#indiewebcamp 2016-01-13

2016-01-13 UTC
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snarfed GWG i always love your inscrutable IRC messages :P
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GWG snarfed: In the old days, I used to slap people with a large trout.
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GWG The mIRC days
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GWG snarfed: Come to IWC NYC later this month. I can inscrute in person
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snarfed heh, thanks, wish i could!
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bear gRegorLove - yes, I get all of my notifications that way
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Loqi bear: mblaney left you a message 22 hours, 21 minutes ago: does your devops support cover how to keep a site up if your server provider has hardware problems? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-11/line/1452564544961
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bear !tell mblaney qualified yes - meteor from the sky, no; anything else, maybe
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove gives GWG a sigh
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gRegorLove As in, hands you one. Not sighing *at* you.
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tantek did he use all his up?
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gRegorLove He <insert sigh here>'d earlier
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GWG tantek: I've been sighing a lot lately.
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GWG I need an Indiewebcamp to raise my hopes before they are broken up on the rocky shore of reality.
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@lukaszwozinski First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5268 (twitter.com/_/status/687077249036763136)
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GWG So, I was asking this the other night, but I'm thinking, now that there is a working draft, of filing a ticket for WordPress, and proposing at some point in the future webmentions might be included in core.
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GWG Why should people want webmentions?
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GWG I'm still on that question
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KartikPrabhu Why do you want webmention?
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singpolyma I want the semantic linkback stuff (scraping ufs at the same time as checking the mention truly links) -- which can be done with any of the protocols anyway
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singpolyma webmention is just yet another thing to implement
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Loqi gives singpolyma the semantic linkback stuff
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: other protocols do not ask you to scrap. webmention does and that is the main difference
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singpolyma pingback does ask you to, and it's the only real contender anymore (others never forbid you from scraping, but whatever, pingback mostly killed other contenders)
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gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention-faq#Why_webmention_instead_of_pingback
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KartikPrabhu was going to do that ^
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singpolyma I totally get that webmention is simpler than pingback, but it's not simpler for me because I have to implement both anyway
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singpolyma just more work
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gRegorLove There apparently is no longer a #Why on /Webmention. Hm.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I want it for the same reason as singpolyma, but arguably, that could be done with pingback
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GWG I'm asking at a lower level.
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GWG The structures we've built with webmention could be done with pingback.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: "could be" but haven't
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KartikPrabhu I could do a lot of things
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GWG What inherently makes webmentions worth doing? By themselves, without what could be built on top of them?
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singpolyma KartikPrabhu: untrue. the wordpress semantic linkback, etc, plugins work with pingback even if you don't have the webmention plugin
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KartikPrabhu GWG: what makes webmention inherently worth doing for you?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: If I have a spoon, and someone offers me a spork....I could use both of them to eat food. What makes the spork better?
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singpolyma and the Linkback plugin in GNU Social also supports it with both
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KartikPrabhu what makes the spork better for you?
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GWG My argument was async and vouch, actually. Except I have neither of those
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KartikPrabhu GWG: you can do those with pigback too
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singpolyma and should
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KartikPrabhu just like you can distribute content with pdfs but you use HTML
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KartikPrabhu "you can do that with XYZ" is a very useless argument
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singpolyma those are pretty fundamentally different
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: if I want people to read what I write, I can do it with PDFs and mostly I do with academic papers.
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singpolyma webmention adds nothing to pingback, it just uses a different HTTP body encoding. a better one, to be sure, but pingback already has a lot of penetration and webmention has almost none so I have to build both, which is not very harmful and mostly annoying
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gRegorLove I use webmention.io to convert pingback to webmention.
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: don't use webmention if it is annoying and more work
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gRegorLove so my webmention plugin only needs to support *sending* pingback as a fallback
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singpolyma KartikPrabhu: have to, because some indieweb stuff only supports webmention :)
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gRegorLove Different HTTP encoding + lack of XML
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: then there is your reason
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KartikPrabhu you want sites to communicate with each other. For newer sites webmention is easier to implement etc...
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singpolyma barely
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singpolyma but yes
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gRegorLove As captured on https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention-faq#Why_webmention_instead_of_pingback
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GWG So, the answer is that it is an updated version of pingback using a simpler transport method?
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KartikPrabhu yes.
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singpolyma GWG: same transport, simpler data encoding
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gRegorLove Yes. That's in the opening paragraph of /Webmention
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singpolyma or... shorter encoding anyway. complexity of two fields can't be reduced by much ;)
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GWG I want to be prepared to make this argument
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KartikPrabhu IMO much easier to parse mf2 than XML
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singpolyma KartikPrabhu: webmention does not use mf2. it uses x-www-form-urlencoded
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singpolyma which is easier to parse than xml if you don't have a library, for sure
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singpolyma though in practise you use a library for both
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gRegorLove GWG: Yeah, updated version of pingback. Easier to implement. Easier to test.
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KartikPrabhu I know. I mean't after the notification. If you want to parse mf2 with pingback sure go for it
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KartikPrabhu do there exists forms to send pingbacks?
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KartikPrabhu probably not.
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singpolyma KartikPrabhu: like, generic ones? I don't know. I could make one pretty quick
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KartikPrabhu even building a UI for webmention sending is easier
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: go for it if you want to use it. I'll stick with webmention-forms
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singpolyma I would have no reason to use it. Everything I use supports pingback already
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KartikPrabhu ok
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KartikPrabhu again "I could do it with XYZ" is fine. Maybe "XYZ" is not so easy for people just starting out
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gRegorLove I don't know if the Pingback spec says anything about async processing. Webmention spec strongly recommends it, as a SHOULD, which is good for preventing DoS
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singpolyma this is not an "I could" but an "everyone already does". I'm fine to implement webmention and every other NIH competitor necessary, because I can, it's just more work is all
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gRegorLove So another possible advantage
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singpolyma sure
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KartikPrabhu singpolyma: I did not have.
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singpolyma I'm not arguing that pingback is better, only that it's already deployed everywhere
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KartikPrabhu making a new website it was easier to build webmention.
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KartikPrabhu "everyone" rarely equals everyone
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singpolyma Sure. My webmention implementation probably took a few fewer minutes than the pingback one too. I'm not saying it's not a little better, it is
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singpolyma gRegorLove: need a webmention.io in reverse to proxy webmention sending to pingback, then could only implement it once in both directions
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gRegorLove What is Telegraph?
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Loqi Telegraph is an open source API and service for sending webmentions, part of the p3k suite https://indiewebcamp.com/Telegraph
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gRegorLove Telegraph does, it appears https://telegraph.p3k.io/api
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gRegorLove Perhaps /Pingback should be updated to suggest Telegraph
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gRegorLove I like Pingback "How do I implement receiving?" "First, don't bother with XML-RPC."
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tantek the first indieweb distributed comments used pingback+h-entry+h-card
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tantek go look it up
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gRegorLove I remember that. I was excited to get my first webmention plugin done and then realized I had to support sending pingback to comment on that first federated comments post :)
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tantek so there is some "here's what you should do once you get and verify a webmention" that we should document
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GWG tantek: In the draft spec?
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tantek no I mean it exists as a best practice
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tantek and we should spec it
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GWG I was thinking of writing a...Fun Things to Do with Webmentions section...sort of a...see the potential
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tantek Webmention best practices
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fnordle Anyone know why the unicode iconography on indiewebcamp.com/principles won't render for me? I'm on Iceweasel (Firefox) on Debian and rarely have this problem on modern sites. See https://imgur.com/UymHr7S
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fnordle The links appear to misbehave as well. For example, clicking the icon next to "Build tools for yourself" redirects me to the "Exercise" page. The "Open source your stuff" icon redirects to the "Love" page. The three icons that /do/ render appear to function properly.
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singpolyma fnordle: hmm. icons render for me in abrowser on trisquel
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fnordle hmm w3m (command-line browser) renders identically
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fnordle must be lack of a font..
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KartikPrabhu those links are going to the right place then
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should the icons on the /principles page be linked!?
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KartikPrabhu they are really confusing. see preceding discussion
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tantek those are emoji
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KartikPrabhu yes but when they don't load/render they lead to confusion
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tantek their rendering may be platform font / browser support dependent
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tantek we can fix the links
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KartikPrabhu cool
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singpolyma fnordle: oh. install ttf-ancient-fonts
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should I just remove the links to the pages then?
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tantek nah, we should fix them!!!
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tantek what's this "remove" you speak of?
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tantek we don't shy away from broken things, we fix them.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the emojis are linked to the wiki pages about the emoji.
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tantek that sounds like a tautology
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tantek so we should figure out if the emojis should link to different pages
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fnordle ttf-ancient-fonts fixed it. Thanks singpolyma.
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KartikPrabhu the emoji with the hearts links to /love which is fine, but then it sits in front of a paragraph where the link to /love seems out of context
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fnordle can confirm that proper rendering of icons has no effect on link resolution
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fnordle a "Love" page with Rick Astley lyrics looks like spam
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KartikPrabhu fnordle: it is an inside joke here
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KartikPrabhu what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM https://indiewebcamp.com/love
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tantek that's not Rick Astley
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fnordle possibly showing my age..
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fnordle :)
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fnordle The page leaves me more confused than I feel it should.
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KartikPrabhu fnordle: what are you trying to do?
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fnordle Kartik: I'm looking to IndieWebify myself
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KartikPrabhu what is indiewebify?
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fnordle and want to document the process
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Loqi Indiewebify.me is a service that checks how "indie web" your site is and reports back its results https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebify
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fnordle http://indiewebify.me/
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fnordle oh..
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fnordle what are microformats?
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Loqi microformats are extensions to HTML for marking up people, organizations, events, locations, blog posts, products, reviews, resumes, recipes etc https://indiewebcamp.com/microformats
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KartikPrabhu yes that should tell you steps to setup a indiwebsite. Are you having trouble with it?
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[aaronpk] Wait why do the emoji on /principles link to the emoji pages? That's weird
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KartikPrabhu i agree
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[aaronpk] I never even noticed they were links
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KartikPrabhu because the emoji displayed for you (and I) and we assumed they were icons for decoration
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KartikPrabhu fnordle: feel free to ask questions here if you have trouble with the "indiewebification"
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fnordle thnx
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fnordle curious..
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fnordle just checked the irc log on the website and see aaronpk talking but don't see him in my IRC client
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tantek aaronpk feel free to unlink them until we sort out which emoji should link where etc.
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fnordle sorry must be me
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KartikPrabhu fnordle: that is strange
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KartikPrabhu do some IRC clients not like the brackets around names?
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KartikPrabhu fnordle I am going to test that
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[Kartik] did you get this message fnordle?
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fnordle yes
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[Kartik] ok weird
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fnordle my irssi isn't scrolling properly
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KartikPrabhu aah ok
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fnordle I'm new to IRC. anyone here using irssi?
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kartikprabhu.com edited /principles (-48) "unlinked emojis until we sort out which emoji should link where etc." (view diff)
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[aaronpk] I use weechat, kind of like irssi
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fnordle thanks i'll check it out
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@WordPressTTT New #WPtrac > https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/35435 > Ticket #35435 (Support Webmentions) created #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/687146745449574400)
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GWG I figured...what the heck
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GWG It will take them 11 years to look at the ticket
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@brianjesse Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687181723268849664)
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@nhoizey Yeaaaah, Webmention arrive enfin en First Public Working Draft, ça va lui donner de la visibilité ! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/687218194730254337)
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@hail2u_ Webmention仕様読むぞ (twitter.com/_/status/687220778081726464)
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@iamtzi Yeaaaah, Webmention arrive enfin en First Public Working Draft, ça va lui donner de la visibilité ! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/687221087290142720)
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@AntBogarin "Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site." #seo https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/687223474679603200)
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@antoinentl Yeaaaah, Webmention arrive enfin en First Public Working Draft, ça va lui donner de la visibilité ! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/687228906085191680)
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@MarkupUA First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols http://all-markup-news.com/first-public-working-drafts-webmention-social-web-protocols?utm_content=bufferb2866&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/687230888036319232)
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@68MiddleSt Tonight 6.30pm @68MiddleSt it's Homebrew Website Club, come along https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/687235288612081664)
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tommorris.org edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+250) "/* RSVPs */ adding myself and partner +1" (view diff)
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tommorris so, yeah, NYC here we come
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tommorris hmm, no minor edits propagating in here?
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tommorris hoping I might have ferocity2 stuff to show at IWC-NYC
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@nsteinmetz Yeaaaah, Webmention arrive enfin en First Public Working Draft, ça va lui donner de la visibilité ! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/687258345066082304)
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@W3CSverige Nya Working Drafts: sociala webben ... ”Webmention”; ”Social Web Protocols”. Se http://www.w3c.se/news-archive/2016/01.html#item3051 (twitter.com/_/status/687261751151357953)
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@bigmeatynyas1 Nya Working Drafts: sociala webben ... ”Webmention”; ”Social Web Protocols”. Se http://www.w3c.se/news-archive/2016/01.html#item3051 (twitter.com/_/status/687262327599661056)
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petermolnar I finally finished reading backlog
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@KaralisKonnect First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5268?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=first-public-working-drafts-webmention-social-web-protocols #w3c #feedly (twitter.com/_/status/687276184674168832)
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petermolnar !tell singpolyma pingbacks _were_ are widely supported. Nowadays they are widely ignored or considered spam. It'd need additional magic to support types - like, fav, reply, repost, etc -, and by a short research, none blogger or blogspot supports it (any more?). The support you're referring to is long gone, maybe except for WordPress where it's ignored.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@LukasRosenstock Have you seen my "Social Web Vendor Diversity Challenge"? If not, check it out here: https://lukasrosenstock.net/post/66967056 #SocialMedia #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/687286259618856961)
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@jgarber Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687307187924938752)
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@myriadmystic plane tickets to boston acquired! #libreplanet2016 and #indiewebcamp mit, here we go! (twitter.com/_/status/687315583260479488)
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@roomthily having a think about w3c things & what an IndieSciWeb would look like... new potential spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687316077773074432)
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@regisrob WebMention - W3C First Public Working Draft http://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687319203347623936)
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kylewm petermolnar++ good points about pingback
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Loqi petermolnar has 13 karma
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aaronpk petermolnar++ yes!
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Loqi petermolnar has 14 karma
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tantek tommorris coming to NYC! Yes!
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tantek GWG++ for a very well written ticket https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/35435
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Loqi GWG has 139 karma
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@lmaccork WebMention - W3C First Public Working Draft http://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687320938053025792)
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aaronpk GWG++ very nice
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Loqi GWG has 140 karma
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GWG tantek: Which puts me back at how to design a webmention system for WordPress. I'm aware of the fact that pfefferle already did that, but it needs certain things if it is going to work in core.
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petermolnar GWG check my code, it might help
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GWG petermolnar: I did.
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raucao nice work on the webmention draft!
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petermolnar and apart from being a mess, is it any help? :)
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GWG petermolnar: Parts of it. There are parts I'm not sure I like.
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petermolnar please be more specific, I'm open for changes
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GWG petermolnar: For example, I was thinking about custom comment statuses this morning.
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GWG petermolnar: The async problem could be addressed by adding the webmention to the comment table with a status of 'queued' or such, if support existed for that. Then the cron job would work off of comments of that status.
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GWG That would address incoming.
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petermolnar that is similar to what I did, but indeed better
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GWG The problem is a new comment status is a core issue
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petermolnar is anything using the karma field currently?
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GWG And would possibly run up against the spam fighting tools that do their checks before the comment is inserted.
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petermolnar or comment_type incoming, unapproved
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petermolnar change type according to fetched result
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petermolnar not that's not enough
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GWG petermolnar: So, all core changes.
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GWG petermolnar: That's why this requires a lot of thought. The existing webmentions plugin and the one you are playing with can't think about changing core functions. But a feature plugin should be thinking about whether or not that is a good idea.
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GWG petermolnar: And changing core functions gets into the WordPress philosophy of backward compatibility.
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petermolnar comment_approved is a varchar(20)
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petermolnar in theory, we could add other states
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@tamuwww Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687324467392045056)
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GWG petermolnar: Correct. But look at wp_set_comment_status
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petermolnar does it have filters/hooks?
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GWG https://developer.wordpress.org/reference/functions/wp_set_comment_status/
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GWG But it doesn't have to be used.
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petermolnar it can be circumvented
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petermolnar which is not the best
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petermolnar but since it uses a wpdb->update
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GWG petermolnar: Exactly.
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petermolnar I won't feel guilty
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GWG But that is a bigger conversation
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@RikMende Just did a backup of http://www.okcinfo.news/ thanks to built-in @withknown backup feature. thanks #indieweb http://www.rmendes.net/2016/just-did-a-backup-of-thanks-to-built-in-withknown-backup (twitter.com/_/status/687333200926920704)
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@dret proposing to register "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ in the RFC 5988 link type registry. please voice support. https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/29 (twitter.com/_/status/687333204882096128)
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@LukasRosenstock I coined the "Social Web Vendor Diversity Challenge", and here's the sites and apps I use: https://lukasrosenstock.net/post/67007256 #SocialMedia #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/687333881989693441)
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@WebhodNetworks W3C schlägt Social-Media-Standards vor: Das World Wide Web Consortium hat mit Webmention und Social Web Protoc... http://www.heise.de/ix/meldung/W3C-schlaegt-Social-Media-Standards-vor-3070116.html?wt_mc=rss.ix.beitrag.atom&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/687333973068914688)
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@RikMende Fun little tool http://h2vx.com/vcf/ #indieweb #h2vcard http://www.rmendes.net/2016/fun-little-tool-vcf-indieweb-h2vcard (twitter.com/_/status/687334100655472641)
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GWG Who implements asynchronous processing of webmentions right now?
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aaronpk does
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aaronpk as does webmention.io
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snarfed bridgy doesn't
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snarfed (publish only half counts, but blog webmentions fully count)
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GWG I am trying to come up with a design for doing that. I am not prepared to build it yet, but want to have the proposal ready,since I opened the ticket.
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snarfed GWG: sounds like you already came up with a design and proposed it to petermolnar earlier
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GWG snarfed, I am refining it. I have to pour through built in Wordpress functions to figure out what to integrate.
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GWG Right now, I am trying to figure out status pages
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GWG Do people see utility from queued webmention status pages?
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kylewm GWG: yes, absolutely
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gRegorLove GWG: I do async
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gRegorLove But I don't do status pages yet.
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GWG How long do you queue your webmentions?
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aaronpk i don't understand the question
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GWG The specification states that they should be processed asynchronously.
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aaronpk not sure I understand what the "how long" part of the question is
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snarfed that doesn't imply a delay before processing, just that returning the HTTP response doesn't block on processing
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GWG I'm wondering if anyone adds a deliberate delay to the processing.
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snarfed doubtful
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aaronpk ah, no I try to process it as soon as it's added to the queue
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snarfed usually the constraint is on processing rate, eg people will process them one at a time (or n at a time)
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GWG That is what I wanted to know.
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gRegorLove GWG: I use a "lazy" cron that triggers after page loads. It runs ~30 seconds and processes 5 at a time.
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snarfed more importantly though, these are implementation details. afaik the spec doesn't say anything about any of this
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GWG gRegorLove, not dissimilar to how Wordpress cron works
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GWG snarfed, I am working on a design for a core implementation in my head. I want to have every major implementation detail thought out.
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gRegorLove It's set that way since I'm distributing the plugin and ProcessWire has that built-in lazy cron and not everyone can run cronjobs. I will likely set up an actual cron on my site eventually, though.
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kylewm ben_thatmustbem had an intentional delay (5 minutes?) IIRC
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aaronpk I thought that was just his cron job interval
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gRegorLove Sorry, the lazy cron interval is 1 minute, not 30s
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@t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687343591434268673)
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GWG It may just be my fwa
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@bradneuberg RT @t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687343893445136384)
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GWG fear that the Wordpress core team will be hard on me.
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gRegorLove I think 1 or 5 minutes is a reasonable default
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@raisinbread RT @t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687343996029562881)
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@tomwiththeweath RT @t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687344344915775488)
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snarfed GWG++ for pushing on wp core
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Loqi GWG has 141 karma
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aaronpk snarfed: btw I fixed the RTs showing up here to pull the text from the original tweet :D
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snarfed aaronpk++ cool!
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Loqi aaronpk has 49 karma
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@acka47 Webmention working draft published by @w3c. A "simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ via @t (twitter.com/_/status/687345135651295232)
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gRegorLove tantek: Your like/repost/reply icons at the bottom of your posts appear to be broken
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tantek hmm
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tantek gRegorLove: LGTM
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tantek gRegorLove: you might be ad-blocking them
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gRegorLove Wait, nvm. disconnect.me
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gRegorLove Yep
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GWG I keep rereading the specification for webmention.
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@RikMende RT @t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687346057882238976)
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GWG The receiver may periodically reverify webmentions.
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GWG Is there anyone who implemented that?
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@netsensei RT @t The @W3C published Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ a key #indieweb & #federation building block. ... http://tantek.com/2016/013/t1/w3c-webmention-web-federation-building-block (twitter.com/_/status/687346967391920129)
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snarfed GWG: doubt it
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GWG Seeing how others have tackled something is part of my process.
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tantek GWG, optional stuff is optional. ;) it helps to skip optional things until you personally have a use-case for it (painpoint).
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GWG I
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GWG a
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GWG I intend to dump my thoughts into a post.
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calumryan Any Brightonians in the house tonight?
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tantek I do a lot of that kind of intending also GWG
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GWG tantek, you are the King of Brain dumping.
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GWG But I think I will follow through on this.
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adactio calumryan: Yup! A few of us are home-brewing (not many though).
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/14 at 10:12am: will there be a HWC Brighton 2015-12-30? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-14/line/1450116770497
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/17 at 11:31am: could you confirm the location for HWC Brighton 2015-12-30? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-17/line/1450380676260
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/25 at 7:59pm: want to add a "Brighton" section here and suggest some months or dates that you think would be good for an IndieWebCamp Brighton 2016? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-25/line/1451102354000
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/25 at 7:59pm: as in here: https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#2016 :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-25/line/1451102362918
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/28 at 10:06am: is there a HWC in your fair city this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-28/line/1451325963115
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 1/3 at 9:10am: Are you able to host Homebrew Website Club Brighton on 2016-01-13? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-03/line/1451841050444
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tantek lol
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aaronpk welcome back adactio! haha
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calumryan adactio: working on anything new/existing?
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adactio calumryan: I'm bashing out a blog post on this: https://securityheaders.io/?q=https://adactio.com
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aaronpk oh no I have an F lol
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aaronpk i will wait for the blog post before i pass judgment on myself
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bear a few headers added and my site is A+ now for that
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adactio Blogged! https://adactio.com/journal/10090
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@dissolve333 #webmention now officially a Working Draft! Now go implement it. It won't take long at all http://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/687353718124187648)
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snarfed "Now I’m inside nano. It’s like any other text editor you might be used to using, if you imagined what it would be like to remove all the useful features from it."
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snarfed lol
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snarfed (i used pico in college for longer than i care to admit)
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bear heck, I still use nano
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bear it's often the only editor I know will be on systems I support
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benjaminparry Hello Brighton Homebrew Club
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calumryan benjaminparry: hey think things wrapped up at 19:30 (GMT) - I’m not actually there just remote
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[shaners] I got a B without having done anything special myself. Everything that is being done was all default Rails.
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[shaners] https://securityheaders.io/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fveganstraightedge.com
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benjaminparry calumryan: Oh I thought they extended it, the events page its untill 9.30pm. Thanks
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AngeloGladding shaners: are you in LA?
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[shaners] I am.
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AngeloGladding farmhouse related?
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[shaners] Nah. The Farmhouse is no more. They tore it down.
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[shaners] I live in a van now.
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AngeloGladding Ahh..
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[shaners] http://littlemisadventuretime.com
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AngeloGladding I was just looking for a venue for an LA HWC, vaguely remembered the Farmhouse, saw Tantek was a follower, saw the Farmhouse's hashtag #veganstraightedge, saw your securityheaders.io link.. Tiny world.
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tantek welcome AngeloGladding!
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[shaners] Totally for sure
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AngeloGladding Hello all
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[shaners] I really should update the FH site to reflect the current reality of it.
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AngeloGladding Sad. I never made it out.
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tantek AngeloGladding: add Los Angeles, CA and yourself to the list of cities here! https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Up-and-coming_Meetings
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AngeloGladding I am.
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tantek awesome
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@WhatWebCanDo RT @w3c First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5268 (twitter.com/_/status/687358940120772611)
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[shaners] AngeloGladding: what part of the city are you in?
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AngeloGladding South Pasadena
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AngeloGladding I was just going to set up in a local cafe for the evening to set a precedent.
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AngeloGladding I've got a couple of other ideas I'll pursue for future events but I'd like to hit the ground running for 2016.
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[shaners] Ah. That’s our problem in LA. The city is so big that what’s local for someone is an hour+ drive for someone else. :confused:
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AngeloGladding Are you currently in LA?
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[shaners] We had that problem with our Ruby group a few years ago too
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[shaners] I’m currently in Beverly Hills
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[shaners] I’d love to go to a HWC in town. But I also don’t wanna drive a godzillion miles. Ya know?
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AngeloGladding Yup.
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AngeloGladding Definitely thought about that.
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[shaners] We really like 4-6 different chapters just within LA. :shrug:
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AngeloGladding Pasadena is a tech niche but Santa Monica and Venice have a scene as well.
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AngeloGladding One in the center might suffice. If two, one on the East side and one on the West side..
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AngeloGladding I was just thinking of starting something close so that I can be consistent and then try to drum up interest in my local community.
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AngeloGladding Anyone else here from LA?
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kylewm hehe littlemisadventuretime.com is js;dr
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kylewm i mean, i did read it
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kylewm i'm not passing judgement :P
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kylewm hey nice, bookmarklets still work on adactio.com even with the new Content-Security-Policy
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kylewm (in Firefox which has a bug that prevents them from working on some sites like Twitter)
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petermolnar GWG I thought I lot about your idea of immediately pushing a comment, and I think I disagree; what I do need and want to do is a queue table, which will get in/out webmentions
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@tullemich RT @acka47 Webmention working draft published by @w3c. A "simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ via @t (twitter.com/_/status/687370954461282304)
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[shaners] Kylewm it sure is. :grin::grin::grin::grin:
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[shaners] It was basically a ten minute hack to get something for people to follow who weren't on ig/ fb. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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kylewm [shaners]: that's a really good idea... my mom needs that
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snarfed kylewm: it's your web site too, right?
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snarfed maybe a specific feed for just photos, or just photos + articles or something?
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snarfed i definitely tell my in laws "we posted new brooke photos, check them out on snarfed.org" all the time
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tantek in looking at the IWC NYC guest list, it appears none of us so far have support for indie events + receiving/showing RSVPs
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tantek would it be possible for one of you with indie events support on your site to post an indie event + FB POSSE copy of https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC ? (aaronpk, kylewm, kevinmarks, benwerd, ... ?)
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aaronpk I vote for not me since with any luck my site will be drastically changed between now and then
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tantek your event support won't magically redirect?
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aaronpk it will
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aaronpk and theoretically webmentions to the old URLs will be handled properly too
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tantek good test right?
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aaronpk heh suppose so
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aaronpk what's the official start time? it's not obvious on the wiki
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aaronpk 8:30 I suppose?
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aaronpk also where is mozilla NY? it's not showing up on google maps
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aaronpk and "23rd & Lex" is not really an address
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aaronpk can't find mozilla nyc on the moz wiki either
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aaronpk and is not listed on https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contact/spaces/
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tantek it's not an official "Mozilla Space"
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tantek (which all have some co-working capacity)
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tantek it's more of an actual just minimal office office
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aaronpk well, let's start with getting an actual address on the wiki so people know where they're going
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tantek good call
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+9) "street-address" (view diff)
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aaronpk "Lex" is short for "Lexington"?
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+38) "/* Summary */ abbr lex" (view diff)
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tantek avenue yes
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aaronpk and to confirm, this is Friday and Saturday, not Sat+Sun?
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aaronpk should probably be explicitly stated by the dates since it's unusual
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tantek correct
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angelo.lahacker.net edited /events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club (+425) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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tantek whoa - now that's a last minute HWC! well done AngeloGladding
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+27) "end day 1 at 17:00" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (+20) "/* Summary */ FSa" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/NYC (+54) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk++ thank you!
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Loqi aaronpk has 50 karma
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC (-22) "/* To Do */ lanyrd done already" (view diff)
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snarfed AngeloGladding++ agreed!
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Loqi AngeloGladding has 1 karma
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snarfed wow also that 4MB 180x140 profile image on your site is a bit intimidating :P
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snarfed nice photo though!
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AngeloGladding lol
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AngeloGladding thanks guys
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AngeloGladding very last minute here in every respect
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AngeloGladding will be indiewebifying all day and through the night
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[kevinmarks] https://medium.com/@stilkov/why-i-hate-your-single-page-app-f08bb4ff9134#.6uun2x9w4
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@ebot70 Top hashtags for @withknown: #edtech #indieweb #edtechbridge #caedchat #edtechtalk http://www.redaelli.org/matteo-blog/projects/ebottwitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/687383592339660800)
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AngeloGladding btw aaronpk++ thanks for the recommendation of weechat.
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aaronpk cool!
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aaronpk i've actually been using it from a web interface the last couple months which has been pretty neat!
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aaronpk http://www.glowing-bear.org/
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AngeloGladding do I need an "@" prefix for loqi to acknowledge the karma?
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aaronpk no it just has to be the first thing on the line
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[kevinmarks] I implement async webmentions, though I need to fix the html storing part
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Jeena somewhere I read that there will be a Indie Web Camp in Duesseldorf in April or something, do we know the date?
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AngeloGladding aaronpk++ thanks for the recommendation of weechat
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Loqi aaronpk has 51 karma
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AngeloGladding cool
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aaronpk Jeena: yes! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg
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Jeena Oh Nuernberg, not Duesseldorf?
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aaronpk Düsseldorf in May! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Germany
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[kevinmarks] BTW being in NYC now is weird as everywhere has a Bowie soundtrack
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Jeena ah
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: PDX too!
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[kevinmarks] Adactio: restricting iframing can be harsh. Also, there is the bookmarklet problem
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[kevinmarks] I suppose it is because I am visiting so in lots of public spaces, but it really is all Bowie, which means all songs that earlier me
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[kevinmarks] And also evoke other eras
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@BenoitErken RT @acka47 Webmention working draft published by @w3c. A "simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ via @t (twitter.com/_/status/687397409362702336)
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angelo.lahacker.net created /Template:angelo (+94) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">[[User:AngeloGladding|Angelo Gladding]]</span>"" (view diff)
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angelo.lahacker.net edited /Template:angelo (+5) (view diff)
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angelo.lahacker.net created /User:Angelo.lahacker.net (+45) "Created page with "Angelo Gladding https://angelo.lahacker.net/"" (view diff)
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angelo.lahacker.net edited /events/2016-01-13-homebrew-website-club (+66) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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petermolnar !tell GWG I've altered wp-webmentions-again; it now creates it's own table in the db to act as a queue, due to the lack of queue manager in WordPress; this way sending can be initiated from anywhere
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@t going to IndieWebCamp New York City 1/22-23. Join us! indie event https://aaronparecki.com/events/2016/01/22/1/indiewebcamp silo https://www.facebook.com/events/1041585595907655 (ttk.me t4fD2) (twitter.com/_/status/687413514420498432)
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tantek !tell GWG do you post RSVPs? go for it -> https://aaronparecki.com/events/2016/01/22/1/indiewebcamp and https://www.facebook.com/events/1041585595907655
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar RSVP is an interesting thing for me, from the privacy point ( I would not like to announce my whereabouts publicly searchable ), so I wonder if it would be possible to RSVP an event, but only provide the page for the webmention callback; i guess it'd need the private webmention idea implemented
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tantek petermolnar: agreed there are some interesting privacy problems to solve re: events / rsvps
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tantek currently all "public" event implementations (silos) have public rsvps too (e.g. FB, Lanyrd, etc.)
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petermolnar that freaks me out just as well
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@kevinmarks https://medium.com/@_danilo/everything-i-wish-i-d-known-about-technology-speculation-bd20868cfaf0 “It’s up to us to figure out how to make technology serve the communities who sustain it” #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/687416045708115973)
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@georgkaser Testing the #indieweb with #known (twitter.com/_/status/687416708416581632)
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@kevinmarks RT @t going to IndieWebCamp New York City 1/22-23. Join us! indie event https://aaronparecki.com/events/2016/01/22/1/indiewebcamp silo https://www.facebook.com/events/1041585595907655 (ttk.me t4fD2) (twitter.com/_/status/687417200991408133)
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tantek if you RT an RSVP, does that mean you are RSVPing as well?!?
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aaronpk i don't think so
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rhiaro Having thought about it for 20 seconds, could a lightweight private webmention work by passing a token as a parameter when you *send* the webmention, which the target can use to get it to verify?
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tantek I think aaronpk figured out private webmentions a while ago
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tantek as in built / got working
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rhiaro I just checked the wiki, there's a proper oauth protocol flow thing diagrammed
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rhiaro I was thinking... simpler
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aaronpk the version i was scheming involved oauth (indieauth) yes
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aaronpk i don't think I actually built it though
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aaronpk well I built half of it, since you can request private posts from my site
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aaronpk hm, it just occurred to me that I haven't built any private post handling in my new site. I think I'm okay with losing that feature in order to not delay the launch more.
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tantek good call
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tantek aaronpk - I'm hoping your new site doesn't have the same RSVP bug here: https://aaronparecki.com/events/2016/01/22/1/indiewebcamp
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tantek note the auto-linked URL in my reply
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tantek I think you may be dropping cr instead of turning it into %20
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tantek "indiewebcampsilo" lol
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aaronpk it looks like that's a parser bug with whitespace
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2016%2F013%2Ft2%2Findiewebcamp-nyc
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kylewm https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69
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aaronpk fwiw my new site likely doesn't have this bug because it uses the webmention.io ruby parser :)
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@alenevince RT t: going to IndieWebCamp New York City 1/22-23. Join us! indie event https://aaronparecki.com/events/2016/01/22/1/indiewebcamp silo https://www.facebook.com/events/1041585595907655 (ttk.me t4fD… (twitter.com/_/status/687423202428063745)
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@alenevince https://medium.com/@_danilo/everything-i-wish-i-d-known-about-technology-speculation-bd20868cfaf0 “It’s up to us to figure out how to make technology serve the communities who sustain it” #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/687423204466552832)