#indiewebcamp 2016-01-15

2016-01-15 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /original-post-discovery (+237) "/* Implementations */ kartik"
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tantek
anyone have (or know of) a personal site with favorite quote(s) on the home page (like footer or sidebar?)
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tantek.com
edited /favorite_quotes (+150) "added quotes to homepage"
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tantek
what is year in review?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "year in review" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BK
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tantek
Year in Review is a feature on some silos (like Facebook) as well as being a special kind of article on some indieweb sites.
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loqi.me
created /Year_in_Review (+151) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452818645791 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /Year_in_Review (+862) "linky, indieweb examples, silo examples, see also"
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+22) "/* Features */ Year in Review"
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stefanovski.io
edited /IRC_People (-28) "/* Nicknames */"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Year_in_Review (+481) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Year_in_Review (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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tantek
some interesting stuff here about HTTPS related decisions: https://www.w3.org/blog/2016/01/w3-org-supporting-https-and-hsts/
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tantek
in particular: "We’re not planning at this point of time to enforce server redirection of all HTTP requests to HTTPS ones for public resources. This is due to avoid breaking older software that can’t be upgraded, such as those in built-in devices."
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endi
I have a question related to https redirects and indiewebify.me. I followed Apache's stated preferred redirect (Redirect permanent "/" "https://stefanovski.io") yet indiewebify.me says insecure redirection
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endi
I'm not so much asking what the correct config is, but why that is considered insecure redirect, as it is the one recommended by the documentation. perhaps I should ask in #httpd but I thought I might get this groups' opinions why
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GWG
I wonder what is going on.
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Loqi
Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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kylewm
endi: I think that's a bug in indiewebify.me
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[aaronpk]
endi: the insecure redirect is when you provide an HTTP URL as the input and then it redirects to HTTPS.
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[aaronpk]
If you enter the HTTPS URL as the input to indiewebify you shouldn't see the warning
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sixtwothree.org
edited /User:Sixtwothree.org (-154) "Update projects and working on sections post-site re-launch."
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endi
kylewm: ah ok. I went over my configs with #httpd just to make sure and cleaned some stuff up so, not a waste to look over them :)
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endi
yeah, if I type in https before the URL it works fine, my concern was why I was getting an insecure redirect warning and more importantly to make sure my redirect was proper and secure
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snarfed
facebook denied bridgy for the user_action.news permission :/ they claimed they couldn't figure out how to use it
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snarfed
resubmitted with more detailed instructions. fingers crossed!
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KartikPrabhu
is youtube's JS/CSS completely messed up for anyone else?
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KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek: nice text representation of RSVP here: https://twitter.com/t/status/687775657376362497 It would be cool to document so that webmention endpoints can parse this as an RSVP if it comes directly from twitter
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek same for other response types
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KartikPrabhu
what is rsvp?
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Loqi
An RSVP is a type of post that is a reply to an event post https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp
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KartikPrabhu
what is text first design
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Loqi
Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first_design
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KartikPrabhu
what is favorite quote
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "favorite quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BL
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KartikPrabhu
what is favorite quotation
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "favorite quotation" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BM
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KartikPrabhu
what is favorite quotes
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Loqi
favorite quotes is a feature of some silo profiles (like Facebook), where a user can add quotes that resonates particularly strongly with them or are sufficiently self-describing as to be part of their self-description or bio https://indiewebcamp.com/favorite_quotes
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loqi.me
created /favorite_quote (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842950794 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu"
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KartikPrabhu
what is favourite quote
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "favourite quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BN
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loqi.me
created /favourite_quote (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452843060817 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu"
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KartikPrabhu
what is favourite quotes
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "favourite quotes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BP
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KartikPrabhu
favourite quotes is /favorite_quotes
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loqi.me
created /favourite_quotes (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452843097192 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu"
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /favorite_quotes (+12) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ add approximate date"
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: do quotes on pages count as /favourite_quotes ? eg: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers
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tantek
"on pages" is vague - so no, not without further context
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Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 24 minutes ago: nice text representation of RSVP here: https://twitter.com/t/status/687775657376362497 It would be cool to document so that webmention endpoints can parse this as an RSVP if it comes directly from twitter http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842134794
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Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 24 minutes ago: same for other response types http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842149523
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: thanks! (re: RSVP) - feel free to document on /RSVP#Brainstorming
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tantek
re: use of a quote at top of https://kartikprabhu.com/papers - it's use there is more like a header, than an indicator of a favorite
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KartikPrabhu
fair enough
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tantek
I have seen that literary device before however
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tantek
many books have chapters where each chapter starts with a quote
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KartikPrabhu
it is common in academic theses
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KartikPrabhu
sometimes chapters in a thesis start with quotes
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tantek
there may be a specific name for that literary device but I don't know what it is
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KartikPrabhu
me neither
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tantek
something like "introductory quote"
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KartikPrabhu
i have such quotes on other pages and also on error pages ;)
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tantek
it's like featured photos, just because the photos are there at the top of articles, it does not make them favorite photos
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tantek
KartikPrabhu, hah, I already apparently started braindumping as I started designing my RSVP posts: https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#Text_Design
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tantek
feel free to add your own observations, cite specific examples you see as relevant etc.!
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KartikPrabhu
nice. I was more asking about an algorithm to parse them so that if someone sends a webmention from a tweet URL I can see it as a reply/like/rsvp
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KartikPrabhu
for example: it might be useful to use twitter as a marginalia posting
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KartikPrabhu
like shepazu was asking for a while ago
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tantek.com
edited /rsvp (+68) "/* Text Design */ implemented a couple more since"
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KartikPrabhu
similarly bridgy publish at the moment only POSSEs likes to other tweets, but this way it could make a text-representation of a like to any post
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: yes - I understand the use-case for such an algorithm, my point is that by documenting the real world examples you find, it brings us *closer* to coming up with a sensible algorithm based upon real world examples.
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KartikPrabhu
alright gotta cash out... too late here
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tantek
that being said, feel free to *also* capture your "Use-case for an algorithm" in /RSVP#Brainstorming as well, with the exact explanation you gave above
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tantek
same same
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tantek
but please do take a look at adding those tomorrow morning!
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KartikPrabhu
bonne buit!
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KartikPrabhu
s/buit/buit
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: bonne buit!
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KartikPrabhu
oh come on!
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[shaners]
I forget if I mentioned this in channel or not. On 2016-01-10, I flipped the switch on my site (veganstraightedge.com) from the 6 year old pile of codebase that wasn’t reusable by anyone else to (what I’m now calling) Dark Matter. Which has nothing in it that’s custom to me / my site.
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[shaners]
What is Dark Matter?
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Loqi
Dark Matter is a personal publishing platform project (created with Ruby on Rails) by Shane Becker and Bookis Worthy https://indiewebcamp.com/Dark_Matter
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[shaners]
Time to update that wiki page now that it’s finally not vaporware.
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petermolnar
anyone who operates their own mail stack: I've got 4 ips this morning trying to send mail in my domain name, so I suggest to implement DMARC p=reject if you're running your own stack
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petermolnar
at least 10 o.O
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veganstraightedge.com
created /review (+22) "Redirected page to [[h-review]]"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Dark_Matter (+1950) "Expand Dark Matter documentation"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Dark_Matter (+1008) "More Dark Matter docs"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Dark_Matter (+25) "Add external URL to Dark Matter site"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /Dark_Matter (+18) "/* Dark Matter Platform */"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /selfdogfood (-63) "/* testing your code in production */"
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jgmac1106
I tried to make my syllabus using HTML/JS/CSS tried to make my syllabus in Thimble. Failed miserably: http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2016/i-cant-make-what-i-want-teachtheweb-i-was-trying
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jgmac1106
would have helped if I knew responsive CSS and JS first
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jgarber
Logging back in for the first time in quite awhile and see the message about registering/identifying my IRC nickname. Should I do that and, if so, is the format `/msg NickServ REGISTER`…?
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Loqi
jgarber: snarfed left you a message on 8/23 at 11:43am: just added an FB API workaround to bridgy that may send you more FB responses on old posts of yours. curious if you see any within the next day or so. enjoy! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440355381370
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petermolnar
jgarber: https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration; according to that "/msg NickServ REGISTER password youremail@example.com"
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jgarber
petermolnar: Thanks!
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petermolnar
how does one search in the public IRC logs for #indiewebcamp?
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petermolnar
the reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIFuxMl-vs - I wonder if we have a translation and/or transscript for it, I'd be interested what the contents are
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kylewm
petermolnar: google's the only way to search the logs publicly :/ channy was translating a bunch of the Getting Started type pages to Korean a while back
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KartikPrabhu
!tell [shaners] great on lauching DarkMatter on your own site
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar
I've found that, I'm just curious, because the video looks promising
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kylewm
!tell tantek is the text on http://tantek.com/2016/015/f2 intentionally very small?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: that is the response context I think
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: oh actually maybe not. The reply context here: http://tantek.com/2016/003/t2/domain-name-add-indieweb-building-blocks seems normal size so maybe tantek does it for likes
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tantek
aww shaners you didn't like the most interesting production code tester in the world?
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Loqi
tantek: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 10 minutes ago: is the text on http://tantek.com/2016/015/f2 intentionally very small? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452874125137
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tantek
kylewm: yeah that was a side-effect of some other CSS change, I should fix that
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snarfed
has anyone gone through instagram's new API review process yet? http://developers.instagram.com/post/133424514006/instagram-platform-update
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snarfed
aaronpk iirc you might have? anyone else?
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snarfed
curious to hear experiencse
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tantek
what is an API review process?
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aaronpk
I haven't yet, I need to rename ownyourgram first
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "API review process" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BQ
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aaronpk
because I know that won't get past the review
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tantek
curious to hear of what silos request/require them, and for what purposes/permissions
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tantek
at least we can start documenting it ^^^
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snarfed
i'm considering applying for bridgy, but also somewhat scared
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snarfed
but they'll force it eventually, so might as well prepare
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aaronpk
bridgy isn't taking photos out of instagram so i would be less scared
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snarfed
ugh instagram review process requires a screencast too
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snarfed
that'll be my third for bridgy so far, whee
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snarfed
i'll get to that eventually. here's the rest of what i've written up: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603#issuecomment-172043765
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snarfed
i'm being slightly disingenuous and using the word "notify" for webmentions, as opposed to e.g. "copy," to downplay the fact that receivers generally store and display comments and likes that originated inside instagram
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aaronpk
bridgy is sending a notification, seems fair :)
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snarfed
:P weasel wording
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aaronpk
bridgy isn't even copying the data either ;)
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snarfed
(it actually is, shhh :P)
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aaronpk
(i thought bridgy didn't store anything?)
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snarfed
it does
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snarfed
>10G currently
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Loqi
rofl
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snarfed
not "big," but not exactly small either
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snarfed
one reason bridgy stores everything is that it detects when comments change and resends webmentions for them
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snarfed
(not the original reason, but no matter)
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tantek
that's actually pretty amazing - sending updates
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kylewm
Blogger api has a review process too but for a different reason presumably
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snarfed
interesting, yeah, i think that was originally to throttle adoption
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snarfed
and now may just be understaffed/stealth abandoned
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[kevinmarks]
The name for a quotation at the top of a chapter etc. is "epigraph". If it's from the article, it's a "pull quote"
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snarfed
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 190 karma
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tantek
what is an epigraph?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "epigraph" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BR
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tantek
(since KartikPrabhu has an example)
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tantek
what is a pull quote?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pull quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BS
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[kevinmarks]
An epigraph is a quotation at the top of a chapter or essay that usually gives context for what is to follow.
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loqi.me
created /epigraph (+133) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452884395171 and dfn added by [kevinmarks]"
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[kevinmarks]
A pull quote is a short quotation from the article displayed in larger type to attract the eye of someone skimming the page.
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loqi.me
created /pull_quote (+149) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452884413090 and dfn added by [kevinmarks]"
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[kevinmarks]
So my p-summary on my homepage are often pull quotes
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[kevinmarks]
Now wondering if I should add p-epigraph
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tantek
if you want to just for your own purposes, make it a p-kevinmarks-epigraph
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tantek
if you want to as an experiment to see if others will also do so, p-x-epigraph
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tantek
but first, start /epigraph#IndieWeb_Examples with both yours and KartikPrabhu's (see earlier / yesterday logs)
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@kevinmarks
@hunterwalk @fmanjoo well, post type discovery is a process that depends on what properties the post has https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery
(twitter.com/_/status/688077289498673153)
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tantek
So Medium is becoming, being treated as, just another blogging silo: https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/688074565973483520
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@fmanjoo
It’s interesting to be that people have started calling Medium posts “blog posts” when they are specifically not that.
(twitter.com/_/status/688074565973483520)
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tantek
(lol on that whole thread about what is a blog)
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[kevinmarks]
This sounds like a description of how standards decay https://twitter.com/girlziplocked/status/688073984433348609
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aaronpk
wow that's quite the thread
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tantek
"First of all, an abstraction is made from a fact; then it [the fact] is based on the abstraction. That is how to proceed if you want to appear German, profound and speculative." - Marx & Engels, The German Ideology https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0717803023
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aaronpk
[kevinmarks]: that sounds like the experiment with chimps, bananas and a ladder
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tantek
KevinMarks: except philosophers and (some) semweb folks skip the "First of all" step, starting with pure abstractions detached from any facts, or based on what could be, not what is.
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petermolnar
so the question is: if a (b)log entry is taken out of context - the (b)log itself - will it lose being a (b)log entry?
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petermolnar
(b)log because of weblog
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petermolnar
[kevinmarks] I admire your patience for twitter arguments
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tantek
Frye: can't tell if it's patience or a long-troll.
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tantek
KevinMarks: how could an *article* provide a meaningful *epigraph*?!? Aren't epigraphs supposed to be short and to the point?
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tantek
thank you for making my point :D ^^^
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petermolnar
what is a long-troll?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "long-troll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BT
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petermolnar
what is a short-troll?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "short-troll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BU
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petermolnar
a long-troll is a big, bad, Old Norse Troll from the Scandinavian folklore
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loqi.me
created /long-troll (+99) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452886319699 and dfn added by petermolnar"
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petermolnar
(sorry, Friday evening)
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[kevinmarks]
You extract the epigraph from the article.
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[kevinmarks]
Eg “The anxiety over what to call "writing that lives on the Web" stems in part from changes in publishing technology. ”
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[shaners]
tantek et al: Do you see anything obvious missing from my DM documentation on the wiki that I should add? https://indiewebcamp.com/darkmatter
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Loqi
[shaners]: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 44 minutes ago: great on lauching DarkMatter on your own site http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452873703128
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tantek
shaners, great documentation start. nice and simple and direct.
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tantek
and congrats on the switchover!!!
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[shaners]
Thanks Tantek KartikPrabhu! It feels good to actually be working on the thing that’s powering my site instead of something that will be powering my site in some speculative future. :smile:
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[shaners]
tantek: it’s been a long time coming
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aaronpk
so it's live now?
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[shaners]
aaronpk: sure is
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tantek
shaners, did you post about the switchover / launch on your own site?
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aaronpk
wooo! congrats!
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tantek
is scrolling through that
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aaronpk
wow you imported content back to 2004! nice
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[shaners]
Heck yes
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[shaners]
One of the trade offs of how I’d been posting content to my site the past few years is that I already had all of the import scripts written. Which I re-ran everytime I wanted to post something.
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jgarber
Nice work, shaners!
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[shaners]
I’m still not posting to my site first *yet* because I don’t have Twitter POSSE built. But soon...
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tantek
shaners - if you wrote a post about the switchover of your site to DM, could you add a link to that in https://indiewebcamp.com/2016-01-01-commitments#Additional_2016-01_launches ?
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[shaners]
I was secretly trying to get done by 2016-01-01 but no laptop complicated that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tantek
important thing is you launched!
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tantek
now we're just waiting on aaronpk ;) (no pressure :D)
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aaronpk
wahhhhh
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aaronpk
i'm planning on taking off a little early today and working on my import script. also I have monday off!
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[shaners]
godsspeeds to you, apk
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[shaners]
aaronpk: I also wrote my seeds.rb in such a way that it automatically looks for a file for each post type in a certain place. If it exists, it runs it. That way, others can write their own import scripts for their posts without having to worry about me or them accidentally checking it into the repo.
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[shaners]
Another Rails-ism of convention of configuration. :wink:
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[shaners]
jgarber thanks!
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@veganstraightedge
On 2016-01-10 I launched my site running my #indieweb publishing software, Dark Matter. Now the real work starts. http://veganstraightedge.com
(twitter.com/_/status/688089890043506688)
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[shaners]
The only way that I’m able to do any meaningful writing for the IWC wiki is to do it a text file in TextMate in .mediawiki mode.
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[shaners]
Writing in the browser in that textarea is real frustrating. For anything more than small edits.
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aaronpk
offlinefirst++
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Loqi
offlinefirst has 2 karma
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2016/MIT (+3144) "Pew"
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veganstraightedge.com
edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+527) "Add Dark Matter to 2016-01 launches"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2016/MIT (+65) "/* RSVP */ Eventbrite now live"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
created /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+5252) "create guest list page"
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: aaronpk: i added you both to the gues list page for MIT 2016 when i created it... or really just didn't remove you when i copied it. Hope you don't mind, If you have time, grab a ticket on eventbrite?
sknebel, j12t, wolftune, tantek and [shaners] joined the channel
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[shaners]
Everyone knows the technique of putting <wbr> tags in your displayed (and optionally autolinked) URLs at each “/“ to allow long URLs to wrap to the next line instead of expanding the viewport, rigth?
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[shaners]
s/rigth/right/
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Loqi
[shaners] meant to say: Everyone knows the technique of putting <wbr> tags in your displayed (and optionally autolinked) URLs at each “/“ to allow long URLs to wrap to the next line instead of expanding the viewport, right?
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aaronpk
i've only done that with css
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singpolyma
aaronpk++
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Loqi
singpolyma: petermolnar left you a message on 1/13 at 6:19am: pingbacks _were_ are widely supported. Nowadays they are widely ignored or considered spam. It'd need additional magic to support types - like, fav, reply, repost, etc -, and by a short research, none blogger or blogspot supports it (any more?). The support you're referring to is long gone, maybe except for WordPress where it's ignored. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-13/line/1452694774920
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Loqi
aaronpk has 53 karma
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[shaners]
how do you do it in css, aaronpk ?
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aaronpk
word-wrap: break-word; I think
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[shaners]
that’d be a lot easier if that Just Works™
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[shaners]
is checking
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aaronpk
oh it's breaking on hyphens, that's not an example
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aaronpk
hm I guess I don't have it doing that. mine is set to text-overflow:ellipsis
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[shaners]
I just tested it locally. Your CSS does the trick it seems. Thanks!
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[shaners]
Gonna change that now
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[shaners]
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 54 karma
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[shaners]
I tested it with this “URL"
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[shaners]
lorem.ipsum/dolor/sit/amet/consectetur/adipisicing/elit/sed/do/eiusmod/tempor/incididunt/ut/labore/et/dolore/magna/aliqua/Ut/enim/ad/minim/venia/quis/nostrud/exercitation/ullamco/laboris/nisi/ut/aliquip/ex/ea/commodo/consequat/Duis/aute/irure/dolor/in/reprehenderit/in/voluptate/velit/esse/cillum/dolore/eu/fugiat/nulla/pariatur/Excepteur/sint/occaecat/cupidatat/non/proident/sunt/in/culpa/qui/officia/deserunt/mollit/anim/id/est.php
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Loqi
css has -1 karma
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Loqi
css has 0 karma
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[shaners]
what what< ben_thatmustbeme ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
css was a -2?
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ben_thatmustbeme
who was hating on css?
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petermolnar
i guess someone had a hard time with css earlier
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kylewm
you're surprised because css is so easy and universally loved?
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snarfed
s/someone/everyone/
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ben_thatmustbeme
better than alternatives
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ben_thatmustbeme
by a long shot
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snarfed
"less bad"
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petermolnar
alternatives? where?
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Loqi
css has 1 karma
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[shaners]
Let’s all just slowly back away from debating CSS vs *. For the good of all of the channel. :smile:
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ben_thatmustbeme
petermolnar: read "images and tables"
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petermolnar
I honestly started thinking of a website in pure svg
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll go with shaners on this one, not going to go down this road
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KevinMarks
and you get what he wants with li label {display:table-cell;}
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KevinMarks
pure SVG has the xml draconian problem though
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[shaners]
Please abort, everyone.
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kylewm
aaronpk: did you say the other day that your new site saves the full path of each post in a field? like you'd like up a post by searching for path="2016/01/the-slug"
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aaronpk
you realize karma is shared across all channels Loqi is in right? it wasn't necessarily someone here who did css--
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kylewm
as opposed to searching for year=2016, month=01 and slug=the-slug
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aaronpk
kylewm: no I don't think I said that
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kylewm
oh, do you do one of those?
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KevinMarks
bootstrap--
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Loqi
bootstrap has -3 karma
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aaronpk
my pages are looked up by year month day index, and then once the page is found, redirects to whatever the proper slug is
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aaronpk
so you can actually type whatever you want as the slug and you'll get taken to the correct page
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kylewm
oh ok, i knew your old site worked that way, didn't know if you kept that feature
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[shaners]
do you have year, month, day, and index columns in your db table?
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kylewm
can you set custom nicknames for pages though?
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aaronpk
[shaners]: no, the pages are looked up from disk in that case
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kylewm
at Mozilla SF, I think you showed me that venues were posts, but could have their own nickname
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aaronpk
kylewm: there's two ways of handling that
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aaronpk
there is a "p3k-slug" property in my storage. if it begins with a slash it's treated as an absolute slug and that's how I can give a page a url like /mozilla-sf. but if it doesn't start with a slash, it's a relative slug and becomes /2015/11/01/1/mozilla-sf
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kylewm
oh wow interesting
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kylewm
on wordpress sites does the slug have to be unique?
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snarfed
kylewm: yes
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snarfed
i think that's right
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snarfed
ducks all followup questions
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kylewm
paging GWG
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snarfed
kylewm: just embrace the mystery, you'll be happier for it
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kylewm
I should tell you why I'm asking :P I want to know how they allow customizable permalink styles
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Loqi
I agree
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kylewm
and so I was wondering if it's just using the slug as a unique identifier across all posts
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snarfed
when it routes based on slug, at a high level i believe so yes
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snarfed
and maybe only when you use custom permalinks
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snarfed
i don't really know so i'll stop talking now :P
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gRegorLove
Those two WP slugs should be permitted.
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gRegorLove
Presuming the YYYY MM and DD parts of those URLs are also WP pages.
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gRegorLove
reads back for more context
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gRegorLove
Nvm, I think I'm wrong there.
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gRegorLove
WP adds a lot of class names based on the template, post ID, and I think the slug, to the <body> so that might be how CSS is customized. That's the way I've done it in the past.
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[shaners]
kylewm: fwiw, i plan to store per post css on the post itself in the db. then put it in a <style> right before the <article class=“h-entry”> and dynamically generating the #id in front the rules.
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[shaners]
My #id will prolly be a slugged version of the post’s path:
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[shaners]
/notes/2016/01/10/foo => #notes-2016-01-10-foo
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kylewm
mmmhmm
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[shaners]
I’ll prolly use sass at request time to wrap each per post rule in that dynamic #id without having to regex into user entered css
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aaronpk
looks forward to scoped styles being more widely supported
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[shaners]
but then again, that wouldn’t allow a user to style the whole site, just the post itself
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[shaners]
i can imagine a situation where i want to blow away the whole site’s theme for this one page/post and use completely custom css.
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[shaners]
or something
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[shaners]
Maybe that’s a setting I’ll give along with the per-post css field.
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[shaners]
“ Remove site theme? [_] ”
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[shaners]
Dunno. I’ll burn that bridge when I get there.
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aaronpk
cross?
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[shaners]
Whichever.
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[shaners]
Sometimes you have to burn a thing down.
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[shaners]
Says the person who spent 5 years rebuilding his site to the person who’s spent over a year doing the same.
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aaronpk
hey i'm still <1 year!
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aaronpk
barely
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[shaners]
Oh! I thought you passed a year.
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[shaners]
Good luck! You can do it!
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aaronpk
i'm not quite sure the exact date but I think it was april
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[shaners]
Look at your git logs?
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[shaners]
Or on GitHub?
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aaronpk
i think June
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[shaners]
Oh that’s nothing
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aaronpk
i started with a few different repos, trying to find the earliest date
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aaronpk
June 14
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aaronpk
but I started thinking about it earlier
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aaronpk
and more importantly, stopped development on my current site earlier
tantek joined the channel
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[shaners]
I stopped a long time ago too. But then I would hot fix a thing or two here and there.
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[shaners]
I just added auto-linking #hashtags and @usersnames (to twitter, for now) and auto-embedding a bunch of different media.
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[shaners]
In Notes only
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KartikPrabhu
is reading the what is a blog argument on Twitter
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KartikPrabhu
has stopped reading that
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petermolnar
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 127 karma
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aaronpk
I can't think of a reason why that discussion is useful
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[shaners]
KartikPrabhu, yeah dont bother with those kinda things
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KartikPrabhu
yup took < 1s to close tab ;)
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[shaners]
Anytime we find ourselves reading one of those things, we should instead go work on our site.
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KartikPrabhu
theoretical physics preps you to spot useless arguments ;)
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[shaners]
With auto-embeds, my feed just got way more interesting.
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KartikPrabhu
[shaners]: a small comment on http://veganstraightedge.com/ the light text is too light to read. (I know hovering darkens it)
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KartikPrabhu
what is epigraph?
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Loqi
epigraph is a quotation at the top of a chapter or essay that usually gives context for what is to follow https://indiewebcamp.com/epigraph
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KartikPrabhu
does epigraph need to be on a "chapter"? What about a page on a site or a h-feed?
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KartikPrabhu
what is pull quotes?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pull quotes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BV
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KartikPrabhu
what is pull quote?
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Loqi
pull quote is a short quotation from the article displayed in larger type to attract the eye of someone skimming the page https://indiewebcamp.com/pull_quote
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KevinMarks
maybe 'section' is a bette word - it is
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loqi.me
created /pull_quotes (+23) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452897457296 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
they would be epigraphs, yes
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KevinMarks
"a short quotation or saying at the beginning of a book or chapter, intended to suggest its theme." sez google
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KartikPrabhu
cool noting as examples then
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /epigraph (+225) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
Is <html lang=*> the best way to indicate the language of a page? Even if it's just the main body content that's in another language, the menu remaining in English?
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gRegorLove
Or is there a scoped language attribute?
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KartikPrabhu
lang is supposed to be scoped to the element
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gRegorLove
Ok, thanks. Looks like I should keep <html lang="en"> and then lang="es" around the appropriate text.
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[shaners]
Here’s my current micro dilemma:
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[shaners]
Which Flickr tag page should I like from my tags pages (See also: #indieweb on Twitter, IG, Flickr, etc)?
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tantek
"like"?
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tantek
a search is not a tag
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[shaners]
s/like/link/
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tantek
that's a common error
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tantek
even Technorati's VP of engineering and produce lead made that mistake
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KartikPrabhu
i would say the tag page and not the search page
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[shaners]
tantek: hashtags didn’t exist back then
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tantek
shaners, doesn't matter. hashtags are just a new syntax to explicit tags.
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[shaners]
I know that. But hashtags get used in titles, descriptions and as explicit tags.
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tantek
the meaning hasn't changed
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tantek
just the usability
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tantek
tags are always explicit, and should only return results which themselves are also explicitly tagged
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tantek
instead of terms just being mentioned
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KevinMarks
or to make inline mentions explict
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tantek
right
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tantek
catches up on logs
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tantek
shaners, wbr doesn't work
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tantek
it causes copy/paste uglies
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[shaners]
When someone says “#indieweb dinner” as their photo title, would you say that they’re explicitly tagging that photo with “indieweb”?
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tantek
given today's convention
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tantek
hashtags as punctuation are here to stay
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[shaners]
(re wbr: I abandoned wbr and switched to css already. you’ll see in the logs as you catch up.)
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tantek
they've literally made a universal-language independent punctuation addition
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tantek
shaners, right, I was just providing the reason to avoid wbrs
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tantek
instead of just beating the monkey ;)
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[shaners]
:+1::skin-tone-2:
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tantek
aaronpk - need a citation for that study
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tantek
or is the monkeys ladder bananas thing considered folklore?
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[shaners]
So. Given a #hashtag is an explicit tag but can be in any field (not just as a Tag™), the only way to link to all photos with said hashtag on Flickr is to link to their search page of that hashtag.
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tantek
no on Flickr they don't have hashtags, only explicitly entered tags AFAIK
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tantek
unless something changed in their UI
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tantek
the point is, don't confuse syntax for sematics
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tantek
s/sematics/semantics
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: the point is, don't confuse syntax for semantics
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tantek
in this the semantic is "explicitly tagged"
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tantek
the syntax of whether that is with a # in front inline text, or via some separate text entry UI - is irrelevant
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tantek
flickr's tag links are as follows:
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tantek
flickr.com/photos/tags/indieweb
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tantek
anything with "search" is including non-explicit tag results, and thus MUST be avoided as a link from a "hashtag"
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tantek
css++ btw ;)
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Loqi
css has 2 karma
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aaronpk
tantek: either way it's a cute story
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aaronpk
and illustrates a point whether or not it's a real study :)
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tantek
aaronpk: you're going to make me wikipedia this aren't you
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[shaners]
tantek: I feel like we’re talking past each other. I’ll try a specific example.
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aaronpk
that seems different
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tantek
if someone types "#indieweb" into the title or description or a commen on Flickr, it is NOT a hashtag because flickr doesn't auto-link it, nor surface it in results
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tantek
s/commen/comment
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: if someone types "#indieweb" into the title or description or a comment on Flickr, it is NOT a hashtag because flickr doesn't auto-link it, nor surface it in results
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tantek
so it should be ignored
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[shaners]
They do autolink #hashtags in title / description.
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tantek
not in the title
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tantek
yes in the description
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tantek
oh darn, js
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tantek
title only links via js
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tantek
description links via html
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tantek
ok so they've updated that
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[shaners]
Thank you. I thought we gonna turn into an abbot and costello bit.
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tantek
but note that all the hashtags in the title & description are also visible in the "Tags" list in the sidebar
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tantek
so the fact that they are linked in title & description is irrelevant
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[shaners]
I see that.
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tantek
they were auto-propagated (by someone/something) to the sidebar
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tantek
thus all you have to do is link via the /photos/tags/... URL
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[shaners]
Were they?
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tantek
no search URL needed nor desired
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tantek
doesn't matter "were they?" - because they obviously already are
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tantek
how they got there is irrelevant
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tantek
you can code purely based on the end result
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tantek
ignoring the plumbing/etc that caused it
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[shaners]
Tags are not being auto populated from #hashtags in title
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tantek
how do you know?
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tantek
that benwerd photo had them
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[shaners]
That URL right above? Click on it. Go to it. Read it.
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[shaners]
I just uploaded an image with the title “#hashtag to tags test"
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tantek
oh haha meta
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[shaners]
There are no explicit Tags added
endi joined the channel
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tantek
yeah ok that's a flickr bug
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[shaners]
So. How I interpret this is:
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[shaners]
1. As a user I *explicitly* tagged this photo with “hashtag” by using “#hashtag” in my title.
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KevinMarks
when I do I am
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[shaners]
2. Regardless of what Flickr does with that information, that’s my intent as a user (as is the convention of The Now).
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tantek
the answer is: just use bridgy to auto-tag it all for you :P
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tantek
bridgy publish that is, to POSSE to Flickr
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tantek
I'm about to do this
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[shaners]
3. Because /photos/tags/hashtag doesn’t include photos that are #hashtagged but not Tagged, the only way to link to a page that include BOTH #hashtagged and Tagged photos is to link to a search page of “#hashtag”.
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tantek
except when you link to a search it includes false positives, which add noise to the results and make it not worth it
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[shaners]
4. Whether or not I use Bridgy to autotag all of MY content is, as you say, irrelevant because I’m linking to a silo which contains other people’s content too. And I can’t assume that they hashtagged and Tagged their things.
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tantek
seems silly to compromise your UX with noisy results to work around a Flickr bug
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[shaners]
5. It appears that Flickrs search for a #hashtag doesn’t include false positives
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tantek
nope it does
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tantek
trivial proof
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tantek
same #s
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tantek
133,216 total
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tantek
ergo searching for #hashtag shows all "hashtag" mentions too
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tantek
= noise
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[shaners]
Yeah. Are we not having the same conversation?
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[shaners]
Oh. You’re saying “hashtag” not “#hashtag”. My bad.
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tantek
your statement 5 is false
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tantek
provably so with the URLs I provided and compared
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tantek
just tried #tshirt vs tshirt
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tantek
same result
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tantek
and now one more experiment
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[shaners]
Can you show me a photo that has the text “tshirt”, but not the Tag “tshirt” or the text “#tshirt”?
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[shaners]
That’s where I’m failing to see an example
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KevinMarks
it is now very hard to search for # explicitly
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tantek
just check the oldest results
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tantek
which predate hashtags
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tantek
since Flickr predates hashtags
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[shaners]
I was only flipping through more recent ones
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[shaners]
for its linked hashtags.
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tantek
Twitter's search results are different with or without #
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[shaners]
Ok. So linking to Twitter’s search results page for a #hashtag search seems ok then?
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tantek
(which is one of my favorite funny URLs in recent history)
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tantek
malkovich malkovich?
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tantek
or yo dawg
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[shaners]
Ah. That makes me so happy.
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tantek
right?!?
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[shaners]
A. Bout. Time. Twitter.
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[shaners]
And this redirects (client side) http://twitter.com/#hashtag
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tantek
I wonder if benward_ had something to do with that
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tantek
watch this
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tantek
:cryinghappy:
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@t
🗽 Dear New York City, 🌐 In one week we are coming to liberate your websites. 🌈 Join us: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC (ttk.me t4fF2)
(twitter.com/_/status/688148568188698625)