#indiewebcamp 2016-03-31

2016-03-31 UTC
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tantek "There’s really no excuse for Genius to demonstrate such apparent disregard for the obvious. " (yup)
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tantek interesting link at the end: http://www.niemanlab.org/2015/09/what-happened-after-7-news-sites-got-rid-of-reader-comments/
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tantek "... abandoned the practice in favor of letting users discuss stories on social channels instead."
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tantek yet even "social media" is obv actively used for abuse (c.f. Twitter gg etc.)
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gRegorLove That ThinkProgress piece is really good
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tantek perhaps add to /News_Genius ?
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gRegorLove Already on it
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gRegorLove :)
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gRegorLove Should articles be listed chronologically by date published, or newest first?
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tantek I'm not sure we're consistent, may depend on context
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gregorlove.com edited /News_Genius (+292) "/* Articles */ Genius Wants To Let Readers Annotate Any News Article. What Could Possibly Go Wrong?" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Fiskkit tries to get you to tag for truth, but I can see it being bothersome too
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tantek what is Fiskkit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Fiskkit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10H9
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KevinMarks Fiskkit is an app and website that encourages people to Fisk online articles, by letting them tag and interpolate comments at the sentence level.
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loqi.me created /Fiskkit (+172) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-30/line/1459384986213 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+230) "/* WordPress Criticisms */ blockquotes, cite links" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+654) "Criticism section, rel-canonical links" (view diff)
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gRegorLove !tell GWG Can you review /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast#WordPress_Criticisms and clarify if it's still an issue or not? First it says "This resolved..." but then "solution is pending" so I'm not sure.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+10) "/* See Also */ SEO" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+7) "move up IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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GWG Evening
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Loqi GWG: gRegorLove left you a message 47 minutes ago: Can you review /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast#WordPress_Criticisms and clarify if it's still an issue or not? First it says "This resolved..." but then "solution is pending" so I'm not sure. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-30/line/1459386019951
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+185) "/* WordPress Criticisms */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast (+59) "/* rel-canonical links */" (view diff)
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@olleolleolle Homebrew Website Club - @infotology https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/715400989008797697)
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@sl007 @github pls forward : "Social Impact Showcase" is a great idea! How about /sozialhelden and /indieweb ? (@SOZIALHELDEN @aaronpk @t) (twitter.com/_/status/715464743281160192)
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calumryan.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+74) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */" (view diff)
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petermolnar WordPress people, who also uses image metadata, watch out for the next version (4.5): https://make.wordpress.org/core/2016/03/12/performance-improvements-for-images-in-wordpress-4-5/ - apparently stripping metadata is still considered to be a performance tune.
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Loqi Joe McGill
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@hyperverses POSSE - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/715522032335790080)
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miklb might be a better question for #microformats (?) but any issues with using schema.org markup with microformats?
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KevinMarks that makes no sense
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KevinMarks schema.org has 3 or 4 ways to mark things up, but is rigid about structure
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KevinMarks you can mark up schema as mf2, but It's not a great idea: http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
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miklb KevinMarks just meant was there any issues with using schema and microformats
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KevinMarks do you have a concrete example?
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KevinMarks you will end up repeating yourself I think.
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miklb that's what I was wondering. something like this <article class="post h-entry" itemscope itemprop="blogPost" itemtype="http://schema.org/BlogPosting">
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petermolnar the only reasoning I have against schema.org that it feels like java+xml all over again
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miklb feels like he's in over his head now :-P
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KevinMarks I think you could do something like that miklb
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KevinMarks the key difference is that schema is a class hierarchy, with property inheritance
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petermolnar thus the java+xml reference...
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KevinMarks whereas microformats is objects with key/value pairs that can be nested
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miklb background of asking is I was reading over the latest HTML5 spec and example code was adding schema, so I started looking into it again
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KevinMarks where's that in the spec? microdata was taken out of html5
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miklb they used different markup for schema than what I posted but https://w3c.github.io/html/sections.html#the-article-element
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Loqi HTML 5.1
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miklb using property
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miklb <article typeof="schema:BlogPosting">
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myfreeweb that's RDFa
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miklb ah
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myfreeweb rhiaro uses RDFa together with microformats on her website (although with ActivityStreams vocabulary, not Schema.org)
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myfreeweb (with a lot of vocabularies actually)
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miklb what is RDFa
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "RDFa" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10HA
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KevinMarks RDFa is the least obnoxious way of embedding RDF in HTML, but still more verbose than microformats. See [http://www.kevinmarks.com/microformatschema.html this example]
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loqi.me created /RDFa (+194) "prompted by miklb https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-31/line/1459438865484 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Microformats 2 and Schema 2015-06-30
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aaronpk miklb: the short answer is using schema.org or anything else as well as microformats won't hurt anything
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aaronpk but I think you threw people off with the original phrasing which sounded like you were asking about how to use schema.org vocabularies as microformats markup
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miklb understood.
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miklb using along with might have been a better way to phrase it
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KevinMarks what is RDF?
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Loqi RDF is an abbreviation for Recursive Descent Forever http://indiewebcamp.com/RDF
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KevinMarks no-one expanded on the snarkinition?
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kevinmarks.com edited /RDF (+325) (view diff)
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miklb thanks everyone. Seems I have more reading to do. Still not sure if redundant, overkill or covering all bases to use both.
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snarfed just fyi bridgy beta testers, you're back on instagram scraping
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snarfed ...and looks like it's working ok. eg aaronpk's most recent like was scraped: https://brid.gy/instagram/aaronpk#responses
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snarfed aaronpk: odd. i wonder if your site's webmention sending is a bit too aggressive. i sent a like, https://snarfed.org/2016-03-31_aaron-parecki-6 , and your site immediately sent a like back with your original post (https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/30/8/) as the source
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Aaron Parecki
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Today in #wafflewednesday ... Biscuit dough filled with tomato sauce, mozzarella and fresh basil, waffled and then topped with pesto and Greek olives. #waffleeverything...
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aaronpk uhoh
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk oh, no that's my salmention sending
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aaronpk it didn't send a "like" back, it sent a webmention
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aaronpk with my post as the source
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aaronpk yours for some reason interpreted that as a like of your post, which it isn't
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snarfed right
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snarfed ok
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snarfed still seems odd, not at all intuitive that salmentions would do that, since i'm downstream of your post, not upstream
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snarfed but meh
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aaronpk hm did i do that wrong?
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snarfed i don't know? i don't really know salmentions at all
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snarfed my site's interpretation bug is probably just old back compat: it interprets u-like as a like, when it should now only interpret u-like-of
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aaronpk ah yeah that's the problem
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snarfed the interpretation problem, yes. still seems odd that i'd get a wm back at all, but meh
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aaronpk i guess it isn't technically necessary for you to get that WM back after you send yours
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aaronpk but as soon as someone else likes this post, you'll get the same WM
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aaronpk cause then you'll be "upstream"
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snarfed really?!
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snarfed so counterintuitive
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aaronpk would it make more sense if it was a comment?
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aaronpk reviews /salmention
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aaronpk hmm i guess that is not technically part of salmention sending
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aaronpk "then resend Webmentions to everything the original post sent webmentions to"
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snarfed :P
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snarfed right
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aaronpk my code sends webmentions for any URLs that my post links to, including likes and comments, so that's why you got that one
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aaronpk even if it isn't part of salmention sending, it doesn't seem incorrect to do that
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gRegorLove Sounds more like a "subscribe to all responses to this post" thing
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snarfed we're just differing on what "my post links to" means
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snarfed ie whether it's just links in content, or everything on the page
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aaronpk not really, there is obviously a link to your post on my page
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aaronpk point is anyone at all can send that webmention for me
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snarfed but you don't send wms to all the links in your header, footer, etc too, right?
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snarfed oh sure. i agree that i should handle it right.
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snarfed it's just surprising to receive the wm in practice
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aaronpk maybe i will call this an "acknowledgement webmention"
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aaronpk :D
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aaronpk it's actually useful if I were to moderate comments
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aaronpk because then you would get notified when your comment appeared
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snarfed see now it's just lipstick on a bug :P
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snarfed (kidding!)
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snarfed hey kylewm you're familiar with php-mf2, right? do you know if it now distinguishes correctly between eg u-like and u-like-of? (i'm looking at https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 but it's not easy to tell.)
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aaronpk i'm confused by that question
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aaronpk the parser has no knowledge of vocabulary
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snarfed oh, it doesn't transform the -of suffix at all?
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snarfed ok then
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aaronpk transform? no, why would it?
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snarfed oh, no reason
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snarfed whistles nonchalantly
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gRegorLove Haha
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snarfed (just btw you and me, i only *barely* get mf2)
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gRegorLove It's taken me quite a while to "get" it, and I feel like I'm always learning/clarifying something, heh
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aaronpk barnaby wrote a good intro http://microformats.org/2014/03/05/getting-started-with-microformats2
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Loqi [http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4a57cddee3c50aefa893005dcdd33b64?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=PG waterpigs.co.uk/] Getting Started With microformats2
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snarfed filed https://github.com/acegiak/Semantic-Linkbacks/issues/28
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aaronpk whoa, startssl.com replaced their browser cert login mechanism with a one-time-password sent to your email
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Loqi [indieweb] "koest.lich.es #14:" http://eay.li/2s4
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@krisshaffer The Open Web Needs Private and University Partnerships https://medium.com/@jgmac1106/the-open-web-needs-private-and-university-partnerships-1acd053d71bd @umwdtlt #indieweb #indieedtech (twitter.com/_/status/715607856075005952)
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KevinMarks mf2 parsers only really look at prefixes; it's backcompat for mf1 where we interpret things
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KevinMarks and also utils code that tries to normalise
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GWG I have a problem with finishing a project. If I use icon fonts, I already have the code. If I go for SVG, I would have to do more work. And I don't feel like doing it now.
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GWG Trying to decide if I should go the easy route so I can use the product.
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sknebel yes, you probably should if that's the options ;)
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KevinMarks why does svg require code?
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GWG KevinMarks, I keep reading about icon sprites and background images and so on.
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GWG It seems like more work to me to get done.
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KevinMarks that's premature optiisation
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GWG I also would have to gather my own icons
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KevinMarks you can just serve svg as images and it works pretty well, they load fast and cache OK.
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KevinMarks if you are seeing too many fetches on first load, you can inline them later
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GWG I just want to get to using it.
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KevinMarks how many icons?
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GWG Enough to cover the Indieauth silos, a few of the popular rel me choices, and a generic icon for an arbitrary relme
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KevinMarks so where you'd use the favicon proxy at the moment?
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GWG Not using it at the moment.
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KevinMarks eg https://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=twitter.com
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KevinMarks they work, but are always 16x16, which is a bit retro
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KevinMarks you could use that as a fallback and special case the ones you know about
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KevinMarks wikipedia is good place to get svg logos for companies
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KevinMarks https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Logos
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GWG This is why I went icon font last time.
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GWG But I may just be procrastinating
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KevinMarks even https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:SVG_logos_of_companies_associated_with_computing
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KevinMarks the google favicon proxy was written for exactly this use case - showing site icons in a rel me list for Google Profiles; Google plus still uses it
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GWG KevinMarks, if I don't complete this by Monday, I need to do a stopgap, even if it is my fault
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KevinMarks do the google proxy thing first, it's easy
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KevinMarks then look at how to improve with svg
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GWG KevinMarks, first I have to go teach a class
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snarfed ooh this looks easily hackable to get reacji in wordpress: https://wordpress.org/plugins/emoji-reactions/
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singpolyma snarfed: nice! just need to tie it in with SemanticLinkback or whatever
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snarfed resorts to nudging GWG, acegiak, pfefferle, etc :P
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@belp_audio #indieweb https://twitter.com/belp_audio/status/715637653400584193/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/715637653400584193)
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@belp_audio #indieweb https://twitter.com/belp_audio/status/715640345871138816/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/715640345871138816)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "2016-04-06" (view diff)
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tantek Just got a "This version of Safari is no longer supported. Please upgrade to a support browser. Dismiss" message from Gmail (on Safari 6.1.6 (7537.78.2))
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tantek I don't really understand why something as simple in layout needs as email needs to be so picky.
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tantek what is Gmail?
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Loqi Gmail is an email reading, composing, and searching client and service hosted by Google https://indiewebcamp.com/gmail
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tantek.com edited /Gmail (+359) "Criticism / Abandons browsers" (view diff)
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[shaners] Any objections to 2016-11-12 –2016-11-13 for IWC:LA (in Santa Monica at Pivotal)?
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tantek checks /events
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[shaners] It’s after the US Election Day, but before Thanksgiving.
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cleverdevil so, DreamHost would be willing to host at our downtown LA offices at some point.
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tantek shaners, overlaps (exactly) with Science Hack Day SF if you care about that, I know we have some folks here in SF that go to both kinds of events.
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cleverdevil just let me know :)
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cleverdevil we could also host in our offices in Orange County, if there's interest, and potentially in our Portland, OR office too!
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tantek cleverdevil - awesome! would you be up for co-organizing a HWC on a Wednesday night?
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[shaners] tantek: Dang. Hmm.
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cleverdevil sure.
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tantek shaners, yeah, agreed
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[shaners] Do you know who / how many will be going to that in SF?
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[shaners] Alternately, how about November 5-6?
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[shaners] Daylight Saving Time ends on the 6th. That’ll introduce “fun” for the event and people dealing with timestamps
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tantek ooh
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tantek hacking over a DST change - neat idea
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tantek Nov 5-6 looks clear to me. not only is it a DST change, but it's also Guy Fawkes night
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[shaners] Remember remember...
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tantek shaners, go for it, add it to https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#2016 new "Los Angeles" subsection
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tantek and see if you can get at least one co-organizer (hey cleverdevil :) )
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cleverdevil waves
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aaronpk cleverdevil: there's a portland office?!
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[shaners] Who is cleverdevil?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Cleverdevil.io
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[shaners] Thanks Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+233) "/* Before */ positive reasons for co-organizers, add it to /Planning" (view diff)
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tantek (really helps a lot to have 2+ co-organizers, see: https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#Before )
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aaronpk +1
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[shaners] totes
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[shaners] I experienced that when I tried to solo IWC:Hollywood a couple few years ago
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[shaners] cleverdevil: Hi!
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[shaners] cleverdevil: If you want to start doing HWCs at the Dreamhost office downtown, I would attend them.
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tantek ooh that sounds like a good start!
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tantek maybe add that as a possibility to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Getting_Started_or_Restarting / Los Angeles?
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+103) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */" (view diff)
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@airbornesurfer #Instagram Hates The Internet #Facebook #IndieWeb #Privacy http://airbornesurfer.com/?p=13226 (twitter.com/_/status/715660024098525187)
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[shaners] aaronpk et al: How do I upload a file to a specific path? `/sponsor-logos/full/pivotal.png`
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aaronpk you can't, only I can do that one
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aaronpk we can't have sponsor logos uploaded to the wiki through the normal process because that would imply the logo is CC0
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aaronpk but send me a link to the logo and I will put it there and in the wiki footer too
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[shaners] will you do the greyscale conversion for footer or should I?
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aaronpk i can do it, i have a template for it
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[shaners] kthx!
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miklb GWG I want to work on something similar for the Jekyll theme I'm working on. Maybe we can collaborate?
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-03-31-gmail-browser-not-supported.png]]""
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veganstraightedge.com created /2016/LA (+6075) "IndieWebCamp 2016 LA : (2016-11-04 & ) 2016-11-05-2016-11-06" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com created /2016/LA/Planning (+51) "Created page with "{{stub}} [[2016/LA|IndieWebCamp LA 2016]] Planning"" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/LA/Planning (+1503) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /feedbin (+82) "link, clarify paid,hosted version + open source version" (view diff)