#indiewebcamp 2015-11-29

2015-11-29 UTC
tantek and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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dhalgren hi!
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tantek welcome dhalgren !
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KartikPrabhu Loqi messages?
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dhalgren what do ppl here think about the solid project? https://github.com/solid/solid-spec . I was thinking about an approach compatible with both IndieWeb and this RDF-heavy stuff
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KartikPrabhu is not a big fan of RDF
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dhalgren like, a site on a personal domain for IndieWeb serializing/deserializing between microformats2 and turtle, based on examples of equivalences in the ActivityStream2 specs or something like that
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dhalgren and pushing turtle to some external LDP server
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KartikPrabhu do you use turtle on your site?
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dhalgren I'm only just designing it. All I've got now is a static site generator living on my dev machine.
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tantek dhalgren: could make an interesting experiment to explore compatibility of various approaches
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tantek I suppose it comes down to what your goals are with your personal site
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tantek dhalgren: do you have a personal domain to start with?
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dhalgren I'll be getting one from the state (since they give it for free), tied to personalID.
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dhalgren reminds me to check the required paperwork, sec
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tantek which "the state"?
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dhalgren croatia
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tantek that's fascinating
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tantek what is personalID?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "personalID" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1084
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dhalgren I mean my ID card
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tantek is your ID card called a specific name in Croatia?
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dhalgren "osobna iskaznica" translates to personal card
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dhalgren I think i just need my tax number, I'm just checking sec
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@muhhbot Die ganzen IndieWeb Plugins für macos. (twitter.com/_/status/670758551225311232)
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tantek dhalgren: What's the site that provides these domain names?
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dhalgren tantek: carnet, the academic internet network of croatia controls the .hr tld; found it https://www.dns.hr/portal/register/free-fromhr
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tantek what are short domains?
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Loqi short domains are commonly used on the IndieWeb for personal URL shortening, or clever domain hacks https://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains
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dhalgren hehe, I can do it right now. only its gotta be under my full name.
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tantek cool!
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dhalgren there it goes, damjan-novak.from.hr :)
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tantek dhalgren: neat - does that mean you now have to setup web hosting somewhere? e.g. github pages?
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tantek.com edited /short-domains (+426) "/* Domains */ add hr with info, example" (view diff)
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kevinmarks an academic network? Is this primarily for students and professors?
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dhalgren tantek: github was my intention for a static page, or I might go crazy with the free heroku instance if this serializer/deserializer stuff happens. Carnet offers some web hosting services too, so I could just go all "communist" as well :)
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dhalgren kevinmarks: most of their services are - like cheaper internet connectivity for studends/professors and the like. But they're also where all .hr domain are registered; so academic, business or personal
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tantek dhalgren: the nice thing about starting with github static pages is that you can later switch to deploying from github to Heroku etc. as a transition.
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kevinmarks is there enough backend support to run Known?
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kevinmarks my site is a heroku instance because in theory I was going to write some backend code, but in practice it could just be a static directory
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dhalgren I gotta check the pdf with terms of services; but I think (and really don't hold me for this) they offer just wordpress hosting.
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+39) "starts at 9, Mozilla is obv a sponsor of venue & food" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: check out the "Map data not yet available" image preview that FB picked up from the link to your indie event! https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10101993006211373
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aaronpk oops! I think that's because I forgot to put the lat/lng of mozilla in the event
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aaronpk fixed! now there is a map
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+311) "Adjacent Events" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+70) "see also the next day IWC SF" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (-41) "/* Participating */ never ended up using Session Proposals" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+750) "stub a schedule" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2015/SF/Schedule (+1071) "copy from /2015/MIT and update, minimize to one day" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+0) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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tantek !tell kylewm I'm going to be pretty busy with a lot of the organization/logistics of the Social Web WG f2f - could you help out with wiki page tweaks & subpages for https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/ ? E.g. clone from /2015/MIT versions or earlier: /2015/SF/Introductions and /2015/SF/demos Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com created /2015/SF/ (+21) "r" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk heh we should explore how to de-dup RSPVs :) https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/12/01/1/socialwg
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk yeah
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 28 minutes ago: heh we should explore how to de-dup RSPVs :) https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/12/01/1/socialwg http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-28/line/1448767103754
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aaronpk ill have way better de dupe handling on my new site
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aaronpk the way I store incoming webmentions is too hard to do that right now
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kylewm Loqi mensajes?
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 7 minutes ago: I think this would make an interesting discussion point to bring up on Wednesday https://kylewm.com/2015/11/silo-pub-as-a-generic-micropub-to-silo-adapter - I've added it to: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club#Topics http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-28/line/1448739648940
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 32 minutes ago: I'm going to be pretty busy with a lot of the organization/logistics of the Social Web WG f2f - could you help out with wiki page tweaks & subpages for https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/ ? E.g. clone from /2015/MIT versions or earlier: /2015/SF/Introductions and /2015/SF/demos Thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-28/line/1448766966915
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kylewm tantek: yes more than happy to fix up the wiki stuff
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dhalgren are there any console h-feed readers? or ideally an emacs pkg?
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kylewm no not that I'm aware of dhalgren
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dhalgren thx
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kylewm.com created /2015/SF/Introductions (+1447) "Clone /2015/Cambridge/Introductions and try to modify 2 day to 1 day" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF (+361) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com created /2015/SF/Demos (+97) "Created page with "IndieWebCamp SF 2015 Demos These will be transcribed in IRC or an etherpad and transferred here!"" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF (-26) "/* Participating */ remove duplicated Demos page" (view diff)
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@bengo bengo.is back! thanks to @OpenStack Magnum & #carina http://bengo.is/notes/20151129-bengo-is-back #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/670875211512680448)
KevinMarks__, XgF, tbrb, yakker, brianloveswords, sandro, limiting-factor, nitot, KevinMarks_, KartikPrabhu, loic_m, j12t, dhalgren`, catsup, nitot_ and Tino joined the channel
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tinokremer.nl edited /Facebook (+314) "/* Articles */" (view diff)
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@tinokremer #Facebook doesn't allow #Flipboard's to read articles shared in your newsfeed by friends. #indieweb https://about.flipboard.com/inside-flipboard/what-you-need-to-know-about-facebook-changes-on-flipboard/ (twitter.com/_/status/670919635894673408)
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dhalgren` reading some old irc logs; apparently ppl here think stand-alone feed readers are just a legacy dead-end?
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dhalgren` idk, my recent experience has been quite the opposite; migrating from a silo to just a feed reader was quite liberating, and precisely because it discouraged interaction. I could go through a bunch of feeds over coffee and waste way way less time on rather useless online discussions
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dhalgren` though I could see why they'd be a dead end both technologically and from a perspective of mass appeal...
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KartikPrabhu dhalgren`: it depends on your use-case
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dhalgren` yy, sure
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dhalgren` wait, I'm apparently reading a huge old irc log of a discussion you participated in, KartikPrabhu :) -- on trust-less micropub instead of webactions/indie-config stuff. did ppl get that running? are there examples of the UI? I'm wondering if the extra redirect to confirm is just irritating UX or does it flow naturally
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KartikPrabhu dhalgren`: not sure what the latest is, should be documented on the wiki
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voxpelli I think standalone indieweb consumers / indie readers has much appeal
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voxpelli I see little reason to couple publishing tools with consumption tools
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: but that seems to be the primary reason silos are popular
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: I think silos are popular because their are great readers / clients – not because they host your data
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dhalgren` quite likely, but that may still leave a bunch of ppl who prefer different kinds of interactions, just maybe caught in the network effect of the big silos (ie having all their friends there etc).
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voxpelli If eg. Facebook were to be a reader for Indieweb content I would have much less problem with it
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dhalgren` like, google reader had a strong niche appeal. perhaps if made more "social" it would've been a better shot at some traction for google in the social sphere than what G+ ended up being
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KartikPrabhu dhalgren`: yes that's why I said depends on your personal use-case
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dhalgren` yy
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voxpelli Good thing with indie readers are that people can pick their own client and still participate in same network
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KartikPrabhu dhalgren`: Google Reader had nice appeal. But that's about it. All my "nerd" friends used it but not much beyond that
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: yes exactly. People who don't want a in-built reader might use a service
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dhalgren` KartikPrabhu: sure - still that's not a bad userbase to start with. today new social networks seem to specialize and target (or just end up with?) particular subdemographics, for the "generic net" category seems to be taken. I just mean, maybe building from that base would've gone further than trying yet another fb/twitter clone that late in the game
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dhalgren` as they essentially tried w g+
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KartikPrabhu dhalgren`: sure. woodwind is one
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KartikPrabhu what is woodwind?
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Loqi Woodwind is Kyle Mahan's minimalist open source indie reader https://indiewebcamp.com/Woodwind
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dhalgren` hm!
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voxpelli Google Buzz was kind of such an attempt to exten Google Reader, wasn't it?
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KartikPrabhu it went on to become G+
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voxpelli G+ and Google Buzz aren't that related? No one dared to go near Buzz after it's failure I think
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KartikPrabhu yes and google moved them all to G+
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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voxpelli Yeah, the people, not the tech
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dhalgren` not sure re buzz; wasn't following it at the time
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dhalgren` I'm still trying to wrap my head around this webaction story; so this trustless micropub version is where one gives only a to-be-moderated "comment" auth token, and actually the app that posts to your resource is your app, just pre-filled with the values sent by the form, whereas indie-config makes it so that any <indie-action> markuped actions are handled by your code, wherever on the web you find them, because you registered that c
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dhalgren` with your browser as a handler of that component type?
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voxpelli dhalgren`: indie-config/webaction specifies a page/URL to be opened with some params specified
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voxpelli Mimics how eg Twitter buttons works today
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voxpelli Indie-config specify a way to tell the site about what URL:s to open for what actions
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dhalgren` w/a trust between the servers? who actually does the POST to these urls? his code or yours?
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dhalgren` her/his , sry for the male bias :)
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dhalgren` I thought I load some javascript of myown to post to my site in the indie-config case
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voxpelli dhalgren`: there are no POST involved in indie-config/webaction, just one GET to receive config and then regular browser window for opening URL specified in config
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dhalgren` nvm, will read more, not fair to ask to be spoon-fed this way
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voxpelli dhalgren`: no problem at all asking!
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voxpelli Idea with indie-config/webaction is to prototype something that eventually could be implemented by browsers themselves
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dhalgren` there's that step at the beggining where you need to tell your browser how to handle web+action links, and there's some js scripts to load, soo I thought the code there takes control somehow when the browser follows a webaction link
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voxpelli dhalgren`: that code is just a hack to load a JSON-config from a user-defined URL
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dhalgren` ha!
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dhalgren` but I'm worried about security here; I can't trust another web server or its js to do what I as that web's user told it to do
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voxpelli dhalgren`: the indie-config JS is hosted by you and the config JSON is sent over postMessage()
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voxpelli So for you as a site owner the user-configured JS never gets access to any of your site as it's loaded in an Iframe on another origin
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dhalgren` ahh, I see
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dhalgren` heh, I was thinking (plz bear with the nebulousness of the idea for a moment plz) - what if I never left my site at all? say that when I want to visit a socially-enabled site, I just tell my site to pull its h-feed somehow. Then I can easily comment and publish comments, all I need for interoperability is send a notification, and PuSH
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dhalgren` plus I get a consistent look out of my web experience, as I'm usually irritated that I can't just theme all the web like I can a text editor (say zenburn and all looks that way)
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dhalgren` sidesteps the issue
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voxpelli dhalgren`: that's what many are looking at doing, building a reader into their own site
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voxpelli I'm going with a more multi-service approach (because hard to build anything into a Jekyll site)
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dhalgren` oooh, you've got a jekyll site?
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voxpelli dhalgren`: yes: https://github.com/voxpelli/voxpelli.github.com?files=1
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voxpelli It can receive WebMentions + has a Micropub interface, and I'm working on adding more
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dhalgren` code I've got is hakyll, a haskell clone of jekyll, perhaps slightly more flexible (or so I've heard but haven't compared myself). Code makes me vomit when I look at it these days, but will likely be what builds ver. 0.1 :)
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voxpelli I use GitHub Pages so I don't even run Jekyll myself :)
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dhalgren` I'll take a look at how you do things; should be similar to what I need to do
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voxpelli dhalgren`: here's an overview of my setup: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kodfabrik.se
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dhalgren` thx!
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@klischka @goncourt Eine Idee dazu: https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/670961165678309377)
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@goncourt RT @klischka: @goncourt Eine Idee dazu: https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/670963060077629440)
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Loqi [bridgy] goncourt replied '@klischka Wenn jetzt noch das unkomplizierte Quer-Kommunizieren (Dialoge über Twitter, FB, eigene Sites etc) damit realisiert wäre…' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/goncourt/status/670962624339828738)
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Loqi [bridgy] goncourt replied '@klischka Es geht ja auch um veränderte Lese-Dialog-Streams z.B. durch Twitter/FB. RSS allein hat ja schon sehr viel aggregiert.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/goncourt/status/670962894050361344)
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Loqi [bridgy] Konrad Lischka replied '@goncourt ja, leider nicht unkompliziert. Aber immerhin: Kommentare von Twitter holt es zuverlässig hierher zB konradlischka.info/2015/11/bl...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/klischka/status/670969756191752194)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+25) "put organizers higher up for contact purposes, put participating right after schedule" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Planning (-24) "/* To Do */ schedule page setup" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk I'm seeing errors on new etherpads on IndieWebCamp like: "Warning: DirtyDB is used. This is fine for testing but not recommended for production. -- To suppress these warning messages change suppressErrorsInPadText to true in your settings.json" e.g. on http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp-sf
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Planning (+456) "todo: Setup main Etherpad" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Planning (+1) "/* To Do */ ..." (view diff)
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GWG I feel like if I had more hours in the day, I could make a lot of Indieweb progress
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@bbruengger #ownyourdata #healthdata @healthbankcoop https://twitter.com/ginasue/status/668521747935682564 (twitter.com/_/status/671006734052409344)
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tantek welcome back bengo.is! http://bengo.is/notes/20151129-bengo-is-back
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tantek what is Google Cloud?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Google_Cloud
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tantek welcome back bengo (.is) :)
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tantek bengo, sounds like Google Cloud is too much of a pain to bother setting up - or too vulnerable to being too much of a pain if anything goes wrong.
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tantek hmm what's the difference/relation between Google Cloud and Google Compute Engine?
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tantek bengo, you linked from your recent note to http://bengo.is/notes/20150324-first which references GCE
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tantek what is Google Compute Engine?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Compute Engine" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1085
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tantek what is app engine?
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Loqi Google App Engine is a an application hosting service that supports several programming languages https://indiewebcamp.com/app_engine
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GWG tantek, I have been thinking about some you were working on for a while.
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GWG You did a lot of pondering on like presentation.
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GWG I'm back to presentation enhancement and am trying to figure out a name issue
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tantek yes, I start with the UX when thinking about / designing new features
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GWG If you are the only person on your site, do you need to note who is liking something?
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GWG For example, "Tantek likes Tomorrowland" as opposed to just "Likes Tomorrowland"
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tantek GWG - great question! And as you might expect, depends on the specific design and context
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tantek so I'll ask you that, in what context?
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GWG Then is it likes or liked?
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tantek that's a different question
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tantek one at a time
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GWG Well, I have two scenarios, a single author and multi author site.
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tantek again it still depends on the design and the context
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tantek e.g. for context, do you mean on the home page? on a permalink? on an archive page of several posts? etc.
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tantek each of those is a different context
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GWG Currently I do not distinguish between a single view and a home/archive view and I would like to consider that as well.
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tantek.com edited /Google (+82) "separate Google Cloud section of services" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, really? E.g. my permalinks have webaction buttons but my homepage view my posts do not
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GWG I don't do webactions. I had them, but had to remove them because I felt the design wasn't fully baked.
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GWG I may return to them.
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GWG But it isn't what I am thinking about now.
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GWG Since I divide features into plugins, I'd classify webactions as a separate plugin.
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tantek.com edited /Google_Cloud (+913) "expand dfn beyond just a URL, see also, issues / Billing issues very poorly handled, avoid using for personal website hosting" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, makes sense, if a feature is unnecessary for you, then it is right to leave it out
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GWG It was more that I couldn't decide on my silo fallback
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tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+1) "/* Static domain hosting */ put advantages/disadvantages at top of section, not part of a subsection that is service specific" (view diff)
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GWG But I have not explored a different presentation on the single view but that is worth thought.
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GWG Basically, I spent a lot of time working to get parsed data about a URL and now I want to present it.
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tantek.com edited /Google_Cloud (+111) "/* Billing issues very poorly handled */ more real world examples of how billing issues can easily happen" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, did you read the background thinking on the design of "like" presentation on /like ?
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GWG Does anyone do link previews for likes?
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GWG Actually I did
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tantek pretty sure I captured the "likes" vs "liked" question there
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GWG I should read it more, there is a lot there to internalize
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tantek and also the do you explicitly say who like it, or is it implicit
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Loqi agreed.
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tantek if you can't find it, let me know and I'll find it and make it more findable
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GWG I have it up
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aaronpk interesting example of a bookmark post on twitter https://twitter.com/matthewsinclair/status/671001018914721793
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GWG I think I just have to build something
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GWG a
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 27 minutes ago: I'm seeing errors on new etherpads on IndieWebCamp like: "Warning: DirtyDB is used. This is fine for testing but not recommended for production. -- To suppress these warning messages change suppressErrorsInPadText to true in your settings.json" e.g. on http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp-sf http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-29/line/1448812050412
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@matthewsinclair “OAuth 2 Simplified” https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/07/29/1/oauth2-simplified #bookmarked (twitter.com/_/status/671001018914721793)
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GWG and iterate
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aaronpk buildanditerate++
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Loqi buildanditerate has 1 karma
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tantek buildshipanditerate++
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Loqi buildshipanditerate has 1 karma
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GWG I just did build. Now I want to rip it out and do better
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tantek just added Skype Chat to my /contact page, and dropped iMessage and FaceTime because of AppleID problems
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GWG I still am wondering about putting a link preview on every post type that has a link as its focus.
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aaronpk i should probably switch the etherpad to use sqlite instead of the db file which is what that warning is about
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Loqi yea
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aaronpk however that means all the existing pads will disappear. is that okay? I assume we've moved everything to the wiki that's needed
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tantek we have not
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tantek :(
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tantek do you have a way of getting a list of existing pads?
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tantek everytime I archive an etherpad I note at the top the URL that it is archived at
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tantek that way anyone else that comes along knows it has been archived
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tantek assume etherpads have NOT been archived unless they explicitly say they have
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tantek this is partially why I have so many open tabs in Firefox
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tantek lots of open Etherpad tabs that of sessions I participated in that AFAIK no one archived
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tantek I think over a year's worth now
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aaronpk hmm. well i can just make that warning not show up.
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aaronpk okay warning is hidden for now. will add that as a todo to switch to sqlite after importing all the pads
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tantek I think we need to add Etherpad archiving to an explicit thing that IndieWebCamp organizers need to do, because so far we are 50/50 at best of session organizers archiving their own etherpads.
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tantek importing?
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tantek not sure how else to solve this
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aaronpk assuming the etherpad URLs are clean, I could make a Loqi command to do it
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aaronpk if that would make it easier to import the text
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tantek everytime I've archived an etherpad it's needed cleanup
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tantek because line-breaks work in etherpad
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tantek but collapse to a " " whitespace in wikitext
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aaronpk hmm yeah
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tantek and losing those line breaks almost always loses meaning
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tantek it's really bad
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aaronpk that also sounds like a relatively simple automatic transform
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tantek hah
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aaronpk http://rubular.com/r/mddVMajiD0
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tantek as someone who has written an auto_whitespace function
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tantek it is non-trivial
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aaronpk would it get the etherpad text 90% of the way there?
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aaronpk also updated: http://rubular.com/r/6wjBiCscOG
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aaronpk cause this is not about a perfect solution. it's about making it easier for people to move the content to the wiki. Kind of like how we use "____ is" in IRC to create wiki stubs.
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tantek yeah
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tantek ok I suppose you could put in <br /> for that regex
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tantek that should work in the wiki
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tantek also I can't seem to find any "top level" or "index" etherpads on etherpad.indiewebcamp.com
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tantek e.g. http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp is boilerplate
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aaronpk I think we were using the wiki schedule pages to link to etherpads?
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tantek so no more etherpad indexes?
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tantek like what's this? https://indiewebcamp.com/etherpad-archive
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aaronpk ah here's the one for 2015 http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/2015
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tantek oh we used the same paths
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tantek huh, etherpad doesn't like "/" in pad names
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tantek e.g. http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT
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tantek "Cannot GET /p/2015/MIT "
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tantek lol that's helpful
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aaronpk oh interesting, that /etherpad-archive page looks like it came from an etherpad doc
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aaronpk hm i might be able to change that
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tantek yes - only one edit - you created it
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tantek http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/2015-MIT is boilerplate
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aaronpk I found that 2015 page from the wiki 2015 schedule
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aaronpk ah I thought that "/" issue might be nginx but it is actually etherpad not supporting it
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aaronpk so, no way for me to fix that quickly
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tantek don't worry about it - never a problem for us before
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tantek though it would be nice to just use same path for wiki page / etherpad page
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tantek would be easier to semi-automatically archive that way
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aaronpk I think I need a new goal to launch my new site
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tantek how about by monday night?
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aaronpk hah
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aaronpk I definitely have more work than that left
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aaronpk My original goal was to launch with feature parity with my current site.
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aaronpk which includes things like showing multi-replies, displaying reply context, linking to translations of my posts
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aaronpk but now I am thinking about creating minimum viable versions of those things to remove some of the work before I can launch
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tantek is it a day's worth?
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aaronpk I think I have at least a day's worth of just importing content
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tantek I suppose that's the challenge with being feature-rich!
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aaronpk yep! and also one of the reasons I'm moving a lot of that kind of functionality out to services!
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tantek whoa I just found this http://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/
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tantek what is iCloud
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Loqi iCloud is what Apple summarily calls all of its various online services such as iCloud identifiers, online storage, syncing, etc https://indiewebcamp.com/iCloud
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tantek.com edited /iCloud (+155) "status, see also" (view diff)
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@kylewmahan @iboxifoo hope you’ll come to IWC SF (http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF) on Thursday. It’s gonna be a hack day instead of a full blown camp this time. (twitter.com/_/status/671043987541655553)
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@kylewmahan @pauloppenheim hey Paul, hope you can join us for an IWC SF hack day this Thursday! (http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF) (twitter.com/_/status/671044458377383936)
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@kylewmahan @wavis interested in attending IndieWebCamp SF this Thurs? Gonna be a hack day instead of a full camp this year (http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF) (twitter.com/_/status/671045312782270465)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+300) "-stub, add MozSF image" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm++ for personal invitations to IWC SF!
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Loqi kylewm has 273 karma
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tantek hopefully making that page look prettier just in time
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tantek anybody heard from andi? any news on eventbrite page setup?
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+20) "clear sched table" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (-1) (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Planning (+452) "/* To Do */ people to invite" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: should I add people who RSVPed on Facebook to the wiki guest list?
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tantek yes - with their facebook profile as the URL
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tantek which reminds me
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tantek !tell ben_thatmustbeme could you double-check the RSVPs for the FB event for indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT and add the late RSVPs to the /2015/MIT/Guest_List? E.g. I know at least Yan was a late addition. Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek kylewm: yes - and with their facebook profile image as their avatar
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+3562) "/* Facebook RSVPs */ and update totals" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+299) "/* RSVPs from Other Sites */ add Will Norris" (view diff)
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tantek !tell bengo now that you have bengo.is working again, sign-in to IndieWebCamp.com and add yourself to the IWC SF guest list! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek wow didn't realize we were that close to hitting capacity!
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tantek !tell aaronpk could you add yourself to the IWC SF guest list! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oh my am I not on there already?
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tantek !tell dariusdunlap could you add yourself to the IWC SF guest list! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk yeah you're in the FB section :P
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aaronpk haha oops
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tantek !tell kevinmarks could you add yourself to the IWC SF guest list! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List ?
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Loqi hehe
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+618) "/* RSVPs from Other Sites */ Don't know why I missed these" (view diff)
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kevinmarks I alway RSVPd in 2 media
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ 1 spot remaining!" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benwerd really hope you can make it to IndieWebCampSF - could you add yourself to the IWC SF guest list! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oops edit conflict
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tantek kylewm: could we track page RSVPs vs. from FB separately in counts?
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+41) "add myself" (view diff)
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tantek I have a feeling most people use FB "attending" as "interested"
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kylewm yes
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kylewm ohh I took this to be an RSVP but it was not! http://werd.io/2015/looking-forward-to-it
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kylewm and willnorris rsvped from his site https://willnorris.com/2015/10/attending-indiewebcamp
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tantek Should we add an Indie RSVPs section?
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tantek to highlight those folks?
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kevinmarks above the silos one
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kevinmarks then I'll be there thrice
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tantek I mean above even the wiki one
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tantek no you get the highest ranking RSVP once :)
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kevinmarks.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (-21) "move me rom fb to direct" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+2) "/* Participants */ my site isn't https yet" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+42) "/* Participants */ split out FB RSVPs in the count. Approximate remaining slots" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ counts" (view diff)
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aaronpk we have so many events now that it's making me want to make a proper indieweb events RSVP website
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tantek what does that even mean?
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aaronpk accepting RSVPs by webmention, and also direct RSVPs
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tantek that was an idea for events.indiewebcamp.com (check IRC logs) that we discussed before
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek don't know if that brainstorm got written up anywhere
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aaronpk having HWC every 2 weeks is upping that itch
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tantek I didn't bother because I'm still working on events for my own website
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aaronpk plus quite a lot of IWCs
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tantek the hard part is we have to define what it means in terms of canonical or representative events
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tantek RSVPs from copies etc.
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tantek like to RSVPs to reposts of events get salmentioned to the original?
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tantek s/like to/like do
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Loqi tantek meant to say: like do RSVPs to reposts of events get salmentioned to the original?
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aaronpk seems like it'd be good to think about this and write it all down. think that'd be a good "design" hack day project for thursday?
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aaronpk I would gladly lead a session on that if we're doing more than one session for the day
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+212) "subsections for indie rsvps vs wiki rsvps, move a few to indie rsvps" (view diff)
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tantek current schedule has more than one session
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tantek I expect a mix of design and hacking sessions
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aaronpk cool, well I will propose that in the morning then :)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+22) "Will Norris indie rsvpd, use his rsvp permalink as url" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+15) "/* Participants */ signedup via split out indie rsvps vs wiki vs fb" (view diff)
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kevinmarks https://twitter.com/dangillmor/status/671050571772653568
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@dangillmor Maybe the Web is better than apps for building a business after all... https://medium.com/swlh/mobile-app-developers-are-suffering-a5636c57d576#.rar5vf1bb h/t @kevinmarks (twitter.com/_/status/671050571772653568)
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tantek kevinmarks can you reach out to @dangillmor and invite him to IWC SF?
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tantek since he came to the first one?
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kevinmarks I did, he's in Phoenix that day
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kevinmarks hm, can we reach out to Matt Mullenweg?
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tantek darn
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tantek sure you can try!
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tantek kylewm: did you upload the singular image of all the faces from /2014-review somewhere on IWC wiki?
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kylewm no
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tantek I don't see it in https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Log/upload
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tantek you've used it for several past FB POSSE event copies right?
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tantek you have the image handy somewhere and can upload perhaps?
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tantek trying to find a reference for it for the eventbrite
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kevinmarks I think I posted it ot fb
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kevinmarks hang on
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kylewm oh phew, I was wondering where I got it
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kevinmarks hm, can't find it locally though
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aaronparecki.com edited /jf2 (+996) "/* Example */ update example with real data" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (-17) "/* RSVP */ Eventbrite coming soon!" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF (+57) "/* RSVP */ add Eventbrite URL" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (-33) "/* RSVP */ use custom/short URL" (view diff)
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@benwerd The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would do it again. (twitter.com/_/status/671076448392769536)
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tantek everyone back from the netsplit?
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GWG tantek: Didn't notice a netsplit
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GWG But, glad we are all once again united if there was one
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tantek !tell aaronpk, kevinmarks, benwerd, snarfed, rhiaro, bengo, willnorris, dariusdunlap Go get your IndieWebCamp SF ticket from Eventbrite! http://indiewebcamp.eventbrite.com/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@LillyLyle RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671078005922529280)
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tantek GWG, my client showed a lot of departures and then rejoinings, e.g. "kevinmarks left the chat room. (*.net *.split)"
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rhiaro Do I have to RSVP to all the things?
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rhiaro I already RSVPd on the wiki page and to the wiki page with my own rsvp post
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tantek hmm - didn't see your RSVP post here https://kylewm.com/2015/12/indiewebcamp-sf-2015
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tantek the wiki page is unable to display RSVP webmentions for now
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tantek and in answer to your question - no just two
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tantek the eventbrite, and then one other (indie rsvp to indie event, add self to wiki, or add self to FB)
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tantek rhiaro: ^^^
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rhiaro I indie rsvpd to the wiki page because I don't think Kyle's event was up when I did so.. I can amend that to ping kyle's instead
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tantek ah - makes sense - yes we need to as organizers all post all the things much more in advance. we're all still learning :)
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tantek welcome back aaronpk
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aaronpk now I am back
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 minutes ago: Go get your IndieWebCamp SF ticket from Eventbrite! http://indiewebcamp.eventbrite.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-29/line/1448832412033
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aaronpk oh good Loqi is still here
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Loqi yeah!
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@carlesbellver RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671079085616070660)
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rhiaro I already rsvpd to kyles, turns out http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/11/indiewebcamp-sf
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rhiaro Wonder why my wm didn't get through
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@hsigreens RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671080696044265472)
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@itknowingness RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671080699848433665)
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@kcarruthers RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671080942090383360)
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+64) "/* Official Guest List */ indie rsvp to Kyle's event, clean up wording for creators" (view diff)
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@voxpelli @benwerd Funding should probably not be for #indieweb, but rather should #indieweb be parts of the requirements when funding (twitter.com/_/status/671081872487772162)
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rhiaro tantek: is the eventbrite canonical? why is that one mandatory?
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tantek rhiaro: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/11/indiewebcamp-sf your "p-rsvp" value is big text string - not the values for p-rsvp: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#p-rsvp
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tantek rhiaro: because we have no other way of tracking / limiting # of sign-ups
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tantek no one else does #-of-yes-rsvps tracking / limiting
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tantek and we haven't defined how to even do that for an h-event
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rhiaro oh, that rsvp method works for aaronpk's events
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tantek though that would be worth figuring out!
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tantek wat
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rhiaro Will tweak
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rhiaro Updating my templates currently a bit anyway
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tantek he accepts any rsvp value?!?
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rhiaro I thought I had "yes" in a data element actually
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rhiaro yeahh.. hmm, what's going on
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (-11) "/* Publish an RSVP */ link to p-rsvp property in particular" (view diff)
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@dkreuz RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671082612711161857)
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@dkreuz RT @voxpelli: @benwerd Funding should probably not be for #indieweb, but rather should #indieweb be parts of the requirements when funding (twitter.com/_/status/671082641949618176)
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voxpelli is curious about rsvp-limiting when eg. tickets needs to be bought and spots at the event is limited – is PESOS only way? (a topic for another day maybe)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+104) "/* Publish an RSVP */ explicitly list possible RSVP values - they've been stable for a while" (view diff)
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@antonymcmullen RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671082903887941632)
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tantek voxpelli: I think aaronpk will want to talk about that at indieWebCamp SF!
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tantek voxpelli: feel free to start gathering examples for /rsvp-limiting!
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tantek (sites that do it today like Eventbrite)
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tantek rhiaro: also I updated https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#Publish_an_RSVP with more immediate information, better links
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tantek HTH
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voxpelli tantek: cool, yeah, I will be building a conference website now and thinking about trying to get some IndieWeb parts into it where possible
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tantek that's awesome. if we can solve the limited attendance problem that would be very cool
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tantek we could use it for every single HWC and IWC
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voxpelli will note my thoughts when I get to that part of the implementation
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tantek hmm
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tantek aaronpk: the header on indiewebcamp.com links (RSVP) to Kylewm's post which doesn't actually say HOW to RSVP!
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@timklapdor THIS! Higher Ed needs to start backing the indieweb rather than spending/investing on the big corporates & startups https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/671076448392769536 (twitter.com/_/status/671083571797352448)
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tantek I think it should link to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF#RSVP
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@t #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671084385634877440)
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@andigalpern RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671085194410000384)
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@cascadesf RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671085265755070464)
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@ayirpelle RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671086175185010688)
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@kevinmarks RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671087036682629121)
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@schnarfed RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671087628385693700)
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aaronpk tantek: the header links to whatever the first url value on the event page is
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aaronpk so feel free to edit the wiki accordingly :)
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tantek oh!
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tantek aaronpk: you mean the /events page?
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aaronpk (updated every 15 minutes)
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tantek or the specific event from /next-iwc?
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tantek if the later then it should simply add #RSVP to that
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rhiaro does a <data> element want a u- or a p- for value?
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aaronpk no, it uses http://indiewebcamp.com/next-iwc
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tantek aaronpk, in that case it should not read that page but instead just append #RSVP to it
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tantek rhiaro: depends if you want relative URL resolution to occur or not
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aaronpk it's reading the page to get the event name and stuff
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aaronpk and the date
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tantek that's fine
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tantek however for an "RSVP" button - there is not going to be any URLs on that page for the "RSVP"
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tantek except for the section RSVP
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tantek hence #RSVP
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move 11-24 hwc edi to past" (view diff)
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aaronpk so always link to /next-iwc#RSVP?
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tantek an "RSVP" button should yes
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tantek alternatively it could link to /Guest_List
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aaronpk okay that should update in 5 minutes
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aaronpk okay. i'm still using the url value for the hyperlink on the event name
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tantek why? why not just use what /next-iwc points to?
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tantek I'm surprised because when the header was updated manually, that's what it pointed to
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tantek the wiki page of the event. not the first URL on the wiki page of the event
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tantek aaronpk this is not making any sense
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aaronpk i can make it link to /next-iwc but I can't make it "follow" that link
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tantek the first u-url on https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF is the page itself
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tantek as is the u-uid
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tantek so something is wrong in the script
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@ZenSaiyuki RT @benwerd: The Internet and the web weren't created by startups: it was #edtech and research centers. Public funding for #indieweb would … (twitter.com/_/status/671090927386030080)
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aaronpk that was a quite recent change https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=2015/SF&diff=23408&oldid=23399
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aaronpk ah I actually made it update once a day, which is why it hasn't updated to that yet
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aaronpk poor freenode
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@mlncn @FrankPasquale @jcohencole We need a service/self-hosted software (#indieweb!) that makes it easy to do fair use corrections, & link to that (twitter.com/_/status/671094729220730880)
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aaronpk anyway I updated it so the event name will alwyas link to literally /next-iwc and "RSVP" will always link to /next-iwc#RSVP
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@HongPong RT @mlncn: @FrankPasquale @jcohencole We need a service/self-hosted software (#indieweb!) that makes it easy to do fair use corrections, & … (twitter.com/_/status/671094923706388481)
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@belongbot4000 RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671097592269402112)
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@DamonOehlman RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/671103552509493248)
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gRegorLove ben_thatmustbeme: You around for a quick test of me sending you a webmention with vouch?
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