#indiewebcamp 2016-01-18

2016-01-18 UTC
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GWG I'm thinking of offering free accommodation to any Indiewebcamper who will shovel my snow for me.
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@georgkaser Rise of the IndieWeb | Screenguide http://screengui.de/26/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/688884367263948800)
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@georgkaser Ein interessanter Artikel zur stärker werdenden #IndieWeb #Bewegung... http://known.georgkaser.com/2016/untitled-7 (twitter.com/_/status/688886138304638976)
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@jenmrapp RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688886700676792320)
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aaronpk !tell tantek I decided to make private messages a post-launch feature to not delay the new site
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed !tell tantek hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@wynlim Sites that died: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688914411302486016)
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@ebot70 Top hashtags for @rrrrrrrix: #aesthetic #demdurbate #emacs #indieweb #lizardperson http://www.redaelli.org/matteo-blog/projects/ebottwitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/688916311573966848)
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aaronpk [✓] train
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aaronpk [✓] flights
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GWG aaronpk: I have to see those two at some point
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@miklb @aaronpk just noticed the WWW webmention.io doesn’t redirect. just a friendly heads up. (twitter.com/_/status/688926592895180801)
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miklb whoa
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aaronpk miklb: thanks
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aaronpk GWG: this is what a flight looks like now. the new one is very similar http://aaronparecki.com/travel/2015/11/09/1/
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aaronpk http://pk.ngrok.io/2015/11/09/3/ (temporary url)
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GWG p-operator, p-transit-type, p-number?
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aaronpk yeah i'm winging it
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GWG Have you documented this concept somewhere?
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aaronpk it's mostly written only as examples, but working on filling out the explanations http://docs.p3k.dev/Example-Posts
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aaronpk oops
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aaronpk http://docs.p3k.io/Example-Posts
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GWG I'm not so sure about p-number
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aaronpk me either
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aaronpk but i needed something that worked for train and flights
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GWG Or operator, only because the word has multiple meanings
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GWG On the other hand, you are enclosing it in an h-leg p-itinerary
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aaronpk the crazy thing is this is actually my storage, so I have to make a decision in order to do anything
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aaronpk but you will notice that what I publish on my site might be slightly different from the storage versions, so at least I can hold off on that aspect if I want
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GWG aaronpk: I just want to help finalize it as I'd someday like to do something like flightmemory
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GWG http://www.flightmemory.com/
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GWG Which I've never done. But I probably could POSSE to it.
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aaronpk whoa!
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aaronpk i haven't seen that before but i will definitely check it out
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GWG aaronpk: You keep better track of your past then I do.
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GWG But I know I'd be fascinated to come back and see where I'd been, years later
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[shaners] tantek kylewm aaronpk: wrt G5 listed as the copyright on php-mf2 (somehow), should I just go ahead and change that to public domain / CC0 like the other things?
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[aaronpk] I could have sworn it had a different license. Can you check the history?
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[shaners] sure
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[shaners] https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/commit/7ceab6679021c18241d7d9b24c0d0ea7a68c075f#diff-04c6e90faac2675aa89e2176d2eec7d8
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[aaronpk] lol oops
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[aaronpk] Well then
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[aaronpk] Change it to copyright Barnaby Walters then
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[aaronpk] Since the license was already referenced in the composer.json file
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[shaners] Looks like ben_thatmustbeme added it by copy/pasta from the ruby one
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[aaronpk] And plz do it as a pull request so that we can add all these notes in the comments
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[shaners] kk
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[shaners] aaronpk: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/75
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aaronpk 👍
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[shaners] Personally though, I’d prefer it to be CC0 like the wiki.
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[shaners] But I guess that’s barnaby’s call.
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aaronpk yeah that's barnaby's call
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GWG Has anyone heard from Barnaby of late?
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ben_thatmustbeme pokes his head up
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GWG Hi, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme what'd i do wrong now?
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GWG Something about licensing
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[aaronpk] You copied the license from the Ruby parser verbatim including the copyright G5 part. It was also my fault for not noticing when I merged the PR
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, yeah, it had been brought up that the licensing info was only in the composer.json file,
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ben_thatmustbeme ahhh, yeah, thats not right
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[shaners] ben_thatmustbeme: Oh well. It’s all sorted now. :shrug:
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[shaners] aaronpk: Here’s where my thinking is for DM’s weights/steps/etc posts.
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[shaners] https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/issues/48
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kylewm man, <-- Newer | Older --> definitely falls under the "can't unsee" category for me
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[shaners] kylewm: Is that in some pagination?
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kylewm yeah like once t convinced me that Older should be to the left, the opposite really bugs me
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[shaners] Yep
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: see: https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/webs-arrow-time ;)
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kylewm Was just reading it! Great discussion
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KartikPrabhu yeah so I am not very convinced that "older to left" is the way to go
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KartikPrabhu specially combined with "reverse-chronology" of feeds
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@RikMende RT @georgkaser IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the #IndieWeb https://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/689060655974973441)
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@thirdhandinfo RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/689093008835375109)
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aaronpk [shaners] interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that completely, "activity" is a generic/overloaded term so pretty sure I want to avoid using that term
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@Social_Bitcoin RT: DianneGreenlay: #Authors - wondering whether to use #Facebook ads? Read DavidPenny_'s case study http://www.selfpublishingadvice.org/?p=170119 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/689120530994188289)
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aaronpk i'm struggling with my "presentations" post type
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aaronpk trying to find what makes it a "presentation" if there are no slides attached to it
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snarfed huh
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snarfed is it an announcement or recap of a presentation?
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snarfed like https://snarfed.org/2009-06-12_video_from_google_io_talk ?
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aaronpk yes, but usually with less written narrative
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aaronpk I want the posts to appear on the date of the talk (not the date I made the post about it), I create these posts both before and after the talks, they sometimes include a link to slides or video
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Loqi gives aaronpk the posts to appear on the date of the talk
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aaronpk they also include the event name
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aaronpk here's one from osbridge last year. looks like I need to update it to include the video now that it's been posted http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2015/06/24/1/micropub-osbridge
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aaronpk here's what I've got so far. It doesn't actually treat these as a distinct post type, but includes the "view slides" link if the post has embedded slides, and shows the event name if the post is linked to an event
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aaronpk http://pk.ngrok.io/presentations
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aaronpk maybe they are actually events
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aaronpk would the name of an event (e.g. IndieWebCamp or Open Source Bridge) make sense as the name of an h-card?
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aaronpk or does h-card only describe a physical location?
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aaronpk a more user-centric version of the question is: does it make sense for the name of an event to appear the same way a physical location appears?
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aaronpk I think the answer is "yes" for now
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aaronpk and this means I can make all of my "presentation" posts into events
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aaronpk which means less special-casing for the "presentation" post type
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tantek Loqi, playback.
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 16 hours, 46 minutes ago: I decided to make private messages a post-launch feature to not delay the new site http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453078407753
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 16 hours, 17 minutes ago: hey, can i file a falcon feature request? it's great that you dropped the leading instagram urls (and FB etc) from photo posts! any chance you could do it in your atom too? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453080171891
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tantek aaronpk: makes sense (private messages post-launch). Hoping that means that the permalinks will be restored though!
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aaronpk yep they definitely will!
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aaronpk (or will at least redirect to the new permalink for them)
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tantek !tell snarfed totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek I think shaners had a similar request. That's enough itches to start looking into it and at least start documenting best practices.
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tantek aaronpk - yes that counts :)
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tantek re: presentation posts - hmm - I think maybe we have different understandings of what a presentation post is
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aaronpk yeah, forget the name of them. what i'm actually trying to do is have a permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk, which collects information about the specific talk
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tantek as in, I see (and post) a presentation as just the materials thereof. whereas *giving* a presentation I see as a *talk*
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tantek "permalink with a date of the day I gave a talk" sounds like how I envision doing events
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aaronpk information about the talk includes: date, location, event name, description, link to (or embedded) slides, link to (or embedded) video
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tantek where the event's permalink is on the datetime of the event
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tantek different from say, comments on the event
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tantek a talk is just one kind of event
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aaronpk i think my decision to actually store these as events follows that logic
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tantek I mean from a user perspective even
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tantek e.g. Lanyrd treats events in this way
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tantek an event-centric user model
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tantek then events can optionally have one or more speaker(s), organizer(s), attendee(s), etc.
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tantek and any number of attached materials, slides, video, etc.
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tantek but it's still an *event*
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tantek not a *talk*, nor a *presentation*, but an *event*
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tantek Lanyrd's user model makes a lot of sense to me in this way - because it follows the natural flow of what you would post about the event
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tantek and any attached materials can be posted in-reply-to the event
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aaronpk one of the things i'm confused about (or losing when I do this switch) is the association between a sub-event and the event that contains it.
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tantek what's an example?
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aaronpk "Open Source Bridge" is an event that runs 5 days. that event contains an event, "Intro to IndieAuth", which is 45 minutes long
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tantek welcome adactio !
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tantek did you post an event "Open Source Bridge" yourself?
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tantek if not, then you just have one event
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aaronpk I want the permalink for "Intro to IndieAuth" to somehow indicate it's part of Open Source Bridge
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Loqi gives aaronpk the permalink for "Intro to IndieAuth" to somehow indicate it
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tantek aaronpk: I wouldn't bother with that except to put the link to the session on the open source bridge site as one of the URLs of the event
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tantek and then you leave the subevent problem up to them
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aaronpk but I want to *show* that to people looking at these posts
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aaronpk all of these posts on my site right now have the event name that they're part of as a primary piece of what you see http://aaronparecki.com/presentations
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tantek show what to people? maybe share a sketch/screenshot of what you mean?
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aaronpk I don't have a way to do that in the new site, except for setting the location name to "Open Source Bridge"
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tantek ugh
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tantek that seems like a pollution of location as meaning
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk so what do I do?
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tantek looks at the link
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tantek so really you're indicating parent event
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aaronpk I currently break out the event name on these permalinks http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2015/06/24/1/micropub-osbridge
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tantek or containing event
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aaronpk yep
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tantek not subevent
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aaronpk that's what i was trying to say
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tantek this is an important distinction
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tantek checks the microformats wiki
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tantek let's see if http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming has anything
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tantek hmm - not finding anything
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tantek hmm - looks like there's an old proposal for vcalendar-parent by tobyink in his hcalendar-1.1 fork.
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tantek aside: I've always found the compsci usage of parent/child a horrible analogy/metaphor because rarely (if ever) do compsci parent/child relationships actually represent something that (co-)creates or raises or is responsible for something else.
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aaronpk heh
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tantek it's always a containment/hierarchy relationship in compsci, which is a fraction of (and at at that, not the most important part of) actual parent/child relationships
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tantek so whoever came up with that analogy was frankly, wrong.
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aaronpk I could add a property to my h-event storage called "part-of" where the value could be another h-event
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tantek a human child is not physical part of a human parent. genes were passed on, but they were *copied*. there is no containment relationship
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tantek that's why the compsci analogy / usage is incorrect and should be avoided
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aaronpk lol, there's only a containment relationship for one of the parents for 9 months
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tantek true!
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tantek and that's not even a child per se, but a child-to-be
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aaronpk the fact that it's true for only one of the parents makes that make even less sense
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tantek and when you add more than one level, it makes even less sense
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tantek except maybe for tribbles which are apparently born pregnant
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tantek so no, let's reject the compsci misuse of parent/child
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tantek the relationship here is of conceptual / organizational / temporal / and spatial containment
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tantek the larger event, OSBridge, occurs over a broader timespan, and broader space (rooms etc.) than the individual session
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tantek and organizationally the session is officially part of OSBridge
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aaronpk "part of" is such an English-centric term for that. I'm pretty sure the equivalent term in other languages is not a direct translation
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tantek (one could also imagine renegade subevents which were not officially part of OSBridge but tookover an OSBridge room during when OSBridge was happening)
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tantek aaronpk, right, "part of" is very generic
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tantek abstract even.
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tantek perhaps we need to go deeper, more specific
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tantek looks at aaronpk's examples again
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aaronpk "occurs during"
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aaronpk or "occurs within"
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tantek all your example containing events are "conferences"
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aaronpk that's because all those examples are talks
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aaronpk trying to think of other examples i have that aren't talks
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tantek I'm claiming that all your containing events are conferences
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aaronpk that's true for this one too! http://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/09/11/1/indieweb-xoxo-breakfast
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tantek whether or not your events themselves are talks/sessions/etc.
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tantek right!
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aaronpk yeah I think that is true for all my events
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aaronpk well I am certainly not opposed to using "conference" for this. It makes the code and HTML very clear about what it's for.
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tantek yeah, start with p-x-conference to make it clear it's experimental
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tantek (I mean in the published form - use whatever you want in storage)
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tantek or u-x-conference if you're linking to it
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tantek because presumably the URL is more interesting to have
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tantek and if you link to it and name it in the visible linktext, you could class="u-x-conference h-event" and have the name+link auto picked up
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aaronpk i always want to show the name, so it will likely be <a href="http://exmaple.com" class="p-x-conference h-event">Conference Name</a>
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aaronpk oops i meant u-x-
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tantek right
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aaronpk this is what i'm actually doing http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160118101349550
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tantek why the extra markup?
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aaronpk makes the template easier
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tantek you only need one element for that
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tantek ugh that's a horrible reason to publish extra markup
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tantek do you need it for a particular styling effect?
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aaronpk why? it makes it easier for me to maintain
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tantek because people learn by view source
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tantek and all of us IndieWeb Generation 1 people should be publishing optimum markup for people to learn from
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tantek in contrast to the bloated carp the silos publish
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aaronpk okay I just refactored a whole bunch of stuff, and also now the markup is smaller
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aaronpk I need an icon that represents a conference
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aaronpk i'm already using a calendar to represent the date
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[kevinmarks] Is a hashtag for the containing event a way to do it?
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aaronpk hm maybe the "many users" icon
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[shaners] Morning, yall.
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[kevinmarks] I just realised that my noterlive.com derived transcripts don't have the hashtag in that the individual tweets do
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tantek kevinmarks you have all sorts of containment challenges in your posts and transcripts :)
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aaronpk maybe a ticket stub?
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tantek that sounds like a concert icon
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tantek or a movie
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk i think i'm going with "users" for now http://pk.ngrok.io/2015/06/24/6/micropub-osbridge
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tantek enjoy: https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=conference
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tantek (some of those are really funny and/or sad)
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tantek wow those icons are small aaronpk !
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aaronpk i think everything kind of shrank in this new design
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tantek if you could fit the people inside the calendar thing (instead of the grid), that could work
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aaronpk hah. I think it would have to be bigger for that to work
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tantek yes I was looking at your current site
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voxpelli aaronpk: just stumbled in here and stumbled upon this discussion – u/p-x-conference sounds like something I might have use for
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tantek voxpelli: do you have existing session posts that link to or mention the conference they're a part of?
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voxpelli tantek: there's no announced sessions yet at the site I'm building but there are on the previous years (which others than me have built)
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tantek aaronpk - even in the small icons, I bet you could fit two people (maybe slightly overlapping) inside the icon
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aaronpk I will deal with that later. unfortunately making custom icons is a bit of work
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voxpelli tantek: like http://2015.theconference.se/event/tuesday-aug-18/decision-and-choice-making/ – thinking all such sessions would be marked up as individual events with this markup and link to wider conference event
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tantek aaronpk, like this one: 👥
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tantek that should fit inside your calendar icon as a replacemnt for the grid
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tantek whereas the "users" icon you have now looks more like it means "group" like a FB group
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voxpelli tantek: since I arrived in the middle of this discussion – small question: would you say that this experimental property would be useful on a standalone conference page as well?
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tantek sure!
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tantek markup all the events with h-event though
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tantek both sessions, and the overall conference
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snarfed is embarrassed he still hasn't managed to mark up https://snarfed.org/talks or any of the other https://snarfed.org/lists after all this time. someday!
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 8 minutes ago: totally fair request. Do you have a suggestion or link to best practices for photo posts in Atom? Would happily help document on wiki and dogfood it. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453138898204
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voxpelli yes, I will look into doing that
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snarfed tantek: not really. i just figured if you're already stripping leading synd URLs from the content, it'd be easy to strip them from title too
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snarfed iterating and all
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snarfed no promises on best practices, but you're welcome to look at the output from https://granary-demo.appspot.com/?input=html as an example!
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tantek I'm not really stripping them, I'm putting them intor markup
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tantek s/intor/into
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I'm not really stripping them, I'm putting them into markup
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snarfed ah i see
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snarfed still, if your code is able to edit them....
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snarfed anyway, not a big deal
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tantek well you're not the first to request it so now I'm starting to think more about it
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snarfed cool!
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snarfed (also, template for granary's atom output is https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/templates/user_feed.atom )
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tantek I also dislike how it appears in tab names
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tantek snarfed, it looks like the granary-demo is just stripping URLs from the start - is there something more complex going on?
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tantek wondering if that would be enough, and/or how that would affect the name vs content algorithms
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aaronpk what is a collection?
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Loqi A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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aaronpk it just occurred to me that I should really be calling these "feeds" instead of "colllections" https://docs.p3k.io/
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aaronpk so..gonna refactor that now
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aaronpk better now than later
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voxpelli aaronpk: feeds = stream of things, collection = fixed sets of things, or?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk well, not necessarily "fixed", but more hand-selected
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aaronpk it's a subtle difference because there's no reason a "collection" post can't be updated later, which then means it has some properties similar to feeds
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aaronpk oh, also feeds are typically ordered by publish date, but collections may have their posts in an explicit order
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voxpelli perhaps "limited" rather than "fixed" then
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voxpelli and yeah, the curation part is important
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tantek aaronpk: also feeds have no promise/expecation of completeness / losslessness over time
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tantek feeds are about "most recent n things"
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tantek a collection is about an explicit set of things, and things from that set don't disappear unless the author explicitly removed them
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aaronpk what is the difference between a feed and a collection?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a feed and a collection" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bf
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tantek the (optional) explicit (re)ordering is also a key distinction in collections
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tantek lots of differences
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tantek what you're talking about in p3k docs sounds more like "channels" (which is what feeds used to be called before they became all hip and trendy)
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aaronpk oh yeah hah. that's even what I called it in my early twitter clone
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voxpelli channels = "focused" feeds? :)
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voxpelli focused stream of things
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tantek feeds has tended to mean something plumbing-centric e.g. RSS feeds.
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tantek or h-feed for that matter
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aaronpk https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/6475785463/in/album-72157633041808362/
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tantek aaronpk: there you go, you already had your answer
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tantek the term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it becamse kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
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tantek s/becamse/became
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Loqi tantek meant to say: the term "feed" is both so abstract and so plumbing-centric that it became kinda useless. and hence it was replaced the the similarly abstract and plumbing-centric "stream"
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voxpelli what is channel?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "channel" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bg
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voxpelli perhaps capture it as being a less plumbing-centric term?
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[kevinmarks] Channel is also plumbing centric, as it is the concrete trough you put a stream into to contain it
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[kevinmarks] Canal = channel
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tantek tries to think of an English Channel joke for KevinMarks and fails
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tantek KevinMarks: I think the point is one of prior art/term existence, e.g. TV channels, IRC channels, and even Pointcast channels - thus there was no need to invent "feed" or "stream" to mean the same thing.
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tantek or "river" for that matter
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voxpelli was thinking non-plumbing centric in the way that people don't start to think about plumbing when they hear channel in the same way they do as when they hear feed or maybe stream
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tantek And remember that all that became RSS essentially came from CDF - Channel Definition Format.
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voxpelli (then again, eg. RabbitMQ uses channels as a technical term within it)
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tantek https://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-CDFsubmit.html
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tantek if you want some pre-RSS history :D
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aaronpk wow
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kylewm RabbitMQ reference made me think of "topics"
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kylewm (from ActiveMQ)
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tantek also hilarious double-typo (copy paste likely) "CategoyDef"
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tantek a channel is a frequently updated collection of information
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tantek note that in CDF - there was no in-place sending of the content in an ITEM, instead, an ITEM would only have an HREF to the actual "article contents" (presumably as HTML)
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KevinMarks right - they have title/abstract =name/summary
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KevinMarks unmung parses CDF (via feedparser)
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KevinMarks are there any CDF files out there apart from https://github.com/kevinmarks/feedparser/tree/develop/feedparser/tests/wellformed/cdf ?
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tantek KevinMarks: we could make some ;)
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tantek maybe for next year's 20th anniversary of CDF :D
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kylewm well that's interesting! http://quitter.se/notice/4437781
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kylewm my atom feed shows up in the Quitter global timeline apparently
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kylewm tantek's too
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[shaners] kylewm: any idea how/why your atom feeds show up there?
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kylewm I added it on purpose at some point
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kylewm I have an account there and followed my website
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[shaners] added it to what?
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[shaners] how do you follow a website on quitter?
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social#Syndication
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gRegorLove What is quitter?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "quitter" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bh
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kylewm Quitter is a public instance of GNU social with a Twitter-like skin.
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loqi.me created /Quitter (+95) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453148369426 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove What is GNU social?
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Loqi GNU social is a free software project that "will be a decentralized social network that you can install on your own server" https://indiewebcamp.com/GNU_social
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KevinMarks then run windows in a js emulator so we can subscribe to the CDF feeds on our virtual desktops?
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GWG Afternoon
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GWG Counting down to IWC
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[shaners] The license for php-mf2 is now CC0
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[shaners] https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2#license
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk barnabywalters++
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Loqi barnabywalters has 84 karma
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[shaners] barnabywalters may not be very active in the channel these days, but he was very responsive on GitHub. :+1::skin-tone-2:
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GWG aaronpk, how close are you to completion of your launch list?
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GWG shaners, life does that.
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aaronpk GWG: as we speak, I just finished the last of my post type conversion scripts!
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[shaners] boom goes the dynamite
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[shaners] good job, aaronpk.
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[shaners] stay on target... almost there...
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GWG Just remember what that little engine said.
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aaronpk I feel like I should be publishing this launch checklist so people can follow it :P
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tantek what is a launch checklist?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "launch checklist" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bi
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[shaners] nah. you good. head down, power through.
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aaronpk aw, wunderlist removed their public sharing option
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GWG Aaronpk, I'll just hang out here in Mission Control and monitor the situation.
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tantek what is wunderlist?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wunderlist" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bj
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[shaners] I launched my /activities (weights and walks). http://veganstraightedge.com/activities
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aaronpk Wunderlist is an app for managing todo lists, is available for many desktop and mobile platforms, and has an API. http://wunderlist.com
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loqi.me created /Wunderlist (+162) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453149357841 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk [shaners] congrats!
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GWG aaronpk, you know I watch to figure out what I might do in two years.
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GWG shaners, what is next for you?
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[shaners] gwg: a bunch of post-launch housekeeping. bugs that showed up in the rebuild, refactors, performance
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[shaners] 1. make it work
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[shaners] 2. make it good
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[shaners] 3. make it fast
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GWG Been there for a while now myself
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[shaners] i need to get my “nested” pages working again
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[shaners] and a redirects manager
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[shaners] well, a better redirects manager
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GWG I want to, inspired by aaronpk, do flights, but to get to flights, I need events.
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[shaners] first things first. next things next.
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GWG To get to events, I need to finish venues.
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GWG To finish venues, I need to fix location support
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[shaners] just start at the start
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tantek GWG how do you keep track of that? do you have that as an ordered list on your working on page?
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GWG I should, but I have fear of rewrite
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Loqi I agree
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tantek GWG, well I find it's more work to keep it all in my head so I write it down instead
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GWG Because, once I have venues, I can add checkin
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tantek helps me focus on one thing at a time instead of feeling overwhelmed
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GWG There are side trips along the way
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tantek hence it's worth writing it down so you know what was the plan
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tantek and can feel free to go on side trips as necessary
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GWG Side trips on my way to trips?
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tantek exactly
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tantek who is GWG?
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Loqi David Shanske is an Indieweb enthusiast from New York, working on Indieweb WordPress plugin development http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com
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tantek here I'll help you with a start ;)
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GWG It seemed like a good idea because of how many things that I would hit on the way.
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tantek what is a flight?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "flight" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bk
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tantek flight is a type of [[travel]]
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loqi.me created /flight (+57) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453150418650 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+168) "add Working On section with implied dependency sequence from IRC" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, ok here you go, what you said in IRC but as an ordered list: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Working_On
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tantek or rather, ordered as a list (used unordered list items in case you want to move things around etc.)
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gRegorLove GWG: You can do minimal events and iterate. I didn't start with venues or location (presuming that means coordinates) for mine.
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gRegorLove Posting *something*, however minimal, gets me more excited to iterate on it.
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tantek gRegorLove: how do you determine what's of minimum viable usefulness to you though?
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tantek as in, sure, I post notes about events, but if it doesn't look or act any differently, then it's still a note
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tantek it's good to gather publishing practice, but writing a bunch of code without new functionality (a new post type "label" is not really new functionality) is kind of a form of yakshaving
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gRegorLove My use-case was keeping track of concerts I'm going to attend, and going back to add concerts I've attended in the past.
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[shaners] My /events are *really* minimal. http://veganstraightedge.com/events
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tantek gRegorLove: another way of looking at it - can you solve it with just a hashtag in your notes? fine, don't write any code for it.
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gRegorLove I started with date, time, venue name, venue address, and links to the band. Manually wrote the mf2
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tantek so in your case, if you could solve it by putting #concert in your notes, then you'd be done right?
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gRegorLove But yes, could be even more minimal that that of course.
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tantek events aren't really useful without at least a time and place (in addition to note / name)
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gRegorLove Yeah, I had both
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KevinMarks re the feed/stream/channel thing earlier: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2009/08/flow-past-web-even-better-than-realtime.html
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KartikPrabhu since presentations are being discussed what about same/similar presentation given at different events?
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KartikPrabhu see: https://kartikprabhu.com/talks numbers 2-4
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@energyovertime @pixlpa on your own personal website where you own your own content #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/689195671966973952)
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aaronpk wow okay. fixed some more bugs, now i'm gonna let it import a bunch of my posts for a while. next up is importing comments/likes/etc!
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aaronpk *sigh* some day i will be done with this project
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miklb hey! Been lurking past day or two & doing a lot of reading on indieweb. Just want thank everyone for sharing info. Very inspired to embrace more of the ideas I've been reading.
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gRegorLove aaronpk: I liked the battery icon at the top right of a link you shared earlier. 50% power. Is that tied to your import progress? :)
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gRegorLove Hi, miklb. Welcome!
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KartikPrabhu i think it is aaronpk's phone battery
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miklb thanks gRegorLove
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gRegorLove miklb: Do you have a website?
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miklb gRegorLove yes. I just converted away from a fairly defunct php project, Habari, to Jekyll. same url as my IRC nick
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miklb just now starting process of implemnting basics for indieweb.
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aaronpk gRegorLove: it's actually my phone battery!
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gRegorLove Ha! How are you doing that aaronpk?
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aaronpk same way I track location persistently
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aaronpk the GPS tracking app also includes battery % and charging state each time it tracks a location
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KartikPrabhu wow! that is a lot of access for a GPS app
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gRegorLove Heh, never thought about battery power being available to an app, but it makes sense
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KartikPrabhu keeps getting reminded about how messed up phone app permissions are
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aaronpk well i made the app, so...
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aaronpk https://github.com/esripdx/GPS-Logger-iOS
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KartikPrabhu oh :P
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KartikPrabhu i was also commenting in general
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gRegorLove miklb: Cool! Have you signed in to the wiki yet? You can add yourself to /irc-people with an avatar and then it will show up in the logs and link to your site.
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gRegorLove e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18
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miklb gRegorLove I have not yet. I will once I have a little more implemented. New to Ruby in general, so slowly working through the implementation. Currently working on using Aaron Gustafson's Jekyll webmetion gem
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miklb that log is neat
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miklb if anyone has any additional Jekyll tools to suggest, I'm all ears
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KartikPrabhu what is jekyll?
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Loqi Jekyll is Ruby software that helps you create "Simple, blog-aware, static sites" suitable for static domain hosting https://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll
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KartikPrabhu miklb: that page ^ and also add new ones you find :)
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miklb the jekmentions sounded interesting, but seems broken. I've read through that extensively. but thanks!
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KartikPrabhu miklb: in general it is a good idea to look for code that the author is using themselves. Those are less likely to be broken
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's a good point to add to /selfdogfood
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miklb sure, thus why I'm digging deep into Aaron's site :-D
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KartikPrabhu tantek: will do in a bit
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@legocoder RT @aaronpk Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/689203301892620288)
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KartikPrabhu what is selfdogfood?
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Loqi selfdogfood is a stronger form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, as an aspect of your primary online identity, day to day — if you're not willing to use your creation on your own primary personal website, why should anyone else use it on their primary personal website? https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
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KartikPrabhu tantek: should I just add it in perspectives?
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tantek that's a good start. if you feel it's fairly obvious / undisputed, add it to Why
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tantek it's good to have more documented reasons to prefer software/service(s) that are selfdogfooded
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KartikPrabhu ok will add a "Why" section. Also update capitalisation on section titles
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tantek do we have consistent capitalization?
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KartikPrabhu not on that page
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tantek I mean anywhere
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KartikPrabhu probably not
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KartikPrabhu should "why" be the first section?
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KartikPrabhu and should there be an Indieweb Examples section?
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tantek yes!
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tantek our usual sections are Why, How, IndieWeb Examples
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tantek I feel like I've written this down somewhere...
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KartikPrabhu what is wikify?
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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tantek congrats shaners on launching activities - and events (how long has that been up?) !
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tantek add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/event#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek etc.
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tantek a-ha https://indiewebcamp.com/expand_a_page KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu cool
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+100) "/* Incremental Wikifying */ expand a page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+20) "/* See Also */ expand a page" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I could set up a substitution template that would populate the common sections on new wiki pages.
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tantek gRegorLove: I think that's a kind of anti-pattern - prepopulation with filler text that just serves as a distraction / dilution of the actual meaningful text in the page
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kartikprabhu.com edited /selfdogfood (+311) "add Why, How to, Indieweb Examples" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I meant the section headings only
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KartikPrabhu tantek: review please ^^
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KartikPrabhu maybe the "edit" page could link to /wikify and /expand_a_page near the top ?
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tantek the new page template does link to /start_a_page
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tantek KartikPrabhu: nice update!
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KartikPrabhu yes and so edit could link to /expand_a_page in a similar way
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KartikPrabhu sort of like "editing help" link
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+2220) "why vs why not, move quotes back to top since they are more generally illustrative than why/whynot specific, add self to examples, subheads for people" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: review ^^^ please :)
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KartikPrabhu looks good
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kartikprabhu.com edited /selfdogfood (+6) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ add date" (view diff)
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sknebel miklb: I filed a issue on jekmention at Github: https://github.com/fiatjaf/jekmentions/issues/4
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sknebel I was looking at webmention/comment solutions yesterday
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miklb sknebel: thanks. should have done the same, not sure I saw the project on GitHub
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sknebel ideally what I want is "webmention-enabled disqus-clone with the option to selfhost"
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sknebel What is Disqus?
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Loqi Disqus is a comments hosting silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Disqus
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miklb sknebel: the webmention.io gem I mentioned earlier seems to be a good solution. I just need to figure out how to add a rake file to the travis ci publish script I have
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tantek sknebel I think we have a couple of those, in particular voxpelli's service that I think KevinMarks uses
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sknebel k, will take a look at that
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tantek what is webmention.herokuapp.com?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmention.herokuapp.com" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Bm
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miklb sknebel: https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io
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tantek hmm - that needs a name
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kylewm tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 270 karma
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sknebel ah, yes. ideally I'd want something that does "regular" comments as well
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sknebel but I suppose I could build something that hosts user comments as posts
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sknebel and sends webmentions to myself
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sknebel mh, have to think about that, I'm getting ahead of myself
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tantek and I hesitate to use "A WebMention Endpoint" as the formal name of webmention.herokuapp.com
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sknebel I try to not overengineer this attempt at a website
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sknebel content first, then features
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sknebel fallen into that trap to oftne in the past
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tantek !tell voxpelli is "A WebMention Endpoint" seriously the formal name of webmention.herokuapp.com or would you consider a more specifc (less confusing as a general phrase) name?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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miklb sknebel: likewise. Finally took the plunge to move so I could actually **start** doing and stop *thinking about it*
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kylewm I propose calling it Voxmention
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tantek webmention.herokuapp.com is {{voxpelli}}'s [[Webmention]] endpoint as a service, for both receiving and displaying (via JS embed) webmentions.
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kylewm !tell voxpelli I propose Voxmention :)
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loqi.me created /webmention.herokuapp.com (+169) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-18/line/1453157358465 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek kylewm: ^^^ feel free to add that to a "Suggested Names" section :)
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kylewm Vox-anything sounds cool
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miklb it seems with static sites, receiving isn't the hard part, it is the sending webmentions that proves more difficult
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petermolnar miklb grep for urls and curl them :)
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tantek miklb: I think /Telegraph can do that for you
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miklb what is Telegraph?
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Loqi Telegraph is an open source API and service for sending webmentions, part of the p3k suite https://indiewebcamp.com/Telegraph
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petermolnar miklb why are they hard for sending, what issues are you facing?
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miklb petermolnar: specifically in my case, I don't know Ruby (yet) so having an out-of-the-box solution is proving difficult. Also, I tend to over engineer and get ahead of myself.
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snarfed voxpelli and i have had the "it needs a name" conversation a few times before :P
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petermolnar do you know bash, do you have a shell access on the site generator server, or are you generatic the site locally on your computer and just pushing the static files?
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miklb I believe the aforementioned Ruby gem I linked to will send them on publish, I just need to chain it into my build process
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miklb petermolnar: currently I do have a VPS, but am using travis ci to build the site and push from a git branch to the master on GitHub, bypassing their restrictions on built in Jekyll support
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miklb will most likely switch to my own VPS once I've worked out the kinks
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petermolnar fair enough
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miklb since one of my goals was to be able to publish to my site from iOS, this is a workflow that is allowing that. I can write a markdown file on my phone, and push via another iOS app (Working Copy) have it publish
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