#indiewebcamp 2016-02-10

2016-02-10 UTC
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Jeena The more I think a
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Jeena a
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Jeena about it the more I feel that our movement is mostly about freedom
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tantek Jeena - there is no "our" "mostly"
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Jeena and has a lot in common with the free software movement, at least on the philosofical level
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tantek everybody has different reasons. that's why we have /why with various testimonials
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tantek no it has very little to do with free software plumbing
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tantek that's a misconception
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tantek data is orders of magnitude more important than code
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tantek code is ephemeral
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tantek Jeena - perhaps write a blog post about why indieweb is important to *you*, and then we can cite it and add to indiewebcamp.com/why accordingly!
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Jeena yeah but free software is not about code either
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tantek all the free software in the world could disappear tomorrow and we would still be here owning our data
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aaronpk "code is ephemeral" rings so true for me right now, after having just tossed out a bunch of old code
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Jeena it is about user freedom
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tantek Jeena, only for users who can code
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Jeena no
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tantek if you can't code, free software is meaningless
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tantek it's certainly not "free", because you have to pay someone to do something with it
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Jeena that is obviously not true
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tantek also, to be frank, the free software "movement" is very ranty
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tantek witness what happened with Stallman, the 2014 "Indie" Summit, and subsequent anger tweets from ind(.)ie etc.
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Jeena sure
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tantek the primary focus (energy) there is all about tearing down others
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tantek whereas here in indieweb, we focus on building ourselves up
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tantek VERY different
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Jeena So why do you think paying someone to fix your software doesn't make it free? Isn't the freedom there to be able to do that in contrast to that you just can't fix your software because the developer doesn't want you to use it in some specific way?
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tantek paying != free
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Jeena free != gratis
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tantek paying also != freedom
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Jeena wait, what? how do those two relate at all?
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tantek anyway - indieweb is about ownership, not freedom that's the difference
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tantek Jeena, it's like you don't have to be a landowner to vote
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tantek freedom usually means rights you have without having to "pay to play"
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Jeena you still have to pay taxes and stuff
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tantek only on income
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tantek you don't have to pay anything for the bill of rights
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tantek anyway - regardless, go write a post about why indieweb matters to you, whether it is about freedom or anything else you care the most about! that's the point
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tantek the diversity of expression
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tantek and then we can capture that as yet more reasons on /why
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Jeena hehe yeah good idea
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tantek note that there is no "most" or majority reason on /why
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tantek that's my point - why I was disagreeing with you
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tantek about "mostly ... about ... freedom"
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Jeena and I can agree with that
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tantek it's not - as evidenced by what lots of people have said on /why
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tantek this way we also capture your positive motivations and help propagate them
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tantek rather than debate the meaning of freedom :)
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Jeena I was looking at the frontpage of http://indiewebcamp.com/ and the three headlines: Your content is yours, You are better connected and You are in control. All of this souns to me a loot like freedom
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Jeena but I fully agree that my "mostly" and so on was a bit too landgrabby
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Jeena I like the blogpost idea, I still need to sort things out in my head to understand that myself first but I will definatelly write one
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KartikPrabhu reads logs
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KartikPrabhu re: nested comments, not sure salmentions + 2 level nesting limit is compatible
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KartikPrabhu (feel free to ignore below since it is rehashing morning discussion)
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KartikPrabhu A writes a post and B replies to it. When B get a level-2 reply B displays it and sends a "salmention" to A. So for A it is level 3 comment. Is A supposed to ignore the level-3 response?
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aaronpk 2-level nesting isn't about rejecting/ignoring replies deeper than that, it's just they get displayed all in a list under the 1st level
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KartikPrabhu yeah then you lose context of the conversation
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aaronpk you can try it out on facebook. click "reply" to a post and it will nest it under the post. click "reply" on that, and it will nest it. then click "reply" on that one, and it appears directly under it, no longer nested
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aaronpk it's an acceptable loss of precision IMO
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Jeena I agree, tree might visually not be the nicest thing to look at but I haven't found a better representation yet
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: no not about visually good to look at. Nested comments are a UX nightmare
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Jeena one could make subtrees closed and if the user is interested in them they can show them
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KartikPrabhu yeah has been tried and is still a nightmare to click around a whole bunch of trees then getting back to level0 you have to click through again etc...
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aaronpk yup
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Jeena I'm thinking like you browse your filesystem in Finder
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Jeena in this view https://jeena.net/s/latest.png
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KartikPrabhu good luck doing that on small screens ;)
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Jeena finder can do it even on small screens ;)
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aaronpk has never used Finder on a screen smaller than an 11" laptop
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Jeena and I never said it was easy to do :p
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gRegorLove By the time we get to 3-level nested comments, don't we run into the lack-of-comment quality problem? ;)
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aaronpk gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 49 karma
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Jeena hehe
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: on forums yes. But a level-3 on your post might be a level-2 salmention from somewhere else and a level-1 comment some other where
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gRegorLove I meant in most any comments section
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gRegorLove But yes, I'm exaggerating a bit.
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KartikPrabhu on a comment section on one site yes. But if you are doing distributed commenting with "salmention" propagation then not so sure
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aaronpk it's not like people who leave bad comments are thinking "oh this comment is 9 levels deep, I don't need to make it a good one"
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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aaronpk the deeper nested the comment, the less related to the original post it is, so I believe gRegorLove's original hypothesis is true
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KartikPrabhu on a single site/forum the tangential conversations are bad exactly because of loss of context even in a nested tree UX
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: then the logic that if I get a level-3 salmention I should simply display it at level-0 is more problematic
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gRegorLove I thought the suggestion was it go at level-2, like FB does.
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk anyway this is mostly theoretical until someone actually builds this
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: yes and if I get a level-3 salmention propagated comment should I ignore it because it might be bad or accept it and show it as level-1 (which means it is not bad?)
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aaronpk fwiw I am planning on implementing it like Facebook once I start showing comment threads at all, since right now i am only even showing the first level of comment
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: let me find an example for you ;)
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aaronpk i have a counter example already ;)
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gRegorLove Huh? I'm not suggesting rejecting any wm
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aaronpk start here and try to follow the conversation between our sites: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9275/1/54/
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: ok then where do I display the level-3 comment I get through a "salmention"
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: see https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/indieweb-love-blog#httpfacebookcom12802152posts10100836841689469comment_id8603972
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aaronpk it technically goes 6 levels deep
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: Wherever you like. :) If you're making it like FB, it would show up with all the other level-2 responses.
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aaronpk but i want to show the whole conversation as a single thread, since it was just me and wirres.net back and forth a bunch
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: then your logic that level-3 comments are not "quality" does not apply
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gRegorLove Huh?
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gRegorLove You're misunderstanding my jokey comment.
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KartikPrabhu oh ok if that was not meant to be serious then fine
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Jeena I actually really don't like it how facebook does nested comments, it is mostly not usable because they sort them differently for everyone + the not leveling deeper, which creates so much confusion and bad blood because people think someone answered on one thing but they did on something else, etc.
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KartikPrabhu but then my objection is how do I show that the level-3 comment was actually in response to some other comment and not directly to my post
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: yes exactly
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gRegorLove Comment sections generally are trash fires these days. "This is dumb" > "No your dumb" > "It's you're, dummy" etc.
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gRegorLove That's what I was alluding to.
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: i'm saying i don't think it matters at that point. plus you can always click the permalink of the post in question to see exactly what it's in relation to
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KartikPrabhu which is almost as good as not showing "salmention" propagation. If people want see comments on a comment then should simply go to the permalink
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Jeena I learned forums at SELFHTML which had a classic threaded forum, so I am biased, but I think this is good UI, although not nice to look at https://forum.selfhtml.org/self/2016/feb/9/eventlistener-click/1660531 as an example
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aaronpk I disagree: https://twitter.com/nxD4n/status/696988653189525504
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@nxD4n what a PITA to follow #webmention re-replies. Nested comments for everyone ;-) #indieweb @dipix @aaronpk @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/696988653189525504)
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aaronpk but anyway, it's not important until someone actually builds any version of this
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: fixed layout ;)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I already posted an example from Bridgy
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KartikPrabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/indieweb-love-blog#httpfacebookcom12802152posts10100836841689469comment_id8603972
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Jeena and on this forum the > level 3 is trash is really not true, thread drift is encouraged and leads to really good discussions and content.
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: you show nested comments now?
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@devpoga RT @calum_ryan Slides from my talk last night @FrontEndLondon https://calumryan.com/talks/fel-280116/ Thanks to all at FEL Credits to @t, @adactio + #indieweb community (twitter.com/_/status/697221514089754624)
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: that link takes me to the paragraph that starts with "I already have this active on my site!"
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KartikPrabhu wow! broken fragmention.js
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Jeena and KartikPrabhu yes it is fixed for a good reason
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aaronpk ah
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gRegorLove What is nested comments?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "nested comments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DD
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gRegorLove What is threaded comments?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "threaded comments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DE
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gRegorLove What is thread?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "thread" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DF
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: does this work? https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/indieweb-love-blog#There%E2%80%99s%20not%20any%20ONE%20thing
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aaronpk now it put me half way through that paragraph 3
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aaronpk maybe i should remove the plugin from chrome
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aaronpk nope, didn't help
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KartikPrabhu :(
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KartikPrabhu debugging to do
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KartikPrabhu look for the string "if you mark up your"
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aaronpk it appears to be a reply to the thing above it
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KartikPrabhu luckily kylewm's comment webmention arrived precisely after the comment he was replying to otherwise that would have been completely out of context
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aaronpk with 2-level comment threading it would still have looked right
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KartikPrabhu yes. you have shifted my problem to level-3 then ;)
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KartikPrabhu that is what I am saying. I gave a level-1 max example
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aaronpk but i'm saying it doesn't really matter after a point
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aaronpk and i think facebook picked a reasonable level
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KartikPrabhu ok you seem to be fine with max-level = 2 but that is arbitrary
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KartikPrabhu I'll stick with max-level = 1 and no "salmention"
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aaronpk i'm almost certain facebook did some amount of research or experimentation to arrive at that number
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Jeena btw. cjk101010 started writing a microformats2 parser for elixir (which is like ruby but runs on the erlang VM as far as I understand) https://github.com/ckruse/microformats2-elixir
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: feel free to add to the list : http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
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Jeena I guess not yet, he only has implemented rel= stuff yet, I'll wait until more works
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KartikPrabhu you could make a "in development" section
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Jeena I'm not quite comfortable with this, I will tell him to do it if he wants instead
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KartikPrabhu ok
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Jeena hm, https://kartikprabhu.com/ doesn't have a RSS feed and I'm using http://reader.kylewm.com/ just like I used Twitterm as a stream for reading short notes when I'm bored. Longer articles I really like to read in my normal Feedreader.
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: yes no RSS only Atom
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Jeena oh there is a atom feed?
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Jeena ah, all the way down there is a link
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KartikPrabhu Yes URL in the footer, it is markedup correctly too
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KevinMarks catches up on the comment discussion
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: maybe your reader does not parse spaced rel values like rel="feed alternate"
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Jeena have you been thinking also using something like that <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Blog" href="/atom" /> so browsers would show it in their UI?
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KevinMarks the facebook example isn't right, because that is a silo and so can show all comments
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KevinMarks a better example is facebook comments backfed onto a post, that come from multiple people sharing the articel on fb
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: no. not using hidden meta stuff for these things
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Jeena I mostly don't search for a link in the content, I kind of assume that if my browser can't find and show it I will not either
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: that is the example I gave
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: I don't like hidden meta stuff so not going to happen on my site sorry
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KartikPrabhu except for using <a> instead of <link> all my markup is correct
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Jeena but yeah I agree that your markup with the type= and rel= and everything should be enough for my browser
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Jeena I'm using a addon in firefox for that, perhaps I could fix it myself if the code is free, I'll have a look
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KevinMarks https://developers.facebook.com/docs/plugins/comments
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@Sneakyness is indieauth dying? I can’t log in to snack overflow (twitter.com/_/status/697226544645828609)
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KartikPrabhu errr... i didn't know "snack overflow" supported in indeauth?
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aaronpk via openid
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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aaronpk let's see if this works
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aaronpk oops! the twitter reply ID didn't get set https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/697226881561546752
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@aaronpk @Sneakyness no, but OpenID is dying, which is what Stack Overflow uses. It's been getting less and less reliable :-( (twitter.com/_/status/697226881561546752)
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KevinMarks facebook's comments plugin sorts by who you know as well as by time
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snarfed aaronpk: you're using silo.pub for posse now?
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KevinMarks look at the FB comments on, say, http://www.buzzfeed.com/benrosen/how-to-snapchat-like-the-teens
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@benborges_ now .@politwoops just need to integrate #indieweb onsite to be able to aggregate social media interactions around a particular deleted tweet (twitter.com/_/status/697233287518015488)
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Jeena interesting, it seems that I have always misused rel="alternative" http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home#use_with_rel-alternate
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Jeena rel=alternate I mean
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Jeena and as far as I can see Firefox has a bug which can be seen with KartikPrabhu's HTML not using <link> but just <a>
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KartikPrabhu is it FF or the plugin?
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Jeena it seems to be Firefox, which has the functionality of the button also under the Menu -> Bookmarks -> Subscribe to this page ...
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Jeena I didn't quite understand the plugins code but it seems it just uses the FireFox implementation of the discovery
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Jeena and KartikPrabhu after everything I read it looks like that you should use rel="alternate home" not rel="alternate feed" even though I think all the explanations are quite wage on why and it doesn't quite fit your and mine use of it where we want to link to different feeds for articles and notes, and not to a website-feed
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KartikPrabhu possibly
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[shaners] Loqi, messages?
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Jeena KartikPrabhu your website is now as an example in the Firefox Bugtracker ;) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247143
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KartikPrabhu sure :)
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KartikPrabhu I am sure they are going to complain that I should use <link> or my markup is wrong
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Jeena hehe I tried to make this not possible by linking to your homepage which is allowed to have rel=alternate instead of home and by linking to their own developer pages where they describe how and why to use <a> instead of <link>
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KartikPrabhu aaha! nice
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kylewm aaronpk: silo.pub didn't get an "in-reply-to" parameter when you published that tweet
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aaronpk kylewm: oh yeah didn't mean to suggest that was silo.pub's fault
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aaronpk i probably just forgot to add that to my code
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aaronpk (which is a benefit of bridgy's method, since the in-reply-to url is on the page, bridgy can find it with no extra work on my part)
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aaronpk reads silo.pub docs
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aaronpk submits pull request with typo fixes
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aaronpk ...if i could figure out how any python projects are laid out
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aaronpk kylewm: what does silo.pub do with unrecognized parameters in a request?
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aaronpk huh it just occurred to me that I can add both bridgy publish *and* silo.pub as syndication options in my site, and use each one separately when I want
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aaronpk woohoo silo.pub fix deployed!
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aaronpk (i mean fix on my site for silo.pub)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I was afraid that you got pro-efficient in python and might out-perform all of us but... phew!
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aaronpk ha yeah
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aaronpk not at all
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aaronpk RWAR AT TWITTER MODALS
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KartikPrabhu RAWR!
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aaronpk if I click a permalink it should at least pushstate my browser so the URL changes
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KartikPrabhu it loads (some of) the background page before the modal slowing down the load time a lot
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aaronpk ugh
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@aaronpk @Sneakyness Change your openid.server to https://openid.indieauth.com/openid and it should be more reliable (twitter.com/_/status/697279428267606016)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: for in twitter permalinks it does no?
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aaronpk i dunno. i was on my "notifications" page (to reply to that tweet) and it didn't do it
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KartikPrabhu huh weird! on the "modal" permalink page it does seem to work on FF
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aaronpk temporary glitch?
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aaronpk all I know is I clicked the date on the tweet, clicked my browser bookmarklet to reply to the tweet, which prefills the in-reply-to field of Quill, and it was not the permalink
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KartikPrabhu weird... in actual browser-based browsing it seems to work. Just clicked around my notification page
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aaronpk maybe i clicked too fast
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah, it changes URL state after the modal loads
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[kevinmarks] A thought - does u-featured imply use cover and u-photo imply use contain?
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/697276513540919298
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@kevinmarks @margarita @xor @washingtonpost why the hell does @twitter use cover rather than contain for images? Bonkers. @Stammy (twitter.com/_/status/697276513540919298)
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: no those are purely presentational aspect
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: also "contain" is hard to do with multiple images which Twitter supports. Of course it could do contain on single images and cover on others
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KartikPrabhu hard to do wrt "pretty" layout
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk evening!
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KartikPrabhu evening
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[kevinmarks] Twitter has been getting it badly wrong for ages though
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tantek no idea what this featured vs contains vs ccover images thing means KevinMarks - this is getting too abstract for me
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tantek Loqi?
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Loqi yo
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tantek that's odd, my "no idea ..." apparently went to the Slack bridge but not to the logs?!?
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tantek because KevinMarks responded to it: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455087230445
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tantek wat the wat
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tantek how is that out of order?!?
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cweiske it isn't, it's the same here in my irc client
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tantek ok my misinterpretation
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KartikPrabhu wait how is that a response to "no idea... " ?
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KartikPrabhu it is out of order in the logs too if that is a response...
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tantek I still don't understand featured vs cover vs contains images
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as cweiske pointed out, it's not out of order, I misinterpreted KevinMarks's statement as response to me when it was a response to something earlier
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KartikPrabhu tantek: cover/contain are the terminology in the background image positioning stuff.
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tantek oh *that* cover / contain (object-fit)
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KartikPrabhu yes
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tantek ok nevermind.
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KartikPrabhu as I replied that is a presentation issue not of microformats
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tantek in other news, speaking of threading, looks like Twitter is now showing quoted tweets as replies in threads!
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/t/status/225102430981988354
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@t avoid tco fuglifier: • becomes . in SMS. A # prefix stops tco yet syndicates (e.g. FB) autolink: #http://tantek.com (ttk.me t4Jx2) (twitter.com/_/status/225102430981988354)
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tantek scroll to the bottom and see that the last reply is actually a quote of the tweet which looks quite odd presentationally I must say
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KartikPrabhu oh!
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tantek no wait
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tantek I'm confusing a nested image for a quoted tweet
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tantek sheesh
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tantek that's pretty hilarious though
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KartikPrabhu oh hmm yeah that is an image
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KartikPrabhu wonder why that image was put in that reply
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tantek you can fake a quoted tweet by posting a screenshot of a tweet!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: presumably the tweet reply author added it
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KartikPrabhu yeah which seems like a strange practice to me
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[kevinmarks] because they were showing what got hotlinked?
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[kevinmarks] so, what I was getting at is that twitter often crops images badly
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[kevinmarks] and inconsistently between clients
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[kevinmarks] and it is using CSS cover to do this
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[kevinmarks] and it struck me that there are images you do want this for like header images
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[kevinmarks] and those you don't (images of text particularly)
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tantek Twitter image embedding is really bad.
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tantek you have to click like 3 times to see images
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[kevinmarks] and they often get smaller
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tantek what are these, images for ANTS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "these, images for ANTS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DG
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[kevinmarks] they should look at shape of image
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[kevinmarks] if it's wide, do a max-width on it
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tantek 😂😂😂😂😂
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[kevinmarks] if it's tall, maybe crop it
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tantek KevinMarks: or just reverse engineer what FB does
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tantek seriously this is not rocket science
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[kevinmarks] if you can OCR text from it, don't crop it
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@diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/697321574001565696)
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Loqi [indieweb] "pubsubhubbub" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/0/
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@AdelaideSeoSA RT diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/697322074109566976)
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@briandfunes https://twitter.com/AdelaideSeoSA/status/697322074109566976 RT diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb … (twitter.com/_/status/697322265055268864)
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KartikPrabhu errr image layout/cropping is not easy... silos might be able to do it with some image processing AI type tools but i don't know anyone who does it on thir site
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tantek KartikPrabhu: works fine for me :P
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tantek check tantek.com stream e.g. on mobile or desktop, then permalinks
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KartikPrabhu are you processing images in any way?
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tantek no need
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KartikPrabhu yeah good luck placing images with different heights next to each other
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tantek hah - who cares about doing that?
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KartikPrabhu Twitter with multiple photo posts
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tantek what is a multiple photo?
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KartikPrabhu and I do too so I had to "discover" flexbox hack for it
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "multiple photo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DH
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tantek what is a multi-photo?
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Loqi A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indiewebcamp.com/multi-photo
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tantek multiple photo is /multi-photo
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loqi.me created /multiple_photo (+24) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-09/line/1455089675488 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu "tiled/arranged in some layout"
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@kaffeeringe RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/697322909497495552)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: still not a problem
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tantek examples from /mult-photo
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tantek http://tantek.com/2015/352/t1/building-lights-clouds-heels-cab
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tantek and http://tantek.com/2015/352/t2/freedom-tower-np-nyc-winter
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KartikPrabhu you are placing them stacked, that is not what I asked for
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tantek step 1, be lazy and design the minimal thing that works and works well on mobile, AKA single column
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KartikPrabhu if you don't care about placing them side-by-side sure
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KartikPrabhu step 2?
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tantek step 2, stop futzing around with the feature and go implement a different feature instead
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tantek works for Instagram, works for me
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KartikPrabhu eh... I care about my image layouts so I did it
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tantek or rather, see how IG does the 3 columns across grid layout of images on someone's profile
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tantek that seems to work fine
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KartikPrabhu I mean your response is "I don't care about this problem" which is OK
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KartikPrabhu but others (like me) care about layout images differently
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KartikPrabhu s/layout/laying out
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: but others (like me) care about laying out images differently
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@MazonasDon RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/697324125572964352)
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[kevinmarks] That's where you make the easy layout, then call masonry to tile them up
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[kevinmarks] Like http://www.pestagram.com/
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KartikPrabhu solving layout problems with JS :(
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KartikPrabhu I used masonry on my old site and it is annoying
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KartikPrabhu still up at http://paralleltransport.blogspot.com/
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KartikPrabhu see how crappy that looks
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[kevinmarks] Looks ok, but your new site is nicer
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[kevinmarks] This is odd https://tonicdev.com/docs/endpoint
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Loqi [mention] Malcolm Blaney posted "feed discovery #indieweb" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-02-10-feed_discovery_indieweb that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com and https://indiewebcamp.com/feed_discovery https://webmention.io/notification/JVvG3uME4QZjR25szQsR5A
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Kongaloosh Jammy_Stuff++
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Loqi Jammy_Stuff has 2 karma
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@INC_says #film #feature #shortfilm #indieweb #fanfilm #documentary #indiefilm #video we are interested. https://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/ (twitter.com/_/status/697388256388734977)
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Phyks hey, just wondering, have you ever heard about people willing to implement basic ideas behind indiewebcamp to some entirely different domains? (thinking in scientific publication for instance)
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petermolnar Phyks withknown.com as far as can recall was made to bring indieweb to education
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Phyks petermolnar: yes, remember having heard of such things at a withknown presentation @Mozilla Paris last year
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Phyks actually, I am working with some friends on open access policies and related stuff around scientific publications (not sure how familiar people on this chan are with these things)
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Phyks and a recent discussion reminded me some ideas from indiewebcamp, especially concerning webmentions, mf2 etc
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petermolnar anything particular?
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GWG petermolnar, I am still working on the Indieweb plugin. Wanted to ask you about it
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petermolnar sure, hit me
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GWG What would make you use it?
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GWG I intend to use it on my site when I feel it is ready.
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petermolnar at this very moment, I really don't need it as I have most of my needs covered; I know it's against selfdogfooding, especially that I triggered some changes in it
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petermolnar however, if I get rid of some stuff, like the extension of the author fields, it'd make good use
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GWG Well, the problem always comes with how a project satisfies differing needs.
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GWG Petermolnar, why do you have use all features?
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petermolnar GWG sorry, your question doesn't really make sense to make, can you please rephrase it?
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GWG You said you wanted to get rid of some of the h-card fields. Why do you have to use that feature if you want to generate your own h-card?
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petermolnar I meant that I have them right now, as part of my author settings of my theme
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petermolnar I'd have to get rid of those
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petermolnar in order to make use of the indieweb plugin :)
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GWG Oh.
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GWG I intend to remove things from my existing infrastructure as well.
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GWG And I intend to have filters for customization.
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GWG I am not trying to tell people how things should look, just provide a baseline.
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GWG The advantage of a Newcomer being able to add relme and a simple h-card to any site should encourage adoption.
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@deande RT @diplix in 3 minuten im google-index, dank #pubsubhubbub: http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ #seo #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/697431305114488833)
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ben_thatmustbeme wow, ANOTHER RSVP from eventbrite
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+122) (view diff)
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Phyks petermolnar: nothing really specific in the short term, but there seem to be some similar problematics
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Phyks In particular, there are many (decentralized) repos to post open access scientific papers and this raises concerns about indexing and archiving them (there are some people at archive.org working on this for instance)
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Phyks I was thinking in webmentions particularly, which could be another and more modern way of referencing previous works
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olivermak.es created /Template:oliverpattison (+121) "add icon and name" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "pubsubhubbub" by ix@wirres.net (felix schwenzel) http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/
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Loqi [mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ commented 'und dein Artikel erscheint sofort in #indiewebcamp IRC auch durch die PubSubHubb...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455120342094 (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/10/6/)
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aaronpk mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut
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aaronpk !tell tantek it looks like Google is still using pubsubhubbub to get things into the index quickly http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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olivermak.es created /User:Olivermak.es (+809) "write profile" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ commented 'Yeah, I need to update webmention.io to fully implement the http://indiewebcamp....' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/10/7/)
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olivermak.es edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (+21) "adding oliverpattison" (view diff)
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@olivermakes @jgarber Just RSVP’d on the IndieWebCamp site – thanks! (twitter.com/_/status/697460884650594305)
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olivermak.es edited /User:Olivermak.es (+49) "update /* Projects */" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "A short note about web standards from your friends at Known" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/a-short-note-about-web-standards-from-your-friends-at
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Loqi [indieweb] "Self-hosted Known 0.8.5 has left the building - with better indieweb, micropub and AMP support." by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/self-hosted-known-085-has-left-the-building---with-better
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Loqi [indieweb] "Why we built Known" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2015/why-we-built-known
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kylewm those grep.io results are interesting
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kylewm all over the place time-wise
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aaronpk it's just superfeedr now actually, no grep.io
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kylewm can y'all think of any sites that have a good "notifications" page? all that's coming to mind for me is github and twitter
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aaronpk I don't actually find the github notifications very useful
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tantek kylewm: if you see a github notifications example you like, could you screenshot it and add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/notifications#Silo_Examples
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 4 minutes ago: it looks like Google is still using pubsubhubbub to get things into the index quickly http://wirres.net/article/articleview/9291/1/6/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455121122698
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kylewm aaronpk: yes I agree github's aren't very useful
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bear I prefer the github notifications page over scanning my email for events
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Schnitz pancake.io is sooo great...
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kylewm you asked for it...
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kylewm what is pancake.io?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DJ
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tantek aaronpk: looks like they (Google) fixed it. appears to show recent results now for my site-specific search box
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tantek Schnitz: why?
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk always fun to google sentences from your recent posts to see where they end up https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Made+my+own+a%C3%A7ai+bowl+this+morning%22
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kylewm tantek: thanks for the subtle nudge to check /notifications :)
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Schnitz tantek for people with a non-technical background its great entry into indie web to make them use dropbox to get started with their first own self-authored web site
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tantek kylewm: ;)
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tantek Schnitz: does it actually produce HTML? or is it one of those trendy client-side JS only things?
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Schnitz thats the good part, instead of DropPages, which sucks since its just giving you some weird CMS trying to generate stuff, pancake.io does NOTHING, gives you a folder, you put in your on HTML
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Schnitz http://raketenbasis.pancakeapps.com/
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Schnitz Just a test, sorry for the mess :-)
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Schnitz this is out of my dropbox
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Schnitz via pancake.io
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Schnitz took me 2mins to set up
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kylewm.com uploaded /File:2016-02-10-GitHub-notifications.png "Screenshot of GitHub notifications page"
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Schnitz well nothing was bit premature, there a two JS scripts being added. Need to check whether thats in any way problematic, but otherwise it seems straight-forward...
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kylewm.com edited /notification (+549) "/* Github */" (view diff)
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@tedcurran Could Gigabit Internet Lead to a More Decentralized #Web? #indieweb @acedtect @notpatrick http://tedcurran.net/?p=7259 https://twitter.com/tedcurran/status/697482168541454336/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/697482168541454336)
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petermolnar emoji/reacji question: is anyone aware of a unicode-emoji downgrader to old ascii versions?
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singpolyma petermolnar: you mean to :smile: and similar, or to :) ?
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petermolnar 😄 => :D
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singpolyma https://github.com/Genshin/PhantomOpenEmoji/blob/master/poe.json
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petermolnar nice
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petermolnar thanks
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aaronpk awesome
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petermolnar although this table might be more useful for my needs: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29488143/is-there-an-equivalence-table-to-convert-ascii-smileys-to-unicode-emojis
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singpolyma that table seems to have more emoticons in it,
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petermolnar I just need to reverse it
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olivermakes where does loqi pull [indieweb] links from?
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kylewm olivermakes: from a superfeedr tracker feed
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olivermakes neat! thanks
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snarfed speaking of superfeedr, aaronpk have you seen a successful telegraph /superfeedr notif go through yet?
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snarfed just curious
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Loqi [indieweb] "How the Signals used by Capitalist Supply Chains could serve a Mutual Coordination Economy" by Stacco Troncoso http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-signals-used-by-capitalist-supply-chains-could-serve-a-mutual-coordination-economy/2016/02/10
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adactio.com edited /events/2016-02-10-homebrew-website-club (-14) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "How the Signals used by Capitalist Supply Chains could serve a Mutual Coordination Economy" by Stacco Troncoso http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/P2pFoundation/~3/x099ythvd4I/10
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aaronpk snarfed: yeah i've been getting them from wirres.net!
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Schnitz need to revoke my enthusiasm for pancake.io
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Schnitz seems like a abandoned project and its super buddy. I crashed and I can't get it to work again
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snarfed aaronpk: cool! so decoding json and returning 200 made it happy?
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Schnitz s/buddy/buggy
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Loqi Schnitz meant to say: seems like a abandoned project and its super buggy. I crashed and I can't get it to work again
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aaronpk yea although I am still getting some empty requests, and not sure if i'm not decoding them properly or if they really are empty
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Schnitz great idea, just not being maintained / not stable enough... just lost quite some time unfortunately
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tantek Schnitz did the creators of pancake.io run it on their own sites?
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Schnitz yes I think so... it takes it from dropbox.com but relays it thru *subdomain*.pancakeapps.com
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tantek do you know who the creators are and what their site URLs are?
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Schnitz tantek oh you mean whether they were dogfeeding?
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tantek selfdogfooding in particular, using their online *selves* to dogfood it
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Schnitz right lemmecheck
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Schnitz problem is, all Twitter / GitHub postings from pancake.io stop somehwere 2014(!)
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Schnitz https://github.com/orgs/pancakeio/people LOL
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tantek I wonder what caused the pancakeiocalypse
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Schnitz its a real pitty... just a great idea, really!
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tantek a good idea maybe. can't really qualify it as "great" until the creators put their own identity and selves behind it.
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Schnitz I've actually sent an email(!) now to support@pancake.io
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Schnitz tantek: fully agreed!
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snarfed Schnitz: that's fairly common for github orgs. it often (always?) defaults org memberships to private. kinda annoying.
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Schnitz snarfed ah ok thanks for that, didn't know, good to know
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Schnitz the problem with such things is that it would really get people trying to move to something indieweb frustrated, 'cos the system pancake.io just fails in between by itself, and I know its them, but someone with less background won't know and get frustrated real fast. So as it stands we should really take off pancake.io from the WIKI
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tantek where is it on the wiki?
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tantek we should not take it off. we should document its failure
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Loqi definitely
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GWG Afternoon
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Schnitz checking
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kylewm Schnitz: previous markbox dot io was trying to do much the same thing
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kylewm previously*
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Schnitz tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox -> Services
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tantek Schnitz: looks like someone is paying attention to the Twitter at least: https://twitter.com/pancakeio/status/656555829819150336
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@pancakeio @graedotme Active-ish: bugs get fixed but feature development is slow (twitter.com/_/status/656555829819150336)
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Schnitz right
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[kevinmarks] Heh re emoji. I did a partial one in this talk
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[kevinmarks] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TS6gPswxSzOB55IJ3dSV3cnjzsHE3np7qlWeJN4OWF0/edit?usp=docslist_api
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Schnitz wow now its working again
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Schnitz jesus
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Schnitz http://raketenbasis.pancakeapps.com/
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@djgrahamj RT @tedcurran Could Gigabit Internet Lead to a More Decentralized #Web? #indieweb @acedtect @notpatrick http://tedcurran.net/?p=7259 https://twitter.com/tedcurran/status/697482168541454336/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/697507133890424837)
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Schnitz is now quite unsure how to judge such a service that seems abandoned and 'flickers' between functioning and disfunctional with regards to the Wiki and promoting to other people or using it at all
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tantek Schnitz: ask the same questions I asked you above
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tantek.com edited /Dropbox (+389) "pancake.io possibly abandoned" (view diff)
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Schnitz right I didn't find the people behind so I can't tell whether they're dogfeeding it
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tantek that first part is a very bad sign and you can stop there and ignore it
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tantek no humans = it will lose organizational momentum at some point and die
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tantek same problem with IPFS for example
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Schnitz alright, I agree with you tantek, very good update of the wiki, that seems sensible and correct to me now
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tantek Schnitz: if you like you can create a whole separate page for pancake.io so that it shows up better in search results!
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tantek e.g. click on this
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tantek what is Pancake.io?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DK
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Schnitz lol :-) no worries I'm not too much in bashing mode today, that will be fine :)
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tantek The key here is not to "bash" but rather to document cold hard facts that can help new folks avoid trying unstable, buggy, fragile, or unreliable things
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tantek e.g. this is not bashing IMO - just the facts: https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox#Possibly_Abandoned
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Schnitz sure I agree.
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tantek and that's actually key, because no need to be harsher than that on something which is not doing well
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tantek it's possible that it's creators may re-emerge, and then it will help that any such documentation is purely factual. because then they can edit it once they have changed the circumstances.
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Schnitz a whole page might just be a little too much attention, it being located where it is in the wiki seems the right level of awareness for this project
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tantek instead of debating opinions
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tantek how much time did you spend on setting up and debugging your pancake.io?
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Schnitz 1 hour at least
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Schnitz before the sure it was not 'my' fault
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Schnitz s/the/being
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Loqi Schnitz meant to say: before being sure it was not 'my' fault
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tantek if you put it on a separate page, you might save some number of new folks that "1 hour"
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Schnitz I would want to wait at least a bit whether or not I get something back via email from support@pancake.io
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tantek good call
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Schnitz you know me tantek, I'm too nice :-)
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tantek it's a false nice I'm sorry to say, because you are not being nice to all the new people who might discover it and waste another hour
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Schnitz fully agreed
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Schnitz but the documentation on the wiki in sufficient now, no?
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tantek no it is not very discoverable
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Schnitz does an additional page really add that much benefit from keeping people away from this (potential) trap?
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Schnitz I learned about pancake.io exactly from that spot on the wiki where it now says possibly abandoned
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Schnitz so if this change had already been made, I wouldn't have dealt with pancake.io
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tantek true - it might have helped for your particular discovery path
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Schnitz ah I see
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tantek however if someone simply googles for pancake.io
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Schnitz ok you convinced me
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Schnitz what is pancake.io?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pancake.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DL
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tantek.com edited /IPFS (+563) "expand dfn, no human names, no evidence of self-dogfooding = risky, experimental at best" (view diff)
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sknebel it seems like their main page is actually served from IPFS via a web gateway
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belp.audio created /pancake.io (+1027) "Created page with "=Pancake.Io= pancake.io is a service that turns your dropbox into a web hosting service. While the idea seems good and the implemenation (mostly) straight-forward, we currently ..."" (view diff)
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Schnitz hmmm bummer, looking thru the alteratives now, they either cost money or don't allow just pussing thru a HTML file as-is http://alternativeto.net/software/pancake-io/
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tantek.com edited /projects (+609) "add Take A Chance category after Get Inspired for projects in personal-site-use by people in the community, but not by the creators/developers, note FrancisCMS is selfdogfooded as is WordPress! Update Known description a bit" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /pancake.io (+110) "stub, dfn, sections, formatting" (view diff)
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@mathpunk @tinysubversions @jkriss @harper I'm slogging up the ux hill making a site with http://indiewebcamp.com principles (twitter.com/_/status/697518472415170560)
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Schnitz gRegorLove: thx so much!
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kylewm Schnitz: what is your goal with publishiing via Dropbox?
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Schnitz kylewm educating my fellow music people about indie web
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Schnitz (which I'm not gonna do now of course)
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Schnitz all of my music people have dropbox with lots of music
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Schnitz giving me a way of making that be a (indieweb) site as well, simply, *might* be a good way forward
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Schnitz but as it stands now, no
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Vendan Schnitz, a $5 a month DO droplet can serve up quite a bit of traffic with no issue
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Schnitz Vendan good point, was checking the zero-money options first, tho
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Vendan it's going to be hard to find something that is going to be ok with a large amount of outgoing without being paid
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Schnitz Vendan fully agreed
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Schnitz however the people I'm targetting are victims of the silos era
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Schnitz everything free
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Schnitz its a problem
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Schnitz I personally am with you, of course
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Vendan meh, that's a problem of education, really
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Vendan nothing is free
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Schnitz absolutely!
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Vendan you just pay the cost another way
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Schnitz yup
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Schnitz but this is whats driving people into SoundCloud, etc.
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Vendan which has it's own limits on length and such
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Schnitz yes absolutely and this totally bongkers
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Schnitz cause then they DO pay
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Vendan personally, if I ever offered an online service, it'd be strictly as "you pay for what you use" kinda thing
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Vendan not specifically rationing out data and such
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kylewm Schnitz: this is something where i think the tilde.club stuff is interesting. you could set up the server and offer to host your friends' stuff on it
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Vendan but you'd pay to store your data in my "silo"
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kylewm and absolutely not open to just any random person
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Schnitz kylewm: this is news, pls. expand!
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Vendan lol, tilde.club is a standard linux/unix box with user accounts and such
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kylewm yeah :)
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Vendan and a web server set to serve up from each user's home directory
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Schnitz Vendan: I get you, I just now my folks, and they won't something working before they pay, or don't even have to pay anytime soon
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tantek alright, let's see who is feeling in a defining mood today (gRegorLove ?)
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tantek what is decentralized?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "decentralized" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DM
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tantek what is distributed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "distributed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DN
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Vendan it's neat, but really more towards a unix/linux centric user
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Schnitz right
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Schnitz I use Ubuntu
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gRegorLove Not it
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gRegorLove :)
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Schnitz that should say everything .-)
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Vendan Schnitz, my other thing is I try to write stuff as a wordpress-like "here's the multi-user server, here's the single user server"
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aaronparecki.com edited /IPFS (+130) "link to events" (view diff)
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kylewm yes I agree, I was more thinking about the tilde club idea of multiple people sharing one server. if you wanted to run a little script that copies documents from html into your server, that'd be awesome
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kylewm s/html/dropbox
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Vendan and you can switch between them on demand
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: yes I agree, I was more thinking about the tilde club idea of multiple people sharing one server. if you wanted to run a little script that copies documents from dropbox into your server, that'd be awesome
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Schnitz ah I see
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Schnitz 'k
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Schnitz interesting...
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Vendan if you are just looking at a "serve up contents of dropbox folder as a website", that'd actually be really easy to do
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Schnitz Vendan thats exactly what I'm looking for
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tantek Vendan I'm not sure I'd agree with "really easy" as it seems that was the goal of pancake.io yet they apparently ran into numerous challenges.
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tantek perhaps we have different understanding of "really easy"
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Schnitz as side note on pancake.io, my test ran well for like an hour again, then I made one change to my index.html, as suddently it failed: http://raketenbasis.pancakeapps.com/
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Vendan they seem to be doing much more then just "expose directory as website"
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Schnitz true
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Schnitz thats the problem, also
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Vendan there's a web editor, there's static site generation
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Vendan and honestly, there's the issue of load
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Schnitz I think what I wanted to get at is ... author a good and clean indie web single index.html web site for my fellow musicians friends band acts, and if you something like pancake.io would work out of the box, and they had their little website then going for free, I know they would be exciting *enough* that they might learn a little bit of HTML...
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Vendan make something that's free and anyone on the internet can hit it, and it's going to die quickly
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Schnitz pancake.io is not the way, for sure
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gRegorLove What is Pistachio?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Pistachio" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DP
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Vendan Schnitz, question would be, how many of these "friends" do you have?
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Schnitz oh just a few
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Schnitz maybe 5-10
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Vendan and would you be willing to throw $5 a month at it?
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tantek.com edited /projects (+1886) "Other projects, Ask Questions - two easy questions to ask about any project before taking it seriously" (view diff)
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Schnitz Vendan, as it stands, probably yes :-)
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gRegorLove Hm, can't remember the name of the service, thought it was pistachio, for hosting via Dropbox
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Vendan honestly, unless you get insane amounts of traffic, or they start doing a lot of large file stuff like audio, a $5 droplet or whatever could do way more then 5~10
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Vendan the other side of it is, do you even need dropbox at that point, or is dropbox the hook for getting them to be able to edit the site easily?
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gRegorLove What is Postachio?
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Loqi Postach.io is a static site generator powered by Evernote https://indiewebcamp.com/postachio
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Schnitz Vendan dropbox is the hook... my social marketing plan, so to speak
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gRegorLove Guess it's only Evernote, not Dropbox
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Schnitz right
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Vendan so basically, what you need is a linux dropbox api client that can handle multiple api connections simultaneously, updating files on disk so a webserver can serve them
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tantek Schnitz: perhaps add a short paragraph about your experience
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Schnitz tantek on the new pancake.io wiiki page?
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gRegorLove Wonder if it'd be possible with BitTorrent Sync
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tantek.com edited /pancake.io (+280) "shorten dfn para, add IndieWeb Experience section with Schnitz" (view diff)
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Vendan gRegorLove, there's a bunch of things that could do it
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Vendan issue is user comfort levels
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tantek.com edited /pancake.io (+1) "=" (view diff)
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Vendan and if they are already on dropbox...
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tantek Schnitz: yes: https://indiewebcamp.com/pancake.io#Sebastian_Schnitzenbaumer
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Schnitz got it will do now
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Schnitz Vendan right!
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tantek oh hey HWC DC should be going on soon!
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tantek jgarber - how's HWC DC?
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tantek !tell jgarber how long have you been using FrancisCMS on sixtwothree.org? since what date? do you have a "first post" of that sort you could link to?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Vendan Next question is, how comfortable are you with linux itself, Schnitz?
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Schnitz Vendan: sorry, no :-)
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Schnitz I'm just a ubuntu
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Schnitz sometimes I go into terminal mode
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Schnitz but thats it
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Vendan nothing wrong with ubuntu, but yeah
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Schnitz ubuntu user
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Vendan most servers don't have a desktop ui at all :D
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Schnitz of course
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Schnitz and thats how it should be
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Vendan I've got 1 or 2 that do, but that's mostly cause you need an X server running for gpu hash cracking
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Vendan due to arcane X/GPU interactions
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Vendan that aren't worth the effort to try to fix
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+114) "another rsvp from eventbrite" (view diff)
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[shaners] Anything for me, Loqi?
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ben_thatmustbeme With all the rsvps via eventbrite, i wonder if we should draft up some email we can send out to guests before IWC to set their expectations and point them in the right direction on some things, like getting a URL
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belp.audio edited /pancake.io (+273) "/* Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer */" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: good q. anything about that in the /IndieWebCamps page? e.g. how to run one?
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: i wondered about that at IWC SF too, a ton of people only rsvped via eventbrite
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aaronpk I think that would be a good idea
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tantek Schnitz: to answer your question about how to evaluate projects, I added this: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Other_Projects
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aaronpk also good to remind people the location and time
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: excellent suggestion, could you add something to this? https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize
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tantek Schnitz: in particular: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Ask_Questions
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Vendan nifty, dropbox's api has stuff in place for a really easy "request changes since X"
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kylewm interestingly, i think we got a lot more non-programmers, but no non-makers, by not having the indieauth technical barrier
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tantek.com edited /Dropbox (-4) "/* Possibly Abandoned */ link to page not site" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: I think that was directly due to andigalpern's explicit outreach
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tantek as in I think she did a very curated outreach effort based on her CascadeSF and UXNight communities
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kylewm Vendan: it's quite old now, but https://github.com/kylewm/pelican-dropblog/blob/master/dropblog.py#L33 has an example of synching a dropbox directory with python
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kylewm andigalpern++
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Loqi andigalpern has 1 karma
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tantek andigalpern++ whoa
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Loqi andigalpern has 2 karma
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cweiske My blog's search engine has date sort now: http://search.cweiske.de/?q=indieweb&sort=date
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kylewm maybe that's' not her handle
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kylewm andicascadesf++
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Loqi andicascadesf has 4 karma
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belp.audio edited /pancake.io (+194) "/* belp.audio's user experience */" (view diff)
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tantek cweiske++ that is awesome!
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Loqi cweiske has 43 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I'll certainly add something there, especially if I get some idea on what exactly to send out.
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather get something going for others to use
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ben_thatmustbeme we haven't talked about who is doing what for IWC MIT yet
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Schnitz tantek added Ask Questions right away to my experience repost on pancake.io :-) good job
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ben_thatmustbeme I have been doing as much recruiting as I can in what time i have
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Vendan kylewm, yeah, I wouldn't use python, but yeah, dropbox sync seems pretty simple
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Vendan even with a less "magic" language like Go, it'd probably only be about 20~30 lines to implement a sync
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Vendan with the library support I'm seeing
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Schnitz having dinner, be back in 1h
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Vendan then it'd just be serving those files up
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tantek.com moved /pancake.io to /Pancake.io "project capitalizes their own name"
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Vendan honestly, with Go and some liberties as to config file based setup of the sync's, it'd be like 60 lines to have a dropbox backed webserver
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kylewm Vendan, oh yeah! I don't know why I was thinking you were a python person
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Vendan rofl
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Vendan give me static-typing any day
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+198) "/* Features */ person-tags, notifications" (view diff)
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu some examples of multiple photos being tiled in Instagram's notifications UI, might be useful: https://indiewebcamp.com/notifications#Instagram
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jkphl.is edited /logo (+399) "/* Adopt {{shaners}}'s proposal */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Nucleus (+237) "/* Development */ Latest: re-opened" (view diff)
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tantek hmm I think I agree with jkphl
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jkphl hi all! is there already something like a consensus on adopting shaners new logo draft? we are currently doing the final layout of a print article and could / would include it if ready and adopted. would need to finalize until sunday ...
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tantek given those choices, the lower left of https://slack-files.com/T03QR2B2T-F0LFT9G3T-fe40b97474 looks best, and better than the one embedded on the wiki
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tantek jkphl: I proposed to aaronpk that perhaps any logo change could be done / announced at/for the IndieWeb Summit in June
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tantek and that until then, we stick with existing logo for everything
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tantek but that's just my opinion / suggestion, I don't know how eagerly anyone else wants to adopt / change logos
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tantek June will be ~five years since we held the first IndieWebCamp
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tantek so it also marks a good time for a logo refresh
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tantek perhaps I'll add that as a topic for discussion
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jkphl tantek: i'd be fine with that as well. i was just thinking that a print product would probably last for some time, so if there's already a consensus, i should take the chance. ;)
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tantek jkphl: it sounds like there are different opinions on some of the variants - like the good point you made
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tantek funny, I have a thought of print products being more ephemeral
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tantek while things get archived in archive.org forever :)
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@ebookrealm RT Creating A Realistic Language for Your #Fantasy Novel http://selfpublishingadvice.org/writing-how-to-create-a-language-for-a-fantasy-novel-world/ by HollowLandsBook via IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/mischievousmali/status/697525733451632640 (twitter.com/_/status/697530735444566016)
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jkphl tantek: haha! valid point.
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gregorlove.com edited /projects (+61) "/* Nucleus CMS */ Clarifying former usage" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I like that logo variant too
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tantek.com edited /logo (+415) "/* Discussion */ Logo change at IndieWeb Summit 2016, similar reaction to jkphl" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Also, I wonder if known would work for Schnitz
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tantek Thoughts? https://indiewebcamp.com/logo#Logo_change_at_IndieWeb_Summit_2016
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gRegorLove tantek: /Nucleus isn't quite "take a chance" but I would advise caution in using it. Not sure if there's a place for that on /projects, or just note it on /Nucleus.
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jgarber_ tantek: I thought I'd noted that somewhere on the wiki… Looks like I didn't. sixtwothree.org has been running on FrancisCMS since 2016-01-14 and I've been meaning to write a post ever since. Hoping to work on that at HWC DC tonight!
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gRegorLove I updated /projects to reflect I don't use it and a short caution against using it.
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Loqi jgarber_: tantek left you a message 28 minutes ago: how long have you been using FrancisCMS on sixtwothree.org? since what date? do you have a "first post" of that sort you could link to? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455137725244
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[kevinmarks] It has audio hosting and POSSE to soundcloud
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jkphl btw. i just got this message from the the opensuse spokesman who also arranged the sponsoring for our nuremberg camp: "Hi Joschi. We are going to have our openSUSE Conference in Nuremberg in June. It would be great to have IndieWeb there." - whatever this means ... i'll find out.
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[kevinmarks] Andrew uses it http://www.andrewmarks.media/content/audio/
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tantek jkphl: if the timing works you could do a simultaneous location with the IndieWeb Summit
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jgarber tantek: I'll update the wiki with dates.
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gRegorLove Nucleus development is re-opened (publicly), though github makes it look like it's just one person. And that's after the project page had a sunset message on it for 1.5 years.
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tantek jgarber: thanks!
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tantek gRegorLove: is anyone in the IndieWeb community actively using Nucleus on their personal site?
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[kevinmarks] Though he said he'd like a waveform display like soundcloud does
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gRegorLove tantek: Not that I know of.
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tantek that's pretty much the bar for "Take a Chance"
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gRegorLove So guess I could just remove it from /projects altogether.
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gRegorLove /Nucleus already lists my former usage.
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gRegorLove And /projects is already Too Dang Long. :)
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sixtwothree.org edited /projects (+15) "/* FrancisCMS */ Add since date for sixtwothree.org" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove: that's because it's still a work in progress
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gRegorLove I know. Not a complaint
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tantek you can leave it in the https://indiewebcamp.com/Projects#Under_Construction section, we'll get to it
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tantek eventually
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tantek there's far more abandoned stuff there than that
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sixtwothree.org edited /FrancisCMS (+16) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add since date for sixtwothree.org" (view diff)
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tantek and as noted re: /Pancake.io, we should document things that are abandoned too as warnings for folks looking for info about projects
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gRegorLove Sounds good
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jkphl tantek: unfortunately, dates don't seem to match: https://events.opensuse.org/conference/oSC16
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tantek btw - gRegorLove kylewm etc please feel free to critique the methodology here and tell me what I'm missing etc.: https://indiewebcamp.com/Projects#Ask_Questions
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tantek jkphl: are they already sponsoring IWC Nürnberg in April?
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jkphl yep. platinum level. ;)
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tantek nice
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tantek maybe they want your help with running a one-day IWC adjacent to the OpenSUSE conf?
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tantek that could be cool too.
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tantek IWC SF 2015 was one-day only yet very productive! (especially adjacent to W3C Social Web WG f2f)
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jkphl absolutely. i'd be open for it! it's really awesome to have them. they're originally nuremberg based and one of the oldest and biggest linux distro providers here in germany, which is quite a nice match i think.
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tantek indeed
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tantek so in that case
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tantek what is openSUSE?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "openSUSE" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DQ
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tantek jkphl: ^^^ perhaps you could document that?
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tantek aaronpk: my rainbow "elsewhere" has totally grown on me, have you considered it for yours? you have so many more colors!
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jkphl tantek: sure! will have to post-pone a little, however. it's almost 11 p.m. here and i should leave the office ;) ... openSUSE is their free linux distro. ~25% market share in germany, 14% worldwide.
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[kevinmarks] Have we documented instagram's api denials?
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tantek KevinMarks I don't see it, perhaps you or snarfed could stub a subsection on that here? https://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#API
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kylewm Has anyone tried yet other than snarfed?
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kylewm Seeming like it might be the end of backfeed from Instagram unless he does something drastic
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tantek maybe it's time to take my IG private
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Schnitz kevinmarks I took an in-depth look into known, didn't work for me, sorry
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603
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snarfed fortunately porting instagram to scraping should be doable (details in issue), so i'm not too worried, just annoyed.
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tantek snarfed, does ownyourlikes/favorites support IG?
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tantek is thinking of setting up a Tumblr
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snarfed tantek: yes, but just likes
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourresponses#instagram
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Schnitz tantek tumblr? really?
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snarfed and the permission changes will kill that too unless i get it approved, which is unlikely
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tantek it's a start!
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tantek is wondering if he can setup ownyourresponses IG -> silo.pub -> Tumblr
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Schnitz ahaaa
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tantek to at least collect stuff that is otherwise going into the ether
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Schnitz right
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Schnitz super interesting
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Schnitz go for it
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tantek Schnitz: do you know how to export all likes from IG?
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tantek like a list of all the photos you've liked?
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Schnitz kevinmarks I didn't want to sound harsh. I have 100% sympathy for known. I was actually really looking forward to use. I happen to explain to you why I didn't work for me...
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Schnitz tantek sorry, no
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@Inkwater_Masha 11 #Author Website Must Have Elements #indieauth #amwriting http://www.yourwriterplatform.com/author-website-elements/?platform=hootsuite (twitter.com/_/status/697543151284789248)
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Schnitz oh wait
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Schnitz thinking
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Schnitz tantek do you mean something like https://www.tumblr.com/liked/by/belporama ? (very personal BTW, don't look, and you need to enable this option internally within tumblr, I have it disabled)
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tantek Schnitz: no I don't mean liked on Tumblr, I mean posting likes of stuff elsewhere *to* Tumblr just as links
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Schnitz ah now I see
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+155) "update my itches list" (view diff)
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snarfed what is PESETAS
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Loqi PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo https://indiewebcamp.com/PESETAS
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tantek yeah maybe ownyourresponse -> silo.pub -> @t_silos
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[kevinmarks] I'd love to hear why known didn't work, especially if there are fixes that could be made
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Schnitz kevinmarks nothing too much technically, more of use pattern thing. If this goes too far off-topic here lemme know, happy to move the discussion anytime
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Schnitz kevinmarks or more the look & feel and how it addresse the user, and how its thought, wasn't for what I was looking at
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Schnitz kevinmarks looking for a way of using this within my network of people, and therfore the whole approach is too blog-centric
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Schnitz kevinmarks you shouldn't take that as a issue at all, it just didn't seem to fit 'intended audience-wise'
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gRegorLove Schnitz: Is bandcamp more the desired UI? (I think you said this is for musicians, right?)
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Schnitz yes it is, good catch
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Schnitz I feel kinda stupid because I personally do not care (and can change UIs myself anyways), but the people I'm involved have a certain expectations how things should look & feell, as silly as that is, but thats how it is
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tantek it's not silly at all
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Schnitz good :)
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gRegorLove Makes total sense to me.
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tantek it's perhaps the biggest challenge that we (IndieWeb) are working on overcoming! (UX in general)
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gRegorLove What is Bandcamp?
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Schnitz known from an engine perspective to well address many things I'm looking for right now
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Bandcamp" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DR
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Schnitz s/to/could
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Loqi Schnitz meant to say: known from an engine perspective could well address many things I'm looking for right now
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Schnitz its just the way its designed is that seems to be for some completely different usage
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Schnitz I wouldn't even argue that running for those ... say 'media' people is really worth it, but, with a different style, it would be attractive for sure
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gRegorLove Bandcamp is a silo for artists to promote their music, including streaming and customizable pricing for purchasing music http://bandcamp.com
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loqi.me created /Bandcamp (+167) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455144422394 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Schnitz gregorlove right... now if you could get something like bandcamp or soundcloud to actually POSSE into all the SILOs and be indieweb friendly in itself, that would be huge
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Schnitz because people do this manually all the time now
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Schnitz they post a track
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Schnitz then they notify their followings elsewhere
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Schnitz in the end they get fed up and write a static web site
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Schnitz and then thats not being updated
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gregorlove.com edited /Bandcamp (+27) (view diff)
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Schnitz so there is the mess
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gRegorLove Yep, I've definitely witnessed a hodge-podge of things from different artists.
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Schnitz right
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Schnitz so for KNOWN, for example, everything should be managed conceptually around the media itself. Not so much blogging, but more.. 'I have content - say music / video'... then 'now what do you want to do with it?"...
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Schnitz known does this already, I know, but the whole idea is more about a continous stream of posting anything to anywhere right now, and the UI is very neutral / clean, thats a bit too broad
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tantek Schnitz: wait you mean they're not all using /MySpace ? I thought MySpace was *the* place for musicians
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Schnitz are you kiddin'?
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tantek ;)
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Schnitz ;)
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Schnitz but you're right myspace did a lot of good things for them in one package and thats gone
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tantek also re: look & feel, you may be interested in the fact that it's one of our principles: https://indiewebcamp.com/principles##UX+and+design
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Schnitz the social media part of SC for example is total crap
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Schnitz tantek right... good
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tantek Schnitz: note also that our principles go to 11 ;)
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Schnitz :)
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Schnitz I still haven't abandoned the dropbox hosting approach... interesting looking at the alternatives. both site44 and duet.to do exactly the same thing. Also the same price. Interesting duet.to is from Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), thats amazing
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tantek hey aaronpk - is anyone else running the new p3k besides you? https://indiewebcamp.com/projects#p3k
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aaronpk just indiewebcat
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tantek oh! maybe worth adding there ^^^ ?
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tantek especially in case people are looking to make a site for their pets
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[kevinmarks] So known's multiuser hosting isn't a fit?
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Schnitz kevinmarks not sure what you're getting at
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[kevinmarks] Wondering if this is something that a theme would fix
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Schnitz kevinmarks probably would, get rid of the animated robot helping you bit please ;)
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tantek does indiewebcat POSSE to Catster?
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Schnitz LOL
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[kevinmarks] "kevinmarks looking for a way of using this within my network of people, and therfore the whole approach is too blog-centric" as in they would share a site or want one each?
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tantek oh wait, I can't find cat profiles on Catster anymore, er or Dogster
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aaronpk what is Catster?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Catster" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DS
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Schnitz one each
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tantek ah they're still there, hidden in "community"
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tantek Catster is a silo for cats.
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loqi.me created /Catster (+54) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455145805495 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Schnitz hmmm http://www.site44.com/ seems like 100% commercial pancake.io clone, simply working. One wonders why the pancake.io guys didn't at least try at rally that a bit (adding a pro level or so)
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[kevinmarks] I bought the domain mixes.house with the vague idea of making a known based site for eg andrewmarks.mixes.house
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tantek what is indiewebcat?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiewebcat" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DT
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Schnitz kevinmarks ... why not, however in terms of music, being house is like a no-go these days
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[kevinmarks] I'm a known design review right now - back in an hour or so
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:dora (+142) "indiewebcat template" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Catster (+96) "expand dfn, e.g., see also indiewebcat" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /projects (+37) "/* p3k */" (view diff)
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Schnitz LOL
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Schnitz pancake.io is back
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Schnitz jeeesus
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Schnitz http://raketenbasis.pancakeapps.com/
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Schnitz weirdest service ever, goes offline and online each hour or so...
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[kevinmarks] Talking to Andrew about it, a lot of the hassle is getting takedowns all over the place
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[kevinmarks] Are they on free Heroku? That will do that
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Schnitz kevinmarks not sure
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[shaners] indiewebcat is Aaron Parecki’s cat, Dora, with her own #indieweb website with [[notes]], [[photos]], [[videos]], and [[weights]]. https://indiewebcat.com
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loqi.me created /indiewebcat (+182) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-10/line/1455146039237 and dfn added by [shaners]" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Schnitz ah ok
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Schnitz now I understand
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Schnitz its when you change anything whatever it is, pancake.io breaks
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matrrix HWC is tonight right?
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matrrix I guess I am on a thing with a browser....
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tantek matrrix: yes it is! see /topic :)
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matrrix http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc says yes so I will try to come back in to sf
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matrrix Woops there's the sync
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matrrix tantek: I'll try to make it :)
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tantek matrrix: great!
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tantek KevinMarks, hopefully you and the rest of the Known crew can make it too!
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aaronpk what's the foursquare URL where you can download your ical feed of all your checkins?
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tantek it's not on /Foursquare?
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tantek snarfed: FWIW it looks like this Instagram web client http://energee.net is also having API problems, it's features appear to have all broken
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aaronpk nope, only mentions the API export
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tantek goes digging
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snarfed tantek: interesting! instagram hasn't actually turned off anything yet, though. that's not until june.
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aaronpk guessed it: https://foursquare.com/feeds/
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tantek snarfed, maybe it broke for other reasons, or just mee
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bear @aaronpk - that kind of stuff I always use http://freemydata.co to re-discover
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aaronparecki.com edited /Foursquare (+203) "/* Export */" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh nice
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bear and guess who maintains it ... ;)
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snarfed adorable that ello is on there
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bear "Brought to you by Known."
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aaronpk oh at first I was like "oh hey Known is on there!"
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bear :)
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tantek.com edited /Foursquare (+131) "/* Export */ prefer feeds since they're easier than API" (view diff)
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aaronpk "freemyphotos" could be an alternate name for "ownyourgram"
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tantek what is Free My Data?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Free My Data" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10DU
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aaronpk actually no I need to make it sound more marketingly so that instagram reviewers think of it as a tool for Brands™
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snarfed #BRANDS
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aaronpk i should call it #FOTO
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Loqi yea