#indiewebcamp 2015-12-31

2015-12-31 UTC
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@wpmakecomments [Core] Comment on WordPress 4.5: What’s on your Wishlist? by Daniele Scasciafratte https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/12/30/wordpress-4-5-whats-on-your-wishlist/#comment-28755 maybe a pingback vs webmention… (twitter.com/_/status/682351795788734464)
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GWG I'll go tackle that
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@sil @Rose0Window @NevilleMorley agreed. This is why I still write on my own site and have webmentions; because Medium is just the next Geocities (twitter.com/_/status/682360253787324416)
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KartikPrabhu what is text first
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Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first
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tantek lol at "Medium is just the next Geocities" that's both optimistic and harsh at the same time. It will be remarkable if Medium ever approaches even the same order of magnitude of the # of sites that Geocities has.
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Loqi tantek: [shaners] left you a message 1 hour, 31 minutes ago: Haven’t read this yet, but looks like you’ll be interested. Re: /read http://www.vox.com/2015/12/29/10634416/reading-list-books http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-30/line/1451517092101
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tantek shaners++ thanks! from the name of the article alone it sounds interesting. that's a lot of books!
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Loqi shaners has 15 karma
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tantek aaronpk: HWC PDX tonight?
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club (-419) "Brighton & Göteborg are off tonight" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: not tonight
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tantek can't say I disagree with this: "he found the internet stripped of its power to change the world and instead serving up a stream of pointless social trivia"
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tantek there does seem to be a lot more pointless social trivia since say 2006
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tantek aaronpk: no problem. let's try to decide 1-2 weeks ahead when we cancel for an evening if we can just to give folks that go regularly a heads-up.
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KartikPrabhu social media is just a bar room on a global scale. Most people talk trivia in IRL too
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aaronpk i'm hoping to be more consistent next year when bret can be a regular again too
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tantek The others (Brighton, Göteborg) are monthly-ish anyway, so there's less chance of that error
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's not my experience with the people I hang out with IRL
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KartikPrabhu yes biased sample ;)
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tantek I think "social media" has incentivized more shallow behaviors, that's the problem
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tantek s/behaviors/behaviors online
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I think "social media" has incentivized more shallow behaviors online, that's the problem
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tantek not to mention all the trolling, stalking etc.
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KartikPrabhu yes because social media is so "easy" there are less barriers to mindless trivia and yes trolling, stalking
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Schnitz every human nature is exposed some way. social media is self-fulfilling. we just didn't see it coming, thats all
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KartikPrabhu Schnitz: yes that is what I am trying to say :)
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Schnitz :-)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club () "(-737) - some" (view diff)
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Schnitz still shocked about human nature, apparently.
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bret aaronpk: 2015 was a weird year, between jobs and school :/
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message on 12/27 at 2:08pm: hey bret did you get this working and are you still using it? http://bret.io/2014/12/20/goal-to-get-photo-ho/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451254136050
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bret nope priorities shifted
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Schnitz but we had like 10 years to get used to it :-)
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@t Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club Highly recommend transit! The ... http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682366183119675397)
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Schnitz tantek: utopia/dystopia: how would you judge a society that would forbid certain types of social media behaviour to preserve a certain level of human quality?
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tantek the society doesn't need to forbid it - the sites need better mute/block/report tools and people will filter out abuse.
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tantek Like I can just ignore and choose not to participate in the cesspools of youtube/hackernews comments etc.
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Schnitz one could argue that those mute/block/report can only happen thru public pressure, ie. the society
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tantek no ie. public pressure = voting with your feet. don't use sites with crappy support for mute/block/report.
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tantek societies don't forbid things btw, governments do.
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KartikPrabhu which is why I never click on links to certain "forums"
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tantek big difference
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Schnitz tantek times multiples == a portion of the society
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KartikPrabhu and even if i get there through redirects I close tab immediately
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tantek Schnitz: meh - sounds like you're making a handwavy hypothetical argument, I'm out
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Schnitz alright
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tantek what does this have to do what the next thing you want to improve on your personal site?
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KartikPrabhu :D
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Schnitz tantek, I had a question, not judging
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@ayirpelle RT @t: Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club Highly recommend transit! The ... http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682367792927092737)
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Schnitz I don't know the answer myself
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tantek Schnitz: I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the question to personal sites
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Schnitz trying to preserve on-topic relevancy here?
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tantek in a world where silos shrink into legacy obscurity, I think your question is irrelevant
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tantek Schnitz: yes. for random chatter we have #indiechat :)
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Schnitz tantek said quote: "I think "social media" has incentivized more shallow behaviors, that's the problem" - the technologies we discuss here might change that, thru better options, as you say. My addtion was: were does the energy for change come from. From the inside (individual behavour) or maybe regulation. Hypothetical, maybe.
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tantek regulation is a trailing indicator
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tantek certainly for anything internet
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tantek and most of it has been really bad
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Schnitz of course!
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Schnitz so far
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tantek tons of it has to be fought
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Schnitz I know
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Schnitz I'm not advocating it per se just because I mention it
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tantek I'm saying it's not even worth a "maybe"
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tantek we have to create the web we want
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tantek any regulation is more than likely to screw it up than help it in any way
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Schnitz the maybe part, to be precise, would be outside our control
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Schnitz not 'us' maybe wanting regulation
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tantek Schnitz: the only chance we have is to innovate faster than the regulation writers can produce randomness that hurts the internet. it's when we stand still that we get screwed.
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Schnitz good point. I agree with you, fully
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Schnitz TBH the one thing I might add, is that you fully rely on viral forces for the good thing to spread. Like better technologies win over less perfect technologies. A better social media system wins over the less functional own. This is kinda darwinistic. I might add its not just government regulation, but my feeling is that there is something chaotic or random with adoption processes, that you...
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Schnitz ...cannot really apply logic and therefore any predictability. You might want to enforce things at some point. Whatever that may be. I don't mean stupid laws or so. But leaving everything to natural forces, I'm skeptical
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tantek being skeptical is good. the data we do have is that laws regarding the internet are nearly all bad, ergo, we should avoid them and out-innovate them as much as possible.
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Schnitz that for sure, I didn't mean laws right now at all
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tantek nor in any forseeable future
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KartikPrabhu legislation moves slower than technology
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tantek it's pretty much pointless to dicuss them
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tantek except to fight them
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tantek and overturn them
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Schnitz same also in the future, not what I was getting at
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Schnitz yeah 100%!
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Schnitz ok can I give an example or shall I move to chitchat for that, its a metaphor, r u interested? Don't have to say yes :-)
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tantek a metaphor is not an example
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Schnitz jesus
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tantek so no, not really interested
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Schnitz :_)
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Schnitz ok nevermind
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tantek right, when you're actually building and iterating, most of these kinds of discussions are a waste of precious time, opportunity cost for when you could be actually moving the future forward
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Schnitz I was really not trying to advocate government regulations, thats all!
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Schnitz tantek: as you see I shut up, declaring full agreement with what you say... your statement: ""I think "social media" has incentivized more shallow behaviors, that's the problem"" was just both interesting and controversial, and got me thinking, thats all
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tantek yeah - it has me thinking too. I don't have an answer. And it makes me uncomfortable to have to point out a problem without a good question or suggestion about it. Still, even worse would be denying it.
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tantek I want to believe we can do better with the indieweb, with our own websites.
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Schnitz We can!
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Schnitz I believe in that too
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Schnitz I believe that its OK and important to believe that, in the first place
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tantek I don't know how we do it on a macro scale. All I know how to do now is to change it on a micro scale on my own site, and hope that leads to figuring out broader solutions.
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Schnitz thank you tantek, no you really touch what I was getting at, thank you so much
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Schnitz and I don't have the answer too (of course not)
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Schnitz and its to an extent useless to discuss - fully admitted
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Schnitz still I do think about these forces
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Schnitz just myself
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Schnitz :-)
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tantek interesting /silo-quit promise in advance, not on a time, but on an event: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/kylie-jenner-plans-to-leave-instagram-once-she-has-a-kid-w160560
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Schnitz Haha :-)
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+438) "Future silo quitters / Kylie Jenner" (view diff)
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Schnitz lol
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kylewm what's the difference between /read and /h-review? could one post subsume both?
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tantek kylewm: /read is just about the reading of a book (or article etc.). Whereas an h-review is actual commentary, evaluation, rating etc. about that "experience"
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tantek presumably a smart e-reader (Kindle?) could auto-post a /read post for you once you flipped past the last page
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tantek the very second you finished a book :)
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tantek what is delicious library?
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Loqi Delicious Library is https://delicious-monster.com, an application for keeping inventory of your stuff with minor emphasis on sharing with friends https://indiewebcamp.com/Delicious_Library
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Schnitz interesting
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@kevinmarks RT @t: Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club Highly recommend transit! The ... http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682384241611673600)
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kylewm tantek and I discussed face-to-face 1) goodreads model smushes read/reviewed together 2) this is probably not optimal design on their part
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KartikPrabhu a post can be both a /read and a /review what's the problem? Just like a note can be a reply with a u-photo or something
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@alenevince RT t: Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club Highly recommend transit! The ... http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682388023678484480)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: ah but then is it an h-entry or an h-review? both?
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KartikPrabhu it could be both
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KartikPrabhu anyway i don't have /read or /review posts so...
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kylewm also we (re-)realized that bridgy's posse-post-discovery doesn't understand tantek.com
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kylewm because he has his h-feed inside an h-card
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: welcoem to homebrew website club sf - the last of the year (twitter.com/_/status/682392413940350976)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: What I got built since last time is person tagging on my site, with POSSE to twitter and facebook (twitter.com/_/status/682392542294458368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I can tag someone in a photo on my site, and some of them make it over to facebook via brid.gy http://tantek.com/2015/350/t2/seasons-greetings-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/682392796649680897)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we can only map through tags of other people who have signed up for brid.gy as facebook give app specific userids (twitter.com/_/status/682393028342984704)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I tag people with their official external facebook URLs but even that facebook won't map through (twitter.com/_/status/682393443503587328)
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snarfed hi to everyone at hwc tonight! wish i could have made it tonight. as a consolation gift, i'm deploying bridgy publish twitter multi-photo support in a minute or two :P
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KartikPrabhu neato!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: you can tag people in any post - it's not just a mention - the person is in this photo (twitter.com/_/status/682394276689477632)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I person-tag people I quote in transcripts like this, as I see them as being in the room (twitter.com/_/status/682394416540200960)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I got poster images on videos working, which I POSSE to facebook and twitter too - the poster isn't the first frame (twitter.com/_/status/682394578205425664)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: twitter shows my video with ugly black bars, and facebook doesn't show it without javascript (twitter.com/_/status/682394931961434112)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I feel like I am now presenting posts better than the silos do, especially for videos (twitter.com/_/status/682395119228694528)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Darius got his new site up at https://dariusdunlap.com/ on Boxing Day (twitter.com/_/status/682396069339201536)
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@msgbimathbubble Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682396909521231872)
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@msgbimathbubble events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/682397166304911360)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: Darius got his new site up at https://dariusdunlap.com/ on Boxing Day (twitter.com/_/status/682397368508088320)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @DickHardt: what is the purpose of indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/682397636658368512)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: to post content on their own sites with as much or better quality as the silos do (twitter.com/_/status/682397766371401728)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: as more people start doing it, and share tools for doing it it makes more sense (twitter.com/_/status/682397860315410433)
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@sagebiel Last Homebrew Website Club of 2015 TONIGHT @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website http://tantek.com/2015/364/t4/homebrew-website-club-tonight-mozsf (twitter.com/_/status/682397936400109569)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I've made the mobile view of my photos full-bleed on my own site like instagram, so it looks better than fb and twitter (twitter.com/_/status/682398191166320640)
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@sagebiel events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/682398192944701441)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I wanted to add book reviews to my site and POSSE those to http://www.goodreads.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/682398350101053440)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: so to do that I added goodreads support to https://silo.pub/ so I can post to goodreads with micropub (twitter.com/_/status/682398458146361345)
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@ChrisAldrich RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kylewmahan: so to do that I added goodreads support to https://silo.pub/ so I can post to goodreads with m… (twitter.com/_/status/682398601901961216)
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tantek snarfed++ awesome re: multi-photo POSSE to Twitter support!
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Loqi snarfed has 184 karma
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tantek can't wait to test that!
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@ChrisAldrich RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kylewmahan: I wanted to add book reviews to my site and POSSE those to http://www.goodreads.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/682398658164318208)
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@dap6000 But I _can_ drink wine and read IndieWeb wiki pages at the same time. http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (twitter.com/_/status/682399072712560640)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I want to publish a new review, so I do that here and hit publish and it is POSSEd to goodreads asynchronously (twitter.com/_/status/682399537906987008)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: the micropub edit standard isn't stable yet so https://silo.pub/ doesn't pass it through (twitter.com/_/status/682399813560827905)
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tantek.com edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+179) "/* Tantek */ also poster frame support" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we had a resurgence of interest in "read" posts - examples of people started and finishing reading posts (twitter.com/_/status/682400358744887296)
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Schnitz are all those Loqi messages webmentions now getting routed thru?
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@lightcoin RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @DickHardt: what is the purpose of indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/682400578383773696)
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@lightcoin RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: to post content on their own sites with as much or better quality as the silos do (twitter.com/_/status/682400584750755840)
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kylewm withholds karma from snarfed until feature launches :)
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@lightcoin RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: as more people start doing it, and share tools for doing it it makes more sense (twitter.com/_/status/682400672013221888)
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kylewm Schnitz: those are Loqi pulling in tweets from the twitter API
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Schnitz kylewm: ah ok... bummer, I had high hopes aaronpk got the webmention relay into IRC to work, then my posts would show up too :-) I'm not on twitter. Thanks for letting me know!
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kylewm Schnitz: was it not working earlier? webmentions to the wiki should show up in here
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: (twitter.com/_/status/682402177151856640)
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Schnitz kylewm: actually no, he was working on it and I sent one in for testing and it never showed up and he said he didn't know what he broke that was it. Maybe he got it to work, no clue. I've sent another one that should show up anytime now.
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kylewm I'll try it
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Schnitz alright cool
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[snarfed] kylewm: (heh fair enough! it's deployed now)
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kylewm Schnitz: well, you're right it's broken :P at least we know it isn't Tumblr/Bridgy
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Schnitz kylewm: alright, thanks for checking / finding out :-)
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kylewm snarfed++ yay! :)
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Loqi snarfed has 185 karma
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@cryptocoinage RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @DickHardt: what is the purpose of indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/682405014707388416)
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@cryptocoinage RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: to post content on their own sites with as much or better quality as the silos do (twitter.com/_/status/682405041915834368)
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@cryptocoinage RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: as more people start doing it, and share tools for doing it it makes more sense (twitter.com/_/status/682405051931836416)
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kylewm !tell aaronpk kevinmarks and I get an error logging into ownyourgram using Known's indieauth implementation https://gist.github.com/kylewm/28415df2bf4875817d27
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@Hermetec RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @DickHardt: what is the purpose of indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/682407519323488257)
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@Hermetec RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: to post content on their own sites with as much or better quality as the silos do (twitter.com/_/status/682407535815442432)
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@Hermetec RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: as more people start doing it, and share tools for doing it it makes more sense (twitter.com/_/status/682407548058636288)
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kylewm just learned that Kevin pronounces svgur "savager"
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KartikPrabhu haha!
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-12-30.html #indieweb https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/682412538126991360/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/682412538126991360)
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@ChrisAldrich RT @kevinmarks: Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club at http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-12-30.html #indieweb https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/682412538126991360/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/682412681874272256)
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matrrix Ohhh there was an hwc tonight? :( I'll have to catch the next sf one
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GWG Okay, pushed update I've been working on to live. We'll see what happens
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aaronpk congrats!
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Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 2 hours, 1 minute ago: kevinmarks and I get an error logging into ownyourgram using Known's indieauth implementation https://gist.github.com/kylewm/28415df2bf4875817d27 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-30/line/1451533120485
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aaronpk hmm
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GWG !tell acegiak More updates, tell me how they go for you
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /venue (+561) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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www.hitono.info edited /projects (-60) "removed domain I am losing control of" (view diff)
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bear k, I
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petermolnar morning
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petermolnar !tell Schnitz if you want to experiment with "webmention relay into IRC" I have bitlbee server you can use bitlbee.afterdose.org 6667 (SSL)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar https://medium.com/@maradydd/on-port-80-d8d6d3443d9a - "Before everything moved to the web, how did you even find the door?" and this question I can't answer. We read and learnt I believe.
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GWG Hmm.. I knew that author. Small world
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petermolnar I really like the first few paragraph of that article, but the later Reddit-only thing should have been a different post
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@bilalghalib You never know: https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=accountsettings&passive=1209600&osid=1&continue=https://www.google.com/settings/general-light&followup=https://www.google.com/settings/general-light #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/682540797078695936)
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GWG The irony is that the author and I used to hang out in a Web based chat room in the late 90s
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belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio () "(-766) /* Itches */" (view diff)
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Schnitz petermolnar: thanks for the link
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Loqi Schnitz: petermolnar left you a message 4 hours, 16 minutes ago: if you want to experiment with "webmention relay into IRC" I have bitlbee server you can use bitlbee.afterdose.org 6667 (SSL) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-31/line/1451554233060
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petermolnar yw
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belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio (+157) "/* Indie Web & SoundCloud */" (view diff)
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belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio/MyTumblr (+362) "/* BELP's User Experience with Tumblr & The Indie Web */" (view diff)
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belp.audio uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:webmention tumblr.png]]""
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belp.audio uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:webmention tumblr kartik.png]]""
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Loqi [mention] IndieHosters commented 'The new blog! 2 min read ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog)
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Loqi [mention] IndieHosters commented 'The new blog! 2 min read ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog)
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Loqi [mention] IndieHosters commented 'The new blog! 2 min read ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/rss (https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog)
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Loqi [mention] IndieHosters commented 'The new blog! 2 min read ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/repost (https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog)
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Loqi [mention] IndieHosters commented 'The new blog! 2 min read ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/tag (https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog)
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Pierre-O Oops sorry for the spam Loqi :)
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Loqi grins profusely
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@tedcurran Matt: The Changing #Web http://ma.tt/?p=45728 #openweb #indieweb #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/682582702378348544)
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Schnitz Pierre-O: wow!
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Schnitz seems like webmention to IRC is working again
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Schnitz congrats on the new blog!
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Pierre-O Schnitz: hehe, apparently :)
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aaronpk oh hey!
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aaronpk well that's neat. I didn't change anything after the first fix I did yesterday
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Schnitz Pierre-O: how do you use webmentions in your new blog when someone points to you? I'd like to post https://blog.indie.host/2015/the-new-blog to my new web friendly tumblr blog, you should then automatically receive a webmention via bridgy, just curious how Known / Your blog makes use of this, whether it will show up as a mention or so
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+119) "next HWC is 2016-01-13, let's do this." (view diff)
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belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio/MyTumblr (+774) "/* BELP's User Experience with Tumblr & The Indie Web */" (view diff)
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rhiaro aaronpk: what do your mp clients do if they find more than one endpoint?
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rhiaro goes to check the spec
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 12/26 at 5:33pm: you added IndieAuth support to your site recently - what kind of challenges did you run into, and what additional site-features have you built on top of it? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-26/line/1451180000947
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Loqi rhiaro: tantek left you a message on 12/27 at 11:23am: you're either listed on https://indiewebcamp.com/read#IndieWeb_Examples or I remember you mentioning wanting to user your own site to track/publish what you've read. I've started experimenting more. Would be interested in discussing. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-27/line/1451244187284
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+403) "seeing if I can show a preview without hurting the embedding thereof, and add two bims of 2016 links" (view diff)
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tantek !tell gRegorlove we are a go for 2016-01-13, can you help out with creating pages for 2016-1? Thanks! (also feel free to expand the HWC template embed to redlink the whole year)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek welcome back rhiaro!
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rhiaro Thanks.. I haven't been anywhere :p
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rhiaro is always here
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tantek just quiet then ;) (4 days since a !tell is quite a few for you)
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rhiaro Hmm re: indieauth.. There was one thing aaronpk helped me debug to do with htaccess.. Something silly
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rhiaro Otherwise it was straightforward
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rhiaro With indieauth.com of course, but it's now clear to me what to do to do it all myself
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tantek I'm ok delegating to indieauth.com for now
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tantek I may also use this feature as an excuse to upgrade my own relmeauth.php library
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rhiaro And additional functionality on it? Secret messages for some hardcoded list of people when they sign in, heh
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tantek because you know, anti-monoculture and all that
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rhiaro Figured I'll just fork indieauth.com and host my own at some point, rather than write any of the code myself
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tantek I figure there's some value in maintaining a separate relmeauth library
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rhiaro I might make some show/hide types of content controls for signed in people
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tantek I'm definitely thinking about "signed-in only content"
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rhiaro Not sure whether the value of signing in is to let you unflood or see more though
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rhiaro Chaos/noise by default, sign in to get value maybe..
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tantek content that is semi-public, that is, I won't store it any more securely, but won't show to non-signed in UAs like search engines etc.
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tantek filtering/unflooding is worth doing for everyone
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rhiaro Not necessarily..
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rhiaro Privacy through noise
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tantek sort-of - in practice I'm not sure that makes much to the sifters
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tantek s/much/much difference
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Loqi tantek meant to say: sort-of - in practice I'm not sure that makes much difference to the sifters
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rhiaro Could also play with levels of detail/granularity according to auth status
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rhiaro Eg for checkins
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tantek yes!
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tantek I'm also thinking of "sign-in only early viewing"
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tantek e.g. maybe I want all photos I post to show-up to non signed-in users 2 weeks after I've posted them (so random browsers can't use them to see where I am)
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rhiaro Just about finished my check-in client https://apps.rhiaro.co.uk/burrow. Talks as2 json rather than mp form-encoded though
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tantek could do similarly with check-in granularity
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tantek neat!
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rhiaro Finally will resume consistent vague checkins
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aaronpk rhiaro: right now my clients use the first micropub endpoint they find. there has been some thoughts on supporting multiple though
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rhiaro Cool yeah I want my client to do a drop down choice I think
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aaronpk I had a sketch of choosing the micropub endpoint at the auth server stage
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aaronpk which I think is a better place to do it, since then the client doesn't need to worry about supporting multiple
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aaronpk trying to find where i had written that up
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rhiaro Makes sense
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aaronpk i'm going to build my own auth server for p3k because there are some other settings i want to experiment with there
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aaronpk so when I sign in to an app i'll get to choose the visibility of the posts it creates, and which "collections/feeds" they get added to automatically
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rhiaro Interesting
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@javolmut @CPURX Private cloud file sync solves this problem. If you don't hold your data -- you don't #OwnYourData https://twitter.com/BibopGGresta/status/673201691332706304 (twitter.com/_/status/682599294843617280)
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rhiaro You think you'll always want to define that per-app rather than per-post?
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aaronpk I think there are some times where I want blanket rules like that per app. per post I'll want to do as well
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belp.audio edited /User:Belp.audio/MyTumblr (+1446) "/* Screenshots */" (view diff)
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Schnitz Hey Kartik
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Schnitz Kartk: I used your webmention test page in a screenshot in my work-in-progress Tumblr / Inde Web page, hope thats ok, do you want explicit credits in the page? I put a link in there too... https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Belp.audio/MyTumblr#Screenshots
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KartikPrabhu Schnitz: that should be fine!
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Schnitz KartikPrabhu: thanks :-)
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KartikPrabhu btw I think that each website having its own way of representing mentions is ok
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Schnitz KartikPrabhu: of course it is, do think my wording is too negative on this? I'm having specifically an audience in my new to this... but that may be good point
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KartikPrabhu no it isn't particularly negative. was just pointing it out
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Schnitz s/my/mind
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Loqi Schnitz meant to say: KartikPrabhu: of course it is, do think mind wording is too negative on this? I'm having specifically an audience in mind new to this... but that may be good point
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KartikPrabhu and the comment about standards emerging with implementation is exactly how indieweb development works so it is fine
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Schnitz KartikPrabhu: gotcha. Full agreement. The level of individuality to freely implement this is a feature not a bug
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Schnitz KartikPrabhu: Oh wow, you did read this, thanks so much :-)
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Pierre-O Schnitz: I beleive it should print a mention (if you send one) (but I don't know the internals of known)
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Schnitz Pierre-O: alright, lets see how this shows up then, just posted to your new blog, brid.gy needs a while to pick this before you get the webmention: http://belp.audio/post/136334236777/new-indie-web-blog
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Schnitz Pierre-O: the webmention gets sent in probably 1h
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club (-67) "/* Notes */ -cities" (view diff)
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tantek !tell KevinMarks could you add a link to your notes and add your photo from last night to the wiki page? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club#Notes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /read (+464) "Other Examples / Amy McLay Paterson" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /design (+71) "/* Thoughts */ add petermolnar's article about minimalism" (view diff)
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Pierre-O I'm quite happy :) Cross known posting :) https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/jason-volmut-on-twitter-cpurx-private-cloud-file-sync-solves
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aaronpk kylewm++ for ownyourgram PR
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Loqi kylewm has 280 karma
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aaronpk pretty neat that you can use it to copy photos from instagram to twitter or tumblr now thanks to silo.pub
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tantek pretty amazing building blocks that can click together like that
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KartikPrabhu what's the difference between bridgy publish and silo.pub?
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Pierre-O Schnitz: I just received the mention by email, but nothing on my blog (I opened an issue: https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1124)
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Schnitz Pierre-O: cool
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aaronpk silo.pub is a micropub endpoint so you can use it with any micropub client
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KartikPrabhu aah gotcha
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KartikPrabhu Pierre-O: Schnitz: it is possible that Known does not display simple "mentions" only replies/like/reposts
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Schnitz Kartik: This may also be the case with the IRC mention relay here, because it seems to got sent but didn't show up here, wherease other mentions did show up: https://brid.gy/tumblr/belp.audio
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Pierre-O KartikPrabhu: yes, it is what I am wondering, taht's why I said on the issue, that it might be normal behaviour
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Schnitz I'm currently thinking about whether this is a superfeedr/bridgy or whether I have any control over this
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Schnitz superfeedr/bridgy issue
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KartikPrabhu Schnitz: bridgy seems to be picking it up from your user-page
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Schnitz bridgy is reading the rss of my tumblr
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Schnitz looks for URLs in the description tag and generate a webmention AFAIK
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KartikPrabhu and it seems to sending the webmention successfully so it probably on the receiving end
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Schnitz KartikPrabhu: It did work with your webmention page, yes
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KartikPrabhu yup. because I display all webmentions in someway but it is upto the receiver to display them or not. I thought of not displaying "likes" but then left them for such situations
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Schnitz hmm... not sure if something is wrong or not, and where
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aaronpk oh man Linode Fremont is getting DoS'd right now
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Schnitz Kartik: Is this maybe in the area of best practices or implementations 'crystalizing' still? Seems if you get the simple mention but others like Known seem to ignore it, it might just be different implementation behaviour, or is there is default behaviour somehow documented / established (yet)?
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KartikPrabhu Schnitz: I don't know if any "default" on the displaying side has been established. Again individual sites are free to ignore any such default recommendations so...
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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KartikPrabhu also i don't parse "bookmark-of", "quotation-of" etc... they all show up as mentions
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Schnitz As I wrote it I realized myself its kinda a rhetorical question, but I am just not fully up-to-speed with webmention common practices (yet), so maybe there is already some sort of default behaviour one could point to, but thats nothing I would push or urge, it has be develop organically, agreed
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KartikPrabhu what is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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KartikPrabhu Schnitz: there are some guidlines here: https://indiewebcamp.com/comments but no recommendation of "what to display"
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Schnitz Thanks Kartik
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Schnitz Pierre-O: so your issue with Known should be ok. Keep me informed whether there will be any attempt to display this, rather than just an email (you did get an email from my post, right?)
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@raretrack Congratulations, I look forward to reading your new blog :) #IndieHosters #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/682638322842255360)
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Schnitz Pierre-O: Or to be more precise: Known not printing a mention then basically results in a feature request triggered by you to print this, its not a bug or issue :-)
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kylewm tantek: thinking about how Bridgy should find your h-feed -- should it special case .h-card > .h-feed or just BFS the page for .h-feed at any depth?
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KartikPrabhu what is feed?
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Loqi A feed is a dynamic set of posts, typically listed in reverse-chronological order, often only the most recent n (like 10) of them https://indiewebcamp.com/feed
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KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/feed#How_To_Consume says find first h-feed
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: you could use bs4 to find the first element with h-feed in class and then send that to mf2
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kylewm is the definition of "first h-feed" uncontroversial?
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KartikPrabhu oh you mean BFS or DFS?
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KartikPrabhu yeah don't know
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KartikPrabhu how do you do it on woodwind?
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KartikPrabhu or does woodwind not find tantek's h-feeD?
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kylewm that is a very good question...
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kylewm ok yeah it searches all items and recurses on their children
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kylewm I'm wondering if there is a circumstance where that would be bad, like if you had h-entry > h-card > h-feed, surely that is not the page's primary feed...but maybe that is an unnecessary hypothetical
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: cross that bridge when you get there
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: might be good to abstract this function into mf2util?
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kylewm that's where it is :)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu++ thanks for the help
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 125 karma
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kylewm I've gotten kind of weird about wanting to do --ff-only merges of pull requests
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[aaronpk] What's --ff-only?
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kylewm like I want it to do a fast forward merge instead of creating a new merge commit
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rhiaro So.. Twitter won't let my add https to my URL, and indieauth says there's no match if I try to sign in with https :(
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rhiaro Oh now it worked, temporary twitter glitch I guess
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rhiaro Said 'error in URL' though
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aaronpk I thought I fixed that
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aaronpk twitter does let you add https to your URL it just shows it without the https
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aaronpk the t.co will redirect to https tho
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rhiaro Yeah it's fine, must have been something else wrong
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rhiaro Network error at that exact moment probably so profile update glitched
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rhiaro Network glitching in my apartment adds hours onto my general debugging time
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aaronpk impending upgrades to pin13.net/mf2/
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rhiaro What kind of upgrades?
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aaronpk poor laggy train network
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aaronpk rhiaro: now with permalinks! http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20151231134535373
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rhiaro Ooh!
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aaronpk very useful for quickly iterating on markup
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aaronpk GWG: you probably know this terminology better than I. what are the names of the components of "Delta flight 1699"? "airline" and "flight number"? is there a generic term that would also work for trains?
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tantek aaronpk - try doing a view source on the Apple Wallett "cards" you get in the email from (electronic boarding pass) as enclosures - check their XML
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aaronpk good thinking!
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@krisshaffer @JimBuhler @fmlehman Webmentions FTW. http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/682690590975246336)
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aaronpk interesting, according to the SDK docs, the fields are defined per pass. the SDK just provides different data types
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aaronpk it does define an enum of transit types: Air, Boat, Bus, Train and Generic
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aaronpk oh they are json files now!
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GWG Trains also have numbers.
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GWG Operator might work
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aaronpk the json file has things like {"key":"flight","label":"FLIGHT","value":"400","textAlignment":"PKTextAlignmentNatural"}
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aaronpk I can't think of what to call "flight number" other than "flight number". just "number" seems too generic
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GWG They used to file Amtrak trains in airline GDS systems. They gave the train stations an IATA airport code
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GWG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IATA-indexed_railway_stations
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GWG Amtrak itself also has station codes
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GWG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amtrak_stations
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GWG I wish I had the structure laid out by IATA 725 to help out.
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GWG Route number?
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GWG Now you have gotten the time I read the AIRIMP manual into my head, darn.
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aaronpk i think i might just use mode-specific terms
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@benwerd This, exactly. (Now ask us what we're building.) Why Facebook won: http://hapgood.us/2015/12/30/why-facebook-won-and-other-hard-truths/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/682699630044286976)
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk "Imagine that every email forced you to click, and go read it on a beautiful custom-designed website. Then you would reply by making that person come to your website and emailing them a link to your new GeoCities creation. Wouldn’t that be awesome?"
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GWG So, New York IWC approaches, what do I need to do?
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@FrederickLittl3 RT @benwerd: This, exactly. (Now ask us what we're building.) Why Facebook won: http://hapgood.us/2015/12/30/why-facebook-won-and-other-hard-truths/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/682703166333386752)
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kylewm interesting that ben's reply shows up pingback-style at the bottom of that post
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GWG Ho kylewm