#indiewebcamp 2015-11-09

2015-11-09 UTC
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: does <span href="..."> actually owrk?
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aaronpk
seems like you could change that to an <a> if you already know you have to put it in the href
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ben_thatmustbeme
hah, span href= well it works for the point of parsable mf2
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ben_thatmustbeme
but that is fixed
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ben_thatmustbeme
[shaners]: where is h-array
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ben_thatmustbeme
please file bug reports on github with a way for me to generate it
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aaronpk
i didn't realize the mf2 parsing spec is general enough to find the href attribute on the span! that's interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme
it just sees is u-url and grabs the href, doesn't care what tag it is
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ben_thatmustbeme
works for anything with href, video, audio, etc
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ben_thatmustbeme
well those use src
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ben_thatmustbeme
but you could i suppose
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[shaners]
ben_thatmustbeme: round tripping: mf2 -> jf2 -> mf2
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: this is already handy for testing what i'm adding to webmention.io
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aaronpk
although now i kind of want one that is aware of vocab and renders human-friendly versions of the page
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aaronpk
cause what i really want to know is am i providing enough info in this jf2 feed that someone can use it to display it on their site?
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: that shouldn't be too hard to do
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kylewm
heh, matt mullenweg didn't wait for OCSP to propagate before changing his cert on https://ma.tt/ ... I won't feel bad the next time I do that
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 59 minutes ago: is it possible to send a single webmention to Bridgy Publish to get it to publish to all the POSSE destinations (e.g. both FB & Twitter) you've linked to from your permalink? E.g. with 'target=http://brid.gy/publish' ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-08/line/1447007012870
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GWG
Evening all
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, i never accounted for having more than one type:
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aaronpk
oh yeah we were trying to avoid that with jf2
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ben_thatmustbeme
question is, what do we do if there are two
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aaronpk
are there any use cases for actually publishing more than one?
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ben_thatmustbeme
doesn't matter, there can be
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aaronpk
it does matter
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aaronpk
i was thinking about this today since i'm publishing h-events in my new top-level feed. if someone doesn't recognize how to render an h-event, i want them to do something sensible as a fallback
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ben_thatmustbeme
what do i do well you can say its invalid, but mf2 parser handles it, the question is, what do you do if someone has two
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ben_thatmustbeme
as its valid mf2
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aaronpk
one way to handle the fallback is to make my post both an h-event and h-entry, so that if they don't recognize h-event they'll see the h-entry
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aaronpk
but at that point i can just not specify h-entry and just put a name and content property on the h-event so that the consumer finds those properties ignoring the type
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aaronpk
so what i'm wondering is are there actually any real use cases for specifying more than one type?
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aaronpk
cause if not, jf2 can just use the first mf2 type
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ben_thatmustbeme
we are going at this from different sides, you are assuming it'd probably be better to pick known terms first though, like in this case
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aaronpk
how is that what i said?
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ben_thatmustbeme
woops,two thoughts there
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ben_thatmustbeme
didn't clear line
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ben_thatmustbeme
feeding baby at the same time
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/we are going at this from different sides, you are assuming//
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aaronpk
i'm not sure about that, since that essentially kills the ability to add new types
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aaronpk
well, kills the ability to add new types and still have a fallback
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ben_thatmustbeme
if you just pick first though that can be messy
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ben_thatmustbeme
does mf2 parser order them?
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aaronpk
i was assuming the mf2 parser returns them in the same order as the html
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aaronpk
but i haven't actually verified that now that i think about it
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[kevinmarks]
That is usually true for lists, but not dicts. PHP preserves dict creation order, python returns them in hash order, go randomises them so you don't accidentally rely on order
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aaronpk
but... we're talking about lists
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ben_thatmustbeme
probably depends on implementation
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: the only reason for two classes I can think of is fallback. If that's the case and we want to have only 1 classes we have to take the fallback option always
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aaronpk
adding a test suite to webmention.io now...
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aaronpk
this is likely what i will be working on during the plane flight back to portland tomorrow
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GWG
Have a nice flight
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aaronpk
thanks!
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snarfed
tests++
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Loqi
tests has 16 karma
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[shaners]
aaronpk++ just because
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GWG
snarfed: I'm getting there
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[shaners]
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 1 karma
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Loqi
aaronpk has 2 karma
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GWG
aaronpk: Did you reset?
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[shaners]
HA! Karma can’t go 4 digits?
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snarfed
his last ++ did say 1000
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aaronpk
it finally happened
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh... now the question is
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Loqi
aaronpk has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh yeah, no doubling
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GWG
Continuing my Indieweb work.
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ben_thatmustbeme
what are you working on tonight
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on tonight" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106i
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ben_thatmustbeme
just about to head to bed myself
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: After I finished notifications, I was working on storing mf2 for sites I am reacting to
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GWG
I need to figure out how to clean up my storage and display system.
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ben_thatmustbeme
you got push notifications working?
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Yes. Now much more useful.
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GWG
My issue now is mf2 storage and display in WordPress
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, working in wordpress can certainly be limiting i'm sure
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ben_thatmustbeme
though i am like passing out right now
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ben_thatmustbeme
so i'm headed to bed
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Night
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asheesh
(huh, my irssi window here seems to suggest I was notified, but I don't see how, so if anyone needs to ping me, please ping me again)
lukebrooker, Calli, cweiske, sanduhrs, nitot, elima_, detsk, loic_m, petermolnar, ttepasse, KartikPrabhu1, j12t, glennjones, acegiak, elima, ben_thatmustbeme, friedcell, melvster, adactio, fkooman, tantek, tvn, tvn_ and [aaronpk] joined the channel
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[aaronpk]
Goodbye Boston! It was fun!
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ben_thatmustbeme
waves to [aaronpk] on behalf of Boston
ttepasse, nitot, yakker, tantek, melvster, tantek-ipod, j12t, elima and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek]
Anyone seen rhiaro?
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rhiaro
hey tantek
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rhiaro
I left you a message in indiechat
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rhiaro
I looked for you in Flour
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rhiaro
I'm now in a meeting until 9 or 9.30 in building 32
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rhiaro
but I can find you to give you a key afterwards
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@jgmac1106
@aaronpk @whaity I back up all my tweets to Google Sheets, and publish conversations I want to archive on my @withknown site. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/663720395418284033)
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@jgmac1106
@tinokremer @leolaporte Because they are a paying sponsor. He did give @withknown a full episode of TWIG at launch. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/663751362237366273)
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@jgmac1106
@tinokremer Maybe a community based revue sharing #indieweb podcast network is needed to help support and promote tools like @withknown
(twitter.com/_/status/663751634787418112)
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@bluesteinwatch
RT @jgmac1106: @tinokremer @leolaporte Because they are a paying sponsor. He did give @withknown a full episode of TWIG at launch. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/663756182004219904)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, aaronpk was trying to figure if there is a need to support multiple types (multiple h-*) ever? whats the use case? the only one i could come up with is fall back. This came up since jf2 tries to use only one single type, and shaners is using class="h-entry h-as-note"
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GWG
I thought we solved aaronpk's problems
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GWG
I have to figure out what I want to do with event types
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GWG
I don't implement them currently.
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[shaners]
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm moving away from h-as-* classes. I only ever used it for type specific styles. And no one else ever adopted it either.
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GWG
Pfefferle put h-as into the WordPress plugins
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[aaronpk]
Back on the west coast woo!
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[snarfed]
shaners: bridgy/granary have also used h-as-* forever
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[snarfed]
but kylewm is gradually eradicating then
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GWG
Back in NYC.
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GWG
Pfefferle seems against removing them
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, wonder the reasoning on that
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ben_thatmustbeme
as i understand it was an activity streams thing, and its been removed from the current as2 spec
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KartikPrabhu
it was mostly tantek using them to conform to activity streams or something. But those never were in mf2
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@loschi
#indieweb Vortrag von @LukasRosenstock auf #wmgi sehr inspirierend! Danke!
(twitter.com/_/status/663791269953601537)
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[shaners]
Snarfed kylwm hn. I did not know that others were using them. But I'm glad to hear they're going away. :grin:
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, activitystreams examples had them, they were never part of the spec
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[aaronpk]
The only thing I can think of for multiple types is to be able to fall back to something other than an h-entry
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[aaronpk]
But you'd still have to provide enough for an h-entry fallback anyway
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[aaronpk]
So it doesn't actually seem very useful
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tantek
right
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tantek
also, can't believe h-as-* is *still* floating around
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tantek
and getting recent incorporation into WP plugins?!?
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singpolyma
I still have my old <span class="verb">..</span> markup on my site ;)
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GWG
It wasn't recent
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ben_thatmustbeme
[aaronpk]: the end result is that i think it makes more sense to just pick known types out first, (prefer h-entry over h-blahblahblah)
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ben_thatmustbeme
if we are only providing one class we destroy fallback otherwise
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GWG
I had a WordPress Indieweb thought today
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ben_thatmustbeme
if its well established enough the producer can provide it as h-blahblahblah without fall back, and my implementation will do the same
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ben_thatmustbeme
really needs to think before he speaks, a lot of that is unclear
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GWG
Based on the way I designed Post Kinds, my usage of the post type matches h-entry
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GWG
Which means if I ever do another top level property it needs to be a different post type
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GWG
Petermolnar, does that make sense?
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petermolnar
hm, what, where?
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, aaronpk, tantek, i wonder if it makes sense to figure out what h-* item it should pick first if more than one of the known h-* classes are set
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petermolnar
reading back
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ben_thatmustbeme
start with more specific, ending on h-entry as its most generic, or something like that
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ben_thatmustbeme
not sure it matters as I can't think of instances where it makes sense to use more than one
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petermolnar
what is h-as-* ?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "h-as-* " yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106j
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GWG
I want to write a something on microformats to WordPress
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GWG
So is the post post type the equivalent of h-entry?
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GWG
Which would mean any other top level properties would need a custom post type
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petermolnar
I'm trying to code the decision algorithm for finding the post type based on that is set for a post instead of setting it manually, but yes, it probably would if they are not the same as you already have
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petermolnar
whereas post type could refer to both
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petermolnar
so I would not add another taxonomy
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petermolnar
or maybe as 'cache' or fallback
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petermolnar
but instead, depending on the content ( meta as well ) decide the post h-
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GWG
What is wrong with taxonomies?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "wrong with taxonomies" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/106k
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petermolnar
nothing, apart from one more box to tick
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petermolnar
and I'm lazy :)
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petermolnar
so if it's possible to apply the same logic as I myself would do by code, the code is better imho
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GWG
You can do that with a taxonomy and set it in the background
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petermolnar
sure, that's what I'm doing with the post type at the moment
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petermolnar
but I don't have to tick the box
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petermolnar
which is good
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@voxpelli
@simevidas @kevinmarks @Snarfed Easier to just use the ".webmention-error" class to style unloadable images in those cases instead
(twitter.com/_/status/663812279792754688)
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voxpelli
the new "Tracking Protection" of Firefox 42 is certainly interesting :P Hard coded black lists that blocks things even when not needed – yay!
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Loqi
yay!
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GWG
Why is a check in an h-entry and not an h-event?
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voxpelli
GWG: it represents an activity, not a happening
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voxpelli
and all activities are h-entries
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voxpelli
as far as I see it
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voxpelli
one can even check-in to an event, no?
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GWG
We were discussing this in regard to trips this weekend
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GWG
Someone had mentioned that they wanted to check out as well as checkin
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GWG
So that makes a check in something with a possibly defined start and end time
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GWG
Which sounds more like an event
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voxpelli
it could perhaps be represented as both?
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GWG
The microformats wiki defines h-entry as episodic or datestamped content
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voxpelli
like follow/unfollow which can both be represented as the activities of following and unfollowing (probably h-entries) and the actual relation state between A and B which would be rel-contact between h-cards
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kevinmarks
so, this weekend I learned that SVG text and web fonts are really annoying. http://www.kevinmarks.com/htmlversustex.html
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ben_thatmustbeme
kevinmarks: the dangers of the internet :P
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tantek
pops back in to see some post type plumbing discussions ;)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: not sure what you're getting at re: h-entry and fallbacks
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ben_thatmustbeme
so, if jf2 wants to only have 1 "type" (classes from mf2) and mf2's json format allows multiple h-* we need to select 1, we were trying to figure out the reason for every needing more than on in mf2, and really the only thing we can figure is that you provide h-entry as a fallback to h-mycustomthing
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ben_thatmustbeme
if my service to convert mf2 to jf2 provides h-mycustomthing, it breaks the desired fallback the mf2 author included
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sensiblemn
please head over to #knownchat if you want to help me figure out how to get known running in a subdirectory using nginx
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ben_thatmustbeme
but providing only the fallback option (in this case h-entry) it basically handicaps adoption of any new values
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ben_thatmustbeme
thus the issue
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sensiblemn
Loqi: you seem smart. can you come to #knownchat and help me?
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GWG
I am still contemplating h-events as making sense for activities as opposed to actions
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think its better to always provide the fallback though, the resulting jf2 is more likely to be parsed sanely
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ben_thatmustbeme
is that a little clearer tantek?
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voxpelli
GWG: if one wants the check-out to publicly show then it needs to be included in ones feed based on when one checks out – and an event would likely be included in ones feed when it is created
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: a little. in practice not a lot of people have been publishing multiple h-* types
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tantek
and in practice some of the more common cases like h-as-* have been largely abandoned
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: tantek: it's an interesting question though – should it be possible to use new types through some kind of progressive enhancement strategy?
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tantek
voxpelli: we have long thought so, e.g. "h-card h-person" or "h-card h-org"
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tantek
or "h-entry h-review"
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tantek
or "h-product h-listing"
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voxpelli
we had that problem with Activity Streams on Flattr – none of the existing types really suited us, but since Status.net was the only big deployed consumer we had to pick the least wrong type it supported
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voxpelli
and could not define a better type that eg. StatusNet could then later have adopted
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tantek
having to pick the "least wrong type" seems like a good summary critique of post type design assumptions
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snarfed
posttypes--
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Loqi
posttypes has -1 karma
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snarfed
inference++
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Loqi
inference has 2 karma
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: why not make type an array like category in the examples when there is more than one type?
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ben_thatmustbeme
"h-entry h-review" huh, so it makes sense to do both of those?
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tantek
that seems like a "simple" way of handling it
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tantek
and then anyone that actually cares about the type can go digging
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tantek
in practice I think consuming code will be written to handle properties not types
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ben_thatmustbeme
we had been trying to avoid that, simpler to consume if you know there is only one type
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voxpelli
+1 on array, in order of preference (because classes in HTML are ordered, right?)
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tantek
nah, simpler to consume if you ignore type and just look at properties
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: only simpler to consume initially, but since it makes progressive enhancement hard/impossible it will grow messy over time
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tantek
this is getting back to the problem of consuming-code design, where consuming code *thinks* it needs a type to do so something when in practice it actually needs to handle the presence/absence of properties
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ben_thatmustbeme
i disagree, as if you need a type, you end up having to figure out type from properties, which can be complex
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tantek
voxpelli: what ? no not-ordered.
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tantek
neither are rel values
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tantek
they are both unordered sets
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tantek
I always wonder the impression of ordered classes/rel values comes from - nowhere has anyone ever said that - thus it must be something about the eyntax perhaps?
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, aaronpk originally suggested just taking the first type, but "first" is actually random since its unordered
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tantek
posttypes--
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Loqi
posttypes has -2 karma
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voxpelli
tantek: hm, so it will always be up to the consumer then to pick which representation is the most fitting?
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tantek
voxpelli: rather, practical consumers will discover that no matter what "type" based code they write, they'll have to handle presence/absence of different properties
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[aaronpk]
You can't keep doing posttypes-- when it's built into the microformats spec lol
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tantek
so why not skip all the type-based code assumptions, and *only* implement presence/absence of different properties ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was thinking the same
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tantek
basically, developers aren't being lazy enough
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tantek
they're not being long term lazy enough in particular
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ben_thatmustbeme
"long term lazy" heh
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gRegorLove
longtermlazy++
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Loqi
longtermlazy has 1 karma
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voxpelli
+1, it would also show if there's some data that is now inferred from the type that should actually be explicitly stated on its own
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tantek
focusing on post types is a sign of inexperienced (like haven't actually built/shipped solutions that interop with a variety of other implementations) or short term thinking in terms of this kind of stuff
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[aaronpk]
So should I publish my contact info in an h-entry on my home page?
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tantek
frankly, I'm now myself running into confronting even my shortlink single character type codes
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voxpelli
[aaronpk]: in an h-typeless ;)
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tantek
since I'm clearly going down the path of my photo posts being at /t... and NOT at /p... as originally planned
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tantek
voxpelli: that's what h-item is for :P
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voxpelli
oh, handy!
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: for now for jf2, juss stick all the h-* object types into an array if more than one, just like category
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tantek
and then anyone that complains, challenge them to produce URLs to real world examples
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rhiaro
If you're consuming, and someone gives you a type, and you know what properties to expect with that type, and you even trust the data you're consuming, you're probably *still* going to check for them before doing anything with them anyway, right?
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voxpelli
wonders if any indie-reader would support consuming an h-item of h-item:s like an h-feed of h-entries
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tantek
lol: in practice this is always a false assumption: "you know what properties to expect with that type"
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singpolyma
for now I still distinguish between my "long form posts" and my "social stream activity", but otherwise I barely use types on my site
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rhiaro
so if you're always going to check the properties regardless, you might as well not pay attention to the type, so it might as well not be there
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tantek
distinguishing presentation based on properties is sensible, practical, and the approach many of us are shipping
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tantek
just no need for top level explicit typing
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rhiaro
however if you're super lazy or super trusting or have some kind of super generic consumed-data displaying thing, being given a type might be a useful shortcut. But most consuming code isn't going to be like that I suspect.
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tantek
rhiaro: yes to " you're probably *still* going to check for them before doing anything with them anyway"
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ben_thatmustbeme
#pointless arguement, types make sense for some, not for others
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tantek
that's exactly the point
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tantek
so why not just code that first
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voxpelli
I think the only non h-entry types I have are h-card and h-feed – hard to distinguish between a profile and an article if not using h-card on the profile i guess?
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: nah, they make sense in theory until you start interoperating with the wild world of public web publishing ;)
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[aaronpk]
If types really don't make sense then should the microformats spec stop using h-entry vs h-card vs others?
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singpolyma
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 118 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm with [aaronpk] on that one honestly
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tantek
aaronpk: good question, or rather, what are the use-cases that drive the use of separate h-card, h-entry, h-event etc.
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voxpelli
right now h-entry is used for what feels like 80% of the use cases anyway, the rest 18% being h-card and 2% being all of the rest
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tantek
like h2vx.com
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rhiaro
having types internally in my system helps me query stuff more easily (because I definitely trust and know what to expect from my own data), but I would probably ignore types coming from external sources and just deal with properties
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singpolyma
[aaronpk]: h-entry vs h-card improve authorability
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tantek
could we rebuild it and have it "try" to convert every h-*
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ben_thatmustbeme
h-card is very useful for representative h-card, or rather, looking for person represented by a url
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rhiaro
yeah so all my stuff on my site is h-entry and I've been meaning to add something into my mp endpoint that lets me specify a different mf type, but maybe I won't bother
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tantek
types as internal system cache based on property testing could make sense rhiaro
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ben_thatmustbeme
authorship discovery, whatever you want to call it
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ben_thatmustbeme
feels like it just started a big kerfuffle
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rhiaro
yeah, I've been thinking about adding types back in internally only
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singpolyma
ben_thatmustbeme: oh yeah, definitely that
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ben_thatmustbeme
also found an excuse to use kerfuffle
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: there's also a possible distinction between generic object types, and post types
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tantek
that is, while post types maybe fairly irrelevant
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tantek
it may be that top level object types have some use-cases
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tantek
(what microformats has h-* objects for)
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rhiaro
yeah especially h-card with name and h-entry with name
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tantek
(but also why we have so few h-* objects)
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ben_thatmustbeme
although i still contend the "note at a location" vs "checkin with text" are different things, but thats for my internal representation
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rhiaro
but even h-event might not be necessary because you can figure that out from start and end times existing
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tantek
people have over time often wanted to make up their own h-* objects, only because they didn't understand they could re-use an existing h-*
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tantek
rhiaro: events may only have a start time
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ben_thatmustbeme
h-feen is also very useful for feed discovery
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tantek
and maybe that's enough
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ben_thatmustbeme
knowing ahead of time without pulling a URL that something is a feed
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rhiaro
oh yeah, h-feed++
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: right, h-feed is an indication of publisher intent
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ben_thatmustbeme
and in practice (for social) thats really all i see people using (in IWC anyway)
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tantek
but then maybe we can put any h-* as children of an h-feed
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tantek
h-card has the use-case of more robust authorship discovery
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, h-event, though i could see arguements that h-event doesn't really have enough need to be its own top level object
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voxpelli
whatever can be expressed as something else than a type probably should be
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voxpelli
sometimes the type might be the easy solution, but expressing the same value as a property could also be possible
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voxpelli
not using types increases the composability of things
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rhiaro
I maintain that top level objects that are similar enough to other top level objects property-wise yet still need to be displayed differently are the only ones that should have types. I'm not sure how many of those there really are.
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voxpelli
it would be interesting to test and see if one could express them as an h-item through additional properties instead and if that would makes things more or less clear
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: i don't totally agree a note can't have a "location" as you can post a note about something, but again, this falls to your interpretation of some data, it does not work as a general rule for determining intent of the author of the data
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voxpelli
kevinmarks: did you see my tweet btw about possibility to add some CSS to "img.webmention-error" to make failed images look better on your site?
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: case is point "Rattlesnake (a place a few doors down from our office) is really sketchy, gave my co-worker food poisoning" I am not checking in, but i cite the location for others
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ben_thatmustbeme
i am specifically not checking in, because i am not there
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: h-event has the use-case currently of h2vx.com - that is, robust automatic .ics file generation (because calendar programs / sites subscribe to that)
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ben_thatmustbeme
can you determine that based on the properties though?
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tantek
unsure - haven't tried
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tantek
it maybe reasonable to keep going and make h-item the generic thing that you use when you have no need for a specific top level type
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tantek
the irony there is that then that naming lines up with RSS <item>
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: rhiaro: check-in could be done same way as bookmarking / replies etc though? Add an extra "u-in-reply-to"-style to the geo-tag? "p-check-in-at"?
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ben_thatmustbeme
whats the difference between item and entry any way?
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ben_thatmustbeme
just entry is supposed to be in a feed?
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tantek
what is an h-entry
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Loqi
h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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tantek
and on the microformats definition, episodic / datestamped content
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tantek
on a page without an h-feed, feed consuming code can imply an h-feed by the presence of h-entrys
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ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: p/u-check-in-at makes a bit more of sense to me
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tantek
on a page with an h-feed, feed consuming code can treat all children of the h-feed as part of it
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ben_thatmustbeme
more sense than trying to guess at intent
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tantek
voxpelli: how about checking existing examples of checkin markup that is published?
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: always good to check for examples in response to queries about "could be done"
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tantek
as in, "could be done?" should be replied with "how is it done currently?"
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ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: might be good to throw that in to a brain-storming
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tantek
brainstorms should consider existing practices
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: problem with that philosophy is that is discourages experimentation. "no one else is publishing, so its not needed", but no one is publishing it because there is no option for it
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voxpelli
tantek: only existing example of marking up whether a location is a checkin or not that I see while skimming through is "h-as-checkin" – and well, that's what started this discussion ;)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: hah that's /negative_reasoning
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ben_thatmustbeme
and given that its something i have often cited, and others have had to deliberate on (http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/checkins) i think its something that need experimentation
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snarfed.org
edited /checkin (+92) "/* Ryan Barrett */"
(view diff)
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tantek
needs *more* experimentation
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should say the problem is that you need to check existing, non-indieweb usage as well
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: that's not a problem, that's good practice :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, its somewhat incorrect to just say "look at /checkins#IndieWeb_Examples"
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rhiaro
I thought it was standard to check all usage not just indieweb?
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voxpelli
we're also lacking consumers, publishers we have plenty, but whether the publishes data is ambiguous might not truly surface until we have a wide variety of readers using that content
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ben_thatmustbeme
as thats just reinforcing current indieweb markup, not expressing good practice to look outside of indieweb
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: not at all! it's completely correct to say look at indieweb examples - no part of that excludes looking further ;)
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tantek
it's like, go look here first
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tantek
no one said where (not) to look second
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tantek
if anything we strongly encourage looking at silo examples of UX for example
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voxpelli
ideally the other indieweb examples would already have documented the research they based their work on in in the wiki I guess
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tantek
voxpelli: precisely!
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tantek
even if they lack their research, you can and should do better, set a better example for the next person that comes along and sees how/what they should do
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ben_thatmustbeme
however i doubt everyone does as much research as might be expected. I'll admit to just implementing what other Indieweb sites do.
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ben_thatmustbeme
this is especially true when any section has a "How_to_markup" section
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ben_thatmustbeme
rather claims that the research has already been done and some sort of collective decision has been made
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/ I'll admit to just/ I'll admit to sometimes just /
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snarfed
gRegorLove: fixed the bridgy publish you hit just now. try again?
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gRegorLove
Haha. I was just about to file an issue :)
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gRegorLove
Well, I still could if you want. The published logs show "No log found" for the errors.
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snarfed
meh logs are best effort
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snarfed
gRegorLove: ok, this time it's your turn for a fix. :P details in the response body
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gRegorLove
Bridgy publish link is there, not sure why it gave that error. I'll try again.
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gRegorLove
Oh, is this the no-www change recently?
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snarfed1
oh. drop the www from your link. just brid.gy.
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snarfed1
i'll make it accept both
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snarfed1
thought i already had
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gRegorLove
Huh. Yeah, it was accepting the www version for quite a while.
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gRegorLove
snarfed: Haha, changed it and now got the error "Couldn't find link to https://www.brid.gy/publish/twitter" (on a separate note)
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snarfed
heh, yeah. fix is almost out
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gRegorLove
I'm in ur bridgy breakin things
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snarfed
k fix is out
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gRegorLove
Despite having an HTML5 player, /Soundcloud apparently still requires Flash, at least on desktop. No audio and a notice "It looks like you have a Flash blocker browser setting or extension. Please enable Flash to hear this track."
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kevinmarks
yep, it's crap. you can switch browser signature to iOS
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gregorlove.com
edited /SoundCloud (+329) "/* Criticism */ Flash still required on desktop"
(view diff)
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GWG
So, now I have a problem.
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GWG
I thought I had a clear solution.
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GWG
All the event type posts could be grouped together, and all the entry type posts could be. Now I have to rethink.
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GWG
I may still do it that way, as it makes sense in terms of them not being in the main feed, but in a separate activity feed.
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gRegorLove
GWG: I think a feed of "everything" makes sense, and then separate feeds for each type. Perhaps an option to build hybrid feeds of only selected posts, too. That would give the most flexibility.
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snarfed
a la known
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GWG
gRegorLove: I have an existing system to build in though.
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gRegorLove
What's that?
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GWG
gRegorLove: WordPress
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gRegorLove
WordPress is super flexible for querying posts.
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snarfed
GWG: i think i've mentioned that you should look at https://wordpress.org/plugins/ultimate-category-excluder/ for this?
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snarfed
i use it to do exactly this
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GWG
snarfed: It isn't just that. If I build events as a custom post type in WordPress, I can create a Post UI specifically for activity posts. There's a functional reason.
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