#indiewebcamp 2016-02-09

2016-02-09 UTC
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unicyclic.com mal edited /public_timeline (+76) "/* public indieweb notes stream */" (view diff)
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tantek also re: event month names vs. numbers, what about headings for the month names / numbers?
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tantek so the individual events just have day?
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tantek or day-day ?
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tantek shall I try it
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tantek ?
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aaronpk well regardless of the name, I need a thing that parses a page and gives me a sane version of it, while also archiving the page as it exists at that time
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aaronpk basically embed.ly + archive.org
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aaronpk specifically http://embed.ly/extract
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Schnitz tantek yes it might add accessibility at first glance, checked it now
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aaronpk but less tailored specifically to blog posts/articles
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KevinMarks are you going to archive images etc too?
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aaronpk i am already archiving images
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aaronpk accumulating quite the collection too, thanks to bridgy home page mentions for tantek
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snarfed1 10k and counting :P
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[miklb] aaronpk: not sure if this is germane, but have you seen Amber? http://amberlink.org
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aaronpk oh yeah, looked at that a little bit ago
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aaronpk for now I'm mostly just interested in archiving the parsed version, not necessarily full on archive.org style
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bear i've got a couple incomplete implementations of that in my closet - mf2, html but not css or images
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aaronpk [miklb]: while you're here, what's up with the 2-3 requests per second to webmention.io with perPage=9999?
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bear I stopped because getting even the full html from a sight with heavy js usage can be tough - so much is built now in the browser with tools like react and the like
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bear s/sight/site/
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Loqi bear meant to say: I stopped because getting even the full html from a site with heavy js usage can be tough - so much is built now in the browser with tools like react and the like
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[miklb] aaronpk: not sure. Can you give me more details? I use the webmention.io plugin for my jekyll site
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aaronpk a ruby script is making a whole bunch of requests, but it's been going for hours
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aaronpk getting api/mentions?target[]= with a bunch of different URLs
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[miklb] let me look at my local install, but Iā€™m not aware of anything running. I build the site in Travis and deploy the compiled HTML.
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aaronpk does your deploy crawl webmention.io looking for mentions of each page or something?
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KevinMarks polite note, ignores bug https://github.com/milligram/milligram/issues/57 :(
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gRegorLove tantek: Did you see my comments earlier about month and day? We can display the full month name via template easily, only entering the yyyy-mm-dd once.
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gRegorLove Could also display days only if you wanted to group by month, though the group-by-month would be a manual process.
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aaronpk that almost looks like one of those fake wordpress comments
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aaronpk "I really enjoyed reading this post. Pleaes continue writing more on your blog. I have subscribed"
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Schnitz on sc we get fake account owners actually writing nice but enigmated comments, just so you wonder and follow the account back and there is an ad or so... really weird, since deleting that comment then seems a bit harsh in a way, since it most likely written by a person and *does* have something to do with you...
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gRegorLove sc?
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kylewm.com edited /projects (+213) "/* Red Wind */ note development hiatus" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Red_Wind (+131) "note development hiatus" (view diff)
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Schnitz sorry, soundcloud
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Vendan question, https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-as-note/note.json#L32 is showing & for ampersand, but html fragment serialization says it should be encoded as &
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KevinMarks that would make more sense
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KevinMarks and it is & in the html source
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Vendan yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me to have something that's labeled as html, but isn't actually valid html
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KevinMarks and the python parser does keep the & http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2Fmicroformats%2Ftests%2Fmaster%2Ftests%2Fmicroformats-v2%2Fh-as-note%2Fnote.html&html=&pretty=on
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KevinMarks so yes, fix the result
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aaronpk reviewing my communication protocol page
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aaronpk "The best way to respond to something I've written is to post on your own site." with a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/Sessions#Own_Your_Comments
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aaronpk in the session description: "One way to handle comments is through the pingback or trackback protocols, both of which are widely implemented in many major blogging platforms. We can discuss the merits and drawbacks of each, and other possible solutions. A workshop session could involve implementing trackbacks/pingbacks on your own site, or implementing a new mechanism for using them."
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aaronpk we've come a long way since then :)
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 72 karma
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aaronpk now rewriting my "IRC" section to include Slack
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Vendan ugh, slack
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aaronpk it's just pretty IRC
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aaronpk i'm just glad it is now easier for more people to use the communication style IRC provides
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tantek.com edited /notification (+692) "/* Facebook */ Facebook feed files in RSS, and undocumented, in JSON" (view diff)
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Vendan it's siloized pretty irc
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aaronpk so is IRC tho
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Vendan I can spin up my own complete IRCd and have my own irc network running in about 10 minutes. I'll admit that IRC is slightly siloized, but nowhere near the level of slack
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aaronpk the only thing that IRC has over Slack is that the protocol is (somewhat) standardized, so you can use an off-the-shelf client with your own IRC server
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aaronpk but freenode can't talk to oftc
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aaronpk and conversely, you can join Slack rooms with clients other than the official Slack client
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Vendan you can join any irc channel with any client, so that's not a plus for slack
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desttinghim Has someone tried a non-siloized approach to chat?
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aaronpk not really
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Vendan irc is just push for text messages, it's up to you if you want to store them or whatever
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tantek I thought matrrix was working on that
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aaronpk i think Matrix is the closest
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aaronpk they're at least trying not to be a monoculture
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Schnitz !tell snarfed got twitter to work, all good
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Events (+129) "try month headings" (view diff)
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desttinghim I have a personal domain and I have linked to my social media networks
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aaronpk hmm now the first event looks like February 2 through 10
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tantek lol true
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aaronpk it might work like that to remove the month number. would also probably make the events that actually do span multiple days clearer
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desttinghim Now I'm trying to figure out how to make or use a POSSE site
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aaronpk 05-07...08 is almost incomprehensible
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tantek.com edited /Events (-76) "remove a DRY violation where it wasn't likely to be useful anyway" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - I'm wondering if we can do that with a little template help, e.g. from gRegorLove
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aaronpk templates++
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Loqi templates has 3 karma
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tantek probably need a one day template and a two day template
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tantek desttinghim: great! are you able to sign-in to the wiki? https://indiewebcamp.com/
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KartikPrabhu1 desttinghim: what do you mean by "POSSE site" ?
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desttinghim Something like known
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desttinghim Unfortunately I don'r have much experience with web programming
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desttinghim tantek: I'm logged in now, I think.
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@benwerd I'm so proud of the @withknown open source community. Publish in a group, or as your own #indieweb site: https://github.com/Idno/known (twitter.com/_/status/696893971990077441)
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Loqi [indieweb] "I'm so proud of the @withknown open source community. Publish in a group, or as your own #indieweb site: https://github.com/Idno/known" by Ben WerdmĆ¼ller http://werd.io/2016/im-so-proud-of-the-withknown-open-source-community-publish
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aaronpk i just realized i accidentally enabled something i've been wanting to do for years
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aaronpk bookmarks with blockquote and screenshot collected into a tag
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Loqi [indieweb] "Mozilla Project: 2016-02-08" by Jesper Kristensen http://blog.mozilla.org/meeting-notes/archives/2331
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Vendan question, https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-as-note/note.json#L41 shows "value" keys for children, but the parsing spec makes no mention of it
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Vendan is it supposed to be there, and if so, how is it supposed to be derived?
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aaronpk might need to ask in #microformats if it's a parser level question
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Vendan ahh, right, I had forgot about that channel
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Loqi [indieweb] "Mozilla Project: 2016-02-08" by Jesper Kristensen https://blog.mozilla.org/meeting-notes/archives/2331
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aaronpk woohoo restored a bunch of pages i had broken in my site move
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aaronpk it's a little sad checking things off my list because it's still so long no matter how much i do
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[shaners] !tell mblaney kylewm I think i fixed my tag/category problem in my Atom feeds. Thanks for helping me notice this. https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/commit/bb80c1b8cb32e8355c0f990185d116575d5312eb
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm :+1:
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mblaney shaners looks good now :-)
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Loqi mblaney: [shaners] left you a message 7 hours, 6 minutes ago: thanks! I think you uncovered a bug of mine. :smile: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454967641024
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Loqi mblaney: [shaners] left you a message 10 minutes ago: kylewm I think i fixed my tag/category problem in my Atom feeds. Thanks for helping me notice this. https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/commit/bb80c1b8cb32e8355c0f990185d116575d5312eb http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454992635306
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aaronpk yesssss sleep import is restored https://aaronparecki.com/sleep
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@Evontech #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A #CMS Comparison Ć°ÅøŒĀ http://evontech.com/easyblog/entry/joomla-vs-wordpress-a-comparison.html #webdev #webdesign #indieweb #indiedev https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/696930058208985089/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/696930058208985089)
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aaronpk trying out hooking up IFTTT to make a micropub request to my website
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@gamentio2 RT @Evontech #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A #CMS Comparison Ć°ÅøŒĀ http://evontech.com/easyblog/entry/joomla-vs-wordpress-a-comparison.html #webdev #webdesign #indieweb #indiedev https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/696930058208985089/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/696930607595724805)
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@twok3design RT Ć¢ā€“Āŗ #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A #CMS Comparison Ć°ÅøŒĀ http://evontech.com/easyblog/entry/joomla-vs-wordpress-a-comparison.html #webdev #webdesign #indieweb #indiedev ā€¦ https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/696930058208985089 (twitter.com/_/status/696931888976564226)
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@harish24u RT @Evontech #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A #CMS Comparison Ć°ÅøŒĀ http://evontech.com/easyblog/entry/joomla-vs-wordpress-a-comparison.html #webdev #webdesign #indieweb #indiedev https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/696930058208985089/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/696932314329251843)
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@JeanFrenchh RT @Evontech #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A #CMS Comparison Ć°ÅøŒĀ http://evontech.com/easyblog/entry/joomla-vs-wordpress-a-comparison.html #webdev #webdesign #indieweb #indiedev https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/696930058208985089/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/696933680263139329)
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[shaners] What is joomla?
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Loqi Joomla is a content management system https://indiewebcamp.com/joomla
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Jeena cool first guy from my talk last week who took the first step into indieweb https://sjolind.se/
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KartikPrabhu Jeena++ that is awesome
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Loqi Jeena has 31 karma
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Loqi [indieweb] "ich bin heute 15,4ƂĀ kilometer gegangen, in ca. 3:30 stunden. / (gemacht mit compass und GPS-logger) / und atlas: - wirres.net" by Daniel Nix http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9267/1/0/
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Loqi [mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ reposted http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454972296705 https://webmention.io/notification/NxH26xjMTCs5KA0avZqDcA
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@nxD4n what a PITA to follow #webmention re-replies. Nested comments for everyone ;-) #indieweb @dipix @aaronpk @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/696988653189525504)
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KartikPrabhu sorry nested comments -1 IMO
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KartikPrabhu wow that tweet is taking forever to load! thanks Twitter!
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Loqi [mention] Daniel Nix wrote a post that linked to a photo: "2016/Nuremberg" https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg https://webmention.io/notification/lbZCXeLN89qPAt46COfPAg
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KartikPrabhu lets try again
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List (+340) "/* Participants */ attending!" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "chriswarbo comments on "GNU Social, a FLOSS alternative to Twitter"" by chriswarbo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11064461
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@jkphl @BarnabyWalters Excited to have you on board ā€” yay! \o/ :) #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/697012512198365184)
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Schnitz !tell snarfed there seems to be an issue with responses getting back to my tumblr. I commented on both twitter and FB to a post that I possied thru bridgy, and after 12 hours, nothing showed up. I could manually crawl for twitter https://brid.gy/twitter/belp_audio# then the commentary shows up via disqus on my tumblr post, but I haven't found a way to manually crawl FB and the FB responses...
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Schnitz ...never got back and before it was not necessary to manually crawl, it just worked...
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@RikMende RT @cleverdevil Excited to see that @WithKnown finally features retroactive POSSE! #IndieWeb (https://cleverdevil.io/2016/excited-to-see-that-withknown-finally-features-retroactive-posse-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/697040898237067264)
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harryreeder.co.uk created /events/2016-02-09-homebrew-website-club (+2088) "HWCedi 16/02/09" (view diff)
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tbrb Aiming for a stable 'release' of my command line micropub client tonight, or at least soon \o/
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tbrb or at least, feature complete for what I envision version 1 to be
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cweiske tbrb, what vocabulary do you support?
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tbrb Just a pretty minimal barebones post right now, my first aim was short posts before moving on to others
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tbrb my own site accepts "slug", "name", "content" & "in-reply-to" so I'm slowly progressing both sides at once
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jonnybarnes So this is awesome: https://gkoberger.github.io/stacksort/
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aaronpk agreed. I don't want *nested* comments, but showing the whole comment thread on a post would be nice
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aaronpk also he and I had a somewhat long back and forth webmention discussion, not syndicated to twitter
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aaronpk and it was definitely kind of hard to follow the whole thread at times
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jonnybarnes nginx is getting dynamic modules!
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aaronpk ooo
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aaronpk that will make things easier
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jonnybarnes a prrof-of-concept is in the latest release, v1.9.11
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aaronpk i *just* installed 1.9.10
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jonnybarnes :D
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jonnybarnes unlucky
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jonnybarnes also, cheers for updateing the indieauth client code so quickly last night
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petermolnar I'm not really welcoming this change
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petermolnar one more attack vector / point of potential failure
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singpolyma petermolnar++
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Loqi petermolnar has 15 karma
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petermolnar I also hope no mod_php is popping up...
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sknebel it probably makes life a lot easier for package maintainers for distros
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sknebel + if you are on tiny machines (haven't checked how much CPU/RAM you need to rebuild nginx
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sknebel (and in the beginning, stuff like that the order in which you compile module matters is annoying)
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tantek re: webmention / comment threads - pretty sure ben_thatmustbeme solved that problem ;)
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Schnitz rehi
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Schnitz !tell snarfed not sure whether you've done anything but all comments were just now automatically routed back, so all good, thank you :-)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Schnitz me thinks maybe bridgy just crawls for comments once a day or so...
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petermolnar sknebel I'm really, heavily against the trend which helps avoiding learning anything, including compiling a thing that is probably one of the easiest to compile of all
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petermolnar nginx code is clean, clear, and really easy to compile, even with extra module
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sknebel petermolnar: understandable, and nginx is probably stable enough that missing distro-updates is survivable
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petermolnar with the dynamic modules we're about to see precompiled proprietary modules, which makes me sad
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sknebel I'd bet a big push comes from their commercial variant
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petermolnar I agree
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sknebel can't have commercial software you've paid for you still have to compile yourself!!111
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sknebel or something like that
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petermolnar I think it's the reverse, you can't compile our special stuff for yourself, because than you'd have the source
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singpolyma sknebel, petermolnar: I have several commercial products that came as source, but I think that's generally how companies think, yeah
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aaronpk oh like Passenger huh
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Loqi [mention] Daniel Nix wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub https://webmention.io/notification/E9iUdDxbnu-K1lxts89DrQ
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kylewm aaronpk: curious what your experience with IFTTT to micropub is. it's been kinda flaky for me
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aaronpk oh? i haven't triggered it yet. i only hooked up my withings scale to post through it
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aaronpk forgot to step on my scale this morning to test it
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kylewm it's hard to tell if it's their fault or mine, there is not much diagnostic information
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terminalpixel_ kylewm: You can see some form of logs if you look at your recipe on the site.
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terminalpixel_ I use it for pulling reddit likes and stuff into my site and I've not had any issue, not quite proper micropub though
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aaronpk if this works well i'll write up a little tutorial
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aaronpk it does require that your micropub endpoint accept the access token in the post body instead of the http header, since IFTTT can't set http headers
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terminalpixel_ Yeah I do it in basically the same way but send more simplified data than a full micropub document to specific endpoints with an access token.
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aaronpk the nice this is a "full micropub document" is actually pretty small
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aaronpk "h=entry&bookmark-of={{url}}&access_token=xxxxx" would do it
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terminalpixel_ Hmm yeah, not fully got my head around micropub quite yet :P
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aaronpk that's all it takes to create a bookmark :)
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kylewm terminalpixel_: the "logs" look like: An error with Maker prevented your Recipe from working.
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terminalpixel_ Ha they may not be of any use but at least they exist
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kylewm github survey: " Describe your experience with Pull Requests in three words: "
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kylewm thesis antithesis synthesis?
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tommorris disappointment on stilts
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tommorris pedantry as process
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kylewm tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 92 karma
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kylewm I said "exercise in humility"
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[shaners] ā€œWhateverā€™s clever. Forever."
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bear W T F
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[kevinmarks] Passive aggressive patches
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snarfed Schnitz: re your bridgy twitter delay, bridgy slows down polling your account if it hasn't successfully sent you a webmention in a while
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Loqi snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 15 hours, 28 minutes ago: got twitter to work, all good http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454984513877
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Loqi snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 5 hours, 21 minutes ago: there seems to be an issue with responses getting back to my tumblr. I commented on both twitter and FB to a post that I possied thru bridgy, and after 12 hours, nothing showed up. I could manually crawl for twitter https://brid.gy/twitter/belp_audio# then the commentary shows up via disqus on my tumblr post, but I haven't found a way to manually crawl FB and the FB responses... http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455020931298
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Loqi snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 1 hour, 42 minutes ago: not sure whether you've done anything but all comments were just now automatically routed back, so all good, thank you :-) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455034088075
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snarfed down to as little as once a day if it's been a month since your last (successful) wm
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snarfed https://brid.gy/about#realtime
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Schnitz snarfed ah, smart, thought so
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[kevinmarks] The threading/nesting model assumes a single shared conversation space, which isn't true of the web, or twitter really
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Schnitz snarfed does the polling intervals go up again automatically now that I use it again?
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tantek KevinMarks: as with many things, depends on the presentation
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snarfed Schnitz: yes. every 20m if it's sent you a wm in the last week
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tantek "single shared conversation space" can be made true, if you support receiving salmentions and show all comments on your original post, like ben_thatmustbeme does
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Schnitz awesome ... thats pretty neat BTW
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[kevinmarks] Right, but the respondents may have only seen a subset of the comments when they are standalone posts, so presenting as deeply nested replies can be misleading
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tantek "deeply nested replies" are generally seen as an archaic leftover from Slashdot/Reddit style bad design
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tantek sites seems to have coalesced on 1 or 2 deep max
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aaronpk i will say i actually quite like facebook's one level deep reply nesting
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tantek aaronpk: which is thus 2 levels of comments on an original post
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tantek that's what I meant by "2 deep max"
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tantek whereas twitter is 1 deep
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, it lets side conversations go on without getting too far fromt he original
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aaronpk yeah. I think I will attempt to do that once I support showing replies to replies on original posts
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tantek (no comments = 0 deep)
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aaronpk I *think* i have all the data/structure I need in order to do that now, so it is likely just a presentation problem for me
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aaronpk (I wasn't storing the comments in a way that really supported that way of querying before)
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking i may be actually redoing huge chunks of my site come IWC
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aaronpk hehe
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[shaners] My site is 0 comment levels deep.
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[shaners] re: GitHub pull requests is three words: software built together.
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aaronpk deliberately?
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snarfed heh
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snarfed "software built together." "deliberately?" "well, sometimes."
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aaronpk ha that was supposed to be in reference to [shaners]' comment levels
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snarfed i know. just couldn't resist :P
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[shaners] aaronpk: Yep. Iā€™ll implement webmention in/out soonish. But I prefer to own every pixel on my site.
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aaronpk #ownyourpixels
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snarfed demurs
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[kevinmarks] I do end up with disjointed comments on my site via Twitter, though a lot of that is bridgy interpreting my linkslapping as a posse
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[kevinmarks] I often link to my longer pieces from the middle of another conversation on twitter
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: ugh. bridgy's behavior seems wrong even after the epic saga of https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51 ? sorry about that. feel free to add specific examples if you want.
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snarfed fwiw, bridgy does intentionally still backfeed replies to "mention" posts (like your linkslaps, i'm guessing) as well as POSSE posts. i'm open to debate on that.
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GWG Greetings all.
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[shaners] I just POSSE my first ā€œtweet stormā€Ā aka toots replying to myself so they thread together on Twitter with the correct in-reply-tos
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Schnitz aloha
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/697124914373984256
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@veganstraightedge .@shopify errors on Partner signup: http://assets.veganstraightedge.com/notes/2016/02/09/shopify-partner-signup-errors.png (twitter.com/_/status/697124914373984256)
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snarfed heh actually [kevinmarks] you originally requested backfeeding replies to mentions :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136905893
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KevinMarks right, I don't think brid.gy is necessarily doing it wrong now, more that there is context in the thread of replies above my linkslap
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snarfed KevinMarks: ahhhh sure, understood
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KevinMarks eg this was backfed https://twitter.com/emilybell/status/686200683457019905
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@emilybell @kevinmarks but that is unsustainable for a commercial organisation ... as they are finding (twitter.com/_/status/686200683457019905)
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KevinMarks where I ref it in another context
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GWG snarfed, do you use fragmentions?
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snarfed GWG: nope
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andrijevik.net edited /2016/DĆ¼sseldorf/Guest_List (-198) "/* Official Guest List */" (view diff)
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GWG Trying to close an open issue
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/20
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gRegorLove Sounds like setting yourself up for more work if you're going to vet indieweb plugins and decide which ones get listed in "The" Indieweb Plugin
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[kevinmarks] adding the fragmention script to WP seems like a good thing
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GWG That is why the issue is so old.
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GWG I have no opinion
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tantek oh hey look at that - is this happening now? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-09-homebrew-website-club
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tantek tbrb?
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tantek Kongaloosh?
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tantek please take and post a photo to the event page!
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tbrb tantek: it is indeed!
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Kongaloosh_ oh hey
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Kongaloosh_ huh
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tbrb Myself, Kongaloosh_ and Jammy_Stuff (who isn't in here actually)
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+51) "add HWC Edi today!" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh Jammy is new
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tantek !tell adactio is there a HWC Brighton 2016-02-10? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Jammy_Stuff HI NEW FRIENDS
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tantek Welcome Jammy_Stuff!
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Jammy_Stuff I've been told I should come and hang out with the cool kids
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Kongaloosh Jammy_Stuff++
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Loqi Jammy_Stuff has 1 karma
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tantek !tell AngeloGladding is there a HWC Los Angeles 2016-02-10? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar I've done with my mini-redesign
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petermolnar yay
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[shaners] petermolnar: whatā€™s your URL again?
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[shaners] what is micropub?
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
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[shaners] "Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients. Web apps and native apps (e.g. iPhone, Android) can use Micropub to post short notes, photos, events or other posts to your own site."
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[shaners] Is the part about "on one's own domainā€Ā and "to your own siteā€Ā really necessary? Micropub can be used to post to sites other than my own, right?
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aaronpk that is true, but that is the primary goal
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petermolnar [shaners] https://petermolnar.eu
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aaronpk i actually use micropub to post to twitter now ;)
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gRegorLove tantek, aaronpk: For /events do you want a template that shows the day(s)-only in a box, similar to /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox, or just in bold text "##ā€“##"?
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tantek gRegorLove: I would start with a VERY simple linear flow text template that looks pretty much like they do now
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tantek no need to change the presentation and plumbing at the same time
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aaronpk I still am completely against the "mm-dd" display
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tantek aaronpk: ok I'll revert it
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aaronpk "yyyy-mm-dd" is fine until we come up with a better design
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Me too. I meant days-only for ##-##
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petermolnar aaronpk I've been preparing to use micropub once in the future; for that, I first need to automate all the logic I apply manually on a post right now ( eg. has attached image, image has exif, exif has certain values => photo ); is this only an issue for me?
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aaronpk petermolnar: not sure what you mean?
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gRegorLove "March" for the heading, "14ā€“15 IndieWebCamp MIT..." for the first line
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gRegorLove That's what I was thinking if I templatized
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petermolnar I post various things: photos (images I take), things (short notes, bookmarks, etc), long things ("articles"); some of them needs some magic, depending on their type, which I used to to by hand ( select Format, select Category, apply Tags, etc. )
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petermolnar these things I'm trying to automate as much as possible, but it's a long way
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aaronpk ah. yeah I went through that process with my new site. mostly following /post-type-discovery on my posts
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@veganstraightedge I would love to see micropub support in @marsedit. Ć¢ĀĀ¤ĆÆĀøĀ http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (twitter.com/_/status/697155890672226305)
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tantek gRegorLove: can you do a simple template with no fancy design anything?
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tantek just something that generates the h-event markup that we currently have to copy/paste?
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petermolnar yes, I'm applying the rules of post-type-discovery, but adding some extra: for example, I store webmention reply as an extra field and checking if that url contains anything supported by bridgy, if yes, post to bridgy
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petermolnar all the small things are adding up, but I'm making a progress
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petermolnar at least I'll have something to talk about if there will be an IWC Brighton this year
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tantek petermolnar: have you asked adactio about IWC Brighton?
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petermolnar I've asked adactio about it, no plans yet
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tantek perhaps suggest July or August when it's nice in Brighton :)
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petermolnar nice and expensive :D
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petermolnar by the way, the UK has beautiful springs and autumns, unlike the summers
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tantek petermolnar: Brighton tends to get cold in the autumn though
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petermolnar I've tried reaching out to the Cambridge University ( the UK one ), so far, no response at all; also tried reaching out to whoever I've found on the irc-people page being in the UK to organize one in Cambridge; apart from one response - sorry, too far - nothing :(
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tantek.com edited /Events (-370) "revert back to YYYY-MM-DD because MM-DD was more confusing/ambiguous, also fix next HWC locations to currently known" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: would you consider updating the homepage IndieWebCamp photo to be the nice big happy one from IWC SF? https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp
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tantek 2014 is so two years ago ;)
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Vendan woo, powering my desktop down to install new gpu
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aaronpk sure! wow yeah i guess that was a while ago now
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (-2) "/* May */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-9) "/* IndieWebCamp */ update to a more recent photo" (view diff)
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[shaners] I have to integrate with a SOAP API for a client job. GOODBYE FOREVER, indieweb friends!
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gRegorLove Simplified version: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Latest_concepts Not sure I care for that for one-day events.
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gRegorLove It was nice knowing you, shaners. :)
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gRegorLove I think I suggest sticking with yyyy-mm-dd for now.
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aaronpk [shaners]: oh noooo
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petermolnar [shaners] I feel your pain. (/me once had to interface C with C#)
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tantek what is SOAP?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/SOAP
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tantek.com edited /SOAP (+45) "See Also: architecture astronomy" (view diff)
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singpolyma as long as you have a library and they have a WSDL file, soap is actually fine
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tantek singpolyma, do you implement anything with SOAP on your own site?
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singpolyma tantek: on my site? No. I do for work from time to time
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Vendan I've got some soap stuff, it was a nightmare to do
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Vendan but that was largely poor library support
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singpolyma usually SOAP is just like new SOAP('http://client.tld/api.wsdl')->getStuff() or similar
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tantek what is WSDL?
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Loqi For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indiewebcamp.com/WSDL
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tantek whoa big pic aaronpk ! mind if I make it 50% and float it?
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[shaners] Iā€™m sorry I introduced this into the channel today. I didnā€™t mean to inflict this onto anyone. Shouldā€™ve added a #triggerwarning to the message.
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tantek shaners, yeah, usually that goes into #indiechat ;)
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aaronpk It looked too small when it was small
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+78) "/* IndieWebCamp */ float & 50% image" (view diff)
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aaronpk and at 50% the text wraps weirdly
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[shaners] tantek: good call.
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tantek so I made it 60%
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gRegorLove What's the reasoning for not using "February 9, 2016" for the display date again? Just realized these iterations on /events are already coming close to that.
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tantek gRegorLove: because ISO8601 > RFC822 :P
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tantek !standards
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/
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gRegorLove So why'd we go down this road of moving away from ISO8601?
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tantek not as much that as noticing that we had a "2016" heading so could imply from context...
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tantek etc.
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tantek what is ISO8601?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ISO8601" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10D9
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[shaners] o_O that really surprises me
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tantek ISO8601 is an international standard for dates and times roughly in the form YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS.
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loqi.me created /ISO8601 (+124) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455051720412 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek !iso8601
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gRegorLove tantek: So what do you think of https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Latest_concepts ? I don't think I care for it for one-day events.
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tantek I think it will look odd for anything *after* the first event in a month heading
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tantek that's the problem with that "use heading as label" approach
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tantek also seems odd to duplicate it with the When: line
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gRegorLove Yeah, the day number seems too far detached from the month it occurs in
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tantek if you want a When line it should just have the time
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gRegorLove I can eliminate that; that's leftover from when I was making a separate box for the date.
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tantek gRegorLove: anyway, I'd say for now, let's just go with a simple template that replicates the existing markup on /events
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gRegorLove s/eliminate/eliminate or simplify/
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Loqi gRegorLove meant to say: I can eliminate or simplify that; that's leftover from when I was making a separate box for the date.
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tantek that way we can make it at least easier to *author* events there
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tantek while we *separately* discuss / evolve design
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tantek no need to tie those two together (authoring and visual design)
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gRegorLove The latest /events markup, or the way it was a couple days ago? :)
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tantek latest is basically what it's been for a year plus
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tantek since I reverted the hiding of year
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tantek the one or two day event templates to copy/paste are also in the HTML comments of /Events
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tantek meanwhile, experiments continue...
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tantek.com edited /Events (+10) "try date/time on different lines to see if that helps readability" (view diff)
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tantek take a look gRegorLove ^^^
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tantek what do you think?
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gRegorLove Hm. Don't have strong feelings about it either way. I might prefer: [date]: [title] with [time] on the following line.
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gRegorLove Easy to change in the template though. I'm updating /Template:one-day-event for simple events now.
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tantek yeah that would require template magic
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gRegorLove Already using template magic :)
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tantek and let's see if you can figure out how to do that with multiple time elements, value class pattern etc. ;)
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gRegorLove Most of the inputs to /Template:one-day-event are set up, just changing how they're displayed currently.
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gRegorLove tantek: How's this look? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#One-day-event_with_no_UTC_offset
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gRegorLove Oops, forgot to bold the time.
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tantek just noticed that the lightbox display of tweet permalinks has a new UI feature! "previous" < > "next" arrows that go to the arrow that go to the next / previous (yes, flipped) tweets!
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tantek about time!
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snarfed ahh, webmention attempts to http://example.dev/ are always entertaining
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snarfed almost as entertaining as attempts to eg Photos.app
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tantek ah, no left/right arrow keypress support for next/prev nav
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aaronpk I had to disable my left/right arrow shortcuts
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gRegorLove Yeah, I noticed Twitter finally caught up to your UI, tantek :) Yours is better though.
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aaronpk it was conflicting with peoples' expected browser behavior
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tantek aaronpk: how? there is no horizontal scroll in their layout
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aaronpk might work okay on twitter
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tantek nothing to conflict with
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aaronpk i used to have a read-only text input that would show the short URL for my posts, so if you put your cursor in that and tried to move around to select the text you'd end up navigating away
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Loqi [mention] Matthias Welling wrote a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE https://webmention.io/notification/Y80cbtwkQq5wjqY7FyHzXg
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tantek aaronpk - sounds like a default event handling vs bubbling bug
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tantek you could have fixed that so it worked when you selected
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aaronpk i actually changed it to be alt+left and alt+right which I liked better
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tantek aaronpk: re: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454992175003 similar feels: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Falcon&action=history note the growing character count over time.
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aaronpk heh
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tantek the "Working On" and "Itches" lists grow faster than I can implement (and delete) from them
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tantek gRegorLove: what do you think of the event details on this Events Calendar? (not that it's a great/good example, just a possible source of ideas) https://www.oasis-open.org/events/
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tantek had two people make similar comments, each on a different POSSE copy of my aƧai bowl post.
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tantek thus a real world illustration of the point I think KevinMarks was making earlier about no one single comment context place
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loqi.me created /Lorem_ipsum (+456) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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GWG I missed petermolnar? Darn, I wanted to talk to him
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GWG I am suffering from the anarchist dilemma.
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GWG There is too much choice.
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tantek GWG, hence the strategy of putting the choices in a list, then roughly sorting, or just picking which one seems the most important to you today
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GWG It isn't my dilemma per se.
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GWG It is the WordPress dilemma
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tantek what is the WordPress dilemma?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress dilemma" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DC
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GWG You identified it. New individuals have trouble joining in with WordPress because it is a collection of optional pieces.
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tantek previously that was the Drupal dilemma
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tantek making Drupal useful depended on knowing which *set* of extensions to install
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GWG Making WordPress Indieweb capable requires the same.
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tantek you can simplify that by making the one IndieWeb plugin useful right away
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GWG I am working on that now. That is why I am driving myself crazy.
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tantek stick with the minimal additional scope we previously discussed
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tantek rel=me + h-card. good enough for IndieAuth logins, and replacing use of Gravatar with your own site!
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GWG I am sticking with that scope.
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GWG I just keep thinking about how to make it so it will be easy.
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GWG There are a lot of profile plugins out there. None that do this though.
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GWG Visual appeal is hard.
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tantek GWG, start with *only* the list of "other profiles" that are currently supported by /IndieAuth
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tantek not a list of "any random social silo"
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GWG I designed it to have that, and an optional box for anything random.
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tantek then for the h-card, keep it REALLY simple, like name, photo, city/state/country, bio/note, and maybe t-shirt size just for fun
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GWG I am muddling through the issues, and I am doing the one thing no other person is committed to...
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GWG Using it myself
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tantek selfdogfood++
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Loqi selfdogfood has 4 karma
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GWG So it has to do what I want. Minimalism is not the best option.
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GWG But flashy isn't either
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GWG When I wrote Syndication Links, I included icon fonts for the silo icons.
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tantek minimalism is a good default
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tantek especially for IndieAuth etc.
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tantek if you want it to do more, you can add extra options for that later
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GWG People are used to the visual representation of the silos.
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tantek the key is to get to a v1 that includes IndieAuth rel=me links, and h-card
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GWG I intend to have that before the month is out.
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tantek re: visual representation of the silos. That's why screenshot and document them on the wiki! :)
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GWG Icons over words.
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GWG Admittedly, your site ends up looking like a NASCAR.
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aaronpk i kind of like my nascar row in my footer :)
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GWG aaronpk, not knocking it.
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tantek aaronpk may I suggest rainbow re-ordering it? ;)
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aaronpk ooh haha
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GWG I was just pondering the idea that even on our own sites, we are encouraged to put silo symbols
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aaronpk right now they are in rough order of how often i use them plus also related ones are together
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Vendan yeah, that seems kinda odd to me
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Vendan like free advertising
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GWG Vendan, exactly
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aaronpk you don't *have* to link to them...
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Vendan if I did it, I'd put something like "And here's the places I'm trying to get away from: "
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GWG That is why I also am implementing jihaisse's way of doing relme
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tantek takes his own advice
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GWG The completely hidden relme.
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tantek yuck
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aaronpk aww you left upcoming.org in there crossed out, that's cute
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aaronpk hopefully that will be restored soon
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GWG Yuck?
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tantek invisiblelinks--
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Loqi invisiblelinks has -1 karma
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Vendan of course, doesn't the rel=me stuff work in a header too?
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GWG tantek, I am trying to cover a broad spectrum of views
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tantek GWG, better to instead make a default "best" choice and ship sooner than worry about a "broad spectrum" up front
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GWG Vendan, jihaisse used <link>
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tantek are they committed to using your plugin?
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GWG tantek, I wrote the code already. It was in Syndication Links.
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GWG I am shifting some of it over before pulling it out.
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Vendan GWG, just saying that parts of the spec for rel=me are links that never even touch the source code to the page
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GWG Vendan, I know.
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GWG Either way, I will continue to struggle.
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Loqi [mention] Jonathan LaCour wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silos https://webmention.io/notification/Wvvksxy9p2HfL-F5FnKqFw
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tantek aaronpk: re-ordered my elsewhere into a rainbow (as best as I could visually fudge it) with a few monochromes before it
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tantek tantek.com
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@malcolmblaney feed discovery #indieweb (https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-02-10-feed_discovery_indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/697203258960404480)
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aaronpk ha that's neat looking
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tantek would likely look even better on yours since a horizontal rainbow looks more "correct" than a vertical one
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tantek plus you only have the color icons, not the text
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unicyclic.com mal edited /rel-feed (+91) "/* Malcolm Blaney */" (view diff)
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