#indiewebcamp 2016-02-18

2016-02-18 UTC
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Calli
And what's with rel="facebook" in some of the examples? Do they actually use it?
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KartikPrabhu
errr so you have to publish RSS for some strange reason even though content is from the canonical web URL
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aaronpk
maybe it's the mechanism they use to find new articles?
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KartikPrabhu
yeah because they don't know h-feed ;)
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tantek
perhaps snarfed can teach them about parsing h-feed when he meets with them
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@cleverdevil
RT @withknown Mad props to our shared hosting sponsors @DreamHost, who have an awesome deal right now: https://www.dreamhost.com/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700114832008187905)
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tantek
hey is https://woodwind.xyz/ the canonical URL for Woodwind?
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tantek
should we update /Woodwind accordingly?
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Self-hosted notifications now @withknown - I just love it #indieweb" by Ben Borges http://1-m.cc/2016/self-hosted-notifications-now-withknown---i-just-love-it-indieweb
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Self-hosted notifications now @withknown - I just love it #indieweb" by Ben Borges https://1-m.cc/2016/self-hosted-notifications-now-withknown---i-just-love-it-indieweb
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tantek.com
edited /Woodwind (-5) "woodwind.xyz"
(view diff)
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benwerd
kylewm++ for the aforementioned notification feature :)
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Loqi
kylewm has 295 karma
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tantek
wow that shipped already?!?
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benwerd
well, it's in the repo
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tantek
he was just demoing it last week as a prototype!
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tantek
does that mean web push notifications are coming soon too?
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benwerd
web push notifications (the non-browser-specific kind) are in there
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benwerd
I merged the pull request yesterday
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tantek
amazing
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tantek
did /notifications help at least? like with design etc.?
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benwerd
tantek: kylewm should answer that - I merely merged and gazed in awe :)
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tantek.com
moved /private_account to /private-account "better search URL"
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kylewm
ben did clean up the design and make it look more like a feed (twitter notifications style) rather than the list of boxy notifications that i showed last week
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tantek
nice. does it look good on Known mobile web?
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kylewm
the /notifications page helped in a couple of ways -- useful to look at existing examples, and also hopefully i designed the data structure in a way that clustering will be possible in the future
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tantek
could you add a screenshot perhaps to /notifications ?
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tantek
great!
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kylewm
I will screenshot, but it's not quite ready yet ;)
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kylewm
still some stray bridgy markup in there
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snarfed
the only kind! :P
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Loqi
[indieweb] "@withknown confirmed, staticpage issue fixed : https://1-m.cc/pages/news-dj - thanks a lot for this amazing support responsiveness #indieweb" by Ben Borges https://1-m.cc/2016/withknown-confirmed-staticpage-issue-fixed--mccpagesnews-dj---thanks-a-lot
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Loqi
[indieweb] "@withknown confirmed, staticpage issue fixed : https://1-m.cc/pages/news-dj - thanks a lot for this amazing support responsiveness #indieweb" by Ben Borges http://1-m.cc/2016/withknown-confirmed-staticpage-issue-fixed--mccpagesnews-dj---thanks-a-lot
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Amazed at @withknown ability to fetch reactions from anyone tweeting any of my in-site urls/posts #indieweb" by Ben Borges http://1-m.cc/2016/amazed-at-withknown-ability-to-fetch-reactions-from-anyone-tweeting
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@benborges_
Amazed at @withknown ability to fetch reactions from anyone tweeting any of my in-site urls/posts #indieweb (https://1-m.cc/s/2C00x)
(twitter.com/_/status/700131526646853633)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Amazed at @withknown ability to fetch reactions from anyone tweeting any of my in-site urls/posts #indieweb" by Ben Borges https://1-m.cc/2016/amazed-at-withknown-ability-to-fetch-reactions-from-anyone-tweeting
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@RikMende
RT @withknown Mad props to our shared hosting sponsors @DreamHost, who have an awesome deal right now: https://www.dreamhost.com/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700132825693945857)
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cassie.wtf
edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+269) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web" http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
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tantek
note that Loqi did not mention my POSSE tweet! https://twitter.com/t/status/700145919568687104
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tantek
and didn't have to because he got it from the PuSH network as it were :)
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[kevinmarks]
Well, I can't retweet you
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tantek
what happens if you click the "Tweet" button at the bottom of http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb ?
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@kevinmarks
Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb via @t
(twitter.com/_/status/700151624799358976)
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[kevinmarks]
So that works. Did you leave 6 chars for the via?
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tantek
same as "RT @t: "
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@H4RDNUT8
Tantek Çelik: Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independen… http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700154833630793728)
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tantek
snarfed, btw let me know how Bridgy is doing with the private accounts / posts
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@PlanetFeeds
Tantek Çelik: Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Indepe... http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700174493407248384)
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@benwerd
Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700182890793938944)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/tantek-%c3%a7elik-has-made-his-social-media-profiles-private-now
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@dealingwith
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700183858776403968)
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@energyovertime
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700187720337924097)
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@gravitytrope
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700190901373526017)
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@gravitydrift
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700190916519145472)
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@cstanhope
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700194453567332353)
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tantek
what's that ^^^
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Liked Tantek Çelik's Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/liked-tantek-%c3%a7eliks-going-silo-private-to-prefer-the-indieweb-leave
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Loqi
[indieweb] "[toread] [priv] Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web - Tantek" by maxbarners http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb via @t
(twitter.com/_/status/700224409529774080)
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KevinMarks
after finding 2003 etech predicting slack, I dug out a couple more: http://www.kevinmarks.com/SSABoF.txt
friedcell, Lancey, tantek, marcthiele, nitot, ehlovader, cweiske, KartikPrabhu, j12t and arthurspooner joined the channel
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Loqi
cweiske: kylewm left you a message 11 hours, 48 minutes ago: urls are normalized for video and source tags now, and the base tag should be respected. thanks for the heads up. let me know if it's not working correctly still. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-17/line/1455745965691
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
!tell aaronpk it seems to not do it when I add the http:// before my url myself
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
!tell kylewm poster, source and base href work fine.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske
!tell kylewm I switched to delivering my HTML exclusively as Content-type: application/xhtml+xml, and woodwind now does not find feeds on my page anymore
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks
that's very retro of you
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cweiske
I had a htaccess switch that sent out text/html when the browser did not have application/xhtml+xml in the accept header
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cweiske
because disqus broke with only xml when I tried it in 2013
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cweiske
but now I ditched it, since I don't use disqus anyway
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cweiske
KevinMarks, the main issue is that I mark up my code with CDATA sections, and they don't work in HTML, only in XHTML
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cweiske
btw, monocle copes fine with cdata sections
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cweiske
!tell aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme, kylewm - https://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts lists you as supporting private posts. how do readers get private posts/get authed? Do you give out different feed URLs when people are authed on your page?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks
how do they fail?
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cweiske
cdata start and end sections are ignored
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cweiske
in html
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cweiske
so tags in cdata section are interpreted as html tags
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cweiske
leaving only the text
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KevinMarks
html spec says the need to be inside foreign content https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/syntax.html#syntax-cdata
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KevinMarks
can you wrap them in SVG?
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cweiske
not really
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cweiske
it's in <pre>
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@voycey_web
Reg: Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec prom... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700268730454900736)
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@vaporware
#theregister Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' s... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700268732426223616)
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@mikipanda
RT @voycey_web Reg: Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec prom... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700270711982542848)
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@elpep
Évidemment, le titre est trompeur puisque ça parle des webmentions /cc @franckpaul
(twitter.com/_/status/700271128548401152)
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@a2ztechnews
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700274576366809088)
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michel_v
it's unfair to call the "WordPress' Pingbacks"
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michel_v
they originated outside of any CMS project
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michel_v
it's just that b2 was the first (released) blogware to integrate them
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[kevinmarks]
Who wrote the subhead there?
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Loqi
[indieweb] "My #indieweb site got a brand new @letsencrypt SSL certificate ! Whooo I can finally be part of the secure web!" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/my-indieweb-site-got-a-brand-new-letsencrypt-ssl-certificate
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@RikMende
My #indieweb site got a brand new @letsencrypt SSL certificate ! Whooo I can finally be part of the secure web! (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/my-indieweb-site-got-a-brand-new-letsencrypt-ssl-certificate)
(twitter.com/_/status/700277848980852736)
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@morvjn
RT @RikMende My #indieweb site got a brand new @letsencrypt SSL certificate ! Whooo I can finally be part of the secure web! (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/my-indieweb-site-got-a-brand-new-letsencrypt-ssl-certificate)
(twitter.com/_/status/700278846206144512)
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@vividspirit
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279342417342466)
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@SingaporeITServ
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279344829050880)
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@IndiaITServ
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279348020928512)
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@NiraleeRaval
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279349811875840)
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@UnisonITSupport
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279357462347776)
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@mikaelnt
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700279359404290049)
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kylewm
Weird, a scathing headline on a pretty positive article
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Loqi
kylewm: cweiske left you a message 2 hours, 31 minutes ago: poster, source and base href work fine. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455788559929
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Loqi
kylewm: cweiske left you a message 2 hours, 31 minutes ago: I switched to delivering my HTML exclusively as Content-type: application/xhtml+xml, and woodwind now does not find feeds on my page anymore http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455788598191
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Loqi
kylewm: cweiske left you a message 2 hours, 26 minutes ago: - https://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts lists you as supporting private posts. how do readers get private posts/get authed? Do you give out different feed URLs when people are authed on your page? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455788879341
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@IT_securitynews
Remember WordPress’ Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: ‘Webmentions’ spec… http://itsecuritynews.info/2016/02/18/remember-wordpress-pingbacks-the-w3c-wants-us-to-use-them-across-the-whole-web/ #infosec
(twitter.com/_/status/700299706153484288)
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petermolnar
...aaand we might need to prepare for webmentions spam after this article
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pfefferle
good morning
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petermolnar
hi pfefferle
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pfefferle
hey petermolnar
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petermolnar
!tell tantek how do you calculate reading time on your articles? ( mine is: ceil( str_word_count( strip_tags( $text ), 0 ) / 300 ) but I'm not convinced it's really an accurate value )
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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cjk101010
hm, is there somewhere a microformats2 parser for elixir or erlang?
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cweiske
petermolnar, in which way does seeing the reading time help me?
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cweiske
I'm mostly annoyed when the first paragraph of a post in my feed reader is "3 minutes reading time"
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petermolnar
that is a valid critic
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petermolnar
to be honest, it's just a design feature and now that I think about it, I should probably show the byte length instead :)
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petermolnar
I'm struggling a bit how to show if a thing in my stream has more to offer; the read time is only shown on my articles to differentiate them
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cweiske
"more"?
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petermolnar
unless I make it 3em and pink, it's not visible enough :D
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cweiske
"more" as in a "click here to read more" link?
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petermolnar
I use » at the end of the title; the "click here..." might work, but I do like the x mins to read as a design feature
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@3p_ar
Webmention, a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site #WebDev https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/
(twitter.com/_/status/700337990174793728)
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@i0ewx76
RT 3p_ar Webmention, a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site #WebDev https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/
(twitter.com/_/status/700340319380967425)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Repost of Tantek Çelik's Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/repost-of-tantek-%c3%a7eliks-going-silo-private-to-prefer-the-indieweb
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 6 hours, 31 minutes ago: it seems to not do it when I add the http:// before my url myself http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455788524495
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Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 6 hours, 25 minutes ago: - https://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts lists you as supporting private posts. how do readers get private posts/get authed? Do you give out different feed URLs when people are authed on your page? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455788879341
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aaronpk
I really don't like the "3 minutes reading time" trend
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aaronpk
don't tell me how fast I read
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aaronpk
cweiske: ah yeah that's some over-eager URL correcting happening
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aaronparecki.com
edited /private_posts (+74) "/* {{aaronpk}} */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
that headline is odd
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aaronpk
"'Webmentions' spec promises future linkspam outbreak"
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aaronpk
maybe "acknowledges" would be better?
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petermolnar
aaronpk X characters or Y bytes to read would look better? ( not /s, actual question )
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aaronpk
not really
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aaronpk
assuming the post is all on one page, scroll bar length is a pretty good indicator
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aaronpk
or i just scroll really fast to the bottom and get a sense of how long the post is
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petermolnar
oh, no, I'm referring to the summary entry on a stream to continue to the article
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aaronpk
hm, I think that would only be helpful if every article did it, otherwise "2300 characters" is totally arbitrary and I have no point of reference
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aaronpk
i think akismet thinks bridgy is spam
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petermolnar
that happened before
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aaronpk
wordpress is returning 'Invalid discovery target' for those pingbacks
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aaronpk
which is right after the "'true' == $comment['akismet_result']" line in wordpress
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petermolnar
that won't happen with my alternative plugin
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petermolnar
but that lacks other features :(
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petermolnar
but apart from that, this has to be addressed
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petermolnar
oh, wait, that's pingback & xmlrpc
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petermolnar
interesting
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petermolnar
that pre_check_pingback is a massive overkill
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petermolnar
showing that there are tonnes of pingback spam we probably don't even know about
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aaronpk
oh I know about the tons of pingback spam, believe me :P
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aaronpk
you wouldn't believe the crap that gets thrown at the webmention.io pingback endpoint
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@LinuxNov
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec... http:/// #LinuxNov
(twitter.com/_/status/700365142513442816)
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Loqi
[mention] https://aaronparecki.com/ commented '@heibie There should be a "fix issue" button which magically sorts everything ou...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/18/5/)
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aaronpk
oh darn
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+259) "add theregister article"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
that cover photo tho
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aaronpk
doesn't appear in the actual article, but is in the facebook meta tags
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web • #indieweb #openweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
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@luxagraf
@aaronpk thanks, glad you liked it. Not so sure about the subhead myself, but otherwise
(twitter.com/_/status/700371125704986625)
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aaronpk
oh, yeah, i added some details on the page
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aaronpk
it just sets a session cookie after you identify with indieauth
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aaronpk
i want to do a version where you get a private URL you can add to a reader though
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cweiske
the issue with readers will be that the "subscribe" or "follow me" button only tells the reader the page you are on
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cweiske
and the reader does feed discovery itself
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cweiske
which means that the reader will not see the private feed link
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cweiske
how could we solve this problem?
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aaronpk
yeah i haven't thought about it from the "subscribe" button perspective
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aaronpk
you'd need a way for the reader to include an access token when it fetches the feed
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aaronpk
which means you'd need a way to allow your reader to generate an access token for you
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heibie
hi aaron. thanks for your support on twitter. already tried the "Fix Issue" Button and get the following error message https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/262007/Bildschirmfoto%202016-02-18%20um%2018.33.23.png
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aaronpk
hi heibie! oh yeah, app IDs are global, so you'd need to change that to your own string
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aaronpk
try changing it to use your own domain name
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aaronpk
(that's the "Bundle Identifier" field)
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heibie
ok. i changed it. it seems to work. cool. now i could transfer the app to my phone (after allowing access in iPhone settings for this developer account)
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aaronpk
great!
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[shaners]
What is logo?
#
Loqi
Here are several versions of the IndieWebCamp logo; for a personal logo for your site, see icon https://indiewebcamp.com/logo
#
[shaners]
The logo discussion seems pretty idle. Should we call it?
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[shaners]
(And I’ll start the logotype treatment next week)
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aaronpk
i think we were all in agreement that launching it at IWC Summit would be good
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[shaners]
I thought we were in agreement about launching *some* new logo then, but which version hadn’t been agreed upon yet.
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[shaners]
I only meant, are we in agreement about the most recent logomark iteration?
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aaronpk
i think so!
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GWG
I still find summit an interesting Choice of term
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aaronpk
last week we said we were going to wait another week for feedback i think
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[shaners]
Gotchoo
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[shaners]
Relatedly, do you know the original who designed the Microformats logo?
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[shaners]
that’s a weird sentence
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[shaners]
Relatedly, do you know who designed the original Microformats logo?
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aaronpk
I do not
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[shaners]
!tell tantek who designed the Microformats logo?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@ChrisAldrich
RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/700380206414991360)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web •" https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/700369759796273152
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gRegorLove
Pingbacks by definition are across the whole web. ?
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aaronpk
editors tend to change headlines/taglines of articles like this just before press, often without the input from the author of the post
#
gRegorLove
Starts off rough, but getting a bit better
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gRegorLove
Huh, links to Known, Bridgy, webmention.io, and Vouch.
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gregorlove.com
edited /Webmention (+238) "/* Articles */ The Register article"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
Dan Cederholm designed the microformats logo
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@ChrisAldrich
Going Silo-Private to Prefer the #IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb Thank you @t!
(twitter.com/_/status/700388187265347585)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Going Silo-Private to Prefer the #IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb Thank you @t!" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/going-silo-private-to-prefer-the-indieweb-leave-silo-publics-and
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aaronpk
is submitting things to indienews so they get included in the weekly newsletter tomorrow :)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Going Silo-Private to Prefer the IndieWeb, Leave Silo Publics, and Pioneer Privacy on the Independent Web - Tantek" by Jonathan LaCour http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Awesome post by Tantek Çelik about going all-in on the #IndieWeb." by Jonathan LaCour http://cleverdevil.io/2016/untitled-1
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@cleverdevil
Awesome post by Tantek Çelik about going all-in on the #IndieWeb. (https://cleverdevil.io/2016/untitled-1)
(twitter.com/_/status/700392844750626817)
gRegorLove and [shaners] joined the channel
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[shaners]
kevinmarks: thanks
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KevinMarks
I can't remember when the orange variant used on http://microformats.org/ was made
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cleverdevil
hmm... anyone having trouble signing into monocle?
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aaronpk
i can still sign in. are cookies blocked?
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aaronpk
cleverdevil: ooh what are you using to save screenshots?
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aaronpk
that looks like something that uploads them automatically
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cleverdevil
aaronpk: dropshare, connected to DreamHost DreamObjects.
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cleverdevil
cookies aren't blocked, as far as I can tell.
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cleverdevil
using the latest version of Known.
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cleverdevil
I am able to login to Woodwind.
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cleverdevil
just not Monocle.
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gRegorLove
I got into Monocle OK
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gRegorLove
What is dropshare?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "dropshare" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10EN
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aaronpk
i wonder if we can convince dropshare to support micropub
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cleverdevil
that would be awesome :)
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cleverdevil
also would be good to try to get Ulysses to support Micropub... they already support publishing to Medium.
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aaronpk
i've been looking for a replacement for Skitch for a long time. I was using skitch to upload to my site for a while
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cleverdevil
for me, uploading to an object store that I map via CNAME to my domain is good enough.
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cleverdevil
if I want to post something about it, I can just embed the URI into a post.
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aaronpk
yeah that works pretty well
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cleverdevil
hmm... I wonder if its something with my Known setup.
#
cleverdevil
or with Known in general?
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aaronpk
woo hoo i have my own screenshot URLs again finally
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cleverdevil
Dropshare *rocks*
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kylewm
aaronpk: maybe the issue with urls with a path?
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aaronpk
oh could be. let me see
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@jevdemon
I didn't realize Webmentions were a W3C draft. Nice to see #indieweb on the standards track. https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/
(twitter.com/_/status/700403123236409344)
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kylewm
aaronpk: posse to email with backfeed?? https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/18/11/
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aaronpk
manual til it hurts
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cweiske.de
edited /private_posts (+618) "unsolved issues"
(view diff)
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cweiske.de
edited /private_posts (+234) "/* Unsolved issues */"
(view diff)
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@jevdemon
@clemensv Perhaps. Webmentions are useful for distributed conversations between sites. It can also be used for POSSEing to FB, Twitter, etc
(twitter.com/_/status/700407947302559745)
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davidpea.ch
edited /Planning (+51) "/* Brighton, UK */"
(view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks: what conference was this from? http://www.kevinmarks.com/SSABoF.txt what year?
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Loqi
tantek: petermolnar left you a message 5 hours, 55 minutes ago: how do you calculate reading time on your articles? ( mine is: ceil( str_word_count( strip_tags( $text ), 0 ) / 300 ) but I'm not convinced it's really an accurate value ) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455804782286
#
Loqi
tantek: [shaners] left you a message 2 hours, 6 minutes ago: who designed the Microformats logo? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455818576342
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tantek
!tell shaners @simplebits
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek
!tell shaners it was a back/forth process between me conveying concepts to represent, @simplebits doing design possibilities, sharing them with me, me saying "more like that one", and after a couple of iterations we got pretty close to the current logo, and then he did look/feel/logotype refinements until we got what we have now.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek
that's not a bad article, considering "The Register": www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
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tantek
note how the key points on the home page were digestable by the journalist writing the article, who carried them forth: "One of the core ideas of the IndieWeb is that when you post something on the web, it should be yours. It should not belong – as your Tweets and Facebook posts do – to a corporation."
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tantek
and reference to site-deaths: "Aside from the basic humanist principles of self-reliance, and political notions of property, much of the appeal in avoiding corporate silos is that eventually the companies go out of business and take all your data with them."
#
tantek
this is a really good summary: "This is where the Webmentions come in: the goal is to standardize a way to link together conversations across the web."
#
tantek
Bridgy++ got mentioned! And linked! lookout snarfed and kylewm! You've got press!
#
Loqi
Bridgy has 36 karma
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tantek
actually that's more than not bad, that's a pretty great article
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aaronpk
totally! off to a rough start with the headline and subtitle, but the article itself is good!
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cleverdevil
its excellent, especially considering the audience.
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tantek
aaronpk: yes the headline is link/tweet bait with reference to WordPress and W3C
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aaronpk
it was written by luxagraf, who is on /irc-people
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tantek
and subhead is definitely the fear-jacking approach
#
tantek
headling/subhead is often editor-written, not writer-written
#
tantek
s/headling/headline
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: headline/subhead is often editor-written, not writer-written
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@luxagraf
@aaronpk thanks, glad you liked it. Not so sure about the subhead myself, but otherwise
(twitter.com/_/status/700371125704986625)
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tantek
the subhead is ok because he does mention Vouch (and link to it!)
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tantek
that's a very well linked article
#
tantek
has anyone shown up from The Register article?
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snarfed
small bump in bridgy home page traffic, ~10-20% of total. we'll take it :P
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tantek
!tell petermolnar nothing so scientific. I asked benwerd to read it, timed him, then added 50% ;)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
!tell cweiske re: being annoyed when first paragraph. It's not, it's in an <aside>. I suggest you file a feature request with your feed reader to add better designed support for <aside> elements.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
aaronpk: why do you not like the reading time thing? I think benwerd has gotten good feedback from it. Plus, look at it as a time to beat, like a challenge ;)
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aaronpk
i think i explained why?
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tantek
yeah I copied benwerd because I thought it sounded good, and people tend to not read things that scroll, so saying "only 3 min" I think encourages reading
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tantek
and what *is* with that cover photo aaronpk ?!? https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/700367960641114112
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Loqi
cweiske: tantek left you a message 3 minutes ago: re: being annoyed when first paragraph. It's not, it's in an <aside>. I suggest you file a feature request with your feed reader to add better designed support for <aside> elements. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455827212960
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aaronpk
i just timed it, and it took 35 seconds to read that post. so maybe I don't like the "3 minutes reading time" thing because it never actually reflects the time I spend reading articles
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tantek
wow that's really fast
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tantek
ok maybe I should drop it back down to 2 min
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KartikPrabhu
I had around 1 min or 1.5 min for that
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aaronpk
if I were not already familiar with most of the thinks hyperlinked, I may have spent 2 minutes interacting with it including clicking and skimming the links
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tantek
right, that was my assumption
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tantek
I do expect people here to read it much faster than the random person that may come across it
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aaronpk
but how do I know "3 minutes reading time" has the built-in assumption of also clicking and reading things linked? ;)
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tantek
aaronpk because clicking things to read later is typical behavior
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aaronpk
i guess what i'm saying is i don't find that useful because I don't know what assumptions the author is making about reading times, so the time listed is pretty arbitrary from my perspective
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KartikPrabhu
typical behaviour is the read headline and jump to comment something irrelevant ;)
#
aaronpk
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 132 karma
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KartikPrabhu
see the webmention article comments on register
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tantek
lol KartikPrabhu. good thing I don't have a comment box :P
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tantek
no I'm not going to read The Register comments thank you very much
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KartikPrabhu
yup exactly!
#
KartikPrabhu
also putting reading times on a post seems to me to be saying "tl;dr"
#
tantek
OTOH might make for a good case study for why Vouch will improve upon "native" comment systems
#
KartikPrabhu
no one says "read in 0.5secs" on a note
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: nah, having a scrollbar already says "tl;dr"
#
KartikPrabhu
and the scroll bar size already tells me how long it is :)
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tantek
not really. could be lots of pictures :)
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cweiske.de
edited /private-webmention (+255) "/* Issues */"
(view diff)
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tantek
btw speaking of comment threads - this back/forth between Josh Russell and me on his public share of my "Going Silo-Private" post is interesting and touches on WordPress / community / "normal folk" challenges: https://www.facebook.com/thejoshr/posts/10156618246880245?pnref=story
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aaronpk
yeah i'll have to restore that
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KevinMarks
hm - http://fb.com/msg/indiewebcamp will open a messengre chat with indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
since when can you private message pages?
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KevinMarks
they want the customer support biz that twitter has?
#
KevinMarks
so tantek could register himself as a page and use it for hic contact page?
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KevinMarks
apparently since f8 last year
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cweiske
I wanted to add h-feed support to my tinytinyrss feed reader, but after reading the http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Date_and_time_parsing rules I stopped. this is simply not possible without using a library.
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aaronpk
presumably you'd be using the php-mf2 parser, right?
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cweiske
tt-rss's current feed parser is 282 lines, and supports atom and all rss types
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cweiske
adding h-feed would mean adding at least 2k lines if you count the lib
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cjk101010
meh… implied properties are giving me headaches
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aaronpk
what in particular?
#
cjk101010
implementing the 2nd and 3rd level selectors by hand, e.g. .h-x>img:only-child[alt]:not[.h-*] or .h-x>:only-child>abbr:only-child[title]
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aaronpk
oh in parsing? that's out of my realm :)
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cjk101010
yeah. there is no parser for elixir, so I thought ”žwrite your own.“ naive I was…
#
cjk101010
well. tomorrow more. now it is bed time. gn8!
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mathpunk
I've got static html questions, if anyone's up for fielding 'em
#
mathpunk
I'm trying to have MYSITE/posts as the url where my blog is
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mathpunk
Just because, that's where it seems like chronological things should go, whereas MYSITE should be more of a masthead
#
mathpunk
but does that mean, put index.html in a "posts" subdirectory?
#
mathpunk
I think that I'm looking backward through history here; I'm trying to have the URL have meaning, but "URLs have meaning, they're not folders" is a newer concept, right, than "URLs are folders"
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snarfed
mathpunk: kind of. they overlap.
#
snarfed
and yes, posts/index.html would work.
#
snarfed
in general, don't worry about the philosophy/semantics stuff too much, unless you really enjoy it for its own sake :P'
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mathpunk
so for now, it would be okay to have my whole static site in a "posts" subdirectory, and later, I can put an index.html in the root that'll be my masthead
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mathpunk
snarfed: "Enjoy" is not the right word; "compulsive" might be
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snarfed
re the posts subdir approach, yes
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mathpunk
rock
#
@ComputerUpkeep
Remember WordPress' Pingbacks? The W3C wants us to use them across the whole web: 'Webmentions' spec promises ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/18/remember_wordpress_pingbacks_the_w3c_wants_us_to_use_them_across_the_whole_web/
(twitter.com/_/status/700433219791925248)
#
gRegorLove
mathpunk: You'll probably want a root index.html with something in it at least, or else your homepage would return a 404
shiflett, lukebrooker, friedcell and singpolyma joined the channel
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snarfed
huh. bridgy suddenly started finding and sending a lot of old instagram responses that it evidently never found
#
snarfed
i wonder why
funwhilelost, KartikPrabhu and koray joined the channel
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aaronpk
huh yeah i just saw a bunch come through
#
KevinMarks
examples?
#
KevinMarks
maybe some encoding glitch on their end just got fixed
#
petermolnar
or maybe they are backdated ad-likes :)
#
Loqi
petermolnar: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 20 minutes ago: nothing so scientific. I asked benwerd to read it, timed him, then added 50% ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-18/line/1455827124322
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snarfed
examples: https://snarfed.org/2015-04-30_14089#comment-2597155 . plain vanilla likes from real people.
#
KevinMarks
hm. some kind of public/private account visibility thing?
#
KevinMarks
if tantek likes things on twitter, do we still see them?
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snarfed
KevinMarks: i suspected the same thing too, especially since i turned on that whitelist for tantek last night (overrides the public post/account check)
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snarfed
worrisome if that's the cause, since it definitely shouldn't affect other accounts, but i *think* the change is good: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/commit/4449aa2bffa75f2a6089b6864796670bc21ad451
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aaronpk
I don't think the likes I just got were from private accounts
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snarfed
me neither
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snarfed
but i can't tell if someone i'm following is private, on either web or app
#
KevinMarks
well, you can if you're not logged in/cookied
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snarfed
ah true. silly though
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aaronpk
yeah. I like how twitter shows the lock icon.
#
KevinMarks
yes, helpful
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tantek
KevinMarks, what's helpful in particular?
#
KevinMarks
knowing when someone's account is locked, so you can consider that
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snarfed
similar to G+'s warning popup when you repost a private post
#
KevinMarks
when I view your IG account, no clue that is it private
#
KevinMarks
as I follow you
#
KevinMarks
in incognito it says so
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tantek
snarfed, G+ *lets you* repost a private post?!?
#
KevinMarks
I cna screen shot if you want to document it
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tantek
please screenshot that and upload!
#
KevinMarks
to which page?
#
tantek
said warning popup
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snarfed
tantek: sure, will add to my list
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snarfed
and remember, FB and G+ aren't black/white private/public, they're shades of gray
#
tantek
KevinMarks: I have no idea how IG presents private vs. public
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snarfed
so those reposts are usually (semi)private too
#
tantek
snarfed: more precisely, neither FB nor G+ support the /private-account feature
#
KevinMarks
I mean should I post to /instagram or /private ?
#
tantek
however both do support /private-posts
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snarfed
tantek: right
#
tantek
as does Flickr
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snarfed
my point is FB and G+ both have complex customizable levels of privacy per post
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snarfed
not just "private"
#
tantek
there's an interesting variety of private / privacy models amongst silos, and it's far from clear what people actually want / like
#
tantek
part of the reason I took this dive
#
aaronpk
if I have to temporarily shut down all the services I run for 30-40 minutes, what do you suppose would be the best time to do that?
#
tantek
aaronpk, I believe this is also the same question as the "what is the most inconvenient hour to hold a W3C teleconference" ;)
#
kevinmarks.com
uploaded /File:instagram-private-follow.png "tantek's private instagram page on the web when viewed by a follower"
#
kevinmarks.com
uploaded /File:instagram-private-incognito.png "tantek's private instagram account on the web when viewed logged out."
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /private-account (+182) "/* Instagram */"
(view diff)
#
tantek
aaronpk, I'd say ~00:30
#
aaronpk
pacific?
#
tantek
-0700
#
KevinMarks
look at your traffic graphs
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tantek
reasoning: if anyone has "things that happen at midnight once per day" it won't break those
#
aaronpk
i don't have one graph in particular i can look at
#
tantek
plus you stay out of the way of the 02:00 DST witching hour
#
tantek
and the Europeans are still having their morning tea / coffee / croissants
#
aaronpk
network traffic on the indieweb server is pretty much flat https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-02-18-15-23-23.png
#
tantek
aaronpk: likely due to bots being 24x7
#
KevinMarks
look at edits?
#
tantek
unless you've inspected your UAs histogram and explicitly blocked the bad bots
#
tantek
human traffic gets lost in the noise compared to bad bots on websites these days
#
aaronpk
let's check webmention.io received mentions
#
tantek
it's yet another admin chore of hosting your own
#
tantek
we really need a clearn & concise blog post about all the meaningful ways that Webmentions are different from Pingbacks
#
tantek
including the strong microformats support that supporting Webmentions implies
#
KartikPrabhu
are all the ways documented on wiki?
#
tantek
not in an easily consumable form
#
tantek
or findable
#
KartikPrabhu
maybe that is step 1
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KartikPrabhu
because popular articles link to the wiki often
#
tantek
(presumably smart) people keep dismissing it as, pingbacks failed so this will too
#
tantek
not realizing that 1. Pingback UX was *horrific*
#
KevinMarks
isn't that sil's post?
#
aaronpk
looks like slowest time on webmention.io is 11am UTC
#
tantek
2. having to publish / parse microformats2 adds another layer of work for spammers, and that adds to the trade-off point where it's worth their effort (or not)
#
aaronpk
so 7pm pacific
#
tantek
uh no
#
aaronpk
opos backwards
#
tantek
11:00 UTC = 03:00 PST
#
tantek
likely because of the Pacific timezone tech bias
#
tantek
e.g. so we can quickly answer tweets like: https://twitter.com/clemensv/status/700408204526620672
#
@clemensv
@jevdemon that's exactly what pingbacks for blogs were and it worked beautifully before the spammers showed up
(twitter.com/_/status/700408204526620672)
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tantek
pingbacks never worked "beautifully" ever anywhere
#
snarfed.org
edited /privacy (+281) "/* Google Plus */ Warning when reposting a private post"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Pinboard (+225) "Updated link/dfn, added Features section"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
I'd forgotten that Pinboard was bookmarking links from my tweets and tweets that I favorite.
#
gregorlove.com
edited /Pinboard (+208) "/* Features */ Backup"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Pinboard (+328) "/* Features */ bookmarks + plain text notes"
(view diff)