#indiewebcamp 2016-01-11

2016-01-11 UTC
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kylewm GWG: I have posted a few https://kylewm.com/reviews/
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GWG I've never done a review as anything but an article. I may start.
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kylewm snarfed has a different approach https://snarfed.org/books
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: the "older" button goes to a blank page
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: nice "subscribe" UI!
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: thanks, it's SubToMe, which is amazing
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KartikPrabhu what is SubToMe?
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Loqi SubToMe is a button content publishers can put on their sites which enables users to subscribe to their feed in whatever reader they choose — sort of a universal follow button https://indiewebcamp.com/SubToMe
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GWG I suppose I should reserve review for future use
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aaronpk [shaners]++ i like it!
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[shaners] aaronpk: thanks.
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[shaners] The plan is to use Dark Matter + generic noun for all the parts and pieces
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[shaners] Dark Matter Publisher, Dark Matter Reader, Dark Matter Box, etc
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aaronpk nice
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[shaners] Which solved my naming convention problem
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[shaners] I had previous plans to name my eventual reader thing “Feed Me. See More."
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[shaners] While clever, it didn’t tie into Homesteading (as a name), nor into Dark Matter.
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[shaners] aaronpk: how’s the home stretch looking for new site launch?
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aaronpk definitely wrapping things up now
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aaronpk only two more minor features to implement, then i'm going to start the import/conversion process
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aaronpk which I expect to turn up a few bugs and maybe missing features
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[shaners] I have one bug in my export/import script from old site content into new content. (Which I’m waiting on Bookis for help on). Then I’m flipping the switch.
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aaronpk wow nice
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[shaners] Then, the real work starts. Adding features: webmentions, posse, micropub. Plus more post types.
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[shaners] But it won’t be speculative anymore. It’ll be running on my site proper. Finally.
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aaronpk that will be a good feeling!
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[shaners] aaronpk: when you get to the part where you import your old content, if you can wrap disparate sections in their own threads, then holy cow it goes faster.
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aaronpk i'm not really worried about speed
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aaronpk it's gonna take a looot of spot-checking individual posts since i have a lot of different kinds of content
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[shaners] Same. But as I get each post type importing correctly, I’m able to push it into the done pile. Wrap it in a thread. And pew pew pew!
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tantek what is this "import" process you speak of? why is the storage format changing? was it not a standard format to start with?
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk "standard" format
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tantek pretty sure anyone with a mf2 parser could use my (Falcon) storage files. just saying.
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[shaners] I’ve re-imported my whole thing several times now. That speed really starts to matter after the frist fews times.
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tantek does "import" mean, into a "cache"?
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[shaners] “just saying” he says
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[shaners] :wink:
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aaronpk yes part of the process is indexing everything in the database
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tantek heck, the storage files themselves are public on my website (not directly linked to except from the indiewebcamp wiki)
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[shaners] tantek: do you have anything of importance that is not wrapped in mf2
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aaronpk but also i'm changing from storing posts in a subfolder per type to a single collection of dated files, so EVERYTHING is getting renamed
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tantek the storage files have some rel=next rel=prev links between them, and technically that's not mf2 though mf2 parsers do parse the rels
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aaronpk even though my actual "file format" isn't changing much, i still have to convert everything
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tantek aaronpk - ok that makes sense
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tantek well, the directory structure you use *is* part of the file format because it has assumptions built into it
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tantek I suppose mine does in that regard too
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aaronpk there is no "just" in storage implementation details
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tantek being /YYYY/B.html
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tantek "single collection of dated files", um, does that mean one giant flat folder of YYYY-MM-DD-... files?
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aaronpk tantek: /YYYY/mm/dd/index/post.txt with any associated files (like images) at /YYYY/mm/dd/index/public/photo.jpg
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tantek is index a number?
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aaronpk yes
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[shaners] tantek: my import process is moving from my pile of duct tape and popsicle sticks codebase to Dark Matter (formerly HS). Some of my assumptions changed in that time. And some of our assumptions in the community changed in that time.
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tantek why the /public/ vs post.txt at same level?
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aaronpk [shaners]: i just realized i can't actually do any fancy speedup tricks, since i'm merging a URL structure that contains /notes/2015/01/01/1 and /replies/2015/01/01/1 which needs to turn into /2015/01/01/1 and /2015/01/01/2 and I want the index number to be in date order
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[shaners] eg, I was calling things “activities” before, now I’m calling them “posts”. etc
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Loqi gives aaronpk the index number to be in date order
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aaronpk tantek: that's just the storage location, as a URL it doesn't contain the "public" part
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[shaners] aaronpk: oh yeah. duh.
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tantek shaners, to be fair, getting storage formats right over a long time period is difficult
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aaronpk anything in the "public" subfolder is rewritten in nginx and doesn't actually get processed by any of my PHP code
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KartikPrabhu like "static" in python+Django
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yes except it's a folder per post
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KartikPrabhu sure
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tantek yikes
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aaronpk I didn't want the "post.txt" file to potentially be visible since I will be storing private posts the same way, I didn't want someone to try adding "post.txt" to the end of my URL
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[shaners] I first made these decisions in 2010
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tantek shaners, similarly, I made the first storage design decisions in 2009
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KartikPrabhu still has to make storage decisions
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tantek (obv, having had to launch on 2010-001)
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tantek ah I found a flaw. I started with pure hentry, and then started adding mf2 properties to it.
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tantek so the decisions we made to make the mf2 parser stricter in terms of back compat will no longer handle my storage format
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tantek (obv I have a custom format-specific parser since I implemented it before we had mf2 parsers)
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[shaners] another change of heart and mind, i’ve had is having the /nth/ in the URL. I’m dropping it for Dark Matter. I’ll set up redirects for my personal site, to not break URLs in the wild. But I’m not pushing that onto other DM users.
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aaronpk nth?
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[shaners] index, whatever
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tantek nested after the date?
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aaronpk what's your solution instead?
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[shaners] `/YYYY/MM/DD/nth/slug`
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tantek is that current or future?
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[shaners] My solution instead is: `/post-type/yyyy/mm/dd/slug`
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tantek oh dear
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[shaners] first is current. second is future.
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tantek well we're covering various URL design options at least
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tantek shaners, that's ironic re /post-type/ first since aaronpk is getting away from that!
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aaronpk interesting. the initial post type in the URL is exactly what i'm moving away from
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tantek jinx
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[shaners] Yep! We’re going in opposite ways on this particular detail.
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tantek shaners and on slug too!
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[shaners] i think slugs are important
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[shaners] so, i’m keeping them
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tantek I think they're important for user-friendly URLs, and search rankings
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tantek I think it's important to keep them malleable since they're user data, and user data should always be editable by the user without breaking anything.
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aaronpk here's my new URL structure: https://docs.p3k.io/
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[shaners] this is one of my favorite pars of the #indieweb community/movement. we all get to decide what’s important to us and do that thing.
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tantek shaners - how do you handle a user wanting to have two posts with the same slug in the same day?
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[shaners] we’re not building a monolith by committtee
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tantek shaners - right, we're exploring different design options using our own websites. this is a good thing.
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[shaners] tantek: auto-increment the slug (if it’s the same post type)
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tantek ah, like kylewm does with events
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tantek so part of the slug is auto-generated then, and not user-authored
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tantek (sometimes)
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[shaners] two posts on same day of different types can use the same slug
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tantek what happens when a user edits a slug?
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aaronpk being able to edit slugs is probably the main reason I didn't want to use the slug as the internal identifier
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aaronpk but wordpress solved it, so :shrug:
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[shaners] It can be human authored. If it’s not, it gets generated from a slugging algorithm.
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[shaners] If it’s human authored, and not unique, it gets incremented.
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tantek aaronpk: "solved" it, uh, keeping track of redirects across site installs is a major pain and majorly fragile
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aaronpk across site installs?
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tantek aaronpk like when you change domains and do redirects etc.
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tantek I've yet to see someone make that work with wordpress AND changing slugs
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aaronpk that's true for any site though
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tantek not if the slug is not part of the permalink
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tantek or rather, is not a *required* part
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aaronpk wordpress keeps a history of every old slug for a post, so you could absolutely create an export that redirects every previous version of a post slug to the new domain
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tantek aaronpk - wordpress had to since they painted themselves in a corner
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tantek with yyyy/mm/slug
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aaronpk of course not everybody properly sets up redirects when they change domains or change platforms, but that's not really a wordpress problem
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[shaners] tantek: if an author changes her slug after publishing a post? Lookups are still done by the combo of type + date + slug. But we try to fallback if we can’t find it.
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aaronpk i still have yyyy/mm/slug entries in my master redirect list from when I was running wordpress
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tantek I change my slugs, sometimes several times, on 10-20% of my posts
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tantek so nice to not have to keep track of that anywhere
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tantek bbiab
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[shaners] any part of the URL is deletable from right to left. all subsets of paths still return something.
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aaronpk "not have to keep track of that anymore" is only true as long as you are running software that understands the way you handle slugs
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aaronpk so when I launch the change that turns posts like /notes/2015/01/01/2/slug into /2015/01/01/14/slug I actually have to keep code running that matches /notes/2015/01/01/2/* and redirects it
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aaronpk i can't just do it as a fixed list
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[shaners] eg: /yyyy/mm/dd/slug, /yyyy/mm/dd, /yyyy/mm, /yyyy. All work. The one with a slug is a a singular result (permalink). The others are paginated collections. Same can be done with a /post-type in front of any of those paths.
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aaronpk back to automatically adding location data and setting local timezones for my posts
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[shaners] YAYTIMEZONES
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aaronpk i actually feel i have a good handle on it in my current site which is nice
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aaronpk (it helps having a persistent source of my current location)
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[shaners] #truefax
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@steveklabnik RT @veganstraightedge: I'm thinking about moving away from the name Homesteading for my #indieweb software because of its historical baggag… (twitter.com/_/status/686391110185422848)
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@levlaz @andigalpern I took your advice from Indieweb .. braindump side bar now has text under the icons. :) Thanks! https://twitter.com/levlaz/status/686398277135118336/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/686398277135118336)
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kylewm this is neat https://libraries.io/github/kylewm/redwind ; for some reason all the interesting stuff is all the way at the bottom
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kylewm it pointed out that one of my libraries has a license I can't use
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tantek aaronpk: *anywhere* not "anymore"
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tantek sometimes I find open tabs of old IRC logs (like over a year)
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tantek e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-05 and have no idea why I left it open
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tantek hmmm - maybe this https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-05#t1412528506561
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tantek aaronpk, shaners, how would you describe what you are doing with your site update / site transition / export / import process?
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tantek "restarting" your blog? updating your site?
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tantek I'm trying to figure out a name for it so we can capture some of these challenges (may help with future design)
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[shaners] Hmm. That’s a good question.
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[shaners] I’ve completely rewritten the codebase.
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kylewm retooling?
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[shaners] And to move all of my content from old database to new database, I did what is effectively an export/import.
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KartikPrabhu1 i called it "redux" when I wrote about moving from Blogger
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[shaners] I’d maybe call it rebuilding
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[shaners] redux: brought back; revived:
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[shaners] So, prolly not quite right for what aaronpk and I have each done.
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KartikPrabhu possibly
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[shaners] kylewm: retooling doesn’t feel quite right either. at least in my case. i can’t speak for aaronpk, of course.
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[shaners] but i used almost all of the same tools (ruby, rails, pg, heroku). I just re-did it all from scratch.
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[shaners] tantek: I’d say either: rebuild or rewrite.
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tantek shaners, both you and aaronpk are making very drastic (code + data changes)
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KartikPrabhu "site transition" seems to capture it. It could be transitioning from one codebase to another or from silo to own site etc...
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tantek s/data changes)/data) changes
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Loqi tantek meant to say: shaners, both you and aaronpk are making very drastic (code + data) changes
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tantek other types of "transition" - site redesign - where the focus is presentational - the underlying DB / CMS etc. might still be the same
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[aaronpk] I usually just refer to it as rebuilding or rewriting my site
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tantek site update or site upgrade - might be same-ish design but new version of CMS
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[aaronpk] as in, "It took me 10 months to rewrite my site. I don't recommend doing that."
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tantek aaronpk you used the word "launch" in https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/12/03/1/indieweb-hwc - so, site relaunch?
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tantek shaners is leaning towards "[site] rebuild" and aaronpk is leaning towards "[site] rewrite"
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[aaronpk] I wouldn't say relaunch unless I had stopped writing on my old site
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[aaronpk] But I am definitely launching a new version of my site
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[shaners] I wouldn’t call mine a relaunch either
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[shaners] This milestone is a “launch” of Dark Matter as a thing re-usable by other people though.
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[number5] shaners: rebranding :simple_smile:
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[shaners] Sure, I guess. But I’ve rebranded my site before without rewriting the underlying software.
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veganstraightedge.com edited /User:Veganstraightedge.com (+7) "Fix image URL" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /User:Veganstraightedge.com (+5) "/* Update my dfn */" (view diff)
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petermolnar good morning
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@anvial61 #indieweb @anvial61: not sure if I understand how this works (twitter.com/_/status/686494550135799808)
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www.hennevogel.de edited /2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List (+315) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@CaptainKurtis @Sheeyahshee Have u heard of #indiewebcamp? my social movement, @sensiblemn, uses an #indieweb platform called @withknown for social media. (twitter.com/_/status/686584473496981506)
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singpolyma What kind of post is this? https://singpolyma.net/2016/01/disney-copyright-trademark/ -- it's like a repost... but of many other posts
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tommorris singpolyma: it's like an indie-storify ;-)
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singpolyma tommorris: yes
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aaronpk I call those a "collection"
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singpolyma What is a collection?
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Loqi A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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tommorris the British government's GOV.UK site has a design pattern for a 'collection': https://insidegovuk.blog.gov.uk/2013/10/18/goodbye-series-hello-collections/
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[jonnybarnes] Did David ever make his Laravel inidiewb plugins? https///indiewebcamp.com/Laravel
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[jonnybarnes] Oh, that URL got mangled by nintype
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aaronpk huh, I'm not even sure what that means
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aaronpk my new site is written in Lumen (a subset of Laravel)
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aaronpk and some of the other p3k components use it too
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singpolyma.net edited /collection (+194) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add my example" (view diff)
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mwunsch Hi there I'd like to attend https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC
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aaronpk mwunsch: welcome!
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mwunsch aaronpk: thank you. didn't know if there was more to do other than just editing the Wiki
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aaronpk that's the best way for sure!
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aaronpk have you already signed in to the wiki before or do you need help setting that up?
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markwunsch.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+222) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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mwunsch aaronpk: I signed up a while back; all good. thanks
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aaronpk great!
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@t @flaneur @alexhern we post jams on our own sites now, POSSE to Twitter (see prev). You can too https://indiewebcamp.com/jam (ttk.me t4fB2) (twitter.com/_/status/686596897146966016)
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tantek.com edited /jam (+227) "/* Tantek */ add recent example" (view diff)
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[snarfed] singpolyma aaronpk: multi repost might be another option, since we already have https://indiewebcamp.com/multi-reply etc
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk i do sometimes include commentary inline in my collections, which then makes it not a repost
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[snarfed] heh. i think that one is still contested :P
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aaronpk backs away
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[snarfed] fresh in kylewm's and my mind due to triaging https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/591
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[snarfed] hah good call
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aaronpk still firmly believes a repost can only be a repost if there is no additional content
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petermolnar so repost == original and maybe share ~= original?
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[snarfed] no! back away! there's still time! :P
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tantek I'm mixed on it
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tantek I see both perspectives, having believed what aaronpk is saying, and yet having done a manual repost+comment myself
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tantek petermolnar: "share" is too watered down to be specific about
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aaronpk "repost with comment" is totally a thing but is different from a repost
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tantek On Tumblr you can reblog and add a comment
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tantek aaronpk: that's another way to consider it yes
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[snarfed] FB and G+ too
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[snarfed] hence that bridgy bug
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aaronpk and now you can on twitter too
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[snarfed] more or less, yes
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jgmac1106 excited to actually maybe make my first #indiewebcamp in NYC, the NYC offerings usually cooincide with Mozilla offerings, but the boss (wife) did not give me clearance to head out to Singapore for the leadershup summit
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Loqi jgmac1106: kylewm left you a message on 1/7 at 4:07pm: non-dev people working on their personal website are absolutely welcome; and actually the non-dev perspective is invaluable for building stuff we want to be usable by people who aren't primarily programmers :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-07/line/1452211639709
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jgmac1106 @Ben Werdmuller you get onlien left this message on wrong channel: Hey Ben you didn’t mind me citing there may be no indieweb federated network tweet. I always hesitate and rarely cite a tweet without explicit permission
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jgmac1106 @kylewm Thanks working on the logisitics and will make atelast one day work
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aaronpk I need a microformat to store links to translations of my blog posts
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aaronpk can I use h-cite if i'm not actually including any of the cited work other than the name?
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aaronpk (and author)
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tantek sure
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aaronpk oh that's the first example on http://microformats.org/wiki/h-cite
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tantek you can also use rel=alternate hreflang=...
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aaronpk i can't use rel because that doesn't work with my mf2 storage
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tantek then just publish it also on permalinks
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-alternate#With_hreflang
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aaronpk i can publish it on permalinks yeah, but i need an mf2 way of storing it
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aaronpk i will use h-cite in an "alternate" property then?
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jgmac1106 h-card is my next step. I think I got webmentions and bridgy working but have done nothing with h-cards
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snarfed jgmac1106: cool! looks like you disabled backfeed (aka listening) on bridgy though? https://brid.gy/twitter/jgmac1106
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snarfed totally ok if intentional, just checking
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jgmac1106 not on purpose at all. I scrwed it up
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snarfed np, easy fix
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jgmac1106 and you just helped me fix it
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jgmac1106 my first focus for 2016 is to really figure out lets encrypt for all my web properties
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jgmac1106 but thats more long term a q1 but people have told me the way I am setting up my classes by using myclass.mywebsite.com is a huge security risk
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jgmac1106 but having fun and learning
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snarfed jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 1 karma
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aaronpk milestone unlocked! I just implemented the last remaining "feature" before I am ready to start importing content!
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aaronpk I fully expect the import process will uncover bugs or missing features, so I wouldn't say I am close to "done" yet but this is good progress!
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mwunsch i put a little tribute to david bowie on my site: markwunsch.com
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 47 karma
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tantek aaronpk do you have a location for HWC PDX this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club
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tantek I'm assuming you will find one
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tantek OTOH anyone heard from adactio?
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tantek I see Jeena added a location for Göteborg!
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aaronpk bret: can you make HWC trhis week?
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tantek I don't know if dietrich is back yet either
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club (+427) "/* Where */ PDX" (view diff)
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dietrich tantek: leaving for asia today for 2 weeks
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tantek dietrich: nice! enjoy!
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dietrich tantek: someone else in pdx might be interested in hosting though
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dietrich i'll ask in IRC if you want
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dietrich or you could email portland@
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club (+73) (view diff)
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jgmac1106 this is a little inside baseball, but we are debating whether we as educators have a moral obligation to start teachers and students on their own domain and allow them to choose to syndicate or if building up a network of collaborators should happen first: https://medium.com/the-slackerati/this-is-a-series-in-posts-reflecting-on-the-organization-of-walkmyworld-an-annual-social-media-5459bacbb320#.5vrytuxof
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aaronpk i just posted it at Cup & Bar for this week
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tantek thanks aaronpk !
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tantek updated https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2016-01-11#Wednesday.2C_13_January
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@RikMende RT @CaptainKurtis: @Sheeyahshee Have u heard of #indiewebcamp? my social movement, @sensiblemn, uses an #indieweb platform called @withknow… (twitter.com/_/status/686622618863144961)
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@RikMende RT @DarkMatterAppCo: Dark Matter is a personal publishing platform for the #indieweb. Built on @Rails and easily deployable on @Heroku. h… (twitter.com/_/status/686622722512805888)
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@RikMende RT @offrayLC: @mbauwens we could start by owninig our data with the #IndieWeb http://indiewebcamp.com/ and taking back data from silos to #D… (twitter.com/_/status/686622875357442048)
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@RikMende RT @jkphl: 99 days to go until the #indieweb hits #Nürnberg. Who's in? ☑️ https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List ☑️ https://ti.to/tollwerk/indiewebcamp-nuremberg-2016 ☑️ https://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/686623656039084032)
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@EUWatchers RT @jkphl: 99 days to go until the #indieweb hits #Nürnberg. Who's in? ☑️ https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List ☑️ https://ti.to/tollwerk/indiewebcamp-nuremberg-2016 ☑️ https://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/686623689698349058)
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bret aaronpk: unfortunately i have a work related thingy on wed >:[
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tantek bret, how about 2016-01-27?
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bret im not sure yet
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club
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GWG I see New York people
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tantek woot!
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Loqi woot
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List (-1) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+140) "+1 on Summit 2016-06-04..05. more input please!" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Afternoon, #indiewebcamp
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aaronparecki.com edited /Planning (+18) "/* Summit */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Planning (+41) "/* Summit */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: had any thoughts about when to host Socialweb wg f2f?
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tantek like right before IWC Summit?
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aaronpk I have a meeting today to talk about that
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aaronpk so I will report back after 3:30pm :-)
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tantek ok!
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tantek lots of meeting planning happening for June
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tantek I may be traveling for the entire month :/
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aaronpk oh my!
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tantek or I may decide to bail on OSBridge
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tantek to keep my sanity
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tantek which reminds me - where's their CFP? is it too late to submit?
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tantek last I checked I couldn't find it
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tantek have you proposed anything to OSBridge 2016?
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aaronpk maybe it isn't out yet?
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tantek usually it's due by now
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tantek so maybe they're behind
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aaronpk just asked, they haven't posted it yet
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sonicrocketman Hello everyone. I'm new to IndieWebCamp, and I wanna see what you all are all about!
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tantek welcome sonicrocketman!
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tantek What do you think of the main points on the home page? indiewebcamp.com
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sonicrocketman @tantek I love all of those things, and it's why I wanted to check this out, but I am kind of unclear as to what you do...
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tantek.com edited /bitcoin (+314) "criticism / monoculture" (view diff)
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tantek sonicrocketman: what *who* do?
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tantek sonicrocketman: are you curious about what to do next?
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sonicrocketman yes
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sonicrocketman haha
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tantek let's start with, what's your personal site?
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sonicrocketman brianschrader.com
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tantek awesome! have you tried signing-into the wiki with it?
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sonicrocketman Just did
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tantek great! add yourself to /irc-people (since you're also here)
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sonicrocketman thanks!
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