#indiewebcamp 2016-01-15

2016-01-15 UTC
lukebroo_ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /original-post-discovery (+237) "/* Implementations */ kartik" (view diff)
#
tantek anyone have (or know of) a personal site with favorite quote(s) on the home page (like footer or sidebar?)
hoplo2 and sparverius joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /favorite_quotes (+150) "added quotes to homepage" (view diff)
#
tantek what is year in review?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "year in review" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BK
#
tantek Year in Review is a feature on some silos (like Facebook) as well as being a special kind of article on some indieweb sites.
#
loqi.me created /Year_in_Review (+151) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452818645791 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
tantek.com edited /Year_in_Review (+862) "linky, indieweb examples, silo examples, see also" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Facebook (+22) "/* Features */ Year in Review" (view diff)
hoplo2 and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
stefanovski.io edited /IRC_People (-28) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
hoplo2 and Lancey joined the channel
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Year_in_Review (+481) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Year_in_Review (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
lukebrooker and snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek some interesting stuff here about HTTPS related decisions: https://www.w3.org/blog/2016/01/w3-org-supporting-https-and-hsts/
#
tantek in particular: "We’re not planning at this point of time to enforce server redirection of all HTTP requests to HTTPS ones for public resources. This is due to avoid breaking older software that can’t be upgraded, such as those in built-in devices."
j12t and shiflett joined the channel
#
endi I have a question related to https redirects and indiewebify.me. I followed Apache's stated preferred redirect (Redirect permanent "/" "https://stefanovski.io") yet indiewebify.me says insecure redirection
#
endi I'm not so much asking what the correct config is, but why that is considered insecure redirect, as it is the one recommended by the documentation. perhaps I should ask in #httpd but I thought I might get this groups' opinions why
wolftune and tantek joined the channel
#
GWG I wonder what is going on.
#
Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
#
kylewm endi: I think that's a bug in indiewebify.me
[aaronpk] joined the channel
#
[aaronpk] endi: the insecure redirect is when you provide an HTTP URL as the input and then it redirects to HTTPS.
#
[aaronpk] If you enter the HTTPS URL as the input to indiewebify you shouldn't see the warning
snarfed and hoplo2 joined the channel
#
sixtwothree.org edited /User:Sixtwothree.org (-154) "Update projects and working on sections post-site re-launch." (view diff)
tantek joined the channel
#
endi kylewm: ah ok. I went over my configs with #httpd just to make sure and cleaned some stuff up so, not a waste to look over them :)
#
endi yeah, if I type in https before the URL it works fine, my concern was why I was getting an insecure redirect warning and more importantly to make sure my redirect was proper and secure
tantek and snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed facebook denied bridgy for the user_action.news permission :/ they claimed they couldn't figure out how to use it
#
snarfed resubmitted with more detailed instructions. fingers crossed!
nitot, lukebrooker and Gold joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu is youtube's JS/CSS completely messed up for anyone else?
#
KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: nice text representation of RSVP here: https://twitter.com/t/status/687775657376362497 It would be cool to document so that webmention endpoints can parse this as an RSVP if it comes directly from twitter
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
KartikPrabhu !tell tantek same for other response types
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
nitot_ joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what is rsvp?
#
Loqi An RSVP is a type of post that is a reply to an event post https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp
#
KartikPrabhu what is text first design
#
Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first_design
friedcell and cweiske joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu what is favorite quote
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "favorite quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BL
#
KartikPrabhu what is favorite quotation
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "favorite quotation" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BM
#
KartikPrabhu what is favorite quotes
#
Loqi favorite quotes is a feature of some silo profiles (like Facebook), where a user can add quotes that resonates particularly strongly with them or are sufficiently self-describing as to be part of their self-description or bio https://indiewebcamp.com/favorite_quotes
#
KartikPrabhu favorite quote is /favorite_quotes
#
loqi.me created /favorite_quote (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842950794 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
KartikPrabhu what is favourite quote
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "favourite quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BN
#
KartikPrabhu favourite quote is /favorite_quotes
#
loqi.me created /favourite_quote (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452843060817 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
KartikPrabhu what is favourite quotes
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "favourite quotes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BP
#
KartikPrabhu favourite quotes is /favorite_quotes
#
loqi.me created /favourite_quotes (+28) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452843097192 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
kartikprabhu.com edited /favorite_quotes (+12) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ add approximate date" (view diff)
cweiske and sanduhrs joined the channel
#
@t Documented 2 more social (silo) web features: https://indiewebcamp.com/favorite_quotes https://indiewebcamp.com/Year_in_Review and #indieweb ... http://tantek.com/2016/014/t3/documented-social-web-features (twitter.com/_/status/687907050790096897)
KartikPrabhu1, tantek and e-lima joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: do quotes on pages count as /favourite_quotes ? eg: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers
#
tantek "on pages" is vague - so no, not without further context
#
Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 24 minutes ago: nice text representation of RSVP here: https://twitter.com/t/status/687775657376362497 It would be cool to document so that webmention endpoints can parse this as an RSVP if it comes directly from twitter http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842134794
#
Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 24 minutes ago: same for other response types http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-14/line/1452842149523
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: thanks! (re: RSVP) - feel free to document on /RSVP#Brainstorming
#
tantek re: use of a quote at top of https://kartikprabhu.com/papers - it's use there is more like a header, than an indicator of a favorite
#
KartikPrabhu fair enough
#
tantek I have seen that literary device before however
#
tantek many books have chapters where each chapter starts with a quote
#
KartikPrabhu it is common in academic theses
#
KartikPrabhu sometimes chapters in a thesis start with quotes
#
tantek there may be a specific name for that literary device but I don't know what it is
#
KartikPrabhu me neither
#
tantek something like "introductory quote"
#
KartikPrabhu i have such quotes on other pages and also on error pages ;)
#
tantek it's like featured photos, just because the photos are there at the top of articles, it does not make them favorite photos
#
KartikPrabhu yeah
#
tantek KartikPrabhu, hah, I already apparently started braindumping as I started designing my RSVP posts: https://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#Text_Design
#
tantek feel free to add your own observations, cite specific examples you see as relevant etc.!
#
KartikPrabhu nice. I was more asking about an algorithm to parse them so that if someone sends a webmention from a tweet URL I can see it as a reply/like/rsvp
#
KartikPrabhu for example: it might be useful to use twitter as a marginalia posting
#
KartikPrabhu like shepazu was asking for a while ago
#
tantek.com edited /rsvp (+68) "/* Text Design */ implemented a couple more since" (view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu similarly bridgy publish at the moment only POSSEs likes to other tweets, but this way it could make a text-representation of a like to any post
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: yes - I understand the use-case for such an algorithm, my point is that by documenting the real world examples you find, it brings us *closer* to coming up with a sensible algorithm based upon real world examples.
#
KartikPrabhu for sure
#
KartikPrabhu alright gotta cash out... too late here
#
tantek that being said, feel free to *also* capture your "Use-case for an algorithm" in /RSVP#Brainstorming as well, with the exact explanation you gave above
#
tantek same same
#
tantek but please do take a look at adding those tomorrow morning!
#
KartikPrabhu bonne buit!
#
KartikPrabhu s/buit/buit
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: bonne buit!
#
KartikPrabhu oh come on!
#
KartikPrabhu bye!
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] I forget if I mentioned this in channel or not. On 2016-01-10, I flipped the switch on my site (veganstraightedge.com) from the 6 year old pile of codebase that wasn’t reusable by anyone else to (what I’m now calling) Dark Matter. Which has nothing in it that’s custom to me / my site.
#
[shaners] What is Dark Matter?
#
Loqi Dark Matter is a personal publishing platform project (created with Ruby on Rails) by Shane Becker and Bookis Worthy https://indiewebcamp.com/Dark_Matter
#
[shaners] Time to update that wiki page now that it’s finally not vaporware.
#
petermolnar morning
#
petermolnar anyone who operates their own mail stack: I've got 4 ips this morning trying to send mail in my domain name, so I suggest to implement DMARC p=reject if you're running your own stack
#
petermolnar oh
#
petermolnar not 4
#
petermolnar at least 10 o.O
#
veganstraightedge.com created /sound (+19) "redirect /sound to /audio" (view diff)
#
veganstraightedge.com created /review (+22) "Redirected page to [[h-review]]" (view diff)
adactio joined the channel
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Dark_Matter (+1950) "Expand Dark Matter documentation" (view diff)
tvn joined the channel
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Dark_Matter (+1008) "More Dark Matter docs" (view diff)
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Dark_Matter (+25) "Add external URL to Dark Matter site" (view diff)
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /Dark_Matter (+18) "/* Dark Matter Platform */" (view diff)
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /selfdogfood (-63) "/* testing your code in production */" (view diff)
Pierre-O, singpolyma, sanduhrs, e-lima, jgmac1106 and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
jgmac1106 I tried to make my syllabus using HTML/JS/CSS tried to make my syllabus in Thimble. Failed miserably: http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2016/i-cant-make-what-i-want-teachtheweb-i-was-trying
#
jgmac1106 would have helped if I knew responsive CSS and JS first
mxuribe, cweiske, ben_thatmustbeme, sknebel, modem_, tvn_, sanduhrs, elima_, snarfed, jgmac1106, shiflett, jgarber, singpolyma, KartikPrabhu, rhiaro and MrClaw joined the channel
#
jgarber Logging back in for the first time in quite awhile and see the message about registering/identifying my IRC nickname. Should I do that and, if so, is the format `/msg NickServ REGISTER`…?
#
Loqi jgarber: snarfed left you a message on 8/23 at 11:43am: just added an FB API workaround to bridgy that may send you more FB responses on old posts of yours. curious if you see any within the next day or so. enjoy! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-23/line/1440355381370
#
petermolnar jgarber: https://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration; according to that "/msg NickServ REGISTER password youremail@example.com"
#
jgarber petermolnar: Thanks!
#
petermolnar how does one search in the public IRC logs for #indiewebcamp?
#
petermolnar the reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIFuxMl-vs - I wonder if we have a translation and/or transscript for it, I'd be interested what the contents are
#
kylewm petermolnar: google's the only way to search the logs publicly :/ channy was translating a bunch of the Getting Started type pages to Korean a while back
#
KartikPrabhu !tell [shaners] great on lauching DarkMatter on your own site
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
petermolnar I've found that, I'm just curious, because the video looks promising
ttepasse and hoplo2 joined the channel
#
kylewm !tell tantek is the text on http://tantek.com/2016/015/f2 intentionally very small?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: that is the response context I think
John_Duh joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: oh actually maybe not. The reply context here: http://tantek.com/2016/003/t2/domain-name-add-indieweb-building-blocks seems normal size so maybe tantek does it for likes
hs0ucy, elima, tvn, snarfed, tantek and wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek aww shaners you didn't like the most interesting production code tester in the world?
#
Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 10 minutes ago: is the text on http://tantek.com/2016/015/f2 intentionally very small? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452874125137
#
tantek kylewm: yeah that was a side-effect of some other CSS change, I should fix that
#
tantek http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5269/5616559901_8ca0186c11_z.jpg
tantek_, AngeloGladding and obensource joined the channel
#
snarfed has anyone gone through instagram's new API review process yet? http://developers.instagram.com/post/133424514006/instagram-platform-update
#
snarfed aaronpk iirc you might have? anyone else?
#
snarfed curious to hear experiencse
#
tantek what is an API review process?
#
aaronpk I haven't yet, I need to rename ownyourgram first
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "API review process" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BQ
#
aaronpk because I know that won't get past the review
#
tantek curious to hear of what silos request/require them, and for what purposes/permissions
#
tantek at least we can start documenting it ^^^
cleverdevil joined the channel
#
snarfed i'm considering applying for bridgy, but also somewhat scared
#
snarfed but they'll force it eventually, so might as well prepare
#
aaronpk bridgy isn't taking photos out of instagram so i would be less scared
#
snarfed right
hs0ucy and Pierre-O joined the channel
#
snarfed ugh instagram review process requires a screencast too
#
aaronpk wow
#
snarfed that'll be my third for bridgy so far, whee
#
snarfed i'll get to that eventually. here's the rest of what i've written up: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603#issuecomment-172043765
#
aaronpk nice
#
snarfed i'm being slightly disingenuous and using the word "notify" for webmentions, as opposed to e.g. "copy," to downplay the fact that receivers generally store and display comments and likes that originated inside instagram
#
snarfed meh
#
aaronpk bridgy is sending a notification, seems fair :)
#
snarfed :P weasel wording
#
aaronpk bridgy isn't even copying the data either ;)
#
snarfed (it actually is, shhh :P)
#
aaronpk (i thought bridgy didn't store anything?)
#
snarfed it does
#
snarfed >10G currently
#
aaronpk omg
#
aaronpk haha
#
Loqi rofl
#
snarfed not "big," but not exactly small either
tantek joined the channel
#
snarfed one reason bridgy stores everything is that it detects when comments change and resends webmentions for them
#
snarfed (not the original reason, but no matter)
#
tantek that's actually pretty amazing - sending updates
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm Blogger api has a review process too but for a different reason presumably
#
snarfed interesting, yeah, i think that was originally to throttle adoption
#
snarfed and now may just be understaffed/stealth abandoned
#
snarfed tantek: thanks! https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention-spec#Updating_existing_webmentions
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] The name for a quotation at the top of a chapter etc. is "epigraph". If it's from the article, it's a "pull quote"
#
snarfed KevinMarks++
#
Loqi KevinMarks has 190 karma
#
tantek what is an epigraph?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "epigraph" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BR
#
tantek (since KartikPrabhu has an example)
#
tantek what is a pull quote?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pull quote" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BS
#
[kevinmarks] An epigraph is a quotation at the top of a chapter or essay that usually gives context for what is to follow.
#
loqi.me created /epigraph (+133) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452884395171 and dfn added by [kevinmarks]" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
[kevinmarks] A pull quote is a short quotation from the article displayed in larger type to attract the eye of someone skimming the page.
#
loqi.me created /pull_quote (+149) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452884413090 and dfn added by [kevinmarks]" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
[kevinmarks] So my p-summary on my homepage are often pull quotes
#
[kevinmarks] Now wondering if I should add p-epigraph
#
tantek if you want to just for your own purposes, make it a p-kevinmarks-epigraph
#
tantek if you want to as an experiment to see if others will also do so, p-x-epigraph
#
tantek but first, start /epigraph#IndieWeb_Examples with both yours and KartikPrabhu's (see earlier / yesterday logs)
#
@kevinmarks @hunterwalk @fmanjoo well, post type discovery is a process that depends on what properties the post has https://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery (twitter.com/_/status/688077289498673153)
#
tantek So Medium is becoming, being treated as, just another blogging silo: https://twitter.com/fmanjoo/status/688074565973483520
#
@fmanjoo It’s interesting to be that people have started calling Medium posts “blog posts” when they are specifically not that. (twitter.com/_/status/688074565973483520)
#
tantek (lol on that whole thread about what is a blog)
#
[kevinmarks] This sounds like a description of how standards decay https://twitter.com/girlziplocked/status/688073984433348609
#
@girlziplocked [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/688073984433348609)
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk wow that's quite the thread
#
tantek "First of all, an abstraction is made from a fact; then it [the fact] is based on the abstraction. That is how to proceed if you want to appear German, profound and speculative." - Marx & Engels, The German Ideology https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0717803023
#
aaronpk [kevinmarks]: that sounds like the experiment with chimps, bananas and a ladder
#
aaronpk http://i.snag.gy/kdu77.jpg
#
tantek KevinMarks: except philosophers and (some) semweb folks skip the "First of all" step, starting with pure abstractions detached from any facts, or based on what could be, not what is.
jgmac1106 joined the channel
#
petermolnar so the question is: if a (b)log entry is taken out of context - the (b)log itself - will it lose being a (b)log entry?
#
petermolnar (b)log because of weblog
#
[kevinmarks] This article could provide an epigraph for post type discovery http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2010/10/this_is_not_a_blog_post.2.html
#
petermolnar [kevinmarks] I admire your patience for twitter arguments
#
tantek Frye: can't tell if it's patience or a long-troll.
#
tantek KevinMarks: how could an *article* provide a meaningful *epigraph*?!? Aren't epigraphs supposed to be short and to the point?
#
@kevinmarks @fmanjoo @ewolffmann @wfederman I send my blog posts to medium too - that's what we call POSSE http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/688080929365954560)
#
tantek thank you for making my point :D ^^^
#
petermolnar what is a long-troll?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "long-troll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BT
#
petermolnar what is a short-troll?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "short-troll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BU
#
petermolnar a long-troll is a big, bad, Old Norse Troll from the Scandinavian folklore
#
loqi.me created /long-troll (+99) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452886319699 and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
petermolnar (sorry, Friday evening)
#
[kevinmarks] You extract the epigraph from the article.
shiflett joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Eg “The anxiety over what to call "writing that lives on the Web" stems in part from changes in publishing technology. ”
[shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] tantek et al: Do you see anything obvious missing from my DM documentation on the wiki that I should add? https://indiewebcamp.com/darkmatter
#
Loqi [shaners]: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 44 minutes ago: great on lauching DarkMatter on your own site http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452873703128
wolftune and j12t joined the channel
#
tantek shaners, great documentation start. nice and simple and direct.
#
tantek and congrats on the switchover!!!
#
[shaners] Thanks Tantek KartikPrabhu! It feels good to actually be working on the thing that’s powering my site instead of something that will be powering my site in some speculative future. :smile:
#
[shaners] tantek: it’s been a long time coming
#
aaronpk so it's live now?
#
[shaners] And we’ve got a plan forward. https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/milestones
#
[shaners] aaronpk: sure is
#
tantek shaners, did you post about the switchover / launch on your own site?
#
aaronpk wooo! congrats!
#
[shaners] http://veganstraightedge.com
#
tantek is scrolling through that
#
aaronpk wow you imported content back to 2004! nice
#
[shaners] Heck yes
#
[shaners] One of the trade offs of how I’d been posting content to my site the past few years is that I already had all of the import scripts written. Which I re-ran everytime I wanted to post something.
#
jgarber Nice work, shaners!
#
[shaners] I’m still not posting to my site first *yet* because I don’t have Twitter POSSE built. But soon...
#
tantek shaners - if you wrote a post about the switchover of your site to DM, could you add a link to that in https://indiewebcamp.com/2016-01-01-commitments#Additional_2016-01_launches ?
#
[shaners] Sure!
#
[shaners] I was secretly trying to get done by 2016-01-01 but no laptop complicated that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#
tantek important thing is you launched!
#
tantek now we're just waiting on aaronpk ;) (no pressure :D)
#
aaronpk wahhhhh
#
aaronpk i'm planning on taking off a little early today and working on my import script. also I have monday off!
#
[shaners] godsspeeds to you, apk
#
[shaners] aaronpk: I also wrote my seeds.rb in such a way that it automatically looks for a file for each post type in a certain place. If it exists, it runs it. That way, others can write their own import scripts for their posts without having to worry about me or them accidentally checking it into the repo.
#
[shaners] Another Rails-ism of convention of configuration. :wink:
#
[shaners] jgarber thanks!
mlncn joined the channel
#
@veganstraightedge On 2016-01-10 I launched my site running my #indieweb publishing software, Dark Matter. Now the real work starts. http://veganstraightedge.com (twitter.com/_/status/688089890043506688)
#
@kevinmarks https://medium.com/@nayafia/how-i-stumbled-upon-the-internet-s-biggest-blind-spot-b9aa23618c58 @nayafia is spot on about funding open source work, but this applies to standards work too. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/688090110152151040)
#
mlncn.withknown.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+309) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
#
[shaners] The only way that I’m able to do any meaningful writing for the IWC wiki is to do it a text file in TextMate in .mediawiki mode.
#
[shaners] Writing in the browser in that textarea is real frustrating. For anything more than small edits.
#
aaronpk offlinefirst++
#
Loqi offlinefirst has 2 karma
#
rhiaro.co.uk edited /2016/MIT (+3144) "Pew" (view diff)
elima and tantek_ joined the channel
#
veganstraightedge.com edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+527) "Add Dark Matter to 2016-01 launches" (view diff)
#
ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT (+65) "/* RSVP */ Eventbrite now live" (view diff)
jgarber joined the channel
#
ben.thatmustbe.me created /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+5252) "create guest list page" (view diff)
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: aaronpk: i added you both to the gues list page for MIT 2016 when i created it... or really just didn't remove you when i copied it. Hope you don't mind, If you have time, grab a ticket on eventbrite?
sknebel, j12t, wolftune, tantek and [shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Everyone knows the technique of putting <wbr> tags in your displayed (and optionally autolinked) URLs at each “/“ to allow long URLs to wrap to the next line instead of expanding the viewport, rigth?
#
[shaners] s/rigth/right/
#
Loqi [shaners] meant to say: Everyone knows the technique of putting <wbr> tags in your displayed (and optionally autolinked) URLs at each “/“ to allow long URLs to wrap to the next line instead of expanding the viewport, right?
#
aaronpk nope
#
aaronpk i've only done that with css
#
singpolyma aaronpk++
#
Loqi singpolyma: petermolnar left you a message on 1/13 at 6:19am: pingbacks _were_ are widely supported. Nowadays they are widely ignored or considered spam. It'd need additional magic to support types - like, fav, reply, repost, etc -, and by a short research, none blogger or blogspot supports it (any more?). The support you're referring to is long gone, maybe except for WordPress where it's ignored. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-13/line/1452694774920
#
Loqi aaronpk has 53 karma
#
[shaners] how do you do it in css, aaronpk ?
jvalleroy joined the channel
#
aaronpk word-wrap: break-word; I think
#
[shaners] ORLY!?
#
[shaners] that’d be a lot easier if that Just Works™
#
[shaners] is checking
#
aaronpk here's one http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2016/01/08/2/
#
aaronpk oh it's breaking on hyphens, that's not an example
hoplo2 joined the channel
#
aaronpk hm I guess I don't have it doing that. mine is set to text-overflow:ellipsis
#
[shaners] I just tested it locally. Your CSS does the trick it seems. Thanks!
#
[shaners] Gonna change that now
#
[shaners] aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 54 karma
#
aaronpk neat
#
[shaners] I tested it with this “URL"
#
[shaners] lorem.ipsum/dolor/sit/amet/consectetur/adipisicing/elit/sed/do/eiusmod/tempor/incididunt/ut/labore/et/dolore/magna/aliqua/Ut/enim/ad/minim/venia/quis/nostrud/exercitation/ullamco/laboris/nisi/ut/aliquip/ex/ea/commodo/consequat/Duis/aute/irure/dolor/in/reprehenderit/in/voluptate/velit/esse/cillum/dolore/eu/fugiat/nulla/pariatur/Excepteur/sint/occaecat/cupidatat/non/proident/sunt/in/culpa/qui/officia/deserunt/mollit/anim/id/est.php
#
ben_thatmustbeme css++
#
Loqi css has -1 karma
#
petermolnar css++
#
kylewm hehe
#
Loqi css has 0 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme wait, what?
#
[shaners] what what< ben_thatmustbeme ?
#
ben_thatmustbeme css was a -2?
#
ben_thatmustbeme who was hating on css?
#
petermolnar i guess someone had a hard time with css earlier
#
kylewm you're surprised because css is so easy and universally loved?
#
snarfed s/someone/everyone/
#
ben_thatmustbeme better than alternatives
#
ben_thatmustbeme by a long shot
#
snarfed "less bad"
#
petermolnar alternatives? where?
#
[shaners] css++
#
Loqi css has 1 karma
#
[shaners] Let’s all just slowly back away from debating CSS vs *. For the good of all of the channel. :smile:
#
ben_thatmustbeme petermolnar: read "images and tables"
#
ben_thatmustbeme lol
#
petermolnar :d
#
KevinMarks mind you, I just read this: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2016/01/15/subgrids-considered-essential/
#
petermolnar I honestly started thinking of a website in pure svg
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'll go with shaners on this one, not going to go down this road
#
KevinMarks and you get what he wants with li label {display:table-cell;}
#
KevinMarks pure SVG has the xml draconian problem though
#
[shaners] Please abort, everyone.
#
kylewm aaronpk: did you say the other day that your new site saves the full path of each post in a field? like you'd like up a post by searching for path="2016/01/the-slug"
#
aaronpk you realize karma is shared across all channels Loqi is in right? it wasn't necessarily someone here who did css--
#
kylewm as opposed to searching for year=2016, month=01 and slug=the-slug
#
aaronpk kylewm: no I don't think I said that
#
kylewm oh, do you do one of those?
#
KevinMarks bootstrap--
#
Loqi bootstrap has -3 karma
#
aaronpk my pages are looked up by year month day index, and then once the page is found, redirects to whatever the proper slug is
#
aaronpk so you can actually type whatever you want as the slug and you'll get taken to the correct page
#
kylewm oh ok, i knew your old site worked that way, didn't know if you kept that feature
#
aaronpk yep!
#
[shaners] do you have year, month, day, and index columns in your db table?
#
kylewm can you set custom nicknames for pages though?
#
aaronpk [shaners]: no, the pages are looked up from disk in that case
#
[shaners] oic
#
kylewm at Mozilla SF, I think you showed me that venues were posts, but could have their own nickname
#
kylewm so it might be /2015/11/01/1 or /mozilla-sf
#
aaronpk kylewm: there's two ways of handling that
#
aaronpk there is a "p3k-slug" property in my storage. if it begins with a slash it's treated as an absolute slug and that's how I can give a page a url like /mozilla-sf. but if it doesn't start with a slash, it's a relative slug and becomes /2015/11/01/1/mozilla-sf
#
aaronpk briefly mentioned here https://docs.p3k.io/p3k-slug
#
kylewm oh wow interesting
#
kylewm on wordpress sites does the slug have to be unique?
#
snarfed kylewm: yes
#
snarfed well
#
kylewm i can't have /2015/11/21/homebrew-website-club and /2016/01/13/homebrew-website-club
#
kylewm ?
#
snarfed i think that's right
#
snarfed ducks all followup questions
#
kylewm paging GWG
#
snarfed kylewm: just embrace the mystery, you'll be happier for it
#
kylewm I should tell you why I'm asking :P I want to know how they allow customizable permalink styles
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
Loqi I agree
#
kylewm and so I was wondering if it's just using the slug as a unique identifier across all posts
hoplo2 joined the channel
#
snarfed when it routes based on slug, at a high level i believe so yes
#
snarfed and maybe only when you use custom permalinks
#
snarfed i don't really know so i'll stop talking now :P
#
gRegorLove Those two WP slugs should be permitted.
#
gRegorLove Presuming the YYYY MM and DD parts of those URLs are also WP pages.
#
gRegorLove reads back for more context
#
gRegorLove Nvm, I think I'm wrong there.
#
gRegorLove WP adds a lot of class names based on the template, post ID, and I think the slug, to the <body> so that might be how CSS is customized. That's the way I've done it in the past.
#
[shaners] kylewm: fwiw, i plan to store per post css on the post itself in the db. then put it in a <style> right before the <article class=“h-entry”> and dynamically generating the #id in front the rules.
#
[shaners] My #id will prolly be a slugged version of the post’s path:
#
[shaners] /notes/2016/01/10/foo => #notes-2016-01-10-foo
#
kylewm mmmhmm
#
[shaners] I’ll prolly use sass at request time to wrap each per post rule in that dynamic #id without having to regex into user entered css
#
aaronpk looks forward to scoped styles being more widely supported
#
[shaners] but then again, that wouldn’t allow a user to style the whole site, just the post itself
#
[shaners] i can imagine a situation where i want to blow away the whole site’s theme for this one page/post and use completely custom css.
#
[shaners] like a /portfolio page
#
[shaners] or something
#
[shaners] Maybe that’s a setting I’ll give along with the per-post css field.
#
[shaners] “ Remove site theme? [_] ”
#
[shaners] Dunno. I’ll burn that bridge when I get there.
#
aaronpk cross?
#
[shaners] Whichever.
j12t joined the channel
#
[shaners] Sometimes you have to burn a thing down.
#
[shaners] Says the person who spent 5 years rebuilding his site to the person who’s spent over a year doing the same.
#
aaronpk hey i'm still <1 year!
#
aaronpk barely
#
[shaners] Oh! I thought you passed a year.
#
[shaners] Good luck! You can do it!
#
aaronpk i'm not quite sure the exact date but I think it was april
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
[shaners] Look at your git logs?
#
[shaners] Or on GitHub?
#
aaronpk i think June
#
[shaners] Oh that’s nothing
#
aaronpk i started with a few different repos, trying to find the earliest date
#
aaronpk June 14
#
aaronpk but I started thinking about it earlier
#
aaronpk and more importantly, stopped development on my current site earlier
tantek joined the channel
#
[shaners] I stopped a long time ago too. But then I would hot fix a thing or two here and there.
#
[shaners] I just added auto-linking #hashtags and @usersnames (to twitter, for now) and auto-embedding a bunch of different media.
#
[shaners] For example, http://veganstraightedge.com/notes/2016/01/15/rt-niwandajones-for-those-who-need-it-i-present
#
[shaners] In Notes only
#
KartikPrabhu is reading the what is a blog argument on Twitter
#
KartikPrabhu has stopped reading that
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 127 karma
#
aaronpk I can't think of a reason why that discussion is useful
#
[shaners] KartikPrabhu, yeah dont bother with those kinda things
#
KartikPrabhu yup took < 1s to close tab ;)
#
[shaners] Anytime we find ourselves reading one of those things, we should instead go work on our site.
#
KartikPrabhu theoretical physics preps you to spot useless arguments ;)
#
[shaners] With auto-embeds, my feed just got way more interesting.
#
KartikPrabhu [shaners]: a small comment on http://veganstraightedge.com/ the light text is too light to read. (I know hovering darkens it)
#
KartikPrabhu what is epigraph?
#
Loqi epigraph is a quotation at the top of a chapter or essay that usually gives context for what is to follow https://indiewebcamp.com/epigraph
#
KartikPrabhu does epigraph need to be on a "chapter"? What about a page on a site or a h-feed?
#
KartikPrabhu what is pull quotes?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pull quotes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BV
#
KartikPrabhu what is pull quote?
#
Loqi pull quote is a short quotation from the article displayed in larger type to attract the eye of someone skimming the page https://indiewebcamp.com/pull_quote
#
KartikPrabhu pull quotes in /pull_quote
#
KartikPrabhu pull quotes is /pull_quote
#
KevinMarks maybe 'section' is a bette word - it is
#
loqi.me created /pull_quotes (+23) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-15/line/1452897457296 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
KartikPrabhu so this counts https://kartikprabhu.com/papers ?
#
KartikPrabhu and this: https://kartikprabhu.com/404 ?
#
KevinMarks they would be epigraphs, yes
#
KevinMarks "a short quotation or saying at the beginning of a book or chapter, intended to suggest its theme." sez google
#
KartikPrabhu cool noting as examples then
#
kartikprabhu.com edited /epigraph (+225) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me" (view diff)
#
gRegorLove Is <html lang=*> the best way to indicate the language of a page? Even if it's just the main body content that's in another language, the menu remaining in English?
#
gRegorLove Or is there a scoped language attribute?
#
KartikPrabhu lang is supposed to be scoped to the element
#
KartikPrabhu see: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Global_attributes
#
gRegorLove Ok, thanks. Looks like I should keep <html lang="en"> and then lang="es" around the appropriate text.
tantek and [shaners] joined the channel
#
[shaners] Here’s my current micro dilemma:
#
[shaners] Which Flickr tag page should I like from my tags pages (See also: #indieweb on Twitter, IG, Flickr, etc)?
#
[shaners] https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=%23indieweb OR
#
tantek "like"?
mattronix joined the channel
#
[shaners] https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/indieweb
#
tantek a search is not a tag
#
[shaners] s/like/link/
#
tantek that's a common error
#
tantek even Technorati's VP of engineering and produce lead made that mistake
#
KartikPrabhu i would say the tag page and not the search page
#
[shaners] tantek: hashtags didn’t exist back then
#
tantek shaners, doesn't matter. hashtags are just a new syntax to explicit tags.
#
[shaners] I know that. But hashtags get used in titles, descriptions and as explicit tags.
#
tantek the meaning hasn't changed
#
tantek just the usability
#
tantek tags are always explicit, and should only return results which themselves are also explicitly tagged
#
tantek instead of terms just being mentioned
#
KevinMarks or to make inline mentions explict
#
tantek right
#
tantek catches up on logs
#
tantek shaners, wbr doesn't work
#
tantek it causes copy/paste uglies
#
[shaners] When someone says “#indieweb dinner” as their photo title, would you say that they’re explicitly tagging that photo with “indieweb”?
#
tantek yes
#
tantek given today's convention
#
tantek hashtags as punctuation are here to stay
#
[shaners] (re wbr: I abandoned wbr and switched to css already. you’ll see in the logs as you catch up.)
#
tantek they've literally made a universal-language independent punctuation addition
#
tantek shaners, right, I was just providing the reason to avoid wbrs
#
tantek instead of just beating the monkey ;)
#
[shaners] kthx
#
[shaners] :+1::skin-tone-2:
#
tantek aaronpk - need a citation for that study
#
tantek or is the monkeys ladder bananas thing considered folklore?
#
[shaners] So. Given a #hashtag is an explicit tag but can be in any field (not just as a Tag™), the only way to link to all photos with said hashtag on Flickr is to link to their search page of that hashtag.
#
tantek no on Flickr they don't have hashtags, only explicitly entered tags AFAIK
#
tantek unless something changed in their UI
#
tantek the point is, don't confuse syntax for sematics
#
tantek s/sematics/semantics
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: the point is, don't confuse syntax for semantics
#
tantek in this the semantic is "explicitly tagged"
#
tantek the syntax of whether that is with a # in front inline text, or via some separate text entry UI - is irrelevant
#
tantek flickr's tag links are as follows:
#
tantek flickr.com/photos/tags/indieweb
#
tantek anything with "search" is including non-explicit tag results, and thus MUST be avoided as a link from a "hashtag"
#
tantek css++ btw ;)
#
Loqi css has 2 karma
#
aaronpk tantek: either way it's a cute story
#
aaronpk and illustrates a point whether or not it's a real study :)
#
tantek aaronpk: you're going to make me wikipedia this aren't you
#
tantek huh, no ladder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_and_banana_problem
#
[shaners] tantek: I feel like we’re talking past each other. I’ll try a specific example.
#
aaronpk that seems different
#
tantek if someone types "#indieweb" into the title or description or a commen on Flickr, it is NOT a hashtag because flickr doesn't auto-link it, nor surface it in results
#
tantek s/commen/comment
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: if someone types "#indieweb" into the title or description or a comment on Flickr, it is NOT a hashtag because flickr doesn't auto-link it, nor surface it in results
#
[shaners] https://www.flickr.com/photos/benwerd/9943771855/
#
tantek so it should be ignored
#
aaronpk try this: https://www.google.com/search?q=5+monkeys+and+a+ladder
#
[shaners] They do autolink #hashtags in title / description.
#
tantek not in the title
#
tantek yes in the description
#
tantek oh darn, js
#
tantek title only links via js
#
tantek description links via html
#
tantek wtf
#
tantek ok so they've updated that
#
[shaners] Thank you. I thought we gonna turn into an abbot and costello bit.
#
tantek but note that all the hashtags in the title & description are also visible in the "Tags" list in the sidebar
#
tantek so the fact that they are linked in title & description is irrelevant
#
[shaners] I see that.
#
tantek they were auto-propagated (by someone/something) to the sidebar
#
tantek thus all you have to do is link via the /photos/tags/... URL
#
[shaners] Were they?
#
tantek no search URL needed nor desired
#
tantek doesn't matter "were they?" - because they obviously already are
#
tantek how they got there is irrelevant
#
tantek you can code purely based on the end result
#
tantek ignoring the plumbing/etc that caused it
#
[shaners] https://www.flickr.com/photos/veganstraightedge/24035967329
#
[shaners] Tags are not being auto populated from #hashtags in title
#
tantek how do you know?
#
tantek that benwerd photo had them
#
[shaners] That URL right above? Click on it. Go to it. Read it.
#
[shaners] I just uploaded an image with the title “#hashtag to tags test"
#
tantek oh haha meta
#
[shaners] There are no explicit Tags added
endi joined the channel
#
tantek yeah ok that's a flickr bug
#
[shaners] So. How I interpret this is:
#
[shaners] 1. As a user I *explicitly* tagged this photo with “hashtag” by using “#hashtag” in my title.
#
KevinMarks when I do I am
#
[shaners] 2. Regardless of what Flickr does with that information, that’s my intent as a user (as is the convention of The Now).
#
tantek the answer is: just use bridgy to auto-tag it all for you :P
#
tantek bridgy publish that is, to POSSE to Flickr
#
tantek I'm about to do this
j12t joined the channel
#
[shaners] 3. Because /photos/tags/hashtag doesn’t include photos that are #hashtagged but not Tagged, the only way to link to a page that include BOTH #hashtagged and Tagged photos is to link to a search page of “#hashtag”.
#
tantek except when you link to a search it includes false positives, which add noise to the results and make it not worth it
#
[shaners] 4. Whether or not I use Bridgy to autotag all of MY content is, as you say, irrelevant because I’m linking to a silo which contains other people’s content too. And I can’t assume that they hashtagged and Tagged their things.
#
tantek seems silly to compromise your UX with noisy results to work around a Flickr bug
#
[shaners] 5. It appears that Flickrs search for a #hashtag doesn’t include false positives
#
tantek nope it does
#
tantek trivial proof
#
tantek compare https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=%23hashtag and https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=hashtag
#
tantek same #s
#
tantek 133,216 total
#
tantek ergo searching for #hashtag shows all "hashtag" mentions too
#
tantek = noise
#
[shaners] Yeah. Are we not having the same conversation?
#
[shaners] Oh. You’re saying “hashtag” not “#hashtag”. My bad.
#
tantek your statement 5 is false
#
tantek provably so with the URLs I provided and compared
#
tantek just tried #tshirt vs tshirt
#
tantek same result
#
tantek and now one more experiment
#
[shaners] Can you show me a photo that has the text “tshirt”, but not the Tag “tshirt” or the text “#tshirt”?
#
[shaners] That’s where I’m failing to see an example
#
KevinMarks it is now very hard to search for # explicitly
#
tantek just check the oldest results
#
tantek which predate hashtags
#
tantek since Flickr predates hashtags
#
[shaners] ok
#
[shaners] I was only flipping through more recent ones
#
[shaners] Twitter links to: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23indieweb
#
[shaners] for its linked hashtags.
#
tantek Twitter's search results are different with or without #
#
tantek and Twitter now has https://twitter.com/hashtag/hashtag
#
[shaners] Ok. So linking to Twitter’s search results page for a #hashtag search seems ok then?
#
tantek (which is one of my favorite funny URLs in recent history)
#
[shaners] ORLY!?
#
tantek :D
#
[shaners] Yes
#
tantek malkovich malkovich?
#
tantek or yo dawg
#
[shaners] Ah. That makes me so happy.
#
tantek right?!?
#
[shaners] A. Bout. Time. Twitter.
#
[shaners] And this redirects (client side) http://twitter.com/#hashtag
#
tantek I wonder if benward_ had something to do with that
#
tantek the /hashtag/hashtag support
#
[shaners] And /@username URLs work too. http://twitter.com/@t
#
tantek wow
#
tantek watch this
#
tantek https://twitter.com/search/hashtag
#
tantek :cryinghappy:
mattronix and endi joined the channel
#
@t 🗽 Dear New York City, 🌐 In one week we are coming to liberate your websites. 🌈 Join us: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC (ttk.me t4fF2) (twitter.com/_/status/688148568188698625)