#indiewebcamp 2016-02-10

2016-02-10 UTC
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Jeena
The more I think a
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Jeena
about it the more I feel that our movement is mostly about freedom
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tantek
Jeena - there is no "our" "mostly"
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Jeena
and has a lot in common with the free software movement, at least on the philosofical level
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tantek
everybody has different reasons. that's why we have /why with various testimonials
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tantek
no it has very little to do with free software plumbing
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tantek
that's a misconception
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tantek
data is orders of magnitude more important than code
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tantek
code is ephemeral
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tantek
Jeena - perhaps write a blog post about why indieweb is important to *you*, and then we can cite it and add to indiewebcamp.com/why accordingly!
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Jeena
yeah but free software is not about code either
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tantek
all the free software in the world could disappear tomorrow and we would still be here owning our data
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aaronpk
"code is ephemeral" rings so true for me right now, after having just tossed out a bunch of old code
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Jeena
it is about user freedom
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tantek
Jeena, only for users who can code
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tantek
if you can't code, free software is meaningless
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tantek
it's certainly not "free", because you have to pay someone to do something with it
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Jeena
that is obviously not true
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tantek
also, to be frank, the free software "movement" is very ranty
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tantek
witness what happened with Stallman, the 2014 "Indie" Summit, and subsequent anger tweets from ind(.)ie etc.
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tantek
the primary focus (energy) there is all about tearing down others
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tantek
whereas here in indieweb, we focus on building ourselves up
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tantek
VERY different
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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Jeena
So why do you think paying someone to fix your software doesn't make it free? Isn't the freedom there to be able to do that in contrast to that you just can't fix your software because the developer doesn't want you to use it in some specific way?
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tantek
paying != free
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Jeena
free != gratis
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tantek
paying also != freedom
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Jeena
wait, what? how do those two relate at all?
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tantek
anyway - indieweb is about ownership, not freedom that's the difference
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tantek
Jeena, it's like you don't have to be a landowner to vote
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tantek
freedom usually means rights you have without having to "pay to play"
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Jeena
you still have to pay taxes and stuff
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tantek
only on income
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tantek
you don't have to pay anything for the bill of rights
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tantek
anyway - regardless, go write a post about why indieweb matters to you, whether it is about freedom or anything else you care the most about! that's the point
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tantek
the diversity of expression
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tantek
and then we can capture that as yet more reasons on /why
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Jeena
hehe yeah good idea
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tantek
note that there is no "most" or majority reason on /why
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tantek
that's my point - why I was disagreeing with you
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tantek
about "mostly ... about ... freedom"
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Jeena
and I can agree with that
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tantek
it's not - as evidenced by what lots of people have said on /why
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tantek
this way we also capture your positive motivations and help propagate them
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tantek
rather than debate the meaning of freedom :)
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Jeena
I was looking at the frontpage of http://indiewebcamp.com/ and the three headlines: Your content is yours, You are better connected and You are in control. All of this souns to me a loot like freedom
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Jeena
but I fully agree that my "mostly" and so on was a bit too landgrabby
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Jeena
I like the blogpost idea, I still need to sort things out in my head to understand that myself first but I will definatelly write one
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KartikPrabhu
reads logs
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KartikPrabhu
re: nested comments, not sure salmentions + 2 level nesting limit is compatible
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KartikPrabhu
(feel free to ignore below since it is rehashing morning discussion)
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KartikPrabhu
A writes a post and B replies to it. When B get a level-2 reply B displays it and sends a "salmention" to A. So for A it is level 3 comment. Is A supposed to ignore the level-3 response?
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aaronpk
2-level nesting isn't about rejecting/ignoring replies deeper than that, it's just they get displayed all in a list under the 1st level
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KartikPrabhu
yeah then you lose context of the conversation
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aaronpk
you can try it out on facebook. click "reply" to a post and it will nest it under the post. click "reply" on that, and it will nest it. then click "reply" on that one, and it appears directly under it, no longer nested
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aaronpk
it's an acceptable loss of precision IMO
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Jeena
I agree, tree might visually not be the nicest thing to look at but I haven't found a better representation yet
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: no not about visually good to look at. Nested comments are a UX nightmare
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Jeena
one could make subtrees closed and if the user is interested in them they can show them
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KartikPrabhu
yeah has been tried and is still a nightmare to click around a whole bunch of trees then getting back to level0 you have to click through again etc...
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Jeena
I'm thinking like you browse your filesystem in Finder
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KartikPrabhu
good luck doing that on small screens ;)
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Jeena
finder can do it even on small screens ;)
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aaronpk
has never used Finder on a screen smaller than an 11" laptop
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Jeena
and I never said it was easy to do :p
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gRegorLove
By the time we get to 3-level nested comments, don't we run into the lack-of-comment quality problem? ;)
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aaronpk
gRegorLove++
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Loqi
gRegorLove has 49 karma
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: on forums yes. But a level-3 on your post might be a level-2 salmention from somewhere else and a level-1 comment some other where
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gRegorLove
I meant in most any comments section
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gRegorLove
But yes, I'm exaggerating a bit.
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KartikPrabhu
on a comment section on one site yes. But if you are doing distributed commenting with "salmention" propagation then not so sure
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aaronpk
it's not like people who leave bad comments are thinking "oh this comment is 9 levels deep, I don't need to make it a good one"
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aaronpk
the deeper nested the comment, the less related to the original post it is, so I believe gRegorLove's original hypothesis is true
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KartikPrabhu
on a single site/forum the tangential conversations are bad exactly because of loss of context even in a nested tree UX
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: then the logic that if I get a level-3 salmention I should simply display it at level-0 is more problematic
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gRegorLove
I thought the suggestion was it go at level-2, like FB does.
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aaronpk
anyway this is mostly theoretical until someone actually builds this
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: yes and if I get a level-3 salmention propagated comment should I ignore it because it might be bad or accept it and show it as level-1 (which means it is not bad?)
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aaronpk
fwiw I am planning on implementing it like Facebook once I start showing comment threads at all, since right now i am only even showing the first level of comment
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: let me find an example for you ;)
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aaronpk
i have a counter example already ;)
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gRegorLove
Huh? I'm not suggesting rejecting any wm
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aaronpk
start here and try to follow the conversation between our sites: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9275/1/54/
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: ok then where do I display the level-3 comment I get through a "salmention"
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aaronpk
it technically goes 6 levels deep
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: Wherever you like. :) If you're making it like FB, it would show up with all the other level-2 responses.
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aaronpk
but i want to show the whole conversation as a single thread, since it was just me and wirres.net back and forth a bunch
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: then your logic that level-3 comments are not "quality" does not apply
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gRegorLove
You're misunderstanding my jokey comment.
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KartikPrabhu
oh ok if that was not meant to be serious then fine
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Jeena
I actually really don't like it how facebook does nested comments, it is mostly not usable because they sort them differently for everyone + the not leveling deeper, which creates so much confusion and bad blood because people think someone answered on one thing but they did on something else, etc.
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KartikPrabhu
but then my objection is how do I show that the level-3 comment was actually in response to some other comment and not directly to my post
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: yes exactly
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gRegorLove
Comment sections generally are trash fires these days. "This is dumb" > "No your dumb" > "It's you're, dummy" etc.
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gRegorLove
That's what I was alluding to.
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: i'm saying i don't think it matters at that point. plus you can always click the permalink of the post in question to see exactly what it's in relation to
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KartikPrabhu
which is almost as good as not showing "salmention" propagation. If people want see comments on a comment then should simply go to the permalink
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Jeena
I learned forums at SELFHTML which had a classic threaded forum, so I am biased, but I think this is good UI, although not nice to look at https://forum.selfhtml.org/self/2016/feb/9/eventlistener-click/1660531 as an example
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@nxD4n
what a PITA to follow #webmention re-replies. Nested comments for everyone ;-) #indieweb @dipix @aaronpk @benwerd
(twitter.com/_/status/696988653189525504)
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aaronpk
but anyway, it's not important until someone actually builds any version of this
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: fixed layout ;)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: I already posted an example from Bridgy
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Jeena
and on this forum the > level 3 is trash is really not true, thread drift is encouraged and leads to really good discussions and content.
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: you show nested comments now?
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@devpoga
RT @calum_ryan Slides from my talk last night @FrontEndLondon https://calumryan.com/talks/fel-280116/ Thanks to all at FEL Credits to @t, @adactio + #indieweb community
(twitter.com/_/status/697221514089754624)
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: that link takes me to the paragraph that starts with "I already have this active on my site!"
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KartikPrabhu
wow! broken fragmention.js
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Jeena
and KartikPrabhu yes it is fixed for a good reason
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gRegorLove
What is nested comments?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "nested comments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DD
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gRegorLove
What is threaded comments?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "threaded comments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DE
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gRegorLove
What is thread?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "thread" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DF
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aaronpk
now it put me half way through that paragraph 3
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aaronpk
maybe i should remove the plugin from chrome
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aaronpk
nope, didn't help
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KartikPrabhu
debugging to do
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KartikPrabhu
look for the string "if you mark up your"
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aaronpk
it appears to be a reply to the thing above it
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KartikPrabhu
luckily kylewm's comment webmention arrived precisely after the comment he was replying to otherwise that would have been completely out of context
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aaronpk
with 2-level comment threading it would still have looked right
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KartikPrabhu
yes. you have shifted my problem to level-3 then ;)
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KartikPrabhu
that is what I am saying. I gave a level-1 max example
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aaronpk
but i'm saying it doesn't really matter after a point
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aaronpk
and i think facebook picked a reasonable level
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KartikPrabhu
ok you seem to be fine with max-level = 2 but that is arbitrary
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KartikPrabhu
I'll stick with max-level = 1 and no "salmention"
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aaronpk
i'm almost certain facebook did some amount of research or experimentation to arrive at that number
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Jeena
btw. cjk101010 started writing a microformats2 parser for elixir (which is like ruby but runs on the erlang VM as far as I understand) https://github.com/ckruse/microformats2-elixir
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: feel free to add to the list : http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
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Jeena
I guess not yet, he only has implemented rel= stuff yet, I'll wait until more works
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KartikPrabhu
you could make a "in development" section
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Jeena
I'm not quite comfortable with this, I will tell him to do it if he wants instead
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Jeena
hm, https://kartikprabhu.com/ doesn't have a RSS feed and I'm using http://reader.kylewm.com/ just like I used Twitterm as a stream for reading short notes when I'm bored. Longer articles I really like to read in my normal Feedreader.
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: yes no RSS only Atom
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Jeena
oh there is a atom feed?
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Jeena
ah, all the way down there is a link
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KartikPrabhu
Yes URL in the footer, it is markedup correctly too
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KevinMarks
catches up on the comment discussion
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: maybe your reader does not parse spaced rel values like rel="feed alternate"
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Jeena
have you been thinking also using something like that <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Blog" href="/atom" /> so browsers would show it in their UI?
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KevinMarks
the facebook example isn't right, because that is a silo and so can show all comments
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KevinMarks
a better example is facebook comments backfed onto a post, that come from multiple people sharing the articel on fb
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: no. not using hidden meta stuff for these things
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Jeena
I mostly don't search for a link in the content, I kind of assume that if my browser can't find and show it I will not either
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: that is the example I gave
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KartikPrabhu
Jeena: I don't like hidden meta stuff so not going to happen on my site sorry
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KartikPrabhu
except for using <a> instead of <link> all my markup is correct
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Jeena
but yeah I agree that your markup with the type= and rel= and everything should be enough for my browser
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Jeena
I'm using a addon in firefox for that, perhaps I could fix it myself if the code is free, I'll have a look
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@Sneakyness
is indieauth dying? I can’t log in to snack overflow
(twitter.com/_/status/697226544645828609)
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KartikPrabhu
errr... i didn't know "snack overflow" supported in indeauth?
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aaronpk
via openid
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aaronpk
let's see if this works
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aaronpk
oops! the twitter reply ID didn't get set https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/697226881561546752
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@aaronpk
@Sneakyness no, but OpenID is dying, which is what Stack Overflow uses. It's been getting less and less reliable :-(
(twitter.com/_/status/697226881561546752)
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KevinMarks
facebook's comments plugin sorts by who you know as well as by time
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snarfed
aaronpk: you're using silo.pub for posse now?
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@benborges_
now .@politwoops just need to integrate #indieweb onsite to be able to aggregate social media interactions around a particular deleted tweet
(twitter.com/_/status/697233287518015488)
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Jeena
interesting, it seems that I have always misused rel="alternative" http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home#use_with_rel-alternate
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Jeena
rel=alternate I mean
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Jeena
and as far as I can see Firefox has a bug which can be seen with KartikPrabhu's HTML not using <link> but just <a>
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KartikPrabhu
is it FF or the plugin?
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Jeena
it seems to be Firefox, which has the functionality of the button also under the Menu -> Bookmarks -> Subscribe to this page ...
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Jeena
I didn't quite understand the plugins code but it seems it just uses the FireFox implementation of the discovery
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Jeena
and KartikPrabhu after everything I read it looks like that you should use rel="alternate home" not rel="alternate feed" even though I think all the explanations are quite wage on why and it doesn't quite fit your and mine use of it where we want to link to different feeds for articles and notes, and not to a website-feed
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[shaners]
Loqi, messages?
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Jeena
KartikPrabhu your website is now as an example in the Firefox Bugtracker ;) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247143
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KartikPrabhu
I am sure they are going to complain that I should use <link> or my markup is wrong
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Jeena
hehe I tried to make this not possible by linking to your homepage which is allowed to have rel=alternate instead of home and by linking to their own developer pages where they describe how and why to use <a> instead of <link>
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KartikPrabhu
aaha! nice
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kylewm
aaronpk: silo.pub didn't get an "in-reply-to" parameter when you published that tweet
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aaronpk
kylewm: oh yeah didn't mean to suggest that was silo.pub's fault
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aaronpk
i probably just forgot to add that to my code
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aaronpk
(which is a benefit of bridgy's method, since the in-reply-to url is on the page, bridgy can find it with no extra work on my part)
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aaronpk
reads silo.pub docs
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aaronpk
submits pull request with typo fixes
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aaronpk
...if i could figure out how any python projects are laid out
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aaronpk
kylewm: what does silo.pub do with unrecognized parameters in a request?
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aaronpk
huh it just occurred to me that I can add both bridgy publish *and* silo.pub as syndication options in my site, and use each one separately when I want
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aaronpk
woohoo silo.pub fix deployed!
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aaronpk
(i mean fix on my site for silo.pub)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: I was afraid that you got pro-efficient in python and might out-perform all of us but... phew!
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aaronpk
ha yeah
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aaronpk
not at all
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aaronpk
RWAR AT TWITTER MODALS
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aaronpk
if I click a permalink it should at least pushstate my browser so the URL changes
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KartikPrabhu
it loads (some of) the background page before the modal slowing down the load time a lot
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@aaronpk
@Sneakyness Change your openid.server to https://openid.indieauth.com/openid and it should be more reliable
(twitter.com/_/status/697279428267606016)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: for in twitter permalinks it does no?
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aaronpk
i dunno. i was on my "notifications" page (to reply to that tweet) and it didn't do it
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KartikPrabhu
huh weird! on the "modal" permalink page it does seem to work on FF
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aaronpk
temporary glitch?
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aaronpk
all I know is I clicked the date on the tweet, clicked my browser bookmarklet to reply to the tweet, which prefills the in-reply-to field of Quill, and it was not the permalink
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KartikPrabhu
weird... in actual browser-based browsing it seems to work. Just clicked around my notification page
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aaronpk
maybe i clicked too fast
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KartikPrabhu
oh yeah, it changes URL state after the modal loads
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[kevinmarks]
A thought - does u-featured imply use cover and u-photo imply use contain?
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@kevinmarks
@margarita @xor @washingtonpost why the hell does @twitter use cover rather than contain for images? Bonkers. @Stammy
(twitter.com/_/status/697276513540919298)
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KartikPrabhu
[kevinmarks]: no those are purely presentational aspect
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KartikPrabhu
[kevinmarks]: also "contain" is hard to do with multiple images which Twitter supports. Of course it could do contain on single images and cover on others
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KartikPrabhu
hard to do wrt "pretty" layout
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
evening!
tantek, KartikPrabhu, cweiske, lukebrooker, sandro, hober, elima, dogada and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
Twitter has been getting it badly wrong for ages though
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tantek
no idea what this featured vs contains vs ccover images thing means KevinMarks - this is getting too abstract for me
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tantek
Loqi?
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tantek
that's odd, my "no idea ..." apparently went to the Slack bridge but not to the logs?!?
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tantek
wat the wat
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tantek
how is that out of order?!?
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cweiske
it isn't, it's the same here in my irc client
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tantek
ok my misinterpretation
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KartikPrabhu
wait how is that a response to "no idea... " ?
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KartikPrabhu
it is out of order in the logs too if that is a response...
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tantek
I still don't understand featured vs cover vs contains images
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: as cweiske pointed out, it's not out of order, I misinterpreted KevinMarks's statement as response to me when it was a response to something earlier
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: cover/contain are the terminology in the background image positioning stuff.
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tantek
oh *that* cover / contain (object-fit)
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tantek
ok nevermind.
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KartikPrabhu
as I replied that is a presentation issue not of microformats
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tantek
in other news, speaking of threading, looks like Twitter is now showing quoted tweets as replies in threads!
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@t
avoid tco fuglifier: • becomes . in SMS. A # prefix stops tco yet syndicates (e.g. FB) autolink: #http://tantek.com (ttk.me t4Jx2)
(twitter.com/_/status/225102430981988354)
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tantek
scroll to the bottom and see that the last reply is actually a quote of the tweet which looks quite odd presentationally I must say
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tantek
no wait
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tantek
I'm confusing a nested image for a quoted tweet
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tantek
sheesh
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tantek
that's pretty hilarious though
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KartikPrabhu
oh hmm yeah that is an image
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KartikPrabhu
wonder why that image was put in that reply
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tantek
you can fake a quoted tweet by posting a screenshot of a tweet!
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: presumably the tweet reply author added it
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KartikPrabhu
yeah which seems like a strange practice to me
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[kevinmarks]
because they were showing what got hotlinked?
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[kevinmarks]
so, what I was getting at is that twitter often crops images badly
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[kevinmarks]
and inconsistently between clients
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[kevinmarks]
and it is using CSS cover to do this
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[kevinmarks]
and it struck me that there are images you do want this for like header images
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[kevinmarks]
and those you don't (images of text particularly)
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tantek
Twitter image embedding is really bad.
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tantek
you have to click like 3 times to see images
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[kevinmarks]
and they often get smaller
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tantek
what are these, images for ANTS?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "these, images for ANTS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DG
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[kevinmarks]
they should look at shape of image
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[kevinmarks]
if it's wide, do a max-width on it
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tantek
😂😂😂😂😂
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[kevinmarks]
if it's tall, maybe crop it
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tantek
KevinMarks: or just reverse engineer what FB does
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tantek
seriously this is not rocket science
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[kevinmarks]
if you can OCR text from it, don't crop it
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@diplix
in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/697321574001565696)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "pubsubhubbub" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/0/
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@AdelaideSeoSA
RT diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/697322074109566976)
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KartikPrabhu
errr image layout/cropping is not easy... silos might be able to do it with some image processing AI type tools but i don't know anyone who does it on thir site
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: works fine for me :P
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tantek
check tantek.com stream e.g. on mobile or desktop, then permalinks
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KartikPrabhu
are you processing images in any way?
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tantek
no need
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KartikPrabhu
yeah good luck placing images with different heights next to each other
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tantek
hah - who cares about doing that?
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KartikPrabhu
Twitter with multiple photo posts
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tantek
what is a multiple photo?
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KartikPrabhu
and I do too so I had to "discover" flexbox hack for it
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "multiple photo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DH
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tantek
what is a multi-photo?
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Loqi
A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indiewebcamp.com/multi-photo
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tantek
multiple photo is /multi-photo
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loqi.me
created /multiple_photo (+24) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455089675488 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
"tiled/arranged in some layout"
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@kaffeeringe
RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/697322909497495552)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: still not a problem
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tantek
examples from /mult-photo
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KartikPrabhu
you are placing them stacked, that is not what I asked for
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tantek
step 1, be lazy and design the minimal thing that works and works well on mobile, AKA single column
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KartikPrabhu
if you don't care about placing them side-by-side sure
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tantek
step 2, stop futzing around with the feature and go implement a different feature instead
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tantek
works for Instagram, works for me
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KartikPrabhu
eh... I care about my image layouts so I did it
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tantek
or rather, see how IG does the 3 columns across grid layout of images on someone's profile
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tantek
that seems to work fine
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KartikPrabhu
I mean your response is "I don't care about this problem" which is OK
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KartikPrabhu
but others (like me) care about layout images differently
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KartikPrabhu
s/layout/laying out
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: but others (like me) care about laying out images differently
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@MazonasDon
RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/697324125572964352)
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[kevinmarks]
That's where you make the easy layout, then call masonry to tile them up
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KartikPrabhu
solving layout problems with JS :(
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KartikPrabhu
I used masonry on my old site and it is annoying
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KartikPrabhu
see how crappy that looks
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[kevinmarks]
Looks ok, but your new site is nicer
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Kongaloosh
Jammy_Stuff++
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Loqi
Jammy_Stuff has 2 karma
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@INC_says
#film #feature #shortfilm #indieweb #fanfilm #documentary #indiefilm #video we are interested. https://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/
(twitter.com/_/status/697388256388734977)
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Phyks
hey, just wondering, have you ever heard about people willing to implement basic ideas behind indiewebcamp to some entirely different domains? (thinking in scientific publication for instance)
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petermolnar
Phyks withknown.com as far as can recall was made to bring indieweb to education
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Phyks
petermolnar: yes, remember having heard of such things at a withknown presentation @Mozilla Paris last year
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Phyks
actually, I am working with some friends on open access policies and related stuff around scientific publications (not sure how familiar people on this chan are with these things)
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Phyks
and a recent discussion reminded me some ideas from indiewebcamp, especially concerning webmentions, mf2 etc
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petermolnar
anything particular?
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GWG
petermolnar, I am still working on the Indieweb plugin. Wanted to ask you about it
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petermolnar
sure, hit me
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GWG
What would make you use it?
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GWG
I intend to use it on my site when I feel it is ready.
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petermolnar
at this very moment, I really don't need it as I have most of my needs covered; I know it's against selfdogfooding, especially that I triggered some changes in it
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petermolnar
however, if I get rid of some stuff, like the extension of the author fields, it'd make good use
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GWG
Well, the problem always comes with how a project satisfies differing needs.
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GWG
Petermolnar, why do you have use all features?
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petermolnar
GWG sorry, your question doesn't really make sense to make, can you please rephrase it?
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GWG
You said you wanted to get rid of some of the h-card fields. Why do you have to use that feature if you want to generate your own h-card?
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petermolnar
I meant that I have them right now, as part of my author settings of my theme
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petermolnar
I'd have to get rid of those
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petermolnar
in order to make use of the indieweb plugin :)
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GWG
Oh.
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GWG
I intend to remove things from my existing infrastructure as well.
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GWG
And I intend to have filters for customization.
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GWG
I am not trying to tell people how things should look, just provide a baseline.
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GWG
The advantage of a Newcomer being able to add relme and a simple h-card to any site should encourage adoption.
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@deande
RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/697431305114488833)
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ben_thatmustbeme
wow, ANOTHER RSVP from eventbrite
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Phyks
petermolnar: nothing really specific in the short term, but there seem to be some similar problematics
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Phyks
In particular, there are many (decentralized) repos to post open access scientific papers and this raises concerns about indexing and archiving them (there are some people at archive.org working on this for instance)
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Phyks
I was thinking in webmentions particularly, which could be another and more modern way of referencing previous works
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olivermak.es
created /Template:oliverpattison (+121) "add icon and name"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "pubsubhubbub" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/
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Loqi
[mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ commented 'und dein Artikel erscheint sofort in #indiewebcamp IRC auch durch die PubSubHubb...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455120342094 (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/10/6/)
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aaronpk
mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut
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aaronpk
!tell tantek it looks like Google is still using pubsubhubbub to get things into the index quickly http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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olivermak.es
created /User:Olivermak.es (+809) "write profile"
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Loqi
[mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ commented 'Yeah, I need to update webmention.io to fully implement the http://indiewebcamp....' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/10/7/)
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@olivermakes
@jgarber Just RSVP’d on the IndieWebCamp site – thanks!
(twitter.com/_/status/697460884650594305)
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olivermak.es
edited /User:Olivermak.es (+49) "update /* Projects */"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "A short note about web standards from your friends at Known" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/a-short-note-about-web-standards-from-your-friends-at
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Self-hosted Known 0.8.5 has left the building - with better indieweb, micropub and AMP support." by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/self-hosted-known-085-has-left-the-building---with-better
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/why-we-built-known
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kylewm
those grep.io results are interesting
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kylewm
all over the place time-wise
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aaronpk
it's just superfeedr now actually, no grep.io
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kylewm
can y'all think of any sites that have a good "notifications" page? all that's coming to mind for me is github and twitter
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aaronpk
I don't actually find the github notifications very useful
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tantek
kylewm: if you see a github notifications example you like, could you screenshot it and add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/notifications#Silo_Examples
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Loqi
tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 4 minutes ago: it looks like Google is still using pubsubhubbub to get things into the index quickly http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455121122698
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kylewm
aaronpk: yes I agree github's aren't very useful
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bear
I prefer the github notifications page over scanning my email for events
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Schnitz
pancake.io is sooo great...
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kylewm
you asked for it...
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kylewm
what is pancake.io?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DJ
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tantek
aaronpk: looks like they (Google) fixed it. appears to show recent results now for my site-specific search box
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tantek
Schnitz: why?
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aaronpk
always fun to google sentences from your recent posts to see where they end up https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Made+my+own+a%C3%A7ai+bowl+this+morning%22
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kylewm
tantek: thanks for the subtle nudge to check /notifications :)
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Schnitz
tantek for people with a non-technical background its great entry into indie web to make them use dropbox to get started with their first own self-authored web site
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tantek
kylewm: ;)
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tantek
Schnitz: does it actually produce HTML? or is it one of those trendy client-side JS only things?
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Schnitz
thats the good part, instead of DropPages, which sucks since its just giving you some weird CMS trying to generate stuff, pancake.io does NOTHING, gives you a folder, you put in your on HTML
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Schnitz
Just a test, sorry for the mess :-)
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Schnitz
this is out of my dropbox
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Schnitz
via pancake.io
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Schnitz
took me 2mins to set up
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kylewm.com
uploaded /File:2016-02-10-GitHub-notifications.png "Screenshot of GitHub notifications page"
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Schnitz
well nothing was bit premature, there a two JS scripts being added. Need to check whether thats in any way problematic, but otherwise it seems straight-forward...
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kylewm.com
edited /notification (+549) "/* Github */"
(view diff)
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petermolnar
emoji/reacji question: is anyone aware of a unicode-emoji downgrader to old ascii versions?
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singpolyma
petermolnar: you mean to :smile: and similar, or to :) ?
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petermolnar
😄 => :D
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aaronpk
awesome
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singpolyma
that table seems to have more emoticons in it,
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petermolnar
I just need to reverse it
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olivermakes
where does loqi pull [indieweb] links from?
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kylewm
olivermakes: from a superfeedr tracker feed
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olivermakes
neat! thanks
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snarfed
speaking of superfeedr, aaronpk have you seen a successful telegraph /superfeedr notif go through yet?
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snarfed
just curious
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Loqi
[indieweb] "How the Signals used by Capitalist Supply Chains could serve a Mutual Coordination Economy" by Stacco Troncoso http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-signals-used-by-capitalist-supply-chains-could-serve-a-mutual-coordination-economy/2016/02/10
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Loqi
[indieweb] "How the Signals used by Capitalist Supply Chains could serve a Mutual Coordination Economy" by Stacco Troncoso http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/P2pFoundation/~3/x099ythvd4I/10
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aaronpk
snarfed: yeah i've been getting them from wirres.net!
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Schnitz
need to revoke my enthusiasm for pancake.io
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Schnitz
seems like a abandoned project and its super buddy. I crashed and I can't get it to work again
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snarfed
aaronpk: cool! so decoding json and returning 200 made it happy?
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Schnitz
s/buddy/buggy
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Loqi
Schnitz meant to say: seems like a abandoned project and its super buggy. I crashed and I can't get it to work again
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aaronpk
yea although I am still getting some empty requests, and not sure if i'm not decoding them properly or if they really are empty
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Schnitz
great idea, just not being maintained / not stable enough... just lost quite some time unfortunately
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tantek
Schnitz did the creators of pancake.io run it on their own sites?
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Schnitz
yes I think so... it takes it from dropbox.com but relays it thru *subdomain*.pancakeapps.com
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tantek
do you know who the creators are and what their site URLs are?
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Schnitz
tantek oh you mean whether they were dogfeeding?
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tantek
selfdogfooding in particular, using their online *selves* to dogfood it
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Schnitz
right lemmecheck
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Schnitz
problem is, all Twitter / GitHub postings from pancake.io stop somehwere 2014(!)
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tantek
I wonder what caused the pancakeiocalypse
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Schnitz
its a real pitty... just a great idea, really!
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tantek
a good idea maybe. can't really qualify it as "great" until the creators put their own identity and selves behind it.
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Schnitz
I've actually sent an email(!) now to support@pancake.io
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Schnitz
tantek: fully agreed!
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snarfed
Schnitz: that's fairly common for github orgs. it often (always?) defaults org memberships to private. kinda annoying.
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Schnitz
snarfed ah ok thanks for that, didn't know, good to know
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Schnitz
the problem with such things is that it would really get people trying to move to something indieweb frustrated, 'cos the system pancake.io just fails in between by itself, and I know its them, but someone with less background won't know and get frustrated real fast. So as it stands we should really take off pancake.io from the WIKI
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tantek
where is it on the wiki?
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tantek
we should not take it off. we should document its failure
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Loqi
definitely
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GWG
Afternoon
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Schnitz
checking
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kylewm
Schnitz: previous markbox dot io was trying to do much the same thing
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kylewm
previously*
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tantek
Schnitz: looks like someone is paying attention to the Twitter at least: https://twitter.com/pancakeio/status/656555829819150336
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@pancakeio
@graedotme Active-ish: bugs get fixed but feature development is slow
(twitter.com/_/status/656555829819150336)
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[kevinmarks]
Heh re emoji. I did a partial one in this talk
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Schnitz
wow now its working again
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Schnitz
is now quite unsure how to judge such a service that seems abandoned and 'flickers' between functioning and disfunctional with regards to the Wiki and promoting to other people or using it at all
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tantek
Schnitz: ask the same questions I asked you above
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tantek.com
edited /Dropbox (+389) "pancake.io possibly abandoned"
(view diff)
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Schnitz
right I didn't find the people behind so I can't tell whether they're dogfeeding it
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tantek
that first part is a very bad sign and you can stop there and ignore it
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tantek
no humans = it will lose organizational momentum at some point and die
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tantek
same problem with IPFS for example
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Schnitz
alright, I agree with you tantek, very good update of the wiki, that seems sensible and correct to me now
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tantek
Schnitz: if you like you can create a whole separate page for pancake.io so that it shows up better in search results!
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tantek
e.g. click on this
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tantek
what is Pancake.io?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DK
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Schnitz
lol :-) no worries I'm not too much in bashing mode today, that will be fine :)
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tantek
The key here is not to "bash" but rather to document cold hard facts that can help new folks avoid trying unstable, buggy, fragile, or unreliable things
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tantek
e.g. this is not bashing IMO - just the facts: https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox#Possibly_Abandoned
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Schnitz
sure I agree.
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tantek
and that's actually key, because no need to be harsher than that on something which is not doing well
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tantek
it's possible that it's creators may re-emerge, and then it will help that any such documentation is purely factual. because then they can edit it once they have changed the circumstances.
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Schnitz
a whole page might just be a little too much attention, it being located where it is in the wiki seems the right level of awareness for this project
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tantek
instead of debating opinions
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tantek
how much time did you spend on setting up and debugging your pancake.io?
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Schnitz
1 hour at least
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Schnitz
before the sure it was not 'my' fault
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Schnitz
s/the/being
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Loqi
Schnitz meant to say: before being sure it was not 'my' fault
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tantek
if you put it on a separate page, you might save some number of new folks that "1 hour"
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Schnitz
I would want to wait at least a bit whether or not I get something back via email from support@pancake.io
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tantek
good call
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Schnitz
you know me tantek, I'm too nice :-)
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tantek
it's a false nice I'm sorry to say, because you are not being nice to all the new people who might discover it and waste another hour
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Schnitz
fully agreed
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Schnitz
but the documentation on the wiki in sufficient now, no?
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tantek
no it is not very discoverable
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Schnitz
does an additional page really add that much benefit from keeping people away from this (potential) trap?
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Schnitz
I learned about pancake.io exactly from that spot on the wiki where it now says possibly abandoned
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Schnitz
so if this change had already been made, I wouldn't have dealt with pancake.io
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tantek
true - it might have helped for your particular discovery path
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Schnitz
ah I see
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tantek
however if someone simply googles for pancake.io
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Schnitz
ok you convinced me
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Schnitz
what is pancake.io?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DL
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tantek.com
edited /IPFS (+563) "expand dfn, no human names, no evidence of self-dogfooding = risky, experimental at best"
(view diff)
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sknebel
it seems like their main page is actually served from IPFS via a web gateway
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belp.audio
created /pancake.io (+1027) "Created page with "=Pancake.Io= pancake.io is a service that turns your dropbox into a web hosting service. While the idea seems good and the implemenation (mostly) straight-forward, we currently ...""
(view diff)
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Schnitz
hmmm bummer, looking thru the alteratives now, they either cost money or don't allow just pussing thru a HTML file as-is http://alternativeto.net/software/pancake-io/
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tantek.com
edited /projects (+609) "add Take A Chance category after Get Inspired for projects in personal-site-use by people in the community, but not by the creators/developers, note FrancisCMS is selfdogfooded as is WordPress! Update Known description a bit"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /pancake.io (+110) "stub, dfn, sections, formatting"
(view diff)
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Schnitz
gRegorLove: thx so much!
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kylewm
Schnitz: what is your goal with publishiing via Dropbox?
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Schnitz
kylewm educating my fellow music people about indie web
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Schnitz
(which I'm not gonna do now of course)
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Schnitz
all of my music people have dropbox with lots of music
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Schnitz
giving me a way of making that be a (indieweb) site as well, simply, *might* be a good way forward
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Schnitz
but as it stands now, no
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Vendan
Schnitz, a $5 a month DO droplet can serve up quite a bit of traffic with no issue
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Schnitz
Vendan good point, was checking the zero-money options first, tho
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Vendan
it's going to be hard to find something that is going to be ok with a large amount of outgoing without being paid
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Schnitz
Vendan fully agreed
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Schnitz
however the people I'm targetting are victims of the silos era
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Schnitz
everything free
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Schnitz
its a problem
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Schnitz
I personally am with you, of course
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Vendan
meh, that's a problem of education, really
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Vendan
nothing is free
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Schnitz
absolutely!
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Vendan
you just pay the cost another way
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Schnitz
but this is whats driving people into SoundCloud, etc.
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Vendan
which has it's own limits on length and such
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Schnitz
yes absolutely and this totally bongkers
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Schnitz
cause then they DO pay
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Vendan
personally, if I ever offered an online service, it'd be strictly as "you pay for what you use" kinda thing
#
Vendan
not specifically rationing out data and such
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kylewm
Schnitz: this is something where i think the tilde.club stuff is interesting. you could set up the server and offer to host your friends' stuff on it
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Vendan
but you'd pay to store your data in my "silo"
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kylewm
and absolutely not open to just any random person
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Schnitz
kylewm: this is news, pls. expand!
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Vendan
lol, tilde.club is a standard linux/unix box with user accounts and such
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kylewm
yeah :)
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Vendan
and a web server set to serve up from each user's home directory
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Schnitz
Vendan: I get you, I just now my folks, and they won't something working before they pay, or don't even have to pay anytime soon
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tantek
alright, let's see who is feeling in a defining mood today (gRegorLove ?)
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tantek
what is decentralized?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "decentralized" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DM
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tantek
what is distributed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "distributed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DN
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Vendan
it's neat, but really more towards a unix/linux centric user
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Schnitz
I use Ubuntu
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Schnitz
that should say everything .-)
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Vendan
Schnitz, my other thing is I try to write stuff as a wordpress-like "here's the multi-user server, here's the single user server"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IPFS (+130) "link to events"
(view diff)
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kylewm
yes I agree, I was more thinking about the tilde club idea of multiple people sharing one server. if you wanted to run a little script that copies documents from html into your server, that'd be awesome
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kylewm
s/html/dropbox
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Vendan
and you can switch between them on demand
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Loqi
kylewm meant to say: yes I agree, I was more thinking about the tilde club idea of multiple people sharing one server. if you wanted to run a little script that copies documents from dropbox into your server, that'd be awesome
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Schnitz
ah I see
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Schnitz
interesting...
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Vendan
if you are just looking at a "serve up contents of dropbox folder as a website", that'd actually be really easy to do
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Schnitz
Vendan thats exactly what I'm looking for
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tantek
Vendan I'm not sure I'd agree with "really easy" as it seems that was the goal of pancake.io yet they apparently ran into numerous challenges.
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tantek
perhaps we have different understanding of "really easy"
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Schnitz
as side note on pancake.io, my test ran well for like an hour again, then I made one change to my index.html, as suddently it failed: http://raketenbasis.pancakeapps.com/
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Vendan
they seem to be doing much more then just "expose directory as website"
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Schnitz
thats the problem, also
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Vendan
there's a web editor, there's static site generation
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Vendan
and honestly, there's the issue of load
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Schnitz
I think what I wanted to get at is ... author a good and clean indie web single index.html web site for my fellow musicians friends band acts, and if you something like pancake.io would work out of the box, and they had their little website then going for free, I know they would be exciting *enough* that they might learn a little bit of HTML...
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Vendan
make something that's free and anyone on the internet can hit it, and it's going to die quickly
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Schnitz
pancake.io is not the way, for sure
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gRegorLove
What is Pistachio?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Pistachio" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DP
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Vendan
Schnitz, question would be, how many of these "friends" do you have?
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Schnitz
oh just a few
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Schnitz
maybe 5-10
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Vendan
and would you be willing to throw $5 a month at it?
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tantek.com
edited /projects (+1886) "Other projects, Ask Questions - two easy questions to ask about any project before taking it seriously"
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Schnitz
Vendan, as it stands, probably yes :-)
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gRegorLove
Hm, can't remember the name of the service, thought it was pistachio, for hosting via Dropbox
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Vendan
honestly, unless you get insane amounts of traffic, or they start doing a lot of large file stuff like audio, a $5 droplet or whatever could do way more then 5~10
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Vendan
the other side of it is, do you even need dropbox at that point, or is dropbox the hook for getting them to be able to edit the site easily?
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gRegorLove
What is Postachio?
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Loqi
Postach.io is a static site generator powered by Evernote https://indiewebcamp.com/postachio
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Schnitz
Vendan dropbox is the hook... my social marketing plan, so to speak
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gRegorLove
Guess it's only Evernote, not Dropbox
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Vendan
so basically, what you need is a linux dropbox api client that can handle multiple api connections simultaneously, updating files on disk so a webserver can serve them
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tantek
Schnitz: perhaps add a short paragraph about your experience
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Schnitz
tantek on the new pancake.io wiiki page?
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gRegorLove
Wonder if it'd be possible with BitTorrent Sync
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tantek.com
edited /pancake.io (+280) "shorten dfn para, add IndieWeb Experience section with Schnitz"
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Vendan
gRegorLove, there's a bunch of things that could do it
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Vendan
issue is user comfort levels
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Vendan
and if they are already on dropbox...
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Schnitz
got it will do now
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Schnitz
Vendan right!
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tantek
oh hey HWC DC should be going on soon!
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tantek
jgarber - how's HWC DC?
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tantek
!tell jgarber how long have you been using FrancisCMS on sixtwothree.org? since what date? do you have a "first post" of that sort you could link to?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Vendan
Next question is, how comfortable are you with linux itself, Schnitz?
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Schnitz
Vendan: sorry, no :-)
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Schnitz
I'm just a ubuntu
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Schnitz
sometimes I go into terminal mode
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Schnitz
but thats it
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Vendan
nothing wrong with ubuntu, but yeah
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Schnitz
ubuntu user
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Vendan
most servers don't have a desktop ui at all :D
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Schnitz
of course
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Schnitz
and thats how it should be
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Vendan
I've got 1 or 2 that do, but that's mostly cause you need an X server running for gpu hash cracking
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Vendan
due to arcane X/GPU interactions
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Vendan
that aren't worth the effort to try to fix
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+114) "another rsvp from eventbrite"
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[shaners]
Anything for me, Loqi?
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ben_thatmustbeme
With all the rsvps via eventbrite, i wonder if we should draft up some email we can send out to guests before IWC to set their expectations and point them in the right direction on some things, like getting a URL
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belp.audio
edited /pancake.io (+273) "/* Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer */"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: good q. anything about that in the /IndieWebCamps page? e.g. how to run one?
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: i wondered about that at IWC SF too, a ton of people only rsvped via eventbrite
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aaronpk
I think that would be a good idea
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tantek
Schnitz: to answer your question about how to evaluate projects, I added this: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Other_Projects
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aaronpk
also good to remind people the location and time
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: excellent suggestion, could you add something to this? https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize
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Vendan
nifty, dropbox's api has stuff in place for a really easy "request changes since X"
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kylewm
interestingly, i think we got a lot more non-programmers, but no non-makers, by not having the indieauth technical barrier
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tantek.com
edited /Dropbox (-4) "/* Possibly Abandoned */ link to page not site"
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tantek
kylewm: I think that was directly due to andigalpern's explicit outreach
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tantek
as in I think she did a very curated outreach effort based on her CascadeSF and UXNight communities
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kylewm
Vendan: it's quite old now, but https://github.com/kylewm/pelican-dropblog/blob/master/dropblog.py#L33 has an example of synching a dropbox directory with python
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kylewm
andigalpern++
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Loqi
andigalpern has 1 karma
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tantek
andigalpern++ whoa
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Loqi
andigalpern has 2 karma
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cweiske
My blog's search engine has date sort now: http://search.cweiske.de/?q=indieweb&sort=date
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kylewm
maybe that's' not her handle
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kylewm
andicascadesf++
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Loqi
andicascadesf has 4 karma
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belp.audio
edited /pancake.io (+194) "/* belp.audio's user experience */"
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tantek
cweiske++ that is awesome!
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Loqi
cweiske has 43 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: I'll certainly add something there, especially if I get some idea on what exactly to send out.
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ben_thatmustbeme
or rather get something going for others to use
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ben_thatmustbeme
we haven't talked about who is doing what for IWC MIT yet
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Schnitz
tantek added Ask Questions right away to my experience repost on pancake.io :-) good job
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ben_thatmustbeme
I have been doing as much recruiting as I can in what time i have
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Vendan
kylewm, yeah, I wouldn't use python, but yeah, dropbox sync seems pretty simple
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Vendan
even with a less "magic" language like Go, it'd probably only be about 20~30 lines to implement a sync
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Vendan
with the library support I'm seeing
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Schnitz
having dinner, be back in 1h
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Vendan
then it'd just be serving those files up
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tantek.com
moved /pancake.io to /Pancake.io "project capitalizes their own name"
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Vendan
honestly, with Go and some liberties as to config file based setup of the sync's, it'd be like 60 lines to have a dropbox backed webserver
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kylewm
Vendan, oh yeah! I don't know why I was thinking you were a python person
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Vendan
give me static-typing any day
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tantek.com
edited /Instagram (+198) "/* Features */ person-tags, notifications"
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu some examples of multiple photos being tiled in Instagram's notifications UI, might be useful: https://indiewebcamp.com/notifications#Instagram
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jkphl.is
edited /logo (+399) "/* Adopt {{shaners}}'s proposal */"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Nucleus (+237) "/* Development */ Latest: re-opened"
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tantek
hmm I think I agree with jkphl
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jkphl
hi all! is there already something like a consensus on adopting shaners new logo draft? we are currently doing the final layout of a print article and could / would include it if ready and adopted. would need to finalize until sunday ...
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tantek
given those choices, the lower left of https://slack-files.com/T03QR2B2T-F0LFT9G3T-fe40b97474 looks best, and better than the one embedded on the wiki
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tantek
jkphl: I proposed to aaronpk that perhaps any logo change could be done / announced at/for the IndieWeb Summit in June
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tantek
and that until then, we stick with existing logo for everything
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tantek
but that's just my opinion / suggestion, I don't know how eagerly anyone else wants to adopt / change logos
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tantek
June will be ~five years since we held the first IndieWebCamp
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tantek
so it also marks a good time for a logo refresh
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tantek
perhaps I'll add that as a topic for discussion
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jkphl
tantek: i'd be fine with that as well. i was just thinking that a print product would probably last for some time, so if there's already a consensus, i should take the chance. ;)
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tantek
jkphl: it sounds like there are different opinions on some of the variants - like the good point you made
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tantek
funny, I have a thought of print products being more ephemeral
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tantek
while things get archived in archive.org forever :)
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jkphl
tantek: haha! valid point.
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gregorlove.com
edited /projects (+61) "/* Nucleus CMS */ Clarifying former usage"
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[kevinmarks]
I like that logo variant too
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tantek.com
edited /logo (+415) "/* Discussion */ Logo change at IndieWeb Summit 2016, similar reaction to jkphl"
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[kevinmarks]
Also, I wonder if known would work for Schnitz
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gRegorLove
tantek: /Nucleus isn't quite "take a chance" but I would advise caution in using it. Not sure if there's a place for that on /projects, or just note it on /Nucleus.
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jgarber_
tantek: I thought I'd noted that somewhere on the wiki… Looks like I didn't. sixtwothree.org has been running on FrancisCMS since 2016-01-14 and I've been meaning to write a post ever since. Hoping to work on that at HWC DC tonight!
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gRegorLove
I updated /projects to reflect I don't use it and a short caution against using it.
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Loqi
jgarber_: tantek left you a message 28 minutes ago: how long have you been using FrancisCMS on sixtwothree.org? since what date? do you have a "first post" of that sort you could link to? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455137725244
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[kevinmarks]
It has audio hosting and POSSE to soundcloud
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jkphl
btw. i just got this message from the the opensuse spokesman who also arranged the sponsoring for our nuremberg camp: "Hi Joschi. We are going to have our openSUSE Conference in Nuremberg in June. It would be great to have IndieWeb there." - whatever this means ... i'll find out.
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tantek
jkphl: if the timing works you could do a simultaneous location with the IndieWeb Summit
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jgarber
tantek: I'll update the wiki with dates.
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gRegorLove
Nucleus development is re-opened (publicly), though github makes it look like it's just one person. And that's after the project page had a sunset message on it for 1.5 years.
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tantek
jgarber: thanks!
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tantek
gRegorLove: is anyone in the IndieWeb community actively using Nucleus on their personal site?
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[kevinmarks]
Though he said he'd like a waveform display like soundcloud does
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gRegorLove
tantek: Not that I know of.
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tantek
that's pretty much the bar for "Take a Chance"
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gRegorLove
So guess I could just remove it from /projects altogether.
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gRegorLove
/Nucleus already lists my former usage.
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gRegorLove
And /projects is already Too Dang Long. :)
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sixtwothree.org
edited /projects (+15) "/* FrancisCMS */ Add since date for sixtwothree.org"
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tantek
gRegorLove: that's because it's still a work in progress
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gRegorLove
I know. Not a complaint
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tantek
you can leave it in the https://indiewebcamp.com/Projects#Under_Construction section, we'll get to it
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tantek
eventually
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tantek
there's far more abandoned stuff there than that
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sixtwothree.org
edited /FrancisCMS (+16) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add since date for sixtwothree.org"
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tantek
and as noted re: /Pancake.io, we should document things that are abandoned too as warnings for folks looking for info about projects
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gRegorLove
Sounds good
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jkphl
tantek: unfortunately, dates don't seem to match: https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16
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tantek
btw - gRegorLove kylewm etc please feel free to critique the methodology here and tell me what I'm missing etc.: https://indiewebcamp.com/Projects#Ask_Questions
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tantek
jkphl: are they already sponsoring IWC Nürnberg in April?
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jkphl
yep. platinum level. ;)
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tantek
maybe they want your help with running a one-day IWC adjacent to the OpenSUSE conf?
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tantek
that could be cool too.
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tantek
IWC SF 2015 was one-day only yet very productive! (especially adjacent to W3C Social Web WG f2f)
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jkphl
absolutely. i'd be open for it! it's really awesome to have them. they're originally nuremberg based and one of the oldest and biggest linux distro providers here in germany, which is quite a nice match i think.
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
so in that case
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tantek
what is openSUSE?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "openSUSE" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DQ
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tantek
jkphl: ^^^ perhaps you could document that?
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tantek
aaronpk: my rainbow "elsewhere" has totally grown on me, have you considered it for yours? you have so many more colors!
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jkphl
tantek: sure! will have to post-pone a little, however. it's almost 11 p.m. here and i should leave the office ;) ... openSUSE is their free linux distro. ~25% market share in germany, 14% worldwide.
desttinghim1, olivermakes, jgarber, j12t_, renoirb_, anarchivist_, benwerd, Pierre-O, martinBrown_, Jeena_, kmahan, mattronix_, mcverryj1, arlen, neanias and g3funk joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
Have we documented instagram's api denials?
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tantek
KevinMarks I don't see it, perhaps you or snarfed could stub a subsection on that here? https://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#API
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kylewm
Has anyone tried yet other than snarfed?
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kylewm
Seeming like it might be the end of backfeed from Instagram unless he does something drastic
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tantek
maybe it's time to take my IG private
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Schnitz
kevinmarks I took an in-depth look into known, didn't work for me, sorry
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snarfed
fortunately porting instagram to scraping should be doable (details in issue), so i'm not too worried, just annoyed.
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tantek
snarfed, does ownyourlikes/favorites support IG?
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tantek
is thinking of setting up a Tumblr
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snarfed
tantek: yes, but just likes
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Schnitz
tantek tumblr? really?
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snarfed
and the permission changes will kill that too unless i get it approved, which is unlikely
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tantek
it's a start!
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tantek
is wondering if he can setup ownyourresponses IG -> silo.pub -> Tumblr
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tantek
to at least collect stuff that is otherwise going into the ether
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Schnitz
super interesting
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Schnitz
go for it
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tantek
Schnitz: do you know how to export all likes from IG?
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tantek
like a list of all the photos you've liked?
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Schnitz
kevinmarks I didn't want to sound harsh. I have 100% sympathy for known. I was actually really looking forward to use. I happen to explain to you why I didn't work for me...
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Schnitz
tantek sorry, no
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Schnitz
oh wait
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Schnitz
thinking
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Schnitz
tantek do you mean something like https://www.tumblr.com/liked/by/belporama ? (very personal BTW, don't look, and you need to enable this option internally within tumblr, I have it disabled)
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tantek
Schnitz: no I don't mean liked on Tumblr, I mean posting likes of stuff elsewhere *to* Tumblr just as links
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Schnitz
ah now I see
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (+155) "update my itches list"
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snarfed
what is PESETAS
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Loqi
PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo https://indiewebcamp.com/PESETAS
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tantek
yeah maybe ownyourresponse -> silo.pub -> @t_silos
anarchivist_, shiflett_, adactio_, mattronix, jgarber and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
I'd love to hear why known didn't work, especially if there are fixes that could be made
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Schnitz
kevinmarks nothing too much technically, more of use pattern thing. If this goes too far off-topic here lemme know, happy to move the discussion anytime
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Schnitz
kevinmarks or more the look & feel and how it addresse the user, and how its thought, wasn't for what I was looking at
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Schnitz
kevinmarks looking for a way of using this within my network of people, and therfore the whole approach is too blog-centric
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Schnitz
kevinmarks you shouldn't take that as a issue at all, it just didn't seem to fit 'intended audience-wise'
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gRegorLove
Schnitz: Is bandcamp more the desired UI? (I think you said this is for musicians, right?)
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Schnitz
yes it is, good catch
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Schnitz
I feel kinda stupid because I personally do not care (and can change UIs myself anyways), but the people I'm involved have a certain expectations how things should look & feell, as silly as that is, but thats how it is
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tantek
it's not silly at all
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Schnitz
good :)
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gRegorLove
Makes total sense to me.
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tantek
it's perhaps the biggest challenge that we (IndieWeb) are working on overcoming! (UX in general)
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gRegorLove
What is Bandcamp?
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Schnitz
known from an engine perspective to well address many things I'm looking for right now
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Bandcamp" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DR
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Schnitz
s/to/could
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Loqi
Schnitz meant to say: known from an engine perspective could well address many things I'm looking for right now
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Schnitz
its just the way its designed is that seems to be for some completely different usage
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Schnitz
I wouldn't even argue that running for those ... say 'media' people is really worth it, but, with a different style, it would be attractive for sure
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gRegorLove
Bandcamp is a silo for artists to promote their music, including streaming and customizable pricing for purchasing music http://bandcamp.com
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loqi.me
created /Bandcamp (+167) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455144422394 and dfn added by gRegorLove"
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Schnitz
gregorlove right... now if you could get something like bandcamp or soundcloud to actually POSSE into all the SILOs and be indieweb friendly in itself, that would be huge
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Schnitz
because people do this manually all the time now
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Schnitz
they post a track
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Schnitz
then they notify their followings elsewhere
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Schnitz
in the end they get fed up and write a static web site
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Schnitz
and then thats not being updated
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Schnitz
so there is the mess
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gRegorLove
Yep, I've definitely witnessed a hodge-podge of things from different artists.
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Schnitz
so for KNOWN, for example, everything should be managed conceptually around the media itself. Not so much blogging, but more.. 'I have content - say music / video'... then 'now what do you want to do with it?"...
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Schnitz
known does this already, I know, but the whole idea is more about a continous stream of posting anything to anywhere right now, and the UI is very neutral / clean, thats a bit too broad
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tantek
Schnitz: wait you mean they're not all using /MySpace ? I thought MySpace was *the* place for musicians
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Schnitz
are you kiddin'?
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Schnitz
but you're right myspace did a lot of good things for them in one package and thats gone
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tantek
also re: look & feel, you may be interested in the fact that it's one of our principles: https://indiewebcamp.com/principles##UX+and+design
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Schnitz
the social media part of SC for example is total crap
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Schnitz
tantek right... good
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tantek
Schnitz: note also that our principles go to 11 ;)
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Schnitz
I still haven't abandoned the dropbox hosting approach... interesting looking at the alternatives. both site44 and duet.to do exactly the same thing. Also the same price. Interesting duet.to is from Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), thats amazing
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tantek
hey aaronpk - is anyone else running the new p3k besides you? https://indiewebcamp.com/projects#p3k
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aaronpk
just indiewebcat
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tantek
oh! maybe worth adding there ^^^ ?
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tantek
especially in case people are looking to make a site for their pets
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[kevinmarks]
So known's multiuser hosting isn't a fit?
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Schnitz
kevinmarks not sure what you're getting at
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[kevinmarks]
Wondering if this is something that a theme would fix
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Schnitz
kevinmarks probably would, get rid of the animated robot helping you bit please ;)
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tantek
does indiewebcat POSSE to Catster?
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[kevinmarks]
"kevinmarks looking for a way of using this within my network of people, and therfore the whole approach is too blog-centric" as in they would share a site or want one each?
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tantek
oh wait, I can't find cat profiles on Catster anymore, er or Dogster
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aaronpk
what is Catster?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Catster" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DS
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Schnitz
one each
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tantek
ah they're still there, hidden in "community"
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tantek
Catster is a silo for cats.
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loqi.me
created /Catster (+54) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455145805495 and dfn added by tantek"
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Schnitz
hmmm http://www.site44.com/ seems like 100% commercial pancake.io clone, simply working. One wonders why the pancake.io guys didn't at least try at rally that a bit (adding a pro level or so)
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[kevinmarks]
I bought the domain mixes.house with the vague idea of making a known based site for eg andrewmarks.mixes.house
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tantek
what is indiewebcat?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indiewebcat" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DT
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Schnitz
kevinmarks ... why not, however in terms of music, being house is like a no-go these days
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[kevinmarks]
I'm a known design review right now - back in an hour or so
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aaronparecki.com
created /Template:dora (+142) "indiewebcat template"
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tantek.com
edited /Catster (+96) "expand dfn, e.g., see also indiewebcat"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /projects (+37) "/* p3k */"
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Schnitz
pancake.io is back
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Schnitz
jeeesus
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Schnitz
weirdest service ever, goes offline and online each hour or so...
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[kevinmarks]
Talking to Andrew about it, a lot of the hassle is getting takedowns all over the place
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[kevinmarks]
Are they on free Heroku? That will do that
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Schnitz
kevinmarks not sure
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[shaners]
indiewebcat is Aaron Parecki’s cat, Dora, with her own #indieweb website with [[notes]], [[photos]], [[videos]], and [[weights]]. https://indiewebcat.com
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loqi.me
created /indiewebcat (+182) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455146039237 and dfn added by [shaners]"
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Schnitz
now I understand
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Schnitz
its when you change anything whatever it is, pancake.io breaks
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matrrix
HWC is tonight right?
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matrrix
I guess I am on a thing with a browser....
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tantek
matrrix: yes it is! see /topic :)
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matrrix
http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc says yes so I will try to come back in to sf
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matrrix
Woops there's the sync
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matrrix
tantek: I'll try to make it :)
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tantek
matrrix: great!
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tantek
KevinMarks, hopefully you and the rest of the Known crew can make it too!
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aaronpk
what's the foursquare URL where you can download your ical feed of all your checkins?
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tantek
snarfed: FWIW it looks like this Instagram web client http://energee.net is also having API problems, it's features appear to have all broken
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aaronpk
nope, only mentions the API export
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tantek
goes digging
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snarfed
tantek: interesting! instagram hasn't actually turned off anything yet, though. that's not until june.
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tantek
snarfed, maybe it broke for other reasons, or just mee
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bear
@aaronpk - that kind of stuff I always use http://freemydata.co to re-discover
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Foursquare (+203) "/* Export */"
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aaronpk
oh nice
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bear
and guess who maintains it ... ;)
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snarfed
adorable that ello is on there
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bear
"Brought to you by Known."
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aaronpk
oh at first I was like "oh hey Known is on there!"
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tantek.com
edited /Foursquare (+131) "/* Export */ prefer feeds since they're easier than API"
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aaronpk
"freemyphotos" could be an alternate name for "ownyourgram"
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tantek
what is Free My Data?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Free My Data" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DU
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aaronpk
actually no I need to make it sound more marketingly so that instagram reviewers think of it as a tool for Brands™
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snarfed
#BRANDS
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aaronpk
i should call it #FOTO