2016-01-17 UTC
# 00:00 aaronpk well I did briefly but didn't see anything obvious
j12t joined the channel
# 00:03 KartikPrabhu1 aaronpk: I like how your "load more" button also changes the URL state. Nicely done
# 00:07 aaronpk it's pretty great seeing all my actual content in the new site!
# 00:07 aaronpk okay! I just finished notes, videos, photos and replies!
# 00:13 matrrix So presumably ownyourgram works by sending webmentions to your site?
# 00:13 aaronpk which includes the photo and video as a file upload
# 00:13 matrrix what is micropub?
# 00:14 aaronpk KartikPrabhu: kinda, I wouldn't call all of these post types anymore. for example "reply" was its own type
# 00:14 matrrix so for a static site generator you'd need a small stub server to take micropub requests and generate the static source or something
# 00:14 aaronpk but if a reply contained a photo, then it fell under the photo post type. and this is the weirdness of explicit post types :)
# 00:14 aaronpk matrrix: yep exactly! a few people have done that
# 00:14 KartikPrabhu yes... i think not having explicit post-types is a very good idea. keep it simple
# 00:15 matrrix aaronpk: interesting, thanks :)
j12t and snarfed joined the channel
# 01:29 gRegorLove Was there a Bridgy change recently to remove the "liked this" as an explicit p-name?
# 01:31 gRegorLove I should fix my implementation to not rely on it for likes, anyway, but it's giving me that "tag.facebook.com..." stuff currently.
# 01:33 snarfed interesting, i wonder if that's some mf2 algorithm. there's no e-content or p-name, so it takes the first text, which is the uid...?
# 01:34 snarfed anyway, yeah, sorry gRegorLove. we may have to recommend only using explicit e-content from bridgy, and generating your own otherwise
# 01:35 gRegorLove s'ok. Just a prompt to put my article 'likes' in a list as on my notes.
# 01:39 snarfed well, .h-entry > .p-uid, so i guess we're both right :P
# 01:40 gRegorLove The name value I got from that was "tag:facebook.com,2013:10101970668845904_liked_by_10152552936582019\n \n \n \n \n Chris Magnusson\n \n\n https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/27301982\/posts\/10101970668845904#liked-by-10152552936582019"
lukebrooker joined the channel
# 01:58 aaronpk next you should tailor the order of the list based on who's reading it ;)
# 01:59 snarfed hah, merrily hand waving through "who's reading it" :P
# 02:01 snarfed oh sure, obviously. i just expect uptake would be...um...low :P
j12t joined the channel
# 02:13 KartikPrabhu if you are not requesting new data using JS, then using JS for show/hide is overkill.
# 02:19 KartikPrabhu is thinking of ways to use that for marginalia instead of JS based toggle ;)
# 02:21 aaronpk which makes sense since my CSS knowledge was for the most part last updated in 2008
# 02:32 aaronpk darn, I just realized when I imported all my Strava rides, I didn't save the permalink as a syndication URL
# 02:33 aaronpk well I have all the data in my site, and it's all still on Strava, but they aren't linked
# 02:33 aaronpk and I didn't want to write a Strava import for this process, so i'm moving the data from my old site to my new site
# 02:33 aaronpk I think I don't care enough about Strava to fix this right now
wolftune, kbs, j12t and tantek joined the channel
j12t joined the channel
# 04:29 kylewm snarfed: we definitely don't want name = "liked this" anymore? I think it'd probably be good to set the name to "" if not.
lukebrooker, j12t, tantek, jedahan and wolftune joined the channel
wolftune joined the channel
# 06:57 tantek initial anaysis, hashtags from photo title did not automatically make it to Flickr tags
jedahan_ and lukebrooker joined the channel
# 07:36 tantek.com edited /Flickr (+438) "/* Bridgy Publish POSSE */ update! lots of support added, noted a few limitations with feature request issues" (
view diff )
# 07:48 tantek.com edited /Flickr (+0) "/* POSSE to Flickr */ Bridgy Publish and backfeed can be used for how to, note backfeed also supported since 2015-09-17" (
view diff )
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# 08:11 tantek.com edited /Falcon (+606) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ why posse to flickr, improved details on how, note manual POSSE attempt for reference" (
view diff )
# 08:30 tantek petermolnar: why the use of Category:WordPress_Examples ? Everywhere else on the wiki we merely keep lists of Examples inline
# 08:32 petermolnar the inline examples needs constant gardening; I'm yet to remove any, because I can't make this decision, but the wiki could get much cleaner, if the example descriptions were on the user pages only and it'd be referenced by the category
# 08:33 petermolnar at least this is how I'd like to do my relations to the indie blocks
# 08:33 tantek because the individual user pages are even less frequently updated
# 08:33 tantek so depending on them more is a flawed approach
# 08:34 petermolnar spreading semi-copy paste all over the wiki of my implementation is garbage
# 08:34 tantek it's not a matter of opinion, it is trivial to prove by looking t the edit histories of user: pages vs. topic pages
# 08:35 petermolnar are you comparing the entry of the user example edits on the topic page to the user page or the generic edits on a topic?
# 08:35 Loqi tantek meant to say: it's not a matter of opinion, it is trivial to prove by looking at the edit histories of user: pages vs. topic pages
# 08:35 tantek doesn't matter fair or not the incredibly low frequency of user page edits, *especially* by people other than the user, proves the point
# 08:36 tantek where was the inline example of your implementation?
# 08:36 tantek unfortunately the wordpress documentation on the wiki is in general out of date
# 08:37 tantek with the plugins, what plugins to install etc.
# 08:37 tantek what the page said vs. what people said in IRC was totally different
# 08:38 tantek and I had to fix it - as a non-wordpress user
# 08:38 tantek this is my point, the flaw you are finding is not about topics vs user pages
# 08:39 petermolnar tantek what I change is that I removed my explicit details from a few topic pages; most were out of date already, and instead, put a reference there; I done this only for myself
# 08:39 tantek it was the massmodification of other pages with the category: thing that I was questionining
# 08:41 petermolnar could this be put on the front page, please? I've been attending to this channel for a while, and never thought of searching for 'wikify'
# 08:41 tantek putting it on the front page won't help - that assumes everyone reads everything on the front page
# 08:42 tantek which, when it gets more crowded, people read even less of what is already there
# 08:42 tantek we did a lot of work to simplify the front page, deliberately
# 08:42 tantek also - nearly every week someone here chats to a new person about wikifying their itches etc.
nitot, raretrack, John_Duh and catsup joined the channel
j12t, loic_m, Lancey, Pierre-O, John_Duh_, catsup, elima, yakker, jgmac1106, minsky and tantek joined the channel
# 16:40 tantek Hmm - I'm suspicious of whether FB really keeps photos "forever" or not.
John_Duh and snarfed joined the channel
# 16:44 tantek I'm looking at old (2 yrs +) public photo albums from a public page and they appeared to not load
# 16:45 snarfed 2y isn't very old, i'm guessing it's something else
# 16:51 tantek ooh! ok, that might enough for me to auto-markup hashtags in my notes with p-category
wolftune joined the channel
# 16:57 tantek I'm totally about to edit a two year old note post to put the photo at the top, thus making it a photo post
# 16:58 tantek fixing the link to the img (which broke since I posted it 2 years ago - thanks fb cdn), and linking to the page the photo is in
# 16:59 tantek in case you have any insight into why that may have happened
# 17:00 snarfed nope, only that bugs happen, and they usually don't mean anything deeper
j12t, ttepasse and benborges joined the channel
# 17:47 tantek.com edited /Falcon (+141) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ note I can make progress by implementing some #-hashtag detection in CASSIS auto_link" (
view diff )
# 17:51 tantek kylewm++ for adding p-category detection/tagging support to Bridgy Publish to Flickr!
j12t joined the channel
# 18:11 aaronpk woohoo! done with car2go/bike/runs import script now!
John_Duh joined the channel
# 18:12 GWG I use it, but not sure regardless
# 18:14 aaronpk getting close! remaining post types: eat/drink, flight/train, pushups, sleep, weight, presentations and collections
# 18:17 kylewm GWG: to be clear, you use php-mf2-shim but don't know whether it works?
# 18:17 tantek see this is why I'm going to restore that image on testing
# 18:33 aaronpk next up i'm turning "pushups" into a generic "workout" post
# 18:34 aaronpk also making extensive use of h-measure for these things
[shaners] joined the channel
# 18:42 tantek expect a bunch more traffic from that Zeldman tweet
# 18:43 tantek shaners, there is no h-measure - nothing has been properly developed yet
# 18:43 tantek nor hmeasure for that matter even historically
# 18:47 aaronpk well look forward to some examples of h-measure in the wild :)
# 18:48 aaronpk tantek: ha that makes me want to add a tweet button to pages that have a short enough dfn
# 18:50 tantek legacy naming due to the Google attempt at doing so
# 18:51 tantek Twitter also conflates the pop-up "dialog" as the "web intent" as well
# 18:53 aaronpk he edited the dfn and removed "their" in order to make it fit on twitter
# 18:56 aaronpk twitter's button lets the site suggest tweet text
# 18:56 tantek hey petermolnar did you mean to delete my previous edits?
# 18:57 voxpelli aaronpk: would that be part of the button rather than part of the article metadata?
# 18:57 voxpelli aaronpk: thinking similar data is often needed for Micropub syndication, right?
# 18:59 voxpelli Personally I try to avoid prefix led tweet texts to some degree as I find it better to encourage personal tweets
# 19:02 tantek ^^^ Loqi you really ought to respond to those on Twitter ;)
j12t joined the channel
# 19:03 tantek not really, not many folks ask such short what is questions of jargon
# 19:06 voxpelli aaronpk: Sharing quotes like that is a good use case for indie-action prefilled messages, didn't think about that
# 19:07 aaronpk in order to do that with Loqi, he would have to search using the streaming API for "what is", and then pare down the results for from there
# 19:08 tantek aaronpk: or vice versa, just pare down the existing streaming API search for "what is "
# 19:08 tantek instead of having Loqi answer all what is questions, only what is questions about what he already searches for!
# 19:08 tantek jargon is a specific unobvious concept, or re-use of a word to mean something other than its common meaning.
# 19:09 aaronpk there's too many wiki pages for Loqi to search for "what is webmention" "what is jargon" etc
# 19:09 tantek that's what I'm saying, only support it for the current set of terms that Loqi listens for, e.g. webmention, micropub, indieweb, indiewebcamp etc.
# 19:10 tantek I was thinking MVH - minimum viable helpfulness (or humor ;) )
# 19:10 tantek so if someone tweets what is term-that-Loqi-searches-Twitter-for
# 19:11 aaronpk well a quick twitter search for those turns up about one tweet each, ever
# 19:25 GWG Trying to figure out Venue properties. Looking at the venue page in the wiki
# 19:32 tantek wonder if there will be a noticeable traffic spike today or not from that
singpolyma joined the channel
# 19:37 GWG What is the tendency? Revisiting the same venues, or regularly creating more?
# 19:37 kylewm happy to report php-mf2-shim works and is amazing
# 19:38 tantek GWG, I would guess that 90%+ of my checkins are to venues I've been to before.
# 19:38 tantek obviously that % starts small and likely grows until it approaches some asymptote
# 19:39 GWG For me, I must often use location properties when visiting interesting places, over checking in to my local hangout.
# 19:41 GWG kylewm: It is more of a permissions issue. Twitter doesn't require an application ID to read a page.
# 19:42 kylewm "Call to a member function getAttribute() on null"
# 19:42 GWG kylewm: I wonder what else we can shimmy.
# 19:43 kylewm I've basically given up on doing anything with facebook in general unless I have to
# 19:44 GWG kylewm: I only asked because those are the two shims in there
# 19:46 tantek what do people think of IG's hashtags that can include any emoji character?
# 19:47 tantek I'm looking at adding hashtag auto-p-category markup to CASSIS auto_link and leaning towards only Twitter-style hashtags
# 19:47 tantek that is, not supporting detection of hashtag emojis
# 19:48 Loqi singpolyma meant to say: how do you decide which printable characters are not allowed?
# 19:48 Zegnat The only problem I see with emojis in hashtags is the same as with punctuation in hashtags: things might be included as part of the tag that the writer did not intend to be included.
# 19:49 tantek singpolyma: thinking more which *are* allowed
# 19:50 singpolyma Do people use emoji as punctutation often? They're more like pictograms in use I see </anecdotal>
# 19:50 Zegnat I personally end a lot of texts with an emoji to show the mood (and thus context) of the thought
# 19:51 tantek singpolyma there are emoji punctuation like â—ï¸â“”¼ï¸â‰ï¸â”â•
# 19:51 tantek Zegnat could you add an example/link or two of yours doing that to ^^^
# 19:52 Zegnat Not presently, as my Facebook is pretty locked down on the privacy settings. But I bet I could find some on the public web. I will have a look around
# 19:57 kylewm asking because indieweb/php-mf2 is "Copyright (c) 2013 G5"
# 19:58 Loqi tantek meant to say: is that Barnaby's thing?
# 20:02 kylewm looks like it was copy/pasted from the Ruby parser
wolftune and j12t joined the channel
# 20:14 Zegnat Any reason, if you want to go with Twitter’s syntax, for not just pulling in Twitter’s regex?
# 20:19 Zegnat Well, the regexes might not be perfect, but whenever you want to know what Twitter allows in hashtags or usernames it is a great resource
# 20:22 Zegnat Definitely. Yours would not even allow diaereses.
Pierre-O joined the channel
# 20:29 tantek.com edited /hashtags (+105) "/* Brainstorming */ put Twitter's regex link at top, note non-international (english-only) limitation of the short regexes" (
view diff )
# 20:32 tantek I'm punting on implementing English-only hashtags. I don't think that would set a very good example. Especially when twitter already has open source to be more international friendly.
# 20:32 tantek And that's a project that's big enough for another day. No quick hack hashtag auto-markup today.
# 20:50 GWG tantek: I may seek your advice on Friday/Saturday in person. You have a way of putting things into simple and clear perspective.
# 20:58 GWG tantek: The number of subjects I feel I need put in simple and clear perspective makes things seem less simple.
# 20:59 GWG I can't even boil down the question..."What do we want WordPress to be able to do to be Indieweb friendly?"
lukebrooker joined the channel
# 21:09 GWG Correct. I'm not prepared to tackle Wordpress.com right now
# 21:09 GWG I'm thinking the open source project
# 21:10 tantek which in that case, here is a rephrasing: How can we make it easier for those who run WordPress on their sites to have more indieweb support?
# 21:11 tantek and the answer should include - improve the Getting Started with WordPress page accordingly
# 21:11 tantek because it's still not trivial, and without that, someone with WordPress can't even participate in the community with editing the wiki etc.
# 21:11 tantek witness the experience we had with David Ascher recently
# 21:12 GWG tantek: I wish I had witnessed it.
# 21:12 tantek it's all logged - I'm looking for the start of it
# 21:12 GWG tantek: Yes, a bit later on. I read the log
# 21:13 GWG I want to figure out what core Indieweb features people agree on and try to unify them into a single plugin.
# 21:13 GWG However, I know there are good reasons for some of the other plugins to stay separate.
# 21:14 tantek GWG, "core IndieWeb features people agree on" is part of the purpose of IndieMark
# 21:14 tantek so rather than trying to "figure out what core Indieweb features people agree on", just go with what's already been figured out for IndieMark
# 21:16 GWG I just am trying to reassess. I got feedback that putting rel=me and rel=syndication together only made sense to me.
# 21:16 tantek well it only makes sense from a plumbing-centric (e.g. put rels together) perspective
# 21:16 tantek from a user-centric / feature perspective, it is unclear why the two are related at all
# 21:17 GWG They both refer to a relationship to another site.
# 21:17 GWG But, I think I just got one idea I want to try.
# 21:17 GWG If I remove things from Indiemark already built into WordPress as an exercise, what is left?
# 21:17 tantek GWG " refer to a relationship to another site." is plumbing, not the user feature effect
# 21:19 tantek and try to solve the confusion around the indieweb plugin indicated in that dialog
# 21:19 tantek nevermind the "already built into WordPress" things for now, start with the user-feedback you already got from davidascher
# 21:19 tantek (and indirectly from snarfed who thought the WordPress IndieWeb plugin was deprecated!)
# 21:20 GWG The plugin doesn't do much on its own. Which probably should be fixed.
j12t joined the channel
# 21:20 tantek Let's make it a goal for the next davidascher WordPress user to come along to have a more clear (not as confusing an) experience.
# 21:21 GWG Maybe that is where the rel=me code I wrote should be moved.
# 21:24 tantek Anything that someone is asked to install should immediately provide *some* value.
# 21:25 GWG The value right now for that plugin is only installing other plugins.
# 21:25 tantek that's plumbing only - that's not actually immediate user/feature value
# 21:25 GWG Achieving Indiemark Level 1 seems like a useful goal on top of installing other plugins.
# 21:26 tantek If the IndieWeb plugin got you to IndieMark Level 1 (or at least walked you through testing your site with indiewebify.me) that would be quite useful!
# 21:27 GWG tantek: At the last IWC in PDX, I recall two people were trying to make tutorials. I hoped they would appear, and we could integrate with them in the plugin. But that may be something to revisit. I'd love to find some volunteers just to help on that end. Not everyone is going to code, but documentation is nice.
# 21:29 tantek GWG, I don't really believe in separate tutorials
# 21:29 tantek the instructions / steps need to be so simple
# 21:29 tantek that you can just list a few things on the wiki
# 21:29 tantek there should be no need for a tutorial anywhere - nobody has time to read through a lenthy tutorial
# 21:29 tantek and if something needs lengthy instructions, it's probably poorly designed
# 21:29 GWG And I agree that I need to find the right simplification.
# 21:31 tantek GWG, btw, and other IWC NYC attendees - looks like we will be getting 1-3 inches of SNOW each day of IWC NYC!
# 21:33 GWG Lucky I'm taking public transportation
# 21:33 GWG But guess I'd better leave early.
# 21:34 tantek since when do weather websites *need* JS? seriously?!?
# 21:34 GWG Hmm...abundant sunshine on Sunday
# 21:35 tantek what better to do on a snowed in weekend than hack on the indieweb indoors?
# 21:35 GWG I only see it for Saturday anyway
KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
lukebrooker joined the channel
# 21:55 tantek hey aaronpk are you preserving your indieweb private messages?
catsup and almereyda joined the channel
# 22:16 petermolnar tantek, aaronpk yep, security is working on that thread, I can't see it :)
wolftune and snarfed joined the channel
# 22:46 snarfed eyes the instagram API lockdown announcement, sighs, starts to work on scraping IG's html
tantek, raucao, acegiak and MrClaw joined the channel
# 22:50 tantek snarfed: that really makes me want to make my IG private
# 22:51 tantek to direct people to view my photos from my site/feed instead
webhat joined the channel
# 22:51 tantek I may tie that to getting automated POSSE to Flickr working
# 22:51 tantek since Flickr has no such API shenanigans going on
# 22:52 tantek moving toward a world where I primarily use IG as a client for posting photos to my site, rather than a place for others to see my photos
j12t, brianloveswords, cleverdevil, ben_thatmustbeme, Gold, tommorris, bigbluehat, CaptainCalliope, acegiak and MrClaw joined the channel
Lancey and j12t joined the channel