#indiewebcamp 2016-01-18

2016-01-18 UTC
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GWG
I'm thinking of offering free accommodation to any Indiewebcamper who will shovel my snow for me.
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@georgkaser
Ein interessanter Artikel zur stärker werdenden #IndieWeb #Bewegung... http://known.georgkaser.com/2016/untitled-7
(twitter.com/_/status/688886138304638976)
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@jenmrapp
RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
(twitter.com/_/status/688886700676792320)
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aaronpk
!tell tantek I decided to make private messages a post-launch feature to not delay the new site
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed
!tell tantek hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk
[✓] train
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aaronpk
[✓] flights
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GWG
aaronpk: I have to see those two at some point
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@miklb
@aaronpk just noticed the WWW webmention.io doesn’t redirect. just a friendly heads up.
(twitter.com/_/status/688926592895180801)
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aaronpk
miklb: thanks
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aaronpk
GWG: this is what a flight looks like now. the new one is very similar http://aaronparecki.com/travel/2015/11/09/1/
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GWG
p-operator, p-transit-type, p-number?
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aaronpk
yeah i'm winging it
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GWG
Have you documented this concept somewhere?
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aaronpk
it's mostly written only as examples, but working on filling out the explanations http://docs.p3k.dev/Example-Posts
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GWG
I'm not so sure about p-number
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aaronpk
me either
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aaronpk
but i needed something that worked for train and flights
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GWG
Or operator, only because the word has multiple meanings
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GWG
On the other hand, you are enclosing it in an h-leg p-itinerary
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aaronpk
the crazy thing is this is actually my storage, so I have to make a decision in order to do anything
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aaronpk
but you will notice that what I publish on my site might be slightly different from the storage versions, so at least I can hold off on that aspect if I want
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GWG
aaronpk: I just want to help finalize it as I'd someday like to do something like flightmemory
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GWG
Which I've never done. But I probably could POSSE to it.
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aaronpk
i haven't seen that before but i will definitely check it out
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GWG
aaronpk: You keep better track of your past then I do.
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GWG
But I know I'd be fascinated to come back and see where I'd been, years later
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[shaners]
tantek kylewm aaronpk: wrt G5 listed as the copyright on php-mf2 (somehow), should I just go ahead and change that to public domain / CC0 like the other things?
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[aaronpk]
I could have sworn it had a different license. Can you check the history?
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[aaronpk]
lol oops
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[aaronpk]
Well then
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[aaronpk]
Change it to copyright Barnaby Walters then
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[aaronpk]
Since the license was already referenced in the composer.json file
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[shaners]
Looks like ben_thatmustbeme added it by copy/pasta from the ruby one
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[aaronpk]
And plz do it as a pull request so that we can add all these notes in the comments
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aaronpk
👍
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[shaners]
Personally though, I’d prefer it to be CC0 like the wiki.
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[shaners]
But I guess that’s barnaby’s call.
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aaronpk
yeah that's barnaby's call
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GWG
Has anyone heard from Barnaby of late?
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ben_thatmustbeme
pokes his head up
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GWG
Hi, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme
what'd i do wrong now?
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GWG
Something about licensing
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[aaronpk]
You copied the license from the Ruby parser verbatim including the copyright G5 part. It was also my fault for not noticing when I merged the PR
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, yeah, it had been brought up that the licensing info was only in the composer.json file,
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahhh, yeah, thats not right
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[shaners]
ben_thatmustbeme: Oh well. It’s all sorted now. :shrug:
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[shaners]
aaronpk: Here’s where my thinking is for DM’s weights/steps/etc posts.
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kylewm
man, <-- Newer | Older --> definitely falls under the "can't unsee" category for me
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[shaners]
kylewm: Is that in some pagination?
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kylewm
yeah like once t convinced me that Older should be to the left, the opposite really bugs me
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kylewm
Was just reading it! Great discussion
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KartikPrabhu
yeah so I am not very convinced that "older to left" is the way to go
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KartikPrabhu
specially combined with "reverse-chronology" of feeds
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@RikMende
RT @georgkaser IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the #IndieWeb https://indiewebify.me/
(twitter.com/_/status/689060655974973441)
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@thirdhandinfo
RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
(twitter.com/_/status/689093008835375109)
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aaronpk
[shaners] interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that completely, "activity" is a generic/overloaded term so pretty sure I want to avoid using that term
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@Social_Bitcoin
RT: DianneGreenlay: #Authors - wondering whether to use #Facebook ads? Read DavidPenny_'s case study http://www.selfpublishingadvice.org/?p=170119 via indieauth…
(twitter.com/_/status/689120530994188289)
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aaronpk
i'm struggling with my "presentations" post type
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aaronpk
trying to find what makes it a "presentation" if there are no slides attached to it
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snarfed
is it an announcement or recap of a presentation?
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aaronpk
yes, but usually with less written narrative
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aaronpk
I want the posts to appear on the date of the talk (not the date I made the post about it), I create these posts both before and after the talks, they sometimes include a link to slides or video
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Loqi
gives aaronpk the posts to appear on the date of the talk
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aaronpk
they also include the event name
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aaronpk
here's one from osbridge last year. looks like I need to update it to include the video now that it's been posted http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2015/06/24/1/micropub-osbridge
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aaronpk
here's what I've got so far. It doesn't actually treat these as a distinct post type, but includes the "view slides" link if the post has embedded slides, and shows the event name if the post is linked to an event
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aaronpk
maybe they are actually events
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aaronpk
would the name of an event (e.g. IndieWebCamp or Open Source Bridge) make sense as the name of an h-card?
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aaronpk
or does h-card only describe a physical location?
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aaronpk
a more user-centric version of the question is: does it make sense for the name of an event to appear the same way a physical location appears?
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aaronpk
I think the answer is "yes" for now
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aaronpk
and this means I can make all of my "presentation" posts into events
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aaronpk
which means less special-casing for the "presentation" post type
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tantek
Loqi, playback.
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Loqi
tantek: aaronpk left you a message 16 hours, 46 minutes ago: I decided to make private messages a post-launch feature to not delay the new site http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453078407753
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Loqi
tantek: snarfed left you a message 16 hours, 17 minutes ago: hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453080171891
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tantek
aaronpk: makes sense (private messages post-launch). Hoping that means that the permalinks will be restored though!
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aaronpk
yep they definitely will!
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aaronpk
(or will at least redirect to the new permalink for them)
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tantek
!tell snarfed totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
I think shaners had a similar request. That's enough itches to start looking into it and at least start documenting best practices.
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tantek
aaronpk - yes that counts :)
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tantek
re: presentation posts - hmm - I think maybe we have different understandings of what a presentation post is
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aaronpk
yeah, forget the name of them. what i'm actually trying to do is have a permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk, which collects information about the specific talk
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tantek
as in, I see (and post) a presentation as just the materials thereof. whereas *giving* a presentation I see as a *talk*
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tantek
"permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk" sounds like how I envision doing events
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aaronpk
information about the talk includes: date, location, event name, description, link to (or embedded) slides, link to (or embedded) video
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tantek
where the event's permalink is on the datetime of the event
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tantek
different from say, comments on the event
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tantek
a talk is just one kind of event
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aaronpk
i think my decision to actually store these as events follows that logic
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tantek
I mean from a user perspective even
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tantek
e.g. Lanyrd treats events in this way
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tantek
an event-centric user model
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tantek
then events can optionally have one or more speaker(s), organizer(s), attendee(s), etc.
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tantek
and any number of attached materials, slides, video, etc.
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tantek
but it's still an *event*
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tantek
not a *talk*, nor a *presentation*, but an *event*
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tantek
Lanyrd's user model makes a lot of sense to me in this way - because it follows the natural flow of what you would post about the event
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tantek
and any attached materials can be posted in-reply-to the event
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aaronpk
one of the things i'm confused about (or losing when I do this switch) is the association between a sub-event and the event that contains it.
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tantek
what's an example?
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aaronpk
"Open Source Bridge" is an event that runs 5 days. that event contains an event, "Intro to IndieAuth", which is 45 minutes long
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tantek
welcome adactio !
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tantek
did you post an event "Open Source Bridge" yourself?
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tantek
if not, then you just have one event
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aaronpk
I want the permalink for "Intro to IndieAuth" to somehow indicate it's part of Open Source Bridge
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Loqi
gives aaronpk the permalink for "Intro to IndieAuth" to somehow indicate it
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tantek
aaronpk: I wouldn't bother with that except to put the link to the session on the open source bridge site as one of the URLs of the event
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tantek
and then you leave the subevent problem up to them
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aaronpk
but I want to *show* that to people looking at these posts
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aaronpk
all of these posts on my site right now have the event name that they're part of as a primary piece of what you see http://aaronparecki.com/presentations
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tantek
show what to people? maybe share a sketch/screenshot of what you mean?
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aaronpk
I don't have a way to do that in the new site, except for setting the location name to "Open Source Bridge"
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tantek
that seems like a pollution of location as meaning
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aaronpk
so what do I do?
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tantek
looks at the link
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tantek
so really you're indicating parent event
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aaronpk
I currently break out the event name on these permalinks http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2015/06/24/1/micropub-osbridge
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tantek
or containing event
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tantek
not subevent
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aaronpk
that's what i was trying to say
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tantek
this is an important distinction
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tantek
checks the microformats wiki
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tantek
hmm - not finding anything
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tantek
hmm - looks like there's an old proposal for vcalendar-parent by tobyink in his hcalendar-1.1 fork.
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tantek
aside: I've always found the compsci usage of parent/child a horrible analogy/metaphor because rarely (if ever) do compsci parent/child relationships actually represent something that (co-)creates or raises or is responsible for something else.
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tantek
it's always a containment/hierarchy relationship in compsci, which is a fraction of (and at at that, not the most important part of) actual parent/child relationships
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tantek
so whoever came up with that analogy was frankly, wrong.
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aaronpk
I could add a property to my h-event storage called "part-of" where the value could be another h-event
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tantek
a human child is not physical part of a human parent. genes were passed on, but they were *copied*. there is no containment relationship
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tantek
that's why the compsci analogy / usage is incorrect and should be avoided
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aaronpk
lol, there's only a containment relationship for one of the parents for 9 months
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tantek
true!
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tantek
and that's not even a child per se, but a child-to-be
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aaronpk
the fact that it's true for only one of the parents makes that make even less sense
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tantek
and when you add more than one level, it makes even less sense
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tantek
except maybe for tribbles which are apparently born pregnant
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tantek
so no, let's reject the compsci misuse of parent/child
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tantek
the relationship here is of conceptual / organizational / temporal / and spatial containment
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tantek
the larger event, OSBridge, occurs over a broader timespan, and broader space (rooms etc.) than the individual session
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tantek
and organizationally the session is officially part of OSBridge
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aaronpk
"part of" is such an English-centric term for that. I'm pretty sure the equivalent term in other languages is not a direct translation
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tantek
(one could also imagine renegade subevents which were not officially part of OSBridge but tookover an OSBridge room during when OSBridge was happening)
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tantek
aaronpk, right, "part of" is very generic
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tantek
abstract even.
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tantek
perhaps we need to go deeper, more specific
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tantek
looks at aaronpk's examples again
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aaronpk
"occurs during"
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aaronpk
or "occurs within"
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tantek
all your example containing events are "conferences"
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aaronpk
that's because all those examples are talks
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aaronpk
trying to think of other examples i have that aren't talks
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tantek
I'm claiming that all your containing events are conferences
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tantek
whether or not your events themselves are talks/sessions/etc.
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tantek
right!
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aaronpk
yeah I think that is true for all my events
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aaronpk
well I am certainly not opposed to using "conference" for this. It makes the code and HTML very clear about what it's for.
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tantek
yeah, start with p-x-conference to make it clear it's experimental
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tantek
(I mean in the published form - use whatever you want in storage)
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tantek
or u-x-conference if you're linking to it
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tantek
because presumably the URL is more interesting to have
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tantek
and if you link to it and name it in the visible linktext, you could class="u-x-conference h-event" and have the name+link auto picked up
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aaronpk
i always want to show the name, so it will likely be <a href="http://exmaple.com" class="p-x-conference h-event">Conference Name</a>
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aaronpk
oops i meant u-x-
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tantek
right
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tantek
why the extra markup?
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aaronpk
makes the template easier
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tantek
you only need one element for that
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tantek
ugh that's a horrible reason to publish extra markup
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tantek
do you need it for a particular styling effect?
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aaronpk
why? it makes it easier for me to maintain
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tantek
because people learn by view source
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tantek
and all of us IndieWeb Generation 1 people should be publishing optimum markup for people to learn from
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tantek
in contrast to the bloated carp the silos publish
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aaronpk
okay I just refactored a whole bunch of stuff, and also now the markup is smaller
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aaronpk
I need an icon that represents a conference
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aaronpk
i'm already using a calendar to represent the date
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[kevinmarks]
Is a hashtag for the containing event a way to do it?
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aaronpk
hm maybe the "many users" icon
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[shaners]
Morning, yall.
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[kevinmarks]
I just realised that my noterlive.com derived transcripts don't have the hashtag in that the individual tweets do
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tantek
kevinmarks you have all sorts of containment challenges in your posts and transcripts :)
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aaronpk
maybe a ticket stub?
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tantek
that sounds like a concert icon
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tantek
or a movie
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aaronpk
i think i'm going with "users" for now http://pk.ngrok.io/2015/06/24/6/micropub-osbridge
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tantek
(some of those are really funny and/or sad)
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tantek
wow those icons are small aaronpk !
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aaronpk
i think everything kind of shrank in this new design
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tantek
if you could fit the people inside the calendar thing (instead of the grid), that could work
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aaronpk
hah. I think it would have to be bigger for that to work
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tantek
yes I was looking at your current site
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voxpelli
aaronpk: just stumbled in here and stumbled upon this discussion – u/p-x-conference sounds like something I might have use for
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tantek
voxpelli: do you have existing session posts that link to or mention the conference they're a part of?
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voxpelli
tantek: there's no announced sessions yet at the site I'm building but there are on the previous years (which others than me have built)
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tantek
aaronpk - even in the small icons, I bet you could fit two people (maybe slightly overlapping) inside the icon
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aaronpk
I will deal with that later. unfortunately making custom icons is a bit of work
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voxpelli
tantek: like http://2015.theconference.se/event/tuesday-aug-18/decision-and-choice-making/ – thinking all such sessions would be marked up as individual events with this markup and link to wider conference event
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tantek
aaronpk, like this one: 👥
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tantek
that should fit inside your calendar icon as a replacemnt for the grid
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tantek
whereas the "users" icon you have now looks more like it means "group" like a FB group
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voxpelli
tantek: since I arrived in the middle of this discussion – small question: would you say that this experimental property would be useful on a standalone conference page as well?
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tantek
sure!
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tantek
markup all the events with h-event though
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tantek
both sessions, and the overall conference
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snarfed
is embarrassed he still hasn't managed to mark up https://snarfed.org/talks or any of the other https://snarfed.org/lists after all this time. someday!
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 8 minutes ago: totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453138898204
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voxpelli
yes, I will look into doing that
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snarfed
tantek: not really. i just figured if you're already stripping leading synd URLs from the content, it'd be easy to strip them from title too
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snarfed
iterating and all
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snarfed
no promises on best practices, but you're welcome to look at the output from https://granary-demo.appspot.com/?input=html as an example!
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tantek
I'm not really stripping them, I'm putting them intor markup
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tantek
s/intor/into
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: I'm not really stripping them, I'm putting them into markup
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snarfed
ah i see
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snarfed
still, if your code is able to edit them....
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snarfed
anyway, not a big deal
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tantek
well you're not the first to request it so now I'm starting to think more about it
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tantek
I also dislike how it appears in tab names
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tantek
snarfed, it looks like the granary-demo is just stripping URLs from the start - is there something more complex going on?
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tantek
wondering if that would be enough, and/or how that would affect the name vs content algorithms
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aaronpk
what is a collection?
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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aaronpk
it just occurred to me that I should really be calling these "feeds" instead of "colllections" https://docs.p3k.io/
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aaronpk
so..gonna refactor that now
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aaronpk
better now than later
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voxpelli
aaronpk: feeds = stream of things, collection = fixed sets of things, or?
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aaronpk
well, not necessarily "fixed", but more hand-selected
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aaronpk
it's a subtle difference because there's no reason a "collection" post can't be updated later, which then means it has some properties similar to feeds
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aaronpk
oh, also feeds are typically ordered by publish date, but collections may have their posts in an explicit order
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voxpelli
perhaps "limited" rather than "fixed" then
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voxpelli
and yeah, the curation part is important
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tantek
aaronpk: also feeds have no promise/expecation of completeness / losslessness over time
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tantek
feeds are about "most recent n things"
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tantek
a collection is about an explicit set of things, and things from that set don't disappear unless the author explicitly removed them
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aaronpk
what is the difference between a feed and a collection?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a feed and a collection" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bf
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tantek
the (optional) explicit (re)ordering is also a key distinction in collections
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tantek
lots of differences
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tantek
what you're talking about in p3k docs sounds more like "channels" (which is what feeds used to be called before they became all hip and trendy)
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aaronpk
oh yeah hah. that's even what I called it in my early twitter clone
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voxpelli
channels = "focused" feeds? :)
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voxpelli
focused stream of things
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tantek
feeds has tended to mean something plumbing-centric e.g. RSS feeds.
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tantek
or h-feed for that matter
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tantek
aaronpk: there you go, you already had your answer
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tantek
the term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it becamse kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
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tantek
s/becamse/became
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: the term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it became kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
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voxpelli
what is channel?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "channel" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bg
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voxpelli
perhaps capture it as being a less plumbing-centric term?
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[kevinmarks]
Channel is also plumbing centric, as it is the concrete trough you put a stream into to contain it
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[kevinmarks]
Canal = channel
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tantek
tries to think of an English Channel joke for KevinMarks and fails
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tantek
KevinMarks: I think the point is one of prior art/term existence, e.g. TV channels, IRC channels, and even Pointcast channels - thus there was no need to invent "feed" or "stream" to mean the same thing.
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tantek
or "river" for that matter
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voxpelli
was thinking non-plumbing centric in the way that people don't start to think about plumbing when they hear channel in the same way they do as when they hear feed or maybe stream
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tantek
And remember that all that became RSS essentially came from CDF - Channel Definition Format.
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voxpelli
(then again, eg. RabbitMQ uses channels as a technical term within it)
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tantek
if you want some pre-RSS history :D
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kylewm
RabbitMQ reference made me think of "topics"
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kylewm
(from ActiveMQ)
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tantek
also hilarious double-typo (copy paste likely) "CategoyDef"
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tantek
a channel is a frequently updated collection of information
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tantek
note that in CDF - there was no in-place sending of the content in an ITEM, instead, an ITEM would only have an HREF to the actual "article contents" (presumably as HTML)
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KevinMarks
right - they have title/abstract =name/summary
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KevinMarks
unmung parses CDF (via feedparser)
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tantek
KevinMarks: we could make some ;)
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tantek
maybe for next year's 20th anniversary of CDF :D
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kylewm
my atom feed shows up in the Quitter global timeline apparently
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kylewm
tantek's too
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[shaners]
kylewm: any idea how/why your atom feeds show up there?
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kylewm
I added it on purpose at some point
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kylewm
I have an account there and followed my website
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[shaners]
added it to what?
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[shaners]
how do you follow a website on quitter?
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gRegorLove
What is quitter?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "quitter" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bh
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kylewm
Quitter is a public instance of GNU social with a Twitter-like skin.
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loqi.me
created /Quitter (+95) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453148369426 and dfn added by kylewm"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
What is GNU social?
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Loqi
GNU social is a free software project that "will be a decentralized social network that you can install on your own server" https://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social
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KevinMarks
then run windows in a js emulator so we can subscribe to the CDF feeds on our virtual desktops?
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GWG
Afternoon
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GWG
Counting down to IWC
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[shaners]
The license for php-mf2 is now CC0
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aaronpk
barnabywalters++
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Loqi
barnabywalters has 84 karma
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[shaners]
barnabywalters may not be very active in the channel these days, but he was very responsive on GitHub. :+1::skin-tone-2:
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GWG
aaronpk, how close are you to completion of your launch list?
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GWG
shaners, life does that.
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aaronpk
GWG: as we speak, I just finished the last of my post type conversion scripts!
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[shaners]
boom goes the dynamite
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[shaners]
good job, aaronpk.
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[shaners]
stay on target... almost there...
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GWG
Just remember what that little engine said.
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aaronpk
I feel like I should be publishing this launch checklist so people can follow it :P
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tantek
what is a launch checklist?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "launch checklist" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bi
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[shaners]
nah. you good. head down, power through.
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aaronpk
aw, wunderlist removed their public sharing option
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GWG
Aaronpk, I'll just hang out here in Mission Control and monitor the situation.
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tantek
what is wunderlist?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "wunderlist" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bj
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aaronpk
Wunderlist is an app for managing todo lists, is available for many desktop and mobile platforms, and has an API. http://wunderlist.com
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loqi.me
created /Wunderlist (+162) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453149357841 and dfn added by aaronpk"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
[shaners] congrats!
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GWG
aaronpk, you know I watch to figure out what I might do in two years.
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GWG
shaners, what is next for you?
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[shaners]
gwg: a bunch of post-launch housekeeping. bugs that showed up in the rebuild, refactors, performance
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[shaners]
1. make it work
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[shaners]
2. make it good
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[shaners]
3. make it fast
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GWG
Been there for a while now myself
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[shaners]
i need to get my “nested” pages working again
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[shaners]
and a redirects manager
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[shaners]
well, a better redirects manager
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GWG
I want to, inspired by aaronpk, do flights, but to get to flights, I need events.
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[shaners]
first things first. next things next.
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GWG
To get to events, I need to finish venues.
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GWG
To finish venues, I need to fix location support
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[shaners]
just start at the start
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tantek
GWG how do you keep track of that? do you have that as an ordered list on your working on page?
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GWG
I should, but I have fear of rewrite
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
GWG, well I find it's more work to keep it all in my head so I write it down instead
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GWG
Because, once I have venues, I can add checkin
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tantek
helps me focus on one thing at a time instead of feeling overwhelmed
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GWG
There are side trips along the way
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tantek
hence it's worth writing it down so you know what was the plan
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tantek
and can feel free to go on side trips as necessary
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GWG
Side trips on my way to trips?
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tantek
exactly
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tantek
who is GWG?
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Loqi
David Shanske is an Indieweb enthusiast from New York, working on Indieweb WordPress plugin development http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com
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tantek
here I'll help you with a start ;)
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GWG
It seemed like a good idea because of how many things that I would hit on the way.
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tantek
what is a flight?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "flight" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bk
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tantek
flight is a type of [[travel]]
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loqi.me
created /flight (+57) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453150418650 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+168) "add Working On section with implied dependency sequence from IRC"
(view diff)
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tantek
GWG, ok here you go, what you said in IRC but as an ordered list: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Working_On
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tantek
or rather, ordered as a list (used unordered list items in case you want to move things around etc.)
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gRegorLove
GWG: You can do minimal events and iterate. I didn't start with venues or location (presuming that means coordinates) for mine.
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gRegorLove
Posting *something*, however minimal, gets me more excited to iterate on it.
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tantek
gRegorLove: how do you determine what's of minimum viable usefulness to you though?
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tantek
as in, sure, I post notes about events, but if it doesn't look or act any differently, then it's still a note
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tantek
it's good to gather publishing practice, but writing a bunch of code without new functionality (a new post type "label" is not really new functionality) is kind of a form of yakshaving
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gRegorLove
My use-case was keeping track of concerts I'm going to attend, and going back to add concerts I've attended in the past.
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tantek
gRegorLove: another way of looking at it - can you solve it with just a hashtag in your notes? fine, don't write any code for it.
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gRegorLove
I started with date, time, venue name, venue address, and links to the band. Manually wrote the mf2
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tantek
so in your case, if you could solve it by putting #concert in your notes, then you'd be done right?
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gRegorLove
But yes, could be even more minimal that that of course.
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tantek
events aren't really useful without at least a time and place (in addition to note / name)
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gRegorLove
Yeah, I had both
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KartikPrabhu
since presentations are being discussed what about same/similar presentation given at different events?
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@energyovertime
@pixlpa on your own personal website where you own your own content #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/689195671966973952)
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aaronpk
wow okay. fixed some more bugs, now i'm gonna let it import a bunch of my posts for a while. next up is importing comments/likes/etc!
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aaronpk
*sigh* some day i will be done with this project
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miklb
hey! Been lurking past day or two & doing a lot of reading on indieweb. Just want thank everyone for sharing info. Very inspired to embrace more of the ideas I've been reading.
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: I liked the battery icon at the top right of a link you shared earlier. 50% power. Is that tied to your import progress? :)
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gRegorLove
Hi, miklb. Welcome!
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KartikPrabhu
i think it is aaronpk's phone battery
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miklb
thanks gRegorLove
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gRegorLove
miklb: Do you have a website?
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miklb
gRegorLove yes. I just converted away from a fairly defunct php project, Habari, to Jekyll. same url as my IRC nick
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miklb
just now starting process of implemnting basics for indieweb.
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: it's actually my phone battery!
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gRegorLove
Ha! How are you doing that aaronpk?
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aaronpk
same way I track location persistently
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aaronpk
the GPS tracking app also includes battery % and charging state each time it tracks a location
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KartikPrabhu
wow! that is a lot of access for a GPS app
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gRegorLove
Heh, never thought about battery power being available to an app, but it makes sense
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KartikPrabhu
keeps getting reminded about how messed up phone app permissions are
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aaronpk
well i made the app, so...
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KartikPrabhu
i was also commenting in general
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gRegorLove
miklb: Cool! Have you signed in to the wiki yet? You can add yourself to /irc-people with an avatar and then it will show up in the logs and link to your site.
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miklb
gRegorLove I have not yet. I will once I have a little more implemented. New to Ruby in general, so slowly working through the implementation. Currently working on using Aaron Gustafson's Jekyll webmetion gem
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miklb
that log is neat
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miklb
if anyone has any additional Jekyll tools to suggest, I'm all ears
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KartikPrabhu
what is jekyll?
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Loqi
Jekyll is Ruby software that helps you create "Simple, blog-aware, static sites" suitable for static domain hosting https://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll
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KartikPrabhu
miklb: that page ^ and also add new ones you find :)
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miklb
the jekmentions sounded interesting, but seems broken. I've read through that extensively. but thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
miklb: in general it is a good idea to look for code that the author is using themselves. Those are less likely to be broken
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: that's a good point to add to /selfdogfood
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miklb
sure, thus why I'm digging deep into Aaron's site :-D
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: will do in a bit
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@legocoder
RT @aaronpk Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
(twitter.com/_/status/689203301892620288)
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KartikPrabhu
what is selfdogfood?
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Loqi
selfdogfood is a stronger form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, as an aspect of your primary online identity, day to day — if you're not willing to use your creation on your own primary personal website, why should anyone else use it on their primary personal website? https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: should I just add it in perspectives?
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tantek
that's a good start. if you feel it's fairly obvious / undisputed, add it to Why
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tantek
it's good to have more documented reasons to prefer software/service(s) that are selfdogfooded
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KartikPrabhu
ok will add a "Why" section. Also update capitalisation on section titles
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tantek
do we have consistent capitalization?
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KartikPrabhu
not on that page
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tantek
I mean anywhere
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KartikPrabhu
probably not
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KartikPrabhu
should "why" be the first section?
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KartikPrabhu
and should there be an Indieweb Examples section?
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tantek
our usual sections are Why, How, IndieWeb Examples
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tantek
I feel like I've written this down somewhere...
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KartikPrabhu
what is wikify?
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Loqi
wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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tantek
congrats shaners on launching activities - and events (how long has that been up?) !
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tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+100) "/* Incremental Wikifying */ expand a page"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+20) "/* See Also */ expand a page"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
I could set up a substitution template that would populate the common sections on new wiki pages.
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tantek
gRegorLove: I think that's a kind of anti-pattern - prepopulation with filler text that just serves as a distraction / dilution of the actual meaningful text in the page
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /selfdogfood (+311) "add Why, How to, Indieweb Examples"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
I meant the section headings only
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: review please ^^
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KartikPrabhu
maybe the "edit" page could link to /wikify and /expand_a_page near the top ?
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tantek
the new page template does link to /start_a_page
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: nice update!
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KartikPrabhu
yes and so edit could link to /expand_a_page in a similar way
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KartikPrabhu
sort of like "editing help" link
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tantek.com
edited /selfdogfood (+2220) "why vs why not, move quotes back to top since they are more generally illustrative than why/whynot specific, add self to examples, subheads for people"
(view diff)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: review ^^^ please :)
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KartikPrabhu
looks good
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /selfdogfood (+6) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ add date"
(view diff)
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sknebel
miklb: I filed a issue on jekmention at Github: https://github.com/fiatjaf/jekmentions/issues/4
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sknebel
I was looking at webmention/comment solutions yesterday
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miklb
sknebel: thanks. should have done the same, not sure I saw the project on GitHub
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sknebel
ideally what I want is "webmention-enabled disqus-clone with the option to selfhost"
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sknebel
What is Disqus?
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Loqi
Disqus is a comments hosting silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Disqus
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miklb
sknebel: the webmention.io gem I mentioned earlier seems to be a good solution. I just need to figure out how to add a rake file to the travis ci publish script I have
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tantek
sknebel I think we have a couple of those, in particular voxpelli's service that I think KevinMarks uses
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sknebel
k, will take a look at that
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tantek
what is webmention.herokuapp.com?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "webmention.herokuapp.com" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bm
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tantek
hmm - that needs a name
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kylewm
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 270 karma
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sknebel
ah, yes. ideally I'd want something that does "regular" comments as well
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sknebel
but I suppose I could build something that hosts user comments as posts
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sknebel
and sends webmentions to myself
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sknebel
mh, have to think about that, I'm getting ahead of myself
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tantek
and I hesitate to use "A WebMention Endpoint" as the formal name of webmention.herokuapp.com
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sknebel
I try to not overengineer this attempt at a website
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sknebel
content first, then features
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sknebel
fallen into that trap to oftne in the past
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tantek
!tell voxpelli is "A WebMention Endpoint" seriously the formal name of webmention.herokuapp.com or would you consider a more specifc (less confusing as a general phrase) name?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb
sknebel: likewise. Finally took the plunge to move so I could actually **start** doing and stop *thinking about it*
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kylewm
I propose calling it Voxmention
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tantek
webmention.herokuapp.com is {{voxpelli}}'s [[Webmention]] endpoint as a service, for both receiving and displaying (via JS embed) webmentions.
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kylewm
!tell voxpelli I propose Voxmention :)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
kylewm: ^^^ feel free to add that to a "Suggested Names" section :)
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kylewm
Vox-anything sounds cool
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miklb
it seems with static sites, receiving isn't the hard part, it is the sending webmentions that proves more difficult
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petermolnar
miklb grep for urls and curl them :)
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tantek
miklb: I think /Telegraph can do that for you
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miklb
what is Telegraph?
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Loqi
Telegraph is an open source API and service for sending webmentions, part of the p3k suite https://indiewebcamp.com/Telegraph
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petermolnar
miklb why are they hard for sending, what issues are you facing?
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miklb
petermolnar: specifically in my case, I don't know Ruby (yet) so having an out-of-the-box solution is proving difficult. Also, I tend to over engineer and get ahead of myself.
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snarfed
voxpelli and i have had the "it needs a name" conversation a few times before :P
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petermolnar
do you know bash, do you have a shell access on the site generator server, or are you generatic the site locally on your computer and just pushing the static files?
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miklb
I believe the aforementioned Ruby gem I linked to will send them on publish, I just need to chain it into my build process
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miklb
petermolnar: currently I do have a VPS, but am using travis ci to build the site and push from a git branch to the master on GitHub, bypassing their restrictions on built in Jekyll support
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miklb
will most likely switch to my own VPS once I've worked out the kinks
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petermolnar
fair enough
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miklb
since one of my goals was to be able to publish to my site from iOS, this is a workflow that is allowing that. I can write a markdown file on my phone, and push via another iOS app (Working Copy) have it publish
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