#indiewebcamp 2016-02-09

2016-02-09 UTC
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unicyclic.com mal
edited /public_timeline (+76) "/* public indieweb notes stream */"
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tantek
also re: event month names vs. numbers, what about headings for the month names / numbers?
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tantek
so the individual events just have day?
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tantek
or day-day ?
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tantek
shall I try it
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aaronpk
well regardless of the name, I need a thing that parses a page and gives me a sane version of it, while also archiving the page as it exists at that time
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aaronpk
basically embed.ly + archive.org
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Schnitz
tantek yes it might add accessibility at first glance, checked it now
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aaronpk
but less tailored specifically to blog posts/articles
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KevinMarks
are you going to archive images etc too?
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aaronpk
i am already archiving images
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aaronpk
accumulating quite the collection too, thanks to bridgy home page mentions for tantek
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snarfed1
10k and counting :P
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[miklb]
aaronpk: not sure if this is germane, but have you seen Amber? http://amberlink.org
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aaronpk
oh yeah, looked at that a little bit ago
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aaronpk
for now I'm mostly just interested in archiving the parsed version, not necessarily full on archive.org style
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bear
i've got a couple incomplete implementations of that in my closet - mf2, html but not css or images
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aaronpk
[miklb]: while you're here, what's up with the 2-3 requests per second to webmention.io with perPage=9999?
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bear
I stopped because getting even the full html from a sight with heavy js usage can be tough - so much is built now in the browser with tools like react and the like
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bear
s/sight/site/
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Loqi
bear meant to say: I stopped because getting even the full html from a site with heavy js usage can be tough - so much is built now in the browser with tools like react and the like
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[miklb]
aaronpk: not sure. Can you give me more details? I use the webmention.io plugin for my jekyll site
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aaronpk
a ruby script is making a whole bunch of requests, but it's been going for hours
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aaronpk
getting api/mentions?target[]= with a bunch of different URLs
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[miklb]
let me look at my local install, but I’m not aware of anything running. I build the site in Travis and deploy the compiled HTML.
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aaronpk
does your deploy crawl webmention.io looking for mentions of each page or something?
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gRegorLove
tantek: Did you see my comments earlier about month and day? We can display the full month name via template easily, only entering the yyyy-mm-dd once.
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gRegorLove
Could also display days only if you wanted to group by month, though the group-by-month would be a manual process.
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aaronpk
that almost looks like one of those fake wordpress comments
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aaronpk
"I really enjoyed reading this post. Pleaes continue writing more on your blog. I have subscribed"
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Schnitz
on sc we get fake account owners actually writing nice but enigmated comments, just so you wonder and follow the account back and there is an ad or so... really weird, since deleting that comment then seems a bit harsh in a way, since it most likely written by a person and *does* have something to do with you...
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kylewm.com
edited /projects (+213) "/* Red Wind */ note development hiatus"
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kylewm.com
edited /Red_Wind (+131) "note development hiatus"
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Schnitz
sorry, soundcloud
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Vendan
question, https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-as-note/note.json#L32 is showing & for ampersand, but html fragment serialization says it should be encoded as &
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KevinMarks
that would make more sense
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KevinMarks
and it is & in the html source
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Vendan
yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me to have something that's labeled as html, but isn't actually valid html
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KevinMarks
so yes, fix the result
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aaronpk
reviewing my communication protocol page
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aaronpk
"The best way to respond to something I've written is to post on your own site." with a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/Sessions#Own_Your_Comments
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aaronpk
in the session description: "One way to handle comments is through the pingback or trackback protocols, both of which are widely implemented in many major blogging platforms. We can discuss the merits and drawbacks of each, and other possible solutions. A workshop session could involve implementing trackbacks/pingbacks on your own site, or implementing a new mechanism for using them."
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aaronpk
we've come a long way since then :)
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snarfed
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 72 karma
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aaronpk
now rewriting my "IRC" section to include Slack
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Vendan
ugh, slack
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aaronpk
it's just pretty IRC
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aaronpk
i'm just glad it is now easier for more people to use the communication style IRC provides
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tantek.com
edited /notification (+692) "/* Facebook */ Facebook feed files in RSS, and undocumented, in JSON"
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Vendan
it's siloized pretty irc
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aaronpk
so is IRC tho
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Vendan
I can spin up my own complete IRCd and have my own irc network running in about 10 minutes. I'll admit that IRC is slightly siloized, but nowhere near the level of slack
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aaronpk
the only thing that IRC has over Slack is that the protocol is (somewhat) standardized, so you can use an off-the-shelf client with your own IRC server
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aaronpk
but freenode can't talk to oftc
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aaronpk
and conversely, you can join Slack rooms with clients other than the official Slack client
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Vendan
you can join any irc channel with any client, so that's not a plus for slack
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desttinghim
Has someone tried a non-siloized approach to chat?
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aaronpk
not really
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Vendan
irc is just push for text messages, it's up to you if you want to store them or whatever
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tantek
I thought matrrix was working on that
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aaronpk
i think Matrix is the closest
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aaronpk
they're at least trying not to be a monoculture
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Schnitz
!tell snarfed got twitter to work, all good
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+129) "try month headings"
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desttinghim
I have a personal domain and I have linked to my social media networks
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aaronpk
hmm now the first event looks like February 2 through 10
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tantek
lol true
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aaronpk
it might work like that to remove the month number. would also probably make the events that actually do span multiple days clearer
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desttinghim
Now I'm trying to figure out how to make or use a POSSE site
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aaronpk
05-07...08 is almost incomprehensible
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tantek.com
edited /Events (-76) "remove a DRY violation where it wasn't likely to be useful anyway"
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tantek
aaronpk - I'm wondering if we can do that with a little template help, e.g. from gRegorLove
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aaronpk
templates++
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Loqi
templates has 3 karma
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tantek
probably need a one day template and a two day template
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tantek
desttinghim: great! are you able to sign-in to the wiki? https://indiewebcamp.com/
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KartikPrabhu1
desttinghim: what do you mean by "POSSE site" ?
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desttinghim
Something like known
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desttinghim
Unfortunately I don'r have much experience with web programming
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desttinghim
tantek: I'm logged in now, I think.
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@benwerd
I'm so proud of the @withknown open source community. Publish in a group, or as your own #indieweb site: https://github.com/Idno/known
(twitter.com/_/status/696893971990077441)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "I'm so proud of the @withknown open source community. Publish in a group, or as your own #indieweb site: https://github.com/Idno/known" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/im-so-proud-of-the-withknown-open-source-community-publish
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aaronpk
i just realized i accidentally enabled something i've been wanting to do for years
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aaronpk
bookmarks with blockquote and screenshot collected into a tag
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Mozilla Project: 2016-02-08" by Jesper Kristensen http://blog.mozilla.org/meeting-notes/archives/2331
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Vendan
question, https://github.com/microformats/tests/blob/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-as-note/note.json#L41 shows "value" keys for children, but the parsing spec makes no mention of it
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Vendan
is it supposed to be there, and if so, how is it supposed to be derived?
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aaronpk
might need to ask in #microformats if it's a parser level question
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Vendan
ahh, right, I had forgot about that channel
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Mozilla Project: 2016-02-08" by Jesper Kristensen https://blog.mozilla.org/meeting-notes/archives/2331
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aaronpk
woohoo restored a bunch of pages i had broken in my site move
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aaronpk
it's a little sad checking things off my list because it's still so long no matter how much i do
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[shaners]
!tell mblaney kylewm I think i fixed my tag/category problem in my Atom feeds. Thanks for helping me notice this. https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/commit/bb80c1b8cb32e8355c0f990185d116575d5312eb
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mblaney
shaners looks good now :-)
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Loqi
mblaney: [shaners] left you a message 7 hours, 6 minutes ago: thanks! I think you uncovered a bug of mine. :smile: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454967641024
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Loqi
mblaney: [shaners] left you a message 10 minutes ago: kylewm I think i fixed my tag/category problem in my Atom feeds. Thanks for helping me notice this. https://github.com/darkmatterapp/publisher-server-rails/commit/bb80c1b8cb32e8355c0f990185d116575d5312eb http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454992635306
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aaronpk
yesssss sleep import is restored https://aaronparecki.com/sleep
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aaronpk
trying out hooking up IFTTT to make a micropub request to my website
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[shaners]
What is joomla?
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Loqi
Joomla is a content management system https://indiewebcamp.com/joomla
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Jeena
cool first guy from my talk last week who took the first step into indieweb https://sjolind.se/
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena++ that is awesome
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Loqi
Jeena has 31 karma
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Loqi
[indieweb] "ich bin heute 15,4 kilometer gegangen, in ca. 3:30 stunden. / (gemacht mit compass und GPS-logger) / und atlas: - wirres.net" by Daniel Nix http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9267/1/0/
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@nxD4n
what a PITA to follow #webmention re-replies. Nested comments for everyone ;-) #indieweb @dipix @aaronpk @benwerd
(twitter.com/_/status/696988653189525504)
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KartikPrabhu
sorry nested comments -1 IMO
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KartikPrabhu
wow that tweet is taking forever to load! thanks Twitter!
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Loqi
[mention] Daniel Nix wrote a post that linked to a photo: "2016/Nuremberg" https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg https://webmention.io/notification/lbZCXeLN89qPAt46COfPAg
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KartikPrabhu
lets try again
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /2016/Nuremberg/Guest_List (+340) "/* Participants */ attending!"
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Loqi
[indieweb] "chriswarbo comments on "GNU Social, a FLOSS alternative to Twitter"" by chriswarbo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11064461
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@jkphl
@BarnabyWalters Excited to have you on board — yay! \o/ :) #indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/697012512198365184)
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Schnitz
!tell snarfed there seems to be an issue with responses getting back to my tumblr. I commented on both twitter and FB to a post that I possied thru bridgy, and after 12 hours, nothing showed up. I could manually crawl for twitter https://brid.gy/twitter/belp_audio# then the commentary shows up via disqus on my tumblr post, but I haven't found a way to manually crawl FB and the FB responses...
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Schnitz
...never got back and before it was not necessary to manually crawl, it just worked...
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tbrb
Aiming for a stable 'release' of my command line micropub client tonight, or at least soon \o/
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tbrb
or at least, feature complete for what I envision version 1 to be
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cweiske
tbrb, what vocabulary do you support?
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tbrb
Just a pretty minimal barebones post right now, my first aim was short posts before moving on to others
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tbrb
my own site accepts "slug", "name", "content" & "in-reply-to" so I'm slowly progressing both sides at once
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aaronpk
agreed. I don't want *nested* comments, but showing the whole comment thread on a post would be nice
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aaronpk
also he and I had a somewhat long back and forth webmention discussion, not syndicated to twitter
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aaronpk
and it was definitely kind of hard to follow the whole thread at times
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jonnybarnes
nginx is getting dynamic modules!
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aaronpk
that will make things easier
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jonnybarnes
a prrof-of-concept is in the latest release, v1.9.11
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aaronpk
i *just* installed 1.9.10
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jonnybarnes
also, cheers for updateing the indieauth client code so quickly last night
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petermolnar
I'm not really welcoming this change
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petermolnar
one more attack vector / point of potential failure
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singpolyma
petermolnar++
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Loqi
petermolnar has 15 karma
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petermolnar
I also hope no mod_php is popping up...
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sknebel
it probably makes life a lot easier for package maintainers for distros
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sknebel
+ if you are on tiny machines (haven't checked how much CPU/RAM you need to rebuild nginx
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sknebel
(and in the beginning, stuff like that the order in which you compile module matters is annoying)
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tantek
re: webmention / comment threads - pretty sure ben_thatmustbeme solved that problem ;)
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Schnitz
!tell snarfed not sure whether you've done anything but all comments were just now automatically routed back, so all good, thank you :-)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Schnitz
me thinks maybe bridgy just crawls for comments once a day or so...
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petermolnar
sknebel I'm really, heavily against the trend which helps avoiding learning anything, including compiling a thing that is probably one of the easiest to compile of all
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petermolnar
nginx code is clean, clear, and really easy to compile, even with extra module
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sknebel
petermolnar: understandable, and nginx is probably stable enough that missing distro-updates is survivable
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petermolnar
with the dynamic modules we're about to see precompiled proprietary modules, which makes me sad
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sknebel
I'd bet a big push comes from their commercial variant
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sknebel
can't have commercial software you've paid for you still have to compile yourself!!111
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sknebel
or something like that
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petermolnar
I think it's the reverse, you can't compile our special stuff for yourself, because than you'd have the source
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singpolyma
sknebel, petermolnar: I have several commercial products that came as source, but I think that's generally how companies think, yeah
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aaronpk
oh like Passenger huh
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kylewm
aaronpk: curious what your experience with IFTTT to micropub is. it's been kinda flaky for me
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aaronpk
oh? i haven't triggered it yet. i only hooked up my withings scale to post through it
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aaronpk
forgot to step on my scale this morning to test it
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kylewm
it's hard to tell if it's their fault or mine, there is not much diagnostic information
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terminalpixel_
kylewm: You can see some form of logs if you look at your recipe on the site.
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terminalpixel_
I use it for pulling reddit likes and stuff into my site and I've not had any issue, not quite proper micropub though
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aaronpk
if this works well i'll write up a little tutorial
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aaronpk
it does require that your micropub endpoint accept the access token in the post body instead of the http header, since IFTTT can't set http headers
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terminalpixel_
Yeah I do it in basically the same way but send more simplified data than a full micropub document to specific endpoints with an access token.
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aaronpk
the nice this is a "full micropub document" is actually pretty small
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aaronpk
"h=entry&bookmark-of={{url}}&access_token=xxxxx" would do it
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terminalpixel_
Hmm yeah, not fully got my head around micropub quite yet :P
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aaronpk
that's all it takes to create a bookmark :)
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kylewm
terminalpixel_: the "logs" look like: An error with Maker prevented your Recipe from working.
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terminalpixel_
Ha they may not be of any use but at least they exist
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kylewm
github survey: " Describe your experience with Pull Requests in three words: "
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kylewm
thesis antithesis synthesis?
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tommorris
disappointment on stilts
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tommorris
pedantry as process
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kylewm
tommorris++
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Loqi
tommorris has 92 karma
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kylewm
I said "exercise in humility"
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[shaners]
“Whatever’s clever. Forever."
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bear
W T F
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[kevinmarks]
Passive aggressive patches
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snarfed
Schnitz: re your bridgy twitter delay, bridgy slows down polling your account if it hasn't successfully sent you a webmention in a while
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Loqi
snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 15 hours, 28 minutes ago: got twitter to work, all good http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-08/line/1454984513877
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Loqi
snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 5 hours, 21 minutes ago: there seems to be an issue with responses getting back to my tumblr. I commented on both twitter and FB to a post that I possied thru bridgy, and after 12 hours, nothing showed up. I could manually crawl for twitter https://brid.gy/twitter/belp_audio# then the commentary shows up via disqus on my tumblr post, but I haven't found a way to manually crawl FB and the FB responses... http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455020931298
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Loqi
snarfed: Schnitz left you a message 1 hour, 42 minutes ago: not sure whether you've done anything but all comments were just now automatically routed back, so all good, thank you :-) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455034088075
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snarfed
down to as little as once a day if it's been a month since your last (successful) wm
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Schnitz
snarfed ah, smart, thought so
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[kevinmarks]
The threading/nesting model assumes a single shared conversation space, which isn't true of the web, or twitter really
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Schnitz
snarfed does the polling intervals go up again automatically now that I use it again?
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tantek
KevinMarks: as with many things, depends on the presentation
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snarfed
Schnitz: yes. every 20m if it's sent you a wm in the last week
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tantek
"single shared conversation space" can be made true, if you support receiving salmentions and show all comments on your original post, like ben_thatmustbeme does
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Schnitz
awesome ... thats pretty neat BTW
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[kevinmarks]
Right, but the respondents may have only seen a subset of the comments when they are standalone posts, so presenting as deeply nested replies can be misleading
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tantek
"deeply nested replies" are generally seen as an archaic leftover from Slashdot/Reddit style bad design
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tantek
sites seems to have coalesced on 1 or 2 deep max
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aaronpk
i will say i actually quite like facebook's one level deep reply nesting
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tantek
aaronpk: which is thus 2 levels of comments on an original post
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tantek
that's what I meant by "2 deep max"
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tantek
whereas twitter is 1 deep
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, it lets side conversations go on without getting too far fromt he original
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aaronpk
yeah. I think I will attempt to do that once I support showing replies to replies on original posts
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tantek
(no comments = 0 deep)
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aaronpk
I *think* i have all the data/structure I need in order to do that now, so it is likely just a presentation problem for me
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aaronpk
(I wasn't storing the comments in a way that really supported that way of querying before)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm thinking i may be actually redoing huge chunks of my site come IWC
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[shaners]
My site is 0 comment levels deep.
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[shaners]
re: GitHub pull requests is three words: software built together.
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aaronpk
deliberately?
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snarfed
"software built together." "deliberately?" "well, sometimes."
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aaronpk
ha that was supposed to be in reference to [shaners]' comment levels
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snarfed
i know. just couldn't resist :P
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[shaners]
aaronpk: Yep. I’ll implement webmention in/out soonish. But I prefer to own every pixel on my site.
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aaronpk
#ownyourpixels
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snarfed
demurs
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[kevinmarks]
I do end up with disjointed comments on my site via Twitter, though a lot of that is bridgy interpreting my linkslapping as a posse
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[kevinmarks]
I often link to my longer pieces from the middle of another conversation on twitter
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snarfed
[kevinmarks]: ugh. bridgy's behavior seems wrong even after the epic saga of https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51 ? sorry about that. feel free to add specific examples if you want.
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snarfed
fwiw, bridgy does intentionally still backfeed replies to "mention" posts (like your linkslaps, i'm guessing) as well as POSSE posts. i'm open to debate on that.
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GWG
Greetings all.
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[shaners]
I just POSSE my first “tweet storm” aka toots replying to myself so they thread together on Twitter with the correct in-reply-tos
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snarfed
heh actually [kevinmarks] you originally requested backfeeding replies to mentions :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136905893
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KevinMarks
right, I don't think brid.gy is necessarily doing it wrong now, more that there is context in the thread of replies above my linkslap
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snarfed
KevinMarks: ahhhh sure, understood
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@emilybell
@kevinmarks but that is unsustainable for a commercial organisation ... as they are finding
(twitter.com/_/status/686200683457019905)
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KevinMarks
where I ref it in another context
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GWG
snarfed, do you use fragmentions?
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snarfed
GWG: nope
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andrijevik.net
edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (-198) "/* Official Guest List */"
(view diff)
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GWG
Trying to close an open issue
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gRegorLove
Sounds like setting yourself up for more work if you're going to vet indieweb plugins and decide which ones get listed in "The" Indieweb Plugin
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[kevinmarks]
adding the fragmention script to WP seems like a good thing
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GWG
That is why the issue is so old.
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GWG
I have no opinion
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tantek
tbrb?
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tantek
Kongaloosh?
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tantek
please take and post a photo to the event page!
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tbrb
tantek: it is indeed!
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tbrb
Myself, Kongaloosh_ and Jammy_Stuff (who isn't in here actually)
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tantek.com
edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+51) "add HWC Edi today!"
(view diff)
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Kongaloosh
Jammy is new
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Jammy_Stuff
HI NEW FRIENDS
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tantek
Welcome Jammy_Stuff!
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Jammy_Stuff
I've been told I should come and hang out with the cool kids
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Kongaloosh
Jammy_Stuff++
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Loqi
Jammy_Stuff has 1 karma
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tantek
!tell AngeloGladding is there a HWC Los Angeles 2016-02-10? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar
I've done with my mini-redesign
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[shaners]
petermolnar: what’s your URL again?
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[shaners]
what is micropub?
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Loqi
Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
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[shaners]
"Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients. Web apps and native apps (e.g. iPhone, Android) can use Micropub to post short notes, photos, events or other posts to your own site."
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[shaners]
Is the part about "on one's own domain” and "to your own site” really necessary? Micropub can be used to post to sites other than my own, right?
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aaronpk
that is true, but that is the primary goal
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aaronpk
i actually use micropub to post to twitter now ;)
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gRegorLove
tantek, aaronpk: For /events do you want a template that shows the day(s)-only in a box, similar to /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox, or just in bold text "##–##"?
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tantek
gRegorLove: I would start with a VERY simple linear flow text template that looks pretty much like they do now
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tantek
no need to change the presentation and plumbing at the same time
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aaronpk
I still am completely against the "mm-dd" display
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tantek
aaronpk: ok I'll revert it
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aaronpk
"yyyy-mm-dd" is fine until we come up with a better design
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Me too. I meant days-only for ##-##
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petermolnar
aaronpk I've been preparing to use micropub once in the future; for that, I first need to automate all the logic I apply manually on a post right now ( eg. has attached image, image has exif, exif has certain values => photo ); is this only an issue for me?
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aaronpk
petermolnar: not sure what you mean?
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gRegorLove
"March" for the heading, "14–15 IndieWebCamp MIT..." for the first line
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gRegorLove
That's what I was thinking if I templatized
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petermolnar
I post various things: photos (images I take), things (short notes, bookmarks, etc), long things ("articles"); some of them needs some magic, depending on their type, which I used to to by hand ( select Format, select Category, apply Tags, etc. )
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petermolnar
these things I'm trying to automate as much as possible, but it's a long way
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aaronpk
ah. yeah I went through that process with my new site. mostly following /post-type-discovery on my posts
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tantek
gRegorLove: can you do a simple template with no fancy design anything?
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tantek
just something that generates the h-event markup that we currently have to copy/paste?
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petermolnar
yes, I'm applying the rules of post-type-discovery, but adding some extra: for example, I store webmention reply as an extra field and checking if that url contains anything supported by bridgy, if yes, post to bridgy
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petermolnar
all the small things are adding up, but I'm making a progress
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petermolnar
at least I'll have something to talk about if there will be an IWC Brighton this year
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tantek
petermolnar: have you asked adactio about IWC Brighton?
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petermolnar
I've asked adactio about it, no plans yet
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tantek
perhaps suggest July or August when it's nice in Brighton :)
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petermolnar
nice and expensive :D
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petermolnar
by the way, the UK has beautiful springs and autumns, unlike the summers
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tantek
petermolnar: Brighton tends to get cold in the autumn though
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petermolnar
I've tried reaching out to the Cambridge University ( the UK one ), so far, no response at all; also tried reaching out to whoever I've found on the irc-people page being in the UK to organize one in Cambridge; apart from one response - sorry, too far - nothing :(
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tantek.com
edited /Events (-370) "revert back to YYYY-MM-DD because MM-DD was more confusing/ambiguous, also fix next HWC locations to currently known"
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tantek
aaronpk: would you consider updating the homepage IndieWebCamp photo to be the nice big happy one from IWC SF? https://indiewebcamp.com/#IndieWebCamp
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tantek
2014 is so two years ago ;)
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Vendan
woo, powering my desktop down to install new gpu
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aaronpk
sure! wow yeah i guess that was a while ago now
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (-9) "/* IndieWebCamp */ update to a more recent photo"
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[shaners]
I have to integrate with a SOAP API for a client job. GOODBYE FOREVER, indieweb friends!
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gRegorLove
Simplified version: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Latest_concepts Not sure I care for that for one-day events.
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gRegorLove
It was nice knowing you, shaners. :)
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gRegorLove
I think I suggest sticking with yyyy-mm-dd for now.
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aaronpk
[shaners]: oh noooo
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petermolnar
[shaners] I feel your pain. (/me once had to interface C with C#)
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tantek
what is SOAP?
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tantek.com
edited /SOAP (+45) "See Also: architecture astronomy"
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singpolyma
as long as you have a library and they have a WSDL file, soap is actually fine
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tantek
singpolyma, do you implement anything with SOAP on your own site?
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singpolyma
tantek: on my site? No. I do for work from time to time
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Vendan
I've got some soap stuff, it was a nightmare to do
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Vendan
but that was largely poor library support
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singpolyma
usually SOAP is just like new SOAP('http://client.tld/api.wsdl')->getStuff() or similar
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tantek
what is WSDL?
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Loqi
For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indiewebcamp.com/WSDL
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tantek
whoa big pic aaronpk ! mind if I make it 50% and float it?
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[shaners]
I’m sorry I introduced this into the channel today. I didn’t mean to inflict this onto anyone. Should’ve added a #triggerwarning to the message.
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tantek
shaners, yeah, usually that goes into #indiechat ;)
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aaronpk
It looked too small when it was small
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+78) "/* IndieWebCamp */ float & 50% image"
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aaronpk
and at 50% the text wraps weirdly
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[shaners]
tantek: good call.
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tantek
so I made it 60%
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gRegorLove
What's the reasoning for not using "February 9, 2016" for the display date again? Just realized these iterations on /events are already coming close to that.
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tantek
gRegorLove: because ISO8601 > RFC822 :P
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tantek
!standards
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gRegorLove
So why'd we go down this road of moving away from ISO8601?
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tantek
not as much that as noticing that we had a "2016" heading so could imply from context...
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tantek
what is ISO8601?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ISO8601" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10D9
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[shaners]
o_O that really surprises me
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tantek
ISO8601 is an international standard for dates and times roughly in the form YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS.
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loqi.me
created /ISO8601 (+124) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455051720412 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek
!iso8601
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gRegorLove
tantek: So what do you think of https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#Latest_concepts ? I don't think I care for it for one-day events.
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tantek
I think it will look odd for anything *after* the first event in a month heading
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tantek
that's the problem with that "use heading as label" approach
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tantek
also seems odd to duplicate it with the When: line
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gRegorLove
Yeah, the day number seems too far detached from the month it occurs in
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tantek
if you want a When line it should just have the time
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gRegorLove
I can eliminate that; that's leftover from when I was making a separate box for the date.
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tantek
gRegorLove: anyway, I'd say for now, let's just go with a simple template that replicates the existing markup on /events
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gRegorLove
s/eliminate/eliminate or simplify/
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Loqi
gRegorLove meant to say: I can eliminate or simplify that; that's leftover from when I was making a separate box for the date.
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tantek
that way we can make it at least easier to *author* events there
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tantek
while we *separately* discuss / evolve design
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tantek
no need to tie those two together (authoring and visual design)
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gRegorLove
The latest /events markup, or the way it was a couple days ago? :)
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tantek
latest is basically what it's been for a year plus
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tantek
since I reverted the hiding of year
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tantek
the one or two day event templates to copy/paste are also in the HTML comments of /Events
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tantek
meanwhile, experiments continue...
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+10) "try date/time on different lines to see if that helps readability"
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tantek
take a look gRegorLove ^^^
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tantek
what do you think?
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gRegorLove
Hm. Don't have strong feelings about it either way. I might prefer: [date]: [title] with [time] on the following line.
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gRegorLove
Easy to change in the template though. I'm updating /Template:one-day-event for simple events now.
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tantek
yeah that would require template magic
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gRegorLove
Already using template magic :)
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tantek
and let's see if you can figure out how to do that with multiple time elements, value class pattern etc. ;)
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gRegorLove
Most of the inputs to /Template:one-day-event are set up, just changing how they're displayed currently.
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gRegorLove
Oops, forgot to bold the time.
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tantek
just noticed that the lightbox display of tweet permalinks has a new UI feature! "previous" < > "next" arrows that go to the arrow that go to the next / previous (yes, flipped) tweets!
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tantek
about time!
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snarfed
ahh, webmention attempts to http://example.dev/ are always entertaining
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snarfed
almost as entertaining as attempts to eg Photos.app
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tantek
ah, no left/right arrow keypress support for next/prev nav
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aaronpk
I had to disable my left/right arrow shortcuts
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gRegorLove
Yeah, I noticed Twitter finally caught up to your UI, tantek :) Yours is better though.
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aaronpk
it was conflicting with peoples' expected browser behavior
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tantek
aaronpk: how? there is no horizontal scroll in their layout
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aaronpk
might work okay on twitter
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tantek
nothing to conflict with
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aaronpk
i used to have a read-only text input that would show the short URL for my posts, so if you put your cursor in that and tried to move around to select the text you'd end up navigating away
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tantek
aaronpk - sounds like a default event handling vs bubbling bug
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tantek
you could have fixed that so it worked when you selected
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aaronpk
i actually changed it to be alt+left and alt+right which I liked better
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tantek
the "Working On" and "Itches" lists grow faster than I can implement (and delete) from them
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tantek
gRegorLove: what do you think of the event details on this Events Calendar? (not that it's a great/good example, just a possible source of ideas) https://www.oasis-open.org/events/
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tantek
had two people make similar comments, each on a different POSSE copy of my açai bowl post.
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tantek
thus a real world illustration of the point I think KevinMarks was making earlier about no one single comment context place
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loqi.me
created /Lorem_ipsum (+456) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme and dfn added by tantek"
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GWG
I missed petermolnar? Darn, I wanted to talk to him
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GWG
I am suffering from the anarchist dilemma.
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GWG
There is too much choice.
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tantek
GWG, hence the strategy of putting the choices in a list, then roughly sorting, or just picking which one seems the most important to you today
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GWG
It isn't my dilemma per se.
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GWG
It is the WordPress dilemma
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tantek
what is the WordPress dilemma?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress dilemma" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DC
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GWG
You identified it. New individuals have trouble joining in with WordPress because it is a collection of optional pieces.
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tantek
previously that was the Drupal dilemma
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tantek
making Drupal useful depended on knowing which *set* of extensions to install
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GWG
Making WordPress Indieweb capable requires the same.
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tantek
you can simplify that by making the one IndieWeb plugin useful right away
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GWG
I am working on that now. That is why I am driving myself crazy.
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tantek
stick with the minimal additional scope we previously discussed
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tantek
rel=me + h-card. good enough for IndieAuth logins, and replacing use of Gravatar with your own site!
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GWG
I am sticking with that scope.
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GWG
I just keep thinking about how to make it so it will be easy.
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GWG
There are a lot of profile plugins out there. None that do this though.
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GWG
Visual appeal is hard.
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tantek
GWG, start with *only* the list of "other profiles" that are currently supported by /IndieAuth
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tantek
not a list of "any random social silo"
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GWG
I designed it to have that, and an optional box for anything random.
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tantek
then for the h-card, keep it REALLY simple, like name, photo, city/state/country, bio/note, and maybe t-shirt size just for fun
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GWG
I am muddling through the issues, and I am doing the one thing no other person is committed to...
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GWG
Using it myself
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tantek
selfdogfood++
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Loqi
selfdogfood has 4 karma
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GWG
So it has to do what I want. Minimalism is not the best option.
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GWG
But flashy isn't either
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GWG
When I wrote Syndication Links, I included icon fonts for the silo icons.
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tantek
minimalism is a good default
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tantek
especially for IndieAuth etc.
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tantek
if you want it to do more, you can add extra options for that later
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GWG
People are used to the visual representation of the silos.
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tantek
the key is to get to a v1 that includes IndieAuth rel=me links, and h-card
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GWG
I intend to have that before the month is out.
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tantek
re: visual representation of the silos. That's why screenshot and document them on the wiki! :)
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GWG
Icons over words.
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GWG
Admittedly, your site ends up looking like a NASCAR.
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aaronpk
i kind of like my nascar row in my footer :)
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GWG
aaronpk, not knocking it.
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tantek
aaronpk may I suggest rainbow re-ordering it? ;)
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aaronpk
ooh haha
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GWG
I was just pondering the idea that even on our own sites, we are encouraged to put silo symbols
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aaronpk
right now they are in rough order of how often i use them plus also related ones are together
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Vendan
yeah, that seems kinda odd to me
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Vendan
like free advertising
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GWG
Vendan, exactly
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aaronpk
you don't *have* to link to them...
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Vendan
if I did it, I'd put something like "And here's the places I'm trying to get away from: "
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GWG
That is why I also am implementing jihaisse's way of doing relme
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tantek
takes his own advice
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GWG
The completely hidden relme.
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aaronpk
aww you left upcoming.org in there crossed out, that's cute
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aaronpk
hopefully that will be restored soon
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GWG
Yuck?
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tantek
invisiblelinks--
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Loqi
invisiblelinks has -1 karma
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Vendan
of course, doesn't the rel=me stuff work in a header too?
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GWG
tantek, I am trying to cover a broad spectrum of views
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tantek
GWG, better to instead make a default "best" choice and ship sooner than worry about a "broad spectrum" up front
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GWG
Vendan, jihaisse used <link>
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tantek
are they committed to using your plugin?
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GWG
tantek, I wrote the code already. It was in Syndication Links.
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GWG
I am shifting some of it over before pulling it out.
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Vendan
GWG, just saying that parts of the spec for rel=me are links that never even touch the source code to the page
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GWG
Vendan, I know.
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GWG
Either way, I will continue to struggle.
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tantek
aaronpk: re-ordered my elsewhere into a rainbow (as best as I could visually fudge it) with a few monochromes before it
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tantek
tantek.com
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aaronpk
ha that's neat looking
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tantek
would likely look even better on yours since a horizontal rainbow looks more "correct" than a vertical one
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tantek
plus you only have the color icons, not the text
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unicyclic.com mal
edited /rel-feed (+91) "/* Malcolm Blaney */"
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