#indiewebcamp 2016-04-07

2016-04-07 UTC
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@strugee2 RT @kissane Reminder that http://indiewebcamp.com/ exists and is awesome (twitter.com/_/status/717864570610528256)
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@jgmac1106 Does anyone have link to Teddy Roosevelt test? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/717863757754404864)
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aaronparecki.com edited /ngrok (+108) (view diff)
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@nevan RT @kissane Reminder that http://indiewebcamp.com/ exists and is awesome (twitter.com/_/status/717866223246131200)
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aaronpk bret: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/cdb9bb83f380484c5f600bbba62f5ea9
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@aaronpk @todrobbins Copy this: http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:aaronpk and feel free to join the chat! https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06 (twitter.com/_/status/717890473134653440)
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@WordPressIs Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/717889468875870213)
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@kevinmarks RT @kissane Reminder that http://indiewebcamp.com/ exists and is awesome (twitter.com/_/status/717884447983468544)
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@benwerd Heading to Mozilla San Francisco for Homebrew Website Club! You should too, if you're in the neighborhood. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/717883644124090368)
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@EdwinxVelez @JonathanSaar Check This Out: Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/717894323635748866)
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aaronpk haha Known thinks my comment is by "Web User"
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aaronpk sounds like someone needs to finish implementing /authorship ;-) kylewm
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the next IndieWebCamp is in Nürnberg on April 16-17 http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/717898232446259200)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: general announcements - we had indiewebcamp MIT since last meeting http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT (twitter.com/_/status/717897700608512000)
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GWG Evening
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mblaney !tell snarfed bridgy hasn't found a webmention target for my post, the log is https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1459994814&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6ZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLDIwMTM6MTAxNTQwNzY4NzY3MDY0NDkM
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mblaney !tell snarfed thanks in advance for your help (let me know if I've done something wrong)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm mblaney: is this the post? https://www.facebook.com/10153668620336449/posts/10154076876706449
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mblaney kylewm it is, but that's not the original created by bridgy.
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mblaney (that's the one I shared once the post was published)
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mblaney kylewm: sorry you're right, that link is to the share I created that should get backfed as a repost.
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kylewm mblaney: there's a couple issues I think, but long story short, bridgy can't find the original url of https://www.facebook.com/382718528586636/posts/492466377611850
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kylewm If you include the url at the end of the text of the post, that should fix it
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todrobbins.com created /Template:todrobbins (+147) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|http://todrobbins.com/images/tod-small.jpg}} [[User:Todrobbins.com|Tod Robbins]]</span>"" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: messages?
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Loqi yeah!
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kylewm yeah! no!
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tantek lol
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kylewm is sitting close enough to tantek to know he did not actually lol
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KartikPrabhu tantek: good response: http://tantek.com/2016/097/t5/class-visible-content-html-authors-designers
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] @cackhanded is right. class is used on visible content.
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KartikPrabhu ruh roh
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tantek inside-lol :P
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KartikPrabhu loli?
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mblaney kylewm bridgy didn't backfeed the likes to the original post either though.
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kylewm mblaney: I don't think it can find the original post
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kylewm given the url https://www.facebook.com/382718528586636/posts/492466377611850 it doesn't have any way to find the url https://lettuceshare.org/2016-04-07-Windsor_Food_Collective_
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Loqi [Malcolm Blaney] Windsor Food Collective
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mblaney that's strange because I can see it in the list of published posts: https://brid.gy/facebook/382718528586636
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mblaney but sure, just from that facebook url there's no way to do OPD
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kylewm hehe, yeah bridgy publish doesn't talk to bridgy backfeed .. that's a good point that it could
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mblaney left hand meet right hand :-P
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KartikPrabhu it is good that they are independent pieces of code
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mblaney but doesn't imply you always need link backs?
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KartikPrabhu that is up to you to publish. having bridgy do everything only increases reliance on bridgy and spof
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kylewm unless you can do http://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery which facebook makes diffiult because of app-scoped user IDs
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KartikPrabhu yup
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snarfed mblaney: you need either a backlink in the silo post or a syndication url on your site. either works.
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Loqi snarfed: mblaney left you a message 25 minutes ago: bridgy hasn't found a webmention target for my post, the log is https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1459994814&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6ZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLDIwMTM6MTAxNTQwNzY4NzY3MDY0NDkM http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06/line/1459995554629
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Loqi snarfed: mblaney left you a message 25 minutes ago: thanks in advance for your help (let me know if I've done something wrong) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06/line/1459995584226
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the CEO of hypothe.is defended News Genius's model (twitter.com/_/status/717903790502977537)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you have an independent website, you can still be harassed by these centralised services see http://indiewebcamp.com/News_Genius (twitter.com/_/status/717903679626559488)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: the structural problem here is very difficult, as harassers build their own communities (twitter.com/_/status/717901397656731648)
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@betsythedevine RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Newsgenius blew up last week as a harassment tool - I wrote a script to block their overlay (twitter.com/_/status/717900501191368705)
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@jdlasica @kevinmarks @indiewebcamp a doner? is that like a goner? (twitter.com/_/status/717900467171405824)
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@Radlein RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Newsgenius blew up last week as a harassment tool - I wrote a script to block their overlay (twitter.com/_/status/717900052656689152)
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@chuq RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Newsgenius blew up last week as a harassment tool - I wrote a script to block their overlay (twitter.com/_/status/717899950676258817)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Newsgenius blew up last week as a harassment tool - I wrote a script to block their overlay (twitter.com/_/status/717899375784161281)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @indiewebcamp: a doner would like to sponsor $1000 for individuals from under-represented groups to attend Indiewebcamp Summit (twitter.com/_/status/717898836883152896)
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snarfed (mblaney: and if you go the syndication url route, you also need at least an h-feed linked from your front page so bridgy can find the posts. looks like there isn't one right now.)
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mblaney aaahhh ok thanks!
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kylewm that'd be a real advantage to publishing via Bridgy Publish -- you get the same app-scoped user id on both sides
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mblaney so if I want to add a syndication url, I would need to create a post, POSSE with bridgy, find the new facebook url and then add that to the post?
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kylewm bridgy publish returns the facebook url in response to the webmention you send it
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kylewm but otherwise yes
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mblaney ah that's nice of it! :-)
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mblaney I need to do some reading up on all that now.
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snarfed obligatory plug: https://silo.pub/ is a more powerful alternative to bridgy publish
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mblaney I have a few other bridgy questions while we're on the topic,
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@Teckreview RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: instagram has switched to an algorithm for their reader - I have seen fewer interactions (twitter.com/_/status/717908723621109761)
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@diddleapp RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: instagram has switched to an algorithm for their reader - I have seen fewer interactions (twitter.com/_/status/717908722257960961)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: instagram has switched to an algorithm for their reader - I have seen fewer interactions (twitter.com/_/status/717907365916499969)
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mblaney I know bridgy will remove html formatting if you ask it, but does that include paragraphs?
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mblaney ie facebook will convert <bold> to ** which I would rather just be plain text, but would like to keep paragraph structure.
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snarfed mblaney: oh. yes, it's all or nothing, no fine-grained knobs
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snarfed you can give it the raw text you want published though, instead of having it pull from your post. https://brid.gy/about#silo-content
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mblaney thanks yes I saw that, maybe I will if it bothers me enough.
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mblaney I'm not sure if my other question is a bridgy thing,
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mblaney I've seen that known let's you choose from multiple facebook or twitter accounts to POSSE to?
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mblaney but I can't see how I could enable that.
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snarfed you can do it if they each have their own web sites, but not for multiple accts with the same web site (ie domain). https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/629
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mblaney ok thanks that's good to know.
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mblaney I'm guessing known doesn't use bridgy then?
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tantek hmm looks like a bunch of recent KevinMarks HWC SF tweets are not making it through
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I released an update to @cassisjs for minor bugfixes and useful functions for indieweb use cases: https://github.com/tantek/cassis (twitter.com/_/status/717913226533605378)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp LA is planned http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/LA November 4-6th - sign up and go (twitter.com/_/status/717912327480283136)
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tantek lol
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tantek once again inside-lol
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mblaney I'm sure I've seen screen shots from KevinMarks where his posting UI has multiple twitter accounts selected?
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tantek this URL: https://github.com/tantek/cassis/releases
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mblaney anyway I'm happy to look at adding support for it to bridgy too.
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tantek !tell aaronpk did you document that second micropub delete/undelete/read/update implementation somewhere on https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub ? Do we need a new section for "complete" CDURU implementations?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek I think it was unrelenting.technology
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snarfed mblaney: oh, sorry, missed the "known." you're right, known can publish to multiple accounts on a given silo. i don't know how though, sorry.
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mblaney no worries, I'm interested in multiple accounts on the original domain too.
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mblaney haven't done any python for a while but will look at it if dogada doesn't beat me to it :-)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: (twitter.com/_/status/717914657734991874)
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mblaney (p.s. I only mentioned known because I saw it was possible from their posting UI, assumed they used bridgy)
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snarfed mblaney: ah. they don't, at least not to posse.
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mblaney cool well I realize now that my multi-user can't handle multiple accounts signing up to bridgy so will have to fix that soon.
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mblaney s/multi-user/multi-user site/
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Loqi mblaney meant to say: cool well I realize now that my multi-user site can't handle multiple accounts signing up to bridgy so will have to fix that soon.
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mblaney snarfed: since you mentioned silo.pub though, feel free to say don't add multiple silo account support to bridgy...
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mblaney I could always add micropub support to my site and use silo.pub instead?
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@annbass @kevinmarks @indiewebcamp I love the spirit! How do those people get identifies and selected? (twitter.com/_/status/717928367991889920)
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@WordPressRead Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/717940042392543232)
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gyuumaou i have a question, mostly curiosity. how often do you all find yourselves significantly changing the design of your site?
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snarfed mblaney: either way! whichever you prefer
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snarfed gyuumaou: varies widely from person to person
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gyuumaou i end up redesigning mine every 3-6 months. usually from distaste of the current design
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@egoexpress RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the next IndieWebCamp is in Nürnberg on April 16-17 http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (twitter.com/_/status/717941945310511104)
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@benwerd @kylewmahan One of the things I really like about #indieweb is that it's about making new things for the future. (twitter.com/_/status/717941897214320640)
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aaronpk gyuumaou: my trend has been redesigning every 3-4 years
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 3 minutes ago: did you document that second micropub delete/undelete/read/update implementation somewhere on https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub ? Do we need a new section for "complete" CDURU implementations? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06/line/1459999286326
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aaronpk almost exactly that regularly ever since 1999
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KartikPrabhu I am 3 years into the current site and don't feel the need to a major redesign at all
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KartikPrabhu i would rather channel that urge into designing articles since I can style each article separately
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mblaney sorry me again... the twitter POSSE of the post I mentioned has a link back, but the bridgy log looks the same:
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mblaney https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1460007592&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo3MTc4ODUxMTAzOTgyOTYwNjQM
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KartikPrabhu mblaney: might need to recrawl your site
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KartikPrabhu or re-poll Twitter for links
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mblaney KartikPrabhu: yes sorry you're right
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mblaney I was confused at the "No webmention targets" status but that only applies for the original post.
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KartikPrabhu yes
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gyuumaou i try to do as much as i can myself, but for some reason instead of changing parts i change the whole thing every time i learn something new. which i suppose is good, if i'm changing it often i must be learning.
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gyuumaou should really just use wordpress or octobercms or something though, it's getting old haha
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KartikPrabhu this is not tied to using Wordpress or any other system. I use a custom system but don't redesign all the time
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mblaney After reading /posse-post-discovery I am a new convert to always including backlinks.
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mblaney I can't believe the effort put into dealing with how silo post presentation... it's quite impressive.
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mblaney Also I'm sure there are reasons why you might want to keep bridgy publish and bridgy backfeed separate, but if you've already got the data why would you want to go through the discovery process?
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KartikPrabhu becuase people might not rely on Bridgy Publish all the time
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KartikPrabhu manual delete, edit etc...
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mblaney sure the posse-post-discovery process is fine if that's all you have. but it could be the fallback in this case.
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KartikPrabhu also I am not sure Bridgy Publish saves the data of the published post; maybe it does
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boffosocko.com edited /2016/LA/Guest_List (+538) "/* Participants */ Chris Aldrich RSVP" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /2016/LA/Planning (+18) "/* Planning */ Chris Aldrich volunteering..." (view diff)
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@fonte011 Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718009965332574209)
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@Bradamante RT @kissane Reminder that http://indiewebcamp.com/ exists and is awesome (twitter.com/_/status/718058222469455873)
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[jgarber] Good morning, all! How were last night’s Homebrew Website Clubs?
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Loqi [jgarber]: tantek left you a message on 4/4 at 11:15am: I optimistically put HWC DC as ON for this week in the Mozilla weekly announcements :) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-04/line/1459793718202
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (+89) "/* New York City 2 */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (-110) "/* Planned */" (view diff)
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GWG !tell acegiak What is the history of Semantic Linkbacks?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@YEGB2B Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress https://managewp.org/articles/12108/trackbacks-vs-pingbacks-vs-webmentions-for-wordpress (twitter.com/_/status/718093653110079489)
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@EtownMarketing Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress https://managewp.org/articles/12108/trackbacks-vs-pingbacks-vs-webmentions-for-wordpress (twitter.com/_/status/718092345812652032)
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@wazabimkt Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions #WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718091885223546882)
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@ChrisAldrich IndieWebCamp Los Angeles 2016 Announced for November 4-6 http://boffosocko.com/2016/04/07/indiewebcamp-los-angeles-2016-announced-for-november-4-6/ #indieweb https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/718096571422801920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718096571422801920)
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emmak aaronpk: i'm sorry i couldn't make it to hwc last night
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aaronpk emmak: no worries! next time I hope!
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aaronpk it's nice that the weather is getting warmer now :-) makes me more excited about actually going out to places
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aaronpk interesting problem I just encountered
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aaronpk if the micropub update request results in the post having a new URL, I need the response to include the new URL, otherwise the editing interface has no way of finding it
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@ChrisAldrich @veganstraightedge The facebook event for #indieweb LA 2016 got deleted somehow? https://www.facebook.com/events/590941321087314 (twitter.com/_/status/718108004265041921)
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@AgentEvolution Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718107475799642113)
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emmak like if you edit the title of an article?
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aaronpk depends on the site, but editing anything that would cause the URL to change
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aaronpk in my case, my URLs are based on the publish date and an optional slug
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aaronpk so if I change the publish date, the post would have a new URL
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emmak what about the http location header in the response?
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aaronpk yeah that's what's used for creating posts
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aaronpk wondering what HTTP code to use. I think either 202 Accepted or 303 See Other
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aaronpk leaning towards 202 since it's already a valid response, although that means a browser won't actually follow the Location header from a form post
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sknebel 202 is more "queued, you can look up later if I actually did something useful with it" in my interpretation?
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sknebel as in, it isn't clear yet if the request was sucessful
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aaronpk that's how it's used with webmention
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aaronpk the only 2xx codes that allow a Location header are 201 and 202
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sknebel 201 implies it is a new post, which it also isn't really... hm
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sknebel do browsers do useful things with 303?
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm: regarding mf2util, thats okay, thats all interesting input too
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aaronpk i think a browser will redirect on 303
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aaronpk but it kind of seems weird to use a 3xx code as "success"
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sknebel 303 is a redirect sending you to the success (or failure)
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aaronpk 303 isn't quiiiite right "The response to the request can be found under another URI using a GET method."
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sknebel they all are not quite right
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aaronpk is this not a thing that happens normally? what does WebDav return?
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aaronpk there's a "move/rename" operation in WebDAV right?
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aaronpk http://www.webdav.org/specs/rfc2518.html#METHOD_MOVE
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aaronpk move is defined as copy and then delete
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@FeralHomemaking RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: Newsgenius blew up last week as a harassment tool - I wrote a script to block their overlay (twitter.com/_/status/718117464605868032)
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aaronpk and they use 201 to indicate "The source resource was successfully moved, and a new resource was created at the destination."
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aaronpk i guess that does make sense
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sknebel yeah, the model of "it's the same resource, it's just under a different path now" doesn't really work with HTTP
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aaronpk okay i'm going with 201 since it's what WebDAV does and seems like the least wrong option
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boffosocko.com edited /News_Genius (+231) "added Hypothes.is article as competitor reaction/response" (view diff)
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@tealtan @anildash @kissane I mean I quite like the indiewebcamp approach to that: https://twitter.com/tealtan/status/718119564136091648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/718119564136091648)
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aaronpk so in doing a more thorough implementation of my site where i can update the slug and publish date of posts, it turns out doing a copy and delete is actually looking like a good option just architecturally
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aaronpk lots to consider when moving things around on disk
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[shaners] aaronpk: That’s prolly worth noting in the (DB vs filesystem) as datastore documentation on the wiki.
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[shaners] Seems like, A: that’s not a problem for DB as datastore and 2: a decent solution to the problem in filesystem as datastore (copy and delete)
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aaronpk mebbe. it'd still be a problem with DB as datastore unless you also stored attachments in the DB
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aaronpk it's the attachments (photos and stuff) which make it hard
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[shaners] If they’re stored in datetime directory structure. If they’re not, you don’t have to move them. Right?
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aaronpk it totally depends on how you're storing things
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[shaners] Yep
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aaronpk so i'm not sure there's anything really useful to add
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[shaners] Also, I wonder about transactional concerns. What happens if things fail after you’ve copied but before you’ve copied?
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aaronpk i could have also avoided a lot of this complexity if I stored things on disk in a different way
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[shaners] s/you’ve copied/you’ve deleted/
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Loqi [shaners] meant to say: Also, I wonder about transactional concerns. What happens if things fail after you’ve deleted but before you’ve deleted?
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aaronpk so neither option is a silver bullet
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[shaners] nothing ever is
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aaronpk it works! \o/
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KevinMarks copy, add redirect, delete in that order?
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aaronpk for the main post contents, yes. but I am actually doing a "move" operation on associated files
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aaronpk now i should be able to better fix my posts when the timezone is wrong
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aaronpk right now if i post after 5pm and the timezone isn't set properly, the date in the URL is set to tomorrow
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aaronpk now that i can properly handle moving the files around, it should fix it when i update the date to be a different day
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[shaners] I have a Facebook problem.
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[shaners] I made an event for IWC LA on FB. But somehow I made it a private event.
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[shaners] But I can’t figure out where in the UI to make it a public event.
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aaronpk you can't change it
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[shaners] Grrr
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aaronpk yup. delete and re-create.
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snarfed wow
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aaronpk i mean i kind of see why they do that
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aaronpk cause anyone who RSVPd to the private event may not want that information to suddenly become public
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aaronpk but if nobody has interacted with the event yet, they should let you change it
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[shaners] yeah.
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kylewm !tell rhiaro the second entry on http://rhiaro.co.uk/ has a little odd mf2 <a class="h-card p-name u-author u-url">; I don't think that's doing what you intend. also that post permalink is broken
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/LA (+1) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/LA/Guest_List (+1) "/* RSVPs from other sites */" (view diff)
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rhiaro Whaaaaaat
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rhiaro Sigh
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Loqi rhiaro: kylewm left you a message 5 minutes ago: the second entry on http://rhiaro.co.uk/ has a little odd mf2 <a class="h-card p-name u-author u-url">; I don't think that's doing what you intend. also that post permalink is broken http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-07/line/1460054189119
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rhiaro Okay, I quit websites
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veganstraightedge.com edited /events/2016-04-27-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* Los Angeles (Santa Monica) */" (view diff)
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j4y.co edited /User:J4y_funabashi (+575) (view diff)
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snarfed rhiaro: agreed
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snarfed dirty little secret, i kinda hate the web
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snarfed if anything else let me publish/own my data in public and (effectively) for free, in the same way, i'd be all over it
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@nicksimard Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/718140614341226497)
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rhiaro Something has blown up
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rhiaro I was going to further back up my position by linking to a recent post I made saying 'I hate computers'
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rhiaro But in an unsurprising twist
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rhiaro It's broken
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snarfed oh definitely yes to that
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rhiaro http://rhiaro.co.uk/2016/04/life
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snarfed if i could do computer science without computers, i'd do it and never turn back
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rhiaro The posse is okay https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/716661821990707200
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@rhiaro I hate computers. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2016/04/life (twitter.com/_/status/716661821990707200)
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[shaners] snarfed: I’m writing Markdown with pen and paper. So, kinda that. :stuck_out_tongue:
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rhiaro I swear the original was there a few days ago
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rhiaro throws laptop, storms out
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rhiaro I think my website has become sentient and is fighting back
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rhiaro #indiewebproblems
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[shaners] rhiaro: https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/4/1/17/enhanced-buzz-28895-1301694293-0.jpg
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rhiaro Tehe
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chrisaldrich Shaners, RE: IndieWebCamp LA facebook, if you make an event private, the only thing you can do is delete it and start over again. They don't have a simple toggle for making it public.
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j4y_funabashi rhiaro: shhh, they will remember that for when skynet kicks in...
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[shaners] chrisaldrich: https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/718145922149048321
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@veganstraightedge @chrisaldrich Fixed. https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser (twitter.com/_/status/718145922149048321)
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GWG Afternoon
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chrisaldrich shaners: not sure how many of us native angelinos there are, but let me know what/how I can help on the event. I've been slowly trying to infect people in small groups and have been contemplating setting up pseudo regular events in LA, but have been too busy the last several months
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chrisaldrich I'm hoping that with a local camp, perhaps I'll be more motivated to do some smaller evangelization locally between now and November
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GWG Hello, chrisaldrich.
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chrisaldrich Howdy David!
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GWG Maybe if I figure out what my new lifestyle is, I'll try to come to LA. I haven't been in several years.
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chrisaldrich Let us know if you need help/recommendations in advance.
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GWG ChrisAldrich, got a moment for some brain picking?
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chrisaldrich Los Angeles in November will still probably be 70 degrees with good surfing weather.
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chrisaldrich sure, I'm game
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chrisaldrich what can we help you with?
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GWG I was taking a break from something that I was stuck on and looking at Webmentions and Semantic Linkbacks. Any thoughts on improvements for them as a user?
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chrisaldrich I understand you were still breaking some of the rel-me stuff out of semantic linkback plugin right?
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GWG ChrisAldrich, rel.me out of Syndication Links. That is what I tabled.
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GWG I was stuck on the project
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GWG I thought I should put it aside for a while
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chrisaldrich The two biggest things from a UI perspective I see (in relation to WP) are having better display of comments/trackbacks/pingbacks/webmentions for themes in general, particularly facepiling likes and reposts
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chrisaldrich The other is (possibly widgetizing) some of the h-card identification material that will make it easier to identify one on the web
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GWG Would you like it even if you had to do some minor theme editing?
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GWG ChrisAldrich, the h-card stuff is on the issue list for the Indieweb plugin.
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chrisaldrich So for example creating a simple block with an upload for a photo, indcluding, name, address, titles, jobs, etc as well as other rel-me social media links in a simple block
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chrisaldrich I don't do a lot of coding professionally, but I'm not opposed to getting my hands dirty on minor theme editing to get a better result.
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chrisaldrich I think if there was a simple way to do some theme modification and a reasonable tutorial out there to follow, it might help infect more people into joining the community.
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GWG It would be... 'Add this line to your theme where you want your Facepile.' or such.
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GWG But my work at the moment is in enhancing the webmentions code to support some new stuff.
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chrisaldrich That would be almost too easy... and certainly easily doable. As an example, I think there's an issue with the .org version of Independent Publisher I'd seen that wasn't even displaying likes/reposts from webmentions and I've been meaning to dig into it to fix it, particularly as the dev was actually interested in indieweb
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GWG I am hoping to get in delete support and better updating
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gRegorLove Can widgets hook into individual posts, both in a stream and on permalinks? I thought yes.
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GWG gRegorLove, they can somewhat
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gRegorLove Maybe not "widget", but a plugin hook
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GWG Widgets can have display logic to not always show up.
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GWG Plugin hooks are the ones most use to avoid theme hacking. It. limits the flexibility sometimes though
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chrisaldrich delete support would be good. I can see some usefulness in updating, though I haven't had particular use cases that have been vexing presently. Do you have a particular case(s) in mind that I could think about?
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chrisaldrich I also need to sit down and read through the newest version of the specs as I haven't done that since late last summer sometime. Are there any particular goodies I should focus on?
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GWG Simple version is when you correct a typo on a reply
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GWG A lot of what I am playing with is having the design to write a better update function later.
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GWG I believe in improving on pfefferle's modular design
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GWG Also, been reading the specification for ideas. The webmention timeout is set for 100 seconds, the specification suggests 5 as an example.
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GWG Curious what other people are using
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chrisaldrich yes, the modularity is certainly nice and useful and makes it easier to iterate on or replace/update later.
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chrisaldrich I've been trying to spend some time digging into other projects like /known to try out functionality and view code
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GWG ChrisAldrich, I use the Github issue tracker even to note my own ideas for enhancement
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chrisaldrich The difference between them seems like a lifetime, I wonder what the usable range is
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GWG I thought someone who implemented a webmention system might have thoughts.
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GWG We have some in here.
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chrisaldrich eventually the suite of tools may make bundling the entirety together into one super-set a useful thing to do...
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GWG pingbacks in Wordpress default to 10
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GWG Yes, but due to independent development tracks they are still separate
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chrisaldrich The nice part is that things have come along tremendously far since about a year ago, which makes the overall usability and onboarding much better.
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GWG Which is why merging may be more viable than before.
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chrisaldrich Sometimes it seems like Known moves a bit faster as a project because it's so centralized in relation to the WP
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chrisaldrich The IndieWeb plugin was a lovely stroke of genius as it makes some of the bundling to most end-users so seamless.
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chrisaldrich I need to set aside some time to just plow through it, but I've been thinking of making a master user-manual for the WordPress suite of tools. Most of the major functionality seems pretty solid, but onboarding can be an issue since there are so many individual pieces which can/should be utilized.
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chrisaldrich I know tantek has mentioned making on-boarding easier and smoother in the past, and the WP side of life has gotten WAY better since I started dabbling a year or two ago, but even I have problems keeping some of the moving parts straight.
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gRegorLove There was some discussion yesterday about merging the Semantic Linkbacks plugin into the Webmention plugin so one plugin gives better looking comments.
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gRegorLove Or, if not that, at least giving Semantic Linkbacks a better name.
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chrisaldrich GWG, I know you occasionally do WP core dev work and that Matt is watching the spec in general, but what kind of though/discussion has there been about pushing into WP core? The evolution of what's happening in the community feels to me like the next iteration of what the web should be.
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GWG gRegorLove, I want to talk to pfefferle and acegiak before any merger discussion.
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GWG ChrisAldrich, very little discussion, but no gigantic opposition other than apathy.
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chrisaldrich POSSE Linkbacks? IndieWeb Linkbacks? Webmention linkbacks? Something that keeps the overall branding?
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chrisaldrich Can we get O'Reilly to brand us with the phrase Web 3.0?
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gRegorLove web3.0--
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chrisaldrich gRegorLove, beat me by a second apparently ;)
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gRegorLove "Linkbacks" is kinda jargon-y imo
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gRegorLove Context from yesterday: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06#t1459970320039
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chrisaldrich Thanks @gRegorLove, that's certainly helpful. Does anyone have a flowchart with dependencies (or make one?) Or possibly a proposed sketch of what could happen in the next year perhaps?
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aaronpk how does Known upload photos to the server? Is it done in a normal HTML form, or does it use fancy XHR stuff to do it from javascript?
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aaronpk i have this XHR thing mostly working in Quill, but it makes me nervous
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[kevinmarks] I think it uses a normal form, with some js for previewing.
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gRegorLove If you want fancier drag 'n drop, I've used http://www.dropzonejs.com/ on some projects and it works well
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aaronpk oh yeah i've used that
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aaronpk i'm not as worried abotu drag and drop, but I want to submit via JS so that I can show errors client-side without reloading the page
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gRegorLove I think it handles that. Might be overkill for what you need though.
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aaronpk yeah i implemented it in JS directly. holy cow browser JS has gotten way better since 2006
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gRegorLove chrisaldrich: I don't think there's a flowchart yet. GWG might be working on it. I'm not a WordPress user myself, though quite a bit of experience with it for clients.
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aaronpk document.getElementById('photo_preview').src = URL.createObjectURL(event.target.files[0])
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aaronpk like whoa
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Right? I'm referencing http://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ on a current work project and it's been pretty nice
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tantek nice indeed
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aaronpk and the XMLHttpRequest API seems not insane anymore too
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gRegorLove I haven't had to think "what about Internet Explorer..." in quite some time.
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aaronpk and you can build multipart requests with the FormData class o.O
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gRegorLove Hi tantek o/
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tantek yo o/
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tantek is thinking about event post design again, as he does every day the day after HWC ;)
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aaronpk i was just thinking about events too
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aaronpk wow apparently the mobile safari <input type="file"> element shows a tiny preview of the photo itself!
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aaronpk now I can test my laptop's version of Quill from my phone thanks to tunnlr!
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tantek neat!
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tantek still posting full resolution?
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aaronpk yeah, i haven't done anythign with resizing yet
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kylewm aaronpk: it's interesting that you showed up with the right name on https://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/2016/do-salmentions-not-fill-up-the-indieweb-i-get-a
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kylewm i.e. not Web User
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aaronpk oh funny
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aaronpk :sigh: photo rotation
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tantek aaronpk: # ios9problems
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aaronpk oh wait what the
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aaronpk on my phone, this is in the correct orientation https://pk.tunnlr.xyz/2016/04/07/6/
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aaronpk on my computer, it's not
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Kitten butt
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tantek (hahaha caption)
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tantek KevinMarks: were you quoting a literal moment of silence? https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/717914657734991874
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tantek Loqi?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: (twitter.com/_/status/717914657734991874)
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aaronpk i think i have to do this http://stackoverflow.com/a/22506787
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kylewm been there
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kylewm grr, ok so until recently Known looked for any h-card at the top level to find author info, which https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/24/13/ has
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gRegorLove Interesting social media interaction concepts: https://youtu.be/mixsze6uJPg Uses the proximity sensor on your phone to take a picture or video, so you hold it to your chest rather than stare at your phone to get it "just right"
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] No, the software should recognize that the follow-up notification is an update of an existing one, and react accordingly. More details here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Salmention#Receiving_Salmentions...
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kylewm so I'm not sure if I should finish implementing the authoriship algorithm or put it back the way it was
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kylewm interesting, has anyone actually implemented http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship ?
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tantek kylewm: every step in the algorithm was based on someone's authoring publishing practice
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kylewm no doubt, but has anyone implemented the algorithm?
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tantek or rather, which subsets *have* been implemented?
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tantek certainly you're doing at least parts
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kylewm I suspect most implementations do some of the algorithm and some things outside of the algorithm
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kylewm I havne't personally seen any that actually do the extra fetch if the author is on another URL
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KevinMarks TIL if I typo a twitter handle to a non-existent one, twitter doesn't make it a reply post
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KevinMarks so this is the case I was trying to explain yesterday: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/kylewmhan-if-i-reply-to-this-on-known-and-posse is a reply to a non-POSSEd post
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KevinMarks when it is sent to twitter known doesn't put the URL in
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gRegorLove I haven't tested extensively, but I think I implement all of /authorship
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tantek kylewm: that's good feedback
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tantek gRegorLove: in your site, or open source somewhere?
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gRegorLove Both.
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gRegorLove re-reads /authorship
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gRegorLove I don't do #4, the h-feed author step
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] @kylewmahan If I reply to this on known, and POSSE to twitter, does twitter get the URL?
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tantek nice - linked from /authorship ?
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tantek "Implementations"?
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gRegorLove I'll review my code and note on there what I do and don't support
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kylewm.com edited /authorship (+159) "/* Other theoretical */ add aaronpk's site as a "in the wild" example" (view diff)
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tantek definitely!
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kylewm gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 56 karma
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kylewm gRegorLove: is your implementation in ProcessWire-Webmention?
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gRegorLove Yeah, in https://github.com/gRegorLove/ProcessWire-Webmention/blob/master/Webmention/Webmention.module. Uses barnabywalters mf-cleaner getAuthor, in part.
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kylewm minor minor nitpick, I think you are not doing 5.2
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gRegorLove There's some holes I'm seeing in my parsing, yeah
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gRegorLove I need to run it against https://github.com/sandeepshetty/authorship-test-cases
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kylewm although hmm, barnaby's function does quite a bit
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KevinMarks I wrote an issue for the replies POSSE thing: https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1396
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KevinMarks it is a bit confusing to write about
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gRegorLove kylewm: It does, but I think my parseAuthor function only handles if it returns an h-card, not a URL or a plain text author name.
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kylewm gRegorLove: yeah but I think it does some heuristics to try to "flesh out" a u-author
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kylewm so like on aaron's page, you have u-author = /, I think barnaby's function will return a full h-card
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colintedford.com created /sqlite (+20) "make all-lowercase redirect for convenience even though such tedious busywork is what computers excel at" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /authorship (+376) "/* Implementation heuristics */ ProcessWire Webmention" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: XRay implements the /authorship algorithm
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aaronpk with tests https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/tree/master/tests
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aaronpk and lots of test data here https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/tree/master/tests/data/author.example.com
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aaronpk it also does actually fetch the author URL like the algorithm says, but I wasn't happy about it
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gRegorLove What is XRay?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "XRay" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Hi
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aaronpk srsly?
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gRegorLove It's only on the p3k naming conventions page I think
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aaronpk XRay is an API that returns structured data for a URL by parsing [[microformats]] and following other indieweb [[algorithms]]
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loqi.me created /XRay (+152) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-07/line/1460065220412 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk the /p3k_naming_conventions page is quickly turning into a directory of services
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kylewm kewl
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kylewm I suspected it might but honestly couldn't remember the name
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gregorlove.com edited /authorship (+218) "/* Implementation heuristics */ XRay, tests+test data links" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /XRay (+399) (view diff)
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aaronpk oh boy /p3k needs a bunch of updates now that everything changed
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aaronpk i might just archive that page at p3kv1
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snarfed needs more arbitrary letters and numbers
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aaronparecki.com edited /Switchboard (+19) "add to p3k category" (view diff)
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aaronpk indeed
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aaronparecki.com edited /Compass (+18) "add to p3k category" (view diff)
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kylewm C0mp455, T313gr4ph
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aaronpk hey how did you know my password
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gRegorLove v 1.3.3.7
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016 (-3) "new venue for PDX 2016!" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Ooh
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aaronpk hmm should Quill correct the photo rotation before it sends it to the micropub endpoint? or is that something my micropub endpoint should do? or both?
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aaronpk i think both
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aaronpk ookay funtimes. now Quill corrects the photo rotation before sending it along.
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tantek What is Vadio?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Vadio" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Hj
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tantek Vadio is the host of the venue for IndieWeb Summit [[2016]].
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loqi.me created /Vadio (+87) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-07/line/1460070172164 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk well it's not pretty, but new note interface for Quill is live
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tantek congrats!
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aaronpk and I successfully POSSEd kitten butt to Twitter with it, photo rotation was correct on both copies
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idolstarastronomer.com edited /web_hosting (+120) "/* Google Drive */ is shutting down web service in August 2016" (view diff)
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tantek whoa wat
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk announced last august apparently http://googleappsupdates.blogspot.com/2015/08/deprecating-web-hosting-support-in.html
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tantek hey GWG, perhaps reach out to this NYT Designer to see if he would be interested in an IndieWebCamp NYC in August? https://twitter.com/tealtan/status/718119564136091648
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@tealtan @anildash @kissane I mean I quite like the indiewebcamp approach to that: [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/718119564136091648)
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