#indiewebcamp 2016-02-13

2016-02-13 UTC
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tbrb tantek: Yup, will get it added to the wiki in the morning, about to head off for the night
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Loqi tbrb: tantek left you a message 36 minutes ago: is there a HWC Edi next week or the week after? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-12/line/1455321069469
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@cstanhope RT @indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-02-12.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/698269114339438592/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/698307954156523520)
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://webmention.io/notification/ZMXKueMqFqQTCUXbcVkyng
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gRegorLove Working with Mediawiki templates can be a pain.
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gRegorLove I just want to be able to inject a class="u-url" on a wiki link to [[page]], but looks like the template will just have to take the full URL and build the link.
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aaronpk "just" and "mediawiki" rarely belong in the same sentence
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gRegorLove Heh, true
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Schnitz wow. The soundcloud might go down link from fact.mag now has 2.2k annotations on tumblr
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Schnitz for tumblr, thats huge
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Schnitz SILO death is affecting people
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Schnitz sc dearth: people ask on tumblr, where should I go then, me: indieweb! they: nah... me: then go home. LOL
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Schnitz it could well be that the upcoming wave of silo deaths will simply drive a lot of people out of the internet and back into reality, some fraction to indieweb
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Loqi [mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week-in-the-indieweb https://webmention.io/notification/Cf2ReDTLgJZ_pkAJ-3A27w
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Loqi [mention] Joschi Kuphal 吉 liked http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week-in-the-indieweb https://webmention.io/notification/9dhJHxQVloCbWh38G3t56w
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Loqi [indieweb] "SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses" http://belp.audio/post/139204500177
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Loqi [indieweb] "grtwhtgrvty:
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Loqi [indieweb] "JAHMONI - Useless Images" http://belp.audio/post/139202407252
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oliverpattison I'm sort of new here – when an article is marked as a stub, how should we go about filling it in if we know things that are missing?
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oliverpattison for example https://indiewebcamp.com/s3
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aaronpk in general, feel free to add to any page
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aaronpk a wiki is always a work in progress :)
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oliverpattison aaronpk, I remember you asked a couple of days ago about AWS ACM certs: I wrote a walkthrough for implementing with static sites https://olivermak.es/2016/01/aws-tls-certificate-with-jekyll/
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aaronpk very cool
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oliverpattison SNI is a pretty big limitation though – if you go HTTPS-only with SNI (the cheap option) Windows XP and Android 2/3 are left out
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aaronpk definitely link that from http://indiewebcamp.com/https
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oliverpattison yep – I'll add it!
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oliverpattison if you don't choose SNI and want HTTPS for even older clients, it's prohibitively expensive for indieweb at $600/month
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oliverpattison or you can go HTTP/HTTPS optional and support all clients
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aaronpk windows XP was EOL almost 2 years ago now so I don't really feel bad about that
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aaronpk https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/end-of-xp-support
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oliverpattison me neither – I go HTTPS-only for now
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oliverpattison but I'm keeping an open mind about it
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aaronpk I always thought amazon's pricing for that was a little nuts
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oliverpattison yes, but it's super-cheap for cloudfront now – pennies really
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oliverpattison and free certs
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aaronpk I thought it was free on cloudfront? I'm running a site there and I haven't paid yet
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aaronpk oops i always get those confused. i meant cloudflare
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oliverpattison ACM part is free, cloudfront is fractions of a penny more if you go HTTPS
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aaronpk alright too many acronyms/jargon. let's see...
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aaronpk what is CloudFront?
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Loqi Cloudfront is the CDN service provided by Amazon, see https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront for more details https://indiewebcamp.com/Cloudfront
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oliverpattison but for a low-traffic site, it's 70 cents per month floor (S3+Route53+CloudFront)
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aaronpk what is CloudFlare?
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Loqi CloudFlare is a service to, in their own words, "supercharge your website" https://indiewebcamp.com/CloudFlare
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aaronpk what is SNI?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SNI" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Dw
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aaronpk what is ACM?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ACM" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Dx
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oliverpattison wow, I can definitely fill in that CloudFront stub
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aaronpk awesome
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aaronpk also feel free to create those other two, just say "ACM is .... "
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oliverpattison I will
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oliverpattison IRC newbie question: how do you get your name hyperlinked properly?
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aaronpk that's an indiewebcamp thing. add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people !
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oliverpattison thanks – that is great
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aaronpk it occurs to me that now that we have people regularly joining the chat from Slack and the indiewebcamp.com web interface, we shouldn't really call this IRC anymore, since IRC is really just thing that broadcasts the messages around
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oliverpattison hm – Slack? where do I sign up for that?
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aaronpk http://slack.indiewebcamp.com/
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oliverpattison nice!
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olivermak.es edited /IRC_People (+101) "/* Nicknames */ adding oliverpattison" (view diff)
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oliverpattison thanks for the help
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oliverpattison I just attended the first DC meeting last week – glad to finally check in here
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aaronpk awesome!
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oliverpattison will be adding more indieweb stuff to my site as I dig in
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oliverpattison thanks for your help – have a good weekend
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aaronpk you too!
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Loqi [mention] Daniel Pietzsch liked https://webmention.io/notification/3VYEG1f_haeqrgx5D_znsg
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[kevinmarks] We could call it webchat with irc and slack mirrors
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[aaronpk] Argh. silo.pub checking for whether the post contains the username being mentioned is case sensitive so it added the capitalized version of the username I replied to and now that tweet looks ridiculous
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[kevinmarks] Normalising to the caps they use on twitter seems a reasonable heuristic
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Loqi [mention] Pelle Wessman liked https://webmention.io/notification/uUpGaB5g9vYFVS81pA5UGA
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[aaronpk] Yeah Twitter usernames are case insensitive
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[aaronpk] Or whatever the name for how the OS X file system works is
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://wirres.net/article/articleview/9315/1/53/ http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/wirres.net/article/articleview/9315/1/53/
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Jeena Do we have an example of a photographer with a indieweb website?
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Schnitz rehi
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petermolnar Schnitz: re "it could well be that the upcoming wave of silo deaths will simply drive a lot of people out of the internet and back into reality, some fraction to indieweb" -> https://petermolnar.eu/exodus/ last paragraph
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Schnitz petermolnar reading...
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Schnitz petermolnar great article, reposting...
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GWG Good morning, all
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olivermak.es created /ACM (+735) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-12/line/1455335785238" (view diff)
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Schnitz mornin' GWG
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[oliverpattison] I think this new ACM page should actually be moved to something like “AWS Certificate Manager” but I don’t know the best practice (new to this wiki) – does that sound right?
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[aaronpk] Yep! Usually better to use the full name for the page and then a redirect for the acronym
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[oliverpattison] good, I’ll move it
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[aaronpk] You can click the "move" button to give it a new na me and it makes the redirect for you
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olivermak.es moved /ACM to /AWS_Certificate_Manager "use most commonly used name instead of acronym"
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@InnovatorsGI Eine schöne Einführung in das Thema #IndieWeb und Einladung zum @indiewebcamp in Nürnberg von @jkphl: http://nueww.de/blog/article/Post/show/indieweb-unsere-daten-unser-netz-96/ (twitter.com/_/status/698537497735925760)
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@INC_says Submit to INC, #indhttps://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/ #indie #indieweb #indiefilm https://twitter.com/INC_says/status/698542820148154368/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/698542820148154368)
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@zpinternational RT @INC_says Submit to INC, #indhttps://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/ #indie #indieweb #indiefilm https://twitter.com/INC_says/status/698542820148154368/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/698545814885392384)
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@ArgonPress RT @INC_says Submit to INC, #indhttps://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/ #indie #indieweb #indiefilm https://twitter.com/INC_says/status/698542820148154368/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/698546149846867968)
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[jgarber] I’m really digging shaners proposed new logo (https://indiewebcamp.com/logo#Proposed_New_Logo). Has there been thought to how that treatment would work as a square icon (for Slack, GitHub, etc.)
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Loqi [jgarber]: tantek left you a message 17 hours, 13 minutes ago: will there be a HWC in DC in 2 weeks? Please add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club#Where ! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-12/line/1455320872341
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sixtwothree.org edited /logo (+17) "/* Adopt {{shaners}}'s proposal */ Add self to supporters of {{shakers}} proposal." (view diff)
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tantek what are settings?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "settings" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Dy
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tantek settings are a common silo feature that allows users to edit various aspects of their profile, including [[security]], [[privacy]], [[block]]ing, [[language]], [[notifications]], etc.
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loqi.me created /settings (+210) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-13/line/1455383335568 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what are preferences?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "preferences" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Dz
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tantek preferences are /settings
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loqi.me created /preferences (+21) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-13/line/1455383478282 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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[shaners] thanks jgarber !
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[jgarber] shaners Not a problem! And apologies for the autocorrect to `{{shakers}}` in that wiki update message. :stuck_out_tongue:
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[shaners] nbd
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[shaners] The Shakers had a pretty righteous design philosophy
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tantek what are publics?
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Loqi publics are the combined set of people who make up the readership or audience of a post https://indiewebcamp.com/publics
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[shaners] Shaker design philosophy
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[shaners] http://veganstraightedge.com/notes/2008/04/18/dont-make-something-unless-it-is-both-necessary-and-useful-shakers
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Loqi [indieweb] "exodus" http://belp.audio/post/139233587992
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[shaners] !tell aaronpk loqi feature request: try to fetch name/contents for pasted URLs like tweet URLs. If there are mf2, give a little preview in the channel. If not, do nothing.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk it's been on my list for a while :)
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[shaners] Oh. Hi! Good morning. :smile:
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aaronpk it will come as part of me adding reply contexts back to my site
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[shaners] Grool
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aaronpk having written code to generate this sort of "link preview" from microformats data a number of times now, I only want to write it one more time and turn it into a service so that I don't have to think about it again
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tantek I think that's on the /Loqi feature request list right?
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Loqi yo
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tantek (or should be)
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tantek aaronpk: do you have a name for link preview as a service?
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aaronpk I think we talked about this the other day? I mentioned "Scribe" but you had some other ideas
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[shaners] aaronpk: when you roll these services, do you also build an underlying package/library that does the core thing? So someone could re-use the functionality in their app without standing up a full service.
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[shaners] I like Scribe for this.
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aaronpk [shaners]: sometimes the service is built on top of a library, but other times it doesn't really make sense to
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[jgarber] Slack refers to this as “unfurling” https://api.slack.com/docs/unfurling
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[shaners] I think T mentioned Monk? Or maybe that was for an archiver?
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[jgarber] Clever pun with “url” in there…
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aaronpk like, not sure how Telegraph would be a library other than the mention-client that it wraps
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aaronpk but yes for this one, I will start by writing a library
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@HKLiftOff RT @INC_says Submit to INC, #indhttps://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/ #indie #indieweb #indiefilm https://twitter.com/INC_says/status/698542820148154368/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/698559209332436994)
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[shaners] jgarber: You may not know that aaronpk has a naming convention for all of his p3k related projects: https://indiewebcamp.com/p3k_naming_convention
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[shaners] aaronpk: :+1::skin-tone-2: makes sense
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Loqi [indieweb] "Submit to INC, #indhttps://independentnetworkchannel.wordpress.com/submissions/" https://twitter.com/INC_says/status/698542820148154368
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aaronpk on a totally different note, I just upgraded a mediawiki install that is older than the indiewebcamp wiki, and it went pretty smoothly
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aaronpk the skin isn't compatible with the new version though
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[jgarber] shaners aaronpk Would "penny-farthing" be too steampunk or just steampunk enough?
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[shaners] I know nothing about steam punk. :shrug:
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aaronpk i'm kind of wondering if it would be a good idea to upgrade the wiki (finally) and switch to the default medaiwiki "vector" skin
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tantek.com edited /settings (+689) "add silo examples, FB settings, privacy in particular, forward link to future section / content" (view diff)
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[shaners] aaronpk: +1
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aaronpk maybe coordinate with the launch of the new logo
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tantek aaronpk: do we know what will break when we do?
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tantek is not a fan of upgrading without being able to easily revert
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tantek has too much experience with upgrades breaking things more often than not
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tantek.com edited /privacy (+2254) "walk down a particular Facebook Privacy settings rabbithole and document breadcrumbs" (view diff)
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tantek shaners I suspect you may have more steampunk intuition than you realize
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tantek is seriously considering switching all past public FB posts to friends-only
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tantek has anyone done this?
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aaronpk of course i'm not gonna do it in a way that isn't irreversible
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tantek It's not a silo-quit, but I do see it as a silo-de-emphasis of sorts, since it's a deliberate limiting of searchability/discoverability of your FB POSSE copies, as well as who can see them by default, past/present/future.
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aaronpk step 1) back everything up. step 2) set up new mediawiki code with a copy of the database. step 3) run the upgrade script, then fiddle with updating extensions and such. step 4) swap domain names to launch the new site
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tantek aaronpk: I'm not sure I care about FB posts not being public, not being reversible.
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tantek Especially since I can still selectively flip posts to public on demand (e.g. as citations for indieweb POSSE examples etc.)
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tantek I have this general feeling that by taking silo profiles private, I am de-emphasizing them for public discovery, and thus shifting that emphasis for public discovery to my own site. That feels like an indieweb step forward.
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aaronpk i was talking about the wiki
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tantek ah right of course
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy.png]]""
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[shaners] you two are like Abbot and Costello
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[shaners] tantek: you’re right. i prolly have picked up some steampunk knowledge by nerd osmosis.
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tantek.com edited /settings (+25) "/* Facebook Privacy */" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-touch-basic.png]]""
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petermolnar tantek I've exported my FB past and manually deleted all of my {posts,likes}, nearly all of my photos, and lots of my comments; whatever was public is public on my site now, the rest is archived; no one will ever scroll back my facebook wall that far anyway, so what's the point?
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tantek petermolnar: interesting, do you do that periodically? or did you close your FB account afterwards?
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petermolnar I'm not liking anything anymore at all; no posting ( I had exceptions POSSEd, they were deleted lately as well )
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-touch-masher.png]]""
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aaronpk hm making everything friends only seems like not a bad idea
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petermolnar for the comments... I hate FB comments but I had to learn that some of my friends "require" it, so I think about them as ephemeral words
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aaronpk i don't think i care about having any public content on facebook, i'd rather direct people to my site who don't know me
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tantek aaronpk: indeed. I'm trying to be very deliberate about it and documenting the steps so others can explore without having to commit (or even have a FB account)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-touch-masher-confirmation.png]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-who-can-expanded.png]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-touch-public-search.png]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-044-facebook-privacy-touch-public-search-confirm.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /privacy (+1571) "/* Facebook */ add a bunch of screenshots, search engines privacy setting" (view diff)
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tantek for anyone interested in privacy / FB settings, please review: https://indiewebcamp.com/privacy#Facebook and see if that makes sense / reads reasonably
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@jkphl RT @InnovatorsGI Eine schöne Einführung in das Thema #IndieWeb und Einladung zum @indiewebcamp in Nürnberg von @jkphl: http://nueww.de/blog/article/Post/show/indieweb-unsere-daten-unser-netz-96/ (twitter.com/_/status/698575045552181249)
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tantek aaronpk, I'm also considering doing the same with Twitter, that is flipping my Twitter to private
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tantek and thus again encouraging new/other people to click on my site in my profile there
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk that feels more drastic than facebook for some reason
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tantek going to think about it today (for both)
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aaronpk i think public twitter still has value to me
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tantek It's more drastic because 1. you can't flip individual tweets to be public, 2. public tweets with hashtags have much more affect/discovery than public FB posts with hashtags
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aaronpk yeah, it's the hashtag thing for me. being able to participate in public discussions that happen on a hashtag
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tantek Except what happens when a public account rewteets a private tweet? Is that even possible?
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tantek Does that make that tweet public?
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aaronpk i totally tested this before but i forgot
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aaronpk but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make it public
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bupkes I believe that you can't do a native RT when the account is locked
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tantek that would be one UI solution yes
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[kevinmarks] That's right, they grey out the retweet button
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[kevinmarks] You can do a manual link post, not sure what it does there
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aaronpk probably just says the tweet is unavailable
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tantek like a quoted tweet?
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bupkes of course people sometimes C+V it and do a manual RT but that is a nasty thing to do.
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[kevinmarks] Or screenshot and post
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bupkes yeah.
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[kevinmarks] It's also a bit odd when you @ reply a private account, as the threading fails for non followers
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[kevinmarks] Eg I can see the thread here https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/697444072642969602
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@maradydd @altquinn "We're a lighthouse. Your call." (twitter.com/_/status/697444072642969602)
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[kevinmarks] But an account that isn't in altquinn's follows can't
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[kevinmarks] It feels odd to reply to private accounts from a public one
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bupkes Agreed. In a way it would seem to make more sense to make meesages from a public account to a private one be private too.
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tantek part of Twitter's limitation that doesn't support per tweet privacy
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tantek today in silo quit considerations: https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/696656959706112000
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@maradydd Considering deleting my @StackOverflow account. Haven't wanted to login in years, and my answers are now being farmed for editing rep. (twitter.com/_/status/696656959706112000)
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tantek what does "being farmed for editing rep" mean though?
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tantek what the what? "edit spam"?!? https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/696657390301790208
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@maradydd @chrylis Sanctimonious edit spam. (twitter.com/_/status/696657390301790208)
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tantek what is Stack Overflow?
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Loqi Stack Overflow is a question and answer silo specifically for programmers https://indiewebcamp.com/Stack_Overflow
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Loqi [indieweb] "Taking part in the IndieWeb" by Calum Ryan https://medium.com/@calumryan/taking-part-in-the-indieweb-79293341b394?source=rss-------1
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Loqi [indieweb] "Taking part in the IndieWeb" by Calum Ryan https://medium.com/@calumryan/taking-part-in-the-indieweb-79293341b394?source=rss------web_development-5
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+407) "Meredith L Patterson considering quitting Stack Overflow" (view diff)
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aaronpk original URL for that post: https://calumryan.com/blog/taking-part-in-the-indieweb/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://calumryan.com/blog/taking-part-in-the-indieweb/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/13/5/) http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/calumryan.com/blog/taking-part-in-the-indieweb/
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[kevinmarks] Stack overflow Gamification naturally attracts people who game it
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tantek what is a fortnight?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fortnight" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10E0
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tantek fortnight is two weeks, the term a shortening of fo(u)rt(een-)night(s); fortnightly means every fortnight, the typical frequency of [[Homebrew Website Club]] meetups. See also [[Events]].
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loqi.me created /fortnight (+214) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-13/line/1455392089124 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek calumryan++
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Loqi calumryan has 1 karma
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aaronpk I realized that since 1999, i've rewritten my site completely almost exactly every 3-4 years
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aaronpk i'm really curious what in 2020 is going to cause me to rewrite this again
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tantek might as well budget time in advance for the next one :)
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tantek aaronpk: I have a feeling. Everything realtime, like as realtime (low latency) as IRC.
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aaronpk interesting
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tantek orders of magnitude change in performance like that usually requires a rewrite / re-architecture
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aaronpk the concept of my home page being a reverse chronological stream of posts was pretty far-fetched back in 2002
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aaronpk until recently, I always had a separate site which was my "blog"
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tantek not at all, blogs (as home pages!) were established back then.
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tantek I myself started blogging in 2002 and thought for sure I was "late" to blogging
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aaronpk aaronparecki.com was always more of a portfolio, or business card
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aaronpk certainly not blog-like content
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+225) "Calum Ryan - Taking part in the IndieWeb" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah i don't mean in general, just the way i thought about my own site was that way
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tantek my home page was a series of CSS experiments for a long time
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aaronpk (tho I did have a mini status update feed on my home page which I could post to via SMS in 2005)
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+3) "/* 2016 */ {{}}" (view diff)
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@benwerd @cleverdevil @withknown That's possibly the easiest (besides the icky option of hardcoding the indieweb reply microformats). (twitter.com/_/status/698607165657878528)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@cleverdevil @withknown That's possibly the easiest (besides the icky option of hardcoding the indieweb reply microformats)." by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/cleverdevil-withknown-thats-possibly-the-easiest-besides-the-icky-option
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@raretrack Got my @withknown hosted on @ReclaimHosting upreved to v0.9.0.4, signed up for #Convoy and now I can #POSSE again :) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/698609390673211392)
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[shaners] tantek: if you’re still interested in text posts about reading books: https://twitter.com/blithe/status/698605025493266432
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@Blithe Finished reading Salvage the Bones: A Novel by Jesmyn Ward http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005IQ2D9W/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_udp_awd_Oi5VwbPBN9JES (twitter.com/_/status/698605025493266432)
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tantek.com edited /read (+332) "/* Silo Examples */ Twitter approximations" (view diff)
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tantek shaners, cool. If you find other such posts on Twitter, feel free to add them to https://indiewebcamp.com/read#Twitter
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[shaners] Maaaaaaybe :wink:
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