar I agree, hence the question :)
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[snarfed] and you can do indieauth and webmentions (via bridgy's blog support)
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[snarfed] yup agreed
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[snarfed] all three of those are probably less intimidating than irc
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petermolnar instead of blogger and tumblr and wordpress.com, shouldn't we kind of embrace withknown.com?
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aaronpk maybe we should stop saying IRC since there are now 3 ways to connect to this chat channel
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aaronpk IRC is just one of the pipes
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+44) "/* Saturday, November 7, 2014 (Brainstorming) */" (view diff)
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[snarfed] petermolnar: sure, known is preferred, but not an either or!
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petermolnar chat is also an archaic thing if it's not an app and if you're talking to random strangers :/
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rhiaro 35 minutes until next session
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[snarfed] getting and attaching a domain is a bit more work (on all four) but we've documented the steps pretty well on the wiki
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 11/7 1:15pm (#5740)
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[snarfed] aaronpk++ for IRC as pipes
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Loqi aaronpk has 999 karma
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[snarfed] silos as plumbing!
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petermolnar [snarfed] right, but if someone asks me where to get a personal website, I'd definitely point at known first instead of the others
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rhiaro (kongaloosh: we're talking about barriers to entry, it sort of naturally occurred)
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rhiaro what is a web standard?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "web standard" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106M
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tantek what is a standard?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "standard" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106N
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kevinmarks also silo.pub for micropub for wp, blogger, tumblr
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tantek A web standard is a technical specification that describes [[format]]s and/or [[protocol]]s (or extensions thereof) for the web that instructs implementations in how to code support for them in sufficient detail to interoperate, and in practice has several existing interoperable implementations.
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loqi.me created /web_standard (+321) "prompted by rhiaro https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446928985563 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kevinmarks nb known currently has free signup disabled as spambots were scripting it
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@UKStartupEvents RT @aaronpk: @whichlight @t @MIT #indiewebcamp we went out for lunch! We're meeting at the Cambridge Center Roof Garden. (twitter.com/_/status/663095379706138624)
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tantek !tell benwerd congrats on your success of becoming a big enough target for spammers to create scripts for!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[snarfed] sad
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GWG snarfed: Wonder if webmentions on WordPress will get there
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GWG snarfed: Before I forgot, would you have any ideas for a little project of mine?
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/semantic-notification
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[snarfed] GWG: cool!
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GWG It is my hack project
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[snarfed] notifs aren't really an itch for me, but go for it
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GWG snarfed: Just thought you might have ideas
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sandro what is the meaning of life?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/meaning_of_life
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tantek what is 42?
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Loqi The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything is … 42 https://indiewebcamp.com/42
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ben_thatmustbeme what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM https://indiewebcamp.com/love
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dannyid what is it to be alive?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "it to be alive" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106P
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dannyid what is rel=me auth?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel=me auth" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106Q
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dannyid what is relmeauth
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Loqi relmeauth is an open source PHP library implementation of the RelMeAuth protocol https://indiewebcamp.com/relmeauth
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petermolnar what is rel me?
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rhiaro what is RelMeAuth
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Loqi Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-me
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Loqi relmeauth is an open source PHP library implementation of the RelMeAuth protocol https://indiewebcamp.com/relmeauth
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rhiaro rel=me auth is RelMeAuth
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loqi.me created /rel=me_auth (+51) "prompted by dannyid https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446929531943 and dfn added by rhiaro" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronparecki.com edited /rel=me_auth (-29) "Redirected page to [[RelMeAuth]]" (view diff)
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GWG What is lunchtime?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "lunchtime" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106R
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GWG Lunchtime is an illusion
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loqi.me created /Lunchtime (+51) "prompted by GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446929617748 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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ben_thatmustbeme what is 2+2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2+2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106S
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tantek !calc 2+2
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GWG What is antidisestablishmentarianism?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "antidisestablishmentarianism" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106T
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[snarfed] playing chubby bunny with shrooms over here
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GWG snarfed: By the way, me doing notifications was your idea. You suggested SWAT0. It is a necessary component.
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[snarfed] oops, wrong window
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aaronpk lol!
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tantek what is wikify?
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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GWG snarfed: I was wondering what you were talking about
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[snarfed] that's my 1 year old :P meant for my wife
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[snarfed] hence why you don't see me in person often!
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ben_thatmustbeme what is chubby bunny with shrooms?
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[snarfed] lunchtime with a1 year old takes like an hour
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chubby bunny with shrooms" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106U
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[snarfed] heh
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loqi.me created /everything (+49) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /start_a_page (+63) "expand a page" (view diff)
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[snarfed] btw, if you post syndication links, your bridgy user page now has lots more details on when and how it's crawled your site for those
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[snarfed] (back to on topic :P)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is a trip?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trip" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106W
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ben_thatmustbeme a trip is a period of time of euphoria after you have taken drugs
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loqi.me created /trip (+90) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446930460167 and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk ^^
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tantek.com created /expand_a_page (+345) "stub with dfn, common sections, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what is expand a page?
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Loqi You can expand a page that someone has started by expanding the definition, adding one or more new sections, or add to an existing section https://indiewebcamp.com/expand_a_page
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tantek aaronpk: as requested ^^^ :)
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aaronpk :)
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rhiaro good synonyms for journey: adventure, expedition, jaunt, quest, sojourn
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Loqi next session
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Loqi Countdown set by rhiaro on 11/7/15 at 12:40pm
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ben_thatmustbeme what is cruelty?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cruelty" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106X
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rhiaro 45 minutes until next session
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 11/7 2:00pm (#5741)
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rhiaro emergency TOPIC: auth with twitter giving errors
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/MIT/Schedule (+18) "/* Saturday, November 7, 2014 (Brainstorming) */" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Take a look at @deanna's Tweet: https://twitter.com/deanna/status/663056151160852480?s=09
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@deanna Interesting immediate tension at #web10conference: persistent sites/info vs right to be forgotten. Feeling that persistence is privilege (twitter.com/_/status/663056151160852480)
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www.funwhilelost.com created /User:Www.funwhilelost.com (+321) "Adding my profile." (view diff)
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www.funwhilelost.com created /Solid (+408) "Created page with "Solid is a decentralized file system and protocol designed to power decentralized social applications and linked data. It primarily leverages existing technologies - like many e..."" (view diff)
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rhiaro *discussion of storing tags as urls rather than strings*
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[kevinmarks] It encourages creation of tag pages
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[kevinmarks] Hence rel=tag
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[kevinmarks] Drawback is that rel is now page scoped, so tagging h-entry in a feed is misparsed
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@petermolnar @deanna interesting question. If you #ownyourdata, do you also own the option (right) of removing/revoking that data? (twitter.com/_/status/663107396127059968)
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@deanna RT @petermolnar: @deanna interesting question. If you #ownyourdata, do you also own the option (right) of removing/revoking that data? (twitter.com/_/status/663107689875017728)
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tantek dannyid: were you able to sign-in and create your User: page?
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dannyid tantek: yep, finally got it
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dannyid I had cookies turned off :)
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tantek sweet! next step: https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself :)
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tantek Loqi, timer?
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tantek Loqi, what time is it?
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Loqi :)
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tantek what is a service provider?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "service provider" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106Y
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tantek what is an ISP?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ISP" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106Z
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tantek what is Comcast
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Loqi Comcast is a service provider that provides internet access to businesses and personal homes https://indiewebcamp.com/Comcast
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GWG What is Time Warner Cable?
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Loqi Time Warner Cable is a psuedo-monopolistic ISP that services large portion of the USA https://indiewebcamp.com/Time_Warner_Cable
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tantek what is an ISP?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ISP" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106_
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tantek ISP is an abbreviation for internet service provider, a service that provides internet access like [[Comast]] or [[Time Warner Cable]].
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loqi.me created /ISP (+162) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-07/line/1446933139806 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /ISP (+1) "typo" (view diff)
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Loqi next session
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Loqi Countdown set by rhiaro on 11/7/15 at 1:15pm
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+217) "/* FAQ */" (view diff)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: check out https://github.com/w3c-social/Social-Syntax-Brainstorming/wiki/jf2, I updated it based on what we were talking about
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tantek Instead of the discussion session on Mobile Presentation, I'd rather do that tomorrow (maybe as an active hack / iteration session) and for now work on https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#improve_photo_posts
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@benwerd I'm interested in feedback from the #indieweb and #opensource communities. Building an open source business: http://werd.io/2015/open-issues-lessons-learned-building-an-open-source-business (twitter.com/_/status/663133806828720128)
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@redlocal I'm interested in feedback from the #indieweb and #opensource communities. Building an open source business: … https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/663133806828720128 (twitter.com/_/status/663137246086864898)
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