#indiewebcamp 2015-12-27

2015-12-27 UTC
gRegorLove_ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /poster_frame (+1124) "why, how, indieweb examples, silo examples, see also" (view diff)
Phyks_, brucewang and petermolnar_ joined the channel
#
Schnitz Not sure the order is relevant too, personally, but in a kinda improving things mindset, I'm taking the first proposed theme when reading from top to down and see what it does for me
mlncn joined the channel
#
Schnitz belp.audio -> using https://gist.github.com/tallus/43e09af02cbad58534a4 as mentioned in http://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr#Add_microformats_support
#
tantek that's a good approach
#
tantek and if you have problems with the first thing suggested we should fix the wiki!
#
Schnitz tantek: exactly, provide the fastest mose effective way always first
#
tantek !tell shaners I was trying to test your video poster frame support and noticed that it doesn't seem to work on your squirrel video, e.g. poster http://assets.veganstraightedge.com/videos/2013/5/31/backyard-squirrel-buddy.png returns an XML error "AccessDenied".
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
Schnitz interesting... nice Loqi feature right there
#
Loqi who, me?
#
Schnitz yep, you
#
tantek Schnitz, turns out that's all you really need for simple async comms. Not email.
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Schnitz Gotcha, smart. Really smart
#
tantek we've learned some lessons from things like twitter.
almereyda joined the channel
#
Schnitz OK its kinda safe to say that default tumblr indie web theme can be imrpoved
#
tantek I bet
#
tantek feel free to use mine and let me know what I can improve
#
tantek I don't think the author is here much
#
tantek (of the "tumblr indie web theme" you mention)
#
tantek.com edited /poster_frame (+664) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ note Shaners support for poster attribute since 2015-12-13, but poster image does not load currently :(" (view diff)
#
Schnitz tantek: yes I understand, to be honest I think its already and improvement it you put the code of YOUR theme at the exact spot where this one is now
#
Schnitz in the wiki for copy'n
#
tantek Schnitz I suppose I don't understand - where should I put the code of my theme?
#
Schnitz pasty readiness
#
Schnitz ok brb
#
Schnitz http://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr#Add_microformats_support
#
Schnitz second <p>: There is a indie web version theme already marked up that you can use. Click on the customize link and copy and paste this over the existing html.
#
tantek oh
#
Schnitz indie web version theme is the link to GITHUB
#
tantek so in a gist on github?
#
Schnitz YES
#
tantek sorry, sometimes I am slow with this stuff
#
Schnitz No you're not
#
Schnitz I could be wrong too, very likely perhaps
#
tantek lol did you just like my video on tumblr?
#
Schnitz Yes I did
#
Schnitz I was checking whether my like bubbles up into tantek.com
#
Schnitz then I figured it was disabled on your half
#
tantek I don't know if I get backfeed from Tumblr
#
tantek e.g. via Brid.gy
#
tantek ok I forget where to find my profile
#
tantek er, my template
#
Schnitz oh interesting, I thought you had control over this already and decided to not show it
#
Schnitz Can't you take your template out of tumblr?
#
Schnitz 'your' tumblr?
#
tantek not yet - lots of work to do: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#process_and_show_webmentions
#
tantek (for showing backfeed / webmentions)
#
tantek I'm logged into Tumblr and the UI always confuses me
#
tantek.com edited /video (+210) "see also poster frame" (view diff)
#
Schnitz tantek: OK true, its edit template, that big button in the middle
#
Schnitz understand, interesting the Falcon link
#
tantek when I login the there is no big button in the middle
#
tantek all the little icons in the top right
#
Schnitz yes, icon second to the far right, last option, I guess
#
tantek I have to dig for it every time since I use the Tumblr UI so rarely
#
aaronpk wow so now that I launched Telegraph, and updated my new site to use it to send webmentions, I'm struggling to remember what the thing I was working on before that was. That turned out to be a way bigger project than I anticipated.
#
tantek lightning bolt just shows "activity"
#
tantek aaronpk - stack overflow?
#
Schnitz BTW I used to own Stack Overflow
#
aaronpk something like that. or maybe my LRU cache got purged.
modem joined the channel
#
Schnitz the domain(s), just as an anecdote, 15 years ago
#
tantek no seriously how do I edit my Tumblr theme?
#
Schnitz oh ok, whats below activity?
#
tantek no more wrench icon
#
tantek huh
#
Schnitz Oh ok
#
Schnitz no no
#
Schnitz one next to lightning bold
#
Schnitz bolt
#
Schnitz the person symbol
#
Schnitz haha :-)
#
tantek they changed it again
#
Schnitz and then it should be the last option the dropdown
#
Schnitz Appearance?
#
Schnitz Yeah they change these things everywhere all the time, no matter where. Why Silos suck, also
#
tantek taking notes
#
Schnitz ok
#
tantek lol XHTML 1.0 Transitional. I don't need that
#
tantek xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en" don't need that
#
Schnitz hahaha
#
Schnitz kick it
#
Schnitz that spec has my name on it, I allow you to completely get rid off it at all times forever ...
#
Schnitz *giggle*
#
tantek so much time wasted arguing about XHTML and trying to make it work to appease the XML-heads who didn't actually care or ship anything anyway
#
tantek I just didn't know better at the time, and was trusting people supposedly more senior and knowledgable.
#
Schnitz oh tell me... I hindsight it made me soo sad
#
tantek So now I no longer trust anyone based on seniority or assertion of experience.
#
Schnitz 100% PURE AGREEMENT
#
tantek I ask the what is their website, and to show me on their website.
#
tantek If they can't ship their web ideas on their own website, they have no credibility with me.
#
Schnitz very much true
#
tantek I don't care what title they have at what company or how many white papers they have published.
#
Schnitz I hear you!
#
Schnitz BTW, thsi is logged .-)
#
Schnitz and thats a good thing
#
tantek I've made my opinion on this very clear in many forums including W3C Social Web
#
tantek as you might expect, some folks got really upset and decided to be negative and unhelpful
#
Schnitz No I don't want to rant or anything ... since eveything was a great gift in many ways... BUT, one is true, the who is fault question is very complex, lots of weird energies and situations, and to a certain extent its also OK to say that the W3C at that time was just naive as a operating entity, in allowing so many people with no filter to just decide on these things
#
tantek it based its operating culture on the bodies that came before it, IETF, ISO etc.
#
tantek assuming that everyone there was of good will and technical expertise
#
Schnitz tantek: Its your duty today to say this to people and piss them off, seriously
#
Schnitz I know, folks like Larry Masinter for example, THAT level of quality. Different story.
#
tantek Larry is his own person, we've had some good conversations
#
Schnitz I'm sure. He inspired me a lot. He always stuck to simple things.
#
tantek I'm not going to pick on anyone in particular because I am hopeful that anyone can become better behaved.
#
tantek.com edited /Tumblr (+220) "/* Add microformats support */ update instructions to edit a theme in Tumblr, update link to use my Tumblr theme gist since I have no idea what happened to the person who contributed the other one." (view diff)
#
Schnitz tantek: very wise. I myself was confused any made wrong decisions.
#
tantek Schnitz: ^^^ fixed
#
Schnitz OK going live in 10 secs
#
tantek whoa
#
tantek note the instructions I added! https://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr#Example_Tumblrs_with_microformats
#
Schnitz checking...
#
tantek (really just one more step)
#
Schnitz belp.audio
#
Schnitz much better
#
Schnitz maybe one bug
#
Schnitz look
#
Schnitz https://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr#Example_Tumblrs_with_microformats
#
Schnitz You're referencing the previous GitHub Theme under your tantek entry, no?
#
tantek oops
#
Schnitz The first link tho is correct
#
tantek.com edited /Tumblr (+0) "/* Example Tumblrs with microformats */ update indieweb tumblr theme link" (view diff)
#
tantek thanks!
#
Schnitz Ok thats a small improvement right there... if I read this Wiki page for the first coming from Tumblr, I'll be way more happy with your stylesheet / theme Tantek than the previous one, for sure
#
tantek great!
#
tantek small steps
#
Schnitz no prob, pleasure, anytime :-) of course...
#
Schnitz Sweet. Like my new tumblr already. Now back to some custom CSS...
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+201) "/* Videos */ poster frame support added!" (view diff)
#
tantek Schnitz glad to hear it!
#
Schnitz :-)
#
tantek I vaguely remember obsessing for like a day and ripping tons of things out of a Tumblr theme and simplifying it until it looked like what you see there
#
tantek now I just copy stuff there from other silos
#
tantek kind of like an incidental backup of sorts
#
tantek.com edited /Falcon (+57) "/* Videos */ cite post with first poster-frame upon posting" (view diff)
#
tantek poster frames are yet another way my site is now better than Twitter. Twitter video posts do not have nor allow you to pick an explicit /poster_frame. :)
#
Schnitz tantek: updated CSS for belp.audio ... just a really quick CSS hack, still lots of issues, will still fix em of course, but nice for just now
#
Schnitz no that CSS is a mess
#
Schnitz don't look at it
#
Schnitz haha
#
Schnitz ok now its ok for today
#
Schnitz tantek: Ah I ok... can I maybe improve your theme just slightly? U seem to have a relative URI reference for the RSS button or icon image at LINE 328 that will result in a broken image, just take that out: https://gist.github.com/tantek/ac27fb0f28c41c4fb2a7#file-indieweb-tumblr-theme-L328
#
@t Happy 12 years of XFN! (11d after the fact:) #microformats rel=me & #IndieAuth continue growing. Previously: http://tantek.com/2015/360/t3/happy-12-xfn-microformats-indieauth-growing (twitter.com/_/status/680920661859028994)
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek Schnitz, nice!
#
tantek yeah no need for an RSS button
#
Schnitz Oh yeah that was great fun very cool nice result ... I especially like the hovering permalink button, brings it very much to the point, good job Tantek
#
Schnitz 12 years of XHTML Friends Network ... jeeesus.
#
Schnitz I feel old
#
tantek lol
#
tantek hey I gotta feed that IndieAuth hashtag some actual relevant posts :)
#
tantek Schnitz: like I said, slow & steady
#
tantek gist updated :D
#
tantek ok, got my holiday coding done for the day
#
tantek now let's see what else I can commit to for 2016-01-01
#
tantek Hey Schnitz, now that you're on the wiki and IRC - start with creating your user page! https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify#Wikify_yourself
#
tantek I myself am considering adding RelMeAuth sign-in to my home page / site.
#
tantek As a building block towards enabling login-only viewable posts and other information like /contact
#
Schnitz That makes a lotta sense
#
Schnitz I will definitely do my user page
KevinMarks and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek !tell rhiaro you added IndieAuth support to your site recently - what kind of challenges did you run into, and what additional site-features have you built on top of it?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
#
Schnitz Needed to declare success first: http://belp.audio/post/136008775512/so-that-was-big-fun-and-great-success-for-the
#
Schnitz Now I'll check out my user page
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
belp.audio created /User:Belp.audio (+1077) "Created page with "Happy to be here, what a great project. Been involved with computers / networking for a little while, had my own FIDO mailbox in the early 90ies, hooked up to the Internet for th..."" (view diff)
#
Schnitz LOL I should go to bed, so many fucked up typos and twists... well
#
tantek it's a start!
#
tantek now add your h-card there too! like it says on https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify#Wikify_yourself
#
tantek and if you're really feeling eager, an "Itches" section too :)
#
belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio (+94) (view diff)
#
tantek yes! Indie record label!
#
Schnitz oh yeah right... wait.. http://www.discogs.com/label/672824-Schamoni-Musik
#
Schnitz and you listen to some stuff here if you're interested: https://soundcloud.com/schamoni-musik
#
Schnitz I'll add that to my page in a little while. I think I'm good for today :-)
gRegorLove_ joined the channel
#
Schnitz ALright, been great, thanks everyone, going to bed now, cu soon...
endi, KevinMarks and j12t joined the channel
#
@davidmead RT @t: Happy 12 years of XFN! (11d after the fact:) #microformats rel=me & #IndieAuth continue growing. Previously: http://tantek.com/2015/360/t3/happy-12-xfn-microformats-indieauth-growing (twitter.com/_/status/680945530483113984)
tantek, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks and j12t joined the channel
#
tantek what is reading?
#
Loqi To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents https://indiewebcamp.com/reading
#
tantek is looking at posting "read" posts
#
tantek perhaps starting as notes of a certain format
#
tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/t/status/680973554834247680
#
@t read "Arsebestos" in "Some Remarks" #hardcopy by @nealstephenson, while lying sideways. Then sat up to write this note (ttk.me t4ev4) (twitter.com/_/status/680973554834247680)
#
tantek.com edited /read (+636) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Tantek, experimenting with plaintext read posts" (view diff)
endi joined the channel
#
aaronpk what's the UI element called where typing text into a field and then a space turns the text you just typed into a little rectangle with an X? Facebook does this when typing a person's name into the text box
#
aaronpk I coulda sworn I had bookmarked a library that does that but I can't find it now
#
tantek though with the FB example, a space *does not* turn it into a little rectangle with an X - you have to pick it from the drop down menu
#
tantek but the general concept of text word(s) turning into little boxes with an x is useful - don't know a name for it
#
aaronpk ah I was mixing that up
#
aaronpk I was describing the one more often used with plain text tags
#
tantek I did see kylewm's person-tagging UI do that at IWC SF!
#
tantek it was really slick - so he must have some library for it, or he wrote one
#
tantek the type + auto-suggest menu + blockify pattern is interesting
#
aaronpk here is one, but I thought I saw a better one before http://sean.is/poppin/tags
#
tantek gmail does something similar in the To: and CC: etc. fields
#
aaronpk here's another one, "token input" http://loopj.com/jquery-tokeninput/
#
aaronpk and http://textextjs.com/
#
tantek token input is a good name
#
tantek ok aaronpk, you get to define this one, since you've likely thought about it
#
tantek what is token input?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "token input" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10AQ
iboxifoo joined the channel
#
aaronpk token input is a style of form element which allows the user to type free-form text (or select a term via autocomplete), and then turns each term into a new inline element, usually outlining the term and showing a little "x" which allows the user to delete the term by clicking it.
#
loqi.me created /token_input (+308) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-26/line/1451193127333 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronparecki.com edited /token_input (+139) (view diff)
iboxifoo, Leeky, edsu, KevinMarks and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] aaronpk: they're usually called contact chips, or [X] chips
#
[snarfed] pretty sure we had this same conversation a year or two ago :P
#
[snarfed] >
#
[snarfed] >
KevinMarks_, KevinMarks, wolftune, iboxifoo, KevinMarks__, Leeky, edsu and oddvar joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks “Though curation as a philosophy is a necessity, curation as a business is a bit of a Chimera.” @om http://om.co/2015/12/22/the-curation-conundrum/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/681043232977891328)
j12t, elf-pavlik, nitot and Leeky joined the channel
#
aaronpk pretty sure I've resigned to the fact that I'm going to lose my current reply context and repost presentation for v1 of my new site
#
GWG aaronpk: That gives you a chance to make things even better. (insert further encouragement here)
#
aaronpk hehe thanks
#
aaronpk yes I want to make sure I do that right when I do it, so I don't want to rush it
#
GWG I may have to compromise my 2016 goal for that reason
#
GWG I'm thinking I might solve my design problem by varying the design if there is no name set for the URL being responded to.
#
Schnitz HEy
#
Schnitz ok I need quick help
#
Schnitz on IndieWebCamp.com/User:Belp.audio I tried to upload this image http://www.schamoni.de/typo3temp/pics/ed17046d11.jpg and it didn't work
#
Schnitz I cannot remove the file: link now, and it looks kinda bogus
#
Schnitz Actually just to add this an image to my profile page
#
Schnitz I uploaded it to the wiki but it kinda never showed up
#
Schnitz If someone got just remove File:http://www.schamoni.de/typo3temp/pics/ed17046d11.jpg at https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Belp.audio that would be great, thanks
#
KartikPrabhu !tell Schnitz: if you want to put an image in the page from your own URL you can use the <img> tag. If you want to upload the image to the wiki then click on the link on top of your page and it will take you to an upload page for the image file
#
belp.audio uploaded /File:ed17046d11.jpg "BELP Avator Logo"
#
Schnitz thanks Kartik
#
Schnitz look
#
Schnitz https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Belp.audio
#
Schnitz BUT
#
Schnitz The red link still exists
#
Schnitz and I cannot get rid of it
#
Schnitz When I click edit on my personal page
#
Schnitz I don't see the file link in the Wike Edit Box
#
Schnitz I've upload it now, ok that works, and I can reference it, now you see the image. But the 'first' link trying to reach this image on the web cannot be deleted
#
Schnitz and I upload, I just get a new file reference like I just did
#
Schnitz aj
#
Schnitz ah
#
Schnitz now its gone
#
KartikPrabhu i just edited it, check if that is what you want
#
Schnitz yes yes
#
Schnitz thanks
#
Schnitz KartikPrabhu: Did I miss something when I tried to do it? Thanks so much!
#
KartikPrabhu there was an extra [[File: external URL]] line that I removed
#
Schnitz right, why couldn't I see it when hitting EDIT?
#
KartikPrabhu see diff here: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Belp.audio&diff=prev&oldid=24000
#
Schnitz yup
#
Schnitz in any case, thanks so much, that is what I wanted, perfect. yes.
#
KartikPrabhu you could revert my change and see if it shows up now ;)
#
Schnitz KartikPrabhu: Nice idea, no thank you, enough for now, need to head of for something else now :-)
#
KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: context?
#
petermolnar_ I like the wordpress tag input better: the input field is left alone, type things separated with commas and the token list appears below
#
petermolnar_ oh, wow, hexchat forgot to scroll
#
petermolnar_ this was a response to the things a "few" hours ago :)
#
petermolnar_ Loqi, are you here? You should be in #indiechat as well.
Loqi joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /token_input (+313) "add kylewm / Redwind example, see also" (view diff)
#
tantek looks like we lost Loqi around 2:05am PST
#
tantek.com edited /read (+223) "/* Tantek */ continue with "read" experiments" (view diff)
#
petermolnar_ can we backfill logs or is that not required?
#
tantek aaronpk is likely on it already
#
petermolnar_ ok
#
[shaners] tantek: my poster frame problem is an S3 permissions problem. I’ll fix it today.
#
Loqi [shaners]: tantek left you a message 18 hours, 53 minutes ago: I was trying to test your video poster frame support and noticed that it doesn't seem to work on your squirrel video, e.g. poster http://assets.veganstraightedge.com/videos/2013/5/31/backyard-squirrel-buddy.png returns an XML error "AccessDenied". http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-26/line/1451175593090
#
tantek.com edited /text-first_design (+304) "Pre-web examples" (view diff)
#
[shaners] And my poster frame support goes way further back then what you put on the wiki. That’s only when I added u-featured and fallback img. I’ll dig up the commit with first poster frame support. ...
#
tantek shaners, great. I posted the date that I had a citation for. such support could be measured by the later of: commit + first such video permalink.
#
tantek useful to have both citations of course
#
aaronpk oops. looks like Linode DDOS last night knocked Loqi out of the channel
#
tantek I want to believe that the indieweb can help solve this problem: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-21/news/ct-met-schmich-0321-20120321_1_stephen-colbert-fred-shapiro-google
#
tantek "We need an antidote for bad quotes
#
tantek In digital age, wording and attribution often wrong" - 2012-03-21 Mary Schmich
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /poster_frame (+1) "/* Shane Becker */" (view diff)
#
tantek who was it that was recently chatting about wanting to log more reviews or library related things to their own site, regarding books, books read, etc.
#
petermolnar.eu edited /text-first_design (+336) "/* Pre-web examples */" (view diff)
#
tantek !tell gRegorlove,tommorris,rhiaro,GWG you're either listed on https://indiewebcamp.com/read#IndieWeb_Examples or I remember you mentioning wanting to user your own site to track/publish what you've read. I've started experimenting more. Would be interested in discussing.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG tantek: What is on your mind?
#
tantek GWG, I decided spontaneously to start experimenting with "read" posts, and thus posted a couple: https://indiewebcamp.com/read#Tantek
#
GWG Where does the 'while lying sideways' come in?
#
tantek good question. I wrote what I was doing while reading
#
tantek in this case, it was relevant to the topic of the thing being read which was about the problems of sitting too much
#
tantek I'm approaching "read" posts from text-first design perspective
#
tantek before I try anything more fancy with presentation
#
[shaners] what is text-first?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "text-first" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10AR
#
[shaners] what is text-first design?
#
Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first_design
#
tantek text-first is /text-first_design
#
loqi.me created /text-first (+30) "prompted by [shaners] https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451244353224 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
[shaners] Beat me to it, T.
#
tantek shaners, you asked the question, of course I had to answer ;)
#
tantek (having used the term in-chat)
#
[shaners] :+1::skin-tone-2:
#
GWG Read is now a reserved term on my site. I didn't have it as one.
#
tantek what does that mean "reserved term on my site"?
nitot and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: I reserve terms for future use.
[aaronpk]1 joined the channel
#
[aaronpk]1 oookay I think I just fixed the issue with links appearing weird from Slack. Testing: http://aaronpk.com/ aaronpk.com
#
aaronpk woohoo
#
tantek nice
#
GWG The following ones are reserved for future use: Weather, Exercise, Travel, Check-in, Tag, RSVP, Event, Food, Drink, Follow...
#
GWG It generally means I intend on using them at some point
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] gwg: do you mean that you intend to use them in the URL or in your UI or both or neither?
#
tantek interesting GWG, have you added all those to your itches list on your User: page?
#
tantek says as he notes that he experimented with /read posts, and implemented /poster_frame support without either one being on his itches list first.
glennjones joined the channel
#
GWG shaners, both
#
tantek GWG, from aaronpk's experience, I'd suggest avoiding any use of post-types in the URL
#
GWG tantek: I should do that. But in my case, it is because I release the plugin to the WordPress repository and want to keep those words in case someone extends the plugin.
#
aaronpk indeed
#
GWG tantek: They aren't in my permalinks.
#
GWG They are archive pages
#
GWG /kind/reply, /kind/read, etc
#
GWG That is what I reserve them for
#
tantek even in my own experience, I find myself using the "notes" type for more and more different kinds of posts
#
GWG tantek: For me to do that, my Post UI would grow exponentially, and for anyone other than me, I'd have to hope they understood what those properties meant.
#
tantek GWG, not necessarily. There's no need to grow a post UI exponentially. Just means it's a more challenging UI design problem.
#
GWG Right now, I have a URL property that applies to in-reply-to, like-of, etc based on the type of post explicitly set. If I did implied types, I'd have to switch to separate properties for those examples.
jedahan joined the channel
#
tantek GWG, that makes sense.
#
tantek in my hasty storage design I have separate properties for each URL for each of those
#
tantek more of a 1:1 mapping of what eventually goes into the generated h-entry markup in post permalinks
#
GWG tantek: I store a 1:1 mapping, but my UI is not 1:1.
#
GWG The combination of the explicit post type or kind and the Post UI elements forms the properties saved.
#
GWG So, url + reply kin sets the value of url to in-reply-to.
gidzit joined the channel
#
GWG I switched to that from storing the properties in a custom format so if the post UI changed, they would be stored appropriately. Also good due the micropub plugin
#
tantek that makes sense
#
aaronpk does the mf2 parser use the "poster" attribute of the <video> tag?
#
aaronpk i'm trying to figure out where to put the poster image for my video
#
aaronpk i want it to show up as the "photo" attribute
#
aaronpk as a fallback for consumers/readers that don't support the video
glennjones and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] The trick is to use an img fallback for now, though we should support u- for a poster property too
#
Loqi [kevinmarks]: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 day, 19 hours ago: supporting reacji from quote tweets is not likely to happen, I have to start removing syndication urls (truncated in the exact same way twitter does with uses the '...' single character) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-25/line/1451092795051
brandonrozek joined the channel
#
aaronpk okay. that's good enough for now.
#
[shaners] aaronpk: kevinmarks: I’ve got a fallback img but I’d like the mf2 parsers to look at that attr too
#
brandonrozek Hello! I create a little userscript that creates a vCard based on the representative h-card of the page: https://gist.github.com/brandonrozek/e0153b2733e947fa9c87 post: https://brandonrozek.com/2015/12/creating-vcards-from-h-cards/
#
aaronpk brandonrozek: that's neat!
#
aaronpk you should post it to IndieNews! :-) http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en
#
brandonrozek Will do :)
#
tantek brandonrozek: welcome and while you're here, add yourself to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people !
#
tantek is braindumping some thoughts on /read posts
catsup joined the channel
#
aaronpk is churning through rendering different kinds of posts now
#
aaronpk just finished video
#
tantek nice. do you have poster frame support for your video posts?
#
aaronpk yep!
#
tantek ooh! another one
#
aaronpk and now my mf2 for the list view and permalink view both have both properties. that's not working properly on my current site.
#
tantek do you provide the poster frame as a fallback <img> inside the <video> as well? (I don't know the right answer)
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk it's outside the video tag right now
#
aaronpk and has display:none
#
tantek ew
#
tantek why?
#
aaronpk acutally i should just change that to an <a> tag with no text
#
tantek !!!
#
aaronpk because there's nowhere to show the poster frame when the video tag is showing
#
tantek there's no need, that's the point
#
tantek.com edited /read (+2232) "brainstorming, tantek thoughts, emoji possibilities for "read" posts" (view diff)
gRegorLove_ and catsup joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /📄 (-2) "more like an article" (view diff)
glennjones joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /article (+0) "use page emoji instead" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /📖 (-3) "open book - read post" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+20) "/* Kinds of Posts */ update article icon, add "read" posts" (view diff)
#
gRegorLove What is read?
#
Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 29 minutes ago: you're either listed on https://indiewebcamp.com/read#IndieWeb_Examples or I remember you mentioning wanting to user your own site to track/publish what you've read. I've started experimenting more. Would be interested in discussing. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451244187284
#
Loqi To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents https://indiewebcamp.com/read
#
tantek hmm - that should be expanded ...
#
tantek.com edited /read (+94) "📖 emojicon" (view diff)
#
tantek "One could create a read post to indicate the target has been read. " - one could say there are at least a few of us doing that now
#
tantek.com edited /read (+29) "update dfn, not just one could, but, we are" (view diff)
#
tantek what is a read post?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "read post" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10AT
#
tantek A read post is /read
#
loqi.me created /read_post (+17) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451249808950 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
gRegorLove tantek: Sure, I'm generally interested in /read. Haven't thought about or worked on it in a while though.
#
tantek what is a read post?
#
Loqi To read or reading is the act of viewing and interpreting posts or other documents; on the IndieWeb, a read post expresses that something has been read, like a book or section thereof https://indiewebcamp.com/read_post
#
GWG Someone is filing issues against Post Kinds
#
GWG Whoo!
#
GWG I love it when people have comments
#
tantek gRegorLove: I started experimenting with "read" posts as I started doing some reading during the holiday. And then I documented what I thought of as a result. https://indiewebcamp.com/read#Tantek
#
tantek gRegorLove: definitely interested in your feedback / thoughts as well! Have you been posting any more "read" posts recently?
glennjones joined the channel
#
gRegorLove I posted a few for that Harry Potter book back in January, that's all.
#
tantek did you finish it?
#
tantek did you post a special "read" post when you finished it?
#
gRegorLove looks
#
gRegorLove Yes, but no different format than the other posts.
#
gRegorLove Start: http://gregorlove.com/2015/01/on-page-0-of-309-1/
#
gRegorLove Finish: http://gregorlove.com/2015/02/on-page-309-of-309-1/
#
gRegorLove I would prefer "Started reading" and "Finished reading"
#
tantek both those make sense
#
tantek I'm using just "read" to indicate both started and finished in close proximity
#
gRegorLove I would probably work on a posting UI as my next step; I had to manually craft those, which is why I haven't done much more.
#
tantek right, mine are manual as well
#
tantek manual experimenting is a good way to figure out text-first design however
#
tantek can you add both of those examples to https://indiewebcamp.com/read#gRegor_Morrill ?
#
gRegorLove Sure. One is linked in the date already
#
gRegorLove I'll split out the links instead of linking the date
brandonrozek joined the channel
#
brandonrozek Hmm, I'm having trouble adding my post to indienews, it comes back with an error saying that I don't have an h-entry on the page.
#
brandonrozek Though Shrewdness recognizes my h-entry. I'm confused
#
aaronpk that's odd! what's the link?
#
gregorlove.com edited /read (+165) "/* gRegor Morrill */ More links, formatting" (view diff)
#
brandonrozek https://brandonrozek.com/2015/12/creating-vcards-from-h-cards/
#
GWG tantek: Have a look at this...
#
GWG tantek: https://github.com/davidized/wp-indieweb-post-kinds-read/blob/master/post-kind-read.php
#
GWG Just found it.
#
GWG This is why I reserve words.
#
aaronpk brandonrozek: oh I think it's because the h-entry is a child of the h-card
#
aaronpk so it makes it look like the h-card is the main thing at that URL
#
aaronpk also *sigh* pin13.net can't read the page because it doesn't recognize the SSL cert root
#
aaronpk I really need to move that to the new server
#
brandonrozek Oh okay, I'll have to change that then
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] doesn't tantek also do that?
glennjones joined the channel
#
[snarfed] with h-feed at least
#
aaronpk on his home page yeah
#
aaronpk but this is a post permalink
#
aaronpk it makes sense on the home page because it makes it look like the main object at the home page is the h-card, which is accurate
#
[snarfed] cool
#
[snarfed] at long as this is in some spec or documented algorithm
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: https://brandonrozek.com/2015/12/creating-vcards-from-h-cards/ http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/brandonrozek.com/2015/12/creating-vcards-from-h-cards/
edsu, modem, caco, glennjones and Pierre-O1 joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk: do you post /read posts when you start, or in the middle of, or finish reading a book (or other things) ?
#
tantek.com edited /read (+20) "tommorris's book checkin prototype is brainstorming (and design screenshots are a good thing!)" (view diff)
nitot joined the channel
#
aaronpk tantek: nope, nothing like that right now
#
tantek anywhere on the itches horizon? or more in the don't care for now category?
#
aaronpk I don't often read books where I'd want to track them that way
#
Schnitz is back
#
tantek and there was much rejoicing ;)
#
gRegorLove yayy
#
Loqi does a happy dance!
#
tantek reviews 2015-01-01 commitments
#
GWG I'd want to track my reading of a book partially the way I'd want to share an article and partially to see what I had read(personal reasons)
#
GWG So, for me, completion is the thing I'd be tracking.
#
tantek same here
#
tantek (so far)
#
aaronpk time to design my new RSVP posts
glennjones joined the channel
#
tantek !tell bret hey bret did you get this working and are you still using it? http://bret.io/2014/12/20/goal-to-get-photo-ho/
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
mlncn joined the channel
#
GWG aaronpk: Do you have mockups?
#
GWG I'm trying to tackle that problem too, and I always like inspiration from others.
#
aaronpk i can post screenshots
#
aaronpk i'm using semantic-ui.com thanks to andigalpern's suggestion so I am using some of their UI elements since it makes it quicker for me
#
GWG Interesting
#
Schnitz is still working on his stylesheet... getting there...
#
tantek !tell ben_thatmustbeme are you still owningyourcheckins? Last one I see on https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin is from 2015-01-10 (per https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/12/18/1/ )
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
Schnitz Tantek: did you yourself write the CSS for the tumblr template from scratch or did you take it from somewhere else?
#
tantek I probably just modded it a little from somewhere else
#
tantek !tell snarfed how has your checkin frequency been for 2015 vs 2014? Wondering about how well https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow has worked out. Do you have a "checkins" archive page?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek and finished reviewing latest evidence (or not) of last year's commitments still going strong (or not).
#
tantek Overall it looks pretty good. Just a few that seem to be down (or lost), and a few more with open questions (as asked above).
#
snarfed tantek: it's worked out well! no dedicated archive section for checkins though
#
Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: how has your checkin frequency been for 2015 vs 2014? Wondering about how well https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow has worked out. Do you have a "checkins" archive page? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451255221653
#
snarfed (would be on or near https://snarfed.org/responses if i did)
#
tantek snarfed: any off-the-cuff estimate of # of checkins this year vs. last?
#
snarfed checkin frequency is still low
#
snarfed i just don't post often in general
#
tantek your hope was that more automation would increase the frequency
#
tantek curious if it was insufficient automation, or you stopped caring about checkins, or ... ?
#
snarfed lightly yes, somewhat off the cuff. wasn't a high priority
#
tantek but presumably your updated checkin flow still works?
#
snarfed yup!
#
tantek great!
#
snarfed most recent is https://snarfed.org/2015-12-05_16411
#
tantek nice!
#
tantek that's pretty sweet - likes backfed from three different silos!
#
Schnitz is seriously considering writing a indie web tumblr template from scratch...
#
Schnitz I'm a bit overwhelmed by the heady usage of absolute size values as pixels in this CSS
#
tantek Schnitz, perhaps before that, start an "Itches" section on your User: page
#
Schnitz Yup.
#
tantek per https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify#Wikify_yourself
#
tantek and get an h-card up on your user: page too - unless you're waiting for someone else to add it ;)
#
KevinMarks_ Schnitz: did you see silo.pub will post to tumblr with micropub?
#
@t Reviewing #indieweb 2015-001 commitments, found all but 3! @_pius @davidpeach1 @haxor could you check yours: http://tantek.com/2015/361/t1/reviewing-indieweb-2015-commitments (twitter.com/_/status/681244289435750400)
#
belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio (+1559) "/* Happy to be here, what a great project. */" (view diff)
#
Schnitz KevinMarks_: Nope, not yet, thanks for that
#
Schnitz https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Belp.audio#Itches
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
Schnitz tantek: h_card is coming next... had to clean up the CSS mess in the tumblr template first, or like stopped doing so now 'cos its kinda making rethink everything, so leaving this for now
#
tantek yup
#
Schnitz tantek: you know, you can make money with tumblr templates
#
snarfed dozens, maybe hundreds of dollars!
#
snarfed :P
#
tantek Schnitz: yeah? perhaps you can add that to https://indiewebcamp.com/business-models !
#
Schnitz No seriously, I'm thinking on writing on and calling it 'Non Evil' or so and charging for it, because marketing reasons
#
Schnitz not because I want money
#
@ShirlLacsamana RT @t: Reviewing #indieweb 2015-001 commitments, found all but 3! @_pius @davidpeach1 @haxor could you check yours: http://tantek.com/2015/361/t1/reviewing-indieweb-2015-commitments (twitter.com/_/status/681245892683378688)
nitot joined the channel
#
Schnitz psychologically people will take this more seriously when it costs something
#
Schnitz *those* people at least, not *us*
#
snarfed eh. maybe. i suspet it's not that simple any more. especially for consumer internet software, which people now generally expect to be free
#
snarfed e.g. the silos themselves
#
Schnitz snarfed: that true, but inside tumblr, this is like 'design'... like furniture? People 'buy themselves' an expensive chair, just to feel good. Similar with Templates
#
snarfed sure! some people may well buy your theme and feel good. i just doubt it will have much impact on making indieweb seem more "serious," though. and it will definitely mean way fewer people actually use your theme.
#
Schnitz snarfed: the theme will be avail as well on GITHUB and this Wiki
#
Schnitz I you know how to copy'n'paste markup, you get it for free
#
Schnitz IF
#
snarfed huh. so you'd only charge for it in tumblr's store, or something?
#
Schnitz Exactly
#
snarfed up to you!
#
Schnitz and make the controls all work so don't have to code
#
Schnitz like those fancy color settings etc. inside tumblr template editor
#
snarfed we've avoided charging for bridgy so far :P https://brid.gy/about#cost
#
Schnitz snarfed: thats a good thing
#
snarfed but there's no obvious store to sell it in, so there's that
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronpk I only feel comfortable charging for something if I wouldn't mind paying for it myself
#
tantek hmm - doesn't seem like publify got favorite/favourite/like support
#
Schnitz aaronpk: wrong thinking, as we move along, you do not represent the target audience (eventually)
#
aaronpk no, it's personal opinion. I don't want to make something for a target market that I am not part of.
#
Schnitz aaronpk: perfectly valid.
#
tantek gets popcorn and flips on archive logs view.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
aaronpk of course there's no problem with others making things for a market they aren't part of, that's just not something I am interested in doing
#
snarfed aaronpk: Schnitz: i can definitely commiserate with both sides. https://snarfed.org/2014-11-06_happy-1000th-bridgy#worked
#
Schnitz aaronpk: but thats something thats also a lesson learned for me, the masses are different. That needs to be respected and taken from there. At some point. Maybe not yet. For sure. You don't have to do this. But that may become important when Indie Web wants more outreach
#
aaronpk of course. see: http://indiewebcamp.com/generations
#
Schnitz right
#
snarfed aaronpk++ heh i was about to cite the same page
#
Loqi aaronpk has 42 karma
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] The way I’m building Homesteading is for both me right now and others soon.
#
[shaners] Nerds who can create a Heroku account and set some settings next. Non-nerds soonish after that.
#
tantek shaners - BTW did you see the whole discussion (months ago?) about how "homesteading" as a term upset a bunch of people due to historical usage vs american indians etc.?
#
tantek https://twitter.com/schock/status/609105871130378240
#
@schock @benwerd except for that whole settler colonialism and native genocide thing? #indieweb #dml2015 (twitter.com/_/status/609105871130378240)
#
tantek (see thread)
#
KartikPrabhu wow that is quite the important feedback!
#
KartikPrabhu was completely unaware of it
#
[shaners] I had not seen that.
#
[shaners] As I understand it, lower case h homesteading is the back to land subsistence living. Upper case H Homestead Act was the US government granting “free” land to settlers willing to go where was relatively undesirable by Europeans/Americans. (“Free” in that it was stolen from the indigenous peoples that lived here [the US] before white people.)
#
[shaners] The use of the word and the act of homesteading predates the Homestead Act.
#
[shaners] But maybe I need to start looking around for a different name. Before I really ship is easier than after.
glennjones joined the channel
#
@veganstraightedge I'm thinking about moving away from the name Homesteading for my #indieweb software because of its historical baggage. Any ideas for me? (twitter.com/_/status/681254149271367680)
#
KartikPrabhu what is projects?
#
Loqi These are projects you can use to get your site on the IndieWeb and improve your IndieWeb support https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
#
Schnitz how about 'Goodness'
#
Schnitz (dunno how to reply back to veganstraightedge thru Loqi
#
KartikPrabhu Schnitz: veganstraightedge is [shaners]
#
Schnitz ahh
#
Schnitz KartikPrabhu: thanks
#
Schnitz [shaners] call is Goodness
#
[shaners] Why?
#
[shaners] (I would be veganstraigthedge in here too, but Freenode doesn’t allow usernames that long)
#
Schnitz [shaners]: Oh.. ok, well you asked, right? Its just a good term, positive and such. Thats it. Maybe sticky. Maybe. Thats it. Just off top of my head. Nothing special.
#
[shaners] Ok. I’m looking for something that conjures what HS did for me. Self sufficiency, agency, autonomy, ownership, your own little space in the internet. Goodness is not that. Thanks though.
#
Schnitz ... alright I'm slowing packing my vinyls together, I have a DJ gig at 4 am, its nearly 1 am here now... need to get over to that location and start syncing with the energies there
#
Schnitz [shaners] no prob, anytime
#
Schnitz is away
acegiak and nitot joined the channel
#
aaronpk what color are reposts?
#
[shaners] aaronpk: huh?
#
aaronpk :)