2015-12-17 UTC
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# 00:35 tantek ben_thatmustbeme: 1) shorter, 2) emphasizes the primary "intention" 🎠by putting it first on the line, 3) reacji still feel different in meaning than "just" a reply even if they can be posted/displayed as a reply (as evidenced by you showing them differently than comments)
# 00:52 ben_thatmustbeme tantk, i did get it, but it got it as a like, i need to do some updates to swap the prference order
# 00:52 tantek ok cool. you have 1.5 hrs before demos at HWC SF ;)
# 00:52 Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: tantek, i did get it, but it got it as a like, i need to do some updates to swap the prference order
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# 02:40 tantek @andigalpern: my name is Andi Galpern, I'm a UX/UI/product designer, event organizer, design evangelist, content strategy, and marketing even
# 02:40 tantek @andigalpern: I was really inspired after attending IndieWebCamp SF that I went home and started writing and a blog and wiki tools
# 02:41 tantek @andigalpern: I want to be more open about my goals and what it is that I want to communicate on my site.
# 02:41 tantek @andigalpern: It's always to be responsible, I want the content to be available on any device.
# 02:41 Loqi gives tantek the content to be available on any device
# 02:42 tantek @andigalpern: my personal website is andigalpern.com and I have a company CascadeSF with 65,000 designers around the world, mostly in the SF Bay Area
# 02:43 tantek @andigalpern, this is a website (shows private URL) that I never finished. I want to do design and showcase all the talks the I've done, and blogging opinions and stuff.
# 02:43 tantek @andigalpern: I also have a blog which I just removed the theme
# 02:45 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: This is my second IndieWeb thing. I'm an anthropologist. I like people and culture and different world perspectives and how things are seen by humans.
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# 02:46 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: I like to do how-tos. I taught yoga for 5-6 years. I like to post about things for health.
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# 02:46 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: It's informational, and the things that have to do with me are reflective.
# 02:47 tantek @MarcCanter4Real: Everything you said to sounds like a blog post!
# 02:48 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: I use WordPress. I have a simple theme. But I'm very hands-on. I'm here to learn how to manipulate things and code.
# 02:48 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: I don't have a hit counter. Everything that people see is on Facebook. But it's separate from Facebook.
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# 02:49 tantek @andigalpern: I've seen someone do a separate life blog and work blog on their same domain.
# 02:49 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: I want a more communal area and my things.
# 02:49 Loqi gives tantek a more communal area and my things
# 02:50 tantek @Bryn_Wolf: I don't want to get caught up too much sharing my emotions too much because then it becomes a diary.
# 02:54 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: I installed two instances of WordPress on my own site for multiple purposes.
# 02:54 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: Both of them have the Social Plugin so both auto-post to Twitter and Facebook.
# 02:54 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: Both are at the same domain, at the front there is the blog.
# 02:55 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: And status updates are separate from the blog so I can post to Twitter.
# 02:55 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: One is for long writing, one is for quick things.
# 02:55 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: Here for example are my short notes / tweets - e.g. about Philips Hue
# 02:55 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: I host it here on my site and then POSSE it to Twitter.
# 02:56 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: I also have a server at home and want it to have the same data that I'm sharing here.
# 02:59 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: I got myself a Raspberry Pi zero computer.
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# 02:59 tantek @Johannes_Ernst: Imagine you have this thing and you want to setup a root password. It's really really complicated. So I posted about it.
# 02:59 andicascadesf <!— taking over notes -->
# 03:01 andicascadesf @Johannes You see the boot here, you can’t see the command line. If you can run the command on Docker.
# 03:01 andicascadesf @johannes the end product is that you can run the system without installing it.
# 03:01 andicascadesf @johannes_Ernst You can run Docker on Rasberry Pie.
# 03:02 andicascadesf And here’s another alternative. It
# 03:02 andicascadesf It’s great for evaulation purposes and great for testing purposes.
# 03:02 andicascadesf My name is Lev. Twitter handle is “@levlaz"
# 03:03 andicascadesf @levlaz I work for circleci, which is a continuous integration company. I’ve had this blog for a long time.
# 03:03 andicascadesf @levlaz It’s very simple, it’s WordPress. I usually blog about random things, projects that I’m working on and things that are interesting.
# 03:04 andicascadesf One thing to note is that I do use a lot of notess and tags on WordPress. I usually categorize things on one level.
# 03:04 andicascadesf I recently started a project called “braindump” which is a note taking tool.
# 03:04 andicascadesf @levlaz I created my own structure for tags
# 03:05 andicascadesf @levlaz THe nice part about WordPress is that instead of having links to static pages, you can actually have links to tags.
# 03:05 andicascadesf @levlaz 3 weeks ago i released a project called “braindump” which is a notes platform, for multiple people.
# 03:06 andicascadesf It’s a note taking tool, categorizing notes, mark down editor that makes it easy to format.
# 03:06 andicascadesf @johannes_Ernst “Its evernote in a web site”
# 03:07 andicascadesf @levlaz I want to integrate calendars, and events, in a perfect world, this page will show you a list of todo itesm.
# 03:09 andicascadesf It’s just the javascript calls to the API and populate all of this.
# 03:13 andicascadesf @tantek I’ve gotten like, for some reason the last 2 weeks were ridiculously productive
# 03:14 andicascadesf At indie web camp, I tried to get 2 things done. I didn’t get them done completely but I got them partially figured out.
# 03:14 andicascadesf 1. better mobile design, full bleed edges.
# 03:14 andicascadesf (@tantek shows us an example of the web site with the photos taking up the full width of the screen)
# 03:15 andicascadesf @t “The other thing that I got done, the other thing I was working on, was “person tags."
# 03:15 andicascadesf 4 more days of hacking and I finally got person tags working on photos.
# 03:15 andicascadesf You can see that I actually tagged everyone in the photo, and if you look at the Facebook copy of hte photo, yes you can see the tags!
# 03:16 andicascadesf It shows people who are setup with Bridgy.
# 03:16 andicascadesf On the Facebook copy it uses their Facebook identity to tag them.
# 03:17 andicascadesf @t Just went to Orlando for Mozlando.
# 03:17 andicascadesf @t One of the things I did well there was take some video.
# 03:17 andicascadesf @t we went to the magic kingdom,
# 03:18 andicascadesf @t Got home after not sleeping for 36 hours, which is the worst time to code something, and also the best time to code something.
# 03:18 andicascadesf @t long story short –Â I decided to add videos to my site, and I added a video post.
# 03:18 andicascadesf @t I edited the video post, and manually posted on Twitter, because we don’t have a manual way to do that yet.
# 03:18 andicascadesf @t and Twitter doesn’t show it unless you got Javascript done.
# 03:18 andicascadesf @t now video is working on my site!
# 03:18 andicascadesf @andigalpern GO @T!
# 03:19 andicascadesf @t I use instagram client to post, then hot link it to my site
# 03:19 andicascadesf @t The great thing about this, is that it works across browsers and across mobile!
# 03:20 andicascadesf @t This is all HTML Â –Â there’s no Flash. It just works.
# 03:20 andicascadesf It works on Firefox, Safari, Chrome
# 03:20 andicascadesf @t I am serving it from Instagram servers.
# 03:20 andicascadesf @t One of the things I do, is when I post on Instagram then I copy and post it to Tumblr.
# 03:21 andicascadesf @t I have not figured out a way to store large amounts of data on my own site.
# 03:21 andicascadesf @t I know that Known does that.
# 03:21 andicascadesf @t Instead of trying to solve the back-end piece, I would get the front-end experience working. It’s just plumbing.
# 03:21 andicascadesf @t The last thing I’d like to discuss is “reacji"
# 03:21 andicascadesf It’s kind of like Slack.
# 03:22 andicascadesf “it lets just respond to anyone’s statement with an emoji"
# 03:22 andicascadesf Ben Roberts decided to add this to his own site. So if you reply to his site, it replies with Emoji.
# 03:23 andicascadesf @t picked the emoji. 2 poops, 1 smiley, 3 candles, and 1 present.
# 03:23 andicascadesf Ben Roberts decided to implement this feature that’s only in slack, so people could send him birthday wishes in emojis.
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# 03:24 andicascadesf @t I posted it once and it posted the copy on Twitter and on Facebook.
# 03:24 andicascadesf @t Because you signed up for bridgy.
# 03:25 andicascadesf @bryn_wolf because I signed up for Bridgy, it automatically tags me all the way through.
# 03:26 andicascadesf @t I’m here to tell you that if you want to do web video, you can do it, you can post it across browsers.
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# 06:31 bear ah - levaz (from the notes above) is a co-worker!
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# 06:54 [snarfed] bear++ for working at circleci. love it! we use it for both work and side projects (like bridgy)
# 06:54 bear let me know if you want into the osx beta ;)
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# 07:38 acegiak anyone else get super funny about wanting to post things on the day they happen?
# 07:38 acegiak like, if I can't post pictures of the thing that I did/attended/saw/whatever on the day they happened I'm often like "fine, I won't bother then, the record is ruined now"
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# 13:03 tantek !tell andicascadesf thank you for helping out with taking notes at the Homebrew Website Club meetup! :)
# 13:03 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 13:05 tantek I used to be very strict about posting photos strictly in the order they were taken
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# 15:22 ben_thatmustbeme well, whoever that is, their webmention was pending moderation since they didn't have a vouch link, so I just approved them
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# 15:53 aaronpk acegiak: I totally have that feeling but only for posting things to my main timeline. I have no problem posting batches of photos later on Flickr
# 15:54 kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: that's diplix, I don't know if he's on IRC much
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# 16:48 [aaronpk] Oh man I'm excited! Pebble just launched a firmware update which does sleep tracking on the watch without a separate app, and it writes the data to HealthKit! Now I can make an iOS app that reads the sleep data from HealthKit and posts it to my micropub endpoint!
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# 17:25 aaronpk are there new bridgy permalinks now that home page mentions work?
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# 17:26 [jonnybarnes] PHP 7.0.1 was released today, one of the bugs it fixed was a failure to compile on systems with 160 CPU cores!
# 17:27 aaronpk i just realized my streaming twitter search script which uses bridgy permalinks doesn't work for home page mentions becuase i can't craft the bridgy URL without a twitter URL to reply to
# 17:27 [jonnybarnes] does the wiki have a page where people list what languages/environments they use to make their websites?
# 17:28 aaronpk [jonnybarnes]: not explicitly, but you can probably find that either on people's user pages or on the project page for their software
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# 17:35 aaronpk hm does that only work for people who are bridgy users?
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# 17:39 aaronpk guess it needs to know what twitter credentials to use with the API
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# 18:58 aaronpk heh yeah. I'v ebeen going to ownyourgram.com to manually PESOS photos from instagram since the web hook is broken
# 18:58 aaronpk i think one of the web hooks worked so it ended up there twice
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# 19:28 tantek and yes as Kevinmarks indicates, sometimes my Flickr would fall behind months. Now I'm mixing it up a bit on IG / my site. Still mostly in order though.
# 19:31 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 19:31 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 19:31 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 19:33 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 19:44 tantek.com edited /Events (-397) "move 12-16 to past, remove possible IWC NYC, couldn't find a suitable venue and insufficient interest to merit travel. let's hack stuff instead!" (
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# 19:48 tantek now the question for 2016 for HWC - shall we start on the 5th or 12th? I ask because we may want to pick one or another depending on which every two weeks schedule collides with fewer official holidays
# 19:53 KevinMarks I just wrote a webmention issue instead of editing the page; wondering how that works now.
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# 19:54 aaronpk IMO it's easier to have discussions in github issues rather than in the wiki. so if it's something that needs working out, github is a good place for that
# 19:54 tantek KevinMarks: an issue is good because it easier to ask for something to be solved rather than solve it. and what aaronpk said.
# 19:54 tantek !tell gRegorLove now that 2016 is around the corner, and you're active creating important wiki pages ;) - could you take a look at potential HWC date schedules starting the 5th or the 12th and see which collides with fewer official US holidays?
# 19:54 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 19:56 tantek ben_thatmustbeme: have you implemented both sending & receiving Salmentions or just sending?
# 19:57 tantek.com edited /Salmentions (+0) "put Ben Roberts before me as co-editor since he has implemented more of Salmentions than I have (I'm here to help with the algorithm specese and such)" (
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# 19:59 gRegorLove tantek: Wednesday January 13th would be the next one following the two-week schedule. I don't think there's a holiday conflict.
# 19:59 Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: now that 2016 is around the corner, and you're active creating important wiki pages ;) - could you take a look at potential HWC date schedules starting the 5th or the 12th and see which collides with fewer official US holidays? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-17/line/1450382094824
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# 20:00 tantek gRegorLove: you're right. I meant 6th and 13th
# 20:01 tantek I wanted to check especially re: day before Thanksgiving, xmas, NYE etc.
# 20:06 tantek GWG - most airtraveled day of the year. Figured you of all people would know that. ;)
# 20:07 GWG Thanksgiving is not a big thing in Ireland
# 20:08 GWG Anyway, how are people coming with their pre-2016 goals?
# 20:09 gRegorLove tantek: Preference on shifting the dates forward, backward, or leave as-is and skip Thanksgiving week HWC?
# 20:09 Loqi petermolnar meant to say: Thanksgiving is US only, which is not really surprising
# 20:09 GWG Canadians celebrate Thanksgiving, just earlier
# 20:09 gRegorLove July 4 is a Monday, so no other major holiday conflicts I can see, regardless of HWC date choice
# 20:11 tantek somewhere I said something about person-tags but now I can't find it
# 20:12 tantek.com edited /Vouch (+0) "put aaronpk before me as co-editor since he has implemented more of Vouch than I have (concept, diagrams, algorithm specese are my contributions)" (
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# 20:12 GWG But I don't know if the project I'm struggling with will launch by then
# 20:13 KevinMarks hm, should I webmention people with the person tags in those notes posts?
# 20:13 tantek KevinMarks: I'm still not sure just being the author of a quote merits a person-tag
# 20:14 tantek what *would* I think merit a person tag is if you separately listed at the top the attendees / participants that you saw at the meeting by name/URL
# 20:14 tantek not just automatic based on some other semantic
# 20:15 tantek an explicit intention to tag someone by the author
# 20:15 aaronpk i've person-tagged people by them being the author of a quote
# 20:15 KevinMarks which is directly analogous to tagging them in a photo of them in the room
# 20:15 tantek automatically inferring citation -> person-tag is diluting the meaning of person-tag
# 20:16 tantek no that's different because they are in the photo, rather than "speaking" the photo
# 20:16 KevinMarks I'm not auto-inferring, noterlive is adding them because I am live-transcribing them
# 20:16 tantek you are citing them. then noterlive is auto-over-marking-them-up
# 20:17 tantek that's not where they are in the current markup
# 20:17 tantek their current reference is as the active speaker
# 20:17 tantek see above where I said what *would* I think merit
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# 20:18 tantek this is the same problem as why every use of a word is not a tag of that word
# 20:18 tantek another example: a definition of a word is not a tag of that word either
# 20:19 KevinMarks but my notes posts are records of events, and I am person-tagging them as contributors to that event
# 20:19 tantek if you had a section at the top saying "the following people participated in the discussion: a, b, c etc." those are the "in the thing" type person-tags
# 20:20 tantek "person-tagging them as contributors" <--- that's the problem
# 20:20 tantek if they're a contributor, you're already citing them
# 20:20 tantek if you had a section at the top saying "the following people were in the meetup" <-- that's the analogy to people being in a photo
# 20:21 KevinMarks there is a difference between one of my notes posts and, say, the web page for this channel
# 20:21 tantek a key indicator that your person-tagging them is incorrect is that you do it for every time you cite them
# 20:23 tantek there are sometimes people at the event (which would merit a person-tag) that don't say anything that you cite
# 20:24 tantek here's the thing, yes you should webmention them as being quoted, no they are not person-tags because you're typing their name in as a speaker, not as someone to tag. (and saying you're doing both proves my point of diluting the meaning of person-tag)
# 20:25 tantek from a UX perspective, their notifications should show
# 20:25 tantek not "Kevinmarks tagged you in his post" - because when they click through - visually it does not seem to convey being person-tagged, but rather, being quoted!
# 20:26 tantek from a UX perspective, it's pretty obvious you're abusing person-tags
# 20:28 tantek you're welcome to try to explain how the UX makes sense as I did above (showing they didn't make sense)
# 20:28 tantek simply saying "have a different view" doesn't really make an argument
# 20:30 aaronpk If i'm standing up talking at HWC I would definitely prefer my watch to show me notifications like "Kevinmarks quoted you in a post" instead of "Kevinmarks tagged you in a post" since they'd be blowing up my watch every couple seconds
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# 20:38 tantek GWG, have you blogged your 2016-01-01 launch commitment?
# 20:38 KevinMarks well, aaronpk, they will be doing that anyway as bridgy will be posse-ing the @ mentions on twitter
# 20:40 KevinMarks I meant I should send one webmention per speaker for the whole summary post
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# 20:44 [snarfed] ideally wm targets would only send notifs based on new/changed content, not per received wm, but maybe that's not common in practice yet
# 20:44 tantek snarfed, any pref / avail difference for HWC 2016? 01-06 vs 01-13?
# 20:44 tantek aaronpk - as Portland HWC host - appreciate your input in particular on this
# 20:46 tantek gRegorLove: let's give til EOD Friday (tomorrow) across timezones (PST) to settle on when to restart
# 20:46 tantek and then yes - would very much appreciate the template update and page creation!
# 20:49 KevinMarks does webmention say what to do if the target is linked to multiple times from the source?
# 20:54 tantek what do webmention receivers do if there are multiple instances of "target" in the "source"?
# 20:54 tantek what *should* webmention receivers do if there are multiple instances of "target" in the "source"?
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# 21:12 tantek you want the recipient of the webmention to *only* display the paragraph (as a comment) with the specific ID fragment that you're using in the source URL
# 21:13 tantek and then link to that paragraph within the context of your larger (perhaps article) post
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# 21:16 ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking when i get the UI cleaned up more, i'm going to convert all my likes in to reacji hearts
# 21:19 KevinMarks which may be part of what went wrong with pingbacks - their default model was a link within a long post, hence the crude excerpting
# 21:20 KevinMarks do the reacji work with my style tweets, or is the problem that bridgy doesn't send those?
# 21:21 snarfed honestly i'm not planning to work on that anytime soon, but i'd happily merge a PR if anyone else wants to!
# 21:23 snarfed (all these twitter features would be so much easier if they had API support for any new features since, oh, 2009 or so...but i'm not holding my breath :P)
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# 21:29 Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: my site doesn't handle reacji from twitter yet
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# 21:36 Jeena !tell tantek I'm not sure I will be back from the winter hollidays untill the dec 30
# 21:36 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 21:38 aaronpk from the script that's tapped in to the streaming API
# 21:40 snarfed true! sadly wouldn't work in this specific case though. they need it rendered as in-reply-to the quoted tweet, which bridgy/granary haven't implemented yet
# 21:41 ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks: you could but you would have to mark up a page to be the placeholder mf2 version of the tweet, like brid.gy does
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# 21:47 snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: cool! you're stripping leading @-mentions?
# 21:49 gRegorLove tantek: Makes sense. Added a third option and voted. I don't have much of a pref since I'm not attending an HWC currently :)
# 21:50 snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: so you also strip out the post link if it's in the content?
# 21:51 snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: it will. it now searches for links to your site and backfeeds them
# 21:52 snarfed yeah but probably won't work as reacji unless ben_thatmustbeme strips the post link
# 21:53 KevinMarks though the recycle for repost doesn't work as well - I need a shadow or something
# 21:53 gRegorLove tantek: Er, disregard. I can't do date-math today apparently :)
# 21:55 snarfed you could arguably extend reacji to single char mentions too
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# 21:56 aaronpk or possibly single words, so you could do polls :)
# 21:59 ben_thatmustbeme event lists a set of possible responses "attending" "not attending" "attending day 1 only" "attending day 2 only" "attending remotely"
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# 22:02 aaronpk I thought webmention.io was a bad name but yeah...
# 22:03 ben_thatmustbeme i would not want to use html field as that adds a bunch more complexity, and the text field shortens the url
# 22:04 snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: complexity is maybe an overstatement, right? you just need to strip tags
# 22:05 snarfed oh nm, you're right, you need to pull the url out of the link
# 22:05 ben_thatmustbeme i have to grab the href= value, and then assume that the value in the a tag is correct
# 22:05 voxpelli [snarfed]: new name and a proper domain name would be a good idea eventually, I agree :)
# 22:06 aaronpk I'm tempted to rename webmention.io to something more along the lines of the rest of the p3k names too
# 22:06 snarfed aaronpk: ooh i dunno, the webmention.io name is pretty well known, you'd lose that if you renamed
# 22:06 aaronpk yeah true. maybe i could keep the domain but give it a proper name
# 22:07 voxpelli snarfed: "A WebMention Endpoint" can't really be called a name I guess :P
# 22:10 aaronpk Telegraph is what i'm building to send webmentions
# 22:12 ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, heres an interesting question... now that i have the reacji (and it could be from a like or a reply) do i mark it up a p-comment or as p-like?
# 22:13 ben_thatmustbeme i guess reply and its up to the person processing it from me to determine if its a reacji or not
# 22:14 snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: there was a big irc discussion on this yesterday
# 22:15 snarfed one camp (tantek) interpreted reacji as "fancy likes," another (aaronpk) interpreted them as replies, and explicitly *not* likes
# 22:32 kylewm just found out webmention.herokuapp.com streams comment edits as well as new comments
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# 22:51 kylewm oh man, forgot about the all-seeing eye of Loqi again
# 22:52 aaronpk the only place you can hide from Loqi is on facebook
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