#indiewebcamp 2016-01-08

2016-01-08 UTC
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kylewm !tell jgmac1106 non-dev people working on their personal website are absolutely welcome; and actually the non-dev perspective is invaluable for building stuff we want to be usable by people who aren't primarily programmers :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm well that was a clumsy sentence!
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@rrrrrrrix @davewiner @matrixdotorg the #indieweb movement plays an important part here, i think, too. http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/685262016810909696)
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@kevinmarks @jalbertbowdenii you may find http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html helpful - jf2 is close to the json-ld syntax #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685273225601748992)
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@kevinmarks “As Maimonides, were he alive today, would tell us: he who excludes a single user destroys a universe.” http://www.zeldman.com/2016/01/05/13913/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685273812682719233)
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kylewm does anyone know why every couple of days something hits /services/mf2 with url = http://rascul.io/boosie/in-bed-with-toys
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@jalbertbowdenii @kevinmarks marvelous! #indieweb bonus! have had to explain microformats > schema too many times to remember. html classes are hard! ;) (twitter.com/_/status/685278505953787904)
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snarfed kylewm: client ip?
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kylewm snarfed: 192.243.55.138
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kylewm either Ashburn, VA or an island in the carribean depending on whom you ask
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KartikPrabhu lol
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aaronpk sounds legit
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kylewm it's obviously not hurting anything, i'm just curious how that could happen
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@indiewebcamp RT @LukasRosenstock: People in Germany will be able to get a high dose of #IndieWeb in a short time with @indiewebcamp Nuremberg in April a… (twitter.com/_/status/685305004752637952)
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aaronpk huh, i'm having trouble finding an example of a blog where the author info appears at the bottom. all the ones on /irc-people i've checked so far don't actually show any author info!
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@indiewebcamp RT @kevinmarks: “As Maimonides, were he alive today, would tell us: he who excludes a single user destroys a universe.” https://t.co/kMiWh7… (twitter.com/_/status/685306865635336192)
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aaronpk hmm gregor's is interesting, just a tiny picture and name next to the date
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GWG KevinMarks: You are quoting Maimonides. I'm intrigued.
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@t IndieWebCamp NYC 2016 is ON! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC Save dates 1/22-23 and join us in building the future of the web! (ttk.me t4f71) (twitter.com/_/status/685309945785401346)
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GWG tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 268 karma
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Loqi [bridgy] cassie replied '@t when do you think iwc mit might get solidified? i’m coming into town again fo...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC (https://twitter.com/myriadmystic/status/685310358911713280)
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aaronpk everything is different
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aaronpk css is crazy now
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aaronpk still can't figure out sticky footer tho
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KartikPrabhu haha... example?
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aaronpk i will do this later
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KartikPrabhu let me know if you need another pair of eyes on it
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@briankardell RT @t: IndieWebCamp NYC 2016 is ON! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC Save dates 1/22-23 and join us in building the future of the web! (ttk.me t4f71) (twitter.com/_/status/685316852852101120)
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@dgd7 RT @LukasRosenstock: People in Germany will be able to get a high dose of #IndieWeb in a short time with @indiewebcamp Nuremberg in April a… (twitter.com/_/status/685324882134065152)
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[shaners] Aaronpk: my author info is at the bottom
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[shaners] Both in the site footer and in each post footer.
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tantek !tell aaronpk,rhiaro,ben_thatmustbeme let's solidify IWC MIT in March too! re: https://twitter.com/myriadmystic/status/685310358911713280
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@jkphl RT @LukasRosenstock: People in Germany will be able to get a high dose of #IndieWeb in a short time with @indiewebcamp Nuremberg in April a… (twitter.com/_/status/685349670403600385)
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@jkphl .@LukasRosenstock But hey, of course we're not limited to German attendees! Bring as much as you can! :) +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/685350522791014400)
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bradleyallen.info edited /code-of-conduct (+75) "/* Signed */" (view diff)
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@kb020189 RT @kevinmarks: Very neat single-page app model with pure HTML+CSS http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2015/12/reimagining-single-page-applications-progressive-enhancement/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685363421173293056)
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Germany/Guest_List (+510) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@jkphl 99 days to go until the #indieweb hits #Nürnberg. Who's in? ☑️ https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List ☑️ https://ti.to/tollwerk/indiewebcamp-nuremberg-2016 ☑️ http://lanyrd.com/2016/indiewebcamp-nuremberg/ (twitter.com/_/status/685371915138150400)
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@sjh_canada @shanselman Sounds like what #indieweb @kevinmarks are saying. (twitter.com/_/status/685379542479974400)
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@kevinmarks Come to Homebrew Website Club in Portland next Wednesday: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/685371243843862528 (twitter.com/_/status/685380413301211136)
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@kevinmarks “Let’s End the False War Between Free Speech and Hate Speech” @karaswisher http://recode.net/2016/01/07/lets-end-the-false-war-between-free-speech-and-hate-speech/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685384269007462401)
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acegiak oh my god wordpress
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acegiak you are making me want to take the easy route to solve this problem
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cweiske pull the plug?
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acegiak as in remove wordpress? or just use PHP to interact with the http request directly instead of through wordpress's hooks, which is what's tempting me
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cweiske as in shut down the server :)
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acegiak yeah maybe
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acegiak God, at some point I need to address the fact that it's running like ubuntu 12.04 and I can't upgrade it the normal way at the moment >.<
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acegiak I'm really bad at server admin stuff
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cweiske bear offered help
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bear yep, willing to help with stuff like that
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Loqi bear: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 33 minutes ago: IndieWebCamp 2016 NYC is a GO 2016-01-22..23 at MozNYC. Add yourself: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC#Guest_List http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-07/line/1452210494992
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acegiak server admin stuff?
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bear yes
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acegiak neat
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acegiak I think at some point I need to bring the server down and do a fresh server install really
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bear if me spending an hour or so on your server helps with 1) security and 2) indieweb -- then yes
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acegiak well when I know where I want to start I'll get in touch
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bear :)
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bear.im edited /2016/NYC (+0) "add myself to NYC event" (view diff)
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cweiske acegiak, sounds like making it do normal upgrades again would be a good start
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acegiak well that's what I was saying about doing a full OS reinstall
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cweiske but it might very possibly be fixable without reinstalling
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acegiak this true
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bear oh - I always forget about this: dpkg --get-selections
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bear that is much more saner than dpkg --list to build the list
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cweiske yep
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bear now that I force myself to use fabric or ansible, I rarely have to recreate the list of installed items
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (+325) (view diff)
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petermolnar !tell GWG WordPress Feature Plugin Chat: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 2100 UTC - I'll try to attend and see if pushing webmentions is possible, backed with the w3c draft now
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (+285) (view diff)
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jkphl.is uploaded /File:OpenSUSE_official-logo-color.svg "Official openSUSE logo (colored)"
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jkphl.is uploaded /File:OpenSUSE_official-logo-color.png "Official openSUSE logo (colored)"
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jkphl.is uploaded /File:Tollwerk-Logo_RGB.png "Tollwerk logo (colored)"
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg (+844) "/* Sponsors */" (view diff)
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@MarcLaporte RT @t: IndieWebCamp NYC 2016 is ON! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC Save dates 1/22-23 and join us in building the future of the web! (ttk.me t4f71) (twitter.com/_/status/685429745622892544)
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@MogulAzam RT @kevinmarks: “Let’s End the False War Between Free Speech and Hate Speech” @karaswisher http://recode.net/2016/01/07/lets-end-the-false-war-between-free-speech-and-hate-speech/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685438999150735361)
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Loqi [bridgy] Lukas Bestle replied '@creichel_ Das ist eigentlich immer sehr ähnlich vom Programm. Hier Infos zu dem...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/lukasbestle/status/685090621095292928)
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Loqi [bridgy] Lukas Bestle replied '@creichel_ Inhalt von was meinst du?' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/lukasbestle/status/685081634102751233)
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Loqi [bridgy] Lukas Bestle replied '@creichel_ Sehr viel sehr leckeres Essen und nette Leute. :)' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/lukasbestle/status/685078494141923328)
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Loqi [bridgy] Chris Reichel replied '@lukasbestle Naja, der Inhalt muss auch stimmen. Und von dem weiß ich leider noc...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/creichel_/status/685081429198417921)
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Loqi [bridgy] Lukas Bestle replied '@creichel_ OK, bei mir wird's wahrscheinlich Freitag bis Dienstag. BTW: Da verpa...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/lukasbestle/status/685078439766929408)
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Loqi [bridgy] Chris Reichel replied '@lukasbestle Von dem Indie Web Camp' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/creichel_/status/685084874571649024)
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Loqi [bridgy] beyond tellerrand replied '@lukasbestle @creichel_ here's this years, but you're right, it's similar: indie...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/btconf/status/685096218528247808)
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Loqi [bridgy] Chris Reichel replied '@lukasbestle Geplant ist am Montag zu kommen und am Donnerstag abzureisen.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany (https://twitter.com/creichel_/status/685078141128314880)
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@stegrainer @caseyliss Curious if you’ve looked into IndieWeb. http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/685448474574327808)
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@jkphl 🎉 It's official: Welcome @openSUSE https://www.opensuse.org as 👉PLATINUM SPONSOR👈 of @indiewebcamp Nuremberg! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg #nueww (twitter.com/_/status/685469176849412097)
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@border_none RT @jkphl: 🎉 It's official: Welcome @openSUSE https://www.opensuse.org as 👉PLATINUM SPONSOR👈 of @indiewebcamp Nuremberg! https://t.co/LbidV… (twitter.com/_/status/685469348379672576)
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@tollwerk RT @jkphl: 🎉 It's official: Welcome @openSUSE https://www.opensuse.org as 👉PLATINUM SPONSOR👈 of @indiewebcamp Nuremberg! https://t.co/LbidV… (twitter.com/_/status/685469348367077376)
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@petermolnar @caseyliss so it’s a perfect time to join us! :) #indiewebcamp (https://petermolnar.eu/o0n3cn/) (twitter.com/_/status/685478381496868865)
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WeStyle fashion social https://westyle.co
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GWG yawns
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GWG Good morning
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 5 hours, 16 minutes ago: WordPress Feature Plugin Chat: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 2100 UTC - I'll try to attend and see if pushing webmentions is possible, backed with the w3c draft now http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-08/line/1452247498180
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GWG petermolnar: You think they'd go for it
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WeStyle moring
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petermolnar GWG no, but one can always hope
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WeStyle im live asia, good night
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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GWG Good night, WeStyle
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WeStyle tks GWG
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GWG petermolnar: Are we doing per spec? The webmentions plugin doesn't do async.
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petermolnar I think it does, but I'll double check it
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petermolnar it hooks on to the ping hook which is cron triggered
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snarfed the spec doesn't require async, does it?
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WeStyle i dont understand
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WeStyle indiewebcamp, what is it?
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petermolnar WeStyle: http://indiewebcamp.com/
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GWG What is indiewebcamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
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petermolnar (note: Loqi is a chat bot)
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petermolnar what is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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WeStyle @GWG yes, thanks @petermolnar , @Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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WeStyle oh, i see
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GWG snarfed: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention-spec
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GWG "Upon receipt of a POST request containing the source and target parameters, the receiver SHOULD queue and process the request asynchronously to prevent DoS attacks. There are three possible responses to the request, depending on how the receiver processes it. "
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GWG The webmention plugin does not queue and process. It processes immediately
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petermolnar you mean the receiving part
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singpolyma GWG: async is recommended (SHOULD) for the reasons stated (prevent DoS). not a requirement
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GWG Of course, it does say SHOULD.
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WeStyle i startup in asia
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GWG WeStyle: What do you startup?
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petermolnar where in Asia, if I may ask, WeStyle? (just curiosity)
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WeStyle a fashion social
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GWG singpolyma: For a feature plugin for WordPress, shouldn't it?
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petermolnar GWG I have an idea how to async this with WP
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WeStyle you're welcome, in Vietnam
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GWG petermolnar: Do tell
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petermolnar receive, note in DB; meanwhile have cron hook, cron hook processes external call
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petermolnar just like the ping part is done
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petermolnar only reverse
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petermolnar although
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petermolnar if you think about it
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petermolnar you don't need async for the webmention pluing
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WeStyle @GWG: i send add friend facebook for you
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petermolnar because that's just the queue
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petermolnar the async should be the semantic linkbacks
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petermolnar the webmention is a receiver, which just creates a note of being poked in comments
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petermolnar the actual pull of the real content is by semantic linkbacks
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Stskeeps g 39
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petermolnar I'm not familiar with that codebase, but I'll check it
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GWG petermolnar: I was just suggesting we adjust it if there is a feature plugin.
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petermolnar be we don't need to
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GWG But you are incorrect.
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks pulls it again
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GWG So there are currently two pulls per webmention
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petermolnar I have to double check this
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WeStyle you say wordpress?
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petermolnar yes
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WeStyle oh, now i understand
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petermolnar GWG I don't think it pull, at least I can't find it in the code; where do you see that?
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/master/semantic-linkbacks.php#L127
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petermolnar yes
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petermolnar but that is the semantic linkbacks
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petermolnar and that is not what's receiving
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petermolnar let me summarise it:
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/master/webmention.php#L121
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GWG I'm saying it pulls the HTML from the remote source twice
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petermolnar oh
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petermolnar I missed that
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petermolnar you're right
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GWG But I have a solution
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petermolnar do this from cron
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GWG No
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GWG But that is doable
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petermolnar how else you'd make anything async in WP?
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GWG https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/34141
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GWG I meant, how to avoid the double pull.
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GWG This ticket would solve it
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GWG The last version of this would add the remote_source to the comment data, to be available to the preprocess_comment filter. The second part of the change would give comment_post access to the comment_data
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GWG You'd be able to pull, preprocess, and post process without requesting the HTML twice
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GWG It would allow a rewrite of semantic linkbacks to update pingbacks and webmentions before they hit the database instead of after
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GWG It would not, however, solve the async issue
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petermolnar GWG I'm not sure this will fly; where is the HTML coming for the pingback data?
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GWG The pingback function already pulls it. It just doesn't pass it to the filter
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petermolnar right, but the webmentions plugin implements it's own endpoint, and I thought it does not use the pingback, especially since pingback is xml-rpc based
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GWG petermolnar: But it could also be set to pass the same data through.
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petermolnar I disagree with you on the approach for this; I'd store the received POST and cron the HTML pull
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GWG The goal of async is to prevent DDOS.
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GWG As I said earlier, it isn't in the current webmention design.
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petermolnar and what is in the pingback design that prevents it?
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GWG Or the pingback design.
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GWG What I think would make sense is to abstract out the delivery mechanism from the processing mechanism and have pingbacks and webmentions processed by the same code
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GWG But the pingback spec doesn't allow for async, I believe
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GWG The only acceptable responses to a ping are for it to be processed.
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petermolnar I honestly believe the best 'async' you can get out of WP is via cron
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petermolnar so I'll try to implement something like that
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GWG petermolnar: I'm not disagreeing.
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petermolnar I also would like to see pingback just fly away
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petermolnar and not to rely on it :)
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GWG petermolnar: I'm just suggesting it run through the same code. They won't deprecate it. You'd have better luck deprecating trackbacks.
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tantek Good morning IndieWebCamp!!!
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tantek GWG, when you have a moment, could use your help with some IndieWebCamp NYC organizing / planning things
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tantek adding to wiki now
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GWG I have a moment.
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 7 minutes ago: let's solidify IWC MIT in March too! re: https://twitter.com/myriadmystic/status/685310358911713280 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-07/line/1452233063019
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aaronpk yes let's!
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aaronpk then we just need one in February and we're booked one a month through June!
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GWG Just don't make it the weekend of the 5/6 of March.
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tantek February was thinking of Florida if we can find a venue / sponsor
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tantek GWG see /Planning to give input on IWC MIT! (date prefs etc.)
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aaronpk florida?!
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GWG tantek: You had a question re NYC though
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tantek yes - I'm making a minimal to do list now
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GWG aaronpk: Tantek wants to go to Disneyworld.
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tantek GWG, while I'm doing that, go edit /Planning#MIT to note your date preferences (both -1 and 0 and +1)
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tantek aaronpk - can you take the lead on locking down dates for IWC MIT?
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (+35) (view diff)
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tantek i.e. double-check with rhiaro and sandro for space etc.
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GWG I like any proposal that involves a Friday and a Saturday. But I can roll with the punches
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tantek (I think the dates were fairly constrained already, so we should be able to figure out MIT quickly)
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+918) "braindump highlevel To Do, list a few responsibilities" (view diff)
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aaronpk okay
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+24) "/* To Do */ fix link" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, have at it: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC#To_Do
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GWG aaronpk: Are you going to try to come to NYC?
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GWG Asking for the video equipment
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aaronpk most likely not, but it depends on other plans
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tantek aaronpk: yes, there's been interest for Florida, and February is a cold month so Florida would be nice then. We can also do later in the year if we can't get a venue etc. in time.
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aaronpk neat
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GWG aaronpk: I'll plan to bring my own toys then
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tantek aaronpk: great. when you've got the dates nailed down, update /2016/MIT and @-reply to https://twitter.com/myriadmystic/status/685310358911713280 please! thanks!
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@myriadmystic @t when do you think iwc mit might get solidified? i’m coming into town again for libreplanet, def for iwc too, but need plane tix :) (twitter.com/_/status/685310358911713280)
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tantek people are already buying plane tickets for March!
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aaronpk okay. we need to nail down the w3c meeting first tho right?
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aaronpk or is that pretty much set?
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tantek aaronpk: no that's already nailed down
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tantek has a wiki page and everything
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aaronpk it still says tentative on the home page
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aaronpk https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Next_Meeting
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tantek I'll fix that
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@michellegreer RT @kevinmarks: “Let’s End the False War Between Free Speech and Hate Speech” @karaswisher http://recode.net/2016/01/07/lets-end-the-false-war-between-free-speech-and-hate-speech/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685497378078461952)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Planning (-106) "/* MIT */ solid w3c dates, remove conflicting option, add my votes" (view diff)
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tantek the Social Web WG f2f page is a go: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-03-16
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david.shanske.com created /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+4784) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> == <span class="p-name summary">[[2016/NYC|IndieWebCamp NYC 2016]]</span> == * '''When:''' <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">2016-1-..."" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (-57) "/* Guest List */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (+10) "/* Guest List */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (-134) "/* Guest List */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+151) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (-2) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+2516) "note social web wg f2f, move past HWC to 2015, add 2016-01 HWCs" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (-137) "/* To Do */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Germany (+88) "/* RSVP */ add Facebook event" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+60) "/* 2016 */ update link to Moz All Hands in June, add December all hands dates, bold locked down IWC dates" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+215) "RSVP id for header link" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: Do we have times?
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tantek GWG, let's go with same times as IWC 2015 SF
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GWG That was a 1 day event
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tantek we can adjust as needed
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GWG This is a two day event.
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tantek right, same start/end times
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tantek I think that worked pretty well
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GWG I have the times from IWC/MIT though. I'll adjust to an 8:30 start
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tantek can also check /2015
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tantek people get started early in NYC
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GWG I'd say on Friday, yes.
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GWG On Saturday, not so much
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (+1150) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC (-99) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+74) (view diff)
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GWG tantek: How about this for the schedule? I fused it together
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tantek GWG, for schedule try copying from /2015
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tantek since that was also a two day event
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tantek and then shifting the times earlier for the earlier start time
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GWG I thought I did do that.
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+54) "/* Official Guest List */ update creator text" (view diff)
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tantek Hmm we need an Indie Event for IWC NYC 2016
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tantek anyone want to make one?
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tantek aaronpk, perhaps you could make an indie event for IWC NYC and then RSVP yourself as a maybe ?
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (-39) "/* RSVPs */ Indie Event Link TBD" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+260) "/* Planning */ organizers, volunteers" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, main page schedule looks good
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tantek go ahead and create the subpage
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aaronpk i really need to make a nice even creation UI in Quill
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@marchawkins Testing twitter publishing via Convoy from @withknown. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/685508232173887488)
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GWG I will in a bit. I need to run an errand and eat lunch. Then I shall return
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tantek.com edited /Events (-2) "/* 2016 */ direct link to Planning#MIT" (view diff)
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aaronpk <3 bridgy publish
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+100) "/* MIT */ add +1 for both key dates" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah i'm looking forward to the increase character limit on twitter
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aaronpk once you start replying to threads with 2-3 people in them, you run out of space to say anything
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tantek uh, more chars won't help that
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tantek because they'll say more too
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tantek and then you'll say more
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tantek and then it will become multitopic
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aaronpk i'm in the middle of a thread and i can only get one sentence in per tweet
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tantek and presto, you've just reinvented silo-email, but slower, and js;dr!
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aaronpk really i just want another sentence
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bear twitter will lose all value for me at larget character limites
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tantek that's how it starts
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tantek "just one more... x"
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aaronpk twitter DMs are already unlimited chars, so they took the first step to email already :P
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bear as I consume it by glancing at a single line stream
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tantek there is more incentive to be concise in dms / private messages
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tantek whereas @-replies tend to be more argumentative
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gRegorLove Yep, Twitter is like an ephemeral chat room with the internet for me. I don't want it to be a place where people post long-form content.
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 18 hours, 10 minutes ago: could you update the IndieWebCamps template for 2016, starting with /2016/NYC /2016/Nuermberg /2016/Germany (Düsseldorf) ? Thanks much!!! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-07/line/1452209135858
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aaronpk it's interesting that IRC encourages even shorter number of chars per message, and posting a bunch of messages in a row is normal
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gRegorLove I can not look at it for hours or days and don't feel obligated to "catch up"
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aaronpk gRegorLove: I solved that problem by filtering twitter into IRC channels :P
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bear there is a small handful of people who I will review their stream specifically
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gRegorLove Which problem?
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aaronpk the "obligated to catch up" problem
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gRegorLove Oh
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gRegorLove Yeah, I use lists for those I want to keep caught up with, just saying in general.
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gRegorLove It sounds like they want to be more like Medium
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aaronpk yeah I'm not saying I support long-form writing on twitter, I just am struggling to actually say anything in the remaining 80 chars after a bunch of @-mentions
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gRegorLove A friend suggested they at least not make usernames count towards the character limit. I think that's a bad idea for spam and harassment, though.
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bear all of the moves twitter is making remind me of the changes facebook has made
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aaronpk heh
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tantek doing a manual photo repost without any special treatment for now
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tantek but then adding my own caption
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tantek what is a repost?
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Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites https://indiewebcamp.com/repost
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+155) "2016 row" (view diff)
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tantek hmm: https://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Differentiating_Reposts
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tantek yet with Tumblr "reblogs", you can add more text to whatever is in the thing you are reblogging, and this is still considered a reblog
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tantek I think that's what I'll do
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petermolnar tantek I think as long as it contains everything from the source and is only expanded it could be considered a repost
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aaronpk sounds like a repost with comment ;-)
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petermolnar if the added parts are somehow distinguished from the original
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aaronpk quoted tweet?
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petermolnar yes, that is a good example
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tantek aaronpk - yeah - I was thinking that, hence citing the Tumblr example
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tantek http://tantek.com/2016/008/t1/welcome-bladerunner-replicant-roy-batty
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tantek that's a one-off repost experiment, though I did markup the repost-of URL in my storage, so assuming I actually implement reposts, the appearance of that post will update automatically.
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tantek hey brianlove_swords - we're having an IWC NYC 1/22-23! You still in Brooklyn?
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tantek brianloveswords: ^^^
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bear is testing his micropub post + webmention sending automation....
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tantek aaronpk: do you have a new ETA on your new site?
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aaronpk I'm not sure. I'm really struggling with the CSS/design finishing touches. I'm also worried I'm going to hit some snags once I start importing my content.
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@nobantu Final hours of SUPER EarlyBird pricing for #IIW #22 MoreInfo: http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/ #VRM #IoT #privacy #UMA #indieweb &more @idworkshop (twitter.com/_/status/685525117409992705)
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tantek.com edited /repost (+380) "/* Proto-repost examples */ add my manual photo repost as another data point" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Re longer tweets, I think what they're actually doing is making text behave like images do now. A picture is worth 10,000 characters
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[kevinmarks] So in effect what I asked for in 2011
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/12/facebook-twitter-and-google-plus-shun.html
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[kevinmarks] If so, that could be a good thing, as it is closer to the note/article distinction we have in post type discovery
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tantek where is the 10k announcement?
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tantek or is that a hypothesis
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petermolnar hypothesis so far
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petermolnar but I honestly don't understand why is it good for X social network to add Y feature Z has; eventually they'll all become the same in different themes
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tantek petermolnar: precisely what I predicted in my 2014 talk at Personal Democracy Forum
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tantek I called it "peak silo UX"
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tantek where basically the silos have run out of ideas and are now just copying each other, and thus eliminating differentiation
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+315) "add sponsors for Nuremberg" (view diff)
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petermolnar but that kills anything unique
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tantek except for the indieweb
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tantek and that's the point, the silos turn into boring copies of each other
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tantek we standardize their practices, thereby further commodifying the silos
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petermolnar and that is how you lose users
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tantek and once they're commodities, then anyone can compete on a UX level, and thus being distributed / federating becomes a noticeable advantage
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Nuremberg (+137) "/* Sponsors */ replace logos with hotlinked versions" (view diff)
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petermolnar this is a very promising view
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:OpenSUSE_official-logo-color.png "Copyright violation: no logos"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:Tollwerk-Logo_RGB.png "Copyright violation: no logos"
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petermolnar tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 269 karma
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tantek petermolnar, it takes no effort from us for the silos to erode their own advantages like that. however it provides us with opportunity. it's up to us to seize it.
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GWG petermolnar, if you convince Wordpress to start a webmention feature plugin, who would lead the project team?
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tantek GWG, my guess is that it would be met with skepticism due to their shutting down of pingback/trackback
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petermolnar GWG that I don't know; which means that I'll postpone this and first talk to everyone involved
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tantek until we've got more /Vouch implementation experience/deployment
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tantek they might consider Webmention+Vouch
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GWG tantek, a feature plugin can take several versions to be merged.
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GWG I have been trying to get some pingback improvements in.
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tantek Hmm - wonder how bad an idea this would of been if it had happened: https://twitter.com/t/statuses/156203 (note date)
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aaronpk look at that tweet id!
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tantek (was apparently newsworthy: http://www.blogdumoderateur.com/les-premieres-fois-sur-les-reseaux-sociaux/ )
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GWG The REST API took over two years
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aaronpk oh that was way before chrismessina's hashtag suggestion!
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tantek whoa
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tantek wait, how come Loqi didn't quote it?
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/chrismessina/status/223115412
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tantek Oh: Loqi left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:54 am
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aaronpk oh dear
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aaronpk come back Loqi!
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brandonrozek.com edited /git (+262) "More git mirror examples" (view diff)
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tantek let's try that again
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tantek wonder how bad an idea this would of been if it had happened: https://twitter.com/t/statuses/156203 (note date)
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@t wonders if Twitter should register #twitter on freenode and send all public updates to that channel as well (twitter.com/_/status/156203)
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aaronpk November 2006, 9 months before chrismessina suggested the hashtag! https://twitter.com/chrismessina/status/223115412
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@chrismessina how do you feel about using # (pound) for groups. As in #barcamp [msg]? (twitter.com/_/status/223115412)
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petermolnar if next time Loqi when dies, will he come back if I say "come back Loqi" or is that an aaronpk special, like sudo?
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aaronpk it's just me being silly
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tantek Loqi Loqi Loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk but there is a secret button which will restart Loqi
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tantek ^^^ that should work
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aaronpk the problem is i need a bot in the channel for that to work
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petermolnar Loqi, are you Hastur?
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aaronpk i could try to script my IRC client so that at least if i'm inthe channel someone else can restart Loqi
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tantek what we really need is /backfeed from Google News to our personal sites or any mention/inclusion of silo profiles like tantek/flickr or flickr/tantek
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tantek wonders how Bridgy could do backfeed from Google News
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snarfed what the i don't even
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kylewm maybe grep.io (julien's thing) instead of/in addition to Google News?
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snarfed sounds like julien's idea a while back to have superfeedr send webmentions on behalf of all of web sites it tracks
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snarfed heh, great minds kylewm :P
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snarfed grep.io looks interesting...it's basically google alerts?
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kylewm yes I think so, when I tried out the beta, it didn't find much for indiewebcamp
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aaronpk kylewm: i've been getting a TON of mentions for indieweb through grep.io
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aaronpk like actually too many to be useful
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aaronpk checks if http://silo.pub supports flickr
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snarfed hey kylewm, on an unrelated note, i noticed that bridgy publish didn't try to include location in aaronpk's tweet this morning. couldn't see an obvious reason why: https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1452273150&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyVQsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiLmh0dHBzOi8vYWFyb25wYXJlY2tpLmNvbS9yZXBsaWVzLzIwMTYvMDEvMDgvMS8MCxIHUHVibGlzaBiAgICAgICACgw
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tantek "too many to be useful" lol. ahem.
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aaronpk snarfed: maybe my markup is bad?
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kylewm looking
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snarfed nah it's not, the log shows we handled it fine
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aaronpk it's not the greatest h-card in the world
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snarfed (not urgent kylewm obviously)
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kylewm markup looks good... hmm...
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tantek is considering implementing POSSE to Flickr via Bridgy Publish because of publication usage of his CC photos.
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snarfed cool!
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tantek does anyone POSSE to Flickr via Bridgy Publish and pass along *normal* word/phrase tags?
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tantek or are only person-tags supported?
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kylewm tantek: it looks like only person tags are supported, but i will fix that ASAP
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snarfed tantek: kylewm: related: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/478
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gRegorLove +1 for adding Vouch now to WP webmention
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GWG gRegorLove, I think pfefferle would prefer it as an extension.
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gRegorLove Cause WordPress users need more plugins to install? ;)
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snarfed gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 47 karma
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gRegorLove I'm shipping my ProcessWire webmention plugin with Vouch support, enabled by default. It can be disabled, though.
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aaronpk luckily vouch verification is super easy so it's not a huge deal to add it to a webmention receiver
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aaronpk speaking of which, I need to add it to webmention.io!
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kylewm location should work on tweets now/again. I think I'd left something out of my last commit to granary
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kylewm interesting, the grep.io posts are definitely pulling in things that subscribe via superfeedr. tantek's site, my site, and belp.audio
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GWG gRegorLove, last week, people in here were telling me to split two functions in a plugin, now you are advocating for unity?
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aaronpk kylewm: yup! and quite a few others
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove Sorry for the snarky comment.
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GWG I understand both points of view
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aaronpk kylewm: IIRC grep.io is a demonstration/implementation of a superfeedr tracker: https://superfeedr.com/tracker
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GWG Let people only install what they need vs let them install one thing that does everything
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kylewm aaronpk: cool, makes sense
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gRegorLove With Syndication Links I think the functionality is not related, and agree with tantek's suggestions that the rel-me should be a core feature of the IndieWeb plugin.
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gRegorLove So in that case it's actually swapping to another plugin.
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gRegorLove Webmention and Vouch are closely tied and make sense in one plugin, imo.
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snarfed right. it's not that you want to always try for more plugins or fewer plugins. you want the appropriate number, with the appropriate features together or separate.
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snarfed judgment++
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Loqi judgment has 1 karma
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GWG Then what do I do with the hcard widget?
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gRegorLove My thought with WordPress plugins is if most installed just Webmention plugin, then it took off, then there's spam problems, then they have to go back and install Vouch plugin.
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gRegorLove A widget to add an h-card to a page, or to each post?
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kylewm I'd vote for separate plugins. Vouch is still experimental and many/most? people here do not use or support it
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snarfed that seems like an argument to make it an opt in option, but not necessarily a separate plugin
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kylewm +1 oh, yes that
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gRegorLove To clarify, I'm suggesting the verification of received vouches be included. Not necessarily sending.
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gRegorLove Verification is easy
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kylewm snarfed: it looks like granary does not convert mf2 p-category to AS "tags" yet, think it makes sense for them to be objectType: "hashtag"?
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snarfed kylewm: definitely! we already do for most of the silos
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kylewm I wonder how it should convert it if I published with <a href="https://kylewm.com/tags/indieweb" class="u-category">#indieweb</a>
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kylewm does it even make sense to do that?
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aaronpk that looks like a person-tag to me
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kylewm does it??
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aaronpk or, tagging it with whatever is at that URL. probably a person, could also be a venue
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aaronpk regular tag values should always be strings, not URLs
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kylewm gotcha, OK so granary might need to differentiate between categories that look like urls and those that don't
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gRegorLove What is URL tagging?
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Loqi tags or tagging refers to categorizing or labeling content, your own or others (tag-reply), with words, phrases, names, or other information, optionally linked to specific people, events, locations, such as the practice of tagging posts being about certain people (person-tag), like tagging people or other items where (area-tag) they're depicted in a photo https://indiewebcamp.com/URL_tagging
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kylewm oh duh, we discussed this in granary issues already https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/58
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snarfed lol
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snarfed btw u-category doesn't seem to exist... :P https://www.google.com/search?q="u-category"+site%3Amicroformats.org
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snarfed maybe just p-category?
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snarfed or does mf2 allow mixing prefixes with vocab arbitrarily?
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aaronpk the parser doesn't care
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gRegorLove I'm still considering URL tagging for music vs namespace+tag. "http://mewsite.com" vs "artist:mew"
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aaronpk but yeah the person-tag examples use "p-category h-card"
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snarfed aaronpk: right, but that doesn't make it kosher :P
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snarfed but maybe it is? got me
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aaronpk the prefix isn't part of the parsed result, so it doesn't matter what prefix you use as long as the result is what you want
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kylewm huh, I use u-category h-card on my person tags
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snarfed nope doesn't exist la la la i can't hear you
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gRegorLove haha
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aaronpk hahaha
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GWG gRegorLove, in the sidebar of all posts
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KevinMarks rel="tag" says ignore the linktext, use the last bit of the URL so that is tricky compared to u-category
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tantek snarfed, aaronpk is right, it's the term after the parsing prefix that's part of the vocabulary
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snarfed tantek: ok, sgtm. i guess it was a bit hard to grok that from reading http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 , since properties are all listed with their prefixes, and it includes language like "properties: (parsed as p- plain text unless otherwise specified)"
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snarfed but i don't feel strongly about any of this
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tantek snarfed, probably means we can make the docs better
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aaronpk yeah I agree the docs are misleading in that respect
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aaronpk but it's a tough balance between including examples of the HTML you'd actually write vs what might be "technically" correct
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snarfed aaronpk: totally! i wasn't looking at examples in this case though
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snarfed i'll see if i can make some small language tweaks
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snarfed just to confirm, some properties require certain prefixes, but others (e.g. category) support multiple...? and for those, the spec doesn't necessarily enumerate every possible/reasonable prefix for each property, but leaves it somewhat up to convention and best practice?
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KevinMarks the prefixes just say where to look
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aaronpk it's more like if the value is a string, you're *probably* never going to use a u- prefix for it, but there's nothing actually stopping you from doing so
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KevinMarks though e-url or dt-url would be perverse
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aaronpk <a href="string-value-here" class="u-property"> would result in {"property":["string-value-here"]} but that's just weird
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tantek right
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aaronpk similarly <time class="dt-url" value="http://example.com"> would be ridiculous but would work
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tantek snarfed, no property requires a particular prefix per se, it's just that some properties only some (or one) prefix really makes sense to use in real world content.
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KevinMarks it is something that makes gong form parsed back to html a little harder
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tantek which was never a design goal
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tantek snarfed, sure, language tweaks welcome!
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snarfed done. feel free to revise! http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2&diff=65373&oldid=65327
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tantek thanks, that's good text. because it's a detail I'm going to move it to the end of that subsection
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