#indiewebcamp 2015-12-16

2015-12-16 UTC
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KevinMarks hm, kyle's collection post type looks like my noterlive output, as they are a list of cites
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GWG Evening
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 12 hours, 1 minute ago: what is the licence on your WP bridgy-publish plugin? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-15/line/1450184698579
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 12 hours, 1 minute ago: nothing, found it, sorry http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-15/line/1450184721377
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GWG I need to update that plugin
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KevinMarks the other examples don't have the collected items as children
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GWG If you could spend all day writing Indieweb stuff, would you?
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GWG I always feel like I am not scratching my itches fast enough
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KevinMarks I would like to
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GWG KevinMarks, going to do an end of year post? Or end of year goal?
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KevinMarks my sons are home for the holidays so likely going to be focusing on them instead of my site
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KevinMarks unless we do site updates together - they're both on known
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GWG Nothing brings a family together around the holidays like site updates
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GWG I have December 25 off this year for the first time in several. Maybe I will spend it hacking.
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GWG Usually I just use the day to celebrate the Eggnog Riots of 1826,but hacking seems much more productive
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Salmentions (+42) "add myself as co-editor" (view diff)
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@hectoriribarne @indiewebcamp @t I am in southeast Florida (twitter.com/_/status/676956422534471682)
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ben_thatmustbeme \o/ yay, successfully storing reacji... now just need to get them displaying!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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ben_thatmustbeme you and me loqi!
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ben_thatmustbeme dances with Loqi
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Loqi dude
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry!
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll go dance with another bot then :P
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@HNSGR Wie im Märchen: der Versicherer Allianz arbeitet mit der künstlichen Intelligenz von IBM. #iot #ai #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/nzzwirtschaft/status/676692881634140160 (twitter.com/_/status/677023651426902016)
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Loqi Loqi goes offline soon while some more Linode servers reboot
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 12/14/15 at 8:37am
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calumryan.com created /Template:calumryan (+254) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="https://calumryan.com/images/profile.jpg" class="u-photo" style="height:1.2em;vertical-align:bottom" alt="Calum Ryan"><a..."" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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calumryan.com created /User:Calumryan.com (+402) "Created page with "<span style="float:right;margin-left:1em"><img src="https://calumryan.com/images/profile.jpg" style="width:128px"></span> = <a class="h-card" href="https://calumryan.com">Calum ..."" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hello everyone
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petermolnar hi
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone feel like helping me test some reacji? I need more reacjis to start working on display
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /reacji (+104) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ have reacji working! still working on UI, but its visible" (view diff)
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petermolnar ben_thatmustbeme damn, my response has the in reply to url in the content
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petermolnar i need to get rid of that
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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ben_thatmustbeme it doesn't actually include a link back to the source yet like it does with comments
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to figure out the UI for that
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ben_thatmustbeme in theory i'm converting likes to reacji of hearts too
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ben_thatmustbeme but haven't tested it yet
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petermolnar ben_thatmustbeme is the single emoji is wrapped around with html (eg. <p>), is that an issue?
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ben_thatmustbeme i take the text equiv so html tags should be stripped out without trouble
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ben_thatmustbeme now the question is how do you show who sent each reacji in a way that makes sense
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm going to try and copy the UI from slack to start, but it means getting a hover over each to show icons of who sent them
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ben_thatmustbeme and then dealing with that growing larger gets messy too
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ben_thatmustbeme one step at a time though
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ben_thatmustbeme petermolnar: i reprocessed that webmention https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/8/2/ is updated
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@dissolve333 Woohoo, reacji working on my site! #indieweb (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/16/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/677170470152593408)
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ben_thatmustbeme can make sure reacji work from backfed tweets
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[snarfed] aww almost! damn required @-mention :/
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ben_thatmustbeme why is the @-mention required?
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ben_thatmustbeme is it just that it doesn't pick up the reply without that?
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ben_thatmustbeme would it make sense to remove the username on backfeed?
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aaronpk afaik on twitter you can only leave out the @-mention for replies to yourself. other ppls' replies require they mention the name of the person they're replying to
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ben_thatmustbeme ohhh
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ben_thatmustbeme weird, if you remove the @-mention it just become a regular tweet
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ben_thatmustbeme seems odd
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aaronpk makes sense to me
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aaronpk the threads would get weird otherwise
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ben_thatmustbeme how so?
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aaronpk you wouldn't be able to tell why something was appearing in the thread
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ben_thatmustbeme well you would know they had to have hit "reply"
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ben_thatmustbeme its stranger then that the UI lets you remove the mention in a reply box and have it appear as a regular tweet
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ben_thatmustbeme s/then/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: its stranger  that the UI lets you remove the mention in a reply box and have it appear as a regular tweet
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ben_thatmustbeme would it make sense for bridgy to strip out the @mention?
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aaronpk I don't think so, because the @-mention can be re-arranged within the text. mayyyybe makes sense to remove it if it's the first thing in the text, but i'm not convinced
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ben_thatmustbeme i feel like there is no good place to remove it, I don't really want to have code on my end for something that might be a reply from a specific silo (and might not be)
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ben_thatmustbeme to me it makes the most sense there, since its really a matter of masking twitter awkwardness, but yes you would likely only want to do it if its the first thing in the tweet
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aaronpk I guess I don't really consider it "twitter awkwardness". that's just how people talk on twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme well it is enforced by the UI
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ben_thatmustbeme its not "just how people talk on twitter" its "how people talk on twitter because they don't have a choice"
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aaronpk that can be said about anything
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ben_thatmustbeme the real problem is that twitter obscured their intention to have it or not
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ben_thatmustbeme and we don't know how to disambiguate
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@MozTeach RT @jgmac1106: A poem inspired by @DorineFlies Youth Advocacy work: https://medium.com/digital-teaching-and-learning/so-you-want-your-kid-to-code-b9b058483934 #teachtheweb #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/677210585747070977)
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@chim0 #TIL #reacji: http://indiewebcamp.com/reacji (twitter.com/_/status/677235101323894784)
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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tantek how was HWC Brighton?
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ben_thatmustbeme good afternoon tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme nice, it works, likes are now just generalized to reacji hearts on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme i suppose i should still keep something around to display like count should anyone want that from it
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tantek Slack displays count for each - is that what you mean?
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tantek hey there mr emoji - I somehow forgot to copy the emoji from my IG caption to my own post so they didn't go through to the POSSE copies of my photo this morning.
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tantek what is reacji?
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Loqi reacji is an emoji reaction, the use of a single emoji character in response to a post, introduced as a feature by Slack[1] https://indiewebcamp.com/reacji
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tantek oh that is sweet. (just now looking at https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/8/2/ )
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I have questions, like how does one markup an emoji? is it just a reply with one emoji character? is it a like that also has content of one emoji character?
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aaronpk I didn't make any changes to post my reacji there
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/12/16/2/
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+613) "why, how to" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+7) "move toc down" (view diff)
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tantek is there an emoji for reacji?
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ben_thatmustbeme a reply that has just one emoji in it
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tantek well at least I got that right: https://indiewebcamp.com/reacji#How_to_markup
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tantek took an educated guess from memory of discussions.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: since you've done the hard work, perhaps you could add some details here? https://indiewebcamp.com/reacji#How_to_receive_and_display
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+21) (view diff)
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aaronpk does it make sense for me to add reacji handling in webmention.io? or would that be handled by the site using webmention.io?
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tantek what would it do differently?
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aaronpk differently from what?
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ben_thatmustbeme type would change, that would be the only difference
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tantek type?
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+233) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ receiving & displaying vs reacji posts themselves, subheads" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: y no POSSE tweet of https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/12/16/2/ ?
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tantek I'd think you'd want people to @-reply you with a single emoji character and have it work!
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aaronpk ?
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tantek oops wrong URL
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aaronpk ah. he tested twitter backfeed later.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: y no POSSE tweet of https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/8/2/
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aaronpk but you can't reply to a tweet with only an emoji because you need to include their username
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, bridgy backfed with the username
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ben_thatmustbeme in the body
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tantek which makes sense, and is detectable
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tantek I think it's ok to explicitly drop the @-reply from a reacjweet
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ben_thatmustbeme detectable, but more work
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tantek trivial compared to the work you already did!
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aaronpk heh
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tantek @([a-zA-Z0-9_]*)
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tantek @([a-zA-Z0-9_]+)
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tantek close enough
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tantek excuse me while I copy from my own code
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tantek @[_a-zA-Z0-9]{1,17}
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aaronpk I would remove /^@([a-zA-Z0-9_]+) / and then test if the remaining string is a single emoji
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tantek there you go
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singpolyma maybe strip whitespace? just in case?
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aaronpk (there's a single space in my regex)
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tantek I feel like we should allow a like with p-content of a single emoji to also work for this
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tantek so you can use likes as fallback for receivers that don't (yet) support reacji
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /reacji (+527) "/* How to receive and display */" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's an interesting overloading of "like"
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aaronpk the emoji used may not represent a "like" though
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tantek well if we take like to now universally mean a single heart reacji then it follows
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tantek aaronpk true - so this is only for like-like emoji ;)
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tantek it's ok that we optimize for likes, biasing our design for positive reactions as it were ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme so i'm following slack's thinking on this one, a like is a heart / thumbs up / star / whatever you want, but a reacji is not a like
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tantek wait huh? how does slack differentiate? I haven't noticed that
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ben_thatmustbeme reacji are far more expressive and we don't need to attach any specific meaning for them
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ben_thatmustbeme they don't
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ben_thatmustbeme slack lets the symbol do the talking
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aaronpk +1 for not attaching extra meaning by naming things
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ben_thatmustbeme their thinking was that people wanted dislike, and favorite and ....
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aaronpk I don't want to "like with a birthday cake", I just want to send a birthday cake
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tantek alright so for reacji + like backcompat I'd have to combine them
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ben_thatmustbeme exactly
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tantek "u-like-of u-in-reply-to" and then a p-content. hmmm
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tantek >:)
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ben_thatmustbeme that may play havok with my system
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tantek let's find out
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, actually, that might just end up as 2 likes lol
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ben_thatmustbeme previously i tried to support multiple things like "like and reply in one post"
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ben_thatmustbeme but now if i get a like, it sets it to a reacji heart
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ben_thatmustbeme and if its a reply that has one emoji it sets it to a reacji
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ben_thatmustbeme both of those may actually trigger
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmmm
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tantek I'm more curious what Falcon will do with it
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ben_thatmustbeme i definitely think the reply with single emoji is much better, fits with how people use it on Github, facebook, etc
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, i think thats a fine fallback on its own
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aaronpk yeah i can't really find a reason why special markup would be helpful
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tantek so my display needs a little work
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, and about twitter backfeed, its actually easier than that regex, because i only care if it start with MY handle
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ben_thatmustbeme so i can literally just strip out @dissolve333
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ben_thatmustbeme just make the configurable for others
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tantek hmm - webmentioned you and nothing happened
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ben_thatmustbeme give it a minute
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ben_thatmustbeme cron job remember
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tantek ah - my code is adding fallback content of "likes " to the emoji
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tantek reacji feel like fancy likes to me, so I think that's how I'm going to post them
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ben_thatmustbeme even if its a frowny face?
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ben_thatmustbeme or a pile of poo?
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ben_thatmustbeme or <expression> face
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aaronpk having spent time in several slack channels dedicated to specific "topic"s like "#bad-attitude" where people post sometimes quite awful things and are looking for sympathy or just need to vent, reacji definitely don't feel like fancy likes to me
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ben_thatmustbeme many of those are not likes
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ben_thatmustbeme also, tantek, i got the webmention and just interpretted it as a heart
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tantek because on my end the content was more than an emoji
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tantek let's see if I can fix that
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ben_thatmustbeme i guess like over-rides the reacji in this case
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tantek though a reacji is a stronger / richer reaction, thus it should take precedence
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme give me a break i just got it working this morning!
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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tantek hah - I'm hacking a post type that my system doesn't even support yet
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aaronpk still not sure why this is a new post type
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aaronpk i posted a birthday cake response without having to change anything
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tantek I mean sure I could do that too
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tantek I'm trying to do a combo like+reacji
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aaronpk i think actually not combining them is more representative of what's happening
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tantek so I can reacji anything and at least have the recipient get the "like" meaning even if they don't interpret the reacji
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aaronpk well that will require that the recipient prioritizes the content of an in-reply-to over the like-of property. from what i've gathered, implementations differ on what takes precedence
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tantek ah I think I figured it out. the "likes " text should only go in p-summary for those that don't even interpret likes
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tantek do they? I mean which implementations do what?
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aaronpk this came up recently, can't remember where exactly
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aaronpk we were comparing webmention implementations, some people have a bunch of if/then blocks that check for specific properties, but not everyone does it in the same order
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tantek that's why I'm documenting post-type-discovery
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tantek so we can converge on that
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tantek would appreciate any info on divergences and reasoning if any
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aaronpk here's an example from that Slack of reacji which are definitely not "likes": https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/592/23797219755_0481616c3c_z.jpg
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aaronpk (and yes I got permission to screenshot that)
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tantek one consideration for me is that I have no desire to POSSE reacji
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tantek because on Twitter they're kind of like noise, and frankly no one parses out the @-reply anyway so they don't work
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tantek oh boy this is going to be a hack
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tantek hey ben_thatmustbeme what no webmention form on your permalinks? ;)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: do you support webmention updates?
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tantek this should work to give you a reacji (p-content is a single emoji) http://tantek.com/2015/350/f1
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tantek and it's an in-reply-to
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: see also how I'm "summarizing" my reacji to your post - in a way that I can post it in-stream and hopefully have it make sense out of context
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tantek e.g.
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tantek "🎁s ben.thatmustbe.me’s post"
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tantek is just happy he didn't break all his "like" presentation, including clustering with all the code that just got hacked to make this work.
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tantek.com edited /reacji (+506) "/* IndieWeb Reacji Posts */ add mine with a reacji+like post and reasoning, more prose" (view diff)
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@calum_ryan Back from HWC Brighton after delayed 2 hour journey! A few ideas for my talk + more people now implementing SSL successfully #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/677265570014896128)
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