#indiewebcamp 2016-01-30

2016-01-30 UTC
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aaronpk wow so much stuff happens when I make a new post
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aaronpk syndicating, sending webmentions, sending PuSH notifications for each feed the post was added to
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kylewm not to mention the stuff that happens in response to a PuSH notification
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aaronpk and webmentions
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[kevinmarks] ben was grumbling about so much of that being synchronous in PHP
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aaronpk that's why you just do it asynchronously
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aaronpk all of it is running in a background queue for me
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tantek.com edited /Disqus (+557) "How to Export stub based on request in IRC" (view diff)
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aaronpk *whew* okay my new runkeeper import is working now!
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tantek wow busy Friday in PST
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tantek reads yesterday's logs from tomorrow in Sydney.
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aaronpk I swear I am going to launch this site this weekend
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tantek go go go!
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GWG aaronpk, in my professional life, I am often called upon to give motivational coaching to those I supervise. Do you need a pep talk.
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aaronpk I am planning on spending all day tomrrow on it!
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aaronpk oh I have plenty of motivation! and this time also have the time!
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GWG I have decided to pause my venue work in favor of the Indieweb plugin update.
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GWG I was stalled on a few design points anyway
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GWG Of course, still wondering where to draw the line.
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tantek.com edited /Events (+113) "add more coverage and slides to Calum's talk, move to recent" (view diff)
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aaronpk forgot to add photo import to runkeeper but now that is done
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aaronpk next up is sleep importing
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GWG I prefer not to outsource that myself.
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aaronpk lately i've actually been entering it manually from an app on my pebble that doesn't sync anywhere
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aaronpk but ideally I want this to be using the jawbone since it's still the best
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tantek davidascher: I see you got yelled at for advocating HTTPS
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tantek I think https://indiewebcap.com/HTTPS makes a good collective/community case for HTTPS, and encourage you to add your reasons to it as well!
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (-15) "HWC SF venue confirmed @MozSF" (view diff)
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social.thedavidjohnson.com edited /User:Social.thedavidjohnson.com (+81) "/* David G. Johnson */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club (-7) "HWC SF venue confirmed @MozSF" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club (-6) "HWC SF venue confirmed @MozSF" (view diff)
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tantek !tell kylewm HWC SF venue @MozSF confirmed for February meetups, and first meetup in March. 2nd March meetup venue up to you! All ready for you to post indie events + FB POSSE copies for 2016-02 and 2016-03 HWC SF events. Thanks much!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@TheDavidJohnson Spending some time this week getting better acquainted with the #indiewebcamp community. Lots to learn! (twitter.com/_/status/693251213492551680)
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@blakedotfr RT @zeldman Don’t be an architecture astronaut. #indieweb http://indiewebcamp.com/architecture_astronomy (twitter.com/_/status/693251546348412929)
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social.thedavidjohnson.com edited /Planning (+206) "/* Florida */ adding my own interest in a Florida IndieWebCamp event" (view diff)
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kylewm iiiinteresting webmention, https://kylewm.com/2016/01/i-dont-know-for-sure-that-theyre-worth-all-the
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 41 minutes ago: HWC SF venue @MozSF confirmed for February meetups, and first meetup in March. 2nd March meetup venue up to you! All ready for you to post indie events + FB POSSE copies for 2016-02 and 2016-03 HWC SF events. Thanks much! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-29/line/1454118026780
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kylewm but https://brid.gy/twitter/kylewmahan says it's the original and no targets found
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kylewm tantek: I am on it
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GWG kylewm: Did I miss this? Did you abandon redwind?
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kylewm GWG: https://kylewm.com/2016/01/moving-kylewmcom-to-known-indieweb
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GWG I think I must have missed that.
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GWG Better update my feed reader
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kylewm oh! I didn't think of that!
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kylewm need to add a redirect for my xml feeds
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GWG Well, if someone came up with an Android h-feed reader..
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GWG I'm still using RSS for that
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GWG Updating now.
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GWG Not working so far.
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kylewm it turns out I do not know how to redirect a query string
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kylewm ?feed=atom -> ?_t=rss
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GWG It is having a parsing error
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aaronpk you can match that at your web server layer if you want to avoid php
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GWG LibXML Error 26.
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GWG Oh well
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kylewm I bet it's upset about that repost that had all sorts of garbage in it
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GWG Quite possibly
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GWG But I'm not talking to the tt-rss developer about it
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kylewm unrelated - should I be salt/hasing API tokens that are stored in my database??
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aaronpk technically that's best practice, but if you plan on ever being able to show the token to users then you can't
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kylewm and like, silo.pub has no choice but to store them
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kylewm GWG: I'd be curious to know if the feed is working now
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GWG kylewm: You adjusted the post?
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kylewm yeah
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aaronpk yeah. your other option is to store an encrypted version in the database with a key that your application has, that way at least a compromised database doesn't expose all the tokens
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kylewm that's smart
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GWG LibXML error 26 at line 179 (column 42): Entity 'mdash' not defined
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kylewm I removed the mdash
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GWG Let me see if I can force a refresh.
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kylewm no hurry
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tantek oh that's interesting: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?diff=25118&oldid=24757&rcid=25085 in particular "late Feb for WordCamp"
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tantek I wonder if an IndieWebCamp adjacent to a WordCamp would make sense.
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tantek GWG, what do you think?
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aaronpk ooh neat
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GWG I think it would work nicely.
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GWG But would require a lot of that discussion we've been having.
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GWG Possibly worth having at a Wordcamp
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GWG kylewm: Working now
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GWG Found the fresh
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GWG tantek: I was going to go to Wordcamp NYC, but I hurt myself before and had to spend the weekend sitting very still.
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GWG But there is definitely potential for cross-pollination
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tantek GWG, indeed, I don't want to rush that discussion for sure
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tantek I'm also hoping for general community cross-pollination
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GWG tantek: One community at a time
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aaronpk wow well this mime type detector sucks
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aaronpk i'm sending an SVG file and it thinks it's text
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aaronpk not really sure what to do about that
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aaronpk hm actually i have a workaround for this particular case, but it's kind of a general problem with using named parameters like "photo" in micropub
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aaronpk sleep importing is working now! \o/
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@ChloeBowens3 Spending some time this week getting better acquainted with the #indiewebcamp community. Lots to learn! (twitter.com/_/status/693267649199878145)
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kylewm bahaha that photo looks hilarious on the event https://www.facebook.com/events/900424876732270/
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tantek 😂 kylewm at #SquadGoals
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tantek there's just too much goodness in that event photo to fit into a tweet about RSVPing to the event
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kylewm lol
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tantek also - clearly illustrates the need to add event header/featured photos to indie event support in Known, when you compare it to https://kylewm.com/2016/01/sf-homebrew-website-club-9
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (+107) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club (+109) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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tantek which then begs the question, should an /event post with a featured/header photo be POSSEd to Twitter as a tweet with a photo?
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tantek and should an /event post without a featured/header photo, but with a location, be POSSEd to Twitter as a tweet with a photo which is just a static rendered image of the map view of the venue / location?
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kylewm that would be nice!
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tantek now wondering if I should build my event posts as extensions of my photo posts to kind of force that in my own posting behavior
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tantek I have no idea on what "engagement" or "response rate" is on events with header photos vs. events without, but I'm *guessing* that with photos is much higher
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tantek though the event case is more like an article with a featured photo than a photo post
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tantek events have names like articles have names
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kylewm also curious about event photos with people vs. event photos that are just the IWC logo
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tantek btw - could you (or KevinMarks? who ever has the photo) add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club#Photos as well?
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kylewm I can hotlink Liberty's instagram photo?
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tantek yes!
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club (+129) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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tantek and link to the original then ;)
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tantek ah she added the @-names and #SquadGoals ok this is now making more sense
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tantek checks her twitter
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tantek this makes my day: https://twitter.com/libertymadison/status/692776428509667328
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@libertymadison #Squad Meet the team who runs the Internet @kevinmarks @t @kylewmahan @scottros @benwerd @rrrrrrrix #startuplife [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/692776428509667328)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club (+86) "/* Photos */ linky, max width 100%" (view diff)
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kylewm oh haha, you thought I did?
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tantek yes I did
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TheDavidJohnson So I stepped out for a little bit, but if there's interest in doing something adjacent to WordCamp in Miami, I'd be glad to help organize
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: When is WordCamp in Miami?
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TheDavidJohnson It's coming up quickly: 2/19/2016 - 2/21/2016
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GWG I won't be in Florida till early March.
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GWG I have to find a lifestyle that supports my desire to attend conferences.
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TheDavidJohnson Right? If you work that out, let me know
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GWG Either way, back to updating the Indieweb WordPress plugin, speaking of that.
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: Hope you will tell me if you work it out as well.
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TheDavidJohnson GWG Agreed
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@indiewebcamp RT @libertymadison #Squad Meet the team who runs the Internet @kevinmarks @t @kylewmahan @scottros @benwerd @rrrrrrrix #startuplife https://twitter.com/libertymadison/status/692776428509667328/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/693275709335166976)
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tantek ok /event#POSSE is getting big enough for subheads
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: What do you plan to do at WordCamp?
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: Not sure yet... I'm taking my wife to familiarize her with the WordPress / open source community, so I'll be playing tour guide for sure
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: We use WordPress heavily in our business, so it should be fun for all sorts of reasons
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: I keep trying to get WordPress people interested.
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tantek.com edited /event (+681) "/* POSSE */ subheadings, a few more notes for tweet POSSEing" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @calum_ryan Slides from my talk last night @FrontEndLondon https://calumryan.com/talks/fel-280116/ Thanks to all at FEL Credits to @t, @adactio + #indieweb community (twitter.com/_/status/693281498376458240)
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@indiewebcamp RT @manton2 Micropub and the quiet IndieWebCamp revolution: http://www.manton.org/2016/01/micropub-and-the-quiet-indiewebcamp-revolution.html (twitter.com/_/status/693281627074506752)
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@rickydelaveaga RT @manton2 Micropub and the quiet IndieWebCamp revolution: http://www.manton.org/2016/01/micropub-and-the-quiet-indiewebcamp-revolution.html (twitter.com/_/status/693282129392771073)
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tantek kylewm: lol at the Twitter card image here: https://twitter.com/t/status/693282940600487936
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@t going to Homebrew Website Club 17:30 @MozSF 2016-02-10! Facebook https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser RSVP: https://kylewm.com/2016/01/sf-homebrew-website-club-9 (ttk.me t4fV2) (twitter.com/_/status/693282940600487936)
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: Sounds like a worthy goal. What do you find most challenging about bringing WordPress users around?
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: Well, judging by the feedback so far, the plugins we have need some simplification and improvement.
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GWG You can't assume everyone can make the modifications themselves.
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: I just updated them for the first time in a while on one of my sites... so I haven't really used them in months. Planning to dive in to them this weekend and see how much they've improved
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: Which ones?
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: I installed one (I think it was "IndieWeb") and got prompted to install quite a few others
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TheDavidJohnson Honestly, I lost track -- I had trouble with one or another of them, and couldn't make the time to try to sort out what was going on
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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TheDavidJohnson Ha!! I have to get used to that. I guess I need to not phrase things in ways that can be confused as questions
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: That is the issue I'm trying to work on.
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TheDavidJohnson GWG: I'm sorry I don't have useful feedback -- I'll get some usage under my belt here shortly and will be glad to do what I can to help
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TheDavidJohnson (I'm not much of a coder yet, but I can troubleshoot and provide detailed feedback)
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GWG The plugins were written as itches by various people. They need some tweaking to work for a more general audience.
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GWG TheDavidJohnson: I'm a horrible coder, but I seem to survive.
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tantek.com edited /read_receipt (+138) "improve dfn, relate to messsagin" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /read (+186) "brainstorming Read Receipts" (view diff)
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@zoraslapen webmention.io Easily enable webmentions and pingbacks on any web page (twitter.com/_/status/693298278025162752)
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tantek kinda shocked there's no "opened envelope" emoji
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@adityakong RT @zoraslapen webmention.io Easily enable webmentions and pingbacks on any web page (twitter.com/_/status/693300113754591232)
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC/Venues_and_Checkins (+4) "link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /checkin (+103) "/* sessions */ add session from IWC NYC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /checkin (+844) "/* Brainstorming */ offline checkins, background, use-case, workaround" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+218) "/* Indie Venues and Checkins */ checkin#offline_checkins" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+50) "/* Indie Venues and Checkins */ link IWC NYC session, key checkin realizations" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, in case it helps I've been collecting (for a while) some thoughts on checkins: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Key_checkin_realizations
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GWG I'm bookmarking that. I'm working on new Indieweb Menus for the WordPress plugin.
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC/Guest_List (+320) "add EmmaHodge.org until she edits it herself" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /iPod (+287) "/* How to */ Messages extract with aaronpk's PHP, Photos, download with Image Capture" (view diff)
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mothersele Any details of Movim from Indieweb perspective? I'm at fosdem and thinking of going along to this: https://fosdem.org/2016/schedule/event/movim/
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tantek what is Movim?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Movim" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10CZ
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tantek mothersele: looks like no one here has heard of it, if you go, ask them if they support indieweb formats and protocols like Webmention and Micropub
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tantek since it claims to be "fully standard" :)
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mothersele yep will do
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mothersele looks like it uses xmpp
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miklb hmm. Seems like my build and webmention fires before the page is available on GitHub so bridgy doesn't send the mention
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kylewm raceconditions--
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Loqi raceconditions has -1 karma
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miklb yeah. After everything to get all of it to work, stymied again
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miklb At least that's what I'm assuming https://brid.gy/log
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miklb guess I can't paste the full log
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: are you markig up original-of in some way on your homepage?
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sknebel what is original-of?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "original-of" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10C_
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@dissolve333 #indieweb @t Just leftover W words on my fridge (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2014/10/21/1/) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/693382929460830209/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/693382929460830209)
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@Oranadoz The NASCAR problem http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR_problem (twitter.com/_/status/693394692407427072)
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cweiske.de edited /site-deaths (+415) "/* Upcoming */ add yahoo boss hosted search" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 @benwerd There is a large and growing #openscience movement goes hand in hand with #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/693404673039011840)
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cweiske aaronpk, I get a white page (but 200 OK) when trying to sign into your website
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@RikMende RT @mothersele 3 great talks @FrontEndLondon last night, #indieweb and #es6 - my review: http://www.darrenmothersele.com/blog/2016/01/29/my-first-frontend-london/ (twitter.com/_/status/693415800204611584)
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tantek having RSVPd to the HWCSF events in February, thinking about what would make a more compelling but brief event description
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tantek e.g. the description on the wiki is largely unchanged from the beginning, based on the summary of the Homebrew Computer Club's description: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club#What
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tantek for comparison, the description when I announce it on the Monday before HWC, at Mozilla: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2016-01-25#Wednesday.2C_27_January
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tantek goal: make it both more interesting/attractive if you're just curious (want to find out more), and make it more welcoming to creatives of all kinds (similar to recent IWC Guest List page changes)
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tantek starts playing with CSS object-fit
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mothersele short codes, as used in url shortners. are there any best practise recommendations for generating them?
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mothersele answering my own question :) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/742013/how-to-code-a-url-shortener
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (+723) "put a draft summary description right at the top to better draw people in, featured image" (view diff)
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@willnorris @wanda_lotus I delegate to https://indieauth.com/ myself for OpenID (view source on https://willnorris.com/) /cc @chrismessina @pfefferle (twitter.com/_/status/693447877939503104)
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: I haven't added a link to it anywhere yet. I'll figure that out after I launch, I just needed the functionality for my import script :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /short-domains (-13) "/* aaron.pk */" (view diff)
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aaronpk mothersele: I do short URLs like this: http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#aaron.pk
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kodfabrik.se edited /webmention.herokuapp.com (+989) "Extended the wiki page of my webmention endpoint" (view diff)
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mothersele thanks @aaronpk I've become averse to long, so called search-engine friendly, urls. i'm going to default to short urls. and 301 all my old urls to new short-url permalinks. does that seem like a reasonable thing to do?
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk what is URL design?
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Loqi URL design is the practice of deliberately designing URLs, in particular, permalinks, typically for a better UX for everyone who creates, reads, and shares content https://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design
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aaronpk see some more thoughts there. there are some human-friendly reasons for having structured (and longer) URLs
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mothersele yes some good points on that page. i'll ponder this for a while. maybe i'm being too zen.
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aaronpk heh so far i've been consistently at 3-4 years per site rebuild
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aaronpk 1999-2004, 2004-2008, 2008-2012, 2012-2016, 2016-present
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aaronpk still can't believe i lost the files for the first version of my site tho
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kylewm mothersele: a nice middle ground is having the identifying part of the URL be short, but include a descriptive slug that can be anything
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kylewm so if it gets line wrapped by an email/irc client, or you change the slug, the link still works
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kylewm (he says, while doing exactly the opposite)
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voxpelli if one does that, then ensuring a redirect or a rel-canonical to the expected slug is also a good idea
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kylewm voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 62 karma
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GWG voxpelli: Working on some of your commits to the Indieweb plugin
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voxpelli GWG: cool, feel free to ask if you have any questions about them :)
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mothersele how about I use my short url as the permalink, but when routing, treat the end of the url as arbitrary fluff that is ignored. That allows me to write whatever i feel like writing on the end of the url, depending on context
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GWG voxpelli: I'm merging in some of the code I used when I tried this problem elsewhere, and then I'm removing it from elsewhere
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kylewm mothersele: it lets anybody else write whatever they feel like writing too ;)
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voxpelli GWG: ok, if you need a review or somehting then give me a ping
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kylewm and would confuse e.g. bridgy -- it wouldn't know to backfeed comments on example.com/a1234/friendly-slug to canonical url example.com/a1234
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voxpelli mothersele: depends on how that arbitrary fluffy stuff is going to get added and if you do a redirect if the fluffiness has has become the wrong kind of fluff
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GWG voxpelli: Lots of work first. I had icons
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aaronpk well that was a weird trip down memory lane. just archived my 2008-2012 mediawiki site as static HTML so I can keep it around
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Schnitz rehi
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Schnitz back from vacation
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Schnitz loqi !tell snarfed I haven't changed anything from my side but my posseing from tumblr does seem to work anymore, I'm still investigating if it has something to do with a change within tumblr, maybe you know more with regards to bridgy? https://brid.gy/tumblr/belp.audio
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Loqi is done
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Schnitz loqi !tell snarfed ... doesN'T seem work anymore ...
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Schnitz s/does/doesn't
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Loqi Schnitz meant to say: loqi !tell snarfed ... doesn'tN'T seem work anymore ...
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Schnitz oh well :)
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aaronpk it's just "!tell"
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Schnitz ah ok thx aaronpk :)
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Schnitz !tell snarfed I haven't changed anything from my side but my posseing from tumblr doesn't seem to work anymore, I'm still investigating if it has something to do with a change within tumblr, maybe you know more with regards to bridgy? https://brid.gy/tumblr/belp.audio !tell
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Schnitz had 3 weeks of digital detox, still getting used to technology again... ;)
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GWG voxpelli: To start, the Default Author is set on the widget itself. Since one of the proposals brought forth is t have a top-level menu for Indieweb enabled by the plugin, it should be set as a global option, not just for the widget.
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voxpelli GWG: ok, not sure it's actually needed at all actually
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GWG voxpelli: Also, I'm trying to think of a scenario where you'd have an author for the site itself when it was multi-author.
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voxpelli GWG: since either the blog is multi-author and then everything should be attributed to each and every author individually, or it's single-author and then the default author is kind of obvious
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GWG The logical change is that if there is only one author, then it should set up as author = site. If there are multiple authors, it should behave like a multi-author site and scope to the page.
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GWG voxpelli: You beat me to the conclusion there, but I think we are both on the same page
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voxpelli GWG: to answer the scenario one – only I can think of is if one starts to have guest blogs on ones single author site, but that sounds like somewhat of an edge case :/
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voxpelli s/blogs/posts/
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Loqi voxpelli meant to say: GWG: to answer the scenario one – only I can think of is if one starts to have guest posts on ones single author site, but that sounds like somewhat of an edge case :/
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GWG voxpelli: If you have guest posts, it should be a repost.
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voxpelli GWG: guest posts are usually posted on someones elses blog and only later, maybe, posted on ones own
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aaronpk i'm updating my phone to iOS 9 finally, as part of my site launch believe it or not
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GWG voxpelli: I think we can consider it an edge case till someone asks though.
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voxpelli I agree
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GWG voxpelli: I also split the various classes into their own files.
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voxpelli GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 143 karma
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voxpelli That should give a better overview of the code
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GWG It is now at three php files, not counting the Getting Started page.
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GWG One for the Rel-Me Widget, one for the extensions to the user profile, and the main file for the settings.
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GWG Also, petermolnar coded Last.FM. Is that an IndieAuth provider?
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GWG aaronpk: Is this list up to date? http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth.com
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aaronpk i think last.fm broke their rel=me link on their latest redesign
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bupk.es edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (+155) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah there's no more link to my site on my last.fm profile :(
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bupk.es edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (-27) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: I'll leave it on the list. Just trying to make sure I have everything in.
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:indieauth.com-status (+9) "last.fm redesign removed the user's website from their profile page" (view diff)
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bupk.es edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (+7) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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bupkes sorry about those edits, my bad.
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@pierreozoux #appdeath #indieweb #indieapp :) Mailbox Blog https://blogs.dropbox.com/mailbox/ https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2016/appdeath-indieweb-indieapp-mailbox-blog-mailbox (twitter.com/_/status/693489572915843074)
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aaronpk taking this opportunity to also upgrade my ubuntu system while i'm at it
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GWG aaronpk, how long has it been?
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aaronpk not sure
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aaronpk i'm writing everything down and setting a reminder to do this every 2 months tho
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aaronpk including updating nginx, openssl, and updating the cipher list
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aaronpk also i'm gonna have http2 support!
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GWG aaronpk, all good things. You should write about them.
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kylewm I really need to figure out the micropub syndicate-to stuff
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kylewm the syndication buttons in woodwind look beyond terrible now
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aaronpk i will gladly help as soon as this site is launched
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GWG aaronpk, how stable is the standard with the draft specification out?
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aaronpk not very. I added a big red warning in a couple sections.
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GWG I guess I will hold off on the problem for a bit then.
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kylewm aaronpk: I will take you up on that!
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+722) "/* Discovering Supported Syndication Targets */ add expanded form-encoding example and note difficulty with making h-card method backward compatible" (view diff)
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@coreload RT @w3c First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5268 (twitter.com/_/status/693504142862487554)
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@roomthily the webbiest - i want an IndieWeb suite of open tools for open science data publishing. idealist... alt future dreams... (twitter.com/_/status/693507880972980224)
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@kid_OYO Just because we're kids doesn't mean we want kid tools. Bring on the #indieweb #Java #Javascript #Python #Unity C++ #Ruby for realz #protip (twitter.com/_/status/693512840242696192)
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@mothersele V. Bush describes an #indieweb tool in 1945,calls it Memex "trails of thought, unlike memory, that would never fade" http://worrydream.com/refs/Bush%20-%20As%20We%20May%20Think%20%28Life%20Magazine%209-10-1945%29.pdf (twitter.com/_/status/693515941297127424)
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snarfed !tell Schnitz https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/609 :(:(:(
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Loqi snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 2 hours, 42 minutes ago: I haven't changed anything from my side but my posseing from tumblr doesn't seem to work anymore, I'm still investigating if it has something to do with a change within tumblr, maybe you know more with regards to bridgy? https://brid.gy/tumblr/belp.audio !tell http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-30/line/1454173805143
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk here goes the import!
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aaronpk oh no
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aaronpk *sigh* php on my old site is too old and i can't install a dependency for my export script
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KartikPrabhu ruroh!
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aaronpk i'm gonna have to export it from my laptop version
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tantek good day #indiewebcamp!
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GWG Good day, tantek.
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GWG How are things down under?
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tantek currently, tropical
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tantek I would like some visual / design feedback
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GWG I can try, but it is a weakness of mine.
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tantek it's ok, just give your natural reaction
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tantek please take a look at the next-hwc meetup - I made a bunch of visual / text changes. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club
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tantek you can compare it to the previous version: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club
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tantek ^^^ and that's a general request for anyone in the channel - feedback request that is
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GWG I like the image at the top. It makes it look more inviting
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KartikPrabhu I like the inviting intro; better than having just a when where etc... to start
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the next Homebrew Website Club is February 10th - post your photos on your own site so we can reuse them (twitter.com/_/status/693531496536240128)
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mothersele @tantek adding the image makes it much more inviting
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KartikPrabhu mothersele: better not to add the "@" in front of the names. In the logs it will link to a twitter account and @tantek is not tantek's twitter!
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mothersele thanks
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mothersele bad habits
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GWG tantek: Only one thing...shouldn't the caption be domain names on the picture, not Twitter handles?
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aaronpk oh man, apparently I broke images in a bunch of my old blog posts and never noticed
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's ok, I have @tantek too - it just tells people to use @t :)
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tantek GWG - good point!!
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KartikPrabhu oh! didn't know :)
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mothersele twitter handles -> irc names -> domain names? how do we identify ourselves
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tantek mothersele: hence rel=me!
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aaronpk hahaha https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/7308882889
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@aaronpk spent 2 hours this morning reading @t's productivity tips instead of getting real work done. #irony http://aaron.pk/Pk (twitter.com/_/status/7308882889)
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GWG I would think domain names
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tantek the point is that no matter how you identify yourself, you should be able to "follow your nose" and find the indie web site
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GWG Isn't it, Hello, my URL is?
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tantek oh no what productivity tips
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tantek oh I thought the /Pk was a typo!
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aaronpk ha!
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tantek my brain de-duped it
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aaronpk strange coincidence!
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tantek oh dear, and now you've nerd-sniped me into updating that FOUR YEAR OLD page :P
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tantek KevinMarks: can you ask Liberty for a version that photo with our domain names instead (or at least *before*) our Twitter handles?!?
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tantek ok I'm updating the FB event text too then
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aaronpk so many posts
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tantek how did you come across that tweet?
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aaronpk i'm importing all my old posts!
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aaronpk currently in mid 2011 http://new.aaronparecki.com/2011
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tantek aaronpk could I get your opinion on the update to the top of https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club ? (photo and description text at top)
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aaronpk there seems to be a disconnect between the opening sentence and that photo: "join us for an evening of quiet writing"
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aaronpk I like the bullets tho!
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tantek yes - photo posing improvement suggestions welcome!
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tantek ok I'll add the bullets to the next 02-24 also
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tantek and for the photo - we can add that based on the next one!
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club (+487) "add summary before TOC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club (+486) "add summary before TOC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2016-03-23-homebrew-website-club (+486) "add summary before TOC" (view diff)
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tantek ok that's a good enough stretch to try out the new intro text
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tantek alright, how about whichever city posts the best HWC photos from one meetup, we use it for the next event posting? (where best includes factors like total numbers, diversity, pose creativity etc.)
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tantek I know Portland has some good examples of that in the past :)
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tantek (and Brighton too)
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Emma1 hello friends!
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Emma1 how can i add a picture to my website?
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GWG Emma1: That may require more information. What is your website?
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Emma1 emmahodge.org
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Sebsel It looks like you have the GitHub-pages setup?
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miklb done at IWC NY iirc
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Emma1 yes!
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Sebsel Well, if you edit your index.html and add <img src="/imagename.jpg"> to it, that will add an image to the page. But you'll have to upload that image to your Github too, to display it for everyone to see.
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Sebsel I'm not really familiar with Github pages...
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Emma1 ok, thank you - i'll try that!
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GWG Neither am I, I'm afraid. I should play with it
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miklb Emma1: you could use your twitter profile image if that's what you are looking for.<img class="u-photo" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/657573921340960769/PIhVAcIf_400x400.jpg">
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Sebsel Oh nice.
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Emma1 oh cool! thanks!
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aaronpk ahahaha who registered homebrewwebsite.club?
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Loqi ahahaha
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Emma1 ah it worked!
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Emma1 yay.
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Loqi giggles
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Emma1 thank you guys!
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KartikPrabhu nice!
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Sebsel yaay!
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Emma1 how can i change the font on my website?? (also - does anyone have a suggestion of a good place to learn some basic things about building a website? I really dont know anything beyond the few things i learned at the indie web camp last weekend in NYC!)
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Sebsel Well, HTML and CSS are the place to start, I think, seeing the path you took with Github pages?
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Sebsel Searching for 'basic HTML CSS tutorial' must give you plenty of video's and sites :)
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GWG Well, I'm sure someone wrote a tutorial on writing a site on Github pages
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miklb \_O_/ officially sending webmentions with my Jekyll build
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Emma1 ok, cool! thanks for the suggestions
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miklb eh, sorta
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miklb GitHub does have some info for GitHub pages.
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: MDN has good documentation of things for reference: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web
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Emma1 awesome -- thanks!
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Sebsel Maybe a good idea to update the blank site starter with an external CSS file? Then we could've suggested one line to change the font now
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Emma1 hmmmm how do i do that?
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@kylewmahan Cleaned them up a bit with "syndicate-to-expanded" from https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Di ... https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/status/693554821849178112/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/693554821849178112)
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GWG Sebsel: I think that you may be getting ahead of things.
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GWG Emma1: I think the first question is: Is basic web design something you want to learn?
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Emma1 yes!
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GWG Okay, having established that, you need to cover enough some basic HTML and CSS ground.
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GWG http://www.w3schools.com/html/
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GWG You can try something like this...to get some basic information
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KartikPrabhu GWG: no w3schools sometimes has inaccurate info
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GWG There are dozens of online courses
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GWG https://www.codecademy.com/learn/web
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GWG There's codeacademy.
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GWG I'm trying to find basic tutorials.
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GWG Not sure if I have a recommendation. KartikPrabhu, do you know what is good in a basic HTML/CSS tutorial?
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KartikPrabhu I learnt by making files and adding stuff to them na dseeing other people's source code
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KartikPrabhu so I don't know actual tutorials
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GWG I went a hybrid route.
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GWG I read a few basic tutorials, then started looking at how sites I liked did things
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aaronpk I learned from books. Do people do that anymore?
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GWG aaronpk: I do to a point.
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miklb another option, would be to look at something like http://html5up.net pick a design, and then use the references to understand what is going on in the code
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: instead of learning all of HTML/CSS or something what is the next thing you'd like to do on your site?
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Emma1 i'd like to add some structure to the page. i.e., a separation to write a bio, and tabs for different sections / pages
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tantek welcome Emma1!
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: to start a new section use the <h2> tag just like you have used for your websites title. Then you can write things inside <p> tags (paragraph)
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tantek reads the logs
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Emma1 ok, cool, thanks! ill try that
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GWG I think maybe I'm overthinking the question again
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Emma1 thank you, everyone, for your help! i realize im asking some broad sweeping questions -- appreciate all of the answers and suggested resources!
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KartikPrabhu so it would go <h2>New section</h2> <p> Some stuff in the new section</p>
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tantek Emma1 all great questions!
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Emma1 ha, thanks Tantek!
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KartikPrabhu HTML is very very error-safe so it is great to just learn by experimenting
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Emma1 ok thanks. KartikPrabhu your website is so cool!
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Emma1 this shows all of the code for your website?
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Emma1 https://kartikprabhu.com/atom
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Sebsel No, you have to right-click on the page and go for 'inspect element', or 'show source', depending on your browser
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@jhonnygto1 RT @TheDavidJohnson Spending some time this week getting better acquainted with the #indiewebcamp community. Lots to learn! (twitter.com/_/status/693560743845892098)
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Sebsel Hi, sorry for logging on and off... the server keeps kicking me. Is there a place to troubleshoot about that? I can't find anything.
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Sebsel I want to be on-topic and helpful, but I can't this way.
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tantek Sebsel - maybe search for Freenode IRC help?
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tantek since it's their server we chat on :)
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: that link is the atom feed for RSS readers. To see the code on Firefox your can right-click "View Source"
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Sebsel Good point, thanks :)
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Emma1 what does atom feed for RSS readers mean?
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tantek homebrewwebsite.club++ lol
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tantek Emma1 great question :)
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: Things like Google Reader (now dead) can read that file so that people gets updates about new post :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah that claim was "technically incorrect" Atom feed for Atom readers ;)
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tantek what is Atom?
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Loqi Atom is an XML format for publishing feeds that was developed as a more formally specified alternative to RSS https://indiewebcamp.com/Atom
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Emma1 ha, Tanek, great question!
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tantek what is RSS?
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Loqi RSS typically loosely refers to a set of XML feed file formats of varying degrees of use for syndicating typically time-stamped content from web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/RSS
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tantek Emma1 do those answers from Loqi make sense?
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tantek or is that just more confusing?
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (-2) "Use version of cover photo without twitter names" (view diff)
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Emma1 the atom link is helpful
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aaronpk I think I am going to flip the switch on my new site before I import comments
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KartikPrabhu progressive import ? ;)
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tantek.com edited /Atom (+25) "move logo up a bit, toc down a bit" (view diff)
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@ebot70 Top hashtags for @withknown: #edtech #indieweb #edtechbridge #opensource #edtechtalk http://www.redaelli.org/matteo-blog/projects/ebottwitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/693563123253559296)
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Emma1 one other question! how can i make the text appear in different rows.
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Emma1 i see that if i use <li>
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Emma1 there will be a bullet point
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aaronpk if I have my site archive avatars when I do the comment import i think this might take days
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tantek Emma1, try putting a <br/> where you want a line break
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GWG There is <p> </p> for Paragraphs
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GWG <br /> for line breaks
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: for future reference this list has the HTML tags and what they do: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element
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tantek checks out that list
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KartikPrabhu if that list had example code it would be great
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tantek wow that's a really bad ordering of elements to teach someone
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu it is more of a reference list than learning list
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tantek really needs to just start blogging his chapters of "HTML5: The Good Parts"
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Emma1 thank you!
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KartikPrabhu oh here is a good one with basic tags first with examples! http://www.tutorialspoint.com/html/html_basic_tags.htm
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tantek Emma1: MDN (developer.mozilla.org) is a *great* reference
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tantek but not as good of a tutorial
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KartikPrabhu true
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tantek KartikPrabhu: sigh, even that tutorial starts off wrong. heading tags to start with? really?
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tantek ZOMS it has <center>
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tantek so bad
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KartikPrabhu yeah just saw that :(
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GWG Someone still uses <center>?
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GWG I think we may scare Emma1
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tantek GWG, yes, all over the web
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tantek GWG, I think Emma1 can speak for herself :)
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KartikPrabhu looking for better ones
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GWG I think if we find a really good tutorial on HTML and CSS, we should add it to the wiki
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KartikPrabhu is failing at finding good HTML starter guides
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yeah the ones from search engines are really bad
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Emma1 hahahaha. no you guys don't scare me!
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tantek Emma1: :D
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tantek the best tutorial is just to keep asking questions (as you are), and get answers in chat
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GWG Emma1: I was more speaking about the fact that none of us have looked for this sort of resource in a while and we're discovering that some are dated.
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Emma1 how can i make things be indented or in the center of the page?
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Emma1 hahaa no worries GWG.
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Emma1 for example, right now, all my stuff is left aligned
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miklb Emma1: that would be best served with CSS, as with your font question
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Emma1 and looks weird
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GWG When I first started with HTML, you did all styling together with the content. Now, the two are mostly separated.
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: HTML is used for structuring and CSS is used to style how it looks. I would suggest putting the content you want in HTML first and then moving on to CSS
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kylewm !meme HTML5: The Good Parts | Shut up and take my money!
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Sebsel Good old <font>
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: of course you can buy it since that is published already
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kylewm !meme KartikPrabhu o rly?
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GWG How about HTML5 Now? I hear it comes with a DVD with 2.5 hours of tantek.
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KartikPrabhu the book
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GWG Emma1: I'm sure you could convince tantek to give you an autographed copy.
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Emma1 hehehe
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Emma1 only if he tells me how i can move on to CSS
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Emma1 would i be interested in buying his book
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GWG Well, kidding aside...
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: to start with CSS, 1. make a fodler inside your github called "stylesheet" and inside that an empty file with "main.css" or any other names you want
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GWG I learned CSS from O'Reilly, but this is me.
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GWG Once you have a CSS file...you might want to look at the same file on people's sites to get an idea of how they are structured.
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KartikPrabhu that might not work, since CSS files might be compressed and completely unreadable
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Good point.
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Emma1 ....how do i make a new folder?
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Emma1 see an option to make a new file?
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Emma1 https://github.com/EmmaHodge/emmahodge.github.io
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aaronpk oh dear. google has started crawling the local version of my new site
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KartikPrabhu lol
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aaronpk https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apk.ngrok.io
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kylewm So not
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: click on new file and when it asks for name put in "stylesheets/main.css"
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aaronpk time to add robots.txt
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KartikPrabhu the "/" tells it to make a new folder with that file in it
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aaronpk the funny thing is this is listerally running on my laptop so it's only "online" when my laptop is turned on
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GWG voxpelli: Pushed changes to Indieweb plugin repo. More coming
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Emma1 ok, cool, thank you
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I am surprised Google spider found it
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aaronpk i dropped some links into the logs here, I guess that's how
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KartikPrabhu oh it found it through the IRC log links
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aaronpk and I guess my computer has been on a lot recently :)
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: now in your HTML file inside <head> below the <title> put <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="stylesheets/main.css" />
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KartikPrabhu that tells your HTML to use that file for styling
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tantek is not a fan of premature folderization.
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KartikPrabhu fair enough :)
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Emma1 hmmmm does that mean not to do <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="stylesheets/main.css" />
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tantek Emma1: just start with a main.css file next to your index.html
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Emma1 ?
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tantek and then href="main.css"
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tantek start with everything in the same folder until it gets too much
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Emma1 what is "too much"?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: moving files inside the github UI is not easy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "too much" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ca
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Emma1 LOL re: too much question
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: tantek is advising against making a new folder "stylesheets"
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Emma1 why?
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KartikPrabhu it is premature "organisation"
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KartikPrabhu it does not hurt/ruin anything but is a good general principle
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Emma1 ok so what does that mean "start with a main.css file next to your index.html"
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tantek I think you can click the Create New File button and call the new file "main.css"
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miklb Emma1: same directory your index.html file is in
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: it means making the "main.css" file directly next to the "index.html" instead of putitng it in a new folder
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tantek what is a directory?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "directory" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Cb
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KartikPrabhu wow! it is not possible to delete a folder from the github UI!
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: sorry about that. Since you have already made a folder, maybe let that remain?
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miklb I've always found deleting empty folder with git to be difficult
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Emma1 certainly no need to apologize!
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Emma1 ok
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Emma1 so ill just leave that and make a new file
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tantek didn't realize folders were baggage in github
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: At this stage we can work with the main.css you have already made
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah you need to use git to do that instead of the github UI
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aaronpk there is no way to create a folder in git, you can only create a file in a folder
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KartikPrabhu yes
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tantek so git is bad at garbage collecting folders then
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miklb that's it, time to switch to mercurial ;-)
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Emma1 KartikPrabhu: do you have any suggestions as to how to start working on the main.css page?
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: to see any effects of that you'd first need to put the <link> thing I suggested in the index.html
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KartikPrabhu I'll then tell you how to center things :)
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tantek watches to see how KartikPrabhu teaches CSS.
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KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu step-by-step
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Emma1 ha ok...i cant figure out how to get back to the page where i was editing things
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Emma1 :?
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Emma1 :/
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Emma1 yikes!
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KartikPrabhu open index.html and click on the little "pencil" icon on the right
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Emma1 oh! thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah the github UI takes some getting used to
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KartikPrabhu in fact I am looking at one of my own files to find the icon :P
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Emma1 ok, so i put link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="stylesheets/main.css
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Emma1 below the title!
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Emma1 woooohoooo
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Emma1 making progress!
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Emma1 also -- just as an FYI -- and not to be rude, because i very much appreciate your time, patience and knowledge that youre sharing with me
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Emma1 i have to go in ~20 mins to a dinner!
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KartikPrabhu I have to go in 20 mins to cook so not a problem ;)
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Emma1 ha cool
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KartikPrabhu neat! OK now a simple (but not great) way to center things on your site
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KartikPrabhu edit the main.css file
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KartikPrabhu and put in it the following: body{ text-align: center; }
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Emma1 that it to make everything on the whole page centered?
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KartikPrabhu it will tell everything inside the body of your HTML to align in the center
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Emma1 ok - actually, what i'd like, is just to create a margin on the left hand side
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KartikPrabhu aah then put { body: margin-left: 10%; }
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KartikPrabhu adjust the % value to what looks good to you
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Emma1 ok
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KartikPrabhu oops sorry body{ margin-left: 10%; }
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miklb Emma1: you need a closing quote after main.css https://github.com/EmmaHodge/emmahodge.github.io/blob/master/index.html#L6
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah good catch miklb
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kylewm git doesn't track folders at all iirc
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yeah
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KartikPrabhu miklb++ for good fresh eyes on the code
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Emma1 oh, thanks
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Loqi miklb has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu is getting code tunnel vision switching between HTML, CSS and Latex
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Emma1 how can you guys all see my page?!
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KartikPrabhu it is a public repo. We can not edit it but we can see it
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Emma1 can i see your pages?
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KartikPrabhu github has default public-visible code. you can get a paid account for private ones
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Emma1 on github?
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Emma1 oh i dont mind! its proven helpful :) was just curious how you got to know where it was
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: my website code is not on github but I have other projects
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: I found it through the github link on your website ;)
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Emma1 oh hahaha
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KartikPrabhu here is my github with stuff: https://github.com/kartikprabhu
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Emma1 ok so i did the 10% thing but i dont think its working
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Emma1 cool! thank you!
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@kid_OYO kids are already online excited & building #indieweb lessons for #OYOwebsite app http://sbu2016.kidoyo.com real tools for real world @oyoclass (twitter.com/_/status/693576783791329280)
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: the css line should be body{ margin-left: 10%; }
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KartikPrabhu the body is outside the braces... I might have mistyped earlier
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: body does not have ":" after it
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Emma1 ok! changed that
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KartikPrabhu and there you go. there should be a margin on your site when you refresh the page
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Emma1 hmmm it doesnt seem to be working
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Emma1 maybe i need to make the % larger
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KartikPrabhu on my browser it does have a margin on the left compared to the previous one
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Emma1 really?
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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miklb Emma1: same here. Refresh the page a few times. Broswer caching can be the bane of debugging/live coding.
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KartikPrabhu earlier it was flush on the left with the window,
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tantek Emma1++ nice improvements on http://emmahodge.org/ !
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Loqi Emma1 has 1 karma
benwerd joined the channel
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tantek I see a margin too
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: did you refresh/reload your site in the browser
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Emma1 mine is still not showing it...but i trust all of you trustworthy people that it's working.
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Emma1 and will keep refreshing
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@thirdhandinfo RT @zeldman Don’t be an architecture astronaut. #indieweb http://indiewebcamp.com/architecture_astronomy (twitter.com/_/status/693578508086419456)
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: are you on Firefox?
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Emma1 no
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Emma1 chrome
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KartikPrabhu go to your page and hit Cntrl+F5 or Command+F5 on Mac
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Emma1 ah! that worked!
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Emma1 woa!
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KartikPrabhu there you go! :)
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Emma1 now there is a serious margin
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Emma1 COOL :)
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Emma1 THANK YOU!
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KartikPrabhu yeah you made it 30% :)
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Emma1 hahah yeah
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Emma1 i got a bit over eager when it didnt seem to be moving!
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KartikPrabhu to be complete the %-value is "the margin will be that % of the total width"
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Emma1 oh, i see
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tantek Emma1: that's a good technique
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Emma1 cool, that is very helpful indeed
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tantek when it seems like something is not working, exaggerate it to see if it is having any effect at all
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tantek I still do that with all kinds of code and it's useful for finding weird bugs
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KartikPrabhu yeah I do that all the time
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Emma1 i'm a natural coder ;) ;)
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aaronpk yeah I definitely do that in PHP too, with things like die("WHAT IS GOING ON")
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Emma1 KartikPrabhu thank you so much for you guidance and help! and for explaining everything step by step
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Emma1 that was very kind of you!
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KartikPrabhu np!
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KartikPrabhu once you see how HTML/CSS works you can start experimenting on your own
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Emma1 yeah...i feel like i still need some more context / background to even know what my questions are or how to experiment
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aaronpk lol at anomalily's first reaction to seeing my new site. "It looks the same as before"
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that is a good thing no?
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aaronpk I guess that's a good thing?
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KartikPrabhu Emma1: keep at it and keep asking questions
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Emma1 THANK YOU :)
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Emma1 will do!
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Emma1 goodbye everyone! have a great saturday evening
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KartikPrabhu have fun!
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@MicropubInfo Micropub and the quiet IndieWebCamp revolution: Micropub and the quiet IndieWebCamp revolution. There's new ac... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.manton.org/2016/01/micropub-and-the-quiet-indiewebcamp-revolution.html&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNGAK27Uc_mcAH-FjJeeGSnDZHauxg&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/693581321302441985)
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@withknown #opensource Known publishers: version 0.9 is just around the corner. So many new features and fixes. We're excited! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/693583094062796800)