#snarfed!tell tantek hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too?
#aaronpkbut i needed something that worked for train and flights
#GWGOr operator, only because the word has multiple meanings
#GWGOn the other hand, you are enclosing it in an h-leg p-itinerary
#aaronpkthe crazy thing is this is actually my storage, so I have to make a decision in order to do anything
#aaronpkbut you will notice that what I publish on my site might be slightly different from the storage versions, so at least I can hold off on that aspect if I want
#GWGaaronpk: I just want to help finalize it as I'd someday like to do something like flightmemory
#aaronpki haven't seen that before but i will definitely check it out
#GWGaaronpk: You keep better track of your past then I do.
#GWGBut I know I'd be fascinated to come back and see where I'd been, years later
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#[shaners]tantek kylewm aaronpk: wrt G5 listed as the copyright on php-mf2 (somehow), should I just go ahead and change that to public domain / CC0 like the other things?
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#[aaronpk]I could have sworn it had a different license. Can you check the history?
#[aaronpk]You copied the license from the Ruby parser verbatim including the copyright G5 part. It was also my fault for not noticing when I merged the PR
#ben_thatmustbemeahh, yeah, it had been brought up that the licensing info was only in the composer.json file,
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#aaronpk[shaners] interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that completely, "activity" is a generic/overloaded term so pretty sure I want to avoid using that term
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#aaronpkyes, but usually with less written narrative
#aaronpkI want the posts to appear on the date of the talk (not the date I made the post about it), I create these posts both before and after the talks, they sometimes include a link to slides or video
#Loqigives aaronpk the posts to appear on the date of the talk
#aaronpkhere's what I've got so far. It doesn't actually treat these as a distinct post type, but includes the "view slides" link if the post has embedded slides, and shows the event name if the post is linked to an event
#aaronpkwould the name of an event (e.g. IndieWebCamp or Open Source Bridge) make sense as the name of an h-card?
#aaronpkor does h-card only describe a physical location?
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#aaronpka more user-centric version of the question is: does it make sense for the name of an event to appear the same way a physical location appears?
#Loqitantek: snarfed left you a message 16 hours, 17 minutes ago: hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453080171891
#tantekaaronpk: makes sense (private messages post-launch). Hoping that means that the permalinks will be restored though!
#aaronpk(or will at least redirect to the new permalink for them)
#tantek!tell snarfed totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it.
#tantekre: presentation posts - hmm - I think maybe we have different understandings of what a presentation post is
#aaronpkyeah, forget the name of them. what i'm actually trying to do is have a permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk, which collects information about the specific talk
#tantekas in, I see (and post) a presentation as just the materials thereof. whereas *giving* a presentation I see as a *talk*
#tantek"permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk" sounds like how I envision doing events
#aaronpkinformation about the talk includes: date, location, event name, description, link to (or embedded) slides, link to (or embedded) video
#tantekwhere the event's permalink is on the datetime of the event
#tantekhmm - looks like there's an old proposal for vcalendar-parent by tobyink in his hcalendar-1.1 fork.
#tantekaside: I've always found the compsci usage of parent/child a horrible analogy/metaphor because rarely (if ever) do compsci parent/child relationships actually represent something that (co-)creates or raises or is responsible for something else.
#tantekit's always a containment/hierarchy relationship in compsci, which is a fraction of (and at at that, not the most important part of) actual parent/child relationships
#tantekso whoever came up with that analogy was frankly, wrong.
#aaronpkI could add a property to my h-event storage called "part-of" where the value could be another h-event
#tanteka human child is not physical part of a human parent. genes were passed on, but they were *copied*. there is no containment relationship
#tantekthat's why the compsci analogy / usage is incorrect and should be avoided
#aaronpklol, there's only a containment relationship for one of the parents for 9 months
#tantekand that's not even a child per se, but a child-to-be
#aaronpkthe fact that it's true for only one of the parents makes that make even less sense
#tantekand when you add more than one level, it makes even less sense
#tantekexcept maybe for tribbles which are apparently born pregnant
#tantekso no, let's reject the compsci misuse of parent/child
#tantekthe relationship here is of conceptual / organizational / temporal / and spatial containment
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#tantekthe larger event, OSBridge, occurs over a broader timespan, and broader space (rooms etc.) than the individual session
#tantekand organizationally the session is officially part of OSBridge
#aaronpk"part of" is such an English-centric term for that. I'm pretty sure the equivalent term in other languages is not a direct translation
#tantek(one could also imagine renegade subevents which were not officially part of OSBridge but tookover an OSBridge room during when OSBridge was happening)
#tantekthat should fit inside your calendar icon as a replacemnt for the grid
#tantekwhereas the "users" icon you have now looks more like it means "group" like a FB group
#voxpellitantek: since I arrived in the middle of this discussion – small question: would you say that this experimental property would be useful on a standalone conference page as well?
#Loqisnarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 8 minutes ago: totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453138898204
#aaronpkwell, not necessarily "fixed", but more hand-selected
#aaronpkit's a subtle difference because there's no reason a "collection" post can't be updated later, which then means it has some properties similar to feeds
#aaronpkoh, also feeds are typically ordered by publish date, but collections may have their posts in an explicit order
#voxpelliperhaps "limited" rather than "fixed" then
#tanteka collection is about an explicit set of things, and things from that set don't disappear unless the author explicitly removed them
#aaronpkwhat is the difference between a feed and a collection?
#LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a feed and a collection" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bf
#tantekthe (optional) explicit (re)ordering is also a key distinction in collections
#tantekaaronpk: there you go, you already had your answer
#tantekthe term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it becamse kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
#Loqitantek meant to say: the term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it became kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
#tantektries to think of an English Channel joke for KevinMarks and fails
#tantekKevinMarks: I think the point is one of prior art/term existence, e.g. TV channels, IRC channels, and even Pointcast channels - thus there was no need to invent "feed" or "stream" to mean the same thing.
#voxpelliwas thinking non-plumbing centric in the way that people don't start to think about plumbing when they hear channel in the same way they do as when they hear feed or maybe stream
#tantekAnd remember that all that became RSS essentially came from CDF - Channel Definition Format.
#voxpelli(then again, eg. RabbitMQ uses channels as a technical term within it)
#tanteka channel is a frequently updated collection of information
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#tanteknote that in CDF - there was no in-place sending of the content in an ITEM, instead, an ITEM would only have an HREF to the actual "article contents" (presumably as HTML)
#KevinMarksright - they have title/abstract =name/summary
#LoqiGNU social is a free software project that "will be a decentralized social network that you can install on your own server" https://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social
#KevinMarksthen run windows in a js emulator so we can subscribe to the CDF feeds on our virtual desktops?
#tantekor rather, ordered as a list (used unordered list items in case you want to move things around etc.)
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#gRegorLoveGWG: You can do minimal events and iterate. I didn't start with venues or location (presuming that means coordinates) for mine.
#gRegorLovePosting *something*, however minimal, gets me more excited to iterate on it.
#tantekgRegorLove: how do you determine what's of minimum viable usefulness to you though?
#tantekas in, sure, I post notes about events, but if it doesn't look or act any differently, then it's still a note
#tantekit's good to gather publishing practice, but writing a bunch of code without new functionality (a new post type "label" is not really new functionality) is kind of a form of yakshaving
#gRegorLoveMy use-case was keeping track of concerts I'm going to attend, and going back to add concerts I've attended in the past.
#aaronpkwow okay. fixed some more bugs, now i'm gonna let it import a bunch of my posts for a while. next up is importing comments/likes/etc!
#aaronpk*sigh* some day i will be done with this project
#miklbhey! Been lurking past day or two & doing a lot of reading on indieweb. Just want thank everyone for sharing info. Very inspired to embrace more of the ideas I've been reading.
#gRegorLoveaaronpk: I liked the battery icon at the top right of a link you shared earlier. 50% power. Is that tied to your import progress? :)
#gRegorLovemiklb: Cool! Have you signed in to the wiki yet? You can add yourself to /irc-people with an avatar and then it will show up in the logs and link to your site.
#miklbgRegorLove I have not yet. I will once I have a little more implemented. New to Ruby in general, so slowly working through the implementation. Currently working on using Aaron Gustafson's Jekyll webmetion gem
#LoqiJekyll is Ruby software that helps you create "Simple, blog-aware, static sites" suitable for static domain hosting https://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll
#KartikPrabhumiklb: that page ^ and also add new ones you find :)
#miklbthe jekmentions sounded interesting, but seems broken. I've read through that extensively. but thanks!
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#KartikPrabhumiklb: in general it is a good idea to look for code that the author is using themselves. Those are less likely to be broken
#Loqiselfdogfood is a stronger form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, as an aspect of your primary online identity, day to day — if you're not willing to use your creation on your own primary personal website, why should anyone else use it on their primary personal website? https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
#KartikPrabhutantek: should I just add it in perspectives?
#tantekthat's a good start. if you feel it's fairly obvious / undisputed, add it to Why
#tantekit's good to have more documented reasons to prefer software/service(s) that are selfdogfooded
#KartikPrabhuok will add a "Why" section. Also update capitalisation on section titles
#gRegorLoveI could set up a substitution template that would populate the common sections on new wiki pages.
#tantekgRegorLove: I think that's a kind of anti-pattern - prepopulation with filler text that just serves as a distraction / dilution of the actual meaningful text in the page
#tantek.comedited /selfdogfood (+2220) "why vs why not, move quotes back to top since they are more generally illustrative than why/whynot specific, add self to examples, subheads for people" (view diff)
#miklbsknebel: the webmention.io gem I mentioned earlier seems to be a good solution. I just need to figure out how to add a rake file to the travis ci publish script I have
#tanteksknebel I think we have a couple of those, in particular voxpelli's service that I think KevinMarks uses
#sknebelfallen into that trap to oftne in the past
#tantek!tell voxpelli is "A WebMention Endpoint" seriously the formal name of webmention.herokuapp.com or would you consider a more specifc (less confusing as a general phrase) name?
#petermolnarmiklb why are they hard for sending, what issues are you facing?
#miklbpetermolnar: specifically in my case, I don't know Ruby (yet) so having an out-of-the-box solution is proving difficult. Also, I tend to over engineer and get ahead of myself.
#snarfedvoxpelli and i have had the "it needs a name" conversation a few times before :P
#petermolnardo you know bash, do you have a shell access on the site generator server, or are you generatic the site locally on your computer and just pushing the static files?
#miklbI believe the aforementioned Ruby gem I linked to will send them on publish, I just need to chain it into my build process
#miklbpetermolnar: currently I do have a VPS, but am using travis ci to build the site and push from a git branch to the master on GitHub, bypassing their restrictions on built in Jekyll support
#miklbwill most likely switch to my own VPS once I've worked out the kinks
#miklbsince one of my goals was to be able to publish to my site from iOS, this is a workflow that is allowing that. I can write a markdown file on my phone, and push via another iOS app (Working Copy) have it publish